Az663
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May 5, 2026 12:02 PM
Az663
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kojenk
Ordering fastfood from Mcdonalds off an online mix and match menu doesnt make you a chef.
Bizarkly
AI is like if your mom mixed together the leftovers from three different dinners -- and pronounced it "A wonderful new dish!"
quietwalker
Guys, could you please stop attributing long term complex plans to situations which can be so easily explained by the most shallow and short term goals?
No one is trying to "eliminate artists" as a goal, or destroy creativity as a way to keep people controlled. You are building these claims on massive pyramids of assumptions, most of which arise from emotional bias in an attempt to find "evil" in those people and processes you dislike.
They want to make more money and pay less, this quarter.
Az663
And eliminating artists makes this goal much closer, because they are literally our main line of defense.
GenericValue
The beginning of the process sucks, and is ugly, and takes a lot of work
GenericValue
But if you keep at it, eventually it gets better and easier.
ArandomDane
Honestly, the argumentation is reminiscent of what was said about sampling back in the 80s, i really don't like that. As it would mean that someone that goes though the process of trial and error promting the AI model to get the image they imagined is perfectly fine.
The issue with generating stuff with AI is the energy consumption and sampling other peoples work without permission. On top of which the issues of how it is being used to fool people.
CaptSchmidtGaming
people who can't understand Dr Rachel's point are soulless consumers who covet status over sustenance.
ThisIsMyUsernameThereAreManyLikeIt
"Gatekeep creativity". That makes me so mad. I'm an aRtIsT, or at least I've drawn all my life, and I value my journey so friggin much. ANYONE can draw. It just takes TRAINING. And the JOURNEY is WORTH IT! Shitheels, I fuckin swear.
CallMeMcGyver
I agree that some of "them" want to install a "technate", but the vast majority of them are just jumping on the bandwagon and see AI as a way of making a shit-ton of money with zero consequences, however horrible those consequences obviously will be for society. Profit without any personal risk always attracts the laziest, dumbest, greediest, worst people possible. These tech bros risk nothing personally, so what do they care if everyone else is screwed over.
nothingunused
What if we made it risky for them? Like, physically?
fibbertitgibbet
You'll be the villain in new age RoboCop
nothingunused
Sweet, tell Verhoeven to have his people call my people.
delcera
Reminder that Musk used his toddler as a shield for months after Luigi. They'll put anyone between them and us for any reason.
transference
They would find a way to throw poor people at the risk instead. If we want to stop it, we don’t need to make it risky. We need to make it expensive.
nothingunused
That's one risk. Data centers are flammable, I'm sure. Lots of things are.
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
"why aren't y'all happy that we not only commodified creativity but we AUTOMATED it?? Next we're gonna gatekeep that shit too boo"
Az663
So, are we waiting for a bunch of trolls and goblins to offend people for not 'going with the spirit of the times'?
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
Shit I had a convo with someone yesterday here whose legit point was "it might be doing good for the business world that you and I aren't aware of", and it was then I realized how fucked we are
Az663
"Them billionaire tech golems must be thinking of the good of the world, chum!"
michiyl
After the 50th trillion extracted from the general population, they'll surely see the wrong way of their doings /s
Navrodel
I will say, creativity isn't inimitable. We understand the process of creation, we understand all the steps involved in creation and could - if we actually invested in it - someday make a creative bot.
That's not what we're seeing in the image creators they're addicted to prompting. Those just scraped tags and titles so that when you throw a bunch of tags at them, they'll mash up patterns of their sources and spew it back - often including whole faces of uninvolved people and copywritten works.
wazeewa
"Creativity is a process not an output" - That is such a perfect way of saying it when talking about AI.
sajgj
Never forget this....
kirmokum
Dr. Barr is putting out some of the best content and info online right now.
PunnyTiger
ai was supposed to eliminate drudgery so humans could create art, not end human art and leave nothing for humanity but the drudgery
modis
Think about it this way. You see a picture of a landscape: wow, that’s beautiful.
You see a painting of the same landscape: Holy shit someone painted this by hand!?? Outstanding!
The enjoyment the end user gets is increased simply by virtue of a thing being crafted by human hands.
SecurityBadger
As someone who likes to work with wood, I feel the same way about AI as I do about CNC machines; I think it's cheating. TBF, I am jealous of the precision of the CNC. But I don't raise CNC products to the level of art because the human element has been taken out of the process. I know each and every mistake in my work. It is not perfect, but that's what makes it a human art form.
Az663
And they're one of a kind.
