IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
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Time to move past the 7th century.
Mid flame war edit: In no way am I talking about violence, one way or another. This is about cultural and religious reformation for the purpose of preserving a system of belief, not eradicating it. Islam needs to take a deep look inward and evaluate what practices they accept and condone. This isn't about terrorism or US policies or how bad non-Muslim terrorists are (how did this conversation go there?.)
getadogupya
They need a new prophet to turn up with an update.
Riptide00
We could all use a bit more introspection. "Know thyself."
1mshadowbanned
Or maybe the US could stop attacking countries that aren't at war with and funding to terrorists.
adrizen
I don't know how this is unpopular. Except to Islamist extremists. And who gives a fuck about them?
BangerFox
Not really unpopular I don't think
angelsichor
All other religions are fine though.
BangerFox
To be fair there are plenty of religions that have adapted to modern life and even embraced modern ideals like gays and trans
lazygrinder
I think we should have a minimum age for religious teaching. Religion would likely disappear within 2 generations.
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Regulating thought and what a parent can teach their child is tantamount to though-crime. Morality of enforcement? How to enforce?
ZyklonBDemille
Yessss... let's add more division.
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Reform and cultural modernization could save Islam from the ash heap of history. I have only their best interest in mind.
ZyklonBDemille
I strongly suspect the intended irony of my comment was lost in the delivery...
garrett53
Fistouille
American Christianity is not really farther ahead
harambeDIEDforOURsins
Protesting out front of abortion clinics and screaming death to queers is pretty close to suicide bombings. You're right.
adjacentmountain
They did then american christians bombed the crap out of them "becuz socialism" back when they were training and funding osama bin laden
Biteymcbiteface
You do know that one of the only reasons that socrates teachings survived the Christian dark ages is because of muslims right?
2shy4you
Ive never understood picking and choosing what to believe in a religion, god says if you're gay you're evil, but you say nah, god is good...
cheekypocketwank
you know what they say about homophobes who protest too much.... He couldn't even put a chapter about Mary getting fucked in his novel.
Evilwall
It's because humans get to decide what God is or is not.
2shy4you
MalcomReynoldsWrap
"But the Bible says homosexuality is WRONG!" -Guy eating oysters and wearing polyester
upvotehypnotoad
Tha fuck? Gonna burn in fucking hell for wearing that shit eating oysters
lazygrinder
Like the guy with the Leviticus tattoo
LondonViking
Didn't they already have one? is this not how Shia came about from wahabinism? or Jifadi from wahabinism? (google these terms, it enlights)
MrSebu
No there are different sects but sunni islam is the most literal
TracyAllenParks
countries should stop bombing other countries for their natural resources.
TheGhostofElizabethShue
I'm sure that'll calm things right down.
upvotehypnotoad
You mean a "disbanding"
ThePatriarchyMadeMeDoIt
There is only one solution @OP.
getadogupya
OdeToBouncer
Soooo... good luck discussing religion with a random group of strangers on the internet. Valid or not, your points: http://imgur.com/QcjBG3q
SterlingArcherSecretAgent
It'd probably be easier to get rid of these religions completely.
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Slippery slope, friend. How would you go about that?
SterlingArcherSecretAgent
I don't know. Banning them seems like a bad idea.
PandraPierva
Whole sale murder. None of that half baked shit. No sticking em in ovens either. That didn't work.
SterlingArcherSecretAgent
No, that will only create grudges and reasons for revenge. It will just turn all survivors and their family into extremists.
PandraPierva
Kill them all. If there's no people there's no religion
SterlingArcherSecretAgent
It's been tried. It won't work. It'll just make everything worse. Not to mention that killing people is bad.
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
Islam is currently undergoing reformation. Since there's no equivalent of a pope, no one group can speak for the whole so there are...
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
PS: how did you get that user name? Can I please imagine you are actually Trump? I've got some words for you, sir.
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
If it makes you feel better then go ahead haha
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
competing ideas at play. Some are shit and some have promise. The best western countries can do is to not contribute to the instability...
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
that gives violent ideologies credibility.
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
I think it's more of a crossroads than a reformation. Shia, Sunni, Wahabist... these are established doctrines. The have singular dogmas.
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
Islam is at a unique point in history. For centuries, the Ottoman Empire was among the most advanced civilization on Earth. Now, Muslim...
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
countries are among the least powerful. This has given rise to the fundamentalists who believe that the golden age for Islam can be found...
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
in past practices (often idealized rather than historical) and simultaneously to those who wish to bring Islam in line with modernity and...
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
the new realities that it represents. Also, Sunni and Shi'a are far from singular. They are quite subdivided, Wahabiyya is actually one such
Turrible
1) I love how everyone on the Internet is suddenly an Islamic scholar. Islam is evolving and continues to do so.
Turrible
2) The problem Islamic reforms face is that most are operating under totalitarian govts that kill/torture those that threaten the regime.
Turrible
3) The other problem is Islamists doing the same. They deem reformers apostates and send their thugs to chop them up.
Turrible
4. So it's a process, and not an easy one. If you want to know more I could suggest further reading...But thanks for humoring me.
dEdGrimley
Religion in general needs to go away.
DamnumAbsqueInjuria
Not likely within any of our lifetimes. Religion, in some form or another, has existed for tens of thousands of years.
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upvotehypnotoad
Found the terrorist
Azraelgargoyle
Amen!
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
You can't stamp it out. That's immoral and impractical. Rationality and reform of imaginary beliefs have to begin from within a community.
dEdGrimley
No one said stamp it out. I said it needs to go away. Like it has been most places where rational thinking is normal.
time4thyme
True. Although religion tends to support a lot of negative ways of thinking. Not always, as I've met many beautiful religious folks.
time4thyme
I get what you're saying though
raiy0
Exactly they need to spark the change.
theirishinquisition
Sorry but, where does immorality come into it? If you are an atheist immorality is merely a social construct built from experience(Locke)1/2
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
"Go away." Passive. I agree. "Be put away." Active. Here is where we meet repression. I can't support that.
theirishinquisition
There is no objective Natural Law as C.S Lewis would have it. No basis in which morals have their foundation. Other than societal/chemical
theirishinquisition
And in the end, depending on whether we take Camus advice, even rationality fails us. And descends into the realm of poetry & irrationalism
yikesaroni
i agree, and the christian right also need a reformation too, look at who they just elected, the Two Corinthians guy who is unconstitutional
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Totally understandable view. I only mean that when a bomb blows up in a population center, no one thinks, "that was probably a Trump voter."
yikesaroni
remember, the people who did this: /a/zXa5S,
were far-right religious conservatives
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Fringe crazies are a far cry from those who act with the implicit approval of a significant percentage of the followers of a world religion.
yikesaroni
right right, keep turning a blind eye / benefit of the doubt to your own kind, that lack of introspection will do wonders for your worldview
yikesaroni
when a mosque gets shot up, when a black church gets shot up, when a sikh temple gets shot up, when a federal building gets taken over
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Ignorance, racism, and violence are a problem in the US. They are not a systemic pattern that originates from a centralized worldview.
yikesaroni
but a belief in religious law DOES factor into it, a portion of these right-wing terrorists are christian identity who WANT divine law
IDidntSeeMyLifeLikeThisIDontKnowHowToGetOut
Compare raw numbers and percentages of far-right crazies to implicit supporters of Islamist violence and the number of murders carried out.