AoShin
81672
2630
70
Nov 8, 2020 4:17 PM
AoShin
81672
2630
70
soggywaffle1234
Please don't cut the military, that's not why I voted Biden.
Arcanum3000
Don't forget the huge piles of money being paid to insurance companies for extremely questionable service.
ComoSeIguana
Which episode is this so I can watch it when I get home
sexymanthong
Make congress wear sponsors like nascar
OneGuyWithSixGuns
That's total idiocracy.
OneGuyWithSixGuns
Wow, my reference flew over a few heads.
DontLookAtMeInThatToneOfVoicee
I gotcha ??
Whyureadbro
That huge military budget is literally the only thing keeping the us at the top of the food chain, most people dont like this truth
TheViking333
I feel like our troops don't get to see most of that pile.
hairytrigga
Corporate bailouts are bullshit, next time GM wants money tell em to get fucked. They can restructure with their billions.
PennsylvaniaPalindrome
Dunno-- that loan to Ford turned out pretty well. But I agree w you that "too big to fail" mentality has got to go.
DoorCellar
If something is genuinely too good to fail it should be nationalised.
PennsylvaniaPalindrome
Sorry, big = good? I thought that was a big part of the problem.
originalfloorislava
The war currently costs 250 million per day. That's been the cost for 20 years. Truth is, healthcare isn't important to them
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
Oooh, sorry, we're gonna need to pay defense contractor buddies for equipment and material nobody asked for and they don't want lol
iTakeQuotesOutOfContext
Don’t talk about the Littoral Combat Ship like that. Somebody wants one... right? RIGHT??!!
silentwolf1999
And buy new shit every year, even if we dont need it.
battlepants
"Make sure you spend the entire budget every year, or you won't get as much next year!" - yay bureaucracy...
Shinigami4th
Yeah the best idea i got on this is you get 10% of what you dont spend next year to save money. You spend all but 100k get 10k+ next yr
ToasterDent
1990's my cousin was stationed on a carrier, it left port with new desktop pc's, at sea they just tossed the old ones into the ocean.
hipshopbutcanthap
Never understood contractors on base gates. 29 palms was full of them
Asadsadsadclown
Congress: *throws new tanks into equipment graveyard* Pentagon: Could you stop buying those? Congress:
?1
thanksmonica
Arguably, the US military budget is a social program. It employs millions while reinvesting back into the economy
toonsniped
Find the 30 trillion missing dollars?
TheEvenPrez
We really can't afford to neglect our healthcare system much longer. The army is having a hard time finding valid candidates due to obesity.
TheWarHymn
I guess like Rome, they'll eventually start recruiting foreigners.
sgnight13
THIS
Thephedora
The irony is the tax breaks on the rich alone would be all we need.
TheeDarkAssassin
I love imgurians
Boil1337
Free Healthcare (including vision & dental) & Education (college & trades) for all who cannot afford it, max 40K/year income to be eligible?
AoShin
Cut off points, quotas, means tests, or any other limiting factors inevitably bite public services in the ass. It's better to be universal.
krillin123499
I've heard it said Americans don't have a tax problem but the government has a spending problem
AoShin
A lot of people say they'd have no problem with higher tax, if it went to services, instead of blowing up brown kids (their words, not mine)
Derpmano47
Brother I’m IN the military and I think the budget is way too bloated and everyone looks at me like I’m insane cause “they’re gonna cut 1/2
knuckledraggingmouthbreather
Cant confirm that you're an officer but I'm guessing officer.
Derpmano47
Ur pay. What makes you think ANY OF THAT MONEY goes within a stones toss of us lower enlisted?!?
Astilabor
Because, as with many other organizations, the easiest place to cut spending is in manning. They'll go for easy, not what's correct.
AoShin
Right? Unless 3 million servicemen are making 300k each, that money goes nowhere near them.
breathing
But if we don't have a bloated military presence across the globe, how will people know we're the United States? /s
Krispy038
We pay more in military than the next top 10 countries combined, 7 of which are OUR ALLIES!
