SpectrumSucks
66727
1173
52
Jul 19, 2023 11:04 PM
SpectrumSucks
66727
1173
52
nik282000
RummageSaleBubbler
Guess it's self driving from here on out.
dajuan
It's just a software glitch, the next app update will fix it.
Marine0311
A friend of mine has two sons that both worked for Tesla. They both said it was a hellscape of toxicity. Both of them got out as soon as they could.
ChrisVZ
That’s a gas pedal. Obviously not a Tesla. /s
friendsofsandwiches
jeeeeeesus christ. holy fuck...even the worst car I've ever been in, and I'm thinking like, original beetles, gremlin, rabbit, NONE of them have had THAT shitty of a basic part. That is SERIOUSLY shitfuckery on a WHOLE other level.
Rauca
Probably been mashing the pedal in too many traffic light races on his milk float.
WeatherWiz
pseudoersatz
Shittacular electric vehicle might shock.
ewakko89
I have a love/hate relationship with my tesla. Spouse needed his o2 sensor and catalytic converted replaced today. Today I didn't hate tesla. The fast charging is awesome.
GreaseMonkeyOfLove
Oh, the dreaded P0420.
blockberd
For anyone who thinks they are making a joke, that code is the OBD2 code for catalyst inefficiency
applesforjuice
I don't know enough about cars to identify a vehicle from the gas pedal. How do we know this is a tesla and know what happened?
worstcatever
Innovation
GanjalfTheClear
Market cap of $900 billion. Why do we Americans love buying trash?
HelloToe
Tesla's market cap only makes sense if you expect them to completely wipe out the existing global auto industry.
SwiftyGuy
“We Americans”? You’re an American, you explain it.
dohcohv
The market cap doesn't have anything to do with sales. Toyota sells 9x what Tesla does and it's only worth 260B.
GanjalfTheClear
getthismanabeer
He was pointing out that it's overvalued.
anotherIngloriousHandle
it’s now the break pedal
Ranb40
The alternator went out on my 2016 F-150 a little while ago. It did not make me whine about Fords. I got it fixed and went on with my life. My brother has a 2018 Tesla Model 3 that runs well with nary a problem, other than reduced regen on very cold winter drives. He bobsledded into Duluth one day and got a ticket for 70 in a 55. HA! If I buy an EV it will be a Tesla or something else with access to the Tesla DC charging network.
compu85
I mean... GM has had a recall for that same fault for years.
DimensionalSparkle
I can’t believe that’s the pedal, my last car was under $30k brand new (I bought used) but it came with aluminum pedals. This looks like a 1996 Honda civic pedal
psmith00
The only and I mean only reason I would own a Tesla was for the Dog Air Conditioning trick. When buying an EV is in the budget, that's the first feature I'll be looking for.
teardropivyyearofthetiger
?
psmith00
Tesla cars can be left unattended with a dog in them. They can be set to run the air conditioner to keep the car's internal temperature in a safe zone and the LCD screen in the car states that the air temperature in the car is degrees and the dog is listening to . Anyone who comes across a dog in a Tesla displaying this image on the LCD would be hard pressed to explain why they broke open the car to rescue the dog. Any other car that does that gets my vote over Tesla.
ragazzino
Hexxxxxxxxx
Idk man. My tesla is the most comfortable and best driving car I've ever sat in or driven.
teardropivyyearofthetiger
Or a really nice Prius
Hexxxxxxxxx
Please read the other response and my response
Hexxxxxxxxx
Also, pretty sure there are no priuss' with the milage range my car has
TheyDontKnowAndYouCantTellEm
Then you don't have much experience with really good cars. Like a high end Lexus. Or a Corvette. Or a BMW X3.
Hexxxxxxxxx
Also, our x3 happens to be one from their best production years. They aren't that good anymore.
Hexxxxxxxxx
Uh, our other car is a BMW x3, I have even been in a Maserati. Don't make assumptions about other people opinions. I still stand by what I said.
Hexxxxxxxxx
You should take some advice from your own username.
Hexxxxxxxxx
Just replace "they" with "I".
ElbowDeepInYou
Yup, things only break on Tesla's, that's a fact. /s
IThrowLemons
Look at the photo. See what is the actual item that has broken. Do you really think that is normal and happens to all manufacturers?