SinStar87
As a non techer, that seems a stupid attack to me, if I cut up a bunch of magazines to make a collage, that human creative process is there and allows that creative intent to better be displayed than my can barely draw a stick figure drawing abilities allow. It fucks over people is the much better argument.
Az663
It's not you making the collage in the case of using an LLM.
SinStar87
So it's literally the physical act that matters? Is the no arm artist's work better than the guy struggling to afford 3 meals? Seems very starving artist nonsense to me.
Az663
Yeah, it's the act of doing that matters. What else? We're talking about billionaires' toys that steal from artists, also the poor ones.
SinStar87
Such a stupid argument, smh. Stick with it fucking people over rather than a smarmy there's no value with easier methods of expression.
Az663
toys that steal from artists = fucking people over
brightlightbarking
How about "creating things is FUN"? Why does the AI, which isn't even capable of enjoying itself, get to do the FUN thing, while a human artist has to go push buttons at Taco Bell? I'd rather AI not exist at all, outside of a very few niche scientific uses, but if I had to choose one? AI should be doing the bullshit jobs everyone hates, and humans should be doing the fun shit.
SavageDrums
"AI" is for people who are too lazy and stupid to learn actual skills.
ThinkThisOut
When I was a wee lad I needed to tap in a nail. Couldn’t locate a hammer, used a screw driver to tap it in with the handle. Dad yelled at me. I don’t understand.
Reminds me of this whole scenario but not only is the tool being used wrong but instead of simply being corrected -there’s no voice of reason- so instead all I’m hearing is that there’s no room for screw drivers… anyway. Not the right audience for this message
VinnieJonesDiary
Heard a wonderful song summarising Lord Of The Rings in in a disco style, sounded great, looked it up, turns out it was Ai, and now I could not care less about it, because the creativity, the joy of spending too much time on something was what I loved about it.
Something a machine crapped out, based on a prompt it took 10 seconds to write is soulless and worthless, because there was no process.
WillemHellfire
So, how do we beat them without joining them?
4chanrefugee
Crowbar
kuscheck
AI bros only care about pleasing themselves, which is why they only talk about that part. Nobody is talking about great AI artworks, because they don't exist.
JakeWren
AI can be used with creativity, it's a tool like any other. But I only know of one person who does that.
Az663
The more effort you put into prompts, the more energy is getting wasted on you not learning to actually create.
nihiltres
JakeWren isn’t describing prompting alone, which is a trash-tier workflow no matter one’s opinions on AI.
Better AI workflows often involve starting with a sketch and using that to guide the model with ControlNet (https://github.com/lllyasviel/controlnet ).
It’s *possible* to use AI creatively, just … most don’t, and the vast majority of the public’s never seen the better stuff (not least because of the flood of absolute slop).
I tried out AI, then returned to “AI” (Adobe Illustrator).
JakeWren
But it's not just prompts. They've shown their process - It's outlining the image, it's manually touching up what the AI gives them, it is someone that before AI was making images making full, realistic looking, TV episode length videos on the same topic, something they couldn't do before not because of a lack of *creativity* but because of a lack of tools. 99.9999% of people use it as a replacement, and that's very bad, but used as a tool it can be good.
TheMoonBnuuy
They will argue that AI is a tool, that you don't yell at someone using a paint brush for not painting with their fingers, that an AI is just like a paint brush...
I beg to differ. You have full control over where the paintbrush goes. With AI, you don't have control of anything other than the prompt, you don't guide the output at any point. Just "set it and forget it"
TheMoonBnuuy
That said, it can get iffy with using AI to code... Vibe coding alone won't get you very far, but if you are able to program yourself, you can get much further with using an AI to do the code for you because you understand what it's doing wrong and how to instruct it to fix the problem... and that yields better results than simple vibe coding...
At the end of the day, you still can't get it to do better than you could because you have to know how to do it yourself to know how to write the prompt
TheMoonBnuuy
They'll say that "oh just use plan mode" and ok sure that can get you a LITTLE farther, but it's only a "can", a possibility, not a guarantee, and if you don't know how to program, the plan will look like gobbledy gook to you. No matter what, you're better off knowing how to program it yourself, and then doing exactly that...
Timetoupdatemyusername
It is a tool, but not in the same vein as a paintbrush, so the analogy doesn't work. I have used it to make something, a wargames campaign pack, more aesthetically pleasing. A product that made me no money, was made for fun, and the ai art made it more interesting to read. Had I made that art myself, it wouldn't have been made before the deadline. People had fun during the campaign day, and ai helped make my campaign pack better. Not defending ai though, except for that. :D
Shaodyn
To quote Imgur's own Jollyjack, "You can describe a meal in the finest of detail, but unless you're the one working in the kitchen, you didn't cook a damn thing."
