LittleLebowskiUrbanAchievers
135569
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Apr 6, 2023 3:36 AM
LittleLebowskiUrbanAchievers
135569
2380
26
Starbolt81
'Your father, what killed him?' 'Loyalty'
c3l3x
THeY ArE IndOcTrINaTin THa KiDs!
GrimNyrah
I loved their chemistry. She would have been a perfect little murder protégé. He'd have turned her into the royal assassin very shortly if it wasn't for the little bitch and his mom
ShimmerinStrider
They were honestly some of the best parts
xo66nt
Charles Dance took a great character and delivered genius. I watch Tywin reels on YouTube all the time.
VX7567
I loved these scenes so much. I really liked what they did with Tywin in the show.
CuddlyPervert
It really humanized the ol bastard imo.
SecondWind90
I thought it was well acted but made no sence, Tywin is the smartest man in the kingdom and he realizes Arya is a highborn in disuise while failing to put two and two together to realice she is Arya Stark. The real Tywin would at least be more suspicious
Friendlyhedgehog
Maybe, or maybe he thought she was insignificant and if he was going to spend months politicking via letters in Harrenhal anyway, he could use conversation with someone who wasn't a fucking moron. If it was just an excuse for Tywin to get screen time, that's fine with me because all his scenes are good. The intro scene where he is skinning the stag is my favorite in the whole series because of how well it's done.
msdss
Oh yeah... Before the writers fucked off to disney land.
UncleIrohnman
ah, back when this was an excellent show
Rhewin
Nothing in this show will ever aggravate me as much as watching Arya eating in a pub. Can’t even remember the episode. I was just overwhelmingly annoyed the whole scene. It was when the writers decided she was the end-all badass.
Billybillybillyporter
Yeah that was awful, she looked uncomfortable with the lines and that direction didn't work at all.
CNChapeL
I was looking forward to this when I started reading the books. Turns out the show made it up. At Harrenhall she is cup bearer to Roose Bolton not Lord Tywin and their interactions aren't as interesting. Good point for the show I guess.
BigStacksThrowItOnThemBigFatTatties
you know it's a good day when tywinn did not turn out to be a diddler of children.
NoQuestionMarksInDeclarativeSentences
All those guards struck me as so dumb, for that reason
Ash321
M'Lord!
KentKnifen
Tywin never knew she was a Stark. He knew she was no commoner and suspected she was nobility in a northern house, but never did find out the truth. Probably for the best, as he would have taken her prisoner instantly the moment he would have found out. Still, I wish they had more scenes together. Tywin certainly admired her, and no doubt found her to be more quick-witted than his own daughter.
XanZi
It was a bit forced but he's a good actor, so the screen time was enjoyable.
Jayboots
Ehhh, I think the boys would be just as much prey as the girls.
Squirtle51
Unpopular opinion: I hated this dynamic. Tywin was too smart and calculating to let a highborn he could ransom or use as trade go, especially the sister of a man he was waging war against. He doesn't care about a single person in the books or show more than for dynastic reasons. Why would he EVER speak to a commoner in a familiar or nice tone? He's the pinnacle of old blood, high society. It was out of place.
Relikk
Repostboy at it again. https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/12d48zl/one_of_my_favorite_duoswish_tywin_arya_had_more/
3KnucklesDeep
She totally held her own against one of my favourite actors. Respect.
Jerz77
SavageMyStarAnise
The House of Black and White storyline just went on and on. Didn't understand it.
InfocalypseRising
The scene where she calls him “my lord” and he’s like “if you’re gonna pretend you’re a peasant, it’s ‘milord’” is such a great exchange
anglarite
And in the Walder Frey pie scene you can notice that Arya did not learned anything from it.
xo66nt
and her come back that her mother taught her to speak proper…properly! is *chefs kiss*
RoyalWithChz
https://youtu.be/A8Wr-yrAL1c fantastic watching it again. God damn this fucking show was so fucking good.
