I have noticed that you misspelled my name. This raises questions in my mind as to your basic competence as a Human Resources team. When you can spell my name correctly the first time without being corrected, I will agree to a technical interview.
Someone posted this meme a few weeks back and there was some discussion about how big of an effect of a referral/recommendation by someone already employed by the company has and why employers tend to put a lot of trust in that, because referring a poor candidate can reflect badly on the referrer. Assuming this is legit, it's a very good example on how a bad referral can put your judgement into question in the eyes of your employer.
Years ago my brother recommended our cousins step daughter for a entry level position where he worked and it was a complete shit show. She was lazy, rude to her coworkers, and thought the fact that her uncle was a manager gave her special privileges. It not only damaged his relationship with his staff and reputation within the company, it also damage his relationship with our cousin and his family because they though he should have stepped in to stop her getting fired.
Years ago, my nephew’s wife got a basic office job at my employer, a couple of years after having a warehouse job at my employer. She was unmedicated bipolar and did not use me as a reference or tell me she was applying, but name dropped me after she started. She did not fit in well and it caused problems for me. Super annoying when I didn’t refer her and we’d already employed her before so there should have been some record that she was a walking shitshow. (She is now medicated and employable.)
Yeah, they prolly looked back, and this puzzle piece clicked with other stuff, and they realized they'd been giving this idiot the benefit of the doubt, which has been removed
This is the hiring committee getting revenge for wasting their time. But it's also a good way to convince your team to stop giving you access to their talent network. Word of this gets out, it shuts down the most effective hiring pipeline a company has. Some of my best hires start with me asking my best people "I wish I had two of you. Know anybody?"
I've never referred a friend for a job explicitly. I did suggest a friend try to pick up a job at the place I had just been hired, and we acted surprised to 'discover' we both applied at the same place, and the boss was always skeptical, but fuck him, it was only a summer job.
One of my coworkers referred a friend of his for an open driving position we have had for a while. Guy ate a gummy a few days before his interview, and now has to wait a month or two for it to be out of his system so he can interview again, and this time pass the mandatory piss test.
I was in such a weird position once because I was asked to refer someone I didn't know for a job in an organization I had nothing to do with, only because of who my dad was. A coworker's mom wanted me to refer her other kid to my dad for a custodial job at a local school, since my dad was head custodian of the school system. This 'other kid' screwed me over once by refusing to get out of bed to take their mom to the hospital, forcing my coworker to call off so I had to close by myself.
There's no law forbidding employers from discriminating against those they believe to be morons, even when that belief is based on fairly flimsy evidence.
Seriously. Too many people don't realize that you become their professional reference. Not all, but some will ask the reference particular questions to gauge their qualifications as a reliable source of the candidates skillset.
I just got my friend a job as my IT support. He is already knows more about IT than my current support team. He starts next week and I cant wait. In all fairness, he really wants / deserves this job.
Don't refer anyone for a job. Let them know about the job, let them apply and tell them not to mention you.
I referred someone to a position once. Worked with the guy at a previous company and thought he would be a good fit. He ended up stealing over $8k in merchandise. I worked loss prevention and I'm the one that caught him. Corporate tried to implicate me on the theft since I referred him.
My job offers bonuses if someone you recommend gets hired. I recommended a friend a couple years ago, he got hired and I got $6k. I will continue to recommend my friends.
Yeah I got a bonuses as a kid for recommending friends to a basic call center job a couple of times. I wasnt great at the work but the people I got in there were great. Friend were happy it was ac and not fast food. Kid workers get rowdy though and it's weird
Let's look at it this way. Since the only change from the first time the second is removing a toolbar from the top, which contains absolutely no useful or relevant information, just exclude the first screenshot entirely and only post the "zoomed in" one.
A reference is not a referral. A referral can just say, hey I can't vouch for their skills, but take a look at their resume, if you don't mind - I met them at a conference. A reference is you vouching for someone.
