Therapy can help unpack it so you can understand it (this does not necessarily mean forgiving it) and deal with it so you can reinforce your foundation. It's helping my sister out immensely.
I care about the harm I've done because I'm so fucked up due to my past. People expect you to get over it or work through it or whatever. Sometimes there's nothing that can be done. Sometimes life does nothing but kick you in the teeth however you might try. Problem is it's hard to see a different perspective.
Blaming others is very convenient and excuses your life problems as not your fault at all. So why even try? Other people have damaged you. It absolves you from the responsibility or making an effort and abdicates responsibility. You have to get over your background, and not everyone can or does. Birds, bear cubs, humans. Go forth and engage your reality. You might lose out, but don't jump from the 37th floor!! You made it that far!
I know my parents did the best they could with what they had, but i'm 69 this week and when/if dad ever kicks the bucket i'm going to take a crowbar to the cemetery and leave it at his headstone because when i was a little kid he'd tell me to go brush my crowbars and that has never left me. I needed braces, and eventually I got them. But you don't tell your daughter that.
My parents do. Fun time of "I know we fucked up but when you turned 18 it was all *your* choice to keep doing those things" , completly ignoring the fact that they openly ignored my asking for help for years. They just fully expected me to just magicly be a fully functioning adult despite all of that.
Hit them back with: the holocaust was a long time ago, should we stop being upset about it? If we dont learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it. And sometimes that lesson is, keep being upset about that sort of thing.
True. But if its truly bad and as a reasoning adult, you'd know you need to fix the foundation or move to another building... you wouldnt just keep sitting around complaining about it...
I think the wording here could have been better chosen maybe, lol, but I do agree with you on the point that we have the ability to take action and correct those things as adults, and some people choose to just be unhappy forever instead.
"sitting around complaining about it" is very different than *acknowledging* the disparities as having long-lasting consequences.
we can and should aim to heal and to do better, but the very foundation of existing within the USA (experienced as stable for the privileged) has deprived many, namely indigenous folx, of that foundation - it's beyond repair so long as the genocide and other systemic harms are ongoing
a pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality doesn't serve anyone
see, this is a complicated one, because the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thing is super dismissive, but a call to action lands on the same road. And it's up to the individual to decide that they're going to DO something about how they're feeling, vs just acknowledging the hurt as some super valid, unchanging circumstance of their life.
peggy sue gets married! For real though, you obv can't do this ^ but as an adult, you can be the parent to your inner child that you needed, and you can heal damage.
I know my parents didn't have the best childhoods growing up. That doesn't make the screaming and slapping hurt less, it just puts it slightly into context.
When someone brings up things like that I mention “that’s what they did to me and I decided I don’t want to be that person. I didn’t pass it on to the next vulnerable human who can’t fight back. Continuing the pattern is a choice. I think how I felt and don’t want anyone to ever feel the way I did. It happening to me isn’t a reason for it to happen to the next person.”
Even if I never fully recover, I will leave this world knowing I didn’t pass that on to the next generation. I’ve healed a lot and am good with how far I’ve come. My life could have been very different and a lot better if I started with a better foundation but I don’t dwell on that. I’ve made the repairs I can and keep working when I find cracks I didn’t notice before and make the most of the building I got. 😅
Last I checked 20 or so years ago, it did tend to go one way or another - either the abused kids vow to be different, or they continue the pattern, rarely anything between. Dunno if later research shows different now.
I don't really get it, but i also had a safe childhood. Is it that they don't trust themself at all to be stable due to this? With the foundation talk i mean.
Well you see, your foundation is plumb and your floors square with it.
I was trained to be an obedient child rather than a functional adult. At my very foundation, I am motivated to please others and avoid conflict, very often to my detriment. Years of therapy, healing, and course correction have not changed this. Instead, I've learned new processes to step back and analyze the situation and my emotions before acting on them.
That crooked foundation is still there, I'm just building each floor with an offset to compensate and hopefully keep this janky fucking tower of a person standing.
Some direct effects of that -I do not trust any authority -I never ask for help and am loathe to accept it since in my mind any help is creating a debt to be used against me or will intentionally sabotage what I do -I believe any level of disagreement/dissatisfaction is likely to end in violence or abandonment -I had to invent what it meant to be a parent and stable partner -I am terrified that I will hurt my children/spouse when my emotions get high,so I leave
Another: Nadine Burke Harris has a TED Talk on "How childhood trauma affects health across a lifetime" and presents a tool called ACES that also does well to emphasize the long term effects of trauma
It's a metaphor. It's not specifically about the stability, but more to do with later results being impacted by a flawed start. Imagine you were reading a book, but the first few chapters were incorrect. No matter how good the rest of the book is, it's never going to be quite the way it was supposed to be, or make as much sense.
