Ravenclawlady
528208
25893
1982
Oct 4, 2016 1:06 AM
Ravenclawlady
528208
25893
1982
atlasman831
Wow, really, only the Sith deal in absolutes...
YouCapturedMe
I can't wait to read all the civil comments with a 140 character cap that this discussion will bring.
Summersky
You shut your mouth! I LOVE ICE CREAM AND YOU WILL NEVER STOP M-oh. hm. sorry wrong Inciting Violence thread.
InboxMeWhatYouLove
I can't contain my civility after reading this. So much pain people have to go through just because of some people's belief.
remix96
Nobody likes abortion. Nobody gets one for shits and giggles
MajikMessiah
I really feel for people who have to go through this. If you are in this situation, I just want you to know you are loved.
buttermyarse
And that your baby and your grief matters. Too many women are told to 'get over it' when losing a baby, as if it doesn't count or something.
NewGoat
This is why we need more comprehensive sex education in this country. So women/men don't have to feel shame, suffer and possibly die.
SturmFalke101
If I had to get an abortion for my own medical reasons, I'd feel like complete fucking shit. Grateful to be alive though.
buttermyarse
Me too. I would be devastated. In fact, my friend didn't 'want' a baby (years ago, too young) and she was STILL devastated afterwards.
DanIsmaielail
It hurts so much reading this. People don't understand. Everyone has his own reasons! Always pro-choice
ISeriouslyLoveBlueCircles
My mother had to do an abortion, because the child would've probably died right after she was born. Now I've got a sister, healthy, happy 1/
ISeriouslyLoveBlueCircles
Always brighting up my day. She is just pure happiness and cuteness. I really love her and I'm glad my mom tried again. 2/2
ArionBaratheon
There's been a guy protesting outside Planned Parenthood for the past week, maybe I'll print this out and give it to him on my way to work
lacydawnn
Please do. People like him won't truly know what it's like unless we show them.
BigPookie320038
I learned in catholic school an abortion was allowed if the mothers life would be saved.
Vachii
Same for me, UK Catholic school, abortions are not considered sins if the baby has little chance to live and the mother would definitely die
KrushingKobra
Unfortunately that's not the position of the Catholic Church.
melveys
Yes, the church believes every child has a soul from the moment of conception and is a whole and individual person with their own value but
melveys
Individual priests and bishops have been known to okay it when it comes to endangering the mother's life or an ectopic pregnancy.
thundercactus
Unfortunately not every catholic church is even on the same page.
papasmurf1118
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's not my understanding. (1/?)
papasmurf1118
The Catholic Church is more hierarchical and the interpretations of gospel and doctrine do not always leave as much freedom as they do (2/?)
papasmurf1118
in forms of Protestantism, like Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. (3/3)
thundercactus
It's not a fault of the religion, but a fault of people. What the bible *doesn't* say is sometimes filled in with personal opinion.
BigPookie320038
So from my standpoint, those people murdered that woman
JamBarn
Or they don't exist at all and it's a completely made up collection of stories people posted on Tumblr.
vois
Are dead pregnant women from viral news stories also made up by tumblr people?
JamBarn
hypothetical ones like the ones you've made up on the spot right here? no, imgur people. don't be a jackass.
MisterGunpowder
Funny. I could tell you the same.
Shohanna
Not to mention we have the fucking HIGHEST mortality in pregnant women in the world. Makes me sick.
SamuraiBatgirl
This is kind of what I was thinking. The mother dying because of her child is extremely rare, and Tumblr has been known to fabricate stories
Shohanna
Extremely rare, is till more then 100,000 in the US. IS that acceptable? Or not? B/c you couldn't tell it by the comments in this thread.
SamuraiBatgirl
I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking if I think it's okay to abort when the mother's life is in danger, then yes.
catastrophicClara
Just read a bit into the topic, ectopic pregnancies and similar stuff happens. I know three couples who were in a similar situation, and /1
SamuraiBatgirl
I'm sorry to hear that. I still don't believe anything that's said on Tumblr. Also, I have read about the topic. Have a good day, yo.
catastrophicClara
That are just those who were comfortable sharing it with me/my family, so probably even more.
DavosSeaworthTheOnionKnight
Catholics are more liberal in -Most- things then evangelicals.
CamelSpotter
Things have gotten even more lax with the latest pope's given stance on certain topics.
BigPookie320038
Also nice username. I just started season 4.
HereInDuckburg
Catholics are SUPER liberal
papasmurf1118
In my experience, Catholics are a wild-card. They can be either. It depends more on where you live.
HereInDuckburg
Im talkimg about catholic teachings themselves. Very liberal
HereInDuckburg
Source : born and raised catholic in a predominantly catholic town.
Omeganeo
Dont claim your experience is the same as everyone else's. My mother is a strict catholic, raised by catholic parents, she would agree with
BigPookie320038
Really? (Not trying to sound smart I literally didn't know that)
Shohanna
Yes, really. JFK. Evangelicals are who made the laws in the USA and we even have Separation of church and state. But that didn't stop them.
EccentricNimoy
"marriage of faith and politics" is what it's called now, John McCain..
TheyHunger
It's a mixed bag, but traditionally they have been *fairly* progressive.
catastrophicClara
Funny in Germany it's usually the other way around?
Cal1te
That last story is why I always hold my privacy in highest regard, even if I "have nothing to hide".
szepasszony
Scary that the right to privacy seems to be slipping away, with little protest.
Cal1te
Indeed. Its fucking terrifying. Reminds me of one of the scenes in star wars "So this is how liberty dies, in thunderous applause" there 1/2
szepasszony
The politics of fear in a a nutshell. "Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security" -B.Franklin
Cal1te
are far to many, mainly in the west, who are ready and willing to just GIVE away the rights that our ancestors fought for. 2/2
MediaMuerte
I'm conflicted because I hate giving women the right to choose but I'm pro baby murder
mcof
Ah, you're looking for forced abortions for eugenic purposes. Three rooms down. Grab a name badge and a lab coat on your way in.
NulHeart
And take the coat hanger with you... We will be using it
RobertEmmet
Ahhh, gallows humor. Always there when I want to laugh but I'm sobbing uncontrollably
SamuelArk
Mandatory abortions for everyone! Abort the men! Abort the women! Abort the children! Make america abort again!
charliegrs
I mean why are people so sad about this? How well could you have known a kid that wasnt even born yet?
MediaMuerte
How well could you have known those children we drone strike?
thesecantallbetaken
I'm not pro-life but I could see the family developing hopes and expectations for the future. It's devastating to have those crushed.
spudilicious
The life of a person only has value if they are "known"?
MikeMcAwesome91
Needed this after reading that awful shitstorm.
Deltanmusic
Thank you for lightening the mood.
carebearsandstares
Me too, I hate giving people the right to murder, because hey its their body, they can kill other people with it.
smooshiebanana
If the child is already dead, it is not an abortion...The pregnancy has already been terminated. You are simply cleaning it out safely.
redjay12
Worked at a hospital- miscarriages are called spontaneous abortions- scares are called threatened abortion
heterocera
The technical term is abortion.
snarflex
"Spontaneous abortion." It's the difference between dying and being killed.
InitHello
Interestingly, the Norwegian word for miscarriage translates to "spontaneous abortion"
complimentpin
still fucked up to see
diregamer
I am so glad this is a drawing and not the real thing. Good lord, I don't need to actually see that.
SoManyWhales2
Tell that to the "pro-lifers"
confanity
Yes, but try to tell that to rabid anti-choice assholes.
colinkarr
I'm pro-life and oppose all abortions. We have a problem with killing living human beings, not with extracting already-dead humans.
confanity
You don't seem to have been listening to what some of your fellows are saying about certain procedures.
colinkarr
Well then I disagree with them. I don't know of any major prolife organization/political figure that thinks this way.
confanity
Then you don't know much about the movement you claim to be part of.
PineappleApplepine
But the child WASN'T dead yet, it was going to be.
MetalTao
Not everyone knows it tho. Having to pull a dead baby out of yah? Too many are to think badly of you.
InsertOriginalUsernameHere
If the (usually) religious right actually cared about science or reality, they would probably cease to exist.
zma123456
I like what the guy said that these people are anti-women and anti-family. This is why I believe conservatives are bunch of lying dicks.
CirclejerqueDuSoleil
I consider myself pretty liberal, but calling all conservatives a bunch of lying dicks is not accurate or okay.
thundercactus
Believe it or not, political alignment doesn't actually have any correlation to how good of a person someone is.
LiamardoTheGreatest
You prove yourself to be the wrong kind of liberal with broad judgments. Congrats.
skwerl
Health care professionals will still call that an abortion. It's a therapeutic abortion rather than an elective abortion. Same surgery.
snarflex
Treatment afterward isn't an abortion since it's already occurred. (2/2)
skwerl
Therapeutic abortion is to remove a fetus that could endanger a mother's health. A dead fetus that doesn't pass can become an infection.
snarflex
Untrue. The miscarriage itself--which happens without medical intervention--is called "spontaneous abortion." (1/2)
skwerl
The word abortion refers to fetal death as well as the procedure to remove the fetus. Not all spontaneous abortions pass on their own.
skwerl
Spontaneous abortion is the death of the fetus. When the remains do not pass, it's called a missed abortion.
DarkUranium
So most of these are missed spontaneous abortions?
TheDarkLordOfTrees
And still requires access to an abortion clinic
ValoSaurusRex
I know someone who's fetus died and they made her carry it the last 3 weeks till her "due date". Shes emotionally scarred for life.
magisch
If there is a god, these people will go to hell for it.
yourstruly0
The same thing happened to my mother. She's not a well person these days, for many reasons. At that point he wasn't a baby, but a parasite.
Textuality
That's seriously messed up. :(
murpmurple
That happened to my cousin's wife. She had to carry a dead baby inside her for a week. Our family was furious.
Shohanna
Yup, my mom got toxic shock syndrome and nearly died. Made her carry the last 3 months. Fucking stupid! She is scared for life too.
DailyShepherdPicture
That's just disgusting the woman should sue those pigs a pregnancy shouldnt scar you for life my god
Shohanna
Abortion wasn't legal when my 2nd baby brother died in the womb at 6 months.
DarkUranium
Man, I love the fact that I live the country where abortion is a *constitutional* right. Of course, the church keeps trying to remove it.
Shohanna
My Mother did this in the US, before Roe vs. Wade. There was not abortion here then.
DailyShepherdPicture
i just cant get that something that can save a valuable life is illegal thats like making it illegal to have a heart transplant
SilentScript
Yeah this post is a bit misinforming but at the same time right for some people. This is probably more geared to those who are 100% against.
Cac2008
It's written for the audience, they are preaching to the choir.
ThermiteKitten
The last story is explicitly about a baby that wasn't dead and survived for a bit after birth though.
Shohanna
So you like to see babies in pain?! You would treat your pet better then that baby? Did you think this one through?
SilentScript
It's not worth it if the baby will have serious problems or the mother/baby is at serious risk.