Shaodyn
Relevant link: https://www.deviantart.com/jollyjack/art/A-familiarity-with-pots-and-pans-1177975463
kojenk
Yep. Ordering off the mcdonalds self service screen doesnt make you a chef.
Shiggityshaybae
I would like to add, that in the process, you learn things. You develop styles, tastes, preferences. If you skip to the end, there is no unique element. Nothing about it that is YOU.
Cause it's not you. You have not created anything.
Anfalicious
I went on a tear in a staff meeting this week (too much caffeine) warning the AI users that anything they were using AI to do they will forget how to do themselves
HandoB4Javert
truthader
You have not created anything and you have not grown.
You have spent a little more of the already-little, precious time you have on this earth into waste.
truthader
Oh my goodness, to clarify: this wasn’t directed at the person I was responding but adding on to their comment. I should have been clearer. My apologies.
vuvuzevka
"Creating" something with Gen AI is closer to commissionning a mediocre artist than it is to create anything
Cataleast
I'm a bit confused as to why you've been downvoted so heavily. This is a perfectly serviceable analogy when it comes to the difference between prompting a genAI algorithm and making something yourself. Another one I tend to use is going to a restaurant, ordering a steak, telling the waiter how you want it cooked and calling yourself a chef.
Forosnai
I think part of it is that hiring a mediocre artist still involves art being created, even if not by you, or not GREAT art. GenAI inherently can't create art, based on the definition in this post, so in that sense the comparison is still kinda insulting to the theoretical artist. Though I think they meant it in the sense that using it doesn't make you an artist any more than hiring someone else makes you one.
Cataleast
I feel like it speaks directly to the last line of the previous comment of "Cause it's not you. You have not created anything." in that both prompting a genAI algo and commissioning an artist is basically trying to offload the creativity somewhere else and thinking you made something. It's honing in on the idea of making something vs. having something made. Of course, in the case of genAI, the only creativity involved is the cannibalised art and the making of the algorithm itself.
Az663
Still closer to hiring a thief. :P
LordofGoats
As Brandon Sanderson put it, WE are the art.
CallMeMcGyver
With all that also comes innovation... developing a unique way of achieving a goal, be that goal an artistic creation, a solution to a problem or a scientific process. Using AI is just following a recipe someone else created... you'll never create anything new if just copy existing recipes. It may seem new to some, but the basic recipe remains and merely combining recipes without understanding results in awful amalgamated garbage the equivalent of matcha-onion & chocolate chip liver cookies.
trondason1
Very hypothetically speaking, I could see advanced AI Scientists as being arguable as creating art. The AI Model itself, and trying to understand the distillation of information that serves as their root. This is, of course, completely unrelated to what Techbros care about and argue in favor of. They aren't arguing that we should study the models to understand the mathematics behind asthetics.
eetsumkaus
at the end of the day, "AI" is just a bunch of switches and numbers that filter a bunch of input into output data. So there's really three ways to be creative there: massage the model, get better inputs, and most importantly, figure out what to do with the outputs. It's the people who only take the outputs as is that are lacking in imagination. A real creative would find different ways to use that output, and it isn't always in the final product.
darthnerdus6236
Mistakes are huge part of an process. If you never fall on your face, you will never learn how to brush yourself off.
eetsumkaus
the idea is not that mistakes don't get made. It's that mistakes are cheaper to make. That makes it easier to try more things, not less. People were ripping off other peoples' work loooong before AI. And that's because the cost of trying new things was high.
darthnerdus6236
Mistakes cost tme. That's the invaluable part.
akafluffy
like throwing a hot pocket in the microwave, you are not a cook, you just have the end result of cooking. And when the AI companies start charging people exorbitant subscription fees for something they're addicted to and makes them feel like creative human beings and has harmed their ability to talk with regular people, they'll pay it because it's unthinkable to them not to have the sum total of human creativity on tap at the plagiarism machine.
Ivain
The amount of time spent on getting an AI to picture EXACTLY what you want could be spent actually learning to draw.
zHurk777
Related. It's why you have to show your work in math or science class. You have to prove you know how to arrive at the correct answer.
Fanner50
So, there’s a correct answer in art?
But a correct answer should not change, as fashion does.