Yeah but it's not a *great* metaphor by any means. Going higher up in a building with a bad foundation is just getting more dangerous, but getting time/distance away from trauma is a key component to healing from it.
I think a better metaphor would be you've escaped a skyscraper with a bad foundation, but do you feel safe because you've walked 37 steps away from the door?
But time and distance doesn't directly heal it. It leaves cracks in the foundation. And if the trauma is never addressed, those cracks can cause the entire thing to come down. All it needs is pressure in the wrong spot. Not saying it's a good metaphor but it does point out that who you are today is a result of what you went through. My foundation was bad but now I've addressed a lot of the issues so while it's not pretty, I feel much safer with it.
unstable households do the literal exact same thing to your nerve system as being in an active war zone. imagine the same issues as you'd treat a vet for pstd except the loud noises are people arguing not bombs dropping
As you grow up it becomes apparent your gifted your father is not and your mother is submissive. Father feels threattened by his child & procedes to belittle them, as you get older this evolves into beraiting and verbal abuse. Every tiny mistake is a reason to tell you your the dumbest piece of shit to walk the earth & mom tells you to be better to not make him so angry. As 18 aproaches they run your life and when you ineviteably fail in their eyes the emotional & verbal abuse only ratchets up
Woof. Feel that. AuDHD+”gifted” but not diagnosed till well into adulthood. Both parents likely the same but in very different ways (one hyper empathetic and fixated on “everyone getting along” at all costs; the other a mentally, emotionally, and rarely physically abusive entitled ass w/ narcissistic tendencies).
Had so many common interests etc with the ass. Took until adulthood to understand being rejected for being “competition”. The harder I worked and more I achieved the worse it got.
Go into the world you cant have constructive expreances with anyone. Everything need to be either perfect or so benall and bland as to not be noticed. You break down over criticism. Seeking help feels like failure. It takes years to deprogram
In relationships I overthink things I say and do still. I will start apologizing because I feel something I said or did was manipulative or controlling and realize it wasn’t. I don’t speak to my parents anymore. My stepmom will still tell you to this day not to trust me because she projects who she is onto me. It only recently dawned on me she was threatened by how smart I am and how easy I adapt to life. I must be pulling a con anytime things go well for me. Couldn’t be that I treat people well
Ever borrowed something from your parents? Get a little loan maybe? Do they ever help you with watching your kids for free or giving you a place to stay while you were figuring things out? Any gifts at all? Have there been times you really need to talk things out with someone and they were there for you? It's probably a lot more than you realize and it adds up to something greater than the sum of its parts. Try to imagine where you'd be if you subtracted all of those things from your life.
Imagine your dad being a drunk and your mom hating you because . Your parents fight (with words) every single day of your life. When you're very young you become aware of the shouting. You try to tiptoe around it. You try to do good so your parents dont shout to eachother. You, as a young kid, form yourself completely around the situation at home. Then at 18 you move out. Then you try to build a life. Thats the 'foundation'. You have no clue what a normal family looks like. 1/2
You might find a nice boy/girl, get together, make a family together. But I guarantee you you'll be talking about your youth for decades. It takes decades to 'shake that 'foundation'. If your boy/girlfriend gets home (happens once per year) drunk you immediately have flashbacks to dad. You dont know how to argue in marriage because you have been trained to avoid ANY arguements (but small arguements are normal in marriage). Etc etc. 2/2
It's just 1 example. Could also be dad is disabled and needs 24/7 help. Could be your sister is 10 years older and on drugs from when you were 4. That wrecks a family. And what you 'learn' between ages 2 and 18 is very difficult to unlearn, because that is your start, you base in life.
Very well put. Especially this avoidance part. You are just so used to shut the fuck up and take it. The real problem usually happens when that reaches the »enough is enough« stage. And then shit may hit the fan. It takes some work to get to the part were you stop the issue earlier and even when it reaches a certain level, do not explode. Same goes for trust issues. If your whole youth everyone was fucking with you, pissing on you as a person, you won't shake the mistrust of humanity as a whole.
Oh and.. when you're young it;s easy to learn, but when you're older and have to un-learn all the trauma's and re-learn what a normal family is supposed to be, thats extremely hard.
First you have to actually get that there's work to be done by you (yes, you, not the others, many do not even reach that conclusion) and then learn *how* to work on that (because that's not exactly a tool set coming naturally to everyone). And then the actual work can start, doing all that unlearning and re-learning needed. Which will a lot of take time. And even then, it's never really over. You are still prone to falling into old patterns, be that emotional or behavioral.
