166081 pts ยท February 19, 2013
Do you think they're not? Or that gambling isn't a contract?
Surprised it's not upside down
The "office" isn't a physical location that has power, it's the actual position. The military doesn't follow the orders of "whoever is currently occupying the White House", they follow the orders of the President.
I apologize if you feel strawmanned, I 100% am not trying to (though I may be doing it unintentionally). I'm really unsure what you're trying to say - you said " I mean you, the reader or watcher or whatever, have determined that because its the writer who made the choice it doesn't matter what the character does or says ultimately, because its not really the characters choice.". The writers made a decision and I think that decision was a bad decision. I'm not sure how that's confusing.
You said that Legion chose "he" pronouns and that should be respected regardless of why he chose it. And I responded with the fact that Legion didn't choose anything, the writers in the room made the decision that Legion would use "he", and I think that's the wrong (and less interesting) decision. To which you responded "with that logic why not just call everyone the wrong pronouns or even the wrong name?".
"why not just call everyone the wrong pronouns or even the wrong name?"
Yeah, because the Federal government doesn't have an organization already dedicated to overseeing it. There's a federal law that "gives the CFTC exclusive authority to regulate the event contracts traded on their federally registered exchanges". Plaintiffs argue that the States can't regulate the federally registered exchanges and that, based on other caselaw, they're likely to win, so their injunction was granted.
Okay, so I'm saying "the artistic choice they made here was a bad one, as it both conflicts with other parts of the game's text and it ends up not exploring what could have been a rich and interesting sci-fi concept, of a collective which has little tie to any particular physical form", and your response is "well then the writer's could've just used the wrong names for everybody"
Yes, we all have sufficient free will to make whatever choices we want, including deciding to use words in novel ways that don't enhance communication. If the only thing you have to offer is "there is no such thing as better or worse" then why bother commenting? If writing can't be weak, then it also can't be strong. If all artistic choices are equal then there's no point in analysis, it's all just "either like it or don't".
They were jawesome!
That is certainly possible - can you point to any other examples within Mass Effect of any of the Geth having any difficulties with parts of English, to support that theory?
Sure - they chose to focus on those parts of his character, but they also wrote a *lot* about how the Geth work, but then didn't really show it. Like, we are directly told that it isn't a single consciousness that is Legion, we're repeatedly shown that it's a collective of many different individual Geth, but that complexity just isn't explored (by choice by the writers) and I think that was something that would've been interesting to explore - hence dropping the ball.
My logic is "this is a work of fiction, and the writers made a choice I think wasn't ideal" - how do we go from that to "therefore writers should write their characters using the wrong pronouns all the time"?
pipatron
That's kind of my point - they made a game where this part, and basically everything with the Geth, was half thought through. I do love Legion, and Tali - I love the games and play them regularly - but they had the opportunity to be an actual great work of art, instead of just a great game to play.
Sure - except Legion chooses that name specifically because "*we* are Legion", and is talking in that particular dialogue about how there isn't one unit that Shepherd is talking to, but thousands. Saying that Legion doesn't understand the difference is undermined by the text itself, and the fact that Legion is referencing literary works with real and meaningful understanding.
That's true, but if they weren't going to explore it then why put so much in there that suggests they will explore it. It's not necessary to have it be a non-binary (or DID) allegory, it can just be about how different a lifeform that was digital would be - but they started writing that, they put in background and lore and seeded it, then never actually grew it into an idea they explored.
Not that they didn't write the way I would - I couldn't have written nearly as well (except the original ending for ME3, that I could've done). But that they wrote in something really interesting, had a great way to explore the idea, and then just didn't do it at all.
I mean, he wasn't flying for recreation, he was escaping a prison/tower.
Except that Legion isn't an actual person, he's a character being written by writers who are the ones who chose "he", despite him choosing the name "legion" because they are many, because "we are legion".
They really dropped the ball with Legion and the Geth altogether. We're told that Legion is thousands of programs, and that the body is just a shell - he should use "they" pronouns since Legion is literally a collective of many different individuals. The Geth are said to be networked so they're smarter in larger groups - we never see evidence of that. We're told that the robots aren't "the geth", but just platforms, but they're treated like the physical actual forms just like any lifeform.
