CaptainBackPain
35190
1172
17
Jul 4, 2026 11:36 AM
CaptainBackPain
35190
1172
17
ScammyMcScammer
Don't underestimate this. America has already proven itself that it can't be trusted. The place is full of morons.
OtisTDrunk
KahootChamp
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1cml5dXNveWIzczNianQwNTI0ZXFibXc5bGR6bGd3endqNDI4YzM3ZSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/XvjC06Gh9lhfZNBNIM/200w.webp
BestofUwU
somethingstupidandclever
Look, it's probably going to be Gavin, and we can be disappointed at that, but when he inevitably wins the primary we have to show the fuck up and vote in the aipac supported democrat. I dont like it. But its better than all this. Baby steps. Id love mamdani or aoc or buttigieg. But if they dont run or dont win the primary we freaking have to go with the lesser of the two evils.
JustAPileOfCats
Democrats have tempted fate before like this and it went south fast, so let's not try that again, yeah?
Bizarkly
JD Vance *also* presumed that HE will be the Republican candidate. Ted Cruz would like a word with him -- out behind the woodshed...
Sebastopol140
linexnewt
The republican party and the supreme court would never let a woman win. Please... convince me otherwise.
faethorferenc
00110001001110010011100000110100
Don't underestimate him, could bring a really comfy couch as VP.
myotherusernameisalreadytaken
You should simply ignore the spots and crusty areas.
Colbar68
This comfy? Lol
xenjamin
Omg I love her sooooooo much!!!
NKato
Honestly, she's better off helping lead the charge to wrest control of the Democratic party from the establishment, by putting Chuck Schumer out of a job.
POTUS is just one piece of the calculus. You don't elect presidents by themselves after all.
cbomb707
JD Vance or Tucker Carlson, or any neo-N candidate will be their nominee after distancing themselves from Trump as being 'anti-Israel' in a true antisemitic position. They're going to whitewash all of Trump's horrors and pretend he was good on everything 'until Epstein' or 'until Iran'. She has been WAY too quiet these days. Get ready to get outflanked by the right, from the left!
HolyFreakingToast
she would make a fantastic senator!
tomgordon55
vote blue
TheobromineAddict
Yes… I love AOC, and I would vote for her, but in the existing voting population I don't think she's electable. If she did win, then the entire Republican apparatus would be completely dedicated to making her fail, so nothing useful would get done during her term.
hyptosis
Yeah, we can't afford any losses right now, even if the reasons are absolutely absurd. As long as people who are racist bigots incapable of reading or writing are allowed to have the same voting power as an adult human, we have to start playing it smart and careful.
karcain
they would do that anyway, they spent 2nd term obama and biden focused only on sabotaging anything that could look like a dem win, even at their own expense
FaecalJacksonPollock
eastend666
Sassy!
Ivalicenyan
She'd lose running for the presidency against Vance. AOC could have a spotless record, say all the right things, win all the debates, have all the right qualifications, fuck none of the couches, but America would still fuck over the right candidate for any male candidate simply because a woman in the highest seat of power doesn't sit right with them.
mountingstepladder
that smile says she just heard a ridiculous suggestion
IrvingSchwinglepuck
clanker go home
jlist
Unpopular opinion, if Dems run another woman, we're going to lose another election.
Xerxes4242
Dunno about that, but if the DNC fucks with the primaries or keeps chasing the votes of Bush era war criminals and the imaginary centrist swing voters they will lose for sure.
unluckyandbored
If AOC runs for President, she'll lose. This country elected a rapist over a woman. TWICE. We are not going to elect a woman to President. Maybe someday, but sure as fuck not now. She won't get the nod anyway. The DNC will bury her and give the nod to Newsom. Then we might get 4 years of establishment Dems doing fuckall to fix the damage Trump did.
Sneertm
You most likely correct. But she can run for Vice President. Election is always a duo. Those who voted Trump chosen also that JD fellow.
0xBADA55
Jesus .. get that man to a Hospital .. STAT
commentsivehadafew
With a couch as his running mate
AdrianDunne
"running"
Jewdakris
Ashley Furniture is her name
slopwizard
Wouldn't that one be the candidate for first lady?
kecvtc
first couch
myotherusernameisalreadytaken
You should simply ignore the spots and crusty areas.
LibrarianOfThunder
I think the joke is she is referencing how a recent poll showed her defeating Vance in a head to head election. It's not just her being cocky. That said, I do worry about how racist and sexist this county is.
Elonth
sorry but polls don't mean shit. They really don't. They can give us a rough estimate at maybe POSSIBLE outcomes. Where you poll how you poll all makes a difference. The very fact it is a poll makes a differecne as some people will not answer polls because they are an invasion into their immediate life and an annoyance. The very act of asking is in itself a scheuing metric.
jankyupeblik
Polling actually accounts for this. "But Clinton" you might say. Except polling knew ahead of time that Sanders would've done really well and Clinton was always going to be close. And that's to say nothing of the massive corruption we've seen in the past three decades at least.