It’s a very long process. Learning that it’s okay to be out all night having fun with my friends took SO long to not come home feeling guilty. Narcissist stepmother always found a reason to punish me if I had too much fun as a kid. I’m in my 40’s and okay now. I recognized in my early 20’s that all of it is just healing I had to do. When I see it in friends I do my best to help them see and help them heal. The not recognizing how a healthy relationship should be was my first hurdle.
People in the United States can type their postal code into psychology dot com and see a list of mental health practitioners. Awak boleh filter by insurance, gender, specializations, modality, etc. but for matters like these I recommend finding someone trained in C-PTSD (C for complex)
Still fair to not appreciate the low standard of "their best". I am not close to my mother because she needs to be clapped for, but won't clap for anyone else. She let her wanting her dream for her children ruin the relationship with the ones she has. At best it's talk about the weather while dodging criticism.
I for many years tried to give my parents credit in the same way, because I understand a lot of hardships of adulting and budgeting. But then upon further reflection and further observation over time, I realized that I was never a person or individual to them. one cared only about his own feelings and the idea of a further representation of himself, and the other wanted validation for herself for doing things she was always told were wrong (3 kids, 3 fathers). thats a provider not a parent.
I feel the exact same, except my dad up to the day he died kept pitting all his kids against one another endlessly. There was a time I felt he did the best he could until I saw how much he reveled in our family fights and divisions but blamed us for it all.
The next level understanding: they can do their best and still have cause harm, been imperfect. You can have non-abusing parents with the best intentions who try their best, and their actions still lead you to having deep psychological issues. It's not about whose fault it is.
I talk shit on boomers for being bad parents, but they were the first generation to actually like their kids. All parents love their kids (that parental neuro-chemical cocktail), but the boomer's parents didn't like them. They treated them like roommates that they could beat the shit out of. My parents actually liked me. Didn't respect me (not the way I respect my kid, consent for touching and whatnot), but bought me toys and valued my happiness. Like a favorite pet. Still, better than they got.
My parents grew up in the midst of the Great Depression in literal litters of children - like nine in one family and eight in the other. Their models of what roles parents should play in children's lives were their own overworked and stressed out moms and dads who had no time for one-on-one parenting. Both of my parents stressed learning skills to take care of yourself over providing emotional support. In their minds, only the tough and hard working would survive. They succeeded in doing that.
There’s a difference between parents struggling and doing their best and shitty, abusive parents. This isn’t about parents that love and care but struggled to make ends meet. My parents provided for me but my dad still kicked me across the room because I embarrassed him in front of his friends saying something I didn’t know I should have said. HUGE difference. Learning to not worry what people think about what I have to say is healing from that.
I've done my best as a parent...mostly done well, I think. But those times that I failed, they stay with me. Being stupid, too angry, yelling. Ive been a good parent. Except those times I wasn't and those times will keep gnawing at me. And it's my own bloody fault. I've apologized to my kids. They have forgiven me for my wrongdoings. Maybe, some day, I will too.
My parents weren't the best, and i used to think they did the best that they could, but as an adult I realized I grew up less than an hour drive from my dad and met him a few times when I was 8, and not again until i was about 23, and my mom was a narcissist who only valued people based on how much they expressed their dependence on her. Sometimes parents just suck.
I don't know about your parents, but I know narcissists.. Perhaps your dad was not allowed to visit you, because your mother was one? And when that happened too many times, he just gave up? I am kinda trying to say, he might not be a bad person.
That was my original thought growing up, because i met him when i was 8 and he disappeared again a few months later. But I met him as an adult, he was around for a few months, and then bailed again. The next time I heard from him was my cousin calling me 6 years later to ask me to come to his funeral. Repeated the exact same behavior without my mom involved suggests that it was him, not her.
It could have been as well that he did not know how to bond with you being forced away for so long that he could have felt that not being around you might have been for your own well being. Of course, I dont know him and this is just a guess from a rando on the internet.
I promise, people do not need to come to his defense and explain to me, an adult in my mid 40s, why an adult man could not find it in him to return a phone call. (not attacking you, just tired of people trying to comfort me without any basis for doing so.) I've been told I should forgive him, and my response is, "I forgave him every time he asked. Not my fault he quit asking."
Mine made mistakes, but the one prevailing thing I know for absolute certain is that both of them loved me dearly and would do anything for me. I miss them so damned much sometimes. Any trauma they have caused me in their ignorance as they raised me, has been forgiven because I know they never intended any such thing. But i also know I'm very lucky, I had a very good relationship with them.
I just arrived from the opposite end at 36. I know my parents did the best they could based on what they understood, and they obviously care. That being said, those aspects alone aren’t enough to support a healthy relationship.