Krispy038
To expand. Congress/President is pushing most of our taxes towards our Military Budget/Contractors rather than infrastructure or healthcare.
TheSecondPiewackit
We have the two largest air forces.
CoarseAndSalty
I believe we already have facilities for Congressmen to stay at while serving the Nation.
Raiden777
It's a good thing with the US military budget. If the US doesnt have the biggest military someone will do you want it to be China or Russia?
AoShin
The US could could cut the budget by 70% and still outspend both China and Russia.
bluemagister
The US military budget is dwarfed by the 'social care' budget. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/
bluemagister
US military is 'only' $600B, Medicare/"Health" is $1T. And then SS/unemployment is an additional $1.25T. And there are other categories too.
bluemagister
"We throw so much money at the military!" is a boogeyman. We throw more at other things; US spending / government is simply inefficient.
AoShin
SS and Health are essentials, where as 20 years of constant war in the middle east is not. That's why people say cut the military budget.
bluemagister
And people are stupid. We're already spending so much on healthcare, and where are the results? Throwing more money at it isn't the answer.
bluemagister
Note, I'm not saying it isn't important, obv. But we have massive inefficiencies that need to be addressed rather than "here's *more* money"
SkeletorXD
The problem with the military isn't the budget. Its the waste inherent in the system that was designed to make rich people richer.
SkeletorXD
Any time people talk about cutting the budget. They do what every major corporation does and cut peoples benefits, wages, and jobs.
SkeletorXD
We need reform. Cut the beareaucracy. Stop the price gouging for government contracts.
SkeletorXD
Soooo much waste
AvielMenter
Whatever you think of corporate bailouts, they're not a source of cost savings. They've made the government money.
AoShin
It's the opportunity cost of capital though. Even if it makes interest, there is still better things the government can spend the money on.
AvielMenter
I appreciate this argument, though I'm not sure it holds up empirically. Hasn't our return rate on these investments been pretty decent?
AoShin
Like, imagine If you could invest 100k and earn 20% interest, but then your brother shows up after losing his house gambling, and asks... 1/
AoShin
for a loan of 100k that he'll pay back at 2% interest. You'll earn interest. But it's a loss if you consider the opportunity cost of capital
BelarusianPotatoFarmer
By far the largest pile is social programs. At about two thirds our budget it's huge. And obviously ineffective. It needs the most attention
Lan098
This, my biggest grip with enacting these programs is that what we have all ready is horribly bloated and wasteful
JodavianClazar
Yup. I think we need to fix the old programs that aren't working and wasting money not enact new programs. It's a matter of efficiency. /1
JodavianClazar
Fixing is the answer not replacing.
TongueTiedLabourerfromtheLandoftheLittlePeople
A fair point but remember Clinton reformed welfare and sent a million families into poverty.
TinyOctopus
/a/xedbr6W It's more about 56%. But if we instituted Single payer health care, that would move about 25% of the budget and
BelarusianPotatoFarmer
Social security and Medicare aren't the only social programs. When you add in everything else that benefits citizens directly it's about 66%
BelarusianPotatoFarmer
Further, with those being the two largest portions, they should get the most attention. Like M4A and a more robust social security.
TinyOctopus
Make it more efficient to boot. Coupled with an increase in taxes on the >400k earnings, and much of that would be funded.
sarkonas
To be fair, while the U.S. military spending is insane, I can't imagine who else would counterbalance the likes of Russia and China
AoShin
You could literally cut the US military in half, and still have a bigger budget than Russia and China combined. USA -721.5 billion..... 1/
AoShin
China 178 billion. Russia 65.1 billiion. Together that's 243.1 billion, which is almost 1/3rd of what the US spends.
NobodyExpectsTheSpanishInquistion
China hasn't invaded a foreign country since 1979 (and were supported by the US while doing so) and Russia lacks the long-distance force
NobodyExpectsTheSpanishInquistion
projection to do much beyond their own borders.
SIGMA920
The Russian borders involve Europe's borders. The Chinese are literally making islands in the Pacific larger so they can put bases on them
SIGMA920
and expand how much of the Pacific is Chinese national waters.