Elonth
"but clinton" Your not a fan of history I take it?
jankyupeblik
History where someone said Dewey won a race that Truman actually won? What would you say is the specific relevance to this discussion?
Elonth
they said he won based on the votes that were already in and the polling data.
The EDITOR OF THE NEWS PAPER. Used polling data that aligned with the metrics they were seeing before the finish line of the election had actually happened.
Thats literally what i'm warning you about. Taking polls as a sure thing. You cannot say we turned the ship around/we will win the votes/we can fix this we did it! Then pat yourself on the back because some randomly selected people said ya we we won.
1
karcain
i think the joke is that JD vance is the only person on the planet with less charisma than ted cruz. put mr "just give me whatever makes sense" donut on a stage against her in a debate, and she'd be delighted
Ifekinlovesauerkraut
Yeah. Where did I hear that one already again....?
kodudScifiSmuggler
Why is everyone talking about "Hillary" and "Kamala," and not "Clinton" and "Harris?" Why is everyone saying "Trump" and "Obama" and "Vance" but not "Donald" and "Barrack" and "JD"?
Something1Said
Mostly to do with the branding those people ran with. Obama's marketing all used his last name. Hillary's didn't.
whatsisname
People regularly refer to Kamala Harris as Harris and did in the campaign. Clinton was often referred to as Hillary in the campaign because a) it's easy to distinguish from a not-irrelevant other Clinton, and b) her actual campaign ran on Hillary's first name for branding (remember the H arrow logo?) It's not just some kind of disrespect to the two women to use their first names.
FellaWithUmbrella
For MAGAts Vance’s wife and kids are just proof of the Great Replacement Theory. Only way that they would approve him, is that he get divorced and marry Erika Kirk.
Munchman347
And then deport his Brown wife and kids...
thedarkcanuck
Man I forgot about EriKa KirK
TheobromineAddict
I see what you did there. Good one.
Hovencl00f
A very perceptive comment. Vance wants a White Christian Republic and he has a bunch of brown kids that I really doubt are likely to be dedicated Catholic Christians.
TheoryOfRelativeTea
Apparently they raised their kids Christian and his wife goes to church with them but she's still Hindi, I think. Whether they're dedicated, I have no idea.
Hovencl00f
Well, neither do I, but it is my observation that when parents belong to different religions, as a rule the kids tend to be less religious as adults. Time will tell, not that it is likely to matter to people outside the family.
TheobromineAddict
The Hindi person is very much open to the idea that all gods are the same God.
layinginbedfeelinglikeaquesarito
If she runs in 2028 the DNC is handing the White House to the RNC
imredheaded
If she runs in 2028 and wins the primaries, then Democratic voters chose her. It isn't like 2024 where the DNC chose someone.
layinginbedfeelinglikeaquesarito
Primaries don’t make generals.
imredheaded
What? Primary elections literally define who is in the general election ballot for both major parties.
layinginbedfeelinglikeaquesarito
The people who vote in primaries are a fraction of the people who vote in generals. You can get an AOC through a primary, but you can’t get her past the majority of Americans who only know the slander the RNC has spewed for a decade and corporate DNC hasn’t stopped. Democrats could choose her but America won’t. America isn’t ready for a woman yet; it’s barely ready for the black man that was there, he’s still their demon. You don’t play your cards, you play your opponent.
imredheaded
What you say is also true for the RNC though. Republicans just do a better job at getting people to fall in line because they actually support their candidates better. If Mamdani keeps doing well and other DSA people that got elected continue to do well it'll be impossible to ignore their effectiveness in 2028. If Trump keeps doing what he's doing, 2028 will be the best time ever for actual progressive policy.
bitemark
America has shown twice now they will absolutely pick the worst candidate instead of a woman
Imjurbro
Add brown, young, pretty, from NYC … I can’t even imagine.
Elonth
also openly a socalist. That is right leaning americans dogwhistle training to piss and shit themselves out of fear. Because to them socalism=communism. They do not know the difference. If by throwing her up as the candaite we automatically draw a line of at least 40% if not 45% of all voters will not vote for her FROM THE DROP. It could literally be a living plague that said its first act as president would to kill all 1st borns and children under 2 and they would still vote for it over a woman
Imjurbro
I wish we could get away from the terms. They seem pretty meaningless to me. Just state a platform. Like when Fox made the mistake of actually stating the horrors under “Democratic Socialism.”
GrandmasterSpank
I remember Obama jokes about Trump running. I didn't like that joke at all. I don't like this joke either. A socialist woman of color vs a white guy? Americans are far too racist, misogenyst and capitalist indoctrinated to vote for AOC. Vance would win.