JMassHysteria
It really was. It’s a shame that they biffed the ending so hard. And all to pursue a Star Wars movie they got taken away from them because of how bad they bungled the end of GoT. Irony is funny. It’d be funnier if we ever got his last two (or three, kill me) books. Supposedly GRRM has a clause in his will that says no one is to finish his work post mortem; unlike, say, Jordan, whose wife and chief editor was told to find the best author possible because the fans deserved the ending. Sigh.
tuuuesday
Who’s Jordan? What series is that?
mikeatike
Robert Jordan, Wheel of Time. And they got Brandon Sanderson to finish it, so they weren't kidding. Though I DNFed Jordan's books. They were so-goddamn-repetitive on the last few that I noped out.
RoyalWithChz
Sanderson was what that series needed! WoT was the best series I ever read.
IAlwaysUpvoteBeardedDragons
I liked the chemistry between Dance and Maisie but it's entirely out of character for Tywin to figure out he has a northern girl of noble birth in his hands and not realise she's Stark's escaped daughter. Even if he somehow believes Arya is still at KL the girl makes for a valuable hostage. He had absolutely no reasons to let her go.
DanSapSan
He didn't really let her go though. As per plan, he had a potentially valuable hostage in Harrenhal, a well garrisoned fortress. He couldn't have really predicted a faceless man to help her escape.
IAlwaysUpvoteBeardedDragons
Tywin leaves to war while Arya remains at Harrenhall. He would have sent her to the dungeons with the rest of northerner prisoners or even brought her along with him. If Tywin indeed realised she was Arya he made no mention of it. A hostage would be kept under watch, not pretending to be a servant.
DanSapSan
I think this discussion is mostly based on conjecture and opinion anyways, but i still see it in a different way. Tywin didn't know she was Arya, otherwise he absolutely would have leveraged her. But as a servant girl, basically a ward, she has much more value to him whenever the war ends. Whatever house she belongs to, in Tywins eyes she would already make a better heir, because he has the possibility to influence her. We don't see everything he does, and it doesn't matter because Arya escapes
DanSapSan
But i absolutely believe that he instructed the guards to keep an eye on her. Taking her with him is incredibly unwise. In theory, an army on the move is far easier to escape from than a castle. She is also of unknown value; He might believe her to be part of house Dustin, but there is no certainty. Plus, should Tywin be beaten on the field in any capacity, any and all hostages should be far away so they can be invoked.
jharasym
I have no strong reason to believe that he didn't know. Keeping her around willingly is going to be easier than imprisoning her. Guess there was the scene where she had a knife.. but maybe that's arrogance on his part.
CatsIsTheAnswer
How hard can it be to imprison a little girl? Unless she's a magical assasin of course, but that was not something Tywin knew
jharasym
If she is keeping herself around she's not trying to escape, she's not fighting them, she might be able to feed bad intel to the other side (Tywin wouldn't assume she can't get word to Robb). She's feeding herself, there's less risk of her being raped by guards and he can likely glean information from her based on "friendly conversation" or "what would you do" scenarios, knowing that she knows how her dad and brother thinks.
Feralkyn
I would love to say he had his reasons, but honestly that's faith in the *character* when I need to consider whether I have faith in the *writing.* I do not. These are the writers who had geniuses not think about the dangers of hiding in a crypt with necromancers coming :|
DemogorgonDog
“Dany just.. forgot about the Iron Fleet.” *is talked about a few episodes prior*
Barlort
I feel like these two would have gotten along swimmingly, if Joffery hadn't been such a wanker.
Targe0
Yeah, if their families had stayed on good terms, it likely would have been a powerful alliance.
HandoB4Javert
TheBoysInTheLab
Unclescam
If Arya was his kid, he'd have beaten her spirit out of her just like he did all his own kids...
Kargathia
I doubt it. They could've appreciated each other's vicious ruthlessness, but their goals were fundamentally different. Tywin wanted power to dominate others, Arya wanted power to be free from domination by others.
PaladinWiggles
I feel like "if Joffrey hadn't been such a wanker" solves about 90% of the problems in GoT.
HeywouldJablowme
I really liked the father daughter dynamic they had together if only briefly. Tywin genuinely liked her, and she didn't murder him LOL
trojanplatypus
Typing appreciated intelligence. He couldn't appreciate it in Tyrion bc he, stupidly, blamed his wife's death on him.