ElbowDeepInYou
/2 Now do a search for "gas pedal broke off", happy reading.
ElbowDeepInYou
Do a search for Tesla gas pedal break, two items, one from 2017 and an article from 2019, when they used plastic accelerator pedals, you're acting like this happens on the regular. Are you seriously implying that no other brands have freak breakage of any and all parts? No callbacks for bad designs? What universe do you live in?
IThrowLemons
Has there been a callback from Tesla for that?
ElbowDeepInYou
Was one needed? Two broken accelerators on tens of thousands does not indicate a significant problem.
WeaponizedJerk
Y'all acting as if this shit happens with absolutely no other car manufacturer need to get off the Elon hate train for a bit.
GrudJumper
The gas pedal on my Ford explorer fell off. I say stay on the hate train though, Elon sucks. I love my model y though.
WeaponizedJerk
Not that he doesn't deserve it, but still, it's making a lot of you look silly.
purr
at least it's not the brake.
Yupurineutah
Actually it's for acceleration and for deceleration. The brake pedal is only for emergency stops.
friendsofsandwiches
no, it's the broke.
dohcohv
The brake won't break until you need to use the brakes.
petety
seriously? is that thing made of pot metal?
theonetheycallmonk
If I were to make a guess, I'd say cast aluminum. They pour molten aluminum in a mold and it takes shape however you like. It's light, cheap, and fairly strong. Unfortunately, if you don't cast aluminum right, it forms voids in the cast called 'junk' and losses a lot of strength. Many of problems with modern day car engines (Kia and Hyundai specifically) can be traced to poorly made cast aluminum engines. It's also why modern day engines are nearly impossible to repair because you can't weld it.
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
Which part of an engine would you be thinking of welding?
blockberd
The head. Those are getting welded quite often due to cracks (from any manufacturer).
ShinksAvoHazaar
It looks like pit metal.
Fasrill
Clearly it's shit metal.
edalton454
"pot"
NSAgent
I have a 4 year old model 3 with no problems. I love it, I hate Elon. I’m at 50,000 miles and am going to ride it out until it doesn’t work any more. My next car will also not be gas powered and 92.36% will not be a Tesla.
baecaughtmewhackin
I have a 3-year-old Model Y and bought it primarily because of the supercharging infrastructure because I do regular road trips. The car is "fine", and is solidly in the middle of cars that I've owned as far as how much I like it. Elon is a fucking tool.
NSAgent
Curious about your other cars. Before my Tesla I had a new Prius C, a new Yaris, a used truck, a used minivan, and my first car was a used Toyota Tercel. My Model 3 is the nicest car I’ve ever owned, but that could totally be contextual.
datteslur
Same here, been the best car I've ever owned for the past 3 decades. But if Elon is still in charge when I'm ready to buy again it won't be Tesla.
robocrook
8 years and still going strong (S)
thefrully
Same - Love the car except the rockers are devoid of paint and rusting. Gonna have to slap some spray primer on when we get some dry days to protect it until it gets actual paint repair.
IBroughtASpareDrainpipe
a good comment. Same here, new Y. Good thinking.
ryanegt
Love my 5 year old model 3. Nothing has broke or replaced in 50k miles except tires and windshield wiper fluid. Not an Elon fanboy by any means, would rather send love and praise to the thousands of engineers and employees who’ve put their soul into the car despite their boss being a wanker.
Filanwizard
Similar to why I say it’s still okay to be impressed by SpaceX landing rockets. I suspect most of the engineers and rocket scientists that did the real “magic” are not wankers. Hell there are rumors that the rocket company has a “Musk Wrangler” specifically to buffer engineering from him so they can do their thing.
ElbowDeepInYou
Anyone not impressed by two rockets landing side by side, simultaneously, well... What can I say. :)
ElbowDeepInYou
That Musk wrangler bit, have you read about that anywhere outside Imgur? ;D
firefighter26
2019 model 3 with 75k kms; it's easily been the best car we've ever owned in 25 years of driving. Tired and wipers it all it has needed. I don't care much for musk now that he's off the deep end, but I don't regret buying this car at all; it's done everything I've needed it and is still fun to drive (the instant power to the wheels still catches me off guard from time to time).
ilovebigmutts
They're not operated with a game controller?
ConDFIN
Plaid yoke-wheel isn't game controller? I think it is...