Imjurbro
Yea, they want her to run for a reason. Solid burn though. She could maybe be VP and break America in. But we also -really- have to remember the country is not NY, or even CA.
annoyingpeoplewithmyheathencomments
I think she could win if it's not rigged, Harris would have won if it wasn't rigged
jankyupeblik
I mean Obama was already term limited at the time, and there is literally nobody as thin skinned as Trump in the entire world. So it isn't quite a parallel, and it never will be for at least another hundred years. Vance can't win anything, he's not Trump and he's not one of those pretend republicans who think they exist outside of Trump. He has no base.
TyrCarter
was about to comment something like that. It's a good idea on some fronts but it will absolutely not work and the story of democrats throwing elections will continue. Like they did with Hilary and Kamala. Wish it was different (well except hilary, that woman gives me the creeps) but you gotta pick your battles
starkeclipse
A buttigeg-AOC ticket though. I think that could pull
chuckaholic
DNC will run Newsome. Guaranteed. Even if AOC wins the primary by a landslide, they will run Newsome. They already pulled this move on Bernie and ran Hillary. They will do it again.
alex5775
I hope you're wrong, because I don't think Newsome could've beat Trump either. The Democrats tend to try to capitulate to the middle which is where you'll find the "as close to a Republican without definitely voting Republican" voters and THAT'S the demographic that's less likely to even consider voting for a woman. And do you know what they also hate? Californian politics.
LonelyHumanBoy
Newsome will not beat Trump or Vance. He's disliked by his own base and the majority of progressives despise him. He would be the male equivalent of a Hillary campaign: Disliked by everyone they need to court at the ballot. The only reason Newsome would win the primary is because the DNC will force it on us like they did last time, since he is most in line with their corporate interests foremost. Voting for him likely wouldn't change much either; he's establishment, he'd likely work with the 1/2
LonelyHumanBoy
MAGA admin plants rather than purging them like a competent leader would to prevent further corruption while in office. 2/2
akafluffy
Vance couldn't win a popularity contest in his wedding bed, yes Americans are by and large racist and misogynistic, but Vance has negative charisma, literally any republican but him might beat her banking on people not knowing them, but we know how useless Couchfucker is, so he may be the Democrats best hope for next election
Elonth
I hate to say it but you are right. IF we have to choose between giving the billionaires/racists/republicans a 3rd chance at bat to turn our country into a captalisitic hellscape with no chance of escape/turning it around we have to go with a white guy. It sucks But we can work about being more inclusive for everyone AFTER we cross that initial line and have democrat majority/presidency. Then we can look to replace the incumbant democrats with progressive socalists and put the guiderails back.
alex5775
I'm not convinced that's entirely true. The women we've seen run before ostracized the left to try and pick up the undecided between Republican and Democrat vote in the center. This is what democrats tend to do, and it makes sense in a way a vote otherwise going to your opponent is worth 2 non voters voting for you. But the closer to Republican someone is, the more likely they are to refuse voting for a woman, it was and is a really dumb demographic for them to try to pick up
SinisterSlaw
Give it 10-15 years.... assuming democracy is still a thing in America.
GrandmasterSpank
I dont think USA is a democracy right now. 2024 was their last 'free and fair' election and they gave it away to a guy who literally said 'vote for me one more time and then you'll never have to vote again'.
Kingdomonsterdeath
2024 wasn't even free and fair. Musk and Trump stole that election. It wasn't even hard. Billionaires shouldn't be able to buy elections but they can in USA.
GrandmasterSpank
I dont think they did. Kamala lost millions and millions of votes in blue states where the GOP doesnt control the machines. She ran a good campaign till around july because they thought "we have the left wing vote in our pockets, lets try to get some right wingers too". They muzzled Tim Walz, they gave Cheney (!!) a podium. Her swing to the right combined with her bad Palestine stance is why she lost.
Kingdomonsterdeath
And Musk and Trump cheated. You don't go from the least liked president in US history, a convicted felon president, an insurrectionist president, to winning all 7 swing states by a large enough margin that is just enough to not trigger hand recounts. They were both poor candidates, but Kamala was going to win. Trump was going to prison and had to win through any means necessary. Every first world intelligence agency was putting up warnings about the results.
MCNewYorkLives
I just want a bland, straight white guy to run. If we can get them to win 2-3 times in a row as they fix all this shit, THEN we can talk about having a woman or a minority. I just can't deal with them putting up a decently competent woman and seeing them be beaten by a literal pile of fascist shit, all while the country and world falls down the crapper
forelle
With that spirit he would, yeah.
Stanistani
Vance. Vance has something Trump does not. Wimpiness. A kicked-dog attitude he tries so hard to compensate for. Trump wouldn't ever have someone with his gigantic ego on the same ticket. The MAGAs I know of detest him. If we're going to get a woman of color as President, someone who gets down in the dirt and gouges eyes - like AOC - could win.
