teamnice
101738
1847
83
I am glad to revisit this notion. I will bike more.
Feb 27, 2024 1:38 AM
teamnice
101738
1847
83
I am glad to revisit this notion. I will bike more.
LincolnFox
I'd love to bike to work but I don't trust people in cars
Jaggededges113
Dude I bike and buy drugs. Yay drugs.
PenguinNamedWobbles
People who ride bikes often still eat take out food, drink beer and do drugs. You think bike riders don't smoke weed? They also need doctors, cardiologists and dentists. Riding 5-10 miles on a bike daily doesn't prevent all artery plaque from forming or create some kind of magic perfect teeth charm.
gaggedandgooped
Assuming healthy people don’t buy dr.u.gs is hilarious.
Boom9001
I know it's a joke but there are people that genuinely think in this vein, when talking about X is going to kill Y industry (and implying that's bad for the economy). The reason that doesn't hurt the economy is simple, people will still spend their money it'll just be on something else. Hence the economy is always fine, just unnecessary industries die.
popeyeNL
Healthy people will be good for the economy, not bad. Nice meme, but not correct.
easton99
Oh I cycle and do drugs, 100%!
blaghart
also this isn't true. Cyclists create lots of hospital jobs from RSIs and concussions when they fall off bikes. My dad got really lucky, he had a bad bike accident, ended up with a serious concussion (literally doesn't even remember how it happened) and someone found him frustrated and unable to recall why, wandering like an alzheimer's patient on a street corner. They got him to a hospital and kept him safe in the process.
RaithiosDarksun
My rebuttal:: then adapt for both types.
Build bike friendly roads,help car repair stores build a bike repair store.(hate this suggest) add air refuelings that charge a few cents to pump up tires.the Ebike is slowly becoming more affordable,how about charging statioms for those long bike weekends
Cyclist and walkers arent failing the economy,the economy is failing and refusing to adapt.
spontaneous9
The decal on my chainstay reads, "My other car is a canoe."
11Weasel11
Mine says, "Flying Brick Club".
TypicalWhiteGuy1
Mine says "Go F--- Yourself"
HotSauceNCereal
As a normal person, the only time I ever had to deal w cops (aside from my teenage years) was because of driving. I also now live so close to work, 3 min bike ride, 10 min walk. My days are mine. So much happier.
DarthRastus
We became a one car family about 6 months ago the kids and I ride to school and work everyday, while@my wife uses the car for her work and it’s good for those things you just need a car for. I sold our other car when I looked in the mirror and didn’t recognise the guy that used to race mountain bikes. I’ve lost 10kg since and have my first race in 13 years this Saturday. Wish me luck, I’m just hoping for a dignified finish for now!
5tradivariuS
I went from driving 10km to work by car and always stressing about the traffic to only going by bike. Best decision ever, never looked back, less stress during commuting and grew an ass like a dump truck 🍑
teamnice
I just rode my bike to a doctor’s office 2.5 miles away that I normally drive to. It crosses a v v v shady area and that’s put me off from riding. However today I said fuck it and here I am in one piece. I have time on the back end to take the long way home.
autodidacticcortex
I think about this whenever managers start pushing to return to the office.
kirmokum
"Cycling infrastructure has been shown to pay back to society more than it costs – a 2014 UK government report cited returns of between 2:1 and 35:1. Other countries demonstrate returns of 10 times or higher, and London's transport authority reports ratios of 20:1 for cycling investment."
simonsaysabunchofstuff
I have it on good authority that some cyclists do indeed take drugs
OliverOtter
Obesity is actually good for the economy. It's just not good for people. All it does is move your end-of-life medical problems earlier. If you die in your 40s or 50s, no money is wasted on giving you a comfortable retirement for decades, and no money is wasted on your mundane health problems and accidents between your 50s and 80s either. And you get the same expensive fatal heart attack, just early instead of in your 80s. Smoking too, but replace heart attacks with heart attacks and cancer.
bikergeek6249
Back in the '90s some Eastern European country did a study that said that smokers were a net win for the government because they paid cigarette taxes their entire lives but died before they could collect very much of their old age pension. End-of-life medical care cost the same regardless of whether the person was 60 or 80. Of course this is a country with a proper state-paid OAP and state-paid health care, numbers would likely be very different in the USA.