I'd say you have those flipped. A reference is what they ask you to put down as part of the application process. Personal, professional, they may check at some point. A referral is you bringing someone else to the attention of the company as being a good fit for a role, or "why would you ask us to look at them?" is the question you will be asked if they turn out to be stupid. They're always "taking a look at" resumes. But sure, go ahead and tell your boss to interview your stupidest friend
Yeah, had a job candidate that wasn't looking good and he asked me to ask about it. So I talk with the top guy, and he says the guy had a "quit in the middle of a shift without telling anyone" on his record that was a big black mark. Asked if I was vouching for him, and I said, "I'll vouch enough to turn a maybe into a yes, but I don't know the guy well enough work wise to turn a no onto a yes." He didn't get the job.
Generally references are in fact asked about someone’s capacity. Its standard reference check questions. The expectation is not just, “oh yeah I met this person once.”
That's what they said: references are asked questions. They're saying referrals are treated more as introduction type middlemen, though, which probably should be the case but isn't.
Logically speaking, you're right. HR is not logical. Corporate logic is not logical. Few managers/supervisors that I've ever had have been logical.
When giving a referral, it is often seen as a higher form of vouching for them than a simple reference. Also, they rarely ask you about your referral anymore, but you have to go through a process where you basically apply for them and they get an email inviting them to finish the application process.
Yeah, my bf’s friend once asked me for a job (I was *not* in a hiring position and they knew it). I offered to help with a resume, build credentials, how to break into the field, etc. Not good enough, what they wanted was for me to directly refer them. 1) I had only met this person twice 2) I knew nothing of their professionalism (though I was getting an idea) 3) I don’t put my name on the line for anyone. My reputation for not causing problems and good judgement is too valuable to risk.
It was the casting couch, and his friend didn't want a 3sum..... In reality, it's basic math with a complicated name. You take a number that you want the sum to be and you take a series of input values (all integers btw) and you decide what combinations of non repeating input values give you that sum. So let's say the inputs are 7, 2, 1, 5, 3, 6 and the sum we want is 10, then our 3 sum answers are (7,2,1), (5, 3, 2), and (6,3,1)
I work in HR for a small town, don't put us in the same hellscape as HR in the US... We have laws to abide by which protect employees (and protect them a great deal).
Thank you! This is the first time I’ve seen it called out but I always thought it’s super blatant and messed up that companies literally have a department whose name equates humans to inventory.
For us, vacation, leave, anything timesheet related is Accounting. Company policy compliance? Ha, good joke. People seem to just do what they please with enough tenure under their belt. Hiring, firing, benefits, insurance is HR. Those tasks could pretty easily be given to someone else in our Administration group, or to upper management. Last time I went to HR with a problem, the onus was turned back to me instead of dealing with the source. There are other examples. I don't go to HR anymore.
Anyone else? There are many organizational models and you don't necessarily need a monolithical department for that. Companies existed before HR, in many different forms. Horizontal organization is a thing, HR are often useless middlemen between someone looking for a job and a technical interview with someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
Oh, they're far from worthless. It's just that we're taught that they're there for us. They're not. They're there for the company, not the workers. Remember the "shut the fuck up" legal advice about talking to cops? This is similar: HR is not your friend. They're not there to protect you, they're not there to serve you. They exist to protect the company.
They exist to serve the function of managing the people and preventing and solving conflicts. Like if everyone around you seems like a cool and sane person thank your HR people for looking for not just qualifications but attitude too. If you work with hateful fucking morons guess what kind of person works in HR? Does your HR take FMLA, accommodations, and such seriously? You have a great HR team. Do they constantly give you bullshit excuses for why your earned vacation cannot be taken? Assholes.
See, at our company HR is definitely not about solving conflicts. Last time I had one and I was clearly in the right, the onus was still put back on me to go do tasks X and Y to resolve it. How useless. I don't go to HR anymore. Us scientists/engineers do the job interviews, so we're evaluate attitude as well. Not HR. Most if not all of the HR tasks in our company could be delegated to Accounting, Administration, or Upper Management.