HolyFreakingToast
yes, we cannot have another woman running in 2028. we really need to win this one!
CoucousCamembert
you are absolutely right
ThinkThisOut
I’m a conservative. She’d win.
zombiejedediah
Conservative equals stupid and/or uneducated, and with no ability to judge politics outside of fear of coloured people & love of tax breaks for the rich.
ProjectDA
it doesnt necessarily, but it does attract them. conservativism is always on the wrong side of history. thats because its always about bring power back under the control of the elites. its not 'balance the budget' or other slogans. Nat-Cs are conservatives, they want to stripe everyone of power, wealth and choice. taking us back to a theocracy. and the people most willing to live in those worlds? the uneducated and the stupid.
ThinkThisOut
Seems like a lot of words to fling at a person simply for saying who’d win.
zombiejedediah
Not the only thing you said
CanadianLadyMoose
I thought she was aiming to be senator for life to have the long term power to enact change, cause after presidency I guess you cant keep doing politics? (Not american, not sure) https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ZHhyd25qNDRqZjQxNW9pbjVvY3Q4cmtucGI3czRsZDJ4M3R6MGE4diZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/jPAdK8Nfzzwt2/200w.webp
RowanUnderwood
Yup - we lost against Trump because we ran a woman. God I hate humans. That said? We should still act AS IF sanity is possible. The only other option is to become one of them.
rodcon
I don’t like it either. I’d love to see her as president but Republicans can only beat women.
victor810
Run her! If she loses, this cess pool of a country deserves more of what it has sown. I’m so tired of folks hedging the vote with paltry political people. AOC is a righteous goddess who dwarves the right’s morality and needs to guide us toward the glorious future we need.
iExplainTheJoke
There were voters that voted for Trump and AOC never say never
noonehasthisoneyet
You must also remember that America isn’t just racist white men. It’s racist black men, conservative immigrant men, women who hate other women. America isn’t ready nor do we deserve AOC. Sadly we need a white man running and winning for us to get back to normal but after that leftist white man doesn’t do things fast enough we’ll get another maga republican. America never learns
colderfish
I thought that too, but the reality is that the people scared off by a woman of color who would actually vote Democrat are not going to suddenly flip parties like in the olden days. The modern issue is getting your own people to the polls. To do that, you need young and energized people. Not people who see their favorite candidates kneecapped, their policies compromised, their hopes dashed. They vote "blue no matter who", but they won't knock on doors, phone bank, convince Grandma to vote, etc
ButtscratchMcPherson
US has shown twice that we'll put ANYONE into the White House but a woman. Too many people on the left and center will find excuses on why they can't vote.
crazySleepDancer
This part. A lot of people are only too happy to find an excuse to not do ANYTHING. like show up to vote. It's not that hard people. If you don't exercise your right to vote, then STFU and go sit at the kids table.
toast667
A white marine who served as vp with the cult leader? Fuck, vance has a better shot than i think most of us would like to admit.
UnimpressedButNaked
Was about to post the same thing.
zombiejedediah
This. Coloured AND a woman? They could run Moscow Mitch's corpse against her and win.
crazyspelling
AND Californian! She was a horrible choice for VP, too. I bet Stacey Abrams could've taken at least one swing state.
BesticlesTesticles
So you agree it’s a terrible idea for the Democrats to nominate her then?
Good. We shouldn’t play identity politics in 2028 (if there even is an election in 2028, which is looking less and less likely) cause we will lose.
The only thing that matters is making sure Trump doesn’t get a third term, or is replaced by someone even worse. I’m
torquemada90
Agree. As much as the socialists want to do good, the majority of Americans don't actually want them so they don't really have chance now.
Tobecontinued1992
Eh not really. Pretty sure Kamala would have won if the dumb fucking fucking bitch sprinted to be "im just mixed George Bush with a pussy, look at me kissing, hugging and thanking dick cheney. Cause we all know the iraq war is awesomatical."
RecurringNightmare
absolutely...i said it when harris was nominated...a huge bunch of american voters are racist and misogynistic, and too comfortable in their lifes and finances to care for dems vs reps in a meaningful way...and as a democrat you need those non-carers to vote for you because 1/3rd or voters vote red anyways because of brainwashing...reps start with 33%, dems start at 0%, they need every vote they can get...and those non-care voters will take any excuse to vote red, shes a woman, shes brown, shes>
RecurringNightmare
> too young, shes too radical, blablabla...as i said when harros was nominated, dems need to nominate the whitest white male hetero cisgender whatever stereotype non-controvers guy they can find and just win the damn election in a landslide...instead they chose to raise the difficulty for themselves by nominating a brown woman and lost...absolute idiots...its harsh and disgusting, but americans are not ready for a female president...deal with it, act accordingly...dont dream...win! <<<
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
I agree with everything except het being a socialist. She's a social Democrat. Regulated capitalism with a social safety net.