OliverOtter
Quite true. There were similar studies in the US. The Clinton administration had to pressure the WHO to change the definition of "addictive" in order to call cigarettes addictive, because the then-current definition took into account the economic effects and found them to be habit-forming but not addictive. They weren't economically detrimental (even the worst outcome was quick, generally untreatable back then, and cheap), and as a mild stimulant didn't inhibit job performance or hireability.
Strategicgnomer
It's a strange thing this idea of capitalism. It's not as though we need to do those things to make the world work. In fact, we could do a lot more if we didn't do those things. It's not like making things creates more food and housing. Well, unless those things are tractors and other tools for making stuff. So what does it produce? More upperclass people. That's it. It creates demand for products that aren't necessary so that more people can steal other's labor. And that's the economy. It's
Strategicgnomer
another word for "enslavement machine". Because we can change it's definition, say that the economy is "people with nice housing and good supply of food". And that? Well now, THAT economy has TANKED.
Spidey209
The money not spent on fuel doesn't just disappear. It goes somewhere. Spandex bike shorts normally.
TrippyTurtle69
I agree with most of these points. However, you most certainly can be obese and ride a bike to work and even as a hobby. Source an old coworker, complete douche, religiously rode a bike to work, and as a hobby. Like we're talking road races in Colorado. Very much over weight, very much obese.
solrev
I recommend adding a fluffy white cat to the front. Like Sigrid.
celestedrake
I would take any cat. They are all good cats.
wadatahmydamie
I love cats. They are not all good, and that’s okay
celestedrake
Just need arbitrary and/or pedantic definition of good. They are good at catting. Thus they are good cats. Good-cats rather than good + cats.
solrev
I forgot their tag. But sigrid is on here. Highly recommended. She hisses at dogs. It’s great.
celestedrake
She is. She is also do into their bile rodes. Snd lets people pet her if there are no dogs iirc.
joble
Wow, in this way Nordic more socialistic countries rock, because we state own that kind of businesses like healthcare so it wouldn't be used as capitalists benefits. So it's in countries benefit that citizens are healthy, so don't need to use so much tax base for this. It's also funny how that flips, first if it's state owned the business needs money, if it's private owned it makes money... obviously the charges get higher in the second scenario. Same applies in many sectors as energy sector.
meekodeeko
Cyclists emit more CO2 than car drivers due to increased respiration according to WA state legislator https://grist.org/cities/wa-state-legislator-doesnt-understand-co2-transportation-science/ 🙄
icanseethefnords
https://www.laks.agency/pics/stupid.mp4
5tradivariuS
Damn haha, at least he turned around. Te wildest take I heard someone say was 'buh if cyclists ate only beef steaks, they would emit more becauhse they burn more calories and need more food'
codeacrobat
My bike was given away by a neighbour for free. Works perfectly, btw.
tzahtman
I didn't realize you could only own one means of conveyance.
xETM
As a driver I hate pedestrians, and as a pedestrian I hate drivers, but no matter what the mode of transportation, I always hate cyclists. - Stolen
Cranbananarama
GroundsKeeperWillie.png
Clockworkdancerobot
In more civilized societies, they separate car traffic and have bicycle paths that let people share the space in a much safer manner.
EndocrineResearcher
Maybe if there was actual bike infrastructure it would help (also, cars are far more dangerous both to cars and to pedestrians, cars are the actual menace on the road).
CheeseB0t
That's a lot of assumptions to make about a person for owning a bicycle.
