Howerserstanin
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Jun 28, 2026 4:31 PM
Howerserstanin
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reddles
The left one is cool but they're both still dumping water onto the footpath during a big rain. Better to run it through the enlarged grate.
kittypoopappledrink
All it takes is one person with an idea and a 3d printer
powwerbottom
Both are the same technology tho. The left one is more expensive (at first), but it probably never needs replacing and is harder to damage beyond its function like the one on the right. After many years of wear and tear, the latter probably racks up about the same cost. "Form follows function" doesn't mean "don't make pretty things," it just means "make sure it works well first, and then make it pretty."
mward1984
The problem with modern art degrees is that they're seen as easy to pass because after an Austrian in the forties got MEGA salty about failing his, everyone just sort agreed to lower the bar for passing.
mward1984
That said, the above would most likely involve a degree in Architecture, which ironically, if Adolf had tried first he probably would have succeeded and found fortune and success, as a fair number of the Nazi Party buildings were actually designed by him.
WeAreFriendsNow
People visit other places to see the architecture and enjoy what is different than where they live but the US is becoming cookie-cutter big box, 4 lane street corporate sameness across the entire country.
Stepford towns.
itdoesntmatternoneofthismatters
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky
Luorric
Fun fact: if you wear a reflective vest and set up some traffic cones you can go paint these and nobody will bat an eye. You can even wear a mask "for the fumes"
codenameRadical
That , but it's also a money th ing.
Simusar
They like at but don't think they should have to pay for it
Thisisallyourfault
Lol, my art degree got treated like it was useless. I work in IT now but at least theres some extra monies to do art as a hobby. Im currently into making chain maille jewelry. Let's see how long it lasts before I circle back to crochet or something else.
bikergeek6249
I have actually seen a theory that what's going on with modern buildings is deliberate "denial of craftsmanship", as a reaction to future historic preservationism. The idea is to make the building plain and functional and un-ornamental on purpose, so that in 75-100 years, when it's outlived its usefulness, historic preservationists won't complain when people try to tear it down.
WhoIsBoop
All great artists are technicians and all great technicians are artists. And the truly brilliant ones recognize they need one another to create great things.
Filanwizard
Artistic expression on a downspout costs money. That is why it’s just basic aluminum today.
Jinxer13
What's with the capitalism comments. People would rather have the left rather than the right? Golden encrusted ornamental sculpted drain pipes? Obviously in socialism drain pipes would still be closer to the right one. That's just efficiency lol. You would be more likely to see the left one in an absolute monarchy in the king's palace if anything.
apLundell
Yeah, the one on the left is rich people showing off all the wealth they've accumulated. We could make dragon downspouts for the masses, of course. But they'd be injection-molded, and not artisanally crafted. And you'd see the same designs over and over until you were tired of them.
SteamPriest
Nobody calls art useless, a degree in art... yeah. Just go, create, what's the point of memorising things already made, thats what A"I" does
Ree81
If the left one was popular in my city it'd be covered in stickers, grit from 1-3 decades of rain, and "tags".
GlutenFreeCocaineWaffles
"Best I can do is sink the entire tech economy into AI slop. Go work for Amazon. Bootstraps, you snowflake!"
Clayman8
As someone that has a masters degree in Illustration amd graphic design, no. They absolutely are useless because its mostly been about who you know or blind luck.
apLundell
Back when even the simplest pieces of technology cost an absolute fortune, you expected them to look nice. You know, because they were for rich people.
lonelyrangerofthedreams
Art degrees don’t teach decorativism anymore
BenderSaysNeat
This is what confuses me when white assholes in the US complain about foreigners taking over Western culture. Bitch, you all have been doing that yourselves by prioritizing profit and expediency over aesthetics. That’s why we’re inundated with country music festivals and bad chain restaurants. We’re the culture of the lowest, bare bottomest common denominator.
bentrod
I just don't see the economic value in putting fancy bronze fish heads on every downspout because a few people think it's "neat." I'm not white though so thank goodness by your definition I can't be the American asshole.
datphone777365
Nvm that western culture has been influenced by others and vice versa for as long as there has been trade....
I fucking hate the historically willfully ignorant...
Draygen
My town got super excited when we were getting a Starbucks (locally owned joint is godlike), a Jalepeno Tree (We have TWO locally owned tex-mex places that are S-tier), and a Panda Express (local spot had more selection and better service, but went out of business). People line up to ship their cash out of this town rather than keeping it in circulation here.