GrandmasterSpank
I mean Fox will just simply say she's a socialist and half of America's heads would explode from anger.
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
That's true but it's kinda backfiring right now. They spent so long calling capitalist ghouls like Chuck Schumer "socialists" that now they don't really have a way to differentiate them from people more to the left. Zohran is closer to socialist than pretty much any US politician. Still socdem, but much closer than Sanders or AOC. But they still only have the word "socialist." So it's hard to explain to their thralls why he's so much "worse."
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
2) I'm Canadian. So many of these right wingers still call our uber capitalist PM "Marx Carney" and "Comrade Carney." Dude is literally a capitalist banker.
Poppypoppoppop
At this rate, how many MAGA went bankrupt because of Trump actions? I am eager to know by the next election. If they are still millions to vote Republicans by then, they deserve to be milked out of their every last breath (completely ruined by the GOP)
GrandmasterSpank
MAGAts died and went bankrupt in his 1st term and still voted for him in 2020 and again in 2024. It's a cult. There is NOTHING Trump can do that makes them not vote for him. I bet he could fuck and kill a 13 year old in the middle of the street, live on TV, and they would still vote for him over a 'socialist black woman'.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Yeah just completely ignore how shitty and worthless both of his opponents were.
GrandmasterSpank
By 2028, the GOP will have implemented a lot more voter suppression than in 2016, 2020 and 2024. So thats one big hurdle for AOC to tackle. The next hurdle is the Red Scare. Americans are still primed thinking socialism is bad. It;s been baked into American society since the 1950's. The majority of American above 40 is skeptical about socialism and probably wont vote for her just on that point. Young people want socialism but the vote in far smaller numbers. So thats another problem. 1/2
GrandmasterSpank
Then there is the '- of color' problem. Hillary didnt have that problem and still lost. And then there is the 'woman' problem which Vance doesnt have even though he's heavy on the eyeliner. AOC would win when the maximum voting age is 50. But she will not win in current climate. Especially not if Trump dies a year from now and Vance gets a chance to stabilise things a bit.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Yeah NYC is just a an out of touch small town of [checks notes] several million people of all walks of life.
GrandmasterSpank
Oklahoma voted against raising their own minimum wage. I think you underestimate how stupid, how racist people are. NYC is an exception, not the rule.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
And Kansas voted to protect abortion rights. I don't give a damn about podunk flyover shitholes.
narniasreal
No, but New Yorkers are comparatively better educated and more affluent and live in a more diverse community than the average US citizen. All these aspects makes them more likely to vote left. To think that New Yorkers are representative of the average American is foolish.
Frencheeseater
LuminoZero
Look, I'll say it flat out.
If America is so racist that they will do this, then the country deserves to collapse. Full stop. If we're THAT far gone then anything different is just delaying the inevitable.
OrionJC
Agreed, sadly I think only a white guy Dem can win in '28. Someone like a Mark Kelly. Let's get her in the Senate where she can be a thorn in the side in time the party wants to drift right.
Hovencl00f
I like the idea of Whitehouse in the White House. But we also need him in the Senate.
OrionJC
He's got the name for it!
hsalonen3000
Vance would win and I don't like that at all. Your country needs a strong democratic president to repair the damage Trump did. Or atleast try.
..and you forget homophobic, there was Pete Buttigieg, who was white and man, but him being gay will just not work for you. In Europe we have a gay president in Latvia.
MaMIL
As in the Netherlands.
Lordborgman
Indeed, I think the only candidate that would have a decent chance of winning and still being relatively progressive is JB Pritzker. Newsom would have the best chance, but he's too much of the non progressive type to really make any difference. I would absolutely have wanted AoC, Bernie etc, but they just have less chance of winning due to moderates, racists, sexists, etc.
RecurringNightmare
being a democrat alone would be enough of a difference...like, i get that newsom is hated because hes pure establishment, i agree...but its not about picking the best candidate for politics, its about picking the best candidate for winning...and newsom can win i think...and just by taking over he will stop trumps team from continuing their nonsense, plus he got the power to reverse those staff changes and operational changes in all the government branches reps made to get their people in...>
RecurringNightmare
> like, he doesnt even need to do amazing socialist politics, he just needs to stop the fascist takeover and revert their power grabs, and even being super pro-capitalist newsom will realize he needs to do that in order to get anything done, cant operate a government if half the staff tries to sabotage you because they work for the former team still...dems need to win and stop trump in the first place, then care about everything else once they are in charge...small steps...<<<
alex5775
I don't think Newsom would have a chance because the moderates that the Democrats love to appeal to tend to both hate and be very propagandized against California. And with Newsom they couldn't pivot left either because he's got a terrible track record on trans rights and homeless issues. I think AOC would have a shot because she seems smart enough not to put her energy towards appealing to moderates who wouldn't vote for a woman anyway and would be better at energizing the untapped left
Someshithead241
If you think its purely down to race and gender, you're an idiot.