NobodyExpectsTheSpanishInquistion
My point with Russia is that they're incapable of being more than a regional power, and China's islands are not the same as invading a
DurendaI
Bu-but muh F-35s!
AoShin
Don't forget 2 billion on a new FBI headquarters in the middle of a pandemic with no stimulus!
t3lemons
Or the Navy's LCS fiascos
iambrose
Isn’t the building in the stimulus plan?
TheSecondPiewackit
I totally hate the F35 in principle, but watching one take off at Peterson AFB gave me half a $1.5 trillion chub.
Getthatbucheinmybelly
I saw two flying over the 15 hwy in San Diego and made small child on Christmas noises
SIGMA920
Why would you hate the F-35 on principle? It's not a fighter by design and we need a better ground attack aircraft than what we have now.
SIGMA920
It'll also be cheaper in the long run because of the unified parts that the F-35's forms will require (Otherwise you'll need to produce
SIGMA920
the parts for up to 5 different aircraft that you're using and that's not considering minor specific differences with an aircraft's type.).
GadenKerensky
I think it is a fighter by design. It's supposed to be multirole. It's quite agile. But mostly, it can carry a lot of AMRAAMs.
GoddamnitClown
Honestly, it's horribly misunderstood by the general public; it's really an incredible project.
TheSecondPiewackit
I helped test it. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.
SIGMA920
I'm going pose a question: Would you rather pay 25 billion a year produce spare parts for 20+ year old aircraft when you need to pay 100
GoddamnitClown
I'll bite. Better spent on what?
2674E6J
Cutting Congress' pay by $50k would save $26 million. While they're in DC give them an E-3 barracks behind the Capitol & VA healthcare.
BritishBenzene
A lot of Congress (especially in the house members) sleep in their offices bc DC rent is high & (spoiler) they aren’t in DC that much.
copperdomebodhi
Wrong move. You're bright and able acheiver. Do you want to make 1mil in the corporate world or 125K getting slandered in politics?
brotherhoodofapprenti
Fuck yes! Remind them they’re public servants not celebrities!!
Ladris
Is that a spitter or a piss bottle? Both.
InvaderTaco
As someone who lived in barracks outside of D.C as an E3 Fuck Yeah! Atleast the finally remodeled them. Mine was above a press shop...
DontSayRepeat
Fuck that give them fucking tents. They do t deserve as much
dunimal
Agree, so hard.
t3lemons
I wish I could upvote this a million more, is it true that congress just has to serve 1 term and get full retirement free Healthcare 4 life?
RoodKontjeAapje
Aight, that's about 7 cents per US citizen
tempmike
So here's the thing... cutting 26 million dollars from the budget amounts to nothing. Same thing when the GOP wants to cut CPB funding.
Arcanum3000
$26M is nothing. That will buy a bit more than 1/6th of a single F-22 fighter.
glassware
One single F35 aircraft costs $77-100 million and doesn’t work as well as an A10 that we already have
Kushyy
F35 is also likely to become an export for the US since they won’t sell the Raptors
iAmLordBeer
Hard pass. Make congressional pay extremely lucrative so we have more competent people to choose from. Then end gerrymandering.
iAmLordBeer
The only people willing to suggest themselves to running for office are either true believers or mediocre political hacks.
khtad
Also public financing of all campaigns so congresspeople can legislate instead of having to spend all their time fundraising.
PennsylvaniaPalindrome
Oooh, a bridge too far. Those guys fine-tune gerrymandering w targeted data mining. Thanks, Facebook et al!
khtad
This is why we need a Federal Reserve but for elections. Independent with a mandate to create fair electoral maps.
copperdomebodhi
Hire data wonks to draw lines for maximally-competitive districts. Then pols have to appeal to the party's center, not the wingnuts.
khtad
Congresspeople are seriously underpaid.
DeviousWay
The problem with the house reps is that they are legally required to be in there home state x-amount of days. 1/2
DeviousWay
2/2 so they have two places of residence. Can you imagine owning a house in both DC and New York/San Fran? That gets pricey!
