Ringshadow
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I'd uploaded all this once before but thought I'd give it another shot.
I drew this in 2010 while I was getting a related Associate's degree, to answer some questions friends had.
Background dose in the United States could be as low as 350 or as high as 600 or more, depending on your altitude, soil composition, and whether you are a smoker. The highest background radiation is Ramsar, Iran with 20,000. The lowest background? Submarine crews under polar ice caps.
Atoms over 240 will fission. Maybe. Depends on the isotope and how they're feeling that day, it's complicated.
If it was a one for one exchange (one neutron breaks an atom and one neutron goes stray from that), it would just be an interesting science trick. It's that we get two or three neutrons for every split atom that makes it a viable power source.
We're not talking about CANDUs or anything because this is what I know, and because BWR and PWRs can be found worldwide.
Boiling water reactors have a phenomenon called "Sky shine." Basically, if you are right outside the containment buildings on a cloudy or foggy day, gamma will bounce off water and hit you.
It's not a lot, but it's enough that people who work in the offices may not be allowed to have radiation-tracking badges because they leave them in their desks and artificially add to the plant's year long dose.
That steam bubble, teamed up with a faulty indicator light, caused TMI2.
Replacing a steam generator is one of the largest, if not the largest, maintenance tasks that a nuclear power plant will ever attempt. It involves punching a hole through the dome of containment.
Replacement of steam generators that ended up being faulty from the manufacturer, and failing after only a few years, is what shut down SONGS in California. It's that expensive.
The shape of containment will tell you what the plant is/how old it is.
Generally speaking, you will only see the 'box' containment for a BWR as it's an outer shell over true containment, which is kind of an inverted lightbulb shape (the drywell).
The farthest right is the most recent generation of PWR, and is a combination of the middle two.
A lot of people bitch about the plane test because it wasn't a full building and the wall wasn't properly secure blah blah blah because apparently slamming a plane into a wall and having it bounce off isn't impressive enough.
Some containments operate in IDLH environments when at power because they pipe in cover gasses, like nitrogen, to remove the breatheable oxygen (why? hydrogen).
There are two key points for whether radiation dose will hurt you. Time, and amount.
My favorite page of the entire thing.
Some ion chambers are entirely mute, no speakers.
Some tick. Some beep. Some hiss static at you. It's brand and model dependent. Friskers and teletectors always make noise unless you turn the volume off and even then the alarm setpoints will usually still scream.
The two numbers here are 400 and 600 REM.
400 is LD 50/30. Half the population dead in thirty days with no medical intervention. 600 is LD 100/30. Everything dead in thirty days with no medical intervention. Both of these numbers are for ACUTE dose, IE, all dose given in a very short time.
I mean think about this. An atom is so pissed off at its configuration it completely removes four pieces of itself and changes elements by two places.
Whoa.
Alpha gon fuck you up bruh. It's got basically zero range but with a +2 charge it will ionize all your shit.
Interestingly enough, you can not shield beta with heavy elements because you will end up with more radiation after. Google "bremsstrahlung".
They used to say you could determine x-ray vs gamma based on energy level. Nay so, they can have matching energy levels. So really you have to determine it based on what's letting the photon off.
Tungsten impregnated silicone is the new gold standard for dense shielding. Expensive, but nontoxic and can be molded to fit pipes exactly, so zero gaps.
With no charge, the only thing that will slow down neutron radiation is hitting something of similar size. If it collides with a heavy nucleus it'll probably just bounce away and barely slow down. Giving it a bunch of hydrogen to bounce off of makes it spend its energy and stop.
This is also how it hurts humans. It basically batters your shit apart by force. In the case of water, it'll break your H20 into H and OH. And that OH changes the acidity level.
This is my job. Also telling people to stop that.
We do have vests. You don't want to wear them. And using negative pressure respirators is very rare, and generally done by painters.
And now some comics about me at work.
You didn't see the bright yellow and pink postings. Really.
Training. Welcome to power point hell.
FIELD TRIP
It turns out that if you call Sherwin-Williams and try to order paint by the drum they get really really curious about what you're painting.
BINK
Teledose tracking screens have a hypnotic effect.
Don't ask me this.
Protective clothing!
Personally I prefer OREX over laundered.
We're all mad here.
True story bruh.
Fun with plant PA systems.
SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT
Hey Ops could we not drown Decon?
But seriously if Decon runs, follow, they don't spook easy.
Word for word verbatim.
We don't really care about your schedule, Operations. It's not our job to care.
Please stop.
Oh god. Please stop.
Rodeodoc
As a uranium miner I approve of this post. Now let's all have some yellow cake (UO2 joke)
vicedictator
Reading this after having a "yellow cake bake sale" for my nuclear engineering department in college haha
iEatTheCat
My god I love this post. Out of all posts on imgur this is by far my favorite. I wish I could upvote more than once.
McBook
Alternate accounts...
C0dewizard
At first I was like.. http://imgur.com/BpT3TVc but I actually sat here and read every.last.word... Amazing!
wulf97
Oh I get it! TEAL DEAR. I like that
the1theycallGreen
My thoughts exactly, of my time on imgur this is by far the best I have seen. Informative and fun!