Truly a legend
Sure, but that's why I asked how much the loan was for that it could be 4k a month and not paid off in 10 years or so, what payment schedule is the person on - I'm just following the math.
Yeah, this seems kind of like "structuring", in the banking world, which is when you try to break up a deposit into multiple under 10k to avoid the automatic reporting threshold. It's not actually hard to have both a hard cutoff and having it be criminal to *avoid* that threshold.
Let's work with some numbers - taking out 20k per semester, 40k per year, at 18% interest, accruing for 4 years, you'll have borrowed 160k and owe 233k. In fact, no matter how much you take out (assuming two disbursements per year, 6 months apart) you'll owe 46% more after 4 years at 18% interest.
3/3 Economy - the US blows Russia out of the water. The median income in the US is multiple times that of Russian median income (when adjusted for purchasing power, not just nominal). Most striking is disposable income (i.e. take-home). Russian median is ~$12k/year. US median is about $40k. So even if someone in the US had an extra $10k a year in healthcare expenses, they're still more than twice as well off as an equivalent Russian.
2/3 Healthcare - the US's healthcare ranks relatively low, particularly on efficiency, but Russia's typically ranks lower. The average person in the US is likely better off than the average person in Russia particularly as they age. https://ghsindex.org/global/dataal/data/">https://ghsindex.org/global/data/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC26951">/ h">al/data/">https://ghsindex.org/global/data/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2695168/ https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Health/Quality-of-health-care-system
Sure - let's compare. 1/3 Education - comparison is tough to find, but Russia is generally in the top 15-30 in the world, and the US is generally in the top 5-35 in the world (much wider band based on our top-tier universities and our fairly-average public schools, though Democrat strongholds fare much better than our national average). https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/">-country">https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country https://www.topuniversities.com/system-strength-rankings/2018
You might want to do that math again - 18% interest doubles every 6 *years*, not months. The interest rate is always annual, not monthly.
Do you think they're not? Or that gambling isn't a contract?
Surprised it's not upside down
The "office" isn't a physical location that has power, it's the actual position. The military doesn't follow the orders of "whoever is currently occupying the White House", they follow the orders of the President.
I apologize if you feel strawmanned, I 100% am not trying to (though I may be doing it unintentionally). I'm really unsure what you're trying to say - you said " I mean you, the reader or watcher or whatever, have determined that because its the writer who made the choice it doesn't matter what the character does or says ultimately, because its not really the characters choice.". The writers made a decision and I think that decision was a bad decision. I'm not sure how that's confusing.
You said that Legion chose "he" pronouns and that should be respected regardless of why he chose it. And I responded with the fact that Legion didn't choose anything, the writers in the room made the decision that Legion would use "he", and I think that's the wrong (and less interesting) decision. To which you responded "with that logic why not just call everyone the wrong pronouns or even the wrong name?".
"why not just call everyone the wrong pronouns or even the wrong name?"
Yeah, because the Federal government doesn't have an organization already dedicated to overseeing it. There's a federal law that "gives the CFTC exclusive authority to regulate the event contracts traded on their federally registered exchanges". Plaintiffs argue that the States can't regulate the federally registered exchanges and that, based on other caselaw, they're likely to win, so their injunction was granted.
Okay, so I'm saying "the artistic choice they made here was a bad one, as it both conflicts with other parts of the game's text and it ends up not exploring what could have been a rich and interesting sci-fi concept, of a collective which has little tie to any particular physical form", and your response is "well then the writer's could've just used the wrong names for everybody"
Yes, we all have sufficient free will to make whatever choices we want, including deciding to use words in novel ways that don't enhance communication. If the only thing you have to offer is "there is no such thing as better or worse" then why bother commenting? If writing can't be weak, then it also can't be strong. If all artistic choices are equal then there's no point in analysis, it's all just "either like it or don't".
They were jawesome!
That is certainly possible - can you point to any other examples within Mass Effect of any of the Geth having any difficulties with parts of English, to support that theory?