I cycle, own a car. Mind blowing stuff
EasyPeezy2019
3 person household here. With 4 bikes, a kick scooter (for my daughter although I'd like one thinking about it...) A couple decent pairs of walking shoes for all and 2 cars. Transport means is based on where one needs to go with who (or what, hello new cabinet from marketplace). Sunny day, walk or bike. Freezing cold/rain, the car it is.
TheIronPenguin
I missread parts of your comment first; "I cycle on a car". Mind blown indeed!
Autittuderp
That's pretty accurate. Capitalism does not want mentally, physically or emotionally healthy humans . We tend to fuck with their systems.
justfiguredoutimc4azyanddumbb
The proof is in our reality. Slap yourself. Now slap the person next to you. Congratulations you're socializing again.
GuyPilot
Yeah, no, not at all accurate. Capitalism doesn't "want" anything either way. I'm a cyclist - with an economics degree. I save money, like described in the post, then I spend more on.... Wait for it. ... *other* things! You're confusing "Capitalism" with "Republicanism
chloramphenicolderivative
It's not accurate at all. All the money a cyclist doesn't spend on those things, they spend on different things instead. Look up the broken window fallacy. It's basically the same idea, except it doesn't talk to you like you're a five year old.
slayston
No...you like to believe that but mentally, physically and emotionally healthy people ALSO do not fuck with the system because...well what else do they need?
Autittuderp
They don't *need* most stuff being sold to them. The things they do require have been profit over peopled. The systems are not built for them- they are built ON them.
BrockEffingSamson
People being sick and dying is actually bad for the economy. Do you know a business that is excited about its employees calling in sick? Do you know a business that has tried to encourage its employees to be healthy?
Autittuderp
Oof. *missed point*
BrockEffingSamson
Sure didn't. Just don't agree with it.
JustBoone
I should get a bike, I don't live that far from work. Only problem is I work nights so I'd be riding in the dark often and people round here have literally killed bicycle riders with the way they drive.
HeWhoMustNotBeBlamed
If only somebody would invent a safe infrastructure for bicycles. You know, something like a dedicated ‘bike path’, that actually goes from near to where you are to near where you want to be. Wouldn’t that be great? It would benefit everybody. Why hasn’t anybody thought of it?
aqueueforyou
That's why I use sidewalks when they're empty, and at night they almost always are
CrimsonLobo
Good light up and reflective gear. LED/Halogen lights on your bike. Lights on your helmet. And cycle as defensively as possible. If you hear loud pipes in the distance, pull in and just wait. Listen to your gut.
Make a name for yourself as that light up night time guy. People will look out for you.
TheArtistFormallyKnownAs
That's a decent idea.
teamnice
Yeah I live in a that’s becoming bike friendly but still need car for practicality. And the danger. ⚠️
Sedentarylifestyle
I live in a bicycle hating city. It's nuts with the malice drivers have toward cycling.
sigmatis
Same happens in bike-friendly cities.
Car drivers just have road-rage, and cyclists are thr perfect candidates for venting.
Clockworkdancerobot
I had to get lights in front, back, oh, and SpokePOVs were fun to use. They're discontinued but I've seen other brands around.
bound4doom
Lights in front and back but there are also lighted pedals, and lights on you bike helmet https://youtu.be/-WKTlsyFo30 Also if your super worried get a motorcycle helmet, at least get a Mountain bike helmet, They are rated for heavier impact. I ride at night, more so in winter time as it get dark by 6.
Waidonut
Get a full body reflective outfit!
mouthfullofpebbles
This is what I and most other daily cyclists wear, at least in winter. Bright reflective vests and leg wraps flapping around in the snow and rain like little Christmas ornaments. Lights are for all year round. (With that said, a lot of the middle aged veiny very professional looking cyclist men with extremely expensive bikes, innovative spandex tights and aerodynamic helmets don't, but they just show up when the weathers agreeable anyway.)
CrimsonLobo
We call those guys MAMILs. Middle Aged Men In Lycra.
Aka Tour de Ponce.
Leathandras
I switched from front and rear lights to front rear and sides, people noticed me front about 60% further away. I would highly recommend.