So what would you call the department that handled things like determining vacation policies, benefits, coordinating onboarding and exits, making sure employee contracts were kept up to date, doing basic non-team-specific hiring and firing tasks, etc?
"what would you call ... determining vacation policies, benefits, coordinating onboarding and exits" We call this Upper Management and our Accounting group. Hiring/firing is mostly done by functional managers. We have an HR person but honestly, most if not all of their tasks could be delegated to the Administration group or Upper Management as well. Or to the functional managers. She negotiates our insurance rates every year, which is nice. Still, others could do this, such as management.
And at some size of company, that works - the larger you get, the more you want specialization. You don't want an upper manager who is responsible for planning and executing the projects with the workers underneath them to also have to become an expert on accounting or benefits. The guy running the factory floor should understand how to make sure the people under him have what they need to accomplish the goals, not need to know how to run a company-wide 401k.
You're ignoring the question - when someone is employed, a person has to actually physically *do the work of entering in that person's information*. Ignore the "who is on whose side" - there's a real worker doing real work.
CorgisButtsDriveMeNuts
Why the same text twice?
youreathing
Why are there 2 shots of the same email?
IWantedOneOfThoseLongUsernamesTooSoIGotOne
I have noticed that you misspelled my name. This raises questions in my mind as to your basic competence as a Human Resources team. When you can spell my name correctly the first time without being corrected, I will agree to a technical interview.
Regards,
Aditii
PurifiedInTheWatersOfLakeMinnetonka
Bullshit.
Cataleast
Someone posted this meme a few weeks back and there was some discussion about how big of an effect of a referral/recommendation by someone already employed by the company has and why employers tend to put a lot of trust in that, because referring a poor candidate can reflect badly on the referrer. Assuming this is legit, it's a very good example on how a bad referral can put your judgement into question in the eyes of your employer.
CarlBassett
It's like the mob. You vouch for a guy and he turns out to be undercover FBI? Yeah you're going to be in deep shit.
marthafarquar
Years ago my brother recommended our cousins step daughter for a entry level position where he worked and it was a complete shit show. She was lazy, rude to her coworkers, and thought the fact that her uncle was a manager gave her special privileges. It not only damaged his relationship with his staff and reputation within the company, it also damage his relationship with our cousin and his family because they though he should have stepped in to stop her getting fired.
WhatTheFrench
Years ago, my nephew’s wife got a basic office job at my employer, a couple of years after having a warehouse job at my employer. She was unmedicated bipolar and did not use me as a reference or tell me she was applying, but name dropped me after she started. She did not fit in well and it caused problems for me. Super annoying when I didn’t refer her and we’d already employed her before so there should have been some record that she was a walking shitshow. (She is now medicated and employable.)
slopwizard
Misunderstanding the level of generational wealth required to be nepobaby
dripstone
this is why I don't refer or give referals.
Theshnazzyone
I mean, you can't even screenshot an email right, so they probably right to do this.
quade
Dear Aditi, you also pasted the same attachment twice, which also calls into question your basic office skills.
DianNaoChong
No such thing anymore and offices are struggling to adapt the smart phone only generation to the idea of attachments at all
ostensiblystupid
Add making the office drama public for entertainment purposes. Not really something anyone should want to go viral.
emu314159127001
Yeah, they prolly looked back, and this puzzle piece clicked with other stuff, and they realized they'd been giving this idiot the benefit of the doubt, which has been removed
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
it's a stereoscopic email
Revicus
I see it now! When you cross your eyes it makes a 3D penguin!
HeadJamistan
It's a schooner
zonedymo24
this cannot be real
Renza0
given its signed by "Hiring Team", I'm going to agree with you. and thats before unrealistic content of the email.