SilentScript
I'm pro-life personally but if there is any serious health complications (most are) that will arise then abort the baby. 1/2
Darlingk08
2 hours is not surviving. If there is no reasonable expectation for a full life why put a mother through it especially if it risks her life?
ThermiteKitten
Never argued for it, just said that there is content here for the pro-life crowd to debate about if they'd like.
thundercactus
That is some shakespearean level drama.
IOnlyPostDogs
Doesn't really make a good argument. Most pro-lifers I met are pro-choice in the cases above.
thundercactus
I think that pro-life tends to be more about teen/unexpected pregnancy more than medically required abortions.
Cac2008
I'm a catholic pro lifer, but would never campaign for banning... Precisely because of cases described above. Plus I'm not to judge.
SilentScript
Yeah but according to statistics done in march of this year in the US 15-20% still believe it should be illegal all the time.
thundercactus
Could be said that 15-20% of people haven't experienced this situation through a family member. Experience tends to change perspective.
Darlingk08
unfortunately experience doesn't change willful ignorance
lastminute
Makes me wonder if it's a reading comphrension problem. I've just never met any of them..not a single one.
SilentScript
Thing is this isn't something that just comes up like talking politics. It's a more sensitive issue that some people won't even talk about.
snarflex
That's why this post is what we call a "strawman." I've never heard anyone on either side of the debate denying treatment of miscarriages.
skwerl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
skwerl
http://wonkette.com/590056/miscarrying-lady-almost-dies-at-catholic-hospital-but-at-least-she-didnt-get-an-abortion
skwerl
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/michigan-catholic-hospital-women-miscarriage-abortion-mercy-health-partners
NotAMeatPopsicle
Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have heard both arguments.
Starcatcher1986
One of planned parenthood's crucial functions is treatment of miscarriages.
Starcatcher1986
...I don't really have to spell this one out further, do I? All those people trying to close PP are taking away women's access to treatment.
skwerl
And PP does so much more than just abortions.
bpt2
they also do fertility assistance so people protest those trying to be pregnant
TheyHunger
I have.
jepplax
and you never hearing of something meaning it doesn't exist is called what?
Starcatcher1986
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
HighlandPotatoe
As someone who had to give birth to a 20 week abortion last week... This.
caffienatedtactician
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you get all the love and support you need.
HighlandPotatoe
I can thankfully say with our NHS I felt so loved and suported going through the whole process. They all knew he was a wanted and loved baby
MysteriousLeigh
Hugs.
Cheomesh
You have my empathy. My wife had to go through a similar thing and it wasn't great watching her.
HighlandPotatoe
Thank you for being there for her, despite how helpless you felt during, be there for each other.
Cheomesh
Yep, we have always been for each other for the whole time we've been together.She miscarried once and it was even worse than pill abortion!
GeneralBuzzkil
We all need a little cheering up after this
MysteriousLeigh
Username does not check out.
GeneralBuzzkil
Im not trying to diminish the message, but I know some people need a little pick me up after that.
EccentricNimoy
Username checks out ! ;)
allotherusernamestaken89
Fuck Poland's government. They're planning a total ban on abortions. 5 yrs in jail for anyone who's had one. Jail for doctors too.
[deleted]
[deleted]
CasuallyMasturbatingInPublic
Jesus fuck, really?
lastminute
FYI the US is the minority http://www.lifenews.com/2013/08/04/u-s-is-one-of-four-nations-to-allow-late-term-abortions-for-any-reason/
lastminute
I wish the government would stay out of it. This is between a woman her doctor, period.
bagxofxbones
can people outside of Poland (and similarly governed countries) do anything to help? I'm passionately pro choice and I hate being helpless
KeeleonOhms
If the argument against abortion is that it's murder, doesn't 5 years seem kind of light for murdering a baby? It either is or it isnt.
flowseeker
Their governments approval rating dropped to like 29% after this proposal so it's really unlikely that the bill will pass.
Bugleisthebomb
Enjoy your increased crime rate Poland
quintusfontane
Mmmm, Catholicism. Isn't it grand...
deamonsatwar
God can you imagine the amount of women that are going to have to travel to smother country just to abort?
YoungJackZer0
Thank God Germany isn't that far off. They will be able to get an abortion there. Interesting: unwanted children and crime are connected.
wormfood
Whaaaaaaat
SlagathaChristie
Backstreet abortionists are the only people who will profit from this.
vois
And catholic conscience
ThugCat
I wish people would remember Romania's adventures in Overplanned Parenthood with Decree 770. Google it kids. It's a legit horror movie.
Mlatimudan
That is why Hitler went there first
galadrl2meetu
Florida, too.
Unverified
A lot more people on welfare too
Iamyourcaptainnow
Religious nut-jobs. Or in other words: extremists.
NorseGod222
Not everyone who opposes abortion is religious or a nut job.
Sublimesymmetry
Every person who opposes abortion is ignorant, or a nut job.
ronnyhugo
Laws don't work backwards in time, its the ones that do them in the future that would be jailed, not everyone who ever did them in the past.
highevolutionary
Looks like someone needs some invasion. *sips tea*
grumpyzuza
As a Polish girl, yes fuck them!
Himgurian
But not literally! That could complicate things...
grumpyzuza
shhh ;)
FANGSUP7
Shoulda just let Hitler do his thing smh.
Utopist
Yes. We need to make Hitler and Nazis great again. F u and your shitty comment.
SnackusShackus
Well now no ones gonna want to invade Poland. Fuck Poland, let's go to France.
KeeleonOhms
Use protection if you fuck Poland tho...
Darkspire
@Germany
OneNeoEon
Someone should start a non-profit foundation to help women immigrate to other places in the EU. Poland will have a change of heart if 1/2
OneNeoEon
lose a large percentage of their female population. 2/2
Utopist
This should be a lesson to US. People snoozed last election there so check if you're registered now and vote.
fancypantspanda
Rictavius
Polish women should fight and fight hard to tell them to make small government STAY small government.
orangechocolate
yea, there was a protest yesterday in my city of Poznań. At the end of it police came violently broke it up
llortamai
"Protect fetuses, hurt those carrying them"
vois
Basically the motto of prolifers
LADYZORRO
Men in government shouldn't be making decisions for women PERIOD.
gazellemeat
lol
Kamasu0Tra
Do you feel the same way about women in Government positions making decisions about/for men?
danishjuggler21
You mean the country that puts screen doors on their submarines?
AintYouGuysGonnaAskAboutMyHat
I see you working, and i appreciate it.
llortamai
There are two things I can't stand: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
hulk78
How do you come up with the fact that they are planning a total ban on abortions? No clue but fuck Poland right?
orangechocolate
it's called the news
ElPoloDiablo
Well look, I'm Polish and I'd be quite happy to watch the country get sanctioned to death for its invasions on human rights. Fuck, its 1/2
ElPoloDiablo
invasions on its very PRINCIPLES. The first constitution of Poland, something we're proud of, makes it clear that state and Church 2/3
ElPoloDiablo
be completely separate. This also isn't the only human rights failure those pricks are performing.
hulk78
Has the law been implemented? Was it the government that proposed it? Are there other EU countries that already have such laws?
vois
The law is being voted on and people protest. It was a religious group that proposed it. Only Ireland has such strict laws.
ElPoloDiablo
The abortion laws are already the some of the strictest in Europe, and the current leading party has a complete majority in Sejm. 1/2
ElPoloDiablo
Besides this isn't really the first violation on their part. They're currently trying to remove the constitutional court.
IAmArthurKingOfTheBritains
upvoted your comment for awareness
xybolt
My main concern is that if the ban is enforced that illegal abortion happens, which is more unsafe than legalized abortion treatment. (1/3)
[deleted]
[deleted]
TheNipplerCrippler
That's adorable you said that with incomplete sentences and grammar. I didn't even need to say anything to disprove you, you did that
freyjaboo
Sheesh it was auto correct. The majority of the time abortions are not done for medical reasons or rape or incest. It's 'convenience'.
kojenk
Don't worry, the rich get their safe on the side abortions. its the poor who die with broken families.
EccentricNimoy
Separate economy, legal system and "morals"
Goronhead
This is why I'm pro-choice. I don't like the idea of abortions, but they will happen whether they're legal or not.
Goronhead
Better to be able to do it safely.
ForlornFennec
But it lets them say there's no official abortions being done. They already pretend the unofficial ones don't exist, after all.
vois
I once debated a prolifer who told me it's ok to ban abortion because if somebody really wants it they can get it in another country 1/2
vois
(we're Polish), it was kind of this dirty "so I don't have to see it" mentality 2/2
xybolt
This leads to a more risk for the mother which has an unwanted child. Yet conservative (and/or religious) minded people doesn't pay (2/3)
xybolt
attention to what happens with the mother and the newborn child.Abortion became legal in my country (Belgium) but not without many problems
definit3lynotacop
The King had to be declared incapable to rule for a day so the law could pass
xybolt
More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Belgium
LazyTheAssCat
That's actually a really interesting move by Boudewijn. Managing to fulfill his role as a king and a catholic.
LazyTheAssCat
I am not religious myself, but its neat to see how people manage to balance their own convictions. heh, it sounds like a book 1/
LazyTheAssCat
"how to be a good king and catholic", I'd read it. Anyway, Back to the point; interesting event that. Thanks for sharing.
FPAwperbad
tbf its not total, its allow in the event of rape, incest, or if the fetus puts the mother in danger
allotherusernamestaken89
The proposed law bans abortions for rape and incest. And doctors will be afraid to act in the last case b/c prison is a chilling effect. 1/2
iamnotbasic
It's utter nonsense!! They already have such strict abortion laws. I will traffic all the mifepristone into Poland if it passes. :(
fancypantspanda
Fuck the downvotes, these assholes don’t know the fucking horrors everyone will suffer. I pray they don’t find out the hard way. & I’d helpu
Itanu
What's a mifepristone?
ABCLockwood
Early Abortion drug
WillPhung
A drug that allows the termination of a pregnancy less than 7 weeks.
lukensz
Don't worry, they're trying to make the morning-after pill illegal as well...
gronostaj
1/ That's partially true. From no jail up to 5 years for mother (judged by court), no jail for doctor if woman's life is under direct threat
vois
But there's also the problem of defining "direct threat". It's clear under this law doctors would rather start saving to late than to soon
gronostaj
2/ Still, it's absurd to send all women who have abortion to court no matter for what reason. There are also more issues with that bill.
SerialMoonPanda
Well, time for another blitzkerg
Utopist
Yes. We need to make Hitler and Nazis great again. F u and your shitty comment.
nihilistdad
Blitzkrieg. Jawohl.
Graygray9
It's disgraceful. I live in Ireland where abortion is illegal too. We're doing our best to protest enough for a referendum. I hate 1/2
VinnieJonesDiary
I'm right with you on that one! We'll get there, we just have to keep pushing against all the cunts like the Iona institute.
