CirB
124869
3658
152
Hopping up on the wagon, just 'cause my floorball team jersey used to be no 11
Feb 24, 2020 1:08 PM
CirB
124869
3658
152
Hopping up on the wagon, just 'cause my floorball team jersey used to be no 11
butts4life
Please check your voter registration at vote.org! It's your patriotic duty!
hmzzz
I ain’t on the list
ChikkenandFrikken
So factual, so downvoted
nukemall
Good old separation of church and state - except for tax exemption purposes. Time to establish the Church of Nukemall...
erikleorga
You can't argue logic with an illogical mindset.
Dombieman
Oh thank god for that red border highlight or else I'd have missed the reply
Iatesomecoffeecups
What reply
DogeTheBugBountyHunter
What reply? I’m colorblind.
lncorrectGrammerNazi
oksuggestions
What red border? Can someone circle please what he's talking about?
Maximumerhamster
oh shit! there was a reply?
jarod1701
Oh shit! There was a red border?
ExtremelyHappyGuy
There was a reply? Where!?
JamesAHarrod
Inarticulated
LordLittlepants
Here you go https://www.reddit.com/r/uselessredcircle/
ViolentlyOfferingBeerToSheep
i need red triangles, specifically covering the things i'm not meant to look at
ComcastLover
Kiliso
Doin gods work
pyr0chaos
For anyone who did miss it:
BeerBatteredandBold
Not to be a bother, but can you highlight the text as well?
Iatesomecoffeecups
I dont see anything
IWasDoingFineFarting
What do we see here exactly?
JohnG34897
A buddy of mine in college replaced an entire dept in a State govt because he knew how to use Excel. I wonder how much more waste exists.
CirB
When was this?
JohnG34897
About 05 or 06. The dept made predictions for the legislature. He was hired to help them & ended up being able to do all their jobs w Excel.
JohnG34897
Now, they did not fire the entire dept. They just reassigned them to do entry level work for way too much money.
cadmiumblue
I don't even have a facebook account and I want to friend Jens.
lurkyouallnightlong
Some say, James the Op is still hurting from this slap...
capnsebastian
if we'd spent more of that money on Education, we'd have way more intelligent arguments.
hipshopbutcanthap
And less 4th of July emergency room visits.
idontevenpost
Don’t you take away my 4th of July tradition! I still have 4 fingers damnit
inconsolabledeplorable
And I only need one of them to show you how I feel!
Deafguy8
And probably still would’ve gone to the moon. We use a lot of products NASA dev in order to go to the moon.
Txturtle
Current evidence tends to suggest that might not be the case.
CirB
It needs to be _education_, not the bullshit that currently is presented as education in the US and many other countries.
Ploty
Point
n0th1n
Depends on how it's spent on education. If you throw the money into lots of nice but luxury tech that is just left in boxes, not helping.
Ploty
Also point, or just on higher salaries of the management
MacRockatansky
From what I've seen, it's taken out of the boxes, it's just not as effective as traditional teaching. But it presents the desired appearance
n0th1n
That's a big issue too and why I mention the luxury bit, but I've seen the stuff just left in the boxes in every room as well.
Deafguy8
Just like the dumb “Russian (pencil) Pen” bs you can buy. Russians switched to the “ million dollar” zero g pen cause it’s not....flammable
Fac3Chair
Dosen't a lot of military spending go back into the economy as well?
Captainplanetmotherfucker
7 Billion on potato chips? I see you've met my ex?
Quizz25S
Damnit James
Anotherkev
Also, as Neil Degrass Tyson has written about, these dollars spent by NASA often lead to scientific discoveries that help our nation.
OverMyDadBody
Still stupid thing to try making it liveable because https://youtu.be/e_lhfFKF-G0
Green11ndys
The more we spread out into the galaxy, the more likley we are to survive in the long run
OverMyDadBody
Going to the next planet is zero advance in comparison. But if they want to practice building a space base, then better make a base on Moon
Green11ndys
They are making one on the moon as well
OverMyDadBody
That makes sense at least
CirB
Errmm... are you talking about terraforming, or founding a base/colony in there?
BitchButcher
The US military spends 2.5 billion every 33 hours? DAMN! No wonder so many people living there are so poor.