GimcrackGewgaw
This is the hiring committee getting revenge for wasting their time. But it's also a good way to convince your team to stop giving you access to their talent network. Word of this gets out, it shuts down the most effective hiring pipeline a company has. Some of my best hires start with me asking my best people "I wish I had two of you. Know anybody?"
misterCT
RexFury
man i remember watching Doubt and thinking it was really good but the only time it ever enters anyones mind is that this single gif exists
SJBSavageInk
Things that never happened for 100 Alex
Tenugui
3 sum problem? Not if you have a million dollars https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1aXVxaDZ1aW5vb3ZjejNnbnlzeDc0ZjlhZHZqdHFudjV4ZjJqYmh3cCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/Wpz1Hl1BqlaMw/200w.webp
Kotarisu
spittleteets
If Aditi's formatting ability is any reflection of his technical knowledge, dude is screwed.
Madchant
I've never referred a friend for a job explicitly. I did suggest a friend try to pick up a job at the place I had just been hired, and we acted surprised to 'discover' we both applied at the same place, and the boss was always skeptical, but fuck him, it was only a summer job.
keelindsey
One of my coworkers referred a friend of his for an open driving position we have had for a while. Guy ate a gummy a few days before his interview, and now has to wait a month or two for it to be out of his system so he can interview again, and this time pass the mandatory piss test.
VegaJuniper
I'm a senior software engineer and had to google what the 3 sum problem is.
iosa
I was in such a weird position once because I was asked to refer someone I didn't know for a job in an organization I had nothing to do with, only because of who my dad was. A coworker's mom wanted me to refer her other kid to my dad for a custodial job at a local school, since my dad was head custodian of the school system. This 'other kid' screwed me over once by refusing to get out of bed to take their mom to the hospital, forcing my coworker to call off so I had to close by myself.
MauroMolinero
this has to be illegal. and fake.
JohnSatclaire
There's no law forbidding employers from discriminating against those they believe to be morons, even when that belief is based on fairly flimsy evidence.
MauroMolinero
still fake
FrankGrenadine
Don’t refer *your idiot friends
Idontneedrealfacts
but only an idiot would be my friend :(
spittleteets
Seriously. Too many people don't realize that you become their professional reference. Not all, but some will ask the reference particular questions to gauge their qualifications as a reliable source of the candidates skillset.
Iwouldbenick
I just got my friend a job as my IT support. He is already knows more about IT than my current support team. He starts next week and I cant wait. In all fairness, he really wants / deserves this job.
zombywoof68
Joke's on you! I AM the idiot friend!
GRZMNKY
Don't refer anyone for a job. Let them know about the job, let them apply and tell them not to mention you.
I referred someone to a position once. Worked with the guy at a previous company and thought he would be a good fit. He ended up stealing over $8k in merchandise. I worked loss prevention and I'm the one that caught him. Corporate tried to implicate me on the theft since I referred him.
vigilante397
My job offers bonuses if someone you recommend gets hired. I recommended a friend a couple years ago, he got hired and I got $6k. I will continue to recommend my friends.
Alomega
Is it a US based company? I’d be surprised if so.
vigilante397
It is a US based company, but the caveat is that it's a STEM field requiring a degree and often a security clearance.
DianNaoChong
Yeah I got a bonuses as a kid for recommending friends to a basic call center job a couple of times. I wasnt great at the work but the people I got in there were great. Friend were happy it was ac and not fast food. Kid workers get rowdy though and it's weird
LeoFloof
I got my friend $500, and I stayed with the company for ~6 years.
greggbert
I come here for an interview and you are talking about threesum! I am not a cookie for you to enjoy!
Jaqdakloun
I don't let my friends or family refer me because I don't want to make them look bad, which is a possibility
IronMagnus
Seeing as this person posted the same information twice in their post, maybe they deserve to be reevaluated.
emu314159127001
They also posted about having idiot friend without comment
HastyPuddingPops
I think the intent was to show it a bit more zoomed for easier reading.
VeganFeministFlatEarther
But if that were the case, just post one larger image??
IronMagnus
But it's not more zoomed in. It's like the same.
HastyPuddingPops
Maybe it looks the same to you, but on desktop it's absolutely more zoomed in. I'd say at least 15-20%. And clearer to read.