MagicOrpheus310
Maybe less people would die in them if they did 🤔
[deleted]
[deleted]
Ranb40
Not for steering, diving or the reactor controls. They are much more primitive than xbox and super reliable/durable.
Trelfar
For operating the periscope, from what I remember, but yeah game controllers are built to take a lot of punishment so they're not a terrible choice despite the jokes. In fact it was probably the most durable part of that sorry excuse for a submersible.
MacClay
You could probably rig a slot car controller to it if you wanted to.
CanadianCobraChicken
No. An orange.
SaltyInternetPirate
Only because the laws would forbid them
Rezol
Sort of! There are games you can play on the screen using the wheel and pedals to control. (obviously not while driving, even though ol' musky would probably love to sell the idea that you could while it's self-driving)
friendsofsandwiches
give it time.
RummageSaleBubbler
Just assume Elon runs Tesla like he runs Twitter.
eggmuffin
Tesla and SpaceX have "Musk-wranglers" on staff. People whose unofficial job is to manage Elon Musk, mitigating the damage he can do. Twitter does not, and we see the result.
HowMuchWoodCouldAWoodDuckDuckIfAWoodDuckCouldDuckWood
I read about all the shady shit and corners he's cut at Twitter and I have to assume he does the same shit at Tesla.
Grimmrog
Not gonna make it to mars ever with spacex
BlazeMarshall
I'd heard that Tesla has dedicated resources to "handling" Elon to protect the company from him, and that Twitter didn't have that which is why he ran it into the ground so quickly.
Soulshade
Elons just always been the bankroll. No idea what hes doing. He is pretty much Homer building a car
VulpesIncendium
And Space X, and pretty much every other successful Musk-funded company.
Beelsebooob
NASA required that Gwynn Shotwell was given basically complete control to keep getting contracts from them.
Sechran
While I'm glad Tesla made people more open to the idea of electric vehicles, I would go with basically any other brand for one.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
Tesla will make a nice stepping stone, and it only came at the cost of self-driving cars.
ImgurPlz
The new Prius looks fantastic, especially with some custom wheels.
masheenest
I saw a personalized plate on a Tesla that said “bad gaps” the other day, made me literally laugh out loud.
MartianBase
anything Musk is to be avoided. He is an evil version of Dracula.
BunnyGoesHopHop
It's a status symbol to them, most of them don't give a shit if there is a possibility of them helping the environment.
MissAizea
I hate that it made people jump straight over hybrids. Electric trucks have horrendous range when hauling. I think a hybrid would have been able to bridge that gap better.
rallybug
Yup, hybrid would be the way forward for pickups and the like - on battery for chores around town, ICE for the longer trips
WackyTicTacCasualty
I went electric last year - Hyundai Kona. Aside from the poor build quality of Teslas, what stopped me from buying one was the determination that 'ol Musky wouldn't be able to pocket any of my money.
Snooj
They're like the Vonage of the EV world. I'm trying out an EV for the next couple days and hella excited. Especially as it's not a Tesla.
mercbrit
What did you choose?
Snooj
Technically it was my son's choice, I'm borrowing his car for a couple days. It's an Audi Q8 e-tron.
mercbrit
Nice. Pricey but nice.
Snooj
Yes on both counts. I have a deposit in on an R1S but the reviews I've seen are 50/50 so I'm not convinced. This would be cheaper but I also have my eye on the Nissan Ariya. Anything less than the Rivian would diminish my ability to haul dogs around so it would mean using my wife's car any time we do dog related activities, which is a lot. So it's not an easy choice.
HelloToe
They've got the most advanced electric drivetrain, but they're still trying to figure out literally everything else about making cars and being a car company.
StewedTomaters
Did they figure out that whole "closing doors on your bratwurst/fingers" thing that was happening in EU models?
Alban3000
I dont understand the fan group. They take away key features and the customer claps because Tesla has a better bottom line now. Seems like the enthusiasm is intertwined with business economics
maphilli14
I still love my Chevy bolt
arewenotkingsandqueenstogether
I have a Leaf, and it's perfect. Zippy and highly maneuverable, no gas or oil changes. Not as sexy as a Tesla I guess, but it gets me around
blinkie79
Literally ANY real car company would be a better choice. Yes, even Volkswagen.
Fasrill
I'd personally go with one from Mitsubishi. But that would require them to sell pure EVs in my country, and for me to get my driver's license.