BabySharkEtc
YOU MUST SPEAK LOUDER! US MILITARY IS MAKING TOO MUCH NOISE!
ArmedandOverclocked
the DoD's budget for 2019 was 617 billion. that's about 1.7 billion per day spent. Medicare 582 billion comes to 1.6b per day.
BitchButcher
Hmmm ... seems like putting holes into people is as expensive as fixing them.
Atomsk
Both James and Jens are talking bullshit. Space exploration is not about helping people or putting money in the economy. It's just research
CirB
It's all of those, really. Calling it "just research" is extremely short-sighted.
Atomsk
No. The "put back in the economy" argument is sort of true for any investment. Even a shopping mall in the desert. But not all 1/2
Atomsk
investments have the same return and that's the point: there are better investments than space when it's about the economy.
CirB
I feel we're veering into more abstract areas. Defining "better" tends to be a line drawn in water.
JeffGriffin
Had a friend build a part for one of those missions to mars.
CirB
Means he's a professional who knows his stuff.
JeffGriffin
He's a machinist. Been doing it for almost 10 years now
FairylandTrashCollector
As a kid I always wondered about that high numbers until I learned that the german Billion is a trillion in english.
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
How about millions we've saved advancing med tech or kept from starvation w/ Intellicrops? All those breakthroughs: military funding, honey.
DamnDan2020
Have you ever lost an hour of sleep in your life Tony!?
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
Doumdidoum
Sonar, radar, lidar and dozen other mil techs all have immense civ applications. You don't need 12 supercarriers to get the benefits though.
mitharas
I feel like funding research without the overhead of a giant murder machine could be a good way as well.
DukePhelan
But what about the shareholders? Can't massively profit off a MIP if you have to account for records like research companies do.
Silas007
So the only way you can fund research is through the military? Sounds like you need to adjust your funding priorities.
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
I love you 3000.
jahsteeles
Hahahah love how serious people took this
fearbeta
Vaanhalen
It isnt a reference
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
Thank you, Cap
BishlamekGurpgork
You can spend money directly on research without funneling it through the military first, you know.
HansGruberKillsDumbledore
ShawnTomac
Why not spend it directly on research instead of also funding the death planes???
MrGato
Because a large amount of the world is also building death planes and I want them to be afraid to use them on us. Granted we should spend1/2
YOURFRIEND2010
Nobody is gonnna drone America, friendo. There's no point to it.
tweakbz
You'd be surprised at the aspirations of the PRC, DPRK, Iran, and even Russia.
MrGato
Granted I’m willing to compromise and spend a bit less on death planes since we have so many already... 2/2
BishlamekGurpgork
Honestly? If developed nations ever loose their shit, conventional military won't be a lot of use. Nobody's putting tanks on the shores of a
BishlamekGurpgork
Nuclear power. My opinion is that in terms of hardware, we really need enough to handle opportunists, and support regional conflicts when
tweakbz
While we have many such systems, there needs to be an imbalance in our favor. Force parity is not a good thing
CirB
While military funding does also produce breakthroughs & new products & knowledge, the vast majority of the money is still (sometimes (1)
CirB
literally!) just burned into smoke without any other real gain except fattening certain pockets. (2/2)
TadashiK
The amount of military gear that is burned, tossed, and destroyed simply because they want to make sure they use all their budget is absurd
Miller16of16
Military cannot pass an audit, in direct violation of the Constitution. Look at what other nations do with much smaller budgets. At height >
Miller16of16
of the Cold War the USSR military was built from an economy about 25% of the US - military spending is bleeding this country white.
2074red2074
To be fair, some of that was the USSR having poor regulations. You can do a lot with a little if you cut corners at risk of human lives.
SjundeSjukaSjomannenSjunne
You play floor ball, @op? We're in the world did this happens?
CirB
Finland. Played on regional & lower divisions in my teens & early twenties. Had to quit after knee gave out. Switched to martial arts :D
Truckfromthewoods
I play with some of your fine Countrymen here in Hungary. They’ve taught me a lot!