Anfalicious
You have to document your process in art class. And of course the correct answer can change, that's the whole point of the scientific method.
Fanner50
It read ‘science and math’. The answers in math don’t change, including the huge amount used in science.
Science and math always have to be able to show their work, not just in school.
AShartInTheWind
There is. It's the creation of a result that you are satisfied with or at least an advancement of a skill that you wish to obtain. Now...show your work.
Fanner50
So, you show your work to yourself, to satisfy yourself.
Nice, low bar.
AShartInTheWind
Yes. Some things can be done just for yourself.
ApplesdaKitty
The only low bar is you being satisfied with an upgraded algorithmic search bar outputting what was based on things it stole.
Az663
Well, some sentences have been composed, to be fair, but nobody really needed those.
EmailFail
Doesn't that make you an AI Defender....?
Az663
No, I mean that prompts have been created. Something pointless and ultimately harmful.
Shaodyn
Generative AI is basically the Thneed from the Lorax. It has no real purpose, does nothing useful, was created purely to make the rich even richer, and can only exist by destroying the environment even further.
HeavenOrHellLetsRock
I always likened it to a commission. If I commission an artist, I am not saying I created it. A prompt is just a commission, you're not the artist, you commissioned a mechanical one.
Az663
A commission to steal.
eetsumkaus
yeah, but you can still use AI to aid in the process. Generate a bunch of samples of a particular melody with different backing tracks so you can tick off some ideas you were considering, etc. Your creativity will only be limited if you allow yourself to be limited.
4etherling
Okay, I'm going to say this and likely get blasted along with you but, firstly, fuck AI. That being said I completely agree with you, just not in a traditional sense. In the realm of common music (4/4, 3/4, 90-130bpm, standard tuning/ drop D on strings) there are already enough resources. Freeware and samples abound. I have a song called triskaidekaphobia in 13/8. There is real value in testing a song that is abstract like this. It's near impossible to find others who will try and play it.
Cataleast
Then again, with the amount of free DAWs available, there's no shortage of tools to test out all sorts of weird and kooky musical ideas.
4etherling
I've been using DAWs, namely pro tools and logic pro, for the past 13 years. I have used and am proficient with ableton live, Cubase, waveform, acid pro, reaktor, presonus, fender pro, and fruity loops as well. I've created beats with guitar pro 5-8, serato scratch, torq with xponent, and as well will any DAW that supports MIDI. While I appreciate your take on my comment, I'm sure you're familiar with the phenomenon of individual behavior. It takes a group to produce a unique product. 1/
4etherling
Yes, I can produce 13/8 tracks by writing additional material but two things will begin to happen. I'll either create material locked into my in habitual writing or I'll begin to write material that will inspire me in a new direction and lose sight of my project. Think about the average person and how many times this occurs in life. What I'm saying is that AI as a tool has purpose. It's function should not replace jobs, but it can strengthen the outcome of an individual creative process.
Froggie243
My brain won't rot if I do it myself instead of outsourcing it to a data farming and resource wasting machine.
eetsumkaus
Only will if you're not...creative about its use so that it's only a tool in your toolbox.
Az663
It is usually accomplished by... listening to music.
eetsumkaus
you're limiting yourself to listening to things people already made instead of things YOU made, just with some other elements that you haven't thought through yet? Have you EVER gone through a creative process and wished you can see how an idea looked like in a final product before you commit your resources to making that idea a reality?
penandsword
It is more limiting to use your hyper specific AI outputs that you hand picked than it is to listen to music made by other talented musicians.
It’s not going to spit out Bluegrass if you ask for Electronica but that twangy guitar chord might be just what the song needs. Won’t get that if you let AI do all the work for you.
eetsumkaus
maybe that's something you'll add down the road, you don't know, you're in the middle of the process. The point is you'd like to hear something with a certain instrumentation or orchestration, and decide if you even want to put in the effort to fill out the rest of it. It's just a more sophisticated version of people writing a melody and singing it along while playing chords on the piano, except now you're not limited by just using a piano, or just chords.
4etherling
As a musician who writes abstract music, it's not that simple. Music exists in 2/4 and 4/4 because we walk that way. Rhythm begins when you take your first steps. The Catholic church popularized 3/4 hundreds of years ago for the holy connotations. I have a song called triskaidekaphobia that is written in 13/8. There are people capable of playing it or writing to it but you will search far and wide. I've never found anyone yet. Fuck AI, but as a tool to explore potential, there is merit.