QueenOfTheFey
I've studied american culture and it's always funny because a lot of ppl think america has no culture but you do, unfortunately tho a major part of that culture is that priority of utilitarianism and this weird thing where there's like 3 tiers of product a. so cheap it doesnt work so poor ppl get fucked (why is this even a thing) b)plain boring shit thats more expensive(despite really cheaply made crap) but at least it works and c) Very expensive for clout but still not even pretty
BlindGardener
Unfortunately the reason we have the 'doesn't work' one is because there's not 'product usability' laws like in Europe, just product safety laws and they're pretty lax.
The idea, sorta, and it's really twisted and gross is that poor people are poor because they're being punished by god, so it's a good thing they get fucked. That's good enough logic to get half of the USA to vote in favor of it
QueenOfTheFey
Yeah, America hates the poor and loves the billionaire, and punishes the wrong one every time.
The myth of the meritocracy is strong there
EveryoneSaysEverythingHereisAI
When money becomes the only thing that matters; when the devout service unto mammon is the religion of the masses, everything else falls to the wayside! When the lowest common denominator becomes the highest aspiration, it degrades into a sociological or organizational phenomenon where simplifying content, policies, designs, or standards to appeal to the broadest audience or the least skilled group, will always result in mediocrity.
sKulagin
Art isn't useless. My gf is getting an art degree. Between the two of us we can make websites and video games from scratch: she does the design(websites), level design, 3D modeling, 3D animation, 2D assets. I do software development.
NoneOfYoBiseniss
OK, I'm gonna 3d print one of these for my spouts now!
bentrod
+1 for the real solution
Robbann
how well does 3d-printing material handle moving water long term?
Cearnaigh
Especially with all the stuff that comes down in rainwater nowadays.
bentrod
The cheap plastics (like PETG) is very very similar to 2L plastic soda bottles. The real one shown is likely bronze and will easily last 100+ years if it's not damaged or stolen before then.
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
When people think of the greeks and romans, their first thoughts are of architecture, clothing, statues, food and drink, philosophy, and theology.
You know what isn't people's first association with ancient civilizations? "Gee, I'm in awe of how the people overseeing grain management clerks used efficient logging methods for optimizing grain distribution strategies!".
For a society that fetishizes cultures of the past, we do a shit job of creating a culture of the present.
jmgapogee
Much of the architecture and ornamentation of the past was the result of competing wealthy patrons of the arts, flaunting their wealth to the community. The wealthy Catholic church also funded architects and figurative artists to glorify their holey escapades.
Gippo53
Alexap30
I would love a few Pokémon ones. Like a Gyarados one would be perfect.
TheFastpaws
If I ever win the lottery by not playing. I'll buy them for you.
Alexap30
🤣 And I will do the same. Deal. 🤝
HappilyRVafter
I am not a robot. Click on each picture with a gorgeous downspout.
Whitewolf30
We used to be a proper society
SleepyKitten
Ok. Maybe one reason we stopped making these standard is because they're too sexy.
DidItForScience
Hey uh, can I cancel that gutter cleaning I scheduled with you next weekend?
Cranbananarama
Do not the fish drain.
GimcrackGewgaw
Insert meme of college flyer asking people to stop clogging the shower drains with come.
Snooj
Nah, I've fucked plenty of them and they still hold up.
TheTojo15
How can I get one like this?
guitarfourtysix
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1740984180/custom-3d-resin-prints-3d-resin-printing
thechelonianshelmet
In all seriousness, you could likely get it custom made through the 3D printing community, there's already 3D printable figurines of the AWP cast.
jmgapogee
A completed degree is an indication that a person can complete a goal, which in itself is valuable to any employer. I have a degree in fine arts, painting. I've had to do other work to survive and raise children, and I always funded my own art activity. For me and most artists I've known, getting paid for doing art is secondary.
J3lek
That's not the problem. Capitalism is the problem. The one on the right costs less.
verityauger
It's absolutely this.
GeofrontTmP
These were done by artisans who would pass their trade from master to apprentice
Isorikk
It's not like every building from ancient times had elaborate snake gutters. Most people just want a roof over their head.
grandfalloon
That's not Capitalism. That's just... things that require more skill, material and time cost more, it doesn't matter your economic system. It has nothing to do with if the group making it is a cooperative, a corporation, or the Gargoyle's Guild.
Bojovnik84
Also, not everyone wants them. Cool to look at on 1 random old building, but I'm not over here foaming at the mouth to get them on my house.
draek1
Haber Bosch doomed the world. All of our problems would be solved if we had 1 billion people instead of 8+. It's only going to get worse. Humanity is currently optimized for quantity over quality and those of us with taste hate it.
haggerton
The one on the right costs less no matter which ideology we have.
Where ideologies can differ is which percentage of people can afford to pay more.