CliffWestern
You take the wrong lessons out of lost elections. America is racist but Kamala lost because she sucked as a candidate and excited nobody. Excitement is REQUIRED to win elections. Especially with voter suppression. If she runs a progressive campaign she would be one of our best shots.
RecurringNightmare
excitement...sure...if you gotta chose between having a boring burger or an exciting pile of dogshit for dinner, you chose the latter? really? everybody with a brain voted for harris, everyone brainwashed voted for trump, and some dumb idiots also voted for trump despite him being awful and incompetent, and those people didnt ignore his awfulness and incompetence because hes exciting, there is nothing exciting about trump at all...they voted for him because hes not brown and not a woman...
CliffWestern
You are not taking the correct meaning from my statement. I am not making a statement for why people voted for Trump. I'm making a statement for why Kamala didn't get more votes. There are also recent migrants who did vote for him. We can shrug and complain about how propaganda makes people stupid or we can also acknowledge that half measures don't work as election promises nor do they work as policy designed to thwart fascism. Nobody is interested in a half measure candidate while they suffer.
Trelfar
Were we watching different elections? Trump rallies in 2024 were half empty while Kamala's were packed to the rafters. He won because his supporters are foul, racist, misogynists.
CliffWestern
Turnout needs to be better for dems then republicans because the system was rigged for them even before they started down their recent batch. Saying that Harris wasn't exciting is not making a statement about Trumps performance.
whatsisname
And almost no one at those rallys was actually there for Kamala, they were all there for "not trump" and "team blue". Meanwhile everyone voting for trump is hardcore "that's my guy". The difference in enthusiasm is significant.
Someshithead241
Didn't realise rally numbers determined elections
[deleted]
[deleted]
Someshithead241
Clearly they aren't that good of an indicator then
Hovencl00f
I think Kamala was exciting for many, but she really did not excite non voters to get up off their butts and vote as much as Biden did. And the biggest thing about the 2024 campaign was the huge sums of money Big Oil, Musk, the Zionists and other ratbag rightwingers contributed to the MAGAnuts.
CliffWestern
Absolutely all factors. There was a clear deflating in excitement and momentum at the end. A lot of folks are impacted by voter suppression and excitement impacts whether they will show up and how many people will take the time to drive people to the polls.
Hovencl00f
It seems pretty clear to me that Kamala was the better choice. She would have mongered no wars, would not have appointed a team of greed billionaires to run our country,. and would not have spent every waking hour grandstanding. I doubt she'd have fallen asleep either, or uglified the White House, the Reflecting Pool or the rest of DC.
CliffWestern
Yeah definetly not saying she wasn't. I'm saying Democrats have to excite their base to win. The fact is democrats need volunteers to win. They need volunteers to get out the vote. The moderates (wealthier wing) that the party positions themselves for rarely show up to volunteer. The volunteers are largely made up of young folks and progressives. If you take swings at your side they won't volunteer and then you don't get the turnout you need from those who struggle to get out.
VictorDenn
She was a fucking cop with the energy of a fucking cop. She excited people who felt desperate for any alternative, but she was still felt like "you HAVE to choose this one," the DNC says so.
activeracer28
Especially with the voter suppression
GrandmasterSpank
I seriously dont think Democrats are going to win the Midterms. All Trump has to do is send in 1 fedral agent into a voting station, if the fed stays, Trump can claim that station is compromised. If the fed gets removed, he can claim the station has been compromised. It will go to court and SCOTUS will side with Trump. Another scenario is Johnson simply not recognising the votes. It will have to go to SCOTUS and guess what. Also remember SCOTUS already ruled Trump can kill pollitical opponents.
Slonato
The problem in America is that you treat republicans like adults.
torquemada90
agree, they should be treated as they are..monkeys
do7rkb5n
That sounds like something an idiotic republican would say.
Oatmealman1
That's an insult to monkeys, they are MICH more intelligent than a Republican
IdahoGardener
Her "joke" is about Trump not being around to run in 2028 for whatever reasons....
valjean
Trump isn't eligible to run for re-election (despite his comments implying he might find a way around that). The joke is that Vance is widely considered a weak candidate (because even Republicans don't like him).
joeyecho101
DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER You're right. Everybody wants trump to lose. Everybody wants Vance to lose. But what we don't have is someone we actually want to win. Someone we can support and rally around and all vote for to LEAD. It's not about seeing someone else lose. BUT.... You're right. The majority of voters in this country in 2028 are going to vote for a middle aged white hetero Christian man. Just because. Doesn't matter how qualified his opponent is, not if she's a woman, or of color, etc.