SoberToast
Just say got. Gotten isn't needed
kadaeux
I see something else that wasn’t needed or wanted. By us and your parents both.
Fairemont
Looks like you've gotten some downvotes for your thoughts.
FalafelWithAngeldust
That's actually one of the American—British/Rest of the World English differences. Many don't realise we don't ever say "gotten" mostly only Americans do, but that doesn't mean it's not equally correct.
LazyLaziel
For the fanfic readers: https://archiveofourown.org/works/15494880 and the answer to what could have happened. And it's excellent!
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DeusExSpockina
Fanfic, you mean that age old classic The Inferno?
maelstromverbae
The internet has ruined you. Fanfic is centuries old, porny fanfic only became 'prolific' in the 70s, and even these days there's more genfic and non-smut fiction than porn. You host need to stop searching for it :p
BeesechurgerProductions
I call what I write "What Ifs" instead. Makes it clear the hypothetical alternative world is the focus.
ScottNapalm
But could you not also frame the others as "What if.... They fucked"
breach1
.
AGiantNun
Reader here: they did absolutely fucking not
ghenghisalex
Show watchers …
pip1
One of the instances were the show actually added value to the story outside of the source material
HeywouldJablowme
Agree.
TheWayThatIsKownIsNotTheWay
the actor did such a great job playing that wanker.
stayingalive4life
This. Even though I’m the exception in that I haven’t watched a lot of GoT, I have to admit the guys played and awesome job as Joeffry.
TinyLiehon
Getting doused with Scarecrow gas at a young age will do that to you
0570
It takes a great actor to be hated by everyone
aNamelessCreature
It's such a shame that when actors do a great job playing a vile character, people assume the actor is really that nasty in real life.
OddSoull
didn't it also ruin his career and his personality by all the comments? in some way ... i forgot which dumb FB article i read that from that's probably not true
LongCommentChainAppreciator
Nah, he chose to stop acting after that and apparently he is very nice
LongCommentChainAppreciator
(From what I can remember, but it is all 3rd hand info)
OverMyDadBody
https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-joffrey-jack-gleeson-no-negative-fan-experiences/
JaceTiger
Same for the one that played Joffrey's mother (Cersei? It's been a long time since I cared about that series, book or TV)
Breaker3000
I went on a tour in Belfast where they filmed, and the impression the tour guides gave (local to where the actors stayed during filming) was that she was.....not very nice, and not very popular with the locals. Everyone else was lovely apparently.
Quixus
Yup, played by Lena Headey
BallSoupHumidity
Also Leonidas' wife in 300
PlzCheckYourWiFi
Also Ma-Ma in Dredd
BuickRiviera
She deserved better than just being killed by rocks.
HandoB4Javert
Anakindergarden
Yeah, and that whole Jamie redemption arc? "LOL, nvm!" So lazy...
beauFORTRESS
I was severely disappointed that a redeemed Jaime wasn't the one who kills Cersei.
ToSisPoS
What about the entire Red Lady subplot? Gods, it is the weirdest thing when a show based on a book goes off-book. I’m looking at you too True Blood!!
LaughingC
She deserved worse
BuickRiviera
I agree, I meant "better" as in a more cathartic downfall.
HarryDresdenIsMySpiritAnimal
Much worse
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Notthen82
"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner."
1metalnation
The men on the battlefield fight back
skyconb
The men at the battlefield are just following orders. The ones at the wedding are the ones giving those orders.
AvielMenter
A wedding gift that wouldn't have been necessary if Joffrey hadn't been such a wanker.
ThatWeirdBeard
They came up with the solution a little bit late 😂
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[deleted]
Sensiblyinteresting
That's kinda par for the course on incest royalty.
AvielMenter
King's Landing, 300 AC (colorized).
mageoflime
Even before then the Starks were gonna find out who pushed Bran out the window. Like, it was an ineffective assassination and there was gonna be blood honestly from the moment that Robert was made king instead of Ned.