Graygray9
How backwards and catholic my country can be 2/2
LemonG34R
Yeah there's a lot of injustice and outrage in the UK over how people from NI have to travel to England/Scotlland to get an abortion which
LemonG34R
just isn't an option for poor people - and don't get me started on backstreet abortions
QueenOfSlimeQueenOfFilthQueenOfPutrescence
That backwards laws is one of the reasons I cannot bring myself to move back home. My cousin had to deliver two babies with fatal fetal 1/2
QueenOfSlimeQueenOfFilthQueenOfPutrescence
2/2 abnormalities. Fuck Ireland. I've had two miscarriages, one requiring a D&C. People don't need the extra shit at a time like that.
BlueDub
Repeal the 8th
Graygray9
Hear hear
kojenk
There was that case of an indian woman who's baby died inside. They refused to remove and it rotted inside her, killing her.
ludwigsholyblade
What the actual fuck!? I'm usually pro life unless it's under conditions but how dumb do you have to be to not remove the fetus when 1/2
ludwigsholyblade
It's already fucking dead? What reason do you have to not do the sanitary and logical thing which would save the woman's life?
kojenk
the laws make the doctors fear the steep potential reprisals. So they choose between future patients or a few mother's lives.
ValkyrieCau
Savita... I met her a few times, she was an incredible woman and it's a disgrace what happened to her, I'm ashamed to be Irish sometimes...
buttermyarse
That happened in Ireland?! That is something you just don't associate with the developed world. Sorry but that's a religious state for you
Graygray9
It still makes me want to cry thinking about that. What is wrong with our country that that was allowed to happen
JamBarn
No they aren't and that was pointed out and sourced in the very Imgur post you got this info from.
IvanTheTesticleVIII
This website is nothing more than a liberal propaganda machine now. Nothing here posted is fact, just convincing opinion.
thatshowirawl
You are such a weirdo
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
Jesus why downvote this? Religious people petitioned it and now it's going to be voted on by the gov't. It's not law yet.
JamBarn
It's the rational response of the righteous lynch mob.
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
Ironic considering the topic, I feel.
FrigginCornflakes
They are: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37540139
JamBarn
Huh. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/05/496722248/after-protests-polish-legislators-vote-to-reject-abortion-ban
DamianWinters
Seriously? I thought Poland was a forward thinking country, god thats fucked up.
vois
We were, kind of, in the 90., for like 4 yrs. We just went from communist regime to catholic regime.
dininek
* used to be... or at least appeared to be
searafina
Not since the accident. And by accident I mean last elections.
llortamai
Sounds like they caught a case of Republicans..
sorosfieldops
Polands new goverment is fucked up.
Einer
It was. Until fanatics and church brainwashed people and won elections last year.
CritterJoe
LMAO, like all that BS PO did was not enough to turn tables at urns... Cmon, you can't be that stupid not to know this? 1/2
CritterJoe
I'm Bienkowska, Kopacz, tapes, those damn squids(and what that fucktard said about it) and a lot more. They pushed folks away, to PiS.
hulk78
Yes sure it was before lol
AGirlWhoLeaptThroughPosts
It was until "we" voted for people from middle ages and gave them all the power...
CritterJoe
Not that I support those fuckwits, but there were quite good reasons that folks gave their vote to them.
vois
Yeah, 500 złoty was a pretty good reason for many people
CritterJoe
BS. Given that almost no politician does come up with real regulation based on promises he makes during campaign. Doubt any one believed.
AGirlWhoLeaptThroughPosts
I didn't see any. I didn't vote for them and am still baffled as to why people did that, especially because they already won once and it
AGirlWhoLeaptThroughPosts
didn't end well
CritterJoe
Well, PO and similar had been elected, same result. Endless stream of corruption, empty trash talk, indolence etc etc 1/2
villlllle
They are deeply catholic afaik.
RaynWisp
Reason enough to never go to Poland
KevinGrzyb
Reason enough to move out of Poland
orbobb
kurwa
5thhorsemanug
Not really. Can't say the same for the politicians, though .
villlllle
I say this from a perspective of an Entropist-agnostic Finn.
PolkaPisteFi
94% of Polish people are baptised, but only 39% take part in religious practice on a regular basis and only 11% are radically "pro-life".
norill
i am a baptised atheist lol
PolkaPisteFi
Me too.
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
I was in Poland and there was a sudden surprise catholic parade and almost everyone stopped their daily activities to get on their knees
PolkaPisteFi
I'm guessing you were in Poland in late May-early June and stumbled upon Corpus Christi parade. It's a once-in-a-year thing 1/2
Paigekitty
So many things like this are misunderstood by a majority of our country. All the info is available but it is tough to overcome propaganda.
freyjaboo
Moat abortions happen because a woman doesn't bother to have safe sex. Not rape/medical issues hich make up less than 10%. THAT is fact.
melveys
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Facts support your statement.
freyjaboo
Because it doesn't fit the narrative that women who get abortions are ~heroes~ instead of immature humans running from responsibility.
JamBarn
Nope. The "majority" does not misunderstand this. You read a tumblr post and decided "most" ppl misunderstand this? Jesus dude.
spamandcrap0
From the info I've gathered, examples given like above happen quite rarely. Less than 10% of abortions are reported to have happened 1/2
spamandcrap0
Because of health issues the mother/child have. 80+% abortions are performed due to perceived financial or timing concerns. 2/2
CoffeeTrampTossBitch
A lot of that you can thank religion for
NotABadLookingNarcissist
Majority, eh, too many, absolutely. Put it up on the big board with - Climate change, evolution, quantum mechanics, and much much more!!
Keepcalmandfapfapfapfap
If you have the chance to use a computer with internet, it's your personal choice to be stupid!
crumplestiltskin
People don't research things that goes against their beliefs...
melveys
Pro-lifers and pro-choices won't agree because their core beliefs are so different. The big question of "when does life begin?"
6675636b796f75
So frustrating, yet so true
bobbot
People don't research things. Most don't even give it a chance to see if it is aligned with their beliefs or not.
CaptainAvatar
Not defending the horrible story, but according to Wikipedia, only 18 states require a medical reason for abortions after 21 weeks.
JamBarn
Shhhh, they're fapping. Don't interrupt.
DamianWinters
America =/= World.
ABillionDucks
We don't take kindly to that kind of talk.
iamnotbasic
Most doctors won't perform after 21 weeks without one.
Roger8086
Regardless, the doctor has the right to decline. Being able to legally get an abortion means nothing when 0 of ### doctors will perform it.
Magpiebones
That should be malpractice. Doctors' personal opinions shouldn't come before medical facts.
skwerl
Yet there are only four doctors in the entire nation that will perform a third trimester abortion, medically necessary or not.
Jenally
I mean that's great but it doesn't help the people in those 18 states much
otiumCatulli
Regardless, most abortions at that age are due to medical reasons anyway.
vois
I imagine the kind of person who would wait 21 weeks to get an abortion and I don't want that kind of people breeding
Frawtarius
"only" 18, which is only, what, 34.6%, which is...oh wait, OVER A FUCKING THIRD OF ALL OF THEM.
TheRaiderofRandom
Please, if you're opposed to abortions, don't get one. If you're opposed to other people, ANY other people, getting abortions, it's called1/
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
If you're opposed to domestic violence, don't abuse your significant other. If you're opposed to other people,
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
ANY other people, abusing their significant others, it's called "a difference of opinion."
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
This is such a disingenuous argument. There's a difference between a fully grown adult and a 12 week old fetus that lacks the ability to
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
feel pain or even perceive the simplest of human emotions. Is this really your best argument?
IUsedToBeTheWalrus
No, it's called parody, or satire. I'm not sure what pain or emotions have anything to do with what was brought up.
TheRaiderofRandom
Yeah, that was pretty much understood.
TheRaiderofRandom
"a difference of opinion." And trying to enact laws to restrict choices so others are limited to the way you would live, disregarding the 2/
TheRaiderofRandom
reality of different circumstances, is a monstrous thing to do. Think about it; either a woman is having one for medical reasons, in which3/
TheRaiderofRandom
case you interfere with a basic imperative to survive, or you're causing another child to be put on an overpopulated planet to a parent 4/
TheRaiderofRandom
either too dumb or irresponsible to use birth control (assuming it works). Is that really the part of mankind you want breeding? Okay, 5/
TheRaiderofRandom
even if you think so, and assert that adoption is an option, consult someone who was adopted, or left in foster care. There is pain there 6/
vibrantlightsaber
I am pro saving mothers life, or child that wouldn't survive, rape but anti using abortion as birth control.
TheRaiderofRandom
Then use other means of birth control.
Falcrist
That's not how this works AT ALL. Someone who is pro life considers the unborn child to have human rights. Thus, your logic doesn't 1/2
Falcrist
hold any more than "if you don't want murder, don't commit one". The difference is when do you consider it a human (rather than a body part)
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Thank you. Too many people miss this.
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
If you required someones kidney, or a pint of their specific blood to survive their human rights trump yours, because it's their body.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
Because the fetus totally doesn't use the mothers blood or organs or body to survive, no sir.
frodotheha
A baby that is born still requires care, and watch what happens when you fail to provide that care (hint, you get arrested)
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
exactly! and causes trauma to the mothers body in the process, again, bodily autonomy should never be violated.
my90srapnameispoodrizzle
Yeah, but your child is not part of your body, before or after birth. There is nothing scientifically to substantiate such a claim.
llamalibrarian
an embryo isn't a part of the woman's body? did you not go to health class?
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
yep and neither are you, yet if you needed something from me (like blood) the fact that you would die without it doesn't let you to take it
Falcrist
If I suddenly want you out of my car, I shouldn't have to slow down before I kick you out. It's MY car after all.
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
And yet, we both know that's a crime. Because that situation doesn't involve your bodily autonomy.
Nick3571
Well I am no fan of abortion but another problem is women will have them whether they are legal or not. Really it is a failure of society.
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
Its like pro-lifers don't realize that pro-choice has pro-life built into it. Abortion being legal doesn't mean somebody is going to force
FPAwperbad
If you believe that abortion is murder then doing nothing is tantamount to approving of genocide.
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
you to have an abortion. Go ahead, have your child, don't vaccinate them, brainwash them into Christianity, and criticize people for having
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
having abortions. Nobody's gonna force you to have an abortion.
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
you obviously don't understand. ok, so are you against death penalty? murder? rape? genocide? [random evil thing here]?
TheRaiderofRandom
I simply know that what harms no living, conscious being should not be made a crime. So yes, I'm very against the death penalty, and can 1/
TheRaiderofRandom
think of few situations in which murder would be a viable course of action, and even fewer involving rape. I am however in favor of an 2/
TheRaiderofRandom
opt-in situation of humane euthanasia involving those given long prison sentences, as well as PAS for the elderly and infirm. 3/
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
well lucky you! nobody is forcing you to do any of those things. just don't bother the ones who do, everybody wins
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
now would you accept that? of course not. (unless you're some kind of monster of course, i don't know you so...maybe?) well neither would
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
people who see abortion as baby murder just stand by and let you murder babies because...''i get to Not murder babies, so win win"
LarvaLamp
Live and let live, live and let die.
