Resistance1000
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Jul 28, 2026 8:03 AM
Resistance1000
20683
691
19
FoxPeregrine
Not really. Is like to see accurate depictions of Jesus, John Wayne not cast as Genghis Khan, the cast of a Greek epic played by Greeks, and Helen played by a genetic Trojan... I think accurate representation is important. What's wrong with that? What if they cast actual Arabs in The mummy? Someone could have been there to say that it was gross and racist. Right?
bahukiba
What color is Jesus’s skin?
marsilies
They don't want "historical accuracy," they want everything to conform to their white supremacist world view, and will use any argument to advance it in a given situation, even if it contradicts themselves elsewhere.
ToSisPoS
I want to see more of the “Athena is disappointed” meme.
ViolinsofAutumn
These morons see ancient Greece and ancient Persia as racial monolithes because that's what they want our current world to be...
crazyspelling
For real, Persia was smack dab in the middle of everything important in the ancient world, you bet your ass they had a diverse racial polity. Greece was constantly going around the entire Mediterranean basin mixing with everybody they could find, especially Egyptians, and Egyptians had the Nile linking them to subsaharan Africa through Nubia, and the 25th Dynasty were Black Africans ffs.
frozenlake247
Bigotry and tautology, a perfect match!
Morons see ancient communities as monolithic and “pure” bc that’s what they want and demand for the present bc that’s what the narrative they crafted about the past to justify the present (and so on in a big shitty spiral).
Almost as a good a pairing as bigotry and cognitive disjunction/“magical thinking”, conspiracy theories, willful/malicious ignorance, and so on!
modis
A historically accurate version of The Odyssey? The fuck is that? Just 3 hours of watching Homer scribbling on papyrus? What’s next, historically accurate LotR?
vindik8or
Homer wasn't a writer. He was a travelling performer - likely blind, almost certainly illiterate. He made it all up in his head, memorised it, and performed it enough times that it became popular enough that other people memorised it and decided to write it down, possibly centuries after his death. Honestly, I'd watch that.
SavageDrums
They just want white men to look perfect at all times.
Resistance1000
Like this guy thinks he looks...
AllwaysCarryABible
My bubble is weird. All the ones complaining about the historical inaccuracies are reenactors complaining that everything is brown
DorkJedi
you might want to clarify you mean clothing and decoration, not skin.
rayleon0702
In America, maybe. I have no beef with the movie (cause I haven't seen it yet), but accurate history depiction for the intended timeframe is obviously the better choice. And yes, Slavery was nasty and a vile depiction of how the white man fucked up the native Americans and then imported African slaves and put the black man through a history of misery and deficiency of human rights should also be depicted accurately. Same way with Germany's (my country) historical atrocities.
Soggybathroomsock
"Historically accurate" meaning with British actors.
figuringeights
Why do these people care so much about movies
ElbowDeepInABlackhole
It’s insane to me that there may be a generation that one day doesn’t know about slavery, and are forced to read the bible in school regardless of their religion. Fucking absolutely grim man.
TheS4ndm4n
You think they get to choose their religion?
RooGryphon
Homeschooling is the future to keep kids intelligent and not braindead from indoctrination and retardation in the public schools
M4UsedRollout
Yes. These people should homeschool their kids and stop trying to sabotage public education for hurting their feelings.
AdrianDunne
It's very difficult to control the narrative completely. The ones who learn about slavery will be much more motivated to learn more as long as they're told it's forbidden knowledge. You just have to keep that spark alive and it undermines the lie.
NZSheeps
Don't worry, the rest of the world won't let them forget
marsilies
They'll learn about slavery.... as the nice white people rescuing the poor blacks from poverty in Africa and giving them jobs! Then the ungrateful wretches demanded "freedom," turning against their benevolent masters and causing needless destruction fighting for it, then once they got freedom they immediately started mooching off the government and wasting their money on drugs and alcohol and shooting each other. The white supremacist version of history.