CirB
Cool! It's a great game. As a big guy I never was quite good fit, but I still enjoyed playing it. Too bad my knee just couldn't anymore.
georgedragonslayer
Yeah. 33% on social security, 27% on health care, 16% on military, less than 1% on science. Also, only 3% on education? WTF America?
TeronMoonshaft
I've always seriously hated that churches are tax exempt. There seems to be *no* valid reason that I can get behind.
Doumdidoum
How to ruin your political career in 3 easy steps. Step 1: introduce a bill to tax Churches...
YOURFRIEND2010
The idea is that churches are forbidden from political speech in exchange for exempt status. Course nobody is gonna prosecute a church.
hostorganism
It isn't "forbidden", and it wouldn't require prosecution. We just need to enforce the Johnson Amendment.
Kabibble
Many churches run on a razor thin margin, and most provide more good to the community than the benefit the state would get from each in tax
ArmedandOverclocked
IIRC it stems from a super early SCOTUS ruling. the Scotus also struck down specific taxes on the press too at the time.
MrGato
Churches run off donations. All that money has already been taxed. If churches get LARGE donations over the legal gift limit then tax that.
155DangerClose
Then you must be mentally handicapped. Because the reasons are extremely obvious. Ever hear of no taxation without representation? Do you
155DangerClose
2/ How about where those church donations go. Do you really want the Gov. skimming off those donations that are going too the poor and needy
Doumdidoum
Corporations are taxed without representation and Churches take far more than they give.
CirB
There are some traditional ones, like the fact they're taking care of cemeteries, perform many social functions etc. That said, many (1)
CirB
modern churches aren't really doing that anymore, and more of the social functions have moved on to government nowadays. (2/2)
CatsUpvoteTerror
Because they are non profit organization. Note of non profit groups get the same break.
kojenk
Horrifyingly abusive youth camps take on religious status to avoid tougher oversight and be tax exempt.
SidneyHarbor
1) Churches are funded from taxed personal income. 2) Churches don't really sell anything. 3) They spend all their money, so no profit. 1/2
SidneyHarbor
Even if you wanted to treat them like a regular business, there wouldn't be any income to tax, since they would have no taxable income. 2/2
TeronMoonshaft
What frustrates me are the leaders/pastors/whatever of the megachurches who have 100s of millions in assets. Not a cent of it taxed
TeronMoonshaft
Those top five churches in particular walk away with all the earnings from the things they sell--just like major tech and game companies.
SidneyHarbor
The IRS does go after the actual fraudulent ones though. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicf79.pdf
[deleted]
[deleted]
TeronMoonshaft
I honestly have no doubt in my mind that the average church and the average leader really genuinely goes out of their way to help. But the
TeronMoonshaft
insane net and property wealth of the five megachurches seem to make them as bad as all the tech and game companies and squirm out of taces
Ioftenpretendtobeapotato
As an average churchgoer I must agree with you. I do not, however, think taking away the 501c3 status of all churches will help the many
TeronMoonshaft
I appreciate the article and it gave me a few good bits to chew on--though dont even get me started on the NFL....ugh, lol l.
Ioftenpretendtobeapotato
Lol yah that ones a gab
tweakbz
NASA's budget isn't even $100 billion. $22.629 billion for FY2020.
SpacemaniaXu
Plus doing these missions pushes science forward, creating inventions that benefit society.
RX7zx6r
So why is the church tax exempt. Are temples and mosques as well?
DANGERDOCTOR
I feel red borders are like for meme education, you know for meme illiterate folks like your mom.
SleepIsNotMyFriend
"it gets spent and put back into economy" no shit. How about you hand me a portion of that money so i can do the same
pylatt
I feel like both sides of the argument have a point but are also missing the others' point.
Arcian
The problem with military spending in the US is that the federal government allows private defense contractors to charge up the wazoo.
CirB
One of the problems, but yeah.
SidneyHarbor
Nearly all military contracts are "cost plus" contracts, but the Pentagon keeps changing requirements driving the cost up.
Idonotbelievewehavecompany
And that’s how you fund healthcare. Reduce military spending by 1%
HenryLongfellowIII
Yeah, and have Russian soldiers on every street corner in 24 hours.
Pinewood74
Lol. No. Healthcare is already 28% of the US Budget. Defense is 16%.
putinpie
Shit!! Alert Bernie!! This guy has figured it out!!