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
Arguing that abortion is somehow equal to rape, spousal abuse, or murder is the the most pathetic argument you can make. One is human being
SkiMaskThePlumpGod
That can feel pain and emotion, the other is a 13 week old fetus that has no such ability. You'd have a better argument if you cried about
lr5123
This is... disturbing. I agree with it every last bit, yet it is nonetheless disturbing. Morbid, even. Jeez, somebody give me a puppy gif.
[deleted]
[deleted]
iHveNoCleverName
ThePantslessWonder
I don't have gifs or puppies so you can have me instead.
theslybanananana
mrhobbybob
It made me cry
AwesomestPhlebotomist
Thanks for asking. I needed a puppy gif as well :/
pohm673
ThatOneRandomWalrusAtWalMart
no, embrace the pain.
RULESOFNATURE
Check my favorites
Mizuha112
THINEGLORIOUSREPOSTER
SaintShawn
ᵇᵒᵒᵖ
BigDaddysMeatWagon
I came for the puppy gif.
wackywoohoopizzaman
CouchCarrot
I hate it when people mispronounce "gif."
KjTheLightning
last one reminded me of bullyism anyway(which it is, just with adults, which is even worse)
xtrim
http://imgur.com/G5e5DUY
dubone99
"Think about puppies" was the advice my college gf gave me any time something was going wrong. Imgur makes it easy to find the puppies!
InboxMeYourHDGIFs
tiduszecht
http://www.foopets.com/
annatheonion
TxDavidxT
G0alden3y3
Grow up, shit happens. Be an adult and learn to accept that this occurs everywhere. I agree with how OP feels.
TechKiddz
CodeUsernameIrrelevent
The fact that this is the top post on the FP proves all of you are self righteous pricks
TheMazerunner55
theluckysuccess
CSS?
[deleted]
[deleted]
CharmingPrism
Congrats, and good luck. Remember to breathe.
InboxMeYourHDGIFs
TouchThaFishyyy
UncleIrohnman
http://imgur.com/Dioeu
SmowI
reddit.com/r/eyebleach
HappyJello
Jus10Ed
One, two. Boop, boop.
sheriwallace123
So majestic lol
killerfirefly
I love how neither of them even bothered to try and catch it. They just watched it bounce.
sheriwallace123
Right? They're like we don't care about your ball lol. I like the bouncing though
CommanderVegeta
....*boop*....*boop*
TheBlackVan
WholesomeCrackwhoresForSale
C3POFACE
This isn't remotely close to being funny. This is a legitimate issue that people have serious issues with and you do this??
WholesomeCrackwhoresForSale
i lol'd ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
LasseTheLaser
bro the fuck too soon
WholesomeCrackwhoresForSale
not soon enough breh
Waaahmbulance
Bahahaaa
internetfox
It is. Life is disturbing. It's only being hidden from us. But no point in dwelling on it. Do good, whether there is God or not. Peace.
doubleormuffin
1 gif of a puppy abortion coming right up
[deleted]
[deleted]
WholesomeCrackwhoresForSale
hahhahaha
Jenally
You've got me wondering what pro-lifers think of dog/cat abortions. Had to get my dog's litter terminated & her case wasn't exactly rare
doubleormuffin
Probably depends on if they claim to value the sanctity of all lives, or just human lives. Typical 'do dogs go to heaven' thing.
[deleted]
[deleted]
WholesomeCrackwhoresForSale
no such thing as 'tact' when it comes to dark humor, especially not on the internet. Get back to your safe space lmao
doubleormuffin
Fair enough. Looks like I take these things a little less seriously than most.
NekoMiko06
I did what you just joked about and got "moderated".
doubleormuffin
Christ, dude, I was just making a dark joke. Glad I didn't get to see that before it was deleted.
doubleormuffin
One of the main things in the Community Rules is No Gore, including "the mutilation or torture of human beings, animals, or their remains"
itsPixie
Yeah, I get the point of the text but it still hurt my heart. Gonna go hug my babies now
McFuckerStarPants
Good. This is the kind of truth people need to hear. Crawls under your skin and bothers you. Follows you for days. Makes you think.
Jigsaw68
This. So fucking much
theluckysuccess
Agreed. Makes your opinions more meaningful when you get a more realistic, albeit painful introduction to the circumstances around abortions
iamdanman
Quaxx
That happens when they get wet - you see! Never let them get wet!
BYERE
No, you're thinking Gremlins... Doges are fine to get wet... Though in this case, just throw it in the pool and fish them out when calmer.
mratio
Or...turn the leaf blower off?
BYERE
That too lol
SwayzeUrsidae
This one did it for me lol
orbobb
wtf doge relax
DipStickPaddyWhackPeePeeGoogaleeGee
http://imgur.com/SIf3XbC
Iuseanavatargifforalmostnothing
that's a hairless cat not a pupper
DipStickPaddyWhackPeePeeGoogaleeGee
It's still cute.
Iuseanavatargifforalmostnothing
true
DipStickPaddyWhackPeePeeGoogaleeGee
Two responses and no Avatar gifs yet?
JoshVita
Don't look at it.
DipStickPaddyWhackPeePeeGoogaleeGee
You already did. http://imgur.com/DW7JUCk
JuggaLicious
I have a friend who's baby died inside her, it wasn't fully developed, but if she hadn't had it removed she'd have died of sepsis.
kojenk
In Ireland, women have died because of exactly that when the hospitals refuse. Thats a...prolonged death..in most cases.
FeckItImAubreyPlazaNow
That's not an abortion. That's just removing dead tissue at that point and it happens all the time.
QueenOfSlimeQueenOfFilthQueenOfPutrescence
Had a D&C last year. Doc explained that the medical term is removal of "products of conception". Prefered my D&C to my 'natural' miscarriage
FeckItImAubreyPlazaNow
It's an awful, horrific thing and I'm sorry it happened to you.
QueenOfSlimeQueenOfFilthQueenOfPutrescence
Unfortunately happens to so many people. I
QueenOfSlimeQueenOfFilthQueenOfPutrescence
Bah, accidental post. I'm pretty a pragmatic person. Babies weren't well. 5 months preggo now and all looking good. Fingers crossed.
Dafreeman
I'm pro death.
wallmasterandfriends
Anti-Life? http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2014/11/13/darkseidjpg-89c0ea_1280w.jpg
JamBarn
A man who takes a stand.
Aguynamedcarl
muhvitus
Welcome to the infantry! Would you like to know more?
DavosSeaworthTheOnionKnight
Nah go support. You get all those juicy assists.
johnvictor
Pfah, infantry blows. You get a better K:D ratio glassing planets from orbit.
Dreamspitter
It's the only way to be sure.
muhvitus
Sometimes you want quality instead of quantity.
HungryPumpkn
Sounds like someone is ready for the skeleton war.
Anhabanana
.... Tori?
OGCurious
I'm pro choice because what goes on in a woman's uterus is none of my business.
Dreamspitter
It's a Doctors business. :D He knows what he's doing.
heterocera
It should be the woman's business, only.
jetstreaminfinity
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
jimmythehat1
As a medical professional, that's not how it's done anyway.
JamBarn
Should be top comment. Isn't because free thinkers are busy lauding "truths".
ThatGrrlOverThere
http://www.nhsinform.com/health-library/articles/a/abortion/how-is-it-performed/
heterocera
So, accurate.
rauldavid
I think you totally missed the point of this post
jimmythehat1
No, I understood it. I'm just saying the picture in the first part of the post isn't how it's done and serves more to scare people.
Foxyrain
I was curious about the validity of the image. Not that it's the point. Point is don't judge, but still...
JamBarn
It is the point since the post blames it on pro lifers.
psychoelectrickitty
As an 8 month pregnant woman, there's a lot to these stories that seems fishy to me. Things not adding up.
RetConMan
Yeah, I didn't even read the last one because the first two were so fishy and preachy.
Roger8086
Skepticism is a healthy reaction to anything you see on the Internet. And then you run into it in real life:
DeusCaritasEst
Woman who's never been pregnant here (but hopes to be someday). Would you be able to elaborate?
snoozywomble
sounds like you are having a good pregnancy, both of mine sucked and I have one living child (still had an emergency c section with him)
psychoelectrickitty
It's only been okay. Several bumps in the road.
snoozywomble
Not all pregnancies are the same, not all countries or even hospitals use the same procedures. Please elaborate?
Corrodias
Well, don't tell us what they are.
psychoelectrickitty
The one with high blood pressure-- that's called HELLP syndrome, similar to preeclampsia. Life threatening to mom in less than 1% of cases.
psychoelectrickitty
Most hospitals consider 24 weeks viable outside of the womb and would push to wait another week and place in NICU. some hospitals 23 weeks
psychoelectrickitty
You can't exactly be forced to stay at a hospital or with a certain doctor. Sign an AMA and transfer hospitals.
Nick3571
I don't understand why the mother told her daughter all the details about the abortion of her brother and the nurse throwing sonogram pics?
heterocera
Perhaps the mother told her daughter when she was grown.
Nick3571
It seems like an agenda-pushing story. Also, another lady went to the church for medical advice. In what context did that occur at a church.
Nick3571
I mean these things could have happened but still it would be one person's perspectives about a very emotional time. Emotions distort truth.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
She went to the church for emotional support because her baby was dying and killing her.
psychoelectrickitty
If that nurse treated a patient with disgust for her job, a post hospital stay survey would have gotten her fired. Religious hospital or not
psychoelectrickitty
Extremely unprofessional and the patient could have asked for a new nurse.
psychoelectrickitty
For her job? I meant for her procedure being performed. My bad.
AccioHockey
Spoken like someone who's never lived in a religion dominated community. Ever been to Utah? Sketchy shit happens with the Mormans all the1/?
psychoelectrickitty
I live in Utah.
AccioHockey
time. My bf's mother got fired for not forging documents.Saying that a guy had attended court ordered drug/alcohol training when he hadnt2/?
prfesser
I'm 60. I have great hopes for today's youth. They're more liberal. I think (hope?) that there will be fewer radical pro-lifers, and (1/2)
Throaway123
You act like being more liberal is a good thing. But of course you're baby boomer trash. Shitty opinions is what you're great at.
norabora
You act like being more liberal is a bad thing. I will refrain from further comments about what I think of you and your opinions
iamnotbasic
I dunno dude. America seems to be back pedalling quite a bit from Roe v Wade :(
HOLAKOOO
those church groups are really loud. and then there's ALEC...
KRicci
Thank you for not thinking we're all stupid. I get that impression a lot and try to work hard to prove it wrong :/
CrazyCatLad
I went to a Catholic college. VERY Pro-birth. People admonished my friend for her stillborn she had to abort.
prfesser
that abortion will be looked upon by most people as a sometimes-regrettable but necessary procedure--and the choice left up to the woman!
QuazMasta
That would be nice. Sadly, there are activists who prefer to treat the choice as if it is NOT regrettable but is simply a choice.