Cearnaigh
Oh, you mean shit that PragerU and their ilk already teach?
marsilies
I can't stomach actually watching one of their propagandist videos, but yeah, I was guessing it was along those lines. Poe's law and all, it's hard to satirize these fascists.
PinkyTheUnicorn2
This is already happening. Pete Hegseth's pastor, right now, has repeatedly said slavery was bad, but it "brought the races closer together." Many schools in conservative areas teach that "some slave owners were good and loved their slaves" etc. etc.
KarenFromTheHOA
Oh yeah, they kept those slaves safe and gave them food and shelter because they were so so so kind. Actually, the mean old yankee north hated black people more. Good, kind, southern slave owners really cared about the well being of all their property. Or whatever grok says about it. I don't post on Twitter so not sure.
ChazzK
Yes, the historically accurate story of a war for which there is no record, involving gods, monsters, grossly unnatural environs, magic...
Syko73
Or historically accurate ANYONE from the bible
MasterBountakun
Those who know will question thr amount of Jesus feet pics this will lead to
Chicagorooftop
In the USSR they re-wrote history books to make the leaders look good. Putin grew up in that world. No wonder Trump idolizes Putin.
johnblood616
We do that. Case in point: Columbus, the Pilgrims, WW2
Resistance1000
DOD's purge of everything DEI such as "Enola Gay," the Tuskegee Airmen, Buffalo Soldiers, etc, etc.
Imjurbro
It’s a pretty amazing timeline when the people I vote with accuse me of being cool with slavery because I don’t like a casting choice.
MasterBountakun
I think it's pretty amazing that in this timeline, Joe Biden can say people aren't black if they don't vote for him to a black host and still believe that racists aren't among any American political party.
kirmokum
and i guarantee none of them have read the odyssey.
GlenL
Listen man, all they want is a historically accurate version of a woman who hatched from an egg
LaffertyDanie1
Historically accurate is just nonsense, you can make an argument about textual accuracy that generally describes her as pale with light colored hair. Doesn't really make a difference to the story though
Xalten2
Wait until the people demanding a historically accurate Odyssey learn something about ancient Greece
Howlingowl
They put their dicks in WHAT?
Lexgeddon
They won't learn a darn thing unless it can be framed to defend what they already think.
Osgarth
Another erasure that's happening is American Anglo cultural efforts to westernize culture heritage such as that of the Greeks into one non existent monolith, even though it is a Mediterranean culture oriented much more to the east. The culture war has reduced every discussion to a false binary. Not every a cultural critique has come from a dishonest place. That being said having a black Helen is really one of the least inaccurate things. The bronze age Mediterranean world was a diverse place.
johnblood616
Considering she was hatched from an egg...
InTangier
This is a long-standing issue, and while it likely came from early American white supremacists and keeps gettting parroted into the mainstream, it unfortunally gained a bit of traction in Europe. The whole idea of Western Culture.
Romans and Greeks are white to those folks when it suits them. Folks of Italian and Greek heritage are treated like they are less, while some WASP tries to claim he somehow part of that common heritage lol.
Meanwhile, none of those folks are seen as "German" or wtv.
chewmaca2
They are also the same people that wanted an historically accurate Little Mermaid...
KarenFromTheHOA
They should've gotten a real mermaid to play Ariel.
Keitterman
I Dunno, if you're gonna be a purist about the source, I think ancient mythology is best left to text because it's so absolutely fantastical (ex. Pegasus being born from Medusa's dead boy.. a fully formed horse with wings... from her bloody neck-stump) that it's best to let your mind fill in the gaps, or outright reject the parts that just won't fit in to your understanding.
Beyond text, whatever makes the show/movie flow has to be accepted because otherwise the whole thing gets pretty tangled.
Subsound
Idk, unless your writing scripts or making a movie...im not sure why it matters
Keitterman
I guess that's kind of my point. writing a script or making a movie means to produce something people want to see. Suppose someone makes a movie of the 12 days of Christmas, and someone is like "I wish it was more like the original song" that wouldn't really make sense. You either like it or don't and then move on. When people say things like "I wish the Odyssey was more like the original" it really doesn't make sense.