PotatoThunder
great post OP. my dad is a nuke engineer and will love this :)
Ringshadow
Feel free to share it as long as credit is given :D
GunArm
good god that was long. wish I could give more upvotes
ThatGuyWhoDownvotesFrontPageEditsAndDickbuttAndRepostStatistics
No front page edit? I'm proud of you, OP.
cannotthinkofcoolname
Are you making a book? Because this is how you make a book.
Ringshadow
I've thought about redoing and expanding it but honestly I have no idea who would publish it.
ZGAEveryday
Self publish on amazon or sell a pdf direct through a payment widget. I know how. Message me if you want to work together.
lainzis
You could consider doing a self publish on amazon. If nothing else, a PDF release for a few bucks on one of the other sites that support it.
spyrit8
I'd buy that!
stressfracturesintitanium
There's a market for this, just look at the people who made XKCD's "What If?" book a best-seller. I'd love a book of this post OP.
Ringshadow
It's something for me to look into I guess, thank you!
HelplessRomantic
And then you will get more of the Imgur death kiss. Or hug. Muahahaha! If you'll be famous, don't forget us! Good luck OP! We believe in U!
wombatfacts
You should contact Randal Munroe the guy that draws XKCD
WenchMinion
Honestly, if you were to self publish it then post here (since you made front page), you'd gain popularity and you'd be good to go lol
gadgetneo
Self publish. Refine the drawings a little, and get some help editing (a good editor can help with flow and other details). Do it!
JonTao
Schoolhouse Rock
TheWheelIsSpinningButTheMouseIsDead
@Ringshadow I watched "Pandora's Promise" on netflix, and thought it was really eye-opening. But was it accurate or not in your opinion?
Ringshadow
A lot of it was very accurate actually. It's a fantastic documentary.
TheWheelIsSpinningButTheMouseIsDead
Glad to hear it, it struck me as genuine, but these days you never know for sure with the "documentaries" you can find online...
oorahaf
Power generation: No matter how high tech you get, it's still a high tech water wheel. Water wheels all the way down
Ringshadow
There might be turtles somewhere near the bottom.
Ferfax
This is needs to go viral so bad, so many people follow what the media says. So many of their "experts" are clueless.
tomyironmane
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that. It's really bad when they ry to talk about guns, too.
Kargathia
Isn't the general concern about nuclear not the running of the plant, but the consequences if something blows up?
DarthFutuza
Well there's only going to BE consequences because of how poorly a plant is run. If you have 30 incompetent workers disaster could happen.
uziel144
Or natural disasters.
DarthFutuza
Not really, you plan for those.
Ringshadow
:( I'd love it to FP. I posted it before and it got a lot of points, admittedly, I'd love for it to get more views. Education is important.
WumboPower
I invested in a nuclear power plant corporation a few years ago and a month later the stock plummeted because no one understands it!
PrincessGiagantess
This needs to be a bill nye style video.
AlfadorThePurple
Thank you op this is one of my favorite imgur posts ever
Wrkncacnter
Nuclear would be such a good way to cut dependence on fossil fuels but all the media does is fear monger about it :\
ahabeta
instead strengthen dependence on uranium!
Wrkncacnter
Most Uranium comes from Australia and Canada, and we're on pretty good terms with them. The U.S. produces a lot of uranium as well.
ahabeta
my country, however, is 100% dependent on others
Wrkncacnter
Which country?
DarthFutuza
Well they have some valid points a) There are valid alternate renewables available b) Waste & Terrorist Targetting c) Incompetence, etc.
DarthFutuza
But I do still love me some nuclear.
Wrkncacnter
only been one nuclear accent in the history of the U.S., and it barely deserves the name. I very much doubt that would really be an issue3/3
Wrkncacnter
because, well, they build those things pretty solid. (look up the video of a plane flying into the concrete wall of one. C) There has 2/3
DarthFutuza
When I say terrorism, I'm more worried about the waste being targeted (very easy to contaminate ground water or create dirty bombs) with it
Wrkncacnter
I guess? But it's not like it's just thrown into a dump, yah know? I guess it's possible, but I think it's kinda improbable.
Wrkncacnter
A) True, but not everywhere is suited for them. B) Waste is a problem, but not one that can't be over come. Terrorism I'm not worried 1/2
DreadedVegas
None of the other renewables are ready for major usage in the short term This is something that can be put in place now until others are rdy
brettiexedge
The comics at the end are spot on! Been decon/RP for 10 years and I have seen all of those situations. +1
Ringshadow
WOO GO DECON!
Vlerabutt
OP, you have to work at Browns Ferry. Surely to god people aren't yelling Roll Tide in nuclear power plants outside Alabama.
Ringshadow
I don't think you understand how many 'Bama fans there are.
jcvara
Favorited for furry educational science :D
Nellielliel
I was about to go to bed, but now I'm gonna learn about nuclear power instead
AFuckingBazooka
heheheheheh you said nuclear. It's nuclear dummy the S is silent.
Volensblood
That rhymed and I love you
Nellielliel
I... I just now noticed that
CanadianEngineer
Essentially what happens to me all year in school
CanadianEngineer
It loses the appeal after a while
BeansandToast
hahaha if ever the randomness of the internet was summed up in one sentence. Good for you!
voodoogod
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/55/24/dc5524b402039b64aa1926aff7c103a2.jpg
thebakingnudist
Spent over half an hour reading carefully at midnight, was not disappointed by the informative and amusing material.