Maaatth
Alright, Mr. Putin, we know it's you.
CaffeineManic
Current military budget = $693B. Medicare = $731B (which covers only 15% of population.) Taking 1% from military won't work.
kingbudo101
your numbers are a little off. the estimated US spending on defense this year is 934 billion.
MooyahCop
You did it! You solved the problem! Now free health care for all!
kingbudo101
I was just pointing out the numbers were off. But cutting 8% of the military budget would cover the cost of nationally paid college
imdisneyprincess
You do know that 1/3 of our budget goes to Medicare right?
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
You fund healthcare by eliminating the for-profit middleman - private insurance. What they don't mention when they bring up the $32T cost(1)
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
(2/2)of medicare-for-all over 10 years, is that our current system will cost $34T over the same 10 years.
burningitchyrash
lol!
Silas007
I am a strong proponent of single-payer but that is not how it works at all. The entire military budget doesnt come close (And should never)
Silas007
to overall health care spending. How you fund universal healthcare is how you pay for everything else - progressive taxes and solidarity in
Silas007
distributing risk and cost. Taxes of the rich pay for health care of the poor, young for old, healthy for sick. Such a simple unified system
Silas007
reduces cost compared to the clusterfuck the US currently has. Use the military funds for reasonable investment in infrastructure instead.
Occationalrickroll
shingondshingones
But waiting times! fox news people tell me so, not like we don't have waiting times now right?!
theuberkevlar
Fox is ridiculous but you have to realize on average the wait will get *much* worse.
shingondshingones
Not sure, honest question, what makes you think that?
theuberkevlar
Statistics on the subject and my own and other's experience living in other countries with socialized medicine vs in the US. The stats in
theuberkevlar
this article correlate: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2019/03/05/what-socialized-medicine-looks-like/#c86e7b8625b4
69BeerGuy
Too bad raising taxes is only a temporary answer and doesnt fix the real issue. Corporate healthcare is the real bad buy.
Zyrixion
Oh no! But how will we siphon government funds off to our friends with defense contracts now?!
Miller16of16
And don't forget a good deal of the $ sent to defense contractors gets handed back in form of campaign contributions and revolving door jobs
ArmedandOverclocked
Medicare in its current form cost 582 billion in 2019. Shaving 1% from the DoD's 617 billion would not pay for M4a.
Ploty
And let the companies and richest pay taxes. I really don't understand why ppl lack any commitment and conscience to their country
TheCapedCommentator
abeybaby9411
Oh yeah perfect. Then military members can make even less and work in even worse conditions. You clearly know nothing of national defense.
TechnicallyCorrectTheBestKindOfCorrect
I was in the army, and I can say with certainty that at least 25% of the doc budget is waste and grift. Audit the DOD
nobodygottimeforusernames
Friend in DOD accounting can confirm
scatter
You clearly know nothing about the bidding process for defense contractors. Tens of thousands spent before someone even comes to look to
scatter
Estimate the scope of the work. Even for minor jobs like figuring out why a light isn't working.
abeybaby9411
Now that I can agree on. However DOD is doing a good job paying service members to come up with useful products and meet service requirement
RadicalLeftist
How much did the new fighter planes set us back? Or the military equipment the civilian police force get.
abeybaby9411
Brother DOD budget has nothing to do with what the police get. Please educate yourself.
RadicalLeftist
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program
abeybaby9411
Oh boy. That’s retired military equipment that’s being phased out. They give it to law enforcement instead of letting it go to waste.
RadicalLeftist
Oh wow thabks i educated myself and while its not a massive expense its still billions of DOD funds used to buy and transfer equipment
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
The US spends more on its military than the next 7 largest militaries COMBINED. And you STILL have shit conditions?
abeybaby9411
To some extent. More shit pay. But keep on mind the US also acts as military for hundreds of smaller countries. Which we should be paid for
PantherMedic
SMs get paid perfectly adequately lol. Especially when you include the numerous benefits and allowances.
abeybaby9411
Ooooh boy.
abeybaby9411
By said countries.
PantherMedic
We do get paid. Just not in money. We get paid in favorable trade, base locations, prestige, and friendly relations. We're not mercenaries.