IronMagnus
Let's look at it this way. Since the only change from the first time the second is removing a toolbar from the top, which contains absolutely no useful or relevant information, just exclude the first screenshot entirely and only post the "zoomed in" one.
1n10didPun
A reference is not a referral. A referral can just say, hey I can't vouch for their skills, but take a look at their resume, if you don't mind - I met them at a conference. A reference is you vouching for someone.
emu314159127001
I'd say you have those flipped. A reference is what they ask you to put down as part of the application process. Personal, professional, they may check at some point. A referral is you bringing someone else to the attention of the company as being a good fit for a role, or "why would you ask us to look at them?" is the question you will be asked if they turn out to be stupid. They're always "taking a look at" resumes. But sure, go ahead and tell your boss to interview your stupidest friend
1n10didPun
Didn't even Google that before saying it, did you?
Draygen
Yeah, had a job candidate that wasn't looking good and he asked me to ask about it. So I talk with the top guy, and he says the guy had a "quit in the middle of a shift without telling anyone" on his record that was a big black mark. Asked if I was vouching for him, and I said, "I'll vouch enough to turn a maybe into a yes, but I don't know the guy well enough work wise to turn a no onto a yes." He didn't get the job.
mangoinparis
Generally references are in fact asked about someone’s capacity. Its standard reference check questions. The expectation is not just, “oh yeah I met this person once.”
theshinobi23
That's what they said: references are asked questions. They're saying referrals are treated more as introduction type middlemen, though, which probably should be the case but isn't.
theshinobi23
Logically speaking, you're right. HR is not logical. Corporate logic is not logical. Few managers/supervisors that I've ever had have been logical.
When giving a referral, it is often seen as a higher form of vouching for them than a simple reference. Also, they rarely ask you about your referral anymore, but you have to go through a process where you basically apply for them and they get an email inviting them to finish the application process.
LeonessaVista
Yeah, my bf’s friend once asked me for a job (I was *not* in a hiring position and they knew it). I offered to help with a resume, build credentials, how to break into the field, etc. Not good enough, what they wanted was for me to directly refer them. 1) I had only met this person twice 2) I knew nothing of their professionalism (though I was getting an idea) 3) I don’t put my name on the line for anyone. My reputation for not causing problems and good judgement is too valuable to risk.
hamulusrex
My problem is my anxiety makes me freeze up and stammer. Doesn't matter how simple a problem is or if I've solved it before.
eastend666
Can someone smarter than me give an example of a basic 3 sum problem? Much obliged.
bittenicht39
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/dsa/find-a-triplet-that-sum-to-a-given-value/ You have an array of numbers and a target number. Question is: Are there three numbers in the array which, when added up, give the target number?
eastend666
Okay, so a variation of the numbers game on "8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown." Thanks.
bittenicht39
Example: [1,2,3,4,7,11,20,25], Target is 37. Solution: Yes, there is a sum 1+11+25=37.
ifoundthelight
I've been a software engineer for over 15 years. Worked in embbed, full stack... From medical to car sales and idk wtf a 3sum problem is.
Sonicschilidogs
It was the casting couch, and his friend didn't want a 3sum..... In reality, it's basic math with a complicated name. You take a number that you want the sum to be and you take a series of input values (all integers btw) and you decide what combinations of non repeating input values give you that sum. So let's say the inputs are 7, 2, 1, 5, 3, 6 and the sum we want is 10, then our 3 sum answers are (7,2,1), (5, 3, 2), and (6,3,1)
mrthewhitee
Jesus who stupid was your referral lol.
VaxxedCanadian
Want to try that sentence again?
ardtay
He's the referee
MarsIsAfire
Who do you know that?
MoreOfABrewerReally
Probably when enough to what, or even where. :P
MrBoopyPutthole
How?