Cheomesh
The next step is removing the regret.
johnvictor
I'm pro-choice but really dislike abortion. In that vein I'm pro-contraceptive and should have even easier access to them.
Cheomesh
I found myself wondering how long before Implanon (etc) will be required the same way shots are.
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
You can be pro choice and not be pro abortion. I would never abort other than for medical necessity, but I will fight for my right to choose
idoitbitz
This is definitely a must read. Really puts matters into perspective from the people who actually go through this.
ozjuggler
Checkmate, deontologists.
crumplestiltskin
My wife had a miscarriage and I can tell you this hits home. no one gets far that does not want to keep the baby....
Turner78
I know a girl I went to high school with that had a partial birth abortion because she didn't want it drove to Wichita KS, no questions askt
nononini
I forced myself to read it. Poor people that go through this and other similar situations.
hakunamatatas
You'd be more foolish to believe this drivel than anything you read on 4chan. Pro choice is fine, but these stories are autofellating shit.
Fairdinkums
I will never understand this. Why is there still an option to have any anti abortion groups? Why is someones life someone elses decision?
thundercactus
I think most anti-abortion people are all about unexpected pregnancies. And then a few asshole members lose sight of reason through...
thundercactus
emotion and then extend their judgement through the medical field of which they have no personal or practical experience in.
thundercactus
Cause like, if your wife/sister/cousin died due to NOT having a medically required abortion. Kinda changes your perspective on it.
Superfuntime
Does anyone actually know any of these stories are true? This is awful stuff, but also the best stuff to show pro lifers....
[deleted]
[deleted]
WhoWatchesTheWatchersWatcher
I haven't spoken to him since. He put all this false hope in her heart when the baby had 0 chance of living. It was cruel. Made it worse.
CatsandDnD
For example in Ireland in 2012 a woman (Savita Halappanavar) died bc her doctor refused to abort the baby she was already miscarrying.
ThugCat
I get why you ask, but it bugs me that anyone would need to justify this harrowing decision. It's a private decision betw. patient & doctor.
Superfuntime
I wanted so bad to post this in a conversation i was having on FB. But pro lifers wouldn't read it and i'd just be like them...
Superfuntime
You know? Making up dead children to avoid stating a proper argument. "That baby girl will never her first shoes."
VolcanoTacoGinsburg
A lot of pro lifers wouldn't care unfortunately. Blinded by their "cause"
Superfuntime
Well i wouldn't want to play their game anyway. The whole "no real arguments just attempts at pulling heartstrings.".
hakunamatatas
Well if you do even a tiny bit of critical reasoning, you can tell this is a straw man. I grew up around pro-life people and I had never -
hakunamatatas
heard anyone talk about miscarriages somehow being immoral or shameful. I haven't heard that in media, by activists, anywhere. The "They -
Superfuntime
Also, pro choice people don't need to use strawmen. Logic and reason is on our side. Overpopulation and female autonomy. Case closed.
Superfuntime
I think you mean you grew into a pro life person. If you're not a pregnant woman, abortion is none of your fucking business.
YourSocksHaveHoles
I usually prefer arguments without insults, doesnt dilute the point as much. People tune out when you lead with "you goddamn assholes"
rauldavid
Try to focus on the point being made.
tarrbot
"Oh shut up you goddamn asshole" :)
Falcrist
My favorite is the comments that strawman the entire discussion until they're arguing against... nobody.
RietPluim
So fuck you too, you goddamn asshole.
RietPluim
Basically you're telling us not to express our anger. You know what? We ARE angry and we have every right and reason to.
RietPluim
Obviously you mean that we should have a calm, reasonable discussion about how pro-lifers, sometimes even literally, destroy people's lives.
RietPluim
Do you mean insults like calling women in need and the doctors who help them murderers?
raidleadergutts
It only dilutes the point if you pay more attention to insults & desperately ignore the point itself.
Roger8086
You may be capable of picking through insulting rhetoric to find the kernel of truth, @raidleadergutts, but many others stop caring... (1/2)
Roger8086
...the moment their opposition makes it personal. After all, THEY made themselves your enemy; why should you care what they think? (2/2)
raidleadergutts
Picking through that doesn't require much more than a few working brain cells & a will to actually get the point. It's called being mature.
Roger8086
It could also be called masochistic, but that's a matter of personal opinion. Regardless, I hope you're getting the point. 8]
Roger8086
What kind of stupid asshole are you, @raidleadergutts? I mean, it takes a SPECIAL kind of dumb to think insults don't sway people.
raidleadergutts
Sure they might, but only in cases like this where what one says consists only of insults & nothing of substance.
Roger8086
Really? Because there was a single point (insults sway people) and you seem to have dismissed it because of the insults. THAT is the point.
iamnotbasic
Try maintaining your composure when ideology kills YOUR family member...
itsybitsyspider
Lost my mother to someone who was texting while driving and still wouldn't present an argument against it like that. You don't argue--
itsybitsyspider
-- you stroke the ego and provoke thought.
Roger8086
Then attack the ideology, not the people. The moment you make it personal, the argument is lost amidst their defense of the self.
ReleaseTheSounds
If you can't keep a cool head the terrorist win.
Aelinsaar
No no, the fetus is precious... until it's born, then fuck that kid. -Religious Right
IvanTheTesticleVIII
It's really pathetic you leftists can never argue without name calling or strawmen. Almost like you're wrong or something...
Aelinsaar
"You leftists... name calling..." lol
boingclashboom
Yeaaaa..My adopted mom is religious but she knows how shitty it can be for foster kids/ system kids & she's pro-choice... Religioning right
TheWallpaperMaker
My church kinda shoves abortion under the rug because we all are pro-choice but nobody wants to admit it.
Aelinsaar
That rug must be pretty gross by now...
BushelOfLabeouf
"No you can't abort the baby! *fast forward in time* You're unfit to be parents!"
RobertEmmet
"Get a job, you baby!" -Ted Cruz to a literal newborn
johnvictor
My favorite thing is nearly all the pro-life advertisement I have seen show little white babies. Despite the majority of abortions are /1
johnvictor
from minorities. Guess it's easier for people who are heavily prejudiced to agree if it involves white people.
Cheomesh
I have noticed this.
Falcrist
Misrepresenting what people believe is an ineffective way of convincing them to change.
Aelinsaar
Change happens one coffin at a time, convincing people is overrated.
InboxMeWhatYouLove
Rightly said! Fuck that child!
Mewmus
*PHRASING!!!!
InboxMeWhatYouLove
Lana... laanaaa... LAAAAAAAANNAAAAAAAA!
Aelinsaar
Found the priest!
InboxMeWhatYouLove
Drewbagger
10/10 recreation of 100% true argument that totally happened. would echo chamber again
Aelinsaar
-Embittered Rightwinger
Drewbagger
I'm actually pretty center and don't give a shit either way. I just don't like circle jerks full of strawmans that aren't close to accurate.
Aelinsaar
It's accurate, it's just hyperbolic and in 140 characters. ...But sure, I'll just pretend that you were randomly, intellectually offended.
Drewbagger
Just like how you pretend that your misconstrued view of pro-life arguments are true.
cloverandsage
Some people are pro-life in all political aspects-- for social welfare, against war and the death penalty...not just in regards to abortion.
Aelinsaar
Some people are world class athletes... not many though.
cloverandsage
There are more than you would expect, we're just not very loud compared to people on either extreme end.
Aelinsaar
Ah yes... the "silent majority" concept.
cloverandsage
I never said we're the majority...
HOLAKOOO
Fucking Truth right there my friend
silentbob187
I wish this was something that was the decision of three people - mother, father, doctor. No government, no one else. Nobody's business.
ABillionDucks
The father has a choice?
heterocera
Sometimes, depends on the relationship. He shouldn't have a legal choice, though.
ABillionDucks
So, that's a no.
heterocera
No one should be able to force a woman to abort or be pregnant/give birth, not the father, not the doctor, not the government.
InboxMeWhatYouLove
Absolutely agree with this. It's nobody's business! Also, Drs. should not let their personal beliefs get in the way of correct diagnosis
Barbaraquechickain
However, plenty of times the doctor will refuse to abort a child, based on personal principals. What say you in that context?
InboxMeWhatYouLove
They are no doctors if they do let their personal shit belief interfere with diagnosis. Fuck those doctors particularly.
silentbob187
Find another doctor.
MaggGyver
In principle, not a bad idea, but for some people that just isn't possible for financial, geographic, or other reasons.
Barbaraquechickain
What if you can't? There are women who's insurance only covers one doctor; the only one they can afford. How about them? (Not trying to 1/2
Robdogs1
I hear there are some great back alley abortion clinics in almost every 50 states. No clothes hangers are ever used twice
Barbaraquechickain
Start anything, I'd just like to hear your side of it)
Ralter3
Would still be better than today. They have to drive to other states, let alone other doctors.
Canisiel
That is a violation of patient rights in the US. Everyone has a right to choose their health care provider.
ohgeeRick
Medicaid never covers abortions. They specifically single it out to not cover it. It's so stupid.
silentbob187
Each situation is unique and shouldn't be funneled into all or none legislation. Doctor is there to support a woman's health not morality 1
silentbob187
Truth be told it isn't my place to make that decision for anyone just as it isn't anyone's place to decide for anyone else.
UnnecessaryApostrophe
This is my view on this whole matter, the doctor is not there to be a moral guide/enforcer, imagine if a car shop wouldn't repair your car
guardian19d
So, can I be pro life and still think some abortions are necessary?
ChrisLucas1
Because that position doesn't come from logic, it comes from religious indoctrination. Birther extremist is more accurate.
HungryDLuffy
There is always more than just yes and no.
Rawrihazshotgun
Someone else said "I'm pro-choice but you don't see me cheering for abortions."
RandCauthon
As long as you keep it a personal choice and not try to force your choice on others through legislation.
minigreyhound
Then that's pro choice
KlatnYelox
These aren't abortions. These are lifesaving procedures. There is a huge difference.
malachitedragon
no, that's called 'being reasonable' and we'll have no truck with that on this fine website of ours.
Vicidsmartv2
FurryFeetys
Are you implying there might be nuance to this debate?? That maybe life has shades of grey?!?
crankytapir
I'm guessing your from a country where abortion is legal. I'm not, and your position would be considered pro-choice here (Ireland).
brobinson2001
My gun-totin' pro-life right-wing anti-abortion "Dems are the devil" uncle's wife is only still alive bc they aborted their 1/2
brobinson2001
hydroencephalic fetus at 25 weeks and she had preeclampsia. If she'd carried to term (if it survived), it would've killed her two ways. 2/?
brobinson2001
Either she'd have stroked out, or it would've gotten stuck and the cesarean would've killed her bc of her bp. But abortion is still evil.
Frizoggy
Be whatever you want. I choose not to label my opinion.