MikeMcAwesome91
I agree that most folks here don't understand the importance of defense, but it wouldn't be pay cuts. It would be force reduction -
MikeMcAwesome91
Through attrition
abeybaby9411
Force reduction in actuality looks like far less promotions and this people being forced out.
MikeMcAwesome91
That's a fair point. I'm halfway to retirement and desperately hanging on lol.
okbruh
Big fucking deal, dude. I thought the military was supposed to prepare you for civilian jobs. You don't need to be enlisted forever.
TomGrom
As a service member, that one percent would get cut straight from my housing and salary first... Guaranteed every time.
Pinewood74
Except it wouldn't. Salary and BAH weren't hit anywhere near as hard as other stuff during sequestration.
TheFirstDreadPirateRoberts
People were sequestered, people were removed and by proxy, their salary and BAH.
Pinewood74
Are you talking about furloughs? Or RIFs?
particledecay
That’s sad and accurate
Gryphonosiris
Indeed, can't cut the funding for the tank upgrade parts that the military doesn't want in the first place.
Gryphonosiris
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/01/28/pentagon-tells-congress-to-stop-buying-equipment-it-doesnt-need.html
Userlivewire
Right? When the military is forced to make cuts do people think they stop making f-35s or give less benefits to soldiers?
Userlivewire
It’s one way to surreptitiously persuade service people to vote republican.
TomGrom
Mm careful thinking there, it's a fun idea but we received better pay increases and housing allowance under Obama.
Userlivewire
I’m sure you did but that may not be the perception.
DrJoint420
how about we just cut politicians and generals pays and redistribute those?
curioususername
Wouldn't it get cut from the VA healthcare first since you'd be covered by the new plan?
MaleekTheFreak
The VA is not used by active military members. It’s for vets that espérate for retired
MaleekTheFreak
Separate**
curioususername
So you're telling me it's not paid for by the military budget?
MrHerpertDerpington
It's like spending 300$ on cigarettes each month and not being able to buy your kids a tooth brush.
Supermutant6112
Ah, I see you've met my mother.
IdiotSavantTinker
I see you've met my in laws
GeminiBattle
You just explained my childhood
MrHerpertDerpington
Hope you're better now
GeminiBattle
oh yea. All good now. Living in a jar. eating walnuts with the shell on. all good.
ShaveSteedlesmack
Dollars three hundred?
BitchButcher
No, you read the Latin alphabet from left to right, so it's "Threehundred dollars". Most people write the currency symbol at the end
ShaveSteedlesmack
BitchButcher
I guess you didn't know only Anglo people put the currency sign in front. It's like USA not using metric system.
Azurestar
Literally grew up in this situation...
herkyth
So, it’s the budgeting system the majority of my ER patients employ?
JustChargeYourDamnPhone
Yep! Imagine if ERs weren’t so busy because people were covered at urgent cares. ??
StandAgainstTyranny
Or, ya know, maybe even the regular doc offices they pay the insurance for? My god i hope we unfuck this shit and get UHC.
herkyth
Dude, MY stupid ass could be an urgent care doc in this town. I can wear a white coat and say “you should go to the ER” as well as anyone
scruffenheim
I avoid urgent care whenever possible now. Had significant pain, swelling, and numbness. They listened to nothing I said, and did nothing.
astrangehop
"it's probably not a heart attack, but you'll definitely die if you don't go to the er"
doesntmatter
Well actually teeth are unlikely to be covered, going by the examples set by most western countries.
Bananasareagovconspiracy
Well, if health insurance has taught me anything it’s that teeth aren’t really bones, so they don’t count as part of your body...I guess.
boiphamet
Which is wacc cause it a tooth is chipped in a production setting it's considered a reportable by safety, Because it's a broken bone
uhhlive
Teeth are luxury bones that you need to pay more for to continue enjoying
Freakscar
True. Here's the twist: In 'most western countries' an additional insurance for teeth is a few bucks/month. I pay ~20€ for my whole family.
doesntmatter
As a Swede, I pay nothing, because I don't go to the dentist, because teeth are only covered up to adulthood.
bambulina
Insurance for my teeth only costs me about $20 a month, but it only pays about 1/3 the cost of what gets done. If I'm lucky.
cupcakechemist
I prefer to tax churches like they should be taxed.