Blazzical
You and me both
NeoDarkElf
Hey you're not @IOnlyCommentInRhymingVerse
IOnlyCommentInRhymingVerse
Mwahaha! I'm spreading my poetic disease! (And thanks for the shout-out - I'm mighty pleased.) Y'all had better beware the rhyme-flu scare.
NeoDarkElf
If it's a disease then it's one that having would make me pleased. It might be cheesy but it makes my linguist bone feel beefy.
IOnlyCommentInRhymingVerse
I wanted to respond with a nuclear pun, but I only just started reading this so it'll be a while before I'm done.
NeoDarkElf
An attempt was made though not worthy of a parade. I've not not read any of it so don't have a fit.
TheRicM
It's pronounced "nucular"
Conradian
Erm no why would it be that?
TheRicM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hORaebYWDwk
Conradian
Wow... Just wow
IDidNotChooseTheNerdLifeItChoseMe
Thanks, Max Power!
Ringshadow
I pronounce it nookular. It seems to be a Midwestern accent issue.
blackguard89
NO ITS NOT! ITS JUST A US THING! I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALALALALAA!
idcpyro
I'm in the scho learning this. First day they said nuclear power is basically this hot rock make hot water make steamy steamy make 1/?
StandardDeviant
That's literally verbatim from the textbook
idcpyro
Turbine go roundy roundy make sparky sparky.
Ringshadow
... Yeah, that's basically it.
pyronyzen
Google "Nuclear Boy Scout"
Nellielliel
I remember reading about that. Crazy.
NekoMiko06
Forget Hahn, it's all about Wilson... and maybe Edwards.
pyronyzen
Probably doesn't matter, but I've met one of the forefathers of rocketry, George Von Tiesenhausen. I'll probably make a post of it, he's old
NekoMiko06
Even his surname sounds smart: George of Profoundhouse
summercat
As SOON as I saw the title, I thought of you.
Ringshadow
I'm BAAAAAAACK. I had to try again man.
drunkcalendar
as a furry, +1
DrBobbert
Im in Alabama doing research on Nuclear Propulsion, so this was a fun read :)
Ringshadow
Sigh.
Thoraxe123
This is my favorite gif :) +1 to you sir
[deleted]
[deleted]
Demauscian
Nah, furries explaining science is enough.
wrincewind
Well, this was fantastic. Any chance of any more? :D
awesnaps
Do thorium reactors next!
superippednobody
Damn OP print this shit to be self published at your local comic shop!
Ringshadow
I need to redo it if I want to seriously pursue that. Clean it up and add a few things.
madwookie
The Physicist thanks you for this message.
TheBlackShakes
Second time's the charm, I guess. Congrats, OP!
Ringshadow
Yes indeed! HUZZAH!
ModusPonens
Well now you're just fission for upvotes
Cassiraa
You cut off your text when you were explaining about the radioactive glow. This legitimately saddens me.
NakedBears
I work for EDF in France. Im going to use this to explain nuclear power to my friends who are against my company! Great work thanks!
Ringshadow
Awesome! So jealous I'd love to expat to France someday! You're free to use the comic just give credit where it's due!
NakedBears
Don't worry I will. Thanks Man!
GloriousSpaceHamster
Damn this is a good post, thanks OP :)
GandalfTheUltraViolet
Funny and informative. I thought I was relatively educated, but there was a lot here I didn't know, so thank you :)
BatteryLife
It was a great read, thanks for posting
Ringshadow
Glad you liked it!
BatteryLife
Best explanation I've ever seen for this sort of thing
M1DDL3M4N
1) neat 2) what's that gif from?
Ringshadow
Disney movie called Atlantis: The Last Empire. Completely worth your time, one of the better Disney cartoons. less songs more explosions.
heywhatsthatthing
As an ex Navy Nuke, thank you.
Ringshadow
Thank you my canoe club brother!
lamejokester
Longest week of my life was taking all the CBT's to get unescorted access to site!
Ringshadow
OH GOD did you have to deal with that animated thing for respiratory protection?? That thing needs to die omg.
lamejokester
Yes! By far the worst CBT ever!
Ringshadow
It's like it's kinda fun the first time just because it's different and it wakes you up but after that oh hell no it's so slow aaaauuugh.
DHR000x
It took me 2 smoking breaks, one pooping time and whole lunch to read it, so worth it
Ringshadow
Thank you!
oblivioniscalling
This was awesome OP, and it was surprisingly easy to understand. You're an awesome teacher. Also, cat ears. +1
Ringshadow
I'm so glad you liked it! Thank you!
Ecne
that is awesome, almost finished reading :) i knew some of the stuff.. but it's so fun to read :) nicely done
HalloIamherenow
It's nice to see something educational on the front page explained in easy terms and entertaining graphics for once.
jtb1313
Epic work stories, please do more
KelluvaKobra
@Ringshadow I actually have a little video on my phone of cherenkov radiation making water glow from my brother who works in nuclear power 1
KelluvaKobra
@Ringshadow 2 if you would like to add it
LordoftheSevenKingdomsandProtectoroftheRealm
Top comment material as well, perhaps I can help a tiny bit
Atharaphelun
Meh. Nuclear power is so primitive. Zero-point modules are where it's at.