DestinyPrevails
As a Dane, this sounds so strange. Cyclists and cars don't share spaces except for crossings and intersections, so why would bad drivers put you at risk... and then I start to realise that my experience with dedicated bike paths and underpasses when crossing roads is probably not a widespread thing outside of Denmark and the Netherlands. I can only recommend pressuring your local government to take inspiration from either us or the Dutch, because everyone should be able to bike to work.
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
Yea, the same have hundreds of kilometers of bikepath starting just outside of my house. (Finland)
DestinyPrevails
I'm guessing some of those hundred kilometers are for biking recreationally, and not because Finland has introduced 100km+ social distancing? ;-)
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
Those connect about 1,5 million ppl.. so not the latter one
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
If only it was possible to build own path for cyclists (n pedestrians)...but I guess not in this economy (in the US)
thekeyofe
This is just the Broken Window fallacy.
sabrinadiesatdawn
Came here to say that. It 100% is.
chloramphenicolderivative
Yes, except dumber and smugger
notyoubizness
Explain
Salticido
Basically the idea that when things break, people pay to fix them, and that results in a boost to the economy via increased spending. It completely disregards that that money would be spent on something else anyway. As it relates to the OP, bikers & walkers obviously still spend money, get loans, pay for services, see doctors, etc.
sabrinadiesatdawn
The broken window fallacy says: "it is good that a window got broken because the owner of the window is going to have to pay the widow-repairman to fix it. More money in the economy. Yay!" It's a fallacy because people with money are going to spend that money*. If they spend it on shit they need but don't want (fixing a broken window, or in this example car-related expenses), that is WORSE for the economy than spending it on shit they want, because overall utility is higher.
sabrinadiesatdawn
* The uber-wealthy are exceptions to this. It may in fact be good for the economy to destroy all of Jeff Bezos' stuff to force him to spend to replace it, because that will greatly increase the velocity of his wealth.
valkyriepalmtree
It's kind of the reverse. Chances are the money saved from using a bike is spent in the economy in other ways. Also, I'm pretty healthy and I still buy drugs so yknow
valkyriepalmtree
A lot of people in NYC don't own cars, yet they still seem to be spending money, for example.
Exyr
Some ass hat tried to tell me that because I dont drive I have no right to use public roads as I'm not paying the gas tax that helps build them.
Gibleteousjack
I have to pay an additional $50 a year for tags here because my truck is hybrid. $100 for PHEV, $200 for full electric. Surprised they don't want a $500 yearly tax on bicycles.
rcgom
this is a common refrain fr. people hating on cyclists
Leathandras
Net cost to society for a driver is like 1.40$ per mile, a cyclist is like -0.56$. Turns out the reduced healthcare costs outweigh any road wear and tear by cyclists. It's like 0.01$ if you don't count that part in.
teamnice
Ass hat indeed!!! My wife doesn’t drive - never has - so we’re at least a one car fam.
MCpeepantz
My Grandpa said that buying a car in NYC is the worst financial decision he ever made (apart from a boat), he never used it, paid to park it in a garage, and it was super inconvenient. After moving to WV, cars/trucks became necessary if you dont want to be splattered on the road or actually make it anywhere. The proof of concept is there, just not followed by each area...
MisterBrahanovich
Pretty sure the gas tax was just for the Interstate highways, which bicycles aren’t allowed on.
NZSheeps
They're introducing a Road User tax here for EV's and pluggable hybrids to cover the loss of tax from petrol
KipperFillets
In the UK we pay Vehicle Excise Duty annually, cost depending on how polluting the vehicle is. EV's are currently zero (although you still have to "pay" this zero amount). The government are removing this freebie next year. It doesn't go to road repairs, just a bug general pot.
Petrol is heavily taxed here so they would be losing a lot.
