Good to see that fencing is still alive in Mexico! Fun fact: Mexican (then Nueva Espana) swordsman did best Japanese swordsman in a series of battles in early colonial Philippines history, not too shabby.
For what it's worth, different gladiator archetypes were specifically designed for entertainment or as cultural references rather than as effective battlefield or dueling weapons.
Not really. Zweihander/claymores aren't that heavy, and if being wielded by someone with the same skill level as the fencers in the video, *fast* and with greater reach...if a tad out of date in the era of the rapier's popularity.
By the time rapiers became common firearms were already making heavy armor obsolete, which meant heavy weapons like claymores were less popular as well.
My kids go to a fencing school where they teach a ton of combinations, cape, buckler, main gouche, and a huge assortment of different swords. It's a very Ren Faire sort of studio
I vaguely remember recreations of the old sword fighting manuscripts that had that. I want to say it was the Italian ones? But this trying to dredge memories from decades ago so grain of salt and all that.
cloak and dagger isn't a fighting style, it's how you avoid a fight, you hide your dagger in a cloak and then stab someone who doesn't know they're in a fight.
Sorta. Sword and Cape/Cloak, Sword and Dagger, and Sword and Buckler were the three primary ‘offhand pairings’ with swords, so a person fighting ‘Cloak and Dagger’ is using two offhand weapons instead of a primary weapon.
The left hand, or offhand, was seen as vulgar, sneaky, lying, and otherwise dishonest, so this was implying that both of a person’s hands were left-hands, so implying the person was dishonest. Also the cloak doesn’t look like a weapon.
That too, there used to be a trick people did where they hid their dagger under their cloak and stabbed someone as they were walking past, which is also referenced by the phrase cloak and dagger.
Also found. Reference on wikipedia backing the fighting style And the dictionary backs the expression as meaning something being secret/hidden "undercover"
Just adding although many people probably know this already but regarding the left hand having negative connotations can be found in other areas like the word "sin" from Latin's word for "left" (sinister/sinistra).
I'll be damned (no pun intended), that's completely true! I genuinely had no idea sin and sinister didn't share etymology. So what I said only applies specifically to how "sinister" is used in English. TIL!
Another subtly that’s missed in the modern day is that the dagger and cloak were both tools: You carried a dagger with you everywhere, and mostly used it to carve wooden objects back into shape when they were damaged, which happened often. It was also a prybar and the hilt could be used as a hammer.
You also wore your cloak basically everywhere. A sword and a buckler were weapons, not tools. You only used them to fight. Many cities banned bucklers to prevent street fights, some banned swords.
NOINITIATIVE
Good to see that fencing is still alive in Mexico! Fun fact: Mexican (then Nueva Espana) swordsman did best Japanese swordsman in a series of battles in early colonial Philippines history, not too shabby.
NeverEnoughFoxes
Good to see Zorro's daughters keeping swordfighting stylish! :)
Marcolorn
I thought this was Hellish Quart gameplay for a moment.
SonicTheBedhog
This is so cool!
RobertAG25772
Or a complicating factor
RemingtonStyle
Now imagine these had pockets. Mexico would have conquered the world
YippeeKayakOB
The fan trick looks effective, some of the dress tricks do not
Morg729
A Zora movie would be cool
agentcutielocks
A Zora who explores the world with all her animal friends and teaches small children life lessons in both English and Spanish. She could be...
Zora the Explorer!
OhIfIMust
Endocrom
Totally forgot about that game
Fenrishunter500
Someone needs to get @sellswordarts on this, fast!
Dannyalcatraz
Similar to some cape maneuvers.
NothingPrince
As some one who once fenced this is awsome
MadamPuddifoot
What weapon?
Krackajak78
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1OGxkNzVuYWVvenJ6aGt1bmZpejEyMjh2aGR4MG82YXE0bXR6dzljbiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/3o6Mb7uPpO5xnJ64yQ/200w.webp
JustAName00
As someone who was once on a fence, I agree.
TheDreadPirateMontoya
I tried fencing once. I thought it would be easy, but it's actually pretty physically taxing. You have to dig deep holes for those posts.
draqsko
And dig even deeper for a riposte.
ShowUsTheMemesAndNoOneGetsHurt
Gladiators
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retiarius
WolfTarAnis
Hey hey, no need for name calling.
CaptainScarfish
For what it's worth, different gladiator archetypes were specifically designed for entertainment or as cultural references rather than as effective battlefield or dueling weapons.