PsychopompGecko
SilveratusFur
Furry high five!
eggmuffin
Fahrenheit, though? Really?
Ringshadow
I'm a damn dirty American working on freedom units.
PiccPicceringtonVonChesterburgElderberryTheThirdEsquire
I am highly entertained and would like to subscribe to your monthly newsletter.
BusinessGrownUp
Favorited the last time, upvoted this time. You're doing God's work, OP. Love, OPS.
natedogg8393
This is fantastic.
Ringshadow
Thank you!
callmeLadyMoose
After reading the post, I've come to a realization. Nuclear power workers and those in the military have some really funny similarities.
Ringshadow
That's because a lot of our basis and a lot of our older workers came from Uncle Sam's Canoe Club.
callmeLadyMoose
Makes a lot of sense. It was fun to see the similarities after just getting off the canoe. You guys do a lot of hard work. Thanks!
callmeLadyMoose
Makes a lot of sense. It was fun to see the similarities after just getting off the canoe. You guys do a lot of hard work. Thanks!
Icreatedthislongnameinhopethatyouwouldreadit
At least part of this was posted before. Still good though.
ieaturfood
Anything is possible with a CANDU attitude!
ZimDaFox
First of all, FURRY HIGH FIVE YAAAAY :3 Second, I'd like to offer a bit of critique. Now, I have only read the first ten images because >
ZimDaFox
I am impatient, but for a layman's introduction, I think you use terminology that people might not understand (though I get that explaining>
ZimDaFox
everything would make this unbearably longer). What's a "mREM"? What is the number in U235? How is cold fusion different from fusion? >
ZimDaFox
I understand what these things (really), and I don't mean to underestimate the knowledge of people, but I fear that it might be confusing >
ZimDaFox
to those that actually don't know. That's my piece of critique. This is super neat, yay for furry works, and I'll finish it now :3
Ringshadow
o.0 I understand the confusion of mRem but if you don't get atomic numbering, bruh. That's like forth or fifth grade science shit.
ZimDaFox
So? You know this stuff because it interests you. Most people go on and forget things that don't interest them. Like, say, me forgetting >
GandalfTheUltraViolet
will be confused. Other than that, mind if I borrow this when I teach my class about radiation? (2)
GandalfTheUltraViolet
I remember it from way back then, but it's had nothing to do with my life since, and I barely understand it now. Zim's right, some people(1)
Ringshadow
Well. Eating some crow now I guess! *Rides to the Frontpage Doctor Strangelove style*
Illinest
Are you navy nuke? I was a nuke. It was a nice presentation.
Lionskull
It's bothering me that alpha is lower case and the rest are not.
PartyMagician
They are though, they're just big. Uppercase beta looks just like B, and uppercase gamma like this: Г
Lionskull
You're right, it's just weird seeing them not curvy.
Ringshadow
yeah it's not very standardized, sorry. When I drew this I did the entire thing in a month or so.
Lionskull
Actually I was wrong, they are all lower case. I was just confused because they weren't drawn curvily.
TheHudsonHawk
You. Dr Strangelove ref and all. Thank you. I fight this battle with peeps all the time. You are a valuable resource. Thank you so much.
kmikl
Dr. Strangelove fought a battle... against his left hand, but that's still a battle, right? \
tomyironmane
I think he meant like Slim Pickens... "YAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
kmikl
Major Kong... yep :)
FrostViking
Our Precious Essence!
wrincewind
Precious bodily fluids...
TheAwfulNene
Please can you make more of these?
Ringshadow
They kind of depend on stuff happening at work I can turn into a comic and feel safe talking about... I'm flattered tho!
TheAwfulNene
That's okay, I just figured that if you don't let someone know their stuff is desired, it won't happen. Do you draw on other subjects?
Ringshadow
Not as much as I used to. I used to have a detailed furry comic and some other stuff. http://ringshadow.deviantart.com/
Flatian
I will read it carefully a second time, but did you write something about nuclear waste? Here in Germany we have some issues with this shit.
spicastar
Everybody has issues with that shit. The long term solution has not been invented.
2fligh2high
Yes, but this post is only about the fun part of nuclear power!
JordiRebur
This post seems done for make people think that nuclear energy is safe. Its weird how seems to make its point because of its comic shape.
Ringshadow
This post is meant to explain the sheer physicality of PWRs and BWRs and some philosophy behind dealing with radiation. It is safe.
ahabeta
also uranium mining
Ringshadow
Look up French fuel recycling and waste handling. they're the experts.
Flatian
You mean those french who dumb less radioactive waste into the ocean without thinking about accumulation?
stevetehpirate
Coal power also produces radioactive waste (fly ash), 100x more radioactive waste, which is released into the air rather than safely stored.
stevetehpirate
Downvoting it doesn't make it any less true: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
StandardDeviant
And solar just captures all that harmful solar radiation and sends it into the homes of ordinary Americans.
stevetehpirate
Huh?