SneakyTrojan
Not even a little less, it's like fractional
eventide215
Exactly. The cost won't change. It's all in what the people hold dear. Clearly on the right they don't care about the aesthetic of it. Could be a hidden pipe you don't normally see as well. The left is something that would be like on the street and you see all the time so the aesthetic is more focused on. Similarly street lamps on busy roads tend to be more decorated or look better than others. That's not a bad thing necessarily.
AzgarOgly
As someone who was born and grew up in socialism, it has the very same problem, even more of it. Plastic in stead of wood. Tin in stead of bronze.
It is feudalism when the buildings are created with all the embellishments and bells and whistles. Because thousands of peasants pay for that by living near starvation and the few have all the money.
Though considering the situation in America, where, they say, all the money are in a hands of a few, we might see the return of baroque in some time.
kurvarVillain
Sadly, this time around the gold is all just spray painted plastic. Those with the wealth have no actual taste nor depth of thought.
AzgarOgly
That might be true for the american new rich. Though I have heard, that yachts, for instance, are made to the high standard with fine materials.
Also despite the wealthy doing the wealthy thing, they still are under the tabloid eye, so should some of them build something genuine with all that gargoyles and pillars and real carved marble, they will get media attention and not a good one, I suppose. Might be bad for business.
tinydog
We're all baroque.
slinkydust
I've been baroque for a while now
fskn
Well, for one thing, being cheaper means that more people can have them.
Marsupialmessiah
Ohhhh, you naïve folk. Making it cheaper is not for 1st world, its to increase profits because larger volumes! Ohhh sweet child of mine...
AlexKeed
Yes, but that also means some people can't afford beauty, but only functionnality.
TheMuellmann
Which, of course, has been the case for the vast majority of people over the vast majority of human history.
minipancho94
Not really. People would make their own beautification on their own, or rely on barter. Peasants still made necklaces and jewelry, it was just out of different materials. Its only in the last few hundred years due to capitalism and the holding of wealth that even the poors dont have the means to barter, or the free time to make their own. We used to have entire winters spent doing nothing but maintenance and crafting in many cultures. Sure those crafts were sold, but they were also gifted.
TheMuellmann
I absolutely agree, but that's more a matter of time than affordability, no? Which is also a kind if affordability... nevermind, you're right, I stand corrected.
AShartInTheWind
But at least public beauty could be appreciated by everyone. Now, beauty is being increasingly reserved for the haves and the have nots are just supposed to go without.
SkinnerTBD
One costs upwards of 10k to replace. The other can be done for a few hundred bucks. Capitalism.
PanNonOpticon
Not capitalism. One takes only one morning to make, even from sheet steel. The other on is weeks work from a team.
Capitalism would be them costing the same.
SledgeRipley
It's less capitalism and more utilitarian design. If function is the only thing that matters, make everything boring tubes and flat surfaces.
SirEelstuf
ok, but where does the primacy of function derive if not to maximize profit? If two objects serve the same purpose but one has aesthetic value, why not choose the one with aesthetics? Because it costs more.
axiomatik
People make value judgements everyday that aren’t directly profit-motivated. I could pay a craftsman $100,000 to make artisanal downspouts for my house, but I’d much rather save my money for other uses.
grandfalloon
That's not Capitalism. That's just... things that require more skill, material and time cost more, it doesn't matter your economic system. It has nothing to do with if the group making it is a cooperative, a corporation, or the Gargoyle's Guild.
LordFriteuse
yeah pretty sure communist countries would have the one the right too
mangoinparis
One was only for the rich and institutions, the other for everyone.
skysailor93
I looked up "gutter spout fish" and found a bunch for under 100 bucks. Probably not a hand carved masterpiece, but still fun.
florpglorp
The blacksmith charges a couple hundred to fix a leak, but the. contractor only fixes the leak if he upcharges you to redo all the gutters, with permits thats around 10k
arumunus
With the advent of 3d printers, I bet similar could be printed for the purpose of making a mold in which the final material could be used- wouldn't cost a shit ton of money. Just time, some know how, and elbow grease.
Or if you sculpt, or someone who loves you sculpts- something could be worked out then.
dashers
Which one is capitalism? The 10K one is the reserve of the elite, the other is accessible to the rest of us peasants.