Redshadow09
people who defend AI are the same people who want focus on the destination and not the journey. They want results without the hard PAINFUL work. They dont want to risk ANYTHING but gain EVERYTHING.
loma45
In my sphere of tech, ignoring AI is a career death sentence. Maybe some people are prepared to pivot out of a life long career as a protest but I'm not. It still requires work and knowledge to use it well, but it's a powerful tool - choosing not to use it is like a carpenter eschewing power tools because "they don't want results without work".
Feralkyn
People who blanket-statement shit like this are having an emotional response & not a logical one, as VERY much proven by you calling them psychopaths. What a wild leap.
It's just a tool. People can use it to prompt concepts they elaborate on themselves, or create concepts for an actual artist to work from, or just to make fun stuff for a D&D campaign if they are not, themselves, artists.
The main problem with AI isn't "skipping creativity" or "focusing on the destination." That's a-
Feralkyn
philosophical argument and wholly subjective.
The problem right now is the *capitalistic* background pushing it. It's the environmental destruction and the forced weaving of language prediction models into EVERY aspect of tech when nobody wants it. It's not the fact that Joe down the road can make a neat poster for his wall. It's the fact that data centers are drinking the world's water down to cool that shit.
Feralkyn
HOPEFULLY all of that aspect will tone down and Joe can go back to making a poster without a random person online labelling him psychopathic for it.
Redshadow09
For me they are psychopaths in my eye because they are willing to sacrifice anyone and everyone if it means they get ahead in life.
Moriarte
Or maybe we just don't have the fucking time, nor desire to learn how to draw and just want to see something we imagined without going through all that bullshit. Gatekeeping art just because you think it should hurt is fucking stupid.
Man, artists are cunts. It's no wonder we want to replace you. Not everything is about the journey, dumbass.
Az663
Your lack of skills in not an excuse to steal.
Moriarte
I didn't steal anything. Stealing is defined by taking something someone else owns so they NO LONGER HAVE IT. I am typing words into a context window and an image is being generated by my own hardware. It's not even touching the internet when it does.
I didn't steal SHIT.
meme2zombie
Except for all the stuff you stole.
Don't like being called a thief? Stop buying stolen goods. There's no difference between that and hiring someone to steal for you just because they did it on spec instead of a specific commission.
Az663
You use something that was supposed to be paid for.
Moriarte
Sure didn't. I used an LLM which is open source and entirely free to use. At no point did I circumvent a paywall, cart, or request for funds.
Skywatcher16
as noted above, art is not being gatekept. you just arent doing art. and no, maybe not everything is about the journey. but creativity is.
Skywatcher16
which is why normal people who lack it do this thing called "commissioning". paying people who DO have creativity, the time and the desire,
Skywatcher16
to make shit for us. i used AI to get a base reference of what i actually wanted because im almost as bad at descriptions as i am art. but
Skywatcher16
that wasnt even something id consiter the sketch. that was my equivilant of sending the artist a letter with my request.
Moriarte
Good for them. I want it now, and I'm not planning to sell the images so it's not your problem. It was never going to make you money to begin with because I was never willing to pay for it. And I don't have to, thanks to AI.
YOU may have some emotional attachment to "art" when you look at it.
I do not. I couldn't give two shits about how art makes me "feel".
What I care about is seeing the image I want to see. That is all.
Skywatcher16
meaning you are a theiving sociopath. now if you could just admit what you are, maybe we could get somewhere...
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
So... Theft. Just lazy theft.
DutchBoeremeisie
Learning to draw is so cheap. You need a pencil and some paper and you start drawing. That is it. No one is gatekeeping creativity.
Talent is 10% knowledge and 90% practice.
Az663
A small part of it, unfortunately, genetics... Sad, but we shouldn't ignore an integral part of our existence just because it's unfair... Also, a good basis for providing support for the less fortunate. Definitely not an excuse to support corporations in blatant stealing,
DutchBoeremeisie
Not unfortunately - a lack of innate talent is not a barrier at all. People simply don't understand how far learned skill can take you. We don't have to be Rembrandt to make things that we are proud of.
Daliena06
While I have great respect for artists, I can say that in my case (and it's probably not entirely unique to me), that price might get upped a bit because I would probably need a greater dose of antidepressants than I am already on on to deal with my issues with what I perceive as failures driving me to very rapidly want to quit when I can't quite work things out.
DutchBoeremeisie
The problem is that artists online tend to only share the things that look good. Same with photographers. They don't share the shitty stuff, so we think they only make good stuff. I follow one Youtube water colour artist and she said in one video that if you are happy with 1/6 of your creations, that is a good average.