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
I can see the logic in not taxing their income, as long as the are following non-profit rules. But they should be paying property tax.
shingondshingones
I mean they are getting involved in politics, might as well right. Just case, i agree with you.
cupcakechemist
Exactly my point, thank you.
CurlySwede
Not really, the issue in USA isn't how much you spend on healthcare, you are already by far number one on that. The issue is efficiency.
Purcifer
Agreed, doctor knows I've got a herniated disc, insurance requires me to have 2 months of PT before it will cover images, great use of funds
TheVermonster
It's that way on purpose. Employ 100k workers and you have 100k no votes when it comes to reform. No one will vote to lose their job.
ActionJohnnie
It should not be run by insurance companies. That’s step one. Price controls on the medical industry is step 2.
gibson101803
Do you really believe the US government can pay all the providers without the insurance companies? The govt already subs this out to 1/2
gibson101803
The insurance companies to administer payments.
ActionJohnnie
Canada seems to be able to do just that at about a quarter of the cost.
twozerooz
Single payer is vastly more efficient
Ghostlogicz
It’s partly money , you needn100% coverage so you can get rid off the upcharging hospitals say they need to cover non payers to start
Ghostlogicz
Then you have less serious issues crop up from ppl not checking them early , and save money on the backend avoiding costly issues
Userlivewire
America is all treatment no prevention on everything.
Ghostlogicz
The other side of the problem is adding costs and companies prices as high as a region can afford not cost to make money
Ghostlogicz
Pass a bill that limits cost of any drug developed in any way with gov uni grants to cost of manufacturing times x , and shorten patent life
CaffeineManic
Plus profiteering Big Pharma and profiteering Big Food.
akom
Are we number one on *government* spending on health care, though? Also, the primary reason Americans spend so much on health care is ..
kuriosly
"The federal government spent nearly $1.1 trillion on health care in fiscal year 2018" and we are pretty on par with other governments.
akom
the exorbitant cost of care and medications here. Things could be more efficient, sure, but greed is the cause.
awholethingofcandybeans
we’re a little bit higher than average compared to other countries’ public spending, and then we double it with private spending on top
CurlySwede
Yes, which is why your government needs to be more efficient at using it's resources. Like outlawing the insanely high healthcare costs.
ColdestOne
True, but people opposing healthcare reform always talk about the money.
PlayingWithDynamite
I'm a reformed version of that person. After finding out we pay about the same tax rate as some socialized nations, the cheap part of me 1/
PlayingWithDynamite
Activated and said what the shit.
Ghostlogicz
We spend like 36% of all military funding in the world and spend more than the next 7 or so combined , that’s where your social benefitswent
pnersvfu
The talk to them about the money saved in the long run. Preventative medical procedures are cheaper than recurring medical procedures.
pnersvfu
For example, if everyone with diabetes has access to cheaper insulin then there'd be less (emergency) visits to the hospital.
pnersvfu
Which frees up the time for medical personnel to treat other cases. It frees up (several) beds that could be used for other patients.
PlayingWithDynamite
If you want to talk prevention then you start talking about dietary and exercise programs, that's the real money saver
PlayingWithDynamite
But people no likey kale and pushups.
CirB
Yup. Also doable. Give gov support to easy activities (public pools, playing fields, gyms etc.) Give lunch credits for healthy food etc.
pnersvfu
Thar's a good point, however that would be making individuals responsible and accountable, ain't nobody got time for that.
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
It seems so brazenly obvious huh..
TanDumpLord
It's just commie propaganda y'know /s
lesliebugs
If only it were true. $9 billion (ie 1% of the defense budget) is not going to fund the country's healthcare.
Idonotbelievewehavecompany
I know right? Complete sarcasm but few will understand
Mugsybugs
It is though
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
I know, I agree. I understand my comment came across as sarcastic, no sarcasm was intended
Comradecarl
Isn't the entire US Military budget like 700-800 billion? You could cut the entire thing and not pay for one year of Medicare for all.