AvielMenter
Yeah, though I think the consensus was that all-out war could have been avoided if Joffrey hadn't beheaded Ned.
mageoflime
Theoretically, but even if he'd let shit chill there when the Targaryen's showed up and kicked that rock it would have gone off, or one of the other factions would have figured it out and then regardless of whether Joffrey as in a coma or not Cersei would have slaughtered everyone except for Jamie to keep Joffrey safe and on the throne (at least before he super duper fucked around).
TinyLiehon
Twice an ineffective assassination. Book Geoffrey gave a Valyrian steel dagger to a servant and told to release Bran from his misery before the Royal Troupe left Greyfell
BHPaperstacks
I thought LF maneuvered it
NoQuestionMarksInDeclarativeSentences
Stannis* In the absolutely ridiculous concept that is "monarchy", Stannis is king. Aside from 1 blood sacrifice, he's pretty damn good at it.
TwoDogsFucking
These two together were great.
v
tilesmuggler
He was great in book group
IceWeaselX
Thekindofkindlyman
RydWolf
.... "Narp?"
GemsAreOutrageousTrulyTrulyTrulyOutrageous
I always did love The Hound.
t4d3jkVillain
"What the fuck is a lommy?''
TheNamesTophBeiFongSoGetMeOnThatFerry
"Whats a fucking lommy?"
JCBalance
"What the fuck's a lommy?"
TheNamesTophBeiFongSoGetMeOnThatFerry
Oh right thats the quote, loved that back then
SteerpikeSteerpike
The Wolf and the Hound was the best arc in the series.
InfocalypseRising
“If any more words come pouring out your cunt mouth, I’m going to eat every fucking chicken in this room”
itsjustplaid
Obligatory: https://youtu.be/WR_X9fxSGY4
BisAndThighHighs
A quote that's hilarious out of context.
nightwolf12
"You gonna die for some chickens?" "Someone is."
suffyr
Still to this day I get hype chills from this scene. This show deserved better
CodeWarrior
And 'lo, the kings men died for some chickens and the Hound was fed.
JustBoone
Great father daughter dynamic. He showed her how cruel the world was and helped her learn how to survive in it and she left him for dead, lil bit ironic considering he was on her list from the beggining.
FreshwaterViking
As someone who doesn't want to watch the series for context, why was he on the list?
JustBoone
At the order of the prince he rode down and killed an innocent butchers son. He followed orders was his excuse.
CuddlyPervert
Killed her friend.
HtNrN
i just rewatched GoT. Yes, the last 2 seasons are still as bad as the memes say. Really really bad.
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rusaide
Did you watch the last season? It was so bad it almost completely wiped the biggest pop culture phenomenon of a decade completely off the face of the earth
jimplaysgames10
Not sure what you mean. Seasons 4 and 5 were okay. Too bad it got cancelled after that
DanSapSan
Though i am still bitter about the way this show deteriorated, i am very glad to have found some comedians and video essayists due to the backlash. Ryan George and Glidus in particular.
Targe0
The last season is so thread bare, you can look at the memes and not miss any of the critical story points.
phalanxausage
Yeah, at some point it turned into, "The Gang Writes GOT." So fucking stupid.
TeosPWR
NaughtButOne
Sounds familiar.
austinwizardforhire
100%. All the new characters (aside from Javik) were either obnoxious, uninteresting or both. Seeing the characters from part 1 & 2 (especially 2) were the best parts of the game. The repetitive niggtmare with the kid was dumb. Ending was anticlimactic. I did like how the multi-player fit within the larger story. Overall a huge step down from part 2.
CorrugatedUrethra1995
It was just a little late to introduce teleportation into the story.
ToSisPoS
Over-arching theme: “Quit fighting over a stupid throne, because the end of the world is literally marching towards you!” Final season: “welp those snow zombies are dead. Back fighting over the pointy chair!”
Heisanevilgenius
I enjoyed it up until the last season. There were some dumb parts from the get-go but they kept it pretty compelling. The last season was just a complete trainwreck. Unbelievably stupid writing. There was not a single episode you could take seriously.
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Dany... kinda forgot they had crossbows.
damogen
I finally got around to watch the last seasons and I don't get the hate. I found the last seasons great. What is it you all hate about them?