MisterBrahanovich
Pretty sure the gas tax was just for the Interstate highways, which bicycles aren’t allowed on.
iamnoobplzhelp
Pretty sure bicycles cause little to no damage to roads and thus are contributing very little to maintenance needs.
forelle
Also road wear by bicycles is practically zero (in comparison to trucks).
ramol
I had a similar argument once with the driver of the EV car. The difference was that I paid 230£ tax for my car last time, and EV owners don't have to pay tax in the UK. But how dare I ride a pushbike on the public roads?
iguessihaveto
Even if that were the complete big story of public road use and maintenance, people who don't drive generally DO take public transit which also usually uses gas, so... unless you never go further from home than you can get under your own power this guy isn't even right under the terms of his own flawed argument.
beez428
Sounds like someone needs to be kissed with a bike lock
TheBlueMuppet
I have an electric car..they tell me the same thing and now I gotta pay $200 more to register my car as a "fuck you where's my money" tax. Maybe they should take it out of my second alignment charge and fix the fucking roads they charge me for.
graehall
the amount of public space car-brained assholes think that they own which you can not use is wild, amazing entitlement & impatience
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
But they insist that cyclists act entitled because they want more than a strip of paint to protect them from the 2-tonne mechas piloted by any ol' idiot.
freshthrowaway1138
Because we all love citations, here's one that shows that fuel/use taxes only cover half the costs of the roads. Meaning other taxes that everyone pays are covering the costs, so bikes have paid for their impact.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
Rhythmaster
It's actually the fucking opposite, but car drivers have this massive sense of entitlement and victimhood about this... motorists and all the required infrastructure to support our car centric society is actually heavily subsidized by taxpayers, businesses, municipalities and more, giant highways and parking lots cost a huge amount to maintain (and generate very little revenue compared with other uses of that land) and car drivers cannot possibly pay enough to support all of it with gas tax.
Rhythmaster
The other issue is that bikes damage the roads far less than cars and trucks(not at all??) because they're so light, and their footprint is way lighter in terms of accidents as well, if 2 bikes crash into each other, it's far less likely to require hospitalization than if 2 cars or a car and bike crash into each other. It's okay if someone wants to drive a car but they shouldnt pretend that people who choose better, more efficient, less polluting methods are somehow the problem here...
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Tell that cunt to fuck off. Roads are for people.
SirHonytawk
Taxes aren't collected for one particular thing. They are collected and redistributed for everything the government needs to spend money on. So your wage tax is funding roads.
dontrike
The guy that hit me said I shouldn't be on the sidewalk while on my bike. Somehow he knew traffic was in front of him to stop, but knew it cleared while on his phone, but didn't see my 300 pound fat ass in front of him. (Traffic cleared before I got through the drive way of the Walmart he was sitting at.)
Velorex
Someone in a white pickup tried ramming me off the road
DisgruntledFerret
I feel like that's also the kind of person who doesn't want their taxes to pay for public schools because they don't have any kids, too.
Deddead3
I hope more of my taxes go to schools, in no small part for a selfish reason: I don't want to deal with stupid people.
or0b0ur0s
We don't have to worry about that in Pennsylvania. They don't even use the taxes they collect to pay for the roads they're supposed to. They just give it to the State Police (literally sanctioned highway robbers through Civil Asset Forfeiture), instead.
Crazycoke1994
Personally, I think bike lanes should be made, nothing against people who use bikes, just I don't think those who use pedal bikes can reach 25-35 mph safely.
randomdudefromtheinternet
Sounds like a Problem that's too US for me from EU to understand
CanItBeFiredWithAnErection
The only reason roads need repair in the first place is heavy loads going over them and destroying their surface. Most road wear and tear is caused by semi trailers, and not even personal automobiles. You could have 24/7 bicycle traffic on a standard road and it would only need repairs from the weather. You want to know why roman roads lasted forever? They only had horses and carts going over them.
kittyanya
Owners of plug-in electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles must pay a biennial fee of $120, in addition to standard registration fees. Hybrid electric vehicle owners must pay a biennial fee of $60 in SC because they don't buy gas, in which a small tax from that goes towards the roads.