Caldersson
I remember the all electric Mitsubishi Evo with a motor in each wheel. Those were in the dying days of Mitsubishi and will probably never come, like the return of the almighty 3000gt.
yoyo42
Tesla make a good electric drivetrain. They don't make good cars.
Hukkie
At least VW will not have to lie about emissions with an electric vehicle, should save them some money in the long run.
tirohtar
(btw, basically all big car brands in the US faked their emissions data - the US went after VW for the big fines cause they aren't a US brand so it wouldn't hurt their donors and lobbyists...)
MrSnuffleupagus172
Volkswagen of America is a subsidiary of VW and is an American company established to oversee VW operations in the USA. VW didn’t just falsify their emissions, they installed software that would allow the vehicle to sense when it was being tested, and modify its performance to reduce emissions. VW also recalled European vehicles for this reason. Subsequent to this, other manufacturers were also investigated.
LordHosk
and none were found to have anything approaching this scale of fraud.
Keeperofthe7keys
ID.4 might not be fancy but it's built quality and good value.
Snooj
Unless you're 6' tall and want to ride in the back seat.
PINEAPPLEOVERLORD9K
imagine if they hadnt fucked up the diesel cars, WE COULD HAVE HYBRID DIESEL ENGINES GETTING 70+ MILES PER GALLON OR MORE AND I AM MAD AF
DdCno1
Except for VinFast. Avoid that brand at all costs. They make Teslas look like Rolls Royce.
blinkie79
That's not a real car company either. Tesla and Vinfast are the fast fashion of the auto industry, just fly by night nonsense owned by mega rich looking to get richer.
DdCno1
Tesla is a real car company at this point. Their quality is subpar, but their cars are best sellers around the globe. The Tesla Model Y was the best selling car in Europe last year.
f3n1x187
patiently waiting for a clasic VW Bus electric, lovingly called over here Combi.
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
You mean like the ID.Buzz? Already on sale,
f3n1x187
not where I live, and I hope there is a model that looks a bit more like the bus and less like the Crafter/transporter with windows.
LordHosk
Still waiting on the US release, we have told our local dealer that we will be the first to buy one.
EchoOfSnac
What's amazing is that link actually works. >.>
TychoTheMad
It's cool, but it's missing that classic vw bus look. It just doesn't bring to mind the proper aesthetic of free love, rock'n roll, and the CIA dosing you with a thousand hits of LSD
MarkiusFox
That's because of 73 years of automotive safety. The first gen Microbus/Combi/Transporter (also called the Type 2) was still in production in Brazil as late as 2013. The Transporter is now in it's 7th generation with the T7 Multivan. The ID.Buzz is tangentially related, but built on a different platform than the T7.
EchoOfSnac
I think it does alright with referencing the original visually. I'm disappointed it's got the interior of an SUV instead of a minivan, though. Why buy a van if it only has five seats? ┗(•ˇ_ˇ•)―
yourelivingalloverme
Someone please draw a face on that.
OmnibusLatinName
I was hoping for a "shocked Picaciu" face :(
yeahhedugit
majortool
NarratesTheDarkerStory
yourclevernusername
Get me pictures of Spider-Man!
badatediting
Like that? Did I do it right?
itsanoforme
KeyMasher
Redyls
is that you dad? when you coming home?
yeahhedugit
KeyMasher
PrincessPizzaPusssy
Come back with lightly fried fish filets in 2 hours.
badatediting
Say lightly fried fish fillets one more time...
Tylurker
MeatPopsicleMultiPass
TheEvilPlatypus
8v45p4tjm611
Internet always wins
kiddk00l
yourelivingalloverme
I love you!
millacores
So do I!!
TheEvilPlatypus
elbowdeepinawhateverthatis
Here’s a high resolution one.
elbowdeepinawhateverthatis
Here’s a high resolution one.
algoritham
horseman05
I am currently shopping for a new car. Test drove a new Tesla last week. Not. Even.A.Small. Chance!
Trelfar
We recently bought a Subaru Solterra (which is actually a Toyota bZ4X with Subaru trim) and have been happy with it. We also test drove a Volvo XC40 which despite being about $10k more expensive felt cheaper both on the interior and the driving experience.
