JoblessJimbo
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Any thoughts?
Sep 20, 2016 7:07 AM
JoblessJimbo
6632
4322
399
Lemmavs
Maybe police officers should do combat training aswell as police training then?
jjb926
Short version answers: Lack of proper training, well meaning but counter productive legislation against non-lethal force methods (1/2)
jjb926
(2/2) like taser and hand to hand, no faith in their equipment (specific to bullet proof vest), understaffed/no backup, and race issues.
Clouderr
Yes, because when someone holds a gun to me, i'm gonna start waving my hands in the air and setting off flares, because that helps 1/3
Clouderr
Stop comparing IRAQ & WAR to thugs in the streets. Honestly, if it's a gun to me and a gun to them, i will feel no burden pulling the 2/3
Clouderr
trigger first. Do we jump to kill for no reason? No, but we certainly self preserve. 3/3
nothistime
when it comes eye to eye, soldiers wont even try to make warning shots, just like police. if your life is threatened, you will shoot. simple
abhorance
The thing about warning shots, it's likely to hit SOMETHING ELSE, then oh shit, there's a dead kid too, now I'm doubly fucked...
Kitastrophe
The militarization of police forces that are not trained to be military is, in fact, a huge part of this problem.
coloradostoneman
Militarization of weapons and tactics with out the training to go with. police are forgetting we are all citizens not compatents
Laszarus
Terrorists aren't often within 20 feet of soldiers who have very little cover, no helmet, and only a pistol.
DualSupernova
Military have actual consequences when you don't follow guidelines. PD get away with it. Fucking sad but true.
turtlechowder
That's not even remotely close to the truth. TONS of police officers are charged every year. You're just too ignorant to realize it
DualSupernova
Unpopular opinion: You can't say that some officers are publicly guilty but put on paid leave. I'm not saying all, I'm saying it happens
turtlechowder
It's mainly because they have to by law. Many PD's are unionized to the 9's its not the chiefs call to pay a officer who is a scum bag.
turtlechowder
Its the union and the PD having to honor the union agreement or the PD gets shafted in the process of taking down a bad cop
FleetwoodMacSexPantss
These situations are completely different though...
SynapNadar
You are comparing Apple's and oranges. Comparing Apple's and oranges is stupid. You are stupid. That's what I think.
somewealthyamerican
For some reason if you were at a military base, a car turned on the street towards you and then gunned it towards the gates, I don't feel >
somewealthyamerican
Like the soldiers would be like "hurry grab the flares and the flags, we got like 8 secs" as he is accelerating towards the base.
CommanderWilliamTRiker
Yeah, that post was written by a guy who never experience that situation.
TribalHARRY
False equivalency. -1
r0b0tc0rpse
1/2 This is a false problem. Use of deadly force is not statistically different in cases where the assailant is black or white.
r0b0tc0rpse
2/3 If your argument is that use of deadly force is too common with law enforcement, irrespective to the race of the assialant, then your
r0b0tc0rpse
3/4 argument might have some traction. But you'd have to be able to quantify situations where deadly force was used before all other options
r0b0tc0rpse
4/4 were expended or viable. Policing 340 million people =/= war, and comparing the rules of one to the other doesn't hold any significance.
TheDurvo
Military train more than a lot of police in some cases. And the mindset is different. Either way, better training would be in order.
MegatronPewPew
People have power trips. A lot of these people aren't screened psychologically or looked at through a lens to determine home life before
MegatronPewPew
Being given a gun. They take their own demons out on others. Happens in management happens in law enforcement the army you name it. It's fuc
MegatronPewPew
Ked up but that's how it goes. Psyche and mentality and "morals".
njullpointer
this is bullshit, sorry. cops do not specifically target blacks. they may need better training, but that's a different issue.
Barnicals
My main thought is that it's nice to see someone on Imgur concerned about this, rather than defending the cops actions.
TakeshiYukai
It's called proper training. The police don't get receive such a thing.
bond100
Bullshit. "NOTHING IN ROE LIMITS YOUR INHERENT AUTHORITY AND OBLIGATION TO TAKE ALL NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE ACTIONS TO DEFEND YOURSELF"
bond100
And for further context, that's printed at the top of the card. On both sides.
Dawnstempest
Well shit.