ASmellofWineandCheapPerfume
Absolutely; I feel the same way.. it's called being labeled too much. Although, technically, I suppose we'd be pro-choice, since we do [1]
ASmellofWineandCheapPerfume
understand that sometimes an abortion is the answer. [2]
BeadyEyed123
That makes you more pro-choice. Pro-life is a farce, as the above points out. Pro-life negates choice, pro-choice does not negate life.
sillybananas
That's the definition of pro-choice. No one is pro-abortion.
VonEisen
Find a good path for you, but don't try to force it on others. As soon as you start to do that you are one of the monsters.
amglasgow
You can't be "Pro-Life", according to their ideology, unless you hold that no abortion, ever, is allowable. Not to save the life of the 1/2
Thomjones
No it means you're pro choice. Which does NOT mean you want abortions. Pro-choice just means you think people should have a choice.
kirmokum
protip: pro-choice ≠ pro-abortion.
Janescheeseaddiction
Yes. In fact this is my belief.
Actualdeadpool
If the mother won't survive, terminate the child. It's better to adopt than to lose the mother.
Brittewater
I would say that's pro-choice but 99% of the time you are choosing life.
amglasgow
mother, not in cases of rape or severe congenital defects or brain-death in the womb. Ideological purity is more important. 2/2
windragon
that's kinda pro-choice. but it's okay to think that abortions should be given out under certain conditions
RoombaTheAssaultVacuum
Yes. I am for abortion in certain cases, against it in others. I understand those who are on either side of the fence but
RoombaTheAssaultVacuum
A full 60-70% of the pro-lifers I meet are shitters. Glad to see you have sense and decency about you.
ImNachoBoyfriend
Yes you can be a moderate.
brobinson2001
I'm pro-life. But pro-choice. I'm against it as bc, but it's not my body, not my life. When it is, then we'll deal with it.
LordIggy
That's in line with being pro choice. You can be personally pro-life while accepting that sometimes abortions need to happen.
LordIggy
Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion, it just means what it says on the label. People have a right to decide whether or not to abort.
itsabouttogetspicy
You don't get to choose which abortions are "necessary".
PizzaTammer
Welcome to the club of misfits. There are dozens of us!
meaninglessexistence99
right? i feel like a vast majority of pro lifers are reasonable enough to allow it if there are potentially fatal medical issues
eruval82
No, because "necessary" has to fall into some kind of moral boundary and you can't dictate what someone else's moral boundaries are
Vicidsmartv2
Exactly
Isengrad
Pro-life is a misnomer. People like what is described up there, are not pro-life. they are pro-birth. they don't care what happens after.
StevieMcSteveface
Of course. Pro life shouldn't be reserved just for the fetus, its for the sanctity of all life. ALL Life. ALL LIVES MATTER.
RufusTheAardvark
Most pro-lifers do.
RepostFromLastWeek
Nah mate, its black and white. Either you want to kill all babies or none. No middle ground.
jtb1313
I am a mix of both it is a medical procedure not a form of birth control except in certain situations like other forms of BC failed
Thomjones
No. Pro-Life is no abortions period. Pro-choice is "well it depends". You're pro-choice.
Theinternetwasinventedforveryimportantscience
You mean you're exactly like 100% of all people who are pro-choice? If you think some abortions are necessary then you are pro choice.
NotTodayNotYesterday
That's what you fucking got from that? Just don't be abhorrent. What's with with you fuckers wanting attention for an obvious answer?
topoandfriends
Thats why I felt uncomfortable with some of the things said, it is more than been blind and follow prolife or prochoice thoughts. It's damn
topoandfriends
Complicated. And although I believe there are people who uses abortions as a contraceptive measure which I don't think it's right
topoandfriends
There are cases in which either the child will suffer more or the mother is in mortal peril that, unlucky, it should be done. Can't deal in
topoandfriends
Absolutes
DarthReznor
No, cuz if you think some abortions are necessary, you're pro choice
Spidey209
I feel this way but also recognise that it is none of my damn business to tell people what they should do.
nanamonster
Yes YOU can but pro-choice is still ok early on. Plenty of reasons for it to be ok. Whether it's money, medical, or situational.
whollyunimpressed
I almost call this post a straw man, but with Polish legislation, maybe it isn't. Most prolifers believe that some abortions are necessary.
Actualdeadpool
Yes.
QuazMasta
Absolutely.
MancrushonThor
Not even Romney was a pro-life hard-liner
Junktrunkjunkie
Romney was LDS, The LDS church's stance on abortion is that it is for cases of rape, incest, or if the life of mother or child is at risk ->
Junktrunkjunkie
-> and should be considered carefully with the aid of a medical professional.
DevilOrchid
From what I learned in my theology class about abortions is yes you can be prolife and still say that some abortions are necessary. (1/?)
DevilOrchid
For example, if the child is harming the mother and it's a life or death situation, they can perform an extraction where they attempt (2/?)
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
WhatTheDormouseSaid
Nothing in life is supposed to be black/white, there's always exceptions to everything.
toeBeans1912
Pro life literally has the word life in it. It doesn't have to be an absolute. It can mean different things to different people. Chill.
carlcrossing
Yes
theyar
Yes but this post confuses the issue.
MechaNinja
Not that I condone facism; or any ism for that matter. Isms, in my opinion, are not good. A person should not believe in an ism, he should
MechaNinja
believe in himself.
MechaNinja
http://imgur.com/KpDj7C9
MacRockatansky
Not on Tumblr you can't.
PedanticAndIKnowIt
Yes, and it can tally with traditional christian views. Cf. The Doctrine of Double Effect, and Thomas Aquinas.
Thomjones
That's so dumb. Abortions are bad but God wiping out the world with a flood is totally okay.
Thomjones
He wipes two towns off the map but it's okay bc they were bad people, all life is precious but not those. These are your stories.
MikeMcAwesome91
For real. Let's judge pro-lifers on their worst examples.
superdinglebudgie
Yes. You're true pro-life. The abortion is likely done because there is a life at stake - even if not medically.
superdinglebudgie
After all, a mother with 4 mouths to feed must decide if the resources she has is enough and if it isn't who will be impacted?
superdinglebudgie
Is it better to birth a child who will have fewer resources or to focus her resources on her 4 living children?
ozythemandias
You can do and think whatever you want. Labeling yourself, then trying to fit your beliefs into that label, is stupid.
Bigfoot799
I agree, but only assuming that in doing so you are not harming or infringing upon the rights of others
JimHeckler
Well said.
ShinyObject
I think you can't be pro life WITHOUT acknowledging some abortions are necessary.
ShinyObject
Not if you care about the life of anyone besides the fetus (the mother, say) or about the quality of life that fetus will have.
ThisIsJustMySecondNSFWAccountMoveAlongOrPMmeIDontCare
John Oliver showed an interesting statistic that only 19% of people believe that abortion should always be illegal.
DMGuy
Dude, 19% is a *fuckton* of people. If I told you that 19% of the country were flat-Earthers you'd wig the fuck out.
ThePastmaster
One in five people? Crikey.
raidleadergutts
19% isn't "only", that's one in five people & that's one in five people too many. It should be zero.
browsib
19% is bigger than I'd have guessed
Vaanhalen
As a social conserv for 30+ yrs, I am SHOCKED it's that high, 19%. I was more liberal thn that in **1990.** No prolifer I know sezdat, EVER.
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
*in the U.S.A.
eggmuffin
"Only"? "ONLY"?! 19 fucking percent is a lot!
kdarcy
He's a comedian
TheNatAttack
He brings a satirical aspect to the news. Yes, he's a comedian, but he's current a news anchor too.
kdarcy
He's a comedian that reads satirical news that the shows writers provide him
NotABadLookingNarcissist
Too high.
BlueDsc
Only? 19% is a fucking huge number.
CaptainAsshat
Exactly, what the hell? Is this a global statistic or is it just the US where religion is still relatively big?
azmyth1
When you are talking politics, you can find 19% that believe almost anything.
Cthulhuchooseyou
Word. There are those who seriously believe the world is flat, despite overwhelming scientific evidence to the fact of a globe.
Vaanhalen
I'd expect the actual number to be about 1.9%, and half of them misunderstood the question or didn't think it through.
exactedgenticles
That's very optimistic of you. I think part of the problem is that the anti-choice groups would never include these facts in their rhetoric
exactedgenticles
Facts about the reasons people get late term abortions. So yeah, 19% sounds about right...
llortamai
Didn't need to think it through because their church leaders told them what to think.
laddeao
That 19% is so loud though.
GitRightStik
Good job Poland, and the American Bible Belt, way to be noticed...
Clitastrophe
And remarkably high actually.
SpaceSphere
Thats why they are called a vocal minority
morithum
Like so many issues.
JimHeckler
It's often the loudest person in the room who is the most ignorant.
TheUpdootist
Only take 1 radical to bomb a clinic/attacking doctors.
Porfirij
well that and a conservative news channel / anchor to continually call him "baby killer"...
ecodude
Hey shut up. Everyone knows Christians can't be terrorists. Get out of here with those lies/s
llortamai
Well it's OK to kill someone to prove how precious life is! /sarcasm
Vaanhalen
I've only heard that when it's prochoicers saying "this is what prolifers believe". Never ever by actual prolifers. Even the "relig. right."
Vaanhalen
Maybe you could find some quote by like Mike Huckabee, but nobody takes their moral cues from Huckabee. He's just a folksy stereotype.
GreaterDog
But people do. He has a vigorous following by staunch religious conservatives. More like "nobody with a worldview rooted in reality"
Vaanhalen
That's just condescending and myopic. On the far left u have ppl living in hippie communes, committing child abuse by kids avoiding dentist,
Aldante92
I'm pro-life, but if having a baby would kill you, you should absolutely abort. After all, you are "life" just as much as that baby is.
Raeilgunne
Nah, that opinion is fairly common, in some circles. I was raised that way, kinda brainwashed actually. Glad I fell away, really.
TheyHunger
It varies from place to place, but I have heard people say it.
BigWilldo
I've talked to a couple of realllyy conservative christian people that said things like "I really sympathize with rape victims. I..." 1/2
Vaanhalen
Are u a prochoicer saying "this is what prolifers believe"? Genuinely wondering... But I'd be shocked if a commenter said "I'm prolife &xyz"
BigWilldo
Well I'm pro choice, but I've actually talked to people at school and done friends that are actually pro-life that actually said thesethings
BigWilldo
"Really do, but all life is sacred and need to be brought into this world at any cost." Absolutely baffling to me...
fleetoffoxes
See to me it is baffling that people accept excuses to terminate individual life. No matter how shitty it is.
SpaceSphere
My biggest issue is how they want that but don't want their tax dollars going to help support the baby even if in the worst of circumstances
AdrenlinHit
You can write yourself into any neat little box you want. Make up your own mind. Hint: the world is never so simple as black and white.
ohgeeRick
No.
guardian19d
This sparked a large discussion. Much larger than I expected. Yes, I'm pro life. I'm against abortion unless there is a valid justification
guardian19d
I know valid justifications exist. I have to say I agree with most all of you. You have provided good insight on both sides. Thank you all.
