Tor vs VPN

Sep 12, 2016 10:18 PM

TheCrowFather

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It seems like every time someone mentions a VPN there's always the comments of "Just use TOR". These two things are not mutually exclusive and provide different benefits. Let's discuss what is actually happening with both of these. (Sorry about image quality. I'm on Mobile)

VPNS

A VPN is a virtual private network. With a VPN your data is sent to the VPN providers server through an encrypted tunnel. From there the VPN provider will route the traffic to the proper location. The way this works is through TCP/IP headers. The VPN strips off your TCP/IP header and replaces it with it's own so that it appears that the traffic is coming from the VPN server instead of you. This is a system we'll also see with TOR. Where VPNs provide benefit is in the end to end encryption. Your traffic is encrypted from your computer to the VPN server. From there the server will negotiate encryption with the website and if available use the highest possible. If the website does not support SSL/TLS encryption your data will be sent in plaintext to the website.

What benefit does this provide? The end to end encryption prevents cyber criminals from getting ahold of your data in transit. Let's use an example here. Alice is at Starbucks and trying to go to Bob's website. Eva is also at starbucks but she is running a packet sniffer. Provided that Bob's website does not support SSL/TLS encryption Eva would be able to see what Alice is doing on Bob's website including getting her credit card details, username, and password. If Alice was using a VPN Eva would only see a VPN tunnel but not what was inside of the tunnel. The information would come across as gibberish. Realistically Eva could theoretically decipher this traffic but if the VPN is reputable it is going to be an AES256 bit cipher which would take years to decipher.

TOR

TOR

TOR or The Onion Router operates a bit differently. TOR operates on a series of Nodes. Each Node is called a HOP, and each HOP changes the location in which the traffic is coming from. Communications from the router to the first Node/Hop are encrypted, and communication between each Hop is also encrypted. However communications between the computer and the router are not encrypted, and communications between the last Hop and the webpage might not be encrypted (The negotiation). Each Hop strips the TCP/IP header and replaces it so that each time it hops it looks like it came from the one before it. There is no set pattern of how many Hops a TOR connection will go through so even the first Hop doesn't know if t is receiving data from another Hop or from the host. The last Hop does actually know the path back to the originating PC. That's why there's a general phrase that whoever controls the end node controls the information.

Let's go back to our example with Alice, Bob, and Eva. If Alice is using TOR and attempts to connect to Bob's website Bob will see the last hop she took as the originator instead of Alice's PC. Meaning that it might come from somewhere in Russia rather than the Star Bucks in California. This however will not actually stop Eva from being able to see Alice's traffic. See image above. Because the connection to the ISP, through the router is not encrypted Eva could still see everything Alice is doing, or almost everything.

Using VPN and TOR

Is it possible to use VPN and TOR together? Yes it actually is. It will give you the best of both worlds. Your PC will establish and encrypted connection to the VPN server. The VPN server will then route your traffic to the first TOR Node. From there the TOR Nodes will Hop you around until they eventually put you to your destination.

TL:DR: TOR and VPNs are very different protocols. VPNs are made for encrypting connections and TOR is made to keep you anonymous. Let's stop saying one is better than the other or use TOR instead of VPN., etc. Use them for what they are made for, and hopefully now you know mostly what that is.

Up address 333.333.333.333 lol

7 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Tor is great if you want to do illegal Shit vpns are great if you want to be kinda hidden

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Keep up with PSAs like this. I would love to know more but it's hard to learn when there is so much false information out there.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

I can try. What I don't usually post much, but topic are you curious about.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I use Net-Security-Application VPN and I browse safely the inter.... BRB, someone knocking hard on the front door.....

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

. .

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/tor-vpn-proxy

10 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 2

Not sure why someone down voted your comment... But really glad you posted sauce for those who want to learn a little more :)

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Thanks now I can understand Mr. Robot a little better

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Ehhhhhh

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Using VPN and TOR is pretty overkill though. Unless you're doing dark shit you shouldn't need both. VPN is good enough for general use.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If you need an explanation of the difference between tor and a vpn, you aren't capable of using either safely.

10 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 23

That's me. Never had a computer savvy friend to show me the ropes and am too afraid of risks to try by myself. It's frustrating

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

but you have to start learning somewhere, this is a good starter

10 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 1

Anyone have any markets they wanna PM me?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

Just tell me which one to use for porn

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

Jeez!! Ever heard of a thing called a joke?!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Porn is no joke...it's a lifestyle.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

VPN. That way no one knows what freaky fetishis you're into

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And when it's all said and done, your gigabit Google Fiber is slowed to 28.8kbps due to all the hops.

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

VPNs are usually a lot faster.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

There's still the extra hop and the processing time of encryption. And it only gets worse when you combine the two as suggested.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yeah, that's not what VPN is.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 7

I can't see any wrong with the simplified explination. Care to elaborate?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Care to explain what I had wrong? I'm clearly talking about a user VPN not a corporate VPN which is a very separate thing entirely.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

10 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 7

but why ? Using TOR or a VPN doesn'T mean you are in a situation where this man is offering a seat. (sorry, don't know his name)

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Chris Hansen

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Tor is known to be used for trading things Chris will more than happy to offer seats for.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Are there any non-massively illegal reasons to use these?

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 11

VPNs can overcome Geoblocking, which I guess is illegal? But not massively illegal? There are a tonne of interesting legal sites on TOR.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Depends on what you see as illegal, really. Many people use it simply to access news in countries that try and censor it from the public

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

VPNs are used for privacy, especially when using free public networks.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

vpnbecame illegal in uae

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Privacy is not illegal

10 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

That's true, but he could be in a country that considers encryption illegal.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I used TOR once... Got 50+ letters from my ISP several weeks later saying I downloaded a ton of copyrighted stuff that I never downloaded.

10 years ago | Likes 51 Dislikes 3

Did you accidentally set up a TOR node? If so people could have used you as a Hop to download.

10 years ago | Likes 66 Dislikes 1

You're lucky that no one downloaded CP or bought illegal shit using your node

10 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 2

What is cp? Cheese Pizza?

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

It's actually referred to as Kp and its kiddie porn.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 9

haha. "child porn"

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 4

dude I know... but in the dark, they call it cheese pizza or hard candy

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

TOR is highly unreliable now as law enforcement keep making their own Nodes in order to more accurately track users and hosts

10 years ago | Likes 113 Dislikes 7

The exit node does not know the entry note, so it doesn't matter who provides it.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The project organizers blacklist any "poisoned" nodes that are discovered on the network. Also, it doesn't matter as long as you encrypt.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Once NSA had the ability to track all Internet traffic they realized that there is too much of it. /1

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So DARPA made TOR so people could flag themselves as potential targets for NSA to track. /2

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Custom Tor?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That's where the part about the end nodes comes in. Since the end node has to know how to send traffic back it knows the whole route.

10 years ago | Likes 42 Dislikes 2

No. Just, no. This is wrong. Exit node only sees exit traffic, and next intermed. router. Thus "ONION" router. Many layers of encryption.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Isn't that why you also use a VPN AAAND TOR. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ideally sure. But there is no guarantee of anonymity. Just understand with enough time you can always be traced back.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

*NSA

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

well yeah, anything can be traced nowadays with the convinient technology of obsessive stalking and the SNA

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And that's where multiple jumps come in. You -> VicSock/VPN -> TOR -> VicSock/VPN -> Content. That way TOR anonymises without knowing 1/?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

There are lots of ways to further mask your identity like DNS tunneling through google but those are well outside the scope of my PSA.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

you. Sure the end node may know your entry point, but that isn't you. And it doesn't know what you're accessing. 2/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0