JeffGoldbum
So then why not Bernie ? Prob past middle age but ticks all other boxes no?
jasondeslin
Fuck you and your Nazi propaganda.
There are plenty of qualified Dems I would love to see win.
You're spreading the same defeatist bullshit that keeps allowing Reps to push down voter turnout.
If you don't have anything helpful to say, shut the fuck up and stop helping the other side.
Zalm
The problem is, getting to either run, or getting them to have the support of the party. Were still stuck in this medieval binary bullshit system, and if enough of the corporate bootlickers like Newsome, guess what fascist-lite version of "rich white male" we have to vote for so we dont get the facist-heavy version of "rich white male"?
jasondeslin
Let's see, murdering Nazi, or capitalist prick?... Hmmm. SO HARD TO CHOOSE. I think I'll sabotage the prick and get tens of thousands of people killed world wide so I can personally feel self righteous, and not participate in a flawed system. /s
Fuck you.
If it wasn't for pricks like you, WE WOULD HAVE BETTER CHOICES.
But because of you killing voter turnout, capitalist cunts that can get centrist votes are the best we can hope for.
Stop making things worse, you moronic asshat.
Zalm
newsome isnt a "capitalist prick"
Hes a fucking fascist-lite bootlicker who would easily cower to the nazis in a heartbeat and throw everyone under the bus to save his own skin. I might not like AOC as much as the rest, but I'm more willing to vote for her than newsome. Go peddle your propaganda somewhere else, bootlicker.
btw, newsome isnt a "better choice" anymore than biden, kamala, or clinton were "better choices". Bernie was the better fucking choice. But shills like you ruined that.
Goldensands
The truth remains the truth even when it isn't helpful. West Israel doesn't have the character, sense or decency to vote responsibility. It never did.
jasondeslin
So keep sabotaging things to throw elections to the people that ACTIVELY want the genocide.
Brilliant fucking strategy. You should write Sun Tsu's sequel.
Tell me, how did that work out last time?
Trump's family wanting to buy Gaza?
Yeah, I'm sure things would have been MUCH worse under Harris.
You absolute fucking moron.
Tuksuky
Yeah but AOC has a personality, and is funny, and tbh more Americans care for that than other nonsense.
Eleshar24
Wasn't that the same thing with Harris?
Tuksuky
Unfortunately no. She was probably one of the most awkward and not fun to listen to presidential candidates we have had in decades. The moment they announced her to replace Biden I groaned knowing that Trump won. She's just a wet noodle. AOC is the exact opposite, and would be a lot of fun to see her have a candidacy.
mksu
I'm not going to count her out, but I do think in these essentially non-skill based competitions, it's just a bad idea to say stuff like this. If you win, it does nothing for you. If you lose, people never let you live it down. I'm cool with her scoring sick burns on Republicans, but after Trump just beat two massively more qualified female candidates in the last decade when he should have crashed and burned both times, overconfidence is not a good strategy.
Dalael
Dude, Harris was so unpopular that she was the first candidate to drop fron the primary race in 2015, then she got a super late start in tne last presidential run. As for her qualification? Please... sure she had positions of power but she acted like a rightwinger or at best a centrist.
AOC is super popular, very progressive and has spent gow many years in her position now?
mksu
Reminder that her opponent was a career criminal and serial child rapist whose "qualifications" were bankrupting every business venture he has ever been a part of and being the worst human being you've ever encountered.
Dalael
I agree Harris should have won by a wide margin, unfortunately a large portion of Americans are beyond stupid.
mksu
That's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying Harris ran a flawless campaign or that AOC can't win. I'm just saying who wins an election is extremely complicated and mostly not in the hands of the candidate, even if they're skilled campaigners. This particular way of ridiculing Vance, especially in light of recent electoral history, makes me cringe.
wejustdontknow
We talk about Americas racism but not enough about its misogyny which is potentially even stronger. Black men got the right to vote before even white women. We elected a Black man before even a white woman. We're seeing the rolling back of women's rights very aggressively. America has always oppressed women.
delecti
The thing is, both of them ran really weak campaigns. Hillary got cocky and didn't campaign enough in some pivotal swing states, and discounted the appeal "the outsider" that Trump offered. And Harris was hamstrung by getting such a late start, stuck with Israel when that was very damaging, and wasn't allowed to distance herself from Biden's policies.
I'm not going to count my AOC chickens before they hatch, but she would be a *very* different candidate.
mksu
Sure, but my point is that electoral victory ultimately depends on a lot of intangibles and happenstance more than personal qualifications or even necessarily campaigning skill. Implying that someone would be easy to beat in an election is just inviting it to blow up in your face.