MjnMixael
I've got an Ioniq 5 on order. Hyundai has some great EVs available.
techley
I have a Polestar 2 that I got in January and I'm in love with it. If there's a space nearby I recommend at least test driving one. They have a similar no haggle transparent sales process to Tesla, and made by parent company Volvo.
Keeperofthe7keys
Having a Mach-E, would never get an ICE at this point, you should definitely check out Hyundai/Kia, they're the ones to beat atm imo.
Nizedk
What's the 100-200 time on that bad boy?
MentalUproar
Consider an electric from someone else. Hyundai has some really nice ones
Keeperofthe7keys
Hyundai/Kia honestly have the best offerings atm, especially value wise, you'd need to step up to Porsche or Lucid to get that 800v charging.
DarkBusterBaron
I do like my Hyundai it's not electric though.
IdiotSavantTinker
I'd buy an EV from an actual car company. Ford, Hyundai, Volvo, GM, all make one.
Hukkie
The latest models from Volvo has me really excited.
Fhant
But think of the money you don't give to Musk! /S
pm1001
I know I'll get stuck for this..I love em. Hate musk, great cars
mikenaulls
I’ll throw myself to the wolves as well. Tesla may have a shithead for a CEO and QC problems, but when it comes to what counts in an EV, they’re tops. Best batteries, most efficient motors, in-car software and UI (except for some things better suited to physical buttons). Other brands are rushing their EVs and having issues. VW - shit software (must go to dealer to update), Hyundai - cars giving up mid-drive, Ford - batteries and motors dying, GM - batteries exploding, all OEMS - dealer markups
horseman05
For what you pay they are cheaply made and the craftsmanship is terrible. I drove a Demo that had body panel gaps that were uneven,clunky and way to much cheap plastic.
porcinechoirmaster
We have one and haven't any of the quality control issues that people have had recently, but we have one of the earlier units. It works very well for us.
flarflarf
the QA is basically nonexistant. If you get a good one, they're probably still the best all-electric car. If you dont, you'll have panel gaps, literally drips in the paint, missing interior trim, all kinds of problems. So yeah roll the dice if you wanna but they will absolutely try to pressure you with "well, if you refuse delivery on this one you go to the back of the queue." Friend had to refuse delivery on two before she got a decent one.
friendsofsandwiches
so in other words, don't sell your old car.
[deleted]
[deleted]
friendsofsandwiches
.....the electric cars DO work, and given proper construction and maintenance, and not be a fucking massive money grub, they WOULD help the environment. The PROBLEM is...we have fucking MUSK MONEY in CHARGE of this shit, and doing everything in his power to milk customers bone dry.
eggmuffin
You are correct to maintain the focus on the total carbon footprint (and other pollutants) resulting from the whole chain from materials extraction and parts manufacturing, to product delivery and lifespan. I had planned on putting a "but" here now, but I changed my mind. I'm trying to only say nice things today.
EndorForestSummerCamp83
A guy I work with said “Teslas are what a middle class person’s idea of what a rich people car is”. Very shiny, but all for show - not for quality/value
VodkaReindeer
the rich people car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ95XJAwaoc
crossingdynasty
Kind of like how Musk is an idiots idea of what a genius inventor is.
Retrogames
McMansions and Trump too. What dumb people think wealth looks like.
Anlurai
I was just thinking the other day that they're pretty much the Michael Kors of cars.
StevieTheAussie
Rich people also have the funds to wear clothes one time then throw em away and buy more. Same goes for cars maybe?
lettersnumbersbeepboop
I once overheard 2 execs talking about their Porches and how they’re always n the shop. My boss had a Beamer he loved. Also always needing repairs. Lol I’ll take my ‘01 Nissan thanks.
potshot
Sports cars will always need a lot of work, that's part of the package unfortunately. But honestly I've also known fancier cars to be constantly targeted by people who just want to damage or break in to the car.
ArdentNature
Tbf all premium car brands ocercharge on what they are actually worth. I have close friends working in management at both Mercedes and Audi.
muchLongerUsername
The specs and photos are great, but I've been disappointed by the actual reviews.
Slappythedunmmy
Absuol!
Soulshade
Well, used to be Cadillac but we now have a new winner
freshage
When I moved back to Europe... New tesla or almost new V60 inscription... So glad I didn't buy into the tesla. This was just before the theme of their shit quality became apparent
KingXizor
I snooped around an eMustang and a Subaru Solterra over the weekend. Mustang had some pretty dope feeling to it but the Solterra was pretty damn fine too, and I trust ford not to fuck up a mustang and subaru to build most anything to last.