MooyahCop
This is imgur. You can't use real numbers and expect people to change their minds... It offends their sensitivities.
Tomadzo
Care to provide your sources for the proposed cost? Also that doesn’t take into account increased taxes to help pay for it. 1/
Tomadzo
AND everyone would pay the tax rather than private insurer premiums thru your company ins or ACA plans 2/2
Comradecarl
Google. There is a range, but 30 trillion over ten years seemed like a good one without exaggerating costs. I think it's a fair estimate.
Tomadzo
Does it take into account reducing care costs, profit motive and additional layers of private beauracracy?
fortehh
Finnish healthcare has been around 2800-3100 eur per capita per year, so for 300 million that ads up
Dracon27
It's 20% of our national budget and 3 times the second highest military budget globally (China) with the next SEVEN being allies.
RaptorCav
This is misleading. China and Russia, while in strict conversion spend less, their purchasing power is higher for their currency.
avidatheist
The dollar is worth 65 rubles and 7 Yuans. Both have less purchasing power than the dollar. Not to mentioned the military spending numbers(1
avidatheist
are already adjusted to USD, so the purchasing power of another currency doesn't matter when the currency is already equalized.(2/2)
Comradecarl
Yes. But saying percentages doesn't change the amount. We can cut it, but at Max it's 800 billion dollars, it won't solve our problems.
xKaraKx
Medicare for all would be cheaper than the current system
RadicalLeftist
It does when you factor in the fact that MEDICARE FOR ALL IS ALREADY THE CHEAPER OPTION
Comradecarl
It's only cheaper because it's subsidized by private insurance and taxes from people not on it.
zWarlord
Not even close. Current defence spending is around 5%. Healthcare spending is around 14-15% of GDP.
Dracon27
Military spending is about 20% of our national budget dude, not 5%
zWarlord
Ok. As a percentage of National budget healthcare spending was 27% of FY18/19.
Dracon27
As other have pointed out, the proposed Medicare for All plan would be cheaper than the current healthcare system. Meaning, that money 1/?
Dracon27
Would be dumped into it and overflow goes other places. The argument was that the new plan could be funded just by dropping military 2/?
RaptorCav
GDP, not budget. He's trying to make the number sound better.
drunkpanther
What. What? Not only is this contrary to every information I can remember it seems absolutely incorrect. Please provide a source for hs.
zWarlord
Forbes Business article: 2.6% GDP
zWarlord
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/04/29/the-biggest-military-budgets-as-a-share-of-gdp-in-2018-infographic/#30e1d7497508
BishlamekGurpgork
https://www.usaspending.gov/#/explorer/budget_function And this one's a government source.
nobodygottimeforusernames
Spending rose by that amount
Dracon27
He's wrong. It's 20%~ currently. https://www.usaspending.gov/#/explorer/budget_function
BishlamekGurpgork
Thank you for this site. I've needed this information so many times, and keep gathering it piecemeal.
drunkpanther
Thank you very much
BishlamekGurpgork
Question. I see a lot placing defense spending at 5-6% GDP. Why is this number different? What isn't included in the other number?
Dracon27
Budget and GDP are different. GDP is basically the amount of wealth the country produced in a year.
YourMomsSidePiece
That would amount to about $7.5 billion/yr. Bernie's plan is estimated to cost over $3 trillion/yr. So it's not even close to enough.
Doumdidoum
These are rookie numbers! Let's pump these numbers, they are not socialists enough! 10 trillions, 12 trillions!
fuselfluppe
duh....maybe you already spend money on healthcare? maybe there are other plans? jesus you americans.
curioususername
We already spend 3.5 trillion a year on healthcare, so you're saying we'd save money, and not have to cut anything.
TheLazyLibrarian
Yeah well Bernie's plan is primarily transferring the default healthcare plan "market" cost to cheaper central healthcare plan, thus 1/2
TheLazyLibrarian
saving money. FYI, US healthcare cost in '17 was 3.5 tr/y according to CRFB, so that's about 0.5 tr/y saved by rough estimate. 2/2
CaffeineManic
Current healthcare in the US is about $3.2 trillion, about 10K per person. Your individual taxes will go up by that amount, but eliminate…
CaffeineManic
… out-of-pocket costs, so it