GerbilHereReportingLiveFromRichardGeresAss
Temu has entered the chat
50m31AW
They're both capitalism. The rich assholes spend a tiny fraction of their hoarded money on the nice one, and relegate the rest of us to the soulless utilitarian one bc there's no profit in developing anything nice for us bc we can't afford it. If there was an equitable distribution of wealth, we'd have a lot more access to ornamentation on our buildings instead of just living in soullees corporate cookie cutter boxes
bentrod
"If there was an equitable distribution of wealth, we'd have a lot more access to ornamentation on our buildings" Sounds simply magical.
cheeriossuckbecause7
The argument that college degrees are only valuable for the job they unlock is utter crap.
unremarkableasterisk
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1Z3p2bHZsOXU5ZHRyNnYwNnNxNGNvdjBlcmNldmdybWttbGRwMzJrdSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/200w.webp
Ivain
Yep, in fact the job industry got that massively wrong in the first place. The original point of academia was to push the frontier of human knowledge. Companies started hiring people with college degrees for specialist knowledge because that wasn't something you could train on the job. At some point, universities must have started 'training for a job' and around that time 'training on the job' became much more rare.
HandoB4Javert
DrAnimalWelfareScientist
I tell my students that I understand that college may be what they feel they have to do but I hope they leave with more empathy and understanding of the world because that's not all they have to take away from it. Capitalism commodified higher education but they can't stop you from becoming a more worldly person as part of the process
Urgalicity
How about we start hiring people to make real things with real value instead of always scraping every last cent of profit?
Antrobus55
Riley Gaines agrees.
shitheadtookmyname
So then you disagree with op since it's specifically saying you can't create art without an art degree?
HighMagosSquidward
Im convinced that every major should have a minor in philosophy. It helps in basically every field to understand why youre doing the things you do. From business to medicine.
dixxienormus
What flimsy argument? Education is mostly about developing transferable skills and that is not a debatable point.
SarcasticComment
at some point, make them free if we don't want to have the "this better be worth the money" talk. College is too expensive for future income to not factor in.
robpaschal
I got an Econ degree from Chapel Hill in the 90's. I've never used it.
dashers
Agreed, I have no degree and have a far better paying job than my other half's degree backed job. She does though have a far greater understanding of wine regions that she picked up at college.
cheeriossuckbecause7
Seems like maybe you've missed the point. How... unsurprising. But you do you.
dashers
Oh, you think :)
cheeriossuckbecause7
Yeah.
Sticklebrickk
I want to teach music, but I cant.
Clockworkdancerobot
Anti-intelectualism at work. It elevated to full on college hate. They convinced people that "Gender studies" was worthless, when it's often additional to others like law, medicine, counseling, and a hundred others. And we see the need when doctors and scientists tend to have outdated ideas about the sexes like they do about race.
Urgalicity
Honestly, colleges could do themselves a favor by renaming "Gender Studies" to something like "Applied Civil Rights" or "Civil Rights Development". Cause that would be just as accurate.
Clockworkdancerobot
I am not sure that would help. The right intentionally misunderstands things. Claims them to be something wrong or bad. This happens with anything they oppose.
Urgalicity
This is true, but it would be something. And the people who know anything about the field would definitely understand the name change. Besides, it could then more easily include labor and racial equality subjects.
Clockworkdancerobot
Or they would just club you over the head "Your propaganda didn't fly so you change the name!" .. see Climate change responses from the right. Again, We're dealing with wholly unserious opposition to things that work for society. Use a new name, they'll invent a reason to malign it.
mksu
In that particular case, I think misogyny takes precedence over anti-intellectualism. Most of the people shrieking about gender studies are people who very likely ask what women were wearing when raped, or as they'd put it "clearly wanting it."
Xenarion
This. Every attack I've seen on gender studies was an attack on feminism.
MeeseOnABeam
yeah i swear to god if i see another country blumpkin talking about big city liberals getting underwater basket weaving degrees im gonna lose it, surely you want those supposedly frivolous classes to provide successful careers as a sign the economy is healthy enough to support things that aren't just agriculture and industry
InTangier
That and "the job market". It was always a one way street when said market dictated which degrees are useful and which go unrewarded. Leave it at the hands of a free market and you get entire sectors of knowledge forgotten, just because some capitalists don't think it's monetizable.
There's a lot of stubborn certainty in decisions that can be very wrong and hard to undo. I'd argue the anti-intelectualism was a distraction to prevent this, since folks were staring to ask questions.
thor0486
I don’t know if any of it really matters aside from critical thinking.
waheliod
Yes
ropetopus
It really does matter. A decent college isn’t the end of learning, for sure, but there are a ton of skills (including how to effectively research, how to understand scientific and critical literature, how to organize and prioritize) and a ton of base knowledge that give you a significant advantage in most aspects of life.