I stopped talking to them a few months ago and I’m now healing from problems I couldn’t identify before, or put into actionable steps. The difference is astounding to me.
I wonder about my parents from time to time, but I don’t feel guilt or shame on any level that affects my health. For me, I realized I was carrying that the whole time, and it was never mine to be responsible for.
Yes - systemic abuses against various racial groups, genocide, executions, red lining, denial of benefits, lack of access to healthcare (including mental healthcare, treatment, and rehab), high poverty rates on reservations and in black communities, wage theft of POC, etc.
What's even more fun is when you have kids then they act like their parenting was perfect and yours needs work. "Why would I listen to you? You are clearly disappointed with the kids you raised." (Mom didn't like that response)
And when it’s a mixed bag or a person can’t be sure it’s even worse.
For folks that struggle to understand imagine trying to grow up with 1 parent that is actively sexist against your gender (and not subtle about it but hides behind pretense etc). That parent encourages a sibling to be both physically and mentally abusive to you.
The other parent is generally sympathetic and supportive but doesn’t really see what the other parent or sibling are doing as wrong or able to be resolved.
One parent is doing “the best they can” (which isn’t great). The other was effectively victimized growing up as well but has turned it into becoming an abuser worse than anyone that abused them and sees being abusive as a privilege of being “better”.
The community generally supports and encourages the abuser.
How do you come to terms with all that especially as the parents become more polarized over the years (good gets better bad gets worse).
Yep. 1st sibling steals the car underage whenever they want to go out with no real consequence (grounded but they snuck out of that too). 2nd sibling gets in no trouble but has to walk miles daily in mid-teens to get to uni classes in high school (no support bc “they need to toughen up/don’t need any help”). 3rd sibling everything gets dropped to give them rides wherever, whenever (they never get in trouble bc they are allowed and supported to whatever they want).
aceoftricks
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AoZ017bLSmc
This is the clip
EMHPicardo
DwayneTheCrackJohnson
"Is there a balcony I could easily jump from?"
Fargus57
TheInternetNeedsMoreCats
Therapy can help unpack it so you can understand it (this does not necessarily mean forgiving it) and deal with it so you can reinforce your foundation. It's helping my sister out immensely.
Etereo
At some point you have to stop surviving and start living
lostinthoughtinathoughlessworld
I'm in my 70s and still have nightmares from my childhood. Some things are permanent no matter how many years of counseling you achieve.
ThinkThisOut
Well that’s a stupid thing to say…. But if it’s stupid and it works then… well it’s still stupid but hopefully it made a few people better
Becker37
I care about the harm I've done because I'm so fucked up due to my past. People expect you to get over it or work through it or whatever. Sometimes there's nothing that can be done. Sometimes life does nothing but kick you in the teeth however you might try. Problem is it's hard to see a different perspective.
IAmNotNSAsodonotbeparanoid
I still can't look at jumper cables
Chicagorooftop
Blaming others is very convenient and excuses your life problems as not your fault at all. So why even try? Other people have damaged you. It absolves you from the responsibility or making an effort and abdicates responsibility. You have to get over your background, and not everyone can or does. Birds, bear cubs, humans. Go forth and engage your reality. You might lose out, but don't jump from the 37th floor!! You made it that far!
choppedliveraldente
Hello you can damage a person permanently while they're a child hello hello
kimwimgoddess
I know my parents did the best they could with what they had, but i'm 69 this week and when/if dad ever kicks the bucket i'm going to take a crowbar to the cemetery and leave it at his headstone because when i was a little kid he'd tell me to go brush my crowbars and that has never left me. I needed braces, and eventually I got them. But you don't tell your daughter that.
rossonerinho
at 37 years old I'd hope that I was smart enough to get out of the fucking building.
PennsylvaniaPalindrome
So, kill yrself?
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VoidForScreaming
SCAM. Do not click and report.
Yoshimaster
Bot stole aceoftricks' comment and replaced with a bot/scam link. Downvote and report this one. Upvote aceoftricks.
Shovi
Who the fuck says you shouldn't be upset about something if it happened a long time ago? THOSE people don't seem right in the head, to me...
AFallenDragon
My parents do. Fun time of "I know we fucked up but when you turned 18 it was all *your* choice to keep doing those things" , completly ignoring the fact that they openly ignored my asking for help for years. They just fully expected me to just magicly be a fully functioning adult despite all of that.
LookingLikeASnack
Usually the people who did something upsetting a long time ago.
Often it wasn't even that long ago, and equally as often they're still doing it.
BeeDeeEssEmm247
far too many hold that perspective: get over it, the past is the past, move on
Shovi
Hit them back with: the holocaust was a long time ago, should we stop being upset about it? If we dont learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it. And sometimes that lesson is, keep being upset about that sort of thing.