LurkerOfDarkness
Well, they don't have to own a mansion in Manhattan or Pacific Heights.
khtad
I don’t think you’re quite grasping how short 170K is if you have to have an apartment in DC and SF or NYC.
DeviousWay
Combined, my wife and I sit at about 110k, pre-tax. And about a 1/4th of that is DC E-5 military BAH rates. No kids. 170k is reasonable.
LurkerOfDarkness
New York state extends quite a bit outside the city, and San Francisco doesn't take up all of California, as for d.c. the govt. Can 1/2
AoShin
As tempting as that is, it would only lead to more corruption. Even progressives are against cutting government salaries (tax yes, cut no)
GenghisKhan2020
Maybe have an independent non-US third party composed of mulitple nations watching it to make sure there's no corruption?
DeviousWay
Agree. If they live in crap, they will be more willing to take “donations” under the table.
TheCacklingJackal
Our politicians should not be sold to the highest bidder. If they get more money elsewhere, make it illegal to do so.
Maverickingdom
It is, sort of. But loopholes can be hard to close, especially when the corrupt are in charge of closing them.
TheCacklingJackal
Politicians have set restrictions on themselves before. The constitution, amendments, and bill of rights for example. We need to push for it
RumpBuffalo
It only leads to that if you let them accept money...
kmcj22
Under paying people in positions of power is strongly linked to increased corruption. Whatever you think of politicians n cops, pay em well
2674E6J
But that's part of their excuse for needing so much money. "I have to maintain TWO residences." Now they only need one. 1/?
2674E6J
Or they could rebuild their office buildings with small apartments. Bonus: Bldg security can now double as residential security, thus 2/?
2674E6J
Freeing police from security duty at scattered residences.3/3
AoShin
A big reason of having congress paid well is to allow equality of access. If it paid bad, elected office would only be available to the rich
AoShin
There's historical precedent where low salary in government excludes all but the richest among us.
dyskordian
Originally they were only paid a stipend. Congress shouldn't be a full time job.
2674E6J
$125k/year + expenses & healthcare isn't enough to live on?
sendmeyourarmslikeliterallycutthemoffandsendthem
I like your idea but that's how you only end up with independently wealthy people in and they will vote for their interest
coalminersknuckle
I’ve gotten some really good care at the VA. I think those people kick ass.
GeneralBadger
Same I'm so glad I have coverage with the VA
CygloPargen
Thanks to, believe it or not, Bernie Sanders and John McCain of all people. VA was garbage before they fixed it up together.
InvaderTaco
I tell people as a med retiree . It is the VA system that is failing us not the VA people. The VA people are some of the greatest
2674E6J
They do. But my point is to stop subsidizing 75% of their Gold-level Health Care & mandate use of bronze-level govt facilities.
MonocledMonotreme
It's a win-win, they'd properly fund the VA and finally actually care about vets as more than a talking point.
KillerTofu615
You've never had to wait over a year for appointment have you? I have. The VA fucking sucks.
CannabalisticSpaceRapArtist
Can't say that I have.. they did chew me out for not renewing meds online instead of in person.. but have been good to me.
hipshopbutcanthap
Im sure it depends. I won't step foot in the Phoenix va
t3lemons
Same, they password locked my records and forgot the password + tried saying I got my tbi prior to joining so I gotta fight that for 3+ yrs
coalminersknuckle
Yeah it seems to be the policy that if you’re not discharged with the rating they deny it the first round then you have to appeal. At least
coalminersknuckle
They back pay you or they used to from your original application date once it’s approved. They system does need work but a lot of the
MofongoBalls
Serious question...what would be the best expense to cut from the military? Like is it just the equipment? Bases? Jets? Tanks?
kittiekomander
11 (count 'em) nuclear aircraft carriers and all the escorts?
Greeneyedfox
Waste. So much waste. budgets are set up / approved so that they HAVE to use it up or lose the funding for next year. Should just roll over.
NobodyExpectsTheSpanishInquistion
They could stop bombing children in the Middle East. Bombs are expensive, and it would be better for the children too.