TinkerThinker42
Sorry bz4x
Drastix
I drove the Mustang for about half a year. Drives great but charges slow compared to the EV6 and Ioniq5 and in winter the range dropped by almost half. I still love the way it looks but the ev-platform is not that great.
drcookieninja
I wouldn't trust Ford to make anything. Maybe their trucks, but I'm not a truck guy. The Mustangs I've driven all go loud and sorta fast if going straight in dry flat road. Maybe I just need to try the Shelby's, but for that price there's much better choices
forevernatalie
Drive the Ioniq 5, too! Super fun and minimalist interior that I loved
astrangehop
They've solved it since, but 90s Subarus had bodies that just dissolved. Engine and drivetrain were rugged though.
rallybug
Although, at one point (can't remember which years) Subaru did have cylinder head gaskets issue for their engines.
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
Buy Lexus, experience the q u a l i t y
forevernatalie
Drive the Ioniq 5, too! Super fun and minimalist interior that I loved
TinkerThinker42
If you have time, check out the Toyota bzx4. Terrible name but same car as the Solterra with slightly different trim, software, price, and color options. Not sure on my preference yet but maybe in 2 years I'll be ready to make a decision.
YoudSwearImAVirgin
I just want a newer car with the one of the neutral colored exterior paints.
AlwaysUpvoteBunnies
Priced like a Porsche, built like a 90s Kia
volch1tsa
Porsches aren't exactly the pinnacle of reliability either though
ATastyCorpsesicle
That's why they said *PRICED* like a Porsche.
00110001001001111010000110110110011
A 90s Kia has a more well built gas pedal…
DidItForScience
It really seemed like they were much better built in the past.
TaiPan87
Well, a base Taycan is the same price as a Full Model S Plaid. So, the Tesla is quite a bit cheaper.
Skizzlesnap
And a base Taycan feels likes its actually built well and not held together by paper clips and Musk-hype. I’d take a base Taycan over a Tesla for the interior alone.
Bovisstercus
Huh. In my country, Teslas are by far the best value EV when considering space and horsepower. You're almost forced to buy one if you value performance... not that most people actually need 450+ horsepower for their crossover, of course.
DraxisWyrmtail
I feel like that is an insult to 90s KIAs
drcookieninja
No, KIAs are pretty dogshit. But I can appreciate the sentiment.
LCDC
I remember when they were bogo and people still wouldn’t buy them
thetonestarr
Eh not really. Priced like what a lower middle class person THINKS a Porsche is. Porsches are more expensive.
TheN8
Exactly. Most Porsches are knocking on the door of six-figures (in £). Sure, some people buy the base marques, but everyone at the country club will know you cheaped out...
captainhappen
In my (limited) experience, the expensive country club set is more likely to be driving a 15 year old Volvo than a new SUV.
TheN8
That's true enough, but those Volvos were also quite expensive when new. Top of the range XC90 is about $80,000. It's like the difference between driving Range Rover Evoque and an SV. Lots buy a new evoque with its economical diesel engine to keep up with the Jones' - but old money still hoon around in their ancient HSE with the massive V8 petrol and think nothing of it.
DontTazeMeBrah
Me a man of culture: Porsche 924
dieselfury
981
JonD1957
Me, a man of even greater discernment: Porsche 928 S4. 😁
DontTazeMeBrah
**Jeremy Clarkson** has entered chat
captainhappen
A base model Porsche SUV is about the same as a Tesla SUV.
TheN8
A base Porsche Macan is £53,000 (about $68,000). A base Cayenne is £67,000 (~$86,000), though most marques sold are about £80,000 ($103,000). A base version Model Y is £44,000 (~$57,000), with a performance model at £59,000 (~$76,000).
thetonestarr
Go feature for feature and compare models with comparable models. Tesla does have some more expensive models but the bulk of their offerings are noticeably lower than Porsche's. They aren't comparable.
thetonestarr
Not sure why I got downvoted when the other guy provided numbers that proved me right but lol whatever.
DrMarioSThompson
One of the even comes with an accelerator pedal that doesn't break. Luxury
Hypothesist
that going to be a subscription plan