Jellynoodle
Tl:dr A furry works at a nuclear power plant.
Dreigiau
Is this really that surprising? furries tend to be better informed. Only natural that'd filter up, wouldn't you think?
DrGravitas
They are everywhere: /a/tCXMg?gallery
MornieAlantie
I would love a post about what went wrong and what went right in the three most well known disasters: chernobyl, TMI and fukushima.
endeavour1a
If you're into this, just go on a wiki spree, you won't be able to stop:)
IMadeThisOnlySoICouldUpvote
Bad planning, not following directions and old technology. Take your pick.
Peajayrawr
These are really hard to read. can you comment or somehow indicate what order to read these in?
NobodyTellHim
Muahahahaha! I will now randomly upvote and downdoot these posts to further the wackiness!!!
PsychopompGecko
It's amazing how unsafe things can be when people decide to get rid of the safety measures.
Ringshadow
The operators were seeing conflicting, confusing indications and misdiagnosed. By the time they realized what had happened... too late. 3)
Ringshadow
The steam was a PORV, venting off the pressurizer. the water shifted to chase the leak path. Water levels dropped. Reactor heated up. 2)
Dreigiau
PORV? not familiar with that one.
Ringshadow
>< D'oh, sorry, bad habit. Pressure Operated Release Valve.
Dreigiau
Ah, so it *was* an acronym for some kind of relief valve.
Ringshadow
TMI2: the unit tripped offline. A light in the control room indicated an open valve as shut. Open valve was venting steam out of primary.
CaffeinatedNecromancer
I second this! The explanations would be so much more informative if the little cat dude was giving them!
MornieAlantie
Haha you're browsing pretty far back lol
CaffeinatedNecromancer
Sometimes seeing what people who post cool stuff have liked helps fine more cool stuff that isn't on the front page
MornieAlantie
Ah, that makes sense.
LizardEnterprises
1/? While TMI was not good, it wasnt a disaster either. Average exposure to people living near the plant was 8 millirem, about a chest x-ray
LizardEnterprises
3/3 From living in Denver, or the 5 rem people like OP are allowed to get in a year. That's hardly a disaster IMO.
MornieAlantie
Yeah, I originally put disaster in quotes because I knew actual impact outside of the plant was next to nothing. But I didn't want to 1/2
MornieAlantie
be disrespectful to those who did get a much higher dose in Fukushima and Chernobyl. 2/2
LizardEnterprises
2/? With maximum exposure of about 100 millirem, or about 1/3 of an average yearly background dose. Compare that to the 80 millirem you get
Ringshadow
Chernobyl: Some uptight politically minded assholes decided they really didn't need those better emergency diesel generators 1)
Shaqwitz
Also Chernobyl didn't have the same level of containment structure over the reactor like is required in the United States.
Ringshadow
Yeah that metal shed totally was up to the task wasn't it.
RockYoWorld
Didn't the accident also happen because some workers were playing with the control rods because they were bored? My thermo prof said that
FuzzyX
Fission started,too fast. Idiots tried to return control rods but too hot & they broke. Out of control reaction. Hydrogen build up. Blew.2/2
endeavour1a
Rods didn't break until first explosion. They were badly designed. Just read it on wiki instead of spreading misinformation.
FuzzyX
I did read on wiki a few years ago. OK they were warped by the heat and still could not retract. Push up design, not fall down.
FuzzyX
Plant was offline for maintenance, ordered back online. Cold start problem. Idiots overrode safety systems, fully retracted control rods.1/2
SanyaNya
Nope, it was during a test and some parts (and procedures) failed and couldn't be saved because of (see above). Wiki is very good for this.
Ringshadow
Actually the operators were ordered by their supervisor to remove more control rods than procedurally allowed. They didn't want to.
Ringshadow
That decision forced a test to come about that was not designed for a reactor. They then operated that reactor dangerously. It got upset. 2)
TheAwfulNene
"It got upset" is the best understatement. The design is unstable at low power. Trying to power out of an iodine pit was incalcuably stupid
Ringshadow
Obviously agreed.
SanyaNya
You should probably edit these or something, the are a bit scrambled by upvotes and it seems this one goes to Fukushima...
endeavour1a
Most probably Chernobyl.
Ringshadow
whoopsies.
Ringshadow
Fukushima: Earthquake that nearly snapped Japan in half caused tsunami that swamped the plant and took the emergency generators away.
DarthFutuza
That's actually not even the main reason. A lot of corners were cut that had they actually followed industry requirements and standards 1/2
DarthFutuza
2/2 The Tsunami wouldn't have been a problem since the generators would have never flooded. But they cut corners and screwed japan over.
census2011
Just a note. Fukushima reactor was sc rammed. It lost the ability to stay cool after it was offline. Residual decay heat fucks shit up.
Ringshadow
Yep, much like TMI.
MornieAlantie
I am loving the direct, to the point, have to fit into 140 character segment descriptions lol. Thanks for the replies!
Ringshadow
TMI2 caused the entire training of reactor operators to change, particularly in relation to the diagnosis of problems!
MornieAlantie
Haha, I'll bet. Weird to me since I've heard no people were really hit with a significant amount of radiation.