DanSapSan
Opinions differ and so do expectations, but i'll try to explain the phenomenon. Game of Thrones started as a show that was extremely faithful to the books, with changes well suited for an adaptation. It was a show that was heavily reliant on intrigue and charcater decisions, skipping action scenes to include more scheming behind the scenes. That was due to budget constraints, but it also shaped the show and fanbase. Further, the plot was both predictable and unpredictable; heroes making
DanSapSan
mistakes was punished heavily. So, we have a show were planning takes front stage, and because we know mistakes are not easily forgiven, the intrigue becomes intriguing. Which also meant that people started theorizing themselves: Was telling information to a certain person going to be a problem later on? Many questions arose, many theories were developed. But the later seasons shifted their focus. Action scenes became common, the once flowery language was forgotten and intrigue wasn't important.
DanSapSan
Long story short, people became invested in the fantastic world of GoT, the characters and intrigue, over years. Watching it all today, when the next season isn't 1-2 years away, gives you far less time to invest yourself in characters, their nuances and the resulting theories. S7 and 8 also had a notable shift due to the writing room being interested to adress a wider audience. The language used became more similar to modern english, expressions and saying weren't utilised anymore. And instead
DanSapSan
Of focussing fully on the plot, there were meta jokes written in: Jokes that are funny but undermine the established world. Which isn't egregious, unless you are extremely invested in that universe. And because dialogue and intrigue were basically cut from the show, the focus became the spectacle without regard towards earlier worldbuilding. I could continue on for ages, describing plot points that just don't function in their universe, but i've written enough. Hope i gave some perspective.
TheNamesTophBeiFongSoGetMeOnThatFerry
Honestly GoT was so fucking good for so long, something to really look forward to every year. I might just rewatch it, up to a point...
onlymostofthetime
I actually didn't get into GoT until a year at least after the finale aired and I have to say I didn't like any of it lol. Not even the first couple of seasons. each episode bored me to tears. unfortunately every single death had been spoiled for me at that point, and that was the mainbreason a lot of people watched the show at all
Fauxcused
I think the last season was a little rushed but honestly I had no problem with it
ImgurLurkerForLife
What last 2 seasons? It's a shame they never finished the series but at least they didn't completely ruin it by rushing it, amiright?
ImgurLurkerForLife
This is what I tell myself each time I rewatch the good seasons. I prefer my version 😂
IndigoThursday
I own the first 6 series (and all the books) but I can't bear to rewatch them now I know the story doesn't go anywhere
pastaholic74
The YouTuber ThinkStory has an excellent 'how it should have ended'.
Squirtle51
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stoic000
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Poipoine
. Got
dodidodidow
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Laowai18
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superkavi
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Lulbat
Ggg
Howiedoxie
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TheArtistFormallyKnownAs
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thegreatatuin
. because I'll be checking it out
diesel01
It’s apparent that the further they went without source material the more things degraded, but it surprises me how little blame GRRM gets for that.
DanSapSan
I mean, he was on the show during seasons 1-4 as a consultant; incidentally the seasons that are the most faithful adaptations of the books. But S4 already started to change important plotpoints. Then he split from the writers room due to creative differences. No direct control over the narrative. Sure, he could have written more books in that time, but i understand why he wouldn't want to at that point. And to be honest, he doesn't owe the completion of ASoIaF to anyone.
camtin
meh, I liked it. I went in with low expectations. I thought "The Long Night" S8Ep3 was absolutely fantastic... felt like a mini-movie
Heisanevilgenius
That was the real shark jump. It was pretty well-directed so I almost didn't notice how terrible it was but the more you think about it the more of a disaster it was. After that nothing was the same.
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
You could see it?
ToasterDent
But are they... Highlander 2 bad?
JayEnfield
They are so bad that they completely scrubbed the previous 6 seasons from the international culture in a moment of collective trauma. Watching the quality go from A+ to Utter Fail was genuinely painful in a way that is goddamn fascinating to unpack. It HURT us in a way that nobody wants to talk about or be reminded of.
mastertmo
Rise of Skywalker very nearly did this for me for my lifelong love of Star Wars. Y'all have my sympathies.
ToasterDent
That's true, Highlander fans just pretend the sequel never existed, and still watch the first movie. So it's not GoT bad.