Not a big deal either way and I would love to vote for AOC in 2028, but I do cringe when I see Democrats say stuff like that.
HolyFreakingToast
no, she would not. in the grand scheme of things, she would be a woman who does not get elected.
Mogslie
I disagree, she would be different, but i agree, she would still lose.
HolyFreakingToast
she will make an amazing senator and that is what i hope happens soon!
dragoonwraith
Hillary, reasonably, did not trust the media to portray her fairly. Which they would not have; they never did. Unfortunately, her response to this was to disappear after the convention with the expectation that Trump would only lose position the more America saw of him. That did not happen; her lead steadily softened all that Autumn as America forgot they actually liked her when they saw her themselves (at the convention). Even so, she would have gotten away with it if not for James Comey.
dragoonwraith
I think a lot of this strategy kind of came from rationalization: this is what Hillary *wanted* to do. She didn’t want to deal with the media, and they had a theory of the campaign that would allow her to not have to. The problem with this theory is that, as unfair as the media has always treated her, they were her window to the public and vice versa. By disconnecting herself from them, she disconnected herself from the people. If she’d had a strong social media game, maybe things’d be different
joshuamcook053
U
Arbitrarynamehere
Are you sure you wouldn't prefer to end your analysis at having a second X chromosome and pretend Dems haven't been absolutely fucking awful since 2016 onward
TheNextFreud
Agreed. Started as soon as they fought against Bernie who had the winning polls
delecti
Dems have been unable to rise to the occasion for over 60 years. If we want to turn this into griping about the party as a whole, I've got plenty to say.
I'm just saying that Trump's wins are way more complicated than just "they were women and the US is sexist". The US *is* sexist, that's just really far from the whole story.
Arbitrarynamehere
That's what I'm saying. Imgur and libs in general just will not consider anything past that. Hillary and Kamala ran dogshit campaigns, and Joe only ran a half decent one because Bernie practically forced him to run further left.
Cycocidal
Hilary should never had bern the primary and had zero chance. The democratic party shoe-horned her in just to keep Sanders, who people wanted. That is how we got Trump. A good lot of Sandees supporters chose to either not vote, or vote for Trump out of spite
OshakhenneseyAyAyRonandJayQuelin
FACTS!! 💯
GrandmasterSpank
I'm 99% convinced the DNC will do exactly the same again between Newsom-AOC. In 2008 the DNC wanted to push Hillary, they underestimated Obama and Obama won. I think the DNC learned a lesson from that. They learned how to block a very popular person. Thats why they were able to block Bernie in 2016 before he got momentum. And I think they will use that same lesson for AOC-Newsom. They will forcibly try to block AOC. Leak data to the GOP or the press. And then we get Vance.
OshakhenneseyAyAyRonandJayQuelin
Preach! 💯 If Newsom gets the nomination it is because DNC knee capped anyone else especially a progressive like AOC!
GrandmasterSpank
Yup. And that is exactly why people hate the Democratic Party and that is exactly why they stayed at home in 2024 and WILL stay at home again in 2028 if Newsome is front runner.
eastend666
I'm convinced that a woman can't win in my lifetime, and it breaks my heart.
kleinbotl
Were I a betting man I'd put money on the first woman US president being a republican running on the most anti-women platform of all time
mrthewhitee
There has not been a decent woman candidate to actually run. Both Hillary and Kamala would have been considered shit even if they were men.
Hillary is the deepest of deep state and Kamala is an empty suit.
AOC at least has ideals and aspirations for the country which would go a long way with a lot of people.
America isn't as racist or sexist as the last 2 candidates would have you believe
kleinbotl
There literally isn't a "deep state" it's a MAGA conspiracy theory and you're their useful idiot for perpetuating it
ChicanoBatman
Mexico enters the chat ...
whatsisname
Hillary got more votes than the mango in the 2016 election. The USA is ready, it just needs to be a woman with some actual charisma that doesn't phone in their campaign and doesn't tour with Liz Cheney.
michaeloberg
Something like 235k votes across three swing states and Kamala would be president, and she only had 3 months to campaign and didn't separate herself from Biden's unpopularity & the Gaza genocide. It's not about being a woman it's about being a good candidate
Nuttsy
Eh. At a distance glance, I'd say she has better odds than the likes of Kamala or Newsom.
TheBigBadBonerBiter
Nah, the more tragic reality is the first woman president likely being a racist blonde white lady who looks like a Fox News anchor running as essentially a puppet for the republican party. Someone they can use to peddle even more regressive policy but claim it's "not so bad" since it's a woman saying it.
Lordborgman
That's pretty much what happened in Italy, their first woman Prime Minister is basically a Mussolini fangirl, that somehow seemed more reasonable than MAGA administration. Still a vile monster of a person though.