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DdCno1
There are unfortunately people who are saying exactly that. It's the mark of idiocy and often also malice.
arthurwolf
True. But if its truly bad and as a reasoning adult, you'd know you need to fix the foundation or move to another building... you wouldnt just keep sitting around complaining about it...
ethicalinfant
I think the wording here could have been better chosen maybe, lol, but I do agree with you on the point that we have the ability to take action and correct those things as adults, and some people choose to just be unhappy forever instead.
BeeDeeEssEmm247
"sitting around complaining about it" is very different than *acknowledging* the disparities as having long-lasting consequences.
we can and should aim to heal and to do better, but the very foundation of existing within the USA (experienced as stable for the privileged) has deprived many, namely indigenous folx, of that foundation - it's beyond repair so long as the genocide and other systemic harms are ongoing
a pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality doesn't serve anyone
ethicalinfant
see, this is a complicated one, because the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thing is super dismissive, but a call to action lands on the same road. And it's up to the individual to decide that they're going to DO something about how they're feeling, vs just acknowledging the hurt as some super valid, unchanging circumstance of their life.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo
some parents refuse to address the foundation, so you leave them and the building behind
bekkayya
yeah hold on Ill just have another childhood real quick just stay put brb
ethicalinfant
peggy sue gets married! For real though, you obv can't do this ^ but as an adult, you can be the parent to your inner child that you needed, and you can heal damage.
Hatlled
My parents helped ruin my life. I was the bastard they didn't want.
ImurevJourhein
I know my parents didn't have the best childhoods growing up. That doesn't make the screaming and slapping hurt less, it just puts it slightly into context.
PubMed12927120suckssobad
Try telling your parents that. It will not end well. Probably get you slapped
korndogg83
Terran81
When someone brings up things like that I mention “that’s what they did to me and I decided I don’t want to be that person. I didn’t pass it on to the next vulnerable human who can’t fight back. Continuing the pattern is a choice. I think how I felt and don’t want anyone to ever feel the way I did. It happening to me isn’t a reason for it to happen to the next person.”
BeeDeeEssEmm247
Yes, we can and should actively participate in dismantling harmful patterns to not perpetuate harms onto others. Good on you for doing so!
Yet, doing so doesn't guarantee a stable foundation for yourself, and that 37th floor, even the 80th floor, can feel unsafe
Terran81
Even if I never fully recover, I will leave this world knowing I didn’t pass that on to the next generation. I’ve healed a lot and am good with how far I’ve come. My life could have been very different and a lot better if I started with a better foundation but I don’t dwell on that. I’ve made the repairs I can and keep working when I find cracks I didn’t notice before and make the most of the building I got. 😅
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Unfortunately there seem to be a LOT of people who go the other way, punishing everyone else because they were constantly punished.
crazyspelling
Last I checked 20 or so years ago, it did tend to go one way or another - either the abused kids vow to be different, or they continue the pattern, rarely anything between. Dunno if later research shows different now.
Mohareb
I don't really get it, but i also had a safe childhood. Is it that they don't trust themself at all to be stable due to this? With the foundation talk i mean.
Choiced
Well you see, your foundation is plumb and your floors square with it.
I was trained to be an obedient child rather than a functional adult. At my very foundation, I am motivated to please others and avoid conflict, very often to my detriment. Years of therapy, healing, and course correction have not changed this. Instead, I've learned new processes to step back and analyze the situation and my emotions before acting on them.
(1/2)
Choiced
That crooked foundation is still there, I'm just building each floor with an offset to compensate and hopefully keep this janky fucking tower of a person standing.
(2/2)
arikelrecords2000
My parents abused me as a child
Some direct effects of that
-I do not trust any authority
-I never ask for help and am loathe to accept it since in my mind any help is creating a debt to be used against me or will intentionally sabotage what I do
-I believe any level of disagreement/dissatisfaction is likely to end in violence or abandonment
-I had to invent what it meant to be a parent and stable partner
-I am terrified that I will hurt my children/spouse when my emotions get high,so I leave
VelocityofCuriosity
I recommend looking into, Complex-PTSD for a greater understanding of long term effects of abuse and trauma.
kimwimgoddess
o/
Me!
BeeDeeEssEmm247
Another: Nadine Burke Harris has a TED Talk on "How childhood trauma affects health across a lifetime" and presents a tool called ACES that also does well to emphasize the long term effects of trauma
SonOfScubaSam
It's a metaphor. It's not specifically about the stability, but more to do with later results being impacted by a flawed start. Imagine you were reading a book, but the first few chapters were incorrect. No matter how good the rest of the book is, it's never going to be quite the way it was supposed to be, or make as much sense.