CoderWithoutCaffeine
@op One marine was just fired for not killing a guy armed trying to commit suicide. Go figure this is ass backwards.
Dawnstempest
Marine or not he did a dumbass thing. When someone is pointing a gun at your buddies you do NOT prioritize their welfare over your friends.
Dawnstempest
There is zero way he could have known that that gun was not loaded. Zero. He made a lucky guess and he was right. That's it. It does not
Dawnstempest
change that had he been wrong there would have been a few more dead officers that day. He did not and does not deserve a place on the force.
Orangeracecar
He was there before the others got there and he accessed the situation.
Orangeracecar
He was there before the others got there and he accessed the situation.
beanblanket
In most countries police have the advantage of superior weapons, in the U.S they have the same as average redneck Joe.
jdis0351
As a combat vet. This is wrong. That is the correct escalation of force, but if a car full of explosives is barreling toward me... No.
YarTheBug
https://youtu.be/02ALe8Oqj7g?t=5m12s
surefire002
Yeah, Iraq vet here, Balad 2011, you don't give warning shots on barreling vehicles. That's a great way to get you and 100 others killed.
CruisinDownTheStreet64
Or if someone points a weapon real or fake you take them down. Your not going to shoot a flare pen at them while they try to kill you
MikeyDoesThings
THANK YOU
Dawnstempest
Now now, just put on your PT belt and it can't hit you.
mijaelo
I swear if they ever remake Armageddon they should have an Airman put a reflective belt around it so it misses
Dawnstempest
Never saw, but I'd like to see a squad of chairforce with reflective belts on just casually stroll through the mayhem and not get a spec of
Dawnstempest
dirt on themselves.
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
Every time you wear a PT belt, a terrorist dies
fettuccine
how would you know a car had explosives? do they usually have a neon sign saying so?
jdis0351
The only way you can tell is if the suspension is riding low. But 100% of the time you don't have a moment to check for that
ThatInfamous12u
There's no reason for a vehicle to be barrelling toward and active us military convoy or troops
fettuccine
i'm at least 69% sure theres more reasons. maybe he has a pregnant wife in the car.
littleman00
I think it's assuming you don't *know* the car is full of explosives.
YarTheBug
https://youtu.be/02ALe8Oqj7g?t=5m12s
WubbaLubbaDubbDub
No... He said explosives
owlest
attention car, announce if you are full of explosives
SilverRazer
"Um....no explosives here."
fullofnerdiness24
"Are you sure?"
d0uble0h
"I JUST WANT A HUG"
devnull791101
how often were you at war in a shirt and trousers with a 9mm?
tehtaxidriver
And a bulletproof vest, not like a good one but like a more comfortable version.
MrSkar
Bullet RESISTANT vest. The military uses NIJ IV SAPI plates which can stop armor piercing rounds. The police wear NIJ II which can stop 1/
MrSkar
/2 up to a 9mm full metal jacket, or factory loaded .357. Couple of shots to the police and the armor ceases to work.
bond100
And also alone. With no air/artillery/armor support on call
jadespider
So if you see someone shouldering an RPG at your position you're going to try to use hand signals to stop him?
soulyouth
or how about walking up to a car you have pulled over, gunna make a hand signal to a thug shooting at you as you get to the window
StarvingGarbage
No, but you've got to be damn sure it's an RPG before you fire. If you end up being wrong you'll probably end up in the brig.
tehtaxidriver
Stomp you feet and say "oh my god, that is sooooo rude. Put that doooown, guysssss it's not nice to use rpgs"
SergeantSalsa
Now you just WANT to get it wrong
coloradostoneman
And i will not complain if the police kill someone pointing an RPG at them
HanShotFirst39
Combat vets that had all those steps also committed massacres of civilians because they were "in the heat of the moment."
asator87
Not as often.
cleverbeans
Citation?
HanShotFirst39
Maybe not as often but they also had higher numbers at their massacres. Haditha was 24. Mukaradeeb was 42. Point is humans make mistakes.
asator87
The real point is, why do cops make as many mistakes as they do?
HanShotFirst39
It's really not that many. The media's disproportionate reporting makes it seem like it happens all the time.
bond100
Yeah as often, the difference is every iraqi and afghani didn't have a camera like we have in the states.