SilentHowling
Expensive new jets. Need to invest in cheaper drone technologies.
pseudopseudonym
A drone with the radar, ECM, and kinematic performance to fight a jet isn't going to be much cheaper.
pseudopseudonym
But yeah stuff like ground attack planes and maybe attack helicopters are getting a lot less relevant.
greentights
Paying $7 per pencil through defense contractors instead of grabbing a 12 pack from staples for a dollar.
Skywatcher16
cutting back on needless operations, audits for waste and price gouging, budget allocation reform. in that order.
IPoisonedDorcasMutton
Stop pumping fucktons of money into private military contractors for one.
Winstitutionalized
R&D costs a ton.
Corsair212
Maybe go for the best deal, and don't mandate that a project has to have pieces from all 50 states (looking at you F-35)
IdMessWithTexas
Yes
LurkerOfDarkness
Some bases can be closed, some mothballed, administration can be made more efficient, subcontracts with paramilitaries eliminated. A 1/?
LurkerOfDarkness
Greater focus on protecting actual US interests, greater utilisation of allied bases, select key allies to help with development of new 2/?
LurkerOfDarkness
Weapons, like using the 5 or 9 eyes. Be open to purchasing more arms from others or acquiring designs from them. If France has made a 3/?
LurkerOfDarkness
New radar system that fits your needs, don't invent your own from scratch, buy theirs, did Norway make a new minesweeper? Check it out. 4/?
LurkerOfDarkness
Alliances are meant to be a cooperation, but the US is hellbent on inventing things all over again, the enemy dies just as much whether 5/?
Vicith
The best choice would be to cut back on our foreign military presence in stable countries, this would lower the need for equipment and men.
hipshopbutcanthap
Cost for deployed troops skyrockets vs troops at home
bluemagister
Not going to happen. Politicians cannot simultaneously pursue the narrative that China / Russia / ME is a threat while disengaging w/ them.
CoBr2
That's actually not true. Countries like Germany actually help cover the costs of those bases. They save money overall.
CoBr2
Upon googling this depends on the study, but even conservative ones recommend keeping some consolidated bases as most cost effective.
SexuallyImpotentTyrannosaur
The point of the base in a stable country isn't to be in a stable country. It's to be a deterrent to other countries.
AKrustyTubeSock
So the women and children would have to stay!?
MrSaturday
Of course.
Vicith
I had 1 or 2 more letters left before I would have to split the comment into two messages, so I chose to say men instead of soldiers.
acuteavocado7
imagine ur website still only allowing 140 characters in 2020
objcgou
Use of Military contractors for just about everything. And how the military supporting industries make the government overpay for repairs.
robingal1
Don't we HAVE to keep hiring contactors due to our enlisted being too dumb? Our education system is just THAT bad! We must hirefrom outside
objcgou
This completely ignores the fact that a move for military personnel is to finish their enlistment and do the same job as a contractor /1
objcgou
But for more money. Being enlisted sucks a lot of the time. I wouldnt say they are any dumber then people who choose not to join. Some /2
objcgou
Just want access to a job, education benefits, healthcare, or a path to citizenship. /3
BitterBostonian
Exactly this. When I was serving drove me nuts to have contractors doing the same job as me for 3-4x the pay.
J0hnnyMemeonic
Fjorkvar
this
lizardsbehere
Pretty much this. Cutting back on equipment and service members would do more harm than good.
MofongoBalls
Is that exclusively an American thing? Do other countries use them. Bc that just seems to be a shady industry
Winstitutionalized
It seems pretty American.
CheesecakePi
It's a reasonable measure during legit wars. Like if you're fighting the Nazis, you want to make sure government contracts are the main /1
CheesecakePi
priority for your contractors, and everything else can take a number. You don't want to depend on their patriotic obligation if a better /2
CheesecakePi
offer comes along. So we end up overpaying. But these days, it doesn't really make sense for that to still be the status quo. 3/3
KristanDL
US military equipment is hugely overpriced. M1 Abrams - $8.6 mil. T-90 - $4.5mil
redmangc
The F-35 basically has a blank check. First jet paid like that
MrSaturday
Hate that thing.
lemmerustlethosejimmies
There's a lot that goes into those prices. And you get what you pay for. Expensive Western tech has destroyed cheap Soviet tech in droves.