DarthFutuza
In summary: Every problem was caused by humans doing things they shouldn't have. This is my #1 concern with nuclear, how to eliminate 1/2
DarthFutuza
2/2 the human element. If you put humans in charge of a plant, someone's going to make a mistake eventually.
DarkEagle2009
Yes, but radically less than the incredibly dangerous practices that accompany other viable power sources (mining and drilling).
DarthFutuza
Most renewables (solar and wind) have practically no risks. Perhaps Geothermic would.
DarkEagle2009
Which is why I said "viable". Despite the advances, none of the renewables have the ability to produce enough energy for widespread use.
illuminaticurse
With most reactors there are automatic safety features that bring reactors to safe levels. In the navy, my plant would need to have 1/2
illuminaticurse
Multiple mechanical, electric, and software failures to happen simultaneously in order for something remotely bad to happen. 2/2
DarthFutuza
That depends on it being initially built correctly without cutting corners and actually maintaining those features properly. No guarantees.
illuminaticurse
And "threshold" of the system. We use dye, x-ray, and ultrasound just to test welds. There are a great many redundancies in nuclear power. 2
illuminaticurse
Which is why there is "death by power point" for people operating and multiple inspections and pressure tests well over operating pressure 1
Ringshadow
o.0 I feel the need to point out Fukushima was not caused by humans.
DarthFutuza
Not directly, but the disaster could have been prevented and the dangers of tsunami's had been pointed out and ignored by TEPCO.
Ringshadow
A higher sea wall would have saved them some agony. Another plant with a higher sea wall was spared.
DarthFutuza
Yeah that's part of it, there was something else about the way they had the emergency backup power/generators setup that was screwy too1
DarthFutuza
2but it's been too long since I researched, I don't remember all of the details. I remember something about ignoring safety inspect probms.
CanadianSwordFighter
We had a discussion about CANDUs last time you posted this. I'm glad you posted it again. I enjoyed reading it.
tomyironmane
Ringshadow
I was actually in the viewing gallery when that happened. Had a multi-camera view to the freakout and a front seat to the phonecalls/yelling
tomyironmane
Only thing I have comparable to that is listening to an officer get his ass chewed during safety checks... on an artillery range.
illuminaticurse
We had an enlisted guy tell off an officer that was going to cause an incident due to his "order" in our plant. He thought he was god's 1/2
illuminaticurse
Gift to nuclear power... He changed is mind about his "order" after said tongue lashing. It was glorious.
tomyironmane
... which EVERYONE could hear. Then he called him back to Range Control for a PROPER ass chewing. Witnesses claim it was like watching a DI.
tomyironmane
In my case, the RSO told the Forward Observer officer "You better pull your head outta your ass" over range control freq....
nuclearpotatoDK
My thoughts were that the only problem about nuclear power, is how you dispose of the radioactive waste?
supremacysun
Toss it into the Sun
Ringshadow
Depends how hot it is and how long it'll last.
mibango
So the worst case? And how much amounts all waste
Ringshadow
Worst case is cold fuel, and it'll just be constantly interred until recycling. Or hot resin, which I believe is permanent storage.
mibango
Interred where? And how? How long? Youre ignoring all those questions which makes me believe you are a paid agent...
Ringshadow
Fuel is stored on site. Recycling is currently not a thing in the USA, we'd like it to be. We ship hot resin out to private companies.
2fligh2high
Permanent storage, I heard some waste requires 100.000 years of permanent storage. I'm not sure us hoomans are responsible enough for that.
teratrain
yeah, screw this nerd for not being able to thoroughly explain nuclear waste disposal in 140 characters
KeyboardChap
Why don't you Google it?
Ringshadow
Nuclear waste is handled by private companies who do that thing professionally. The majority of it is shipped off site.
Lonecoon
Yay! Radiation! Is it true that cherenkov radiation is essentially a sonic boom for light?
ChewSoap
Nuclear engineer here! Yep, you pretty much got it. It's a little different if you wanna get really technical, but that's a good start.
whyteraven74
Yeah that works as an analogy
DrBuckarooBanzai
Kinda. It's what happens when a particle travels faster than light in a particular medium, like water, but slower than light in a vacuum
khora
Optic boom.
Ringshadow
Sssorta? That's above my paygrade honestly, I just know it as the blue glow in the fuel pool/reactor pool.
ChewSoap
Nuclear engineer here, feel free to forward me any questions you need help answering!
blackguard89
PLEASE TELL US THAT OP IS LYING AND YOU CAN GET SUPER POWERS.
ChewSoap
Well...errr...depends if you classify uncontrollable growth of cells as a superpower?
blackguard89
Comics have lied to me. My last hope of humanity fades then. *single tear going down on one cheek*
Lonecoon
That's like regeneration right? HOORAY SUPER POWERS!
SocietyOfSensation
That sounds like superpowers...or cancer. More like cancer actually :-(
blackguard89
I find it amusing that even though you know a lot about this stuff, you still called that "the blue glow in the fuel pool/reactor pool".
Ringshadow
SCIENCE THING MAKE MONEY AND RADIATION
blackguard89
TOO MUCH RADIATION NO GOOD. IT NO GIVE SUPERPOWERS, JUST HEADACHES DISEASES AND PROBABLY DEATH!
