Fuck Pay to Win

Jan 14, 2023 10:06 PM

There has to be a counter-balance to the relentlessness of Hasbro giving every card 7 tits and 3 dicks and making staples extinct. Unsummon, but w scry 1. Smelt, but alternatively, +2/+2. Naturalize, but it exiles and there's an optional kicker. The game is ever more explicitly just a method of parting you from your money.

Don't be a Waylon. Creating brackets based on total deck market price is the path forward. Pauper misses because there are lots of $5 commons that are very powerful, while there are also piles of 25-cent rares that you can't touch. Instead, make it a challenge. How good a deck can you make for $8? For $10? Play against other similarly priced decks and find out!

Running a playset of Swords weighs out at $12 and will bump you into a higher bracket, to play against other players who are making similar investments and deck-building decisions. But maybe you'd be fine using Ousts, for a total of 80 cents, saving >$10 in deck value and putting you into a lower bracket to compete with less expensive decks. Or maybe 2 of each, to shave $5 off your deck value.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

magic_the_gathering

paytowin

Someone didn't do well at FNM

3 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

Arms race

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

This is why I play Cube. All the fun of draft without shelling out cash every time, and I'm the one setting the balance and power level.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yep. Entry should be based on the value of the decks and the hygiene of the players.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I just started playing Magic so I know fuck all but this just sounds like a bad idea. Should be a system for ranking cards and strats. 1/2

3 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

It doesn't need to be a precise system, just fine enough grain to get a decent trichotomy between casual, experienced, and hyper-competitive

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Imagine having to compete at the top tier because you're running 39 damaged current commons and one original Black Lotus

3 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 1

Yes, for the purpose of the deck value, assume near mint & cheapest available printing

3 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 5

Warhammer has the same problem. Shelling out $ for newest stuff yields better results etc

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

No, this is fine!

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Honestly, for me a lot of the fun of it went out when we stopped using ante cards. Yes, I'm that many years old.

3 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Balancing a pay to win structure game seems counter intuitive

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

That's silly cause there are some seriously cheap op decks. I once bought a 30 dollar deck and cleaned house at a Friday night standard.

3 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Play Netrunner. Even when FFG had it, it was a lot more financially gentle, and now it's run by a non-profit that allows proxies all the way into the world championship, release their sets as free PDFs and have done a great job at keeping the game alive. The community is growing and it's more active than ever. When a new set comes out you can just get all of the cards, there's no gambling, secondary market, absurd prices and heaps of useless cards.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I always just printed my own "proxies" until I started using OCTGN

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I'd say the problem here is the cards have no innate value unto themselves. The "dollar value" is determined by a volatile secondary market

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I really can’t believe people are still playing this game. I played in middle school & I just turned 40. It was fun, though

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

better idea: allow full proxy decks and fuck WotC all the way to hell.

3 years ago | Likes 28 Dislikes 1

I would love to find proxy decks to play the old school game I played 30+ years ago but I do not know how to find them..I'd buy 20 decks

3 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

you just print them out and put them in sleeves

3 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

The secondary market is not Hasbro's fault.

3 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

Though I will say I recall they do try to curtail it at tournaments saying only the current editions are legal to use.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Standard rotations are so people have to buy more booster packs. They absolutely try to milk the primary market. But they ignore resale 100%

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Or maybe establish a points ceiling system that puts higher value cards as having more points than common cards.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

If we called the points "dollars", the system would already exist.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 4

It exists! Its called Canadian Highlander. https://www.canadianhighlander.ca/points-list/

3 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Sounds good eh?

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

A $2 deck can completely own a $200 deck. It all comes down to the deals and player experience levels.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 4

There are people who lived after falling out of a 5th story window. Still doesn't make me wanna try it.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

An empty fart of a statement. OP is talking about tournaments, where that level of skill disparity is weeded early.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I've seen it play out at tournaments.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

After round 2? How often, bud? There a lot of little Davids running up the tournament charts? No.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Often enough

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

Cool story, bro. The average modern deck costs about $1000, but sure, I'm sure every tournament not tracked just has rafts of that.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Seems like those brackets would constantly shift. Value is based on demand. As the meta $10 deck gets popular it’ll become a $20 deck etc.

3 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

True. And that's ok. You can either sub out cards or accept being placed into a different bracket.

3 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

IMO the only fun Magic the Gathering formats are sealed and draft. I play them on occasion and just give the cards to whoever looks youngest

3 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

The collecting aspect just gets so toxic for me that I don’t take cards home anymore.

3 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I think casual play with friends can also be fun, but it depends heavily on how seriously your friends take it.

3 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

It never worked well with my friends. Usually it was a problem of some people not buying recent cards and/or vastly different spending.

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It is still fun of course, but every time we tried it we ended up just agreeing a different game would be more fun.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Controlling for price will help balance groups w different budgets. I've got 20 decks under $10. They're fun.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

the real issue is the singles market. if all your friends are getting their cards in packs or trades then probability helps keep things fair

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Maybe not dollar value, but give cards a rating based on rarity/ability/combo potential at time of release. Something for comparison

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Why not dollar value? Why invent a totally novel & arbitrary points / power system, that no one will agree on or salute?

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

And that will only incidentally combat the problem, which is pay to win? Negate the issue directly by using total deck $.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

But how do you prove the total cost value? Keep a receipt for every card you buy? Assign a point value to each card with a "$" in front?

3 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Market price isn't that difficult to establish from a decklist. So long as it's a shared source, it's a mutual obstacle.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Arbitrarily fluctuating average prices is no basis for a system of government.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

No one is trying to force you to sell your deck for the price cited. It's about sorting decks by $ to combat pay-to-win.

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

The online marketplace is all of the things it needs to be here (shared, robust, stable, easily referenced, etc.)

3 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2