SnakuPlisskin
It's a bitch. I get a brief high after finishing art but after a day or so, all of the flaws start becoming more and more apparent and I'll keep seeing other artists' work and, while I try not to compare, you kind of can't help it on some level, and I'll want to give it up. That plus the sheer amount of time each piece takes me is why I gave it up a little over a decade ago. Go some antidepressants and got back into it last year and those things are still there but so far I'm pushing through.
OkButWhyWereTheyFilming
Draw the rest of the owl
BlueWildabeest
Yes, everybody knows the meme. It's not the golden excuse for laziness that you think it is.
OkButWhyWereTheyFilming
It's a joke dude
Az663
I do not, I think.
Kbantar
I am virtually aphantasic. It is literally impossible for me to draw what I want, because I cannot visualize it. Talent exists, whether you want to believe it or not. Long lasting art requires both talent and skill, not just one or the other.
michiyl
But have you seen how comics and cartoons started? Of course, some people are just good at it right from the start, but most people just continue to do it, they learn and they get better when they try out new things. The skill is the patience to continue despite "not making progress"
Schm17ty
I am too, but I still learned to draw. I just draw what I see instead of what I imagine.
Started with copying cartoons and progressed from there. Cool graphics in magazines, doodles, tattoo art, whatever. As I progressed I got more creative with it.
Most artists use references of some kind anyway, they don’t sit down and draw or paint a scene from memory or imagination. It’s more of a collaborative effort between the artists’s idea and the resources available.
Cataleast
The popular youtuber/animator, RubberRoss, is aphantasic. He's been doing all sorts of visual artwork since the early 2000s. Aphantasia is not something that *prevents* you from being creative; you just need to figure out ways to work around it, e.g. using references, etc. If the drive to create is there, people will figure out ways to express themselves despite various limitations. The only thing stopping you is yourself.
Dyamonde
Also time. LOTS of time, and mental fortitude. Those are costs as well, and for some people quite unaffordable.
Cataleast
I keep seeing the "time is a luxury" argument and I do not understand it at all. It really doesn't require a massive time commitment to start developing one's abilities. I mean, if someone cannot afford to take half an hour a day to pick up a pencil and draw something, they have bigger problems to deal with than a lack of artistic ability.
DutchBoeremeisie
I do most of my drawings in 10-15 minutes while in front of the tv at night. And since it is done daily, it is enough to improve my skill.
Cataleast
Exactly. You don't have to immerse yourself in the process by locking yourself away in some remote cabin for months on end to develop your abilities and style. Sure, chipping away at it at short intervals is slower, but I find you really can't rush these things to begin with, so whatever pace you can fit into your daily schedule is perfectly adequate. Hell, much of creativity comes from "allowing" yourself to be creative and a great way to "unlock" that is by simply doing creative stuff.
iRecommendBooks
You can spend an arbitrary amount on drawing, but it's basically the least expensive creative outlet. Right down there with singing or dancing.
The raw materials - a pencil and paper - are freely available or extremely cheap.
Developing your taste and getting your drawing to a point where you're happy? That's tough, but making something that other people can enjoy comes pretty quickly: kids understand this.
DutchBoeremeisie
Really, for drawing, no. I am poor, quite literally. I have the minimum to spend on things for myself. Paper + pencil = cheap. If you want to expand, dollar store colouring pencils or waterpaint and paper is also cheap. Cost simply does not have to be a barrier to being creative. I agree with the time thing, definitely.
IStoleALoafOfBread
You could just say you've never been to a museum and/or know zilch about art history. No respected artist is using just pencil and paper.
DutchBoeremeisie
I was talking about learning to draw, so you could express your creativity without feeling the need to use AI generated images. You could just say you didn't bother to follow the conversation thread before commenting.
DutchBoeremeisie
So .. 16 HB pencils - 63c. An A4 sketchbook with 50 sheets - 1.99
If you're going to downvote, please explain how that is "quite unaffordable" for the vast majority of people.
DutchBoeremeisie
Hell, you can get a block of 500 pages of printer paper for 2.69. That is not even 1 cent per page.
Foire
Printer paper, bright white, A4 Letter; 0.5 mm 2B Clickie; putty eraser; 0.5 mm Pilot Gel pen, black; 5-star Trapper Keeper, zipper-bound, black; those were so many of the most creative times and my favorites ended up being inked.