Clitastrophe
I'm Pro-Life. But with a heavy priority on the mother's life first. You can always (typically) try again for a new baby.
Clitastrophe
Pro-choice tends to include the choice to abort just because you feel like it. I do not agree with that. Rape or Risk make the difference.
Clitastrophe
Pregnancy is a consequence of your earlier -choice- (if it was a choice) to have sex.But once risk is involved it's the choice of the woman.
Clitastrophe
If I got knocked up because of my willful actions that's one thing. But once my or anyone's life is on the line, the existing life is more-
Clitastrophe
-important than the life yet to be, a life that has no connections like you do. Likewise if I never had the choice to in the first place.
Thomjones
That's pro-choice. It's just that in a personal situation, you wouldn't choose an abortion.
andyar
That's called pro choice. Pro choice does not mean Pro death like everyone thinks it does. It means there are reasons for it sometimes.
Thomjones
If a mother is likely to die with the baby, her having the CHOICE to abort is important to you. That's pro-choice.
TheArcticAC
2/2 Lucy needed a 26 week abortion to not suffer agonizing death. Medically necesary is medically necesary, you don't kill two to save none
TheArcticAC
No it's fucking not, that's pro responsible health care. You don't get to kill a 34 week child almost ready to be birthed because 1/2
Thomjones
2/2 So why remove choice from a majority for the actions of 1%?
Thomjones
Less than 1.4% of abortions occur after 21 weeks and it's not even allowed without medical reason in a lot of states. 1/2
TheArcticAC
Did I say we should remove all choice for everyone in all cases? No, i didn't.
TheArcticAC
Not a fucking free for all."should we ban people from murdering infants?" "no, why would we, only 1% of infant deaths are because of murder"
TheArcticAC
Sensible legislation would allow for medically necesary late term abortions, while banning them overall.
TheArcticAC
I don't care if those abortions are 0.1%, it doesn't make them more okay.
ZombieHugsAreBestHugs
Yes, it's called using logic and reason. I applaud you for it.
SorryThisUsernameHasBeenTaken
I too walk the middle ground. I believe people have the right to choose. I don't agree with people that use it as a form of contraception.
bomacca
I want to believe that restricting access would stop the idea that people have that it is a form of contraception and make them take more (1
bomacca
Responsibility, but I know that is expecting too much from the general public. I still feel the need to strive for better! (2
outrihj
This. I know someone who has had multiple abortions and they are in their early twenties. Makes me fucking sick.
zygomaticpreacher
Absolutely. Every single pro-life person I've ever met believes that. Causing both a mother and her child to die is the opposite of pro-life
zygomaticpreacher
It's the much more common, early term "abortions of convenience" that are the issue for pro-life people.
zygomaticpreacher
Although I hate the term "convenience" - oversimplifies the situation. It's not a convenient choice for anyone I don't think.
eggmuffin
Or you can be pro letting people be sensible adults and not add to the misery and suffering of the world by not dealing in absolutes.
vois
Being "pro-life" surely isn't pro life.
BlackOpalGalaxy
Nope that's simply a flavor of pro choice. Pro life is no abortion, pro choice is abortion is an option for reasons.
Corrodias
You might want to find a new word; those folks call themselves "pro life", not "pro choice". Call them that, and you'll just confuse folks.
Thomjones
If the term "choice" is confusing to people then they shouldn't reproduce.
BlackOpalGalaxy
It's branding. They chose that because who could be against life? You'd actually need to educate yourself to know what that position means
CatlitterDaily
I think anyone that can die from the birth/pregnancy of a baby should be allowed to abort as well as if it's the cause of rape or 1/?
CatlitterDaily
Something, but ones that caused from two teens fucking around (literally) shouldn't be aborted because you should have been using 2/?
VinnieJonesDiary
So because someone makes a dumb mistake you think you can remove their Human Rights? Go fuck yourself.
CatlitterDaily
-shrugs- I can accept the downvotes, and I'm just saying if your still in high school you shouldn't be fucking
VinnieJonesDiary
Why?
CatlitterDaily
Protection if you didn't want the baby, but whatever. There's my opinion, probably getting downvoted to hell but whatever 3/3
bomacca
I am with you, the people who fit into the first categories probably only make up a very small % of people who get abortions
itsabouttogetspicy
"Probably"....You have no idea what you are talking about. Your entire argument is based on assumptions and rhetoric.
szepasszony
No form of birth control is 100% effective, and having sex shouldn't negate a person's bodily sovereignty.
wilyame
absolutely. its why i think the terms are stupid. I am Pro life and anti abortion. But abortion should be completely legal.
Thomjones
Then you're pro-choice. Legally speaking, since pro-life means abortion illegal. But personally speaking you're pro-life. It's dumb I know.
SirsMadeline
That's called pro-choice. Because you won't presume to choose for other people.
wilyame
yea. i know. but what im saying is that im both pro life and pro choice. those two arent mutually exclusive. its bad wording.
SirsMadeline
My own wording, personally, is pro choice and anti-choice. I don't assign a belief in life to either party.
wilyame
we shoudl try to make sure as few abortions happen as possible, through better birth control. but when a woman needs to have one, she should
becauseurwrong
I'd expect to find you higher in the comments.
superafleck
yes. i do too. rape, mother having serious illness. in lots of cases it is necessary. I oppose abortion which only done due to inconvenience
itsabouttogetspicy
FFS no one gets an abortion because of "inconvenience" stop with that bullshit already! You don't get to decide what is necessary for whom!
Obapallo
God forbit a mother brings a child to a financially or otherwise insecure home
aesthesia1
Yes bringing unwanted life into the system as a ward of the state is so convenient for that fetus that has to grow up into poverty.
Foxyrain
But there are people who wouldn't agree with you about the rape part. It's a slippery slope. Just let people do what's right for them
TheArcticAC
Those who disagree with the rape part do so because it's a stupid argument to make. The child is not responsible for it's fathers crimes
IfYoureReadingThisImDrunk
I know I'd never be able to live with myself if I had an abortion, even if I was raped. But I 100% understand why people would feel 1/2
IfYoureReadingThisImDrunk
Otherwise. I just know myself well enough to know how I would react in a situation like that. I pray we all do.
itsabouttogetspicy
I don't think you know what you would do if you were raped. You have no fucking clue.
MsAlderaan
Dealing in absolutes is a path to the dark side
cang559
Is it a dark path to say people should absolutely have a choice
JustAFellaThatLikesDogs
that was deep
halfswing
I had to upvote you to 666
Actualdeadpool
Warzone12
Thank you. Once I read the above comment, I was expecting this, and sure enough, you come and saved the day.
Actualdeadpool
TrustMeImABassist
Master Yoda, you I see.
GodSiege
Wait, who tf are you then?
TrustMeImABassist
I'm a bassist.
AlphaLimaEchoCharlie
It's an older username sir, but it checks out.
PikkuPiko
This is why you should only use Koskenkorva or Stolichnaya, don't touch that Absolut shite. Unless you *want* to join the dark side...
TheChef1212
I love you.
Actualdeadpool
I know.
wilyame
yea i agree. every1 who deals in absolutes is an idiot.
GeorgeSmiley
Only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Bebrumpy
There are no absolutes. Wait, that's one isn't it?
DahPrincess
Yes and no
ManHasNoUsername
The jedis are complete hypocrites, there are no absolutes. But absolutely no relationships!
ABillionDucks
No absolutes? I dunno about that.
busdriverdan
Old jedi to be specific. That is what led to their downfall.
Dontrespectmahauthoritah
There is no emotion, there is no emot... KILL THE SITH WITH FIRE, ORBITAL BOMB KORRIBAN AND DROMUND KAAS, GENOCIDE ALL OF THEM FOR PEACE.
Cheeselicious
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi (secretly a Sith)
YamatoIouko
Obi-Wan using a single absolute doesn't mean he treated everything as such. Anakin was being ONLY black-and-white.
becauseurwrong
~ Written by George Lucas (openly a Sith)
ImaSithDuh
As a Sith, can confirm.
BrawndoTheThirstMutilatorIsWhatPlantsCrave
life is made of shades of grey, so people who only see anything as black or white are not willing to view the issue from all angles
discardedusername
And this is where there are either violent disagreements, or, like I did, you just acknowledge the difference of opinion and move on.
SpikeTheGoat
From what I learned, there are approximately fifty shades of grey, though some are rather constricting.
TabbyKitty13
DarkUranium
Lies, there are clearly 256, numbered 0 to 255.
Orion1030
I think "pro-life" means pro fetus evert time no questions asked. That's why it's called "pro-choice" not "pro-abortion". Give her a choice.
MacRockatansky
So how do you distinguish between levels of pro-choice? I think nearly everyone agrees there are some situations where it is necessary.
Orion1030
Honestly, it is her choice period. It is literally a part of her until the cord is cut, hence her choice.
MacRockatansky
Disagree.
Kamasu0Tra
The same you you determine different levels of any kind of social structure; you observe, examine then throw it all out cuz labels are trash
MacRockatansky
Ok. But I am pro-necessity abortions, but anti-convenience abortions. Calling all of the above "pro-choice" is deceptive.
Kamasu0Tra
That's what I am saying; sure, you can make 1000 different labels for the 1000's of different ways people look at the problem. Will it fix
yesvsno
I feel like it's opposite. Pro life draws the line at a minimum, pro choice says you can have one for any reason what so ever.
szepasszony
No matter what you feel, the groups themselves don't define themselves that way. Pro-life America would ban all abortions if they could.
meaninglessexistence99
just not true. at all. i believe the mother should have a choice in situations like this ONLY. still consider myself pro life though.
meaninglessexistence99
or are most pro choice and pro life people on the same page and just not realize it maybe? idk
lovelake
What exactly does pro-life mean/include to you?
Flyndaran
It's like both sides intentionally misrepresent the opposition using only the most extreme members as examples.
PadPio
Perfect.
QuazMasta
ding ding ding ding ding
itstotallynotwhatyouthink
Glad someone said it. Pro-life people are not against necessary procedures....obviously.
SirsMadeline
Some are.
llortamai
Who defines necessary though?
RaiXira
I mean, is it gonna result in death, disability, or serious injury if you don't have the procedure? Then it's necessary.
llortamai
What if it's the result of rape or incest? Or to someone who can't take care of it?
RaiXira
Not necessary, not medically. Now, I'm p-choice, so I'd still support it. I only meant that it wouldn't be hard to define "necessary" here.
itstotallynotwhatyouthink
If they cannot raise the child then adoption is an option. Who knows, their child may end up having an awesome life!
AskBachIveGotMoreCockThanSmithAndWesson
Except that's exactly what they are. Take note of the church that essentially wanted the mom with the dead fetus to keep carrying it.
itstotallynotwhatyouthink
I don't deny radicals exist and I'm not defending those people, they're idiots.
AskBachIveGotMoreCockThanSmithAndWesson
There's a term for pro-life people who accept that abortions are necessary. It's called "pro-choice"
itstotallynotwhatyouthink
Well the difference is, pro-life people believe life begins at conception and life should be preserved if at all possible.