Subsound
Its just a mobius strip
People whine about X
People whibe about the people whine about X
People whine, repeat twice, about X
Skullwriter
Hey! Hey! When I say I want more "Historically Accurate" movies I mean MORE THAN THREE SHADES OF GREY! Can I have colors?! Pleaase! Some red! Some purple! Some blue! Some nice painted statues! Pleaaase!
zHurk777
It Was Forced Relocation !!! Not Slavery !!! - republicans.
Eidodk
I don't know how you can make a historically accurate fictional story.. Can anyone explain.
johnblood616
What they mean is "all whites."
Eidodk
You mean absolutely NOT historically accurate. Ancient Greece didn't care one bit about skin color, they cared about skin HUE.. The darker and more weathered your skin was, the more people respected you.
johnblood616
Yeah. MAGA are all lying hypocrites.
KarenFromTheHOA
1) racism
KarenFromTheHOA
2) aligned with the author's intentions / context
rowzdowr
The only difference being one of these things actually happened, and the other was a poem about a dude going home in magic Greece.
Felderburg
Wait, do they want someone to find an elephant skull and say 'oh dang, this must have belonged to a huge one-eyed monster man!' instead of having said giant monster man?
*looks at comments* ...oh.
GravyEducation
Okay allow me to whitesplain. You see
netutoring
Not counting the fact that it's just a wee bit of a fiction *ahem*, if we approach this from a pure historian's perspective.... Homer was writing down for the first time a story that had been retold for hundreds of years at that point. About 500 years, by most estimates. (1200 BCE for Trojan War, 700 BC for Homer.) So, already we have our written record telephone gamed for five centuries, meaning Homer NEVER was a primary source of the Trojan War.
vindik8or
Between being blind and illiterate, likely Homer couldn't write his own name.
netutoring
It then took another 2400 years before the first translation into English. George Chapman's translation didn't take place until 1612 CE or so. Chapman also took liberties with the text, because of course the British did:P Modern translations may hew closer to truer translations but even they have considerable deviations from the original Greek. In short, as a historian, I would rate the Odyssey as highly flawed from the beginning as 'source' material.
djevelen
Both the Iliad and the Odyssey are heavily flawed due to thousands of years of translations, as you mentioned a long game of telephone. The same thing happened with Norse stories, we have very few written stories and the two sources we have are the Protic and Prose Eddas, and those are modern translations of a narrow sliver of stories.
vindik8or
That's not really an issue for the Homeric prose. We have access essentially to how it was first written down (likely some time around the 7th century BC) due to how well regarded it has been since then and consistently copied and recopied by libraries and scholars through the centuries, even preserving its original dialects (Ionic and Attic Greek). On top of that we have numerous and prolific commentaries on the original Greek text (again, copies of copies). Yes, transcription errors are 1/
vindik8or
possible, but likely the ones that persist would have to have been very early as there's more than enough lines of primary and secondary scrutiny to correct more recent errors. Translations were not the major avenue of transmitting the Homeric works (or really any Ancient Greek texts) for most of history. Throughout the majority of European history, scholars would learn Ancient Greek to read original texts, and it is still included in Classical education all over the world. 2/2
Ikwilstroopwaffels
What historically accurate skin colour does a woman who hatched from an egg have?
thedill2000
We all came from eggs.
cuddlydingo
Regular, or extra crispy.
JaimeLannistersRightHand
Depends which came first...
soulseekbob2320
I haven't read this in a while, but, imagine if she was born on Easter 🎨 Oh right, that's too early too.
GravyEducation
Well how much did Zeus cum because that's a thing we can scientifically prove now. What with Zeus cummin everywhere.
Reiliana
ElbowDeepInABlackhole
Wait for Elons version I’m sure he will be historically accurate. /s
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
AI Tits
hamulusrex
Is it feather or scale color?
crazyspelling
Even without the egg, it shouldn't be THAT fucking weird. Ancient Greece was in constant contact with, and frequently ruling over, Egypt. And Egypt was in constant contact with, and sometimes ruled by, Nubians. Black people could get to fucking Greece/Troy by taking TWO boats ffs, one down the Nile and the other across the Med.
crazyspelling
(For the literalists, Egypt has a special place in history as being so goddam great that invading armies just stuck around and started a new dynasty of Pharoahs rather than "conquering" it and going home.)