Badprenup
Yeah but it's not a *great* metaphor by any means. Going higher up in a building with a bad foundation is just getting more dangerous, but getting time/distance away from trauma is a key component to healing from it.
I think a better metaphor would be you've escaped a skyscraper with a bad foundation, but do you feel safe because you've walked 37 steps away from the door?
NotQuiteWittyEnoughForImgur
But time and distance doesn't directly heal it. It leaves cracks in the foundation. And if the trauma is never addressed, those cracks can cause the entire thing to come down. All it needs is pressure in the wrong spot. Not saying it's a good metaphor but it does point out that who you are today is a result of what you went through. My foundation was bad but now I've addressed a lot of the issues so while it's not pretty, I feel much safer with it.
bekkayya
unstable households do the literal exact same thing to your nerve system as being in an active war zone. imagine the same issues as you'd treat a vet for pstd except the loud noises are people arguing not bombs dropping
KilroyLichking
As you grow up it becomes apparent your gifted your father is not and your mother is submissive. Father feels threattened by his child & procedes to belittle them, as you get older this evolves into beraiting and verbal abuse. Every tiny mistake is a reason to tell you your the dumbest piece of shit to walk the earth & mom tells you to be better to not make him so angry. As 18 aproaches they run your life and when you ineviteably fail in their eyes the emotional & verbal abuse only ratchets up
frozenlake247
Woof. Feel that. AuDHD+”gifted” but not diagnosed till well into adulthood. Both parents likely the same but in very different ways (one hyper empathetic and fixated on “everyone getting along” at all costs; the other a mentally, emotionally, and rarely physically abusive entitled ass w/ narcissistic tendencies).
Had so many common interests etc with the ass. Took until adulthood to understand being rejected for being “competition”. The harder I worked and more I achieved the worse it got.
KilroyLichking
Go into the world you cant have constructive expreances with anyone. Everything need to be either perfect or so benall and bland as to not be noticed. You break down over criticism. Seeking help feels like failure. It takes years to deprogram
GeorgeCostabaplaps
Still working on that. Day by day, hour by hour. Be well.
polarbearbaby
Me too, 4 decades later. Therapy helps, but it never leaves.
Terran81
In relationships I overthink things I say and do still. I will start apologizing because I feel something I said or did was manipulative or controlling and realize it wasn’t. I don’t speak to my parents anymore. My stepmom will still tell you to this day not to trust me because she projects who she is onto me. It only recently dawned on me she was threatened by how smart I am and how easy I adapt to life. I must be pulling a con anytime things go well for me. Couldn’t be that I treat people well
InconspicuousLampshade
Ever borrowed something from your parents? Get a little loan maybe? Do they ever help you with watching your kids for free or giving you a place to stay while you were figuring things out? Any gifts at all? Have there been times you really need to talk things out with someone and they were there for you? It's probably a lot more than you realize and it adds up to something greater than the sum of its parts. Try to imagine where you'd be if you subtracted all of those things from your life.
GrandmasterSpank
Imagine your dad being a drunk and your mom hating you because . Your parents fight (with words) every single day of your life. When you're very young you become aware of the shouting. You try to tiptoe around it. You try to do good so your parents dont shout to eachother. You, as a young kid, form yourself completely around the situation at home. Then at 18 you move out. Then you try to build a life. Thats the 'foundation'. You have no clue what a normal family looks like. 1/2
GrandmasterSpank
You might find a nice boy/girl, get together, make a family together. But I guarantee you you'll be talking about your youth for decades. It takes decades to 'shake that 'foundation'. If your boy/girlfriend gets home (happens once per year) drunk you immediately have flashbacks to dad. You dont know how to argue in marriage because you have been trained to avoid ANY arguements (but small arguements are normal in marriage). Etc etc. 2/2
Mohareb
Thanks for the explanation
GrandmasterSpank
It's just 1 example. Could also be dad is disabled and needs 24/7 help. Could be your sister is 10 years older and on drugs from when you were 4. That wrecks a family. And what you 'learn' between ages 2 and 18 is very difficult to unlearn, because that is your start, you base in life.
BeeDeeEssEmm247
And then there's the likelihood of staying in unsafe, unstable, violent situations because "it's not as bad as what I experienced as a kid..."
alt86er
Very well put. Especially this avoidance part. You are just so used to shut the fuck up and take it. The real problem usually happens when that reaches the »enough is enough« stage. And then shit may hit the fan. It takes some work to get to the part were you stop the issue earlier and even when it reaches a certain level, do not explode. Same goes for trust issues. If your whole youth everyone was fucking with you, pissing on you as a person, you won't shake the mistrust of humanity as a whole.
priorititties
Fuck. Those last two sentences are still an open wound..