TripUpStairs
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1NWl4Z2wwMjR0ZXpyNW5pajVwMDM0eTdkN3BkYXd0ZmpleW12eGt2YiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/133tEQgc0V3Dc4/200w.webp
crackajackin
Nothings more worthless than HR departments
JaimeLannistersRightHand
I work in HR for a small town, don't put us in the same hellscape as HR in the US... We have laws to abide by which protect employees (and protect them a great deal).
crateo
What the fuck is wrong with HR in America?
Renza0
short answer: unfettered late stage capitalism. theyre on the side of the rich, not the side of the disposable resources (actual people)
wejustdontknow
It's in the name. They view humans as resources.
Yasashii93
Thank you! This is the first time I’ve seen it called out but I always thought it’s super blatant and messed up that companies literally have a department whose name equates humans to inventory.
spittleteets
Corporate sellswords.
ObjectivePragmatistWithHope
More like Corporate SellYourSouls, or you're out. -_-
KillingTlme
So who does your hiring, firing, benefits, vacation, sick leave, and verifying all around company policy compliances?
mjperk
For us, vacation, leave, anything timesheet related is Accounting. Company policy compliance? Ha, good joke. People seem to just do what they please with enough tenure under their belt. Hiring, firing, benefits, insurance is HR. Those tasks could pretty easily be given to someone else in our Administration group, or to upper management. Last time I went to HR with a problem, the onus was turned back to me instead of dealing with the source. There are other examples. I don't go to HR anymore.
InTangier
Anyone else? There are many organizational models and you don't necessarily need a monolithical department for that. Companies existed before HR, in many different forms.
Horizontal organization is a thing, HR are often useless middlemen between someone looking for a job and a technical interview with someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
WoeToHice
Oh, they're far from worthless. It's just that we're taught that they're there for us. They're not. They're there for the company, not the workers. Remember the "shut the fuck up" legal advice about talking to cops? This is similar: HR is not your friend. They're not there to protect you, they're not there to serve you. They exist to protect the company.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
They exist to serve the function of managing the people and preventing and solving conflicts. Like if everyone around you seems like a cool and sane person thank your HR people for looking for not just qualifications but attitude too. If you work with hateful fucking morons guess what kind of person works in HR? Does your HR take FMLA, accommodations, and such seriously? You have a great HR team. Do they constantly give you bullshit excuses for why your earned vacation cannot be taken? Assholes.
mjperk
See, at our company HR is definitely not about solving conflicts. Last time I had one and I was clearly in the right, the onus was still put back on me to go do tasks X and Y to resolve it. How useless. I don't go to HR anymore. Us scientists/engineers do the job interviews, so we're evaluate attitude as well. Not HR. Most if not all of the HR tasks in our company could be delegated to Accounting, Administration, or Upper Management.
pgdave
So what would you call the department that handled things like determining vacation policies, benefits, coordinating onboarding and exits, making sure employee contracts were kept up to date, doing basic non-team-specific hiring and firing tasks, etc?
mjperk
"what would you call ... determining vacation policies, benefits, coordinating onboarding and exits" We call this Upper Management and our Accounting group. Hiring/firing is mostly done by functional managers. We have an HR person but honestly, most if not all of their tasks could be delegated to the Administration group or Upper Management as well. Or to the functional managers. She negotiates our insurance rates every year, which is nice. Still, others could do this, such as management.
pgdave
And at some size of company, that works - the larger you get, the more you want specialization. You don't want an upper manager who is responsible for planning and executing the projects with the workers underneath them to also have to become an expert on accounting or benefits. The guy running the factory floor should understand how to make sure the people under him have what they need to accomplish the goals, not need to know how to run a company-wide 401k.
StylesRockman
The unions that did the work so that HR could decide what the minimum was for the company not to get sued
pgdave
And for the 80%+ of workers who aren't in unions?
StylesRockman
Employment laws, fought for and won by unions.
HR is not and has never on the side of the worker, their role is to protect the company and shareholders.
pgdave
You're ignoring the question - when someone is employed, a person has to actually physically *do the work of entering in that person's information*. Ignore the "who is on whose side" - there's a real worker doing real work.