Propaganda has people convinced anything that you don’t use DIRECTLY is useless, but the indirect value is huge.
axiomatik
Going 10s of thousands of $ in debt to get a degree in a field where you won’t be able to pay it back is also dumb. Why does someone need a degree to become an artist? That is not how the vast majority of artists in human history have become artists.
spinbutton3
If you're referring to European artists, traditionally a kid was apprenticed to an artist's workshop. There he learned how to grind pigments and prepare surfaces as well as learning to draw and how to paint and sculpt. Apprenticeship were often paid for and went on for decades. Africa had a similar system (depending on the culture). Creating visual art, like creating ceramics, playing an instrument or iron working or woodworking or laying bricks are complicated and require training.
johnathanrossshoulddie
Yeah going into deep debt for education is bad, everyone agrees (except for the banks and the politicians who voted to make educational debt be the only debt that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy). The solution to that problem isn't "don't get educated" and you're the only example of why it is not the solution.
ropetopus
You do not have go tens of thousands into debt to get a degree. For one, that’s really only a thing in the US. For another, that much debt means you went to far too expensive a school; affordable schools still exist.
My neighbor’s kid graduated last year; bachelor’s in mechanical engineering, under $8k of student debt.
cheeriossuckbecause7
Exactly. Managing money for school is something that can be done to minimize post-school debt. Less than 9k for me, and that's including a master's.
cheeriossuckbecause7
So education is only viable when it's profitable? Thanks for illustrating my point.
BigBadGuitarPlayer
No, education is only worth going tens of thousands of dollars into debt for if it's profitable. You should learn to read.
Muffinburgler
Maybe we should be paying more careers a living wage instead?
axiomatik
Do you have poor reading comprehension skills or are you being willfully ignorant? Nowhere in my comment did I say that education is only viable when it’s profitable. In fact, 1/2 my comment promoted education/training from other, non-college avenues. I said that it is a bad idea to go into massive debt (and suffer decades of debt-related stress and anxiety) for a degree that that won’t help you pay off that debt. But I guess you want people crippled by student debt.
RubyPorto
Yes, and that's a problem. But that problem is not solved by pretending that it's a good choice for an individual to spend money they don't have to get a degree that likely won't improve that individual's prospects (no matter your training, it's hard to do art if you can't afford supplies). Artists are important and society should figure out a way to pay artists but, until it does, 18 year olds probably shouldn't go into massive debt to sacrifice themselves on the altar of society's failure.
cheeriossuckbecause7
And that debt is the result of the commodification of education, and the weaponization of its denial through debt. When education was properly funded, we did not have exorbitant debt weighing people down. And with the societal benefits education brings, it's a community investment.
Kyomen
You can't blanket education in that way. What does someone pick up and learn during a 4 year art degree outside of general learning tools required to get through that degree? College is meant to develop knowledge and sharpen skills. An artist can sharpen their skills anywhere, at any time, especially with the internet. The same can be said for other degrees... mostly. The big difference is subjectivity and you can show your ability in a portfolio with art. College is not the only avenue of edu.
cheeriossuckbecause7
College is meant for a wee bit more than just sharpening skills in one area.
Kyomen
To clarify a bit more, for the required courses for that end goal of an art degree what are you getting to differentiate from other ones? Why is THIS the recourse? Why do you HAVE to go to college for this? Why is this notion of education locked behind debt and a structural system that does not need to be there for something rooted in creativity? Do you think art degrees and other creative degrees are how you get the left image instead of the right? It's not. You feed into commoditization of art
Kyomen
I said sharpen skills. Not sharpen skill. You can get and take courses in art while getting a degree in something else and vice versa. Right? Didn't answer my question either.
azazyel
My degree is not even close to the field I work in. But the tools I developed to get that degree, I use almost daily. For example I can research problems, organize my thoughts and condense them. This might seem trivial but fuck I've tried to read people's work that were rambling messes.
nikinnorway12
oh man, the ability to solve problems by interpret and apply abstraction at a high level
dashers
On the other hand, I have the same thoughts and I'm uneducated. What I regret about not having a degree is the time I could have spent focusing on my area of interest instead of earning money and buying toys.
azazyel
Or being able to find a new interest. I loved Community College, I got to just take classes because I thought they were interesting
spinbutton3
That's wonderful
cheeriossuckbecause7
Exactly. My discipline does not create millionaires. Never has, never will. But critical thinking, research, contextual vision are all things that are vital to a multitude of jobs and fields. And that's ro say NOTHING of the benefit to society as a whole in having people educated to realize that simplistic answers are rarely the way to go. Context and detail are critical. Asking why is among the most dangerous things a person can say, and education helps drive that.
nikinnorway12
the idea that the purpose of work/study is to try to become a millionaire is fucking baffling. it's to have a good life and build a better society/community
cheeriossuckbecause7
RIGHT??! Say it louder for the people in the back!