SendMePornAndNudes
the problem is, its not racial. the us police is bad but it kills black and whites in the same rate compared to crimerates. but i don't 1/2
SendMePornAndNudes
think the the military is any better. BLM is a racist and terroristic group that grows like cancer. they don't even try to reason
crankyoldgeezer
We're calling anything a terrorist now?
SendMePornAndNudes
lookup the definition
crankyoldgeezer
2/2 applying that label in today's world is your lame attempt to dismiss them. Luckily fearmongering eventually dissipates.
SendMePornAndNudes
they terrorise society to force it to change, this is literally the definition. just because they are not bombig places dosen't mean they1/2
IronicUsername
The vast majority of BLM participants protest peacefully. A few are extremists. Is Christianity a terrorist organization because [1]
IronicUsername
some Christians bomb abortion clinics? [2]
crankyoldgeezer
1/2 I just think rioters are a more accurate description & to be honest civil disobedience & protests do not seek to creat terror. But your
IronicUsername
This is untrue and, furthermore, it's irrational. The idea that police shootings should be proportionate to crime rates is stupid. [1]
IronicUsername
They don't shoot based on whether you've committed or are committing a crime, they shoot, or they're supposed to anyway, based on [2]
IronicUsername
whether you're an immediate threat. [3]
SendMePornAndNudes
its math, when 10 people attack you and you kill 50% its more then when 5 people attack you and you kill 50%
perseco
Soldiers are trained and drilled from day one to follow orders and procedure. Police take a class, are tested, and then put into the field.
servingmytimeinusersub
My academy was 6 and a half months. This didnt include 3 months on the job training.
DarKalimHero
*In the U.S.A.
lucklesscoin
My biggest problem with all of this is the time and distance you have to react. In combat you have lots of both (1)
lucklesscoin
If they determine that the threat was far enough away, they will ask a why you didn't radio in first before the warning shots, lasers, ect
perseco
Soldiers also have a better command structure and higher penalties for not following protocol/orders.
StarvingGarbage
They need their own version of the ucmj.
tehtaxidriver
Soldiers are trained extensively how to kill, the police don't need that much, some extensive hand to hand would be good.
WhatyoudontknowaboutFUCKMOUNTAINcankillyou
*Any penalties at all
DickDastardly404
This is the most important factor. We need FAR more police than we need soldiers. You'd need a heck of a lot more funding for police to 1/2
DickDastardly404
train them to the same level the US trains it's military. 2/2
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Regarding funding- the figures aren't that clear cut. First, the average training cost (fully inclusive) of the average US marine is ~$38k 1
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
(note that the average cost of training a police officer is roughly ~$20k, though it varies by city). Let's say you wanted to retrain all 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
could certainly help defray the costs. 9/9
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
improved police function (through improved community relations). While it would be a large cost, yes, but expected gains in other areas 8/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
(which already cost $346 million in 2010 alone, excluding court and attorney fees, as well as sealed settlements), lower arrest rates and 7
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
police, and if officers were better trained (especially in deescalation) you should expect to see returns from decreasing civil suits 6/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
into the broader context of police expenditures, however, and it's not quite as daunting. We already spend over $100 billion per year on 5/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
increase of ~$20k per new officer (we're also assuming every full time uniformed officer receives that training). Putting those numbers 4/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
~800k officers in the US in one year. That would come with a hefty price tag of $30 billion. But future training costs would only be a net 3
vipe650r
Yeah, no. Months-long academy, testing, reviews, months of shadowing, monitoring, and a year long probation period, for starters.
schlummi
"Months long" is actually not much. Should probably be years. Every plumber over here has 3.5 years of training, including tests etc.
vipe650r
1/3 You're right. I went through it. It's a job you just have to learn on the beat, under mentorship. You filter like crazy before, pour...
vipe650r
2/3 knowledge into, and then mentor - willing to correct, discipline, fire, and if necessary arrest along the way...
vipe650r
3/4 It is impossible to articulate the difficulty, cost, and complexities of that job. I realized it wasn't for me - even with...
SuperJew12
Even the FBI (considered the worlds premier LE agency) has a 5 - 6 month long training academy.
schlummi
Honestly: do as you like. I'm not a US citizen. But I wouldn't let someone do a responsible job with a few month of training.
schlummi
But then people should not be complaining about police officers doing mistakes. Let a apprentice do the job, get apprentice results.