Sure - they chose to focus on those parts of his character, but they also wrote a *lot* about how the Geth work, but then didn't really show it. Like, we are directly told that it isn't a single consciousness that is Legion, we're repeatedly shown that it's a collective of many different individual Geth, but that complexity just isn't explored (by choice by the writers) and I think that was something that would've been interesting to explore - hence dropping the ball.
My logic is "this is a work of fiction, and the writers made a choice I think wasn't ideal" - how do we go from that to "therefore writers should write their characters using the wrong pronouns all the time"?
pipatron
That's kind of my point - they made a game where this part, and basically everything with the Geth, was half thought through. I do love Legion, and Tali - I love the games and play them regularly - but they had the opportunity to be an actual great work of art, instead of just a great game to play.
Sure - except Legion chooses that name specifically because "*we* are Legion", and is talking in that particular dialogue about how there isn't one unit that Shepherd is talking to, but thousands. Saying that Legion doesn't understand the difference is undermined by the text itself, and the fact that Legion is referencing literary works with real and meaningful understanding.
That's true, but if they weren't going to explore it then why put so much in there that suggests they will explore it. It's not necessary to have it be a non-binary (or DID) allegory, it can just be about how different a lifeform that was digital would be - but they started writing that, they put in background and lore and seeded it, then never actually grew it into an idea they explored.
Not that they didn't write the way I would - I couldn't have written nearly as well (except the original ending for ME3, that I could've done). But that they wrote in something really interesting, had a great way to explore the idea, and then just didn't do it at all.
I mean, he wasn't flying for recreation, he was escaping a prison/tower.
Except that Legion isn't an actual person, he's a character being written by writers who are the ones who chose "he", despite him choosing the name "legion" because they are many, because "we are legion".
They really dropped the ball with Legion and the Geth altogether. We're told that Legion is thousands of programs, and that the body is just a shell - he should use "they" pronouns since Legion is literally a collective of many different individuals. The Geth are said to be networked so they're smarter in larger groups - we never see evidence of that. We're told that the robots aren't "the geth", but just platforms, but they're treated like the physical actual forms just like any lifeform.
Truly a legend
Sure, but that's why I asked how much the loan was for that it could be 4k a month and not paid off in 10 years or so, what payment schedule is the person on - I'm just following the math.
Yeah, this seems kind of like "structuring", in the banking world, which is when you try to break up a deposit into multiple under 10k to avoid the automatic reporting threshold. It's not actually hard to have both a hard cutoff and having it be criminal to *avoid* that threshold.
Let's work with some numbers - taking out 20k per semester, 40k per year, at 18% interest, accruing for 4 years, you'll have borrowed 160k and owe 233k. In fact, no matter how much you take out (assuming two disbursements per year, 6 months apart) you'll owe 46% more after 4 years at 18% interest.
3/3 Economy - the US blows Russia out of the water. The median income in the US is multiple times that of Russian median income (when adjusted for purchasing power, not just nominal). Most striking is disposable income (i.e. take-home). Russian median is ~$12k/year. US median is about $40k. So even if someone in the US had an extra $10k a year in healthcare expenses, they're still more than twice as well off as an equivalent Russian.
2/3 Healthcare - the US's healthcare ranks relatively low, particularly on efficiency, but Russia's typically ranks lower. The average person in the US is likely better off than the average person in Russia particularly as they age. https://ghsindex.org/global/dataal/data/">https://ghsindex.org/global/data/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC26951">/ h">al/data/">https://ghsindex.org/global/data/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2695168/ https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Health/Quality-of-health-care-system
Sure - let's compare. 1/3 Education - comparison is tough to find, but Russia is generally in the top 15-30 in the world, and the US is generally in the top 5-35 in the world (much wider band based on our top-tier universities and our fairly-average public schools, though Democrat strongholds fare much better than our national average). https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/">-country">https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country https://www.topuniversities.com/system-strength-rankings/2018
You might want to do that math again - 18% interest doubles every 6 *years*, not months. The interest rate is always annual, not monthly.