Preferences changes a bit after high school, and some stuff was upgraded due to working and having food income, but I still keep a bunch of sheets in with the sketchbook. :D
Dyamonde
My post is quite self-explanatory. Your lack in reading comprehension is not my problem. Maybe you should INVEST some TIME in proper reading, or is that a COST you are UNABLE TO PAY?
DutchBoeremeisie
Yeah, I have shitty eyesight. Read "there" instead of "those". My point is still valid though, that financial costs needn't be a hurdle.
kingbudo101
as some who works in a creative field (3d designer) there is absolutely a place AI in the creative process. its just not as big of a place AI bros want. In my work AI is primarily used 1.) replacement of "napkin" sketches. Napkin sketches are Ideas clients give me. 99% of the time the client has zero artistic skill and its an actual hand drawn image (looking like kid drew it) sometimes on a litteral napkin. I would get that along side some type of mood board. AI has completely taken over that
eetsumkaus
pretty much yeah. As an academic, I can test my "stupid" ideas in a few hours instead of coding for weeks and then finding out the idea was dumb in the first place. Or asking the AI to challenge my ideas and then working through it to find a new idea.
Skywatcher16
as someone who used it to commission actual art, yeah. a free AI generator to help me describe my idea was very helpful. but anyone doing
Az663
So you have taken stolen and deformed art of a group of people, without crediting them, in order to commision a single work? Not a feather in your cap. Especially considering the electricity burned.
Skywatcher16
that much and calling it "complete" is just high as a fucking kite.
kingbudo101
seriously. Its good to convay an idea from someone with no artist skills. Makes my life easier in that regard when I what someone actually wants instead of wasting time going back and forth
Az663
Eh. Still, this i stealing other peoples' effort without credit nor pay.
whoknowsanymorelol
Actually that isnt happening here. Unless you think creating a moodboard is stealing
Idkillpickanamelater
In this rare case stealing happens regardless with outwith generative AI
Az663
It doesn't have to, if people are fair. No chances for this with LLMs.
Idkillpickanamelater
yeah telling corprate america to be fair will never happen. Mood boards have been a thing for a very very very long time. Art has always been stolen in that regard. Thats not gonna change if generative AI disapears over night
Az663
But it is not a slightest reason to normalise and defend the behaviour.
kingbudo101
in what way?
Az663
LLMs are taking art of people without credit nor pay.
Your clients are using LLMs.
You are working on stolen and mangled materials.
kingbudo101
yes, that is what clients have always done. What do you think moodboards are? a collection of art they found online.
Az663
Art found online can be traced back to an artist, who can be recognised and, possibly, lifted out of poverty.
GimcrackGewgaw
In my shop, we offloaded some design work to AI. We have fewer designers but they spend less time pushing pixels and more time designing. From that POV, the impact is less on creativity than on labor. AI is in the mix, getting us good results faster and cheaper. I wouldn't trade it for the old, slow, expensive way.
Az663
Faster, cheaper - at whose cost?
Cataleast
What this sounds like to me is that you've compromised the quality of your designs for increased output. I guess the ol' "Good, fast, cheap: pick two" still rings true, eh?
Froggie243
At the cost of our air, water, and taxes
GimcrackGewgaw
Yep. It would be better if it ran on renewables and cooled without consuming water. I'm all for shifting in that direction and indeed part of my business is in green energy to support that transition.
DiabloGrandeArts
I am also an artist (character design, comics, covers). Those napkin sketches are infinitely more useful and personal than any AI reference image. I can work from a napkin sketch. When a client provides an AI image as reference, I always end up redrawing and doing the concept from scratch because the people that use AI as reference don't actually know what they want.
kingbudo101
that might be the just the difference in type of work we do. Because I deal with creating designs that have to be manufactured by my company, I have to remake thier ideas into something that be physically built and still look good. I mostly just use thier sketches to get the vibe they want. Which them sending me an AI image they "made" is preferable than stick figures. But thats just for me
Az663
You're omitting the blatant art theft part.
whoknowsanymorelol
there is no theft? creating moodboards isnt theft
kingbudo101
what art theft? the moodboards?
Az663
Any output from LLMs comes from databases built without consent of actual creators, who have never been recompensed for their work being used.
BarryTheCyborg
My only concern with clients using AI for napkin drawings is that the newer engineers that don't understand the process will get attached to it since it looks polished and think it should be the final design and not understand the limitations.
kingbudo101
that hasnt been an Issue yet for me, but I could see that
4etherling
That just requires a conversation, and you can prove it to be true by challenging them to find someone else who will produce it.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Hi AI pimp pretending to be a "creative", you are full of shit. Here is the sketch the writer of Alien gave Giger for the facehugger egg.