SuperJew12
Yet, law enforcement and intelligence agencies around the world come here for training.....
stusauce
You are certainly making light of the "take a class" portion. It is a months long academy, similar to the months long basic training/boot.
YouWillNotLikeThis
A month of traning? Is that all?
stusauce
Months. Plural. Usually around 6 months, but it varies between departments.
StarvingGarbage
It varies wildly between departments, and even at the hardest ones they don't have yearly recertification. That's how we have obese cops.
myusernameisntfunny
Who'd rather shoot a fleeing perp and do paper work other than chase him down
PatheticBarrel
2 months of Basic, plus 2-24 months of Tech School, depending on job. Plus constant drilling every week. For at least 6 years.
thesolamnus
Months long? I need a 3 year degree to be an engineer but only months to have a gun an authoritah?
d3jake
It's typically a 2 or 4 year degree program. "take a class" is a vast oversimplification. Tells me OP doesn't know what he's talking about.
PiffTheMagicDildo
6 month academy, one year ojt, and a 2 year degree for my department.
elijohud
I agree with this, but I don't understand why this is a Black Lives Matter issue. More whites are killed by cops than blacks.
Doctor0Professor
And more blacks are killed by blacks, yes we cant ignore the problems in law enforcement, but its like an excuse to ignore black violence
elijohud
Bearing in mind that blacks represent only 12% of the General population, yet are responsible for 70% of all violent crimes, might help
elijohud
Explain some of the disproportionately in their involvement with police violence. I fully agree that our law enforcement needs far better
elijohud
And far more training, but this isn't a BLM issue. It's an issue relevant and applicable to American society in general. Stop turning every
elijohud
Event into a hate crime.
elijohud
And if your only rebut to this is a downvote, you should reconsider who you are as a person.
merekson
SHHH people don't like to hear the truth.
gamblingpoet
No, people don't like to misrepresent facts. Yes, more white people get shot because there are more white people in the US than blacks.
TheSqeeek
Thank you. Everyone on here thinking they're a statistician or forming opinions based on headlines they saw on facebook once.
thesixthcourier
Since the population ratio of whites to blacks in the US isn't close to the same, looking at the raw numbers isn't sufficient analysis.
Morrigi
The number of crimes committed isn't close to the same either.
thesixthcourier
Yeah, having a significantly higher % of a demographic impacted by cyclical poverty will do that.
somenooblikeyou
Tru, however in relation to the number of arrests for each group, whites are shot far more often.
thesixthcourier
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
gamblingpoet
In 2015, Cops killed 50 unarmed whites and 50 unarmed blacks. The white population is 5X larger than the black population. Now doesn't (1)
gamblingpoet
show unarmed blacks are more likely to be killed by cops than unarmed whites? Do you understand at all how this is upsetting to some people?
elijohud
The disproportionality is contested by no one, but if we're talking about law enforcements use of force, in general, than it applies to all.
Doctor0Professor
And how many blacks killed blacks in that same year? A lot more, I'd wager.
gamblingpoet
Do you honestly think blacks are ignoring that? Do you live in a major city? Do you not see community leaders trying to stop it?
Doctor0Professor
Not saying there's no problem in law enforcement, but seems a lot more attention is given to police than more prevalent issues
gamblingpoet
Do you not see community leaders working with gangs and people and churches to try and curb the violence? It happens everyday. EVERYDAY.
PrincessWordplay
Well, we don't train our law enforcement agents the same way we train our soldiers. We certainly ought to, but we don't.
HerrBisch
If you're gonna give 'em all guns you definitely ought to!
newsguycraigevans
This is what confuses me. So many people are ok with police officers that use "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality. Why?
WubbaLubbaDubbDub
We "ought" to but that means taxes. And Americans hate taxes more than emails.
s13bro
you don't think the taxes we already pay cant be re-allocated to different resources? come on..
MinimalMax
Sounds ridiculous if you ask me.
swatdattwat
Agreed.
usernamerelevantsoon
As vet I've been a firm believer- if your going to militarize the police: then properly train them like the military
r0b0tc0rpse
No, you don't want police trained like soldiers, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
MrtheOffender
http://imgur.com/Yae6eIP
StarvingGarbage
What really makes no sense is that we hold police to a lower standard. They need their own version if the ucmj.
kasaku
We shouldn't train them the same, but we should train them as thoroughly.
someguyfromnowhereclose
Agreed, training should be different to reflect their specific mission. But no less thorough.