LurkerOfDarkness
Cheap and easily mass produced is also effective.
KristanDL
Expensive Western tech is severely outdated and barely modernized. Besides I saw more burned Abrams tanks than T-90's.
Imabigdealinjapan
So you'd save money on equipment that will cost more lives when we inevitably go to war?
SIGMA920
Yep. A body is more expensive than a tank is when you consider the cost of training, their salary, and everything else involved with them.
SIGMA920
Cut down on jets but don't stop funding development entirely and invest more into drones. Then stop buying unnecessary stuff just because
SIGMA920
your budget will be cut otherwise, then stop Congress from cutting budgets because they haven't spent all of their yearly budget. That'll be
SIGMA920
enough to cut most expenses.
SIGMA920
*unnecessary expenses
MofongoBalls
Would/could the joint chiefs make that recommendation? Understand Congress has to do it. But couldn't they be like...wtf are we doing?
SIGMA920
Stop buying unnecessary stuff and not cut budgets because of leftover funds? All but the most insane/corrupt of them. Cutting down on jets?
SIGMA920
That depends on who you ask. The air force would be spilt because drones are a part of the future but so are manned jets, the marines might
SIGMA920
object somewhat, the army and navy would probably leap for joy.
livurz
The best choice would be to change how its budget is allocated. I'm my unit doesn't spend its full budget, the next year the budget is cut.
bluemagister
Not going to happen without a lot of pushback. The US gov. is legally obligated to spend most of the budget on entitlement programs.
BitterBostonian
That doesn't really work. They just spend the leftovers on junk in the last month because they know this will happen.
Slowga
I think this is very common practice all-around. The year before covid my department was almost 80k in the black. We had to buy a bunch ½
Slowga
of non perishable foods, and new kitchen equipment. I don't work military, this was for a major hotel chain.
livurz
If we have extra in October, everyone is getting 60" monitors on their computers.
livurz
Before you ask, yes its computer jobs, yes its navy shore duty
LurkerOfDarkness
Which in itself is a common budget policy, but utterly moronic, they should funnel excess funds back into a fund to spend on unexpected 1/2
LurkerOfDarkness
Things, to speed up projects underway or planned, and only adjust the budget if there's a consistent surplus over min. 10 years 2/2
sparkingdark
Honestly there is no good answer. if we cut budgets and remove foreign bases for example our allies would be left without our defense ¹/?
sparkingdark
Or offensive capacity also it would take years or decades as a large amount of money is put in to maintaining all the expensive things ²/?
sparkingdark
We do have. As well as veteran benefits and the care of the personal. Let's say we cut budget in half. How many over seas bases, 3/?
sparkingdark
Air craft carriers, tanks, jets would be grounded due to maintenance issues. How much would our security and safety suffer?
BaconFuzz
50% is a rather large cut and I don’t think people who are in favor of cutting the military budget want 50%. Maybe like 10% and we reduce /1
newsguycraigevans
Some of it can be cut and I refuse to believe otherwise but without hard data in front of me I can't make recommendations. My guess is there
t3lemons
No, we'd just take longer to get to them and they'd have to defend themselves instead of relying on the US to back them.
LurkerOfDarkness
NATO, and a few others are the only ones the US are obligated to defend, so concentrate on being able to move swiftly there, others you 1/2
LurkerOfDarkness
Want to protect, not in imminent danger of invasion don't need forces stationed permanently, at most subsidise bases you can move to fast 2
LiveLongAndMuddleThrough
It's not always manpower specifically. Look at our presence in Gulf countries that is mainly due to our ADA capabilities.
bluemagister
Defend themselves? Ha. You have any idea the EU outrage when Trump told them to start contributing the money they previously agreed upon?
bluemagister
source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-valid-europe-isnt-spending-enough-on-def.html