GreaseMonkeyOfLove
Wouldn’t be as effective against claymores and zweihanders.
doktorivan210
I forgot for a second that a claymore is also a type of sword, and while I still agreed with you, I didn't think that would be much of a fair fight.
BlindGardener
Zweihanders and claymores are intended for battering armoured knights to death, not for fighting in the plaza of a spanish, mexican, or Italian villa.
NothingPrince
By the time you swing a claymore you would be dead
Athol
Not really. Zweihander/claymores aren't that heavy, and if being wielded by someone with the same skill level as the fencers in the video, *fast* and with greater reach...if a tad out of date in the era of the rapier's popularity.
Andunistar
That's not how that works. It's like three pounds at most and it's got a reach advantage.
CaptainScarfish
By the time rapiers became common firearms were already making heavy armor obsolete, which meant heavy weapons like claymores were less popular as well.
dobroweigh
So dresses are allowed, but las chanclas are forbidden?
TheMomaw
Ranged weapon versus melee range defense
dobroweigh
Well, one may throw a sword, too...
OnlyWantToSayOneThing
You use pommels to end someone rightly, you use las chanclas to end someone wrongly.
IupvoteAussies
Those are too dangerous
Schlutt
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear
Sigge1981
Metal Gear!?
Schlutt
!
doktorivan210
I heard this comment
BlindGardener
Capes were originally used for that in some early forms of fencing: Sword and cape.
comeonjointhejoyride
Yep. Not a one woman with skirt did this ever in history.
lackinglife
Beat me to it.
Morg729
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1anYxYXhhYmF5YzE2NmZibmNla3ozMTdrNWR6dDU3Yjh2Y2lmZ3ZkNyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/3R2SRD2ROZJzW/200w.webp
ThaneofGlamis
Check out the fight scenes in Alatriste
nclu
My kids go to a fencing school where they teach a ton of combinations, cape, buckler, main gouche, and a huge assortment of different swords. It's a very Ren Faire sort of studio
terajack2048
But was their father killed by a man with six fingers?
magus200342
I vaguely remember recreations of the old sword fighting manuscripts that had that. I want to say it was the Italian ones? But this trying to dredge memories from decades ago so grain of salt and all that.
BlindGardener
Italy, and Spain mostly is where cape fighting was popular.
animatronicChristmasChickens
Is that where we get cloak and dagger, or is that different?
akafluffy
cloak and dagger isn't a fighting style, it's how you avoid a fight, you hide your dagger in a cloak and then stab someone who doesn't know they're in a fight.
PorneliusHubertII
The cloak was used to hide the dagger. Hard to defend an attack that you cant see coming.
BlindGardener
Sorta. Sword and Cape/Cloak, Sword and Dagger, and Sword and Buckler were the three primary ‘offhand pairings’ with swords, so a person fighting ‘Cloak and Dagger’ is using two offhand weapons instead of a primary weapon.
The left hand, or offhand, was seen as vulgar, sneaky, lying, and otherwise dishonest, so this was implying that both of a person’s hands were left-hands, so implying the person was dishonest. Also the cloak doesn’t look like a weapon.
animatronicChristmasChickens
Neat!
Deathcameawienering
dueling cloaks had weights sewn into the hem so trapping swords was easier
malbec
I’m gonna favorget this info so hard
harmsebamse
Cloak and dagger means stealth mode.
Sneak and backstab
BlindGardener
That too, there used to be a trick people did where they hid their dagger under their cloak and stabbed someone as they were walking past, which is also referenced by the phrase cloak and dagger.
harmsebamse
Also found. Reference on wikipedia backing the fighting style
And the dictionary backs the expression as meaning something being secret/hidden "undercover"
anerdwithaknife
Just adding although many people probably know this already but regarding the left hand having negative connotations can be found in other areas like the word "sin" from Latin's word for "left" (sinister/sinistra).
BoNolHetAhrkDir
English 'sin' doesn't share a root with 'sinister'. It's Germanic from the beginning.
anerdwithaknife
I'll be damned (no pun intended), that's completely true! I genuinely had no idea sin and sinister didn't share etymology. So what I said only applies specifically to how "sinister" is used in English. TIL!
BlindGardener
Another subtly that’s missed in the modern day is that the dagger and cloak were both tools: You carried a dagger with you everywhere, and mostly used it to carve wooden objects back into shape when they were damaged, which happened often. It was also a prybar and the hilt could be used as a hammer.
You also wore your cloak basically everywhere. A sword and a buckler were weapons, not tools. You only used them to fight. Many cities banned bucklers to prevent street fights, some banned swords.
BlindGardener
Almost nobody banned daggers or cloaks.