Tom40
Should be held to a higher standard even.
Koshunae
An officer should be held to a much higher moral and ethical standard than soldiers, at the absolute minimum.
someguyfromnowhereclose
That's troops and law enforcement should be held to the same standard of morality and ethics. As a former service member my unit was held to
someguyfromnowhereclose
The highest standards of conduct. We were expected to act at all times as though we are representing our country, because we were.
Toderdj
Yes most definitely.
Silliosophical
There are soldiers that come back & serve in law enforcement today. I want to know what they think. Anyone fit this? Honestly want to know
zozororo
I was a cop before i was a vet. Same training, you are allowed to skip escalation levels depending on what you're met with. No cop or 1/2
zozororo
Soldier will wave their fucking hands while being shot at because that's the first step of escalation of force. Lunacy
jaminjimmyjames
Stephen Mader fit that bill.
sinbios
How does the US have both a veteran unemployment problem and an undertrained police force problem? You'd think the transition would be easy.
tantricpooper
No. Soldiers are surrounded by threats. Police are surrounded by the people they are sworn to protect.
slack3rdav3
Hold still, let me protect you! feel the bullets protecting your insides?
tantricpooper
STOP RESISTING MY PROTECTION!
JimWest
And also people they have to protect that are also threats; let's not forget that.
IstoppedlikingmyusernameSoIchangedIt
Then how come every media outlet talks about militarization of police? Are they just handing them military weapons without the training?
tehtaxidriver
The gov't forced the vehicles onto police departments so the dept. has to maintain it and deal with the PR nightmare.
RoyBattysDove
Yes.
filthytank
The us military has a thing where they sell assloads of military surplus, weapons, vehicles, &etc. To law enforcement, so yea basically
thisismymainaccount
Yeah they actually are, where im from (canada) cops are required to practice gun firing once a year, not more. Guess what problem this cause
BattloidKouji
You really don't want to know the answer to that.
gebsmith1
Your first mistake was to believe what the media tells you
ZombieEinstein
Pretty much, yeah.
blunte
Military gear, civilian training.
undungubungu
There's a huge stockpile of military weapons and equipment leftover from Iraq and Afghanistan, that was sold to the police dep.
locknut8
Yes
OlMuskyTheMartian
That's correct. They get new toys and start feeling restless.
tehtaxidriver
The vehicles should have been sold to the private sector.
loantiburon
The military practically gives it away sometimes when they have a surplus just to make room, so yeah, basically.
jsnforce
Yes.
Emilbee
Yes
VoPo
That's basically exactly what's going on, yes.
nomad546
Militarization can just be equipping them with military gear. I suppose it's a partial militarization of you wanna get technical.
Occasionalfunnycomment
Yes but with that gear comes with mentality and looking for an excuse to use it.
DankS0uls
ravnicrasol
Well, US court declared it's OK for the police not to hire someone for being too smart, so...
pgdave
Intelligence isn't a protected class.
ravnicrasol
It's not a class, but it's a bit worrying they placed a "Your IQ must be lower than this to pass" sign.
pgdave
Oh I agree, but the government shouldn't dictate all hiring practices, even if they're noticeably dumb.
justino37
Can I get a source on that, por favor? I'd like to share that w/others.
ravnicrasol
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/court-police-departments-refuse-hire-smart/ first one I found
PrincessWordplay
Judging by the way my local police test drive their ex-army armoured tactical vehicle once a month and always look clueless, yes.
tehtaxidriver
Well, once a month to make sure it still operates. If it sits too long it's more costly to maintain.
PrincessWordplay
I know WHY they do it. It's the fact that after years of owning it they still struggle with how to operate it.
chopper35
my town has one of those for their swat team. i live in a town of 50k people
Schriberman
10k people here. We got one. Don't know why.
asampsonfallsintheforest
They get them for really cheap and becasue they are "cool and a good deal". Just like children want cool toys.