Gaelwyn
People like that are the worst. Everyone has a right to use the roads, they're public roads. The state/locality decides how to pay for the services, nobody needs to be contributing directly to those funds in order to be entitled to use the services. The state could just as easily decide to fund it through income tax or sales tax or property tax, which tax pays for a service is irrelevant to who can use the service. This isn't a fucking country club, it's not members only.
4vie
Not detracting from your point, I'm just reminded of that old tumblr post that made the joke that paying taxes to the country you live in IS a membership fee. You get to be a "member of the country"
skylardarkfox
If you don't own a house, you don't get the benefit of the fire or police departments as you're not paying the property taxes that funds them.
NickRivieraMD
2010: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346
wadatahmydamie
This is the future Libertarians want
Spidey209
fire depts are funded by insurance, at least, they used to be.
nero4ty2
the way fire depts are funded varies pretty widely based on the city/county etc they are part of
MarkWatneysVicodinPotato
The amount I pay to the fire station on my tax bill disagrees....by many hundreds of dollars.
Gaelwyn
Sure, but your landlord is and you pay them the money they use to pay their property taxes.
skylardarkfox
Then we rule out children, the homeless, prisoners, and day-trip tourists, and anyone who just happens to be passing through.
Gaelwyn
I'm not sure what we're ruling them out of, but that's not how a functional society should work. Everyone should get the benefit whether or not they've directly contributed to the thing. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” - Karl Marx
skylardarkfox
Totally agree. I'm just pointing out how absurd the likely defense is. There are certain fundamental benefits of society that should not be pay-to-win.
meekodeeko
this was proven false, as in majority of cases roads cyclists use were paid for by state/county tax not vehicle registration
chloramphenicolderivative
Then where does registration and gas tax go? If they those revenues exceed the costs, then they pretty much paid for it, even if the money went in and out of different accounts.
meekodeeko
follow the comment tree down for more details. but TLDR: cyclists more than pay their way via state taxes etc, even in CA with the highest gas excise in USA which funds 80% of road budget
Targe0
Or they will be a private toll road.
only90skidswillgetthis
Money is by definition fungible, it doesn't really matter or make sense to say one source of tax revenue pays for another expenditure of government.
Audasity
in minnesota, the gasoline tax goes to roads
Exyr
In california where I live the tax on gas is like 1$/gal and it goes to the roads.
agonarch
It's usually a good way of scaling to unreasonably massive cars, they'll need a ton of petrol, so get taxed more, so pay more appropriately for the damage they do to the road. Sometimes they're so heavy even that's not enough to cover it, though (4 wheels at a certain point is just too much load on a surface and it starts to tear it up, which is why trucks often have a mass/wheel relationship on taxes).
meekodeeko
v. quick googling suggests in CA 80% of road infrastructure cost is from gas excise. (i admit that surprises me). though i think you can make a pretty good case bikes do << 80% of the damage cars do to roads
link3000
there are a ton of factors and I can try to dig up the link to the study if you're interested but in general the ratio of the relative road damage between two vehicles is the ratio of their weight to the 5th(!) power
Leathandras
Damage is cubic with weight. Bicycle is about 1/1000 of a car and a car is about 1/1000 of a loaded semi.
Exyr
Plus it's not like I don't pay sales/income tax
meekodeeko
exactly my friend.
FeChefImgur
It varies depending on location. Where I am road costs are paid for about 40% by fuel excise, the rest comes from vehicle registration fees, stamp duty and general sales tax revenue. I think you suggestion that you're probably paying for the portion of the road that you use would be right.
lolzomg123
The vast majority of road wear and tear is from freight trucks, not cars (in total, not just per vehicle). Bicycles are little more than a rounding error.
TorvicEsSanta
I'm no road scientist but this random internet user would not be surprised if wear and tear on a typical road from the use of bicycles over the course of a year is genuinely immeasurable
llortamai
What we need is freight bikes!