AskBachIveGotMoreCockThanSmithAndWesson
So what if the woman miscarries? By technicality, her body is ending a human life. Thus it would make her accessory to murder.
chardlz
Yep. In fact the Catholic church has that opinion... In the case that a life is at stake it's deferred to medical professionals
Meowsma
What you're describing isn't an abortion; it's a life-saving procedure that has a negative ancillary effect. Principle of double effect.
Meowsma
An abortion is a procedure elected for the specific purpose of terminating a pregnancy and is always gravely immoral.
thecactusfucker
You and I have very different definitions of 'immoral', friendo, and I'd thank you not to state yours as an absolute truth.
Meowsma
I replied to a comment about the teachings of the Catholic Church; he was misunderstood about church teaching so I gave the Church's answer.
wailbait
Well, kind of. Surgical removal of the fetus is sometimes allowed, but medical abortions are not. It's pretty fucking stupid.
TemporaryImgurian
Catholic doctors in Poland are allowed to refuse abortion because it's against their conscience
DataLady
This is patently false in every way
chardlz
https://gyazo.com/ca009196cffa4c1c30f55294d30d6299 From the Catholic Encyclopedia... I'll link the original if you want
MeowWoof
Then why was the RC Hierarchy supporting Ireland's 8th amendment?
SirsMadeline
Wrong. Catholic hospitals have let women die on the table in deference to the fetus. The church is full of assholes.
iamnotbasic
Except the Catholic Church vocally supports legislation around the world that restricts access to abortion even in life-threatening cases...
Neoptelemus
^^^This, I mean look at what is happening in Poland. Now they're pushing for a complete ban even in cases of rape or danger to the mother.
chardlz
They believe abortion is loss of human life one way or the other but take a utilitarian approach to the matter that if the good can outweigh
MeowWoof
I need an example of the actual modern church actually supporting a pro-medical abortion law.
chardlz
the bad it would be okay https://gyazo.com/ca009196cffa4c1c30f55294d30d6299 here's a snippet from the catholic encyclopedia.
chardlz
I'm personally Pro-Choice, for the record, but I was raised Catholic so I know a thing or two about doctrine, not like I had a say :P
Meowsma
What you linked is valid teaching, but you're misunderstood about its application. If there's one thing the Church ISN'T it's utilitarian.
Thehumanracestinx
That's completely not true. In MANY Catholic countries and Catholic hospitals,Doctors will let a woman die before giving her an abortion,the
chardlz
That's different from what I was always taught in Sunday School... 1/2
chardlz
https://gyazo.com/ca009196cffa4c1c30f55294d30d6299 This is a snapshot from the Catholic Encyclopedia from 1907, I can link you the site too
sufferinsuccotash
1907? Seems outdated
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
The pope's official stance is the stance of the catholic church
Flyndaran
Like when he talked about atheists getting into heaven then had to hastily back peddle?
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
Can I get a trusted source on that? I don't remember hearing about him taking that back, it would be unlike him.
Thehumanracestinx
Even when the fetus is already deceased.
MSA25
Thats when the husband kills the doctor
Starcatcher1986
No, by definition, that's pro-choice. Pro-choice doesn't mean "Yay! Abortions are fun!". It means sometimes they're necessary.
thundercactus
Can we have a new option? Pro-medically-required?
frodotheha
Medical necessity is not choice.
Starcatcher1986
This post included two very black and white cases. Medicine can be much more vague. Diagnoses of 100% mortality rate are exceedingly rare.
destinoz
That's absolutely wrong. Pro-choice is abortion for any reason the mother chooses, medically necessary or not. Her body, her choice.
thisisnotenoughyet
Most of the Pro-Lifers I know agree on some exceptions.
SilentScript
Maybe literally but most people refer pro-choice as abortion whenever before (I think it's 3rd trimester not sure) for any reason.
MacRockatansky
So how do you distinguish between this level of pro-choice, and the "Yay! Abortions are fun!" level of pro-choice?
Starcatcher1986
That's my point. There's nobody there in the straw-man camp of "Yay! Abortions". Why create a name for a position that doesn't exist?
MacRockatansky
In fact I would argue that the number of people insisting "ALL ABORTIONS EVER ARE THE DEVIL" are so small in number to be a strawman as well
MacRockatansky
Hyperbole of course. But there is certainly a distinction between abortions as a means of contraception and abortions as a medical necessity
Starcatcher1986
They're currently debating a total ban in Poland. No hyperbole involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Poland#Current_debate
Starcatcher1986
In theory, "medical necessity" could work, but in practice, women have died because their doctors were afraid of legal repercussions.
IAmNotASkeleton
Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.
JohnnyTitelips
Not necessarily. If it's to save a life, that's necessity, not choice.
QuazMasta
Incorrect. Incorrect in so many ways that I cannot count. I always support the choice that leads to the best condition of human life. I >>
QuazMasta
never support a woman's "right" to "decide what to do with her body". I don't support choice, I support life. A mother's life counts too.
VinnieJonesDiary
See the thing about rights is that you don't have to support them, and a women's right to body autonomy is just that, it is a human right.
QuazMasta
But in many cases she made a choice to undertake an act that resulted in a human life growing inside her. She has no right to end that life
Kamasu0Tra
I think you misunderstand what "rights" actually are, if you think you don't need people to accept and agree with them.
superafleck
if baby is healthy, mommy is healthy, sex was done in consent & fun. she just doesn't want it cos she broke up with dad. is there a choice?
bezuer
Are you stupid?
manimatr0n
The answer is "It's none of your fucking business."
VinnieJonesDiary
Yes, because she has a right to her body.
superafleck
so does the small human being in her belly
SirsMadeline
there's always a choice. Pregnancies are full body changers, expensive, time consuming. All that matters is if it the woman wants to be preg
superafleck
the choice (imho) was already taken & decided when 2 adult decided to have unprotected sex.
SirsMadeline
Sex is not consent to pregnancy. And sex with birth control, even if it fails, explicitly says no consent to pregnancy.
PamelaSplooshPoovey
Exactly! I'm 100% pro-choice. However, the irresponsible people who repeatedly use abortion as a form of birth control can fuck right off.
VinnieJonesDiary
I'm 100% pro motor bike, but all the irresponsible people who don't wear helmets, and do backflips while riding should fuck right off.
Flyndaran
I doubt there really are that many of them. It's a harsh risky procedure compared to using condoms. At most they're ignorant.
PamelaSplooshPoovey
I don't think there are that many of them. They probably make up a small minority, but they are out there.
chrishallett83
Because there are SO MANY people doing that, right? What with how cheap abortions are, it must be a daily thing for some folks.
PamelaSplooshPoovey
Yup that's exactly what I said, that sooo many people do it. Come on. It's a small number, but they exist.
chrishallett83
[citation needed]
sputniknoodle
Is this sarcasm? Because in some countries, they are. Here it's 2 times 1.60 euro. Still wouldn't go through that again for the life of me..
chrishallett83
Yeah I was being sarcastic. In reasonable countries they are cheap, otherwise they cost a shitload.
Glidingboulder
The mothers life is a life, if a medical condition threatens it, we need to do what we can to fix it, to watch someone die is retarded,
DatAssterisk
Welcome to religion!
superafleck
im pro life. that include mom's life. so yeah. if that was the case. it's up to mom & her doctors.
sumowoman
So you're pro-choice.
ToShellWithYou
Sounds like "pro life-saving abortion" but anti "abortion as a means of birth control" perhaps?
Corrodias
Then what's the word for folks who think abortions shouldn't be limited only to "necessary" situations?
Andalite
That's still prochoice bud
Corrodias
That's unfortunate. I like when we have different words to call different things. Can we call the "when necessary" folks "semi-choice"?
Andalite
You could but it's still functionally prochoice since prochoice covers that
LuckyEight
Smart.
Starcatcher1986
The tricky thing is defining "necessary". Is it "necessary" to abort a fetus that will live with a debilitating medical disorder? 1/?
Foxsayy
. (Descent abortion argument)
Starcatcher1986
Is it "necessary" to abort the child of rape? Is it necessary to abort the child of a 13-year old? At what probability of death 2/?
Starcatcher1986
should a mother be forced to continue carrying a child? 10%? 5%? Should a person who can barely afford to feed themselves be forced 3/?
drunkenvalley
Prochoice is the catch phrase for "I think abortion needs to be available at the mother's discretion, not someone else's."
Flyndaran
If you believe that the one getting the operation aka the woman defines necessary then you're full on pro-choice.
Corrodias
1) The impression I got from Starcatcher1986 is that "necessary" is determined socially, not by an individual woman. It's hard to see how
Corrodias
4) Regardless, there are three groups. Please name them for me: "no abortions", "abortions only when necessary", "abortions when desired".
Corrodias
3) are in favor of it in situations that THEY feel it's necessary.
Corrodias
2) that could be a misunderstanding when their comment was in reply to someone calling themselves "pro-life" yet acknowledging that they
lifefeed
I disagree. Most pro-life people believe "anti-abortion, except if the mother's life is at stake." Pro-choice means, "for any reason."
DatAssterisk
No it doesn't. Not even close.
PirateRubberDuck
"for any reason" this means it is the mothers reason and not held to the moral values of others.
Corrodias
Alright... but then it's not limited to situations the law deems "necessary", is it?
PirateRubberDuck
Which law? The law is different all over the world.
meaninglessexistence99
no idea why you got mauled with downvotes. you're completely correct...
lifefeed
Eh. So it goes.
daveisamonster
I see you like to make things up that's nice.
lifefeed
Many pro-lifers (including politicians) do, in fact, not oppose abortion in cases when the mother's life is in danger.
daveisamonster
Before you said most. Your story is full of holes.
remix96
Though most reasons generally not have pretty sound logic behind them like I won't be able to raise it properly or one of us will die
DomesticFire
I agree with your comment; pro-life people I know would totally abort if (like the post said) the baby was bleeding out/unable to be saved1/
DomesticFire
Pro-choice has the "I don't feel like having a baby right now so let's just scrape it out" connotation. Which I am very against. I think 2/
DomesticFire
both arguments have pros and cons but, you know, people could also 'not be silly and wrap their weenies', then this wouldn't be an issue.3/3
thestorkasaurus
Man, it would be really bad if much of the conservative pro-life movement also opposed birth control as part of sex education, wouldn't it?
NGC5189
Pro-Choice is about giving a woman the right to choose to get an abortion based on the factors that she and the fetus would face
Corrodias
If the one and only factor is her desire, then doesn't that mean "for any reason" is accurate? "Necessary" has no meaning there.
lifefeed
I don't think we disagree. "For any reason" isn't an inaccurate description. You can, in fact, get an abortion for any reason.
humblefish
If you live in the right place, and have the right amount of money, otherwise that's not necessarily true at all.
NGC5189
I think it's less about making "any reason acceptable", and more about preventing "any reason from being barred as unacceptable".