SendMePornAndNudes
try to see it from there position, every crazy person could have a gun and you can't do anything about it
JudgeMentalCat
And yet no one attempts deescalation. A cop was fired recently for deescalating a situation instead of firing on a suicidal man.
SendMePornAndNudes
yeah, i just adresed one part of the problem
RamblinRedRooster
Source? I'm interested in the story.
jaminjimmyjames
Stephen Mader. It was just last week I think.
JudgeMentalCat
It's stupid. Cops are hired not to murder the populace, but to do the fuckin job. They're not doing their jobs by murdering people
SuperJew12
He was fired for not dealing with the threat appropriately. Had that suicidal mans gun been loaded, the officer might be dead.
JudgeMentalCat
So he was fired for not killing a man and instead resolving the situation peacefully and getting the guy some help? Sounds like policy sucks
SuperJew12
You have to deal with the threat at hand. If I had been in the same situation, I probably would have dropped the dude.
ProblemIsGuy
I don't see the point of contention here. If you pull out a weapon on a police officer without going through the process on his terms why is
ProblemIsGuy
the police officer to blame if he shoots you? The post makes it sound as if the police don't have processes of dealing with potentially
ProblemIsGuy
armed suspects when they do.
JudgeMentalCat
I believe the issue is that the "I was scared" argument is used when the person in question was clearly unarmed/helpless
Barnicals
But so many are unarmed? And there is so much footage? And they shoot to kill, not disable?
DrYoloMcSwagmasterIIIEsq
Shooting to maim is illegal in 99% of cases
Barnicals
Phew. Just as well they're only killing then.
TinyRocktopus
It's difficult to shoot to disable and that makes it more complicated "I didn't mean to kill him I just missed his leg" "ok no problem then"
Barnicals
Mmm, there is that.
SquirrellyWhirly
*IF* you pull a weapon. There are a lot of cases where the person is unarmed. We're talking about those cases.
SomeOldDude
"Unarmed" ≠"not a deadly threat"
AVoiceOfReason
How many?
ProblemIsGuy
'A lot' is here ised liverally. The statistics do not support the suggestion that police violence on unarmed people is a common occurence.
ProblemIsGuy
*used liberally, lol
ghsdkgb
Problem isn't whether this is the majority, problem is that this happens at all and is rarely punished, and often defended.
Sithrak
1/2 Do you have a concept of 324 million? Maybe, maybe a hundred die unarmed to police. Maybe, maybe 5 of those aren't properly punished.
Sithrak
2/2 I agree that's too many, and it's worth working on. It is NOT worth rioting, closing down towns, businesses and acting like 5 year olds.
hEEbtHejEWish
Can confirm as combat vet. That's why im always surprised that they kill unarmed people so often.
herrau
Well man.. In the heat of the moment...
LogosCosmosAtomos
Same here. Poor training and discipline in my opinion. I'm a former Marine, so 'warning shots' weren't allowed, but other escalations were.
RickFlist
Not sure why you are getting downvote for your side of the story. Millennials are cunts.
damspam
Where did millenials come from? There are Millenials who are marines...
RickFlist
It's just one of the few statements that fit in any situation. "How's the weather?" "millenials are cunts" "true dat" *high five*
Krispyplz
ikr lol wtf
C1138
Combat vet here. Cops have far more training than military do for these things. This is a gross oversimplification of the matter, 1/2
C1138
and with all the ROE in the world US and coalition troops have killed a hell of alot of civilians.
MajorLeagueFister
I've been preaching for years that the training for police is woefully inaccurate. It might even be in my comments if you dig deep.
HanShotFirst39
Yeah, military never made mistakes and killed unarmed civilians. Haditha, Mahmudiya, Mukaradeeb to name a few. Humans make mistakes.
newsguycraigevans
Sept. 19 in Tulsa. Unarmed man had his hands up. Killed by police.
Belatorius
Two cops beating the shit out of you, instincts says to protect yourself. Then bam, they're in the right says the law.
causality
Doesn't matter how many people police kill. It matters that the obvious murders go unpunished.
LiveWithHonorDieWithGlory
As a vet of Tom Clancy's Division I can also confirm.
PapaTimDankopus
@OP Honestly I don't know if it makes me pissier that this happens or people get arrested and when they merely ask why it's because
PapaTimDankopus
@OP (2) "You're resisting arrest"
CarpeMofo
Do you think hiring more veterans as cops and trainers would help? Or would there be to much of an issue with PTSD and stuff?