GrandmasterSpank
Oh and.. when you're young it;s easy to learn, but when you're older and have to un-learn all the trauma's and re-learn what a normal family is supposed to be, thats extremely hard.
MadamPuddifoot
(don't make words plural with 's) (sorry)
GrandmasterSpank
Its fine as long as people understand me.
alt86er
First you have to actually get that there's work to be done by you (yes, you, not the others, many do not even reach that conclusion) and then learn *how* to work on that (because that's not exactly a tool set coming naturally to everyone). And then the actual work can start, doing all that unlearning and re-learning needed. Which will a lot of take time. And even then, it's never really over. You are still prone to falling into old patterns, be that emotional or behavioral.
Terran81
It’s a very long process. Learning that it’s okay to be out all night having fun with my friends took SO long to not come home feeling guilty. Narcissist stepmother always found a reason to punish me if I had too much fun as a kid. I’m in my 40’s and okay now. I recognized in my early 20’s that all of it is just healing I had to do. When I see it in friends I do my best to help them see and help them heal. The not recognizing how a healthy relationship should be was my first hurdle.
slopwizard
I am fine but uh do you happen to know where my friend can learn how to work on?
BeeDeeEssEmm247
People in the United States can type their postal code into psychology dot com and see a list of mental health practitioners. Awak boleh filter by insurance, gender, specializations, modality, etc. but for matters like these I recommend finding someone trained in C-PTSD (C for complex)
Otomasoteraph
My parents weren't the best but I know they did the best they could. I understood that after many, many years.
bekkayya
Doing the best you can isnt an excuse when the responsibility was optional.
SarcasticComment
Still fair to not appreciate the low standard of "their best". I am not close to my mother because she needs to be clapped for, but won't clap for anyone else. She let her wanting her dream for her children ruin the relationship with the ones she has. At best it's talk about the weather while dodging criticism.
Renza0
I for many years tried to give my parents credit in the same way, because I understand a lot of hardships of adulting and budgeting. But then upon further reflection and further observation over time, I realized that I was never a person or individual to them. one cared only about his own feelings and the idea of a further representation of himself, and the other wanted validation for herself for doing things she was always told were wrong (3 kids, 3 fathers). thats a provider not a parent.
ObeySparky
I feel the exact same, except my dad up to the day he died kept pitting all his kids against one another endlessly. There was a time I felt he did the best he could until I saw how much he reveled in our family fights and divisions but blamed us for it all.
mabbo
The next level understanding: they can do their best and still have cause harm, been imperfect. You can have non-abusing parents with the best intentions who try their best, and their actions still lead you to having deep psychological issues. It's not about whose fault it is.
igetit41
I talk shit on boomers for being bad parents, but they were the first generation to actually like their kids. All parents love their kids (that parental neuro-chemical cocktail), but the boomer's parents didn't like them. They treated them like roommates that they could beat the shit out of. My parents actually liked me. Didn't respect me (not the way I respect my kid, consent for touching and whatnot), but bought me toys and valued my happiness. Like a favorite pet. Still, better than they got.
GwensBackOnHerBS
My dad was evil.
My mom meant well but she's so terminally stupid she married the same evil abusive fuck twice.
I had a very bad time as a child.
sowhat4
My parents grew up in the midst of the Great Depression in literal litters of children - like nine in one family and eight in the other. Their models of what roles parents should play in children's lives were their own overworked and stressed out moms and dads who had no time for one-on-one parenting. Both of my parents stressed learning skills to take care of yourself over providing emotional support. In their minds, only the tough and hard working would survive. They succeeded in doing that.
mcoulter876
Everyone has a limit. You can't expect them to go past that.
VelocityofCuriosity
You’re lucky their best wasn’t abusive or traumatic.
Terran81
There’s a difference between parents struggling and doing their best and shitty, abusive parents. This isn’t about parents that love and care but struggled to make ends meet. My parents provided for me but my dad still kicked me across the room because I embarrassed him in front of his friends saying something I didn’t know I should have said. HUGE difference. Learning to not worry what people think about what I have to say is healing from that.
iseeyoyos
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/invisible-bruises/202504/the-myth-that-abusive-parents-were-doing-the-best-they-could
jekath
I've done my best as a parent...mostly done well, I think. But those times that I failed, they stay with me. Being stupid, too angry, yelling. Ive been a good parent. Except those times I wasn't and those times will keep gnawing at me. And it's my own bloody fault. I've apologized to my kids. They have forgiven me for my wrongdoings. Maybe, some day, I will too.
NZSheeps
My parents were fine. I fucked myself up, thank you very much!
Freak0zoid
Yeah!. You grab those bootstraps and yank yourself down.