Ringshadow
RELAX IT IS VERY HARD TO BE EXPOSED TO THAT KIND OF RADIATION
Dreigiau
Yes. It's radiation entering a substance at a speed above the speed of light (for that substance!) and suddenly slowing down. The 1/2
Dreigiau
light you see is energy given off as the radiation slows down to that substance's speed of light 2/2
Dreigiau
light you see is energy given off as the radiation slows down to that substance's speed of light 2/2
CaptainSpeedo
You should add that light travels ~25% slower in water. That's why stuff can travel faster than light here without surpassing ~300000km/s.
Dreigiau
Yup, it's only speed of light in a vacuum that's a hard limit
archbishopdan
"Alpha gon fuck you up bruh. It's got basically zero range but with a +2 charge it will ionize all your shit." - @Ringshadow
CarassiusAuratus
@WallpaperQuotes
Ringshadow
Gunna steal all your electrons bruh.
Argyle4prem
No it isn't. It's easily stopped by paper or skin. I learneded that today because of you! Kind Regards, Layman.
Ringshadow
:D Yay
AllIHaveHadTodayIsLikeSixGummyBearsAndSomeScotch
To be fair, it steals your skins electrons. Skin just don't give a fuck cause skin is dead.
CaptainSpeedo
Just try not to inhale.
TheSisko
I may have missed this in the comics, but what about nuclear waste?
DavidMcFarland
The trick is getting anti-nuke know-nothings to not be afraid of things they don't understand, then we can deal with it safely.
mibango
Obviously didnt mention it. That's how propaganda works
Housemaster
Ringshadow
Not touched upon in this comic. Should also have talked about contamination vs radiation. What kind of waste? High or low?
tomyironmane
And when you say things like this 99% of people go "uhhh" because to the media, the only thing worse than nuclear reactors is nuclear waste.
Ringshadow
You can buy nuclear waste at any local antique shop. Look for fiestaware in orange or yellow, or uranium glass.
tomyironmane
That wasn't nuclear waste, they had to stop making the color in '43 when their glaze was taken for the Manhattan Project.
DarthFutuza
You should also address (in the future), what possible solutions can be done to eliminate the human element that often causes problems.
cTrix
This comic is very pro-nuclear. Note how he mentions radiation and then distracts the reader by talking about something unrelated
yesiamaphysicist
Very little is produced. A long term storage facility is still needed in the US, but there is short term storage for several decades.
TheSisko
Please define "very little".
yesiamaphysicist
http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHomeWasteFromNuclearPower
yesiamaphysicist
A 1000 MW reactor produces 30 tonnes per year of spent fuel if not reprocessed. An equivalent coal plant produces 30,000 tonnes of ash.
TheSisko
Won't there be a point where we no longer have the capacity to store spent fuel?
yesiamaphysicist
storage, so effectively limitless. Reprocessing of fuel drops the amount of waste that needs to be stored significantly. But the best /3
yesiamaphysicist
getting them built mostly due to politics and ignorance. If those are built there's enough storage for centuries, if not more. Meanwhile, /2
yesiamaphysicist
cask storage is safe for at least a few decades. If a cask starts failing, you can always transfer to a new cask. That's above ground /3
yesiamaphysicist
Yes and no. Deep geological repositories are permanent storage facilities for long-lived waste, but there are issues in many countries /1
yesiamaphysicist
solution is thorium reactors. They produce effectively no long-lived waste and can use long-lived waste from other reactors as fuel. /4
spicastar
Several decades will help a lot when the stuff is toxic for 100,000 years. That willynillyness of nuclear suporters really bugs me
tomyironmane
No, it's only toxic in certain chemical compounds. The word you're looking for is radioactive.
melwil
Short term storage for several decades while proper long term storage can be researched and implemented. That's not willy nilly.
2fligh2high
Reactors have been around a long time and long term storage should be researched? As in making it up as you go along? That is willy nilly.
CaptainSpeedo
Yeah, producing power for the moment but leaving behind stuff to take care of for thousands of generations. How nice!
melwil
Considering the rather small ramafications of that, I'd say it's a great idea. The other options of "on demand" energy are better, hm?
yesiamaphysicist
That's why long term storage for the US is being worked on. It's just stuck in bureaucratic hell right now.
3dmac
Thorium!
NotAnotherFuckingDalek
Son of Thrainium!
Smayds
Lokium!
MOTHERFUCKINGVIRGINMARY
Odinium!
Odin1i
Whats all this then?
Ringshadow
I'm withholding opinion until I see a thorium reactor run in the black in a country I trust. France or Japan, really.
bobjacobsom
Werent CANDU reactors originally designed to run on thorium? I cant remember where i read something like that. Nuclear is the answer for now
yas4000
What about the Lockheed Compact fusion generators, they get me excited as an aspiring nuclear engineer.
bobjacobsom
This seemed like such a ridiculous idea, like the guy building a warp drive in his garage. But its Lockheed, so there must be some truth.