DeathAnGravity
PTSD is a individualized thing. Combat experience can translate well into police work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WeJ4EHVrUE
Thoraxe123
Its such a simple solution too, if they just train them under the same (or similar) protocols as the vet, there would be far less killings
GerhardRammelhausen
Well, 5.56(?) does different things to legs than 9mm
SpartanSamuel
I think it's weird that not equipping the police force like soldiers is a popular opinion as is then comparing the regulations of the two.
SpartanSamuel
It's hypocritical to expect one to perform like the other when funding, equipping, and regulating them are entirely different.
SpartanSamuel
Not to mention their missions. They're two entities that should never be held to the standards of the other.
xXShadowWarriorXx
Because the ones that don't are dead
hotfezz
Bullshit.
IronicUsername
Out of about 1 million LEOs with arrest powers, 130 officers died in the line of duty in 2015. Most by vehicle accident or natural causes.
IronicUsername
39 were killed by intentional gunfire. The conditions of most of these shooting were such that the officers had no opportunity to
IronicUsername
shoot first (such as ambush kills).
SnowNinja93
Can confirm. All UK officers are dead. Send help.
HorseMcFucker
The police that do not kill unarmed people are dead? Gee, thanks.
somewhatwiseguy
Well I mean shoot first ask questions one clip later seems to be effective at keeping the shooter alive regardless of a real threat
HitlersClonedButthole
Same here, I don't talk much about deployment but I don't see how escalation of force is "turn around or get shot"
HitlersClonedButthole
NOT SAYING ALL COPS ARE BAD! But media won't report good ones cause that won't get ratings.
issuenotachoo
there was actually just a report of a young ex-marine who joined the police force and was fired for 'putting other officers in danger' 1/
issuenotachoo
while he was trying to calmly talk to a man who was suicidal, other cops arrived on the scene, and killed the man. it's almost like the 2/
issuenotachoo
while he was trying to calmly talk to a man who was suicidal, other cops arrived on the scene, and killed the man. it's almost like the 2/
issuenotachoo
police have forgotten what their job actually is and think they have a license to kill whenever they feel the need.
idownvotekittens
It's also because in the military, there's usually a lot more space between you and the threat. Police have much closer interactions, so 1/2
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
Military police, training on how to be a cop for trained soldiers in close environment still has EoF and RoE standards.
idownvotekittens
2/2 there's a lot less time to run through a bunch of steps before they can defend themselves if they feel threatened.
Sandyundertones
Yep, and that's why every industrialized country has such a high rate of extra judicial killings by police. Wait, it is just the US?!?
Somnophobe
A city's a city, wether it be Baghdad or Baltimore... urban combat really doesn't allow for much standoff space.
turtlechowder
And in what case were marines responding to domestic violence calls in the slums of Baghdad. Military and policing are ENTIRELY different.
Somnophobe
Army were doing all sorts of things, and why would it matter why they were out there? Doesn't change the amount of space or time to react.
Thellluminati
I can go from my shoulder holster to a fairly accurate shot quick. If I'm in a situation where someone might have a gun, I tell them not to1
Thellluminati
Not to reach anywhere and keep their hands visible, and they reach to where a gun should be. No way should I be expected to wait and see2
Thellluminati
What comes out.. Neither should police. There isn't time to give warning shots, to deescalate, to whatever. If it's an uneasy situation3
Thellluminati
And a cop explicitly tells you to keep your hands visibly DO IT. don't reach for your license, for chapstick, baby pictures.. Whatever...4
Thellluminati
Just follow commands in the heat of the moment. If they violate you, Sue and get the cop fired, if you didn't do anything wrong, fight it5
Thellluminati
**where a gun could be**
livingwhosdream
Cops also don't have the same level of training as armed military do.
anamolhouse
Well. Why dont they? Both are professionals. In fact the average career of a cop is a lot longer than a soldier
EpicDiaBadAss
1. My brother was a Kentucky state trooper and went through 6 months of police academy. Last I checked Marines are 3 months boot camp.