RandyRandalman
The last 3 were all terrible. Once they started making shit up past the part with Jon (you know the one) it was all garbage.
camtin
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
"It's been years... maybe don't look into nested comments about a show you don't want spoilers for?"
wormfood
Dude as a reader we were so careful not to spoil shit for the watchers, and then when the show passed the books they didn't give a fucking shit
RandyRandalman
Naw fuck it, you wanna know where Martin has left the books? Jon is still dead, no one knows where Danerys or drogon are, Barristan and Grey worm are holding down slavers bay, and Catlyn came back as an undead Lich. They just started literally throwing shit at the wall to make the rest of show.
SecondWind90
went downhill after season 4 the show died with Tywin
DanSapSan
Missing the Tysha reveal and subsequently fucking up all of Dorne was a huge problem, but D&D covered their tracks well enough.
SecondWind90
nice try Dan
celestiaequestria
GoT becomes unwatchable after Season 5, the pacing goes to garbage in Season 6 and the whole setup and ending of the season was the point where I gave up any hope of a satisfying conclusion. They couldn't top the Red Wedding and Season 7 and Season 8 are just a joke, children moving action figures around on a tabletop could come up with a more cohesive storyline.
HackerJacker
GRRM can't, if he could he was have done it by now. The thing is unfinishable because he never had a clue how to end it properly
Magus25
He's going to drag it out until he can no longer write. At that point a ghost writer will finish it so they can be to blame for falling apart.
maelstromverbae
I think he's on record saying there won't be a ghost writer.
BurrhusBacchus
I think it’s unfair to throw season 6 under the buss. You can sense the beginning some pace issues (feeling slightly rushed, not at all like s7 and s8), but it has some of the best episodes in the whole series imho
JohnMorbid
This. I really think the whole show went downhill HARD after season 4 .. 1-3 were superb , 4 was giving signs of not being up there with first three seasons and every season after fourth was worse than the last one.
sturmhauke
4 still stuck fairly close to the books, although in retrospect there were signs it was going off the rails. Tyrion and Jaime leaving on good terms instead of hating each other was the first major sign that the show had no clue how to finish the story properly.
ApolloSierra
The last 2 seasons, especially the last 2 episodes, have completely killed any interest in researching the series, for me anyway.
terribletruth
I just occasionally watch a favorite scene or two on YouTube.
Goldensands
The books hold up well while I can't bring myself to rewatch the show anymore.
Gerthquake
Not just for you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll ALWAYS prefer being left wanting more of something than wishing it had died sooner. S6 was already feeling stretchy since it was mixing the very last written plot lines with new material. I'd have much preferred it simply being mysteriously cancelled and pining for the myriad possible endings and enjoying the healthy online fandoms that would probably still be theorizing to this day. But... *gestures broadly* THAT happened.
SpitMatt
Trust me, House of the Dragon is actively redeeming those last two seasons. I'd give those a watch if I were you
Bropez
How does a series set nearly 200 years in the past have any bearing on the last to seasons of GoT?
Santorrr
It doesn't. It's earned its mediocrity all on its own.
pixelatedsoul
The great thing about HotD is the story is set. If anyone wanted to, they could look up the future of all these characters. In other words, the writers don’t have to make up the ending when they get to it.
BatmanAndCradleRobin
I tried, 2 or 3 episodes in and it didnt work for me...
ThaEnder
I made it to about 6 or 7 and realized I don't actually care about any of the characters and it felt like I was wasting my time.
number2commenter
This! This is exactly the conclusion I came to. It seemed like just the first episode of GOT I was rooting for people. I was invested in their story. Five episode into hotd and I literally said, I don't give a fuck about any of you.
Swedsman
It's decent but I find it impossible to enjoy anything GoT related knowing how stupid and pointless it all ends. When they brought up the Prince that was promised prophecy my heart just sank cause we all know that turned out to be hogwash
ciriausly
The switchung faces what was that all about if not pointless
spartanatreyu
Aren't they working on a sequel? If that ends up working out then the old ending will just be a weird middle.
Swedsman
That's a big if. we're talking an if visible from space. An if that pierces the heavens and touches the very foundation of earth. An if big enough to satisfy your mom