CobainsSarcoma
my parents tried their best but sometimes their best wasn't good enough
oh, was that insulting?
bigheadface
My parents didn't do the best they could. I'm pretty sure this comedian's bit is not about parents who were actually trying
Draygen
My parents weren't the best, and i used to think they did the best that they could, but as an adult I realized I grew up less than an hour drive from my dad and met him a few times when I was 8, and not again until i was about 23, and my mom was a narcissist who only valued people based on how much they expressed their dependence on her. Sometimes parents just suck.
Terran81
This
hsalonen3000
I don't know about your parents, but I know narcissists.. Perhaps your dad was not allowed to visit you, because your mother was one? And when that happened too many times, he just gave up? I am kinda trying to say, he might not be a bad person.
Draygen
That was my original thought growing up, because i met him when i was 8 and he disappeared again a few months later. But I met him as an adult, he was around for a few months, and then bailed again. The next time I heard from him was my cousin calling me 6 years later to ask me to come to his funeral. Repeated the exact same behavior without my mom involved suggests that it was him, not her.
pandemicmodedad
It could have been as well that he did not know how to bond with you being forced away for so long that he could have felt that not being around you might have been for your own well being. Of course, I dont know him and this is just a guess from a rando on the internet.
Draygen
I promise, people do not need to come to his defense and explain to me, an adult in my mid 40s, why an adult man could not find it in him to return a phone call. (not attacking you, just tired of people trying to comfort me without any basis for doing so.) I've been told I should forgive him, and my response is, "I forgave him every time he asked. Not my fault he quit asking."
sirbartonslady
Mine made mistakes, but the one prevailing thing I know for absolute certain is that both of them loved me dearly and would do anything for me. I miss them so damned much sometimes. Any trauma they have caused me in their ignorance as they raised me, has been forgiven because I know they never intended any such thing. But i also know I'm very lucky, I had a very good relationship with them.
ostensiblystupid
I just arrived from the opposite end at 36. I know my parents did the best they could based on what they understood, and they obviously care. That being said, those aspects alone aren’t enough to support a healthy relationship.
I stopped talking to them a few months ago and I’m now healing from problems I couldn’t identify before, or put into actionable steps. The difference is astounding to me.
Maisousontlesneigesdantan
I’m in the exact same situation. I’m happier than ever and don’t miss them. But I have guilt and shame about it.
ostensiblystupid
I wonder about my parents from time to time, but I don’t feel guilt or shame on any level that affects my health. For me, I realized I was carrying that the whole time, and it was never mine to be responsible for.
FckleberryFarms
It takes a while, and some people never get there.
BeeDeeEssEmm247
And many arent able to get there because their parents DID NOT do the best they could
OldNternetWizard43
Many people can't get there even if their parents did the best they could because the system just screws some families harder
BeeDeeEssEmm247
Yes - systemic abuses against various racial groups, genocide, executions, red lining, denial of benefits, lack of access to healthcare (including mental healthcare, treatment, and rehab), high poverty rates on reservations and in black communities, wage theft of POC, etc.
SarcasticComment
What's even more fun is when you have kids then they act like their parenting was perfect and yours needs work. "Why would I listen to you? You are clearly disappointed with the kids you raised." (Mom didn't like that response)
frozenlake247
And when it’s a mixed bag or a person can’t be sure it’s even worse.
For folks that struggle to understand imagine trying to grow up with 1 parent that is actively sexist against your gender (and not subtle about it but hides behind pretense etc). That parent encourages a sibling to be both physically and mentally abusive to you.
The other parent is generally sympathetic and supportive but doesn’t really see what the other parent or sibling are doing as wrong or able to be resolved.
frozenlake247
One parent is doing “the best they can” (which isn’t great). The other was effectively victimized growing up as well but has turned it into becoming an abuser worse than anyone that abused them and sees being abusive as a privilege of being “better”.
The community generally supports and encourages the abuser.
How do you come to terms with all that especially as the parents become more polarized over the years (good gets better bad gets worse).
Now add in generations of ADHD/ASD/etc….
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PagetheFound
Just because you were raised together, doesn't mean you where raised the same.
frozenlake247
Yep. 1st sibling steals the car underage whenever they want to go out with no real consequence (grounded but they snuck out of that too). 2nd sibling gets in no trouble but has to walk miles daily in mid-teens to get to uni classes in high school (no support bc “they need to toughen up/don’t need any help”). 3rd sibling everything gets dropped to give them rides wherever, whenever (they never get in trouble bc they are allowed and supported to whatever they want).
BeeDeeEssEmm247
Yes, having the same parents and being raised in the same environment doesn't mean having the same experience with our parents