EpicDiaBadAss
2. Three states have"elite" state police. Kentucky, Texas, and Alaska. Kentucky specifically has to because counties don't have the money to
EpicDiaBadAss
3. Train properly. He was more concerned about the sheriff behind him shooting him in the back than the crazy Mt man pumped full of meth and
shodrane
They should since they roll around with live ammo and are supposed to "protect and serve"
vipe650r
They have more than your average military does (I've done both), and also a completely different set of job circumstances.
KillerTofu615
... I'd say its comparable physically. What they don't have is the psychological training.
fistermatic5000
I don't see how it's even physically comparable. When I was in I was fucking captain America. No way the average cop was in that kind of
KillerTofu615
When I was in I definitely wasn't Capt America but I was in good shape.
fistermatic5000
But cmon you had to be in better shape than the average cop. Even the ones in great shape work out on their own time.
Schmedes
Well I'd assume Steve Rogers would only fuck the beefiest so you're probably telling the truth.
fistermatic5000
Listen here you little shit
justino37
I have never seen a soldier with a John Candy physique.
ickaickaickaptchanggggg
Then maybe they shouldn't be given access to the same weaponry. We don't need cops with tanks, yet we have them
agrimomen
THANK YOU
CatIsFineToo
Not a tank, but not your ordinary cop car either.
boomer0001
Not anymore. DoD forced return of all military grade armored vehicles last year.
BeerMakesMePrettier
Name one police department in this country that has a tank. Go on, I'll wait
alexbackinaction
No tank but the Nebraska state patrol has 3 "light armored vehicles" 8 wheel drive armored troop carrier is close enough for me...
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
SWAT teams use them for safety during hostage situations
damspam
Maybe not tanks, but the point still stands that military surplus goes to police that aren't properly trained to use them.
BeerMakesMePrettier
Where is the evidence that they aren't properly trained to use them?
boomer0001
None now because the Feds forced departments with heavily armored vehicles to return them to the DoD last year.
MrBlakeMeister
They never had tanks.
kebertxelaturdferguson
As an Arizona native, it didn't take me long to find an answer to your question. http://imgur.com/kzugtNz Freakin Local mad man Joe Arpaio.
BeerMakesMePrettier
Well fuck. Should've guessed he had one. Since he is a fucking cartoon, does it count? Haha
Morrigi
I'm fairly sure that's a self-propelled howitzer, not a tank.
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
That's for show, not an actual vehicle to use
PonyMadness
We never hear about the cops who stop them without killing them so there's nothing to contrast this to.
PrinceSatisfactory
Non-survivorship bias
Pinkwhistle
We just did. He lost his job.
damspam
We dont need to, that should be par the course. What we do know is that american cops kill more people than cops in other advanced countries
TheNostraThomas
We don't need to contrast it with anything, it's just a problem that needs to be fixed.
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
Yes, but the shooting of unarmed people is actually extremely rare. It's just every single one (justified or not) is on the news for weeks.
MrOni
No, it's really not.
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
Yes it is, and they report every single one. Or the person will have turned out to be armed, but people assume stuff, I.e. Charlotte
Fishticuffs
It should be. It's a big mistake. The hate should stop, but it should be something we pay a lot of attention to.
JohnathanJacobJinglySchmidt
I completely agree. I think people force race into the issue too much. I think if you want an underlying cause, its Socioeconomic status
issuenotachoo
omfg, seriously? obviously not. that's their job. the reason we hear about the murders is because that's NOT their job. 'contrast', wtf..
iKnowMostlyRandomFacts
I think contrast is important. If 1/ 20,000 stops someone dies, thats horrible. But if its 1/2,000,000 then it's not an epidemic
issuenotachoo
did you read the post? even the military thinks the police are trigger happy. it's very much an epidemic - of cops killing black people
iKnowMostlyRandomFacts
But to answer your question, I did read the post and the FB OP didn't mention race one time.only the twitter hashtag did. It applies to all
iKnowMostlyRandomFacts
One, it's a military person. Not the military. Two, if you think the problem is about race you are following the media and not statistics
iKnowMostlyRandomFacts
Mainstream TV Media literally propogates fear, anger and hatred because drama sells and gets people to tune in. Go look up stats. Trust me
iKnowMostlyRandomFacts
Cops kill more whites than blacks. The issue is cops need to stop using lethal force on all. The media is only reporting blacks for revenue.