[deleted]
[deleted]
LetumComplexo
They have a plan but the materials required don't exist yet and there is no chance of generating more power than it used with current tech.
cdillon42
Still need a neutron supply thorium equals 1.2 neutrons I believe, not enough to sustain criticality
bluemofia
Last I checked (5 years ago), Thorium generates 1 neutron per reaction, so it is impossible to meltdown. They get the extra neutrons (1/2)
bluemofia
via proton spallation by bombarding lead (or other high mass nuclei) with a particle accelerator to shatter them for neutrons. (2/2)
bluemofia
(3/2) Note: these were according to several proposed methods using Th232 + n -> Pa233 -> U233 and using U233 as the fissile fuel.
MakTheInfinity
A one-off research reactor could hardly be called financial disaster. The whole "no dangerous waste" thing makes it worth developing.
StandardDeviant
And "not able to be weaponized"
Arteuss
I'd just like to add this: fusion is not just on the sun or in micro-environments on earth, we have H-bombs, just no COLD fusion
BolshajaSvinja
Also other stars.
yesiamaphysicist
Don't forget Tokomaks and inertial/magnetic confinement.
ExTechOp
Unfortunately, there's not much to discuss as of yet, but looking forward to it: https://www.iter.org/
yesiamaphysicist
I worry unexpected issues will come up, making the experiment useless, like what happened to NIF.
astamurti
ITER hasn't been going so well. Over budget and behind schedule the whole way.
Ultrabutts
I think we are talking about sustained and useful things. Not really big lab experiments that have been going on for 50 years.
yesiamaphysicist
Look up ITER and NIF. Both have a goal of studying how to set up controlled fusion power plants.
Ultrabutts
I'm familiar with both. Point remains.
yesiamaphysicist
They have not been running for 50 years and are useful. They hope to be sustainable.
astamurti
There are a few better choices to look into for fusion research than those two. They have... issues.
yesiamaphysicist
Such as? All fusion research has "issues".
Ringshadow
Well pardon me for not wanting to associate bombs with my discussion on power sources.
stevetehpirate
Lawrence Livermore Labs is making slow and steady progress in the arena of fusion power. So it is happening, it just kinda sucks right now.
Ringshadow
If you put more energy into it than you get out of it it don't count.
stevetehpirate
Sucks = Sucks Energy. Occasionally they can recapture the energy they put in, but for now it's not what I would call a success.
Arteuss
Understandable, but it was a misleading statement, you don't want to be mis-quoted now!
AllIHaveHadTodayIsLikeSixGummyBearsAndSomeScotch
Wasn't there a breakthrough using very cold hydrogen pellets and high-powered lasers? Something about net power gain.
stevetehpirate
Progress is slow but continuous http://www.wired.com/2014/02/fusion-power-not-yet/
astamurti
Yeah, NIF's project is a bit of a joke. There are some better candidates out there though.
Dreigiau
TMI2= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accidenta> "plane test" http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/20/national/20NUKE.html
Dreigiau
CANDU = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANDU_reactor
donut77
Cheers, i was googling tm12 and couldn't find shit.
AeonQuasars
TM12 is Taunt, Water gun, or Sweet Scent, depending on the generations. :P
Ringshadow
*upvotes all your links!
Dreigiau
feel free to throw up corrections if I screwed something up. Had to google IDLH and CANDU, I'll admit
Ringshadow
IDLH is an industrial safety/OSHA thing, I admit. And CANDUs are just weird and fascinating. They refuel while online. Neat.
MonteBurns
Our college intramural team was "No CANDU" since the US doesn't have any. yuck yuck yuck :D
Dreigiau
also, ty
Dreigiau
IDLH = "Immediately dangerous to life and health", e.g. a pure N2, He, or Ar environ. OH = Hydroxyl, the compound that makes things "basic"
Dreigiau
note: reactors won't normally use Ar (argon) except for shutdown-only things. It become radioactive too easily.
Dreigiau
U-238 = Uranium atom, with 238 protons and neutrons (total) in the nucleus. this one is stable.
Dreigiau
"basic" = opposite of acidic (breaks down organic compounds well, while acidic likes to eat metals). H = free hydrogen atom (also bad)
Dreigiau
H+ eventually combines with H20 to make H30+ (Hydroxyl) which makes things acidic, but H3O+ can *eventually* trade with OH- to make two H2O
Dreigiau
mRem = milli (1/1000 or .001) Rem (Roentgen equivalent, man), it's a measure of radiation in terms of damage to the body. 1 Rem=1000mRem
Dreigiau
1 Rem is considered a lot to get because we rarely get that much, but has pretty much zero effect on your health.
Dreigiau
SONGS= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station
MonteBurns
SONGS makes me so sad :( but an alien show told me the aliens got it shut down because CA is supposed to have a massive earthquake soon...
MonteBurns
(and no, not joking. That is really what they proposed.)
Dreigiau
Wait, is that supposed to be before or after the volcano in San Fran?
MonteBurns
I'd assume the earthquake causes the volcano
Dreigiau
but don't volcanoes normally cause earthquakes?
Maximumerhamster
If I'm radioactive then where are my super powers?
Demauscian
Do you eat ice cream? If you are not lactose intolerant then you sir are a mutant with a super power.
Ringshadow
Everything is radioactive including bananas! It does not make you special! :D
lostparanoia
Hah! If that's true, why have I never seen a banana wearing a cape?