Imjurbro
The one described in the story, and art from the time, and every telling of it for 3,000 years. This isn’t complicated. And that’s not clever.
DarksteelPenguin
Funny that nobody complained as hard when she was played by a German blonde blue-eyed actress.
MrAcurite
Nairobi is 2,800 miles away from Sparta. Boston is 4,600 miles away from Ithaca. Having a Kenyan play a Spartan is, geograhically, more justifiable than having a Bostonian play an Ithacan.
RemtonDulyak
Well, she's only described as "white armed", as in "doesn't need to work", meaning she was of noble birth.
Considering that Greek mythology also included Andromeda, an Aethiopian (i.e.: Nubian) princess, and that she's been depicted as white by artists, we can't take artists' depictions as valid, especially knowing how artists follow the currents of their times (see the abundance of white Jesus in art.)
BumbleDee128
Found one
InTangier
They be lurking. It's interesting because I'm fairly sure these folks aren't familiar with the books. "Historical"? Like the "historical" monsters and demigods?
Folks find the most absurd shit to be upset about.
Imjurbro
If you’re so familiar with the source material - did Homer describe Helen’s appearance? Yes he did - and it’s not the casting chosen in the movie. I’m a little annoyed Hollywood is incapable of making a historical movie that remotely looks right (and I personally think the aesthetic of the movie could have been amazing if done right) - but I am DEEPLY upset that the people I vote with accuse me of being cool with slavery for stating it.
InTangier
I'm just going to reply that wow, the rest of this thread went downhill fast. I want some unsee juice.
prosper020
“Homer” also described the appearance of sirens, a hydra, and a cyclops. He also described the ocean as “wine dark”.
All of this is ignoring the fact that we aren’t sure “Homer” was even a real person, with many historians thinking he was a collection of authors given a one name credit.
Ignoring even more, HOMER WAS FUCKING BLIND! He had to take people’s word for how everything and everyone looked.
Ikwilstroopwaffels
Do show me the art from the time that shows her as white. I will wait. Go find us 2700 year old art.
Imjurbro
How about 2,500. https://www.worldhistory.org/image/13343/helen-of-troy/
Ikwilstroopwaffels
So yellow skin and curly black hair. Got it.
Imjurbro
Pretty much actually (I would say olive skinned). But look how much attention is given to separate her black hair from the black background. Almost like she’s supposed to stand out from it.
marthafarquar
It could be agued that a black Helen of Troy was historically accurate if she had been sired by a black swan but black swans were not discovered until 1697 in Western Australia. Leda and the Swan by Peter Paul Rubens completed in 1601
KillingTlme
When you are a great artist, but not a fan of breasts.
tzahtman
When cross breeding with a deity taking the form of a swan the color of the swan plays almost no role in the genetics being passed on.
MrAcurite
Ah yes. Queen Leda. Daughter of King Thestius. Son of Ares. Son of Zeus. Making Leda Zeus' great-granddaughter. Are we sure that Lupita Nyong'o can portray someone that inbred?
KillingTlme
and what color was the skin of the indigenous people living in Australia?
FellaWithUmbrella
Does this count for photographic evidence? Just like all those pictures of white, blue eyed Jesus? /s
SilkStockingFullOfShit
They hadn't been discovered, but they were imagined.
In the late 1st or early 2nd century roman author Juvenal wrote:
"Rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno"
a bird as rare upon the earth as a black swan
An equivalent phrase to "rare as hens teeth" or "rare as rocking horse shit."
tentacularfleshscape
Giving rise to the concept of a black swan fallacy
icannotthinkofanyrationalname
"Rocking horse shit" Lol.... Reminds me of the old "Does a snake have hips? Does a chicken have lips? Does a hobby horse have a hickory dick?"