I would argue you're not even a designer if you need the slop machine to come up with ideas for you, but one I know for certain is that you're definitely the guy in the room the boss points to when he needs a quisling to browbeat everyone in the office who hasn't swallowed the AI kool-aid.
Az663
Agreed.
whoknowsanymorelol
Bro you are having an argument in your own head. All of that isnt applicable here to what was said
kingbudo101
oh you didnt read at all what I said lol
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Oh and ironic comment when it's clear you think I'm responding under the assumption you were the one coming up with the ideas.
kingbudo101
"would argue you're not even a designer if you need the slop machine to come up with ideas for you" probably because you said that?
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
You're sitting there praising it's ability to come up with "ideas" and "sketches" you doofus, so yes the context is correct. Like I said, you guys aren't very smart and can't parse very simple associative ideas anymore.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
I read it all chief. That's another major aspect of you AI losers, you think nobody is as clever as you, so any criticism you get is just ignorant people who don't understand what you do (nothing).
kingbudo101
yeah you definitely didnt read it lol
Az663
They did. Using a power-hungry theft machine to make your work easier won't fly, lazyguy.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
What's to read, you're just regurgitating the same failed arguments every other AI pimp dork on reddit makes.
kingbudo101
aspect and honestly im happy with it as I now get clear ideas what clients want from the begining with less back and forth deciphering thier drawing 2.) I use it for bullshit I dont want to do. The other day I was given sample pictures of a sites that that I needed to use as background for one my renders. It had a crowds of people in it. I could waste my time photoshoping it out, or feed it through adobe firefly to get rid of them. Also use it to make tilable textures of specific requested
kingbudo101
materials but supplier only has a small cutout as an example online. I rather not waste my time and gave AI generate something tilable from the small sample.
McFrazzlestache
Sounds a lot like you're lazy as shit and don't deserve to have a viable standing in any creative endeavor. You cater to environmental and intellectual property terrorism. Fuck you specifically.
kingbudo101
What creative endeavor am I having AI take away from me?
McFrazzlestache
Just that you shouldn't be bothered with the creative endeavor in the first place seeing as how you don't acknowledge intellectual property rights or environmental impact. You're weak, your bloodline is weak, and history will forget you.
triaddraykin
Good sentiment, wrong audience. You value your time and put it towards output that needs your actual skill, rather than something tedious that's just a grind. Isn't freeing us up to be creative what people keep talking about with how we have so much automation we don't need all this labor?
kingbudo101
Exactly. I enjoy 3d modeling. I dont enjoy photoshopping crowds of people out of images. I rather spending my time modeling than doing that
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
"I hate my job so I give it to AI to do it."
eetsumkaus
the irony of using this image though, because basically this is the equivalent of handing off "TPS Reports" to AI.
Feralkyn
People need to divorce "AI" from "computer modelling systems" and divorce "terrible awful shit pushed by giant corpos" from "occasional useful tool" in their minds. AI has been in graphics design programs for *years* in this way. It's useful for what it's useful for. It's never gonna be what big companies want of it, and data centers and water chugging are bad, but "part of a graphics design program that LOCALLY erases crowds" is not ChatGPT.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Calling Gaussian distribution models and ML "ai" is bullshit and you know it, but you act like it's the same to deceive people.
Typical lying AI pimp.
kingbudo101
also yes. Substance Painter and Designer has has some type of generive tool baked into the software for like decade plus now
kingbudo101
I have to love every aspect of my job? I love 3d modeling. I hate cropping people out of images. Yeah im gonna let AI crop people out of images
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Also? What part of 3D rendering is editing photos? Why would you be doing that as part of your job at all? Sounds like my original opinion of "AI pimp pretending to be an artist" is more and more likely.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
What are you going to do when you lose your job because the boss thinks CGI renders generated by AI are enough? Because if there's one field that thinks having an idea is enough and everything else is just busy work, it's definitely the C-suite.
kingbudo101
You think my job is only photoshop crowds out of images?
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
I think you don't actually have a job if at every opportunity you try to avoid doing it, yes.
ipointoutnahtzeesbyreplyingtothem
Look man, you're a modeller/rigger/whatever. You don't draw, you don't make the original idea, whatever, so you think that part is unimportant. AI pimps always, ALWAYS do this: you sit there and think the "easy simple stuff" you can just hand off to the chatbot so you can do the Real Work. Except eventually the "easy simple stuff" is just the job itself and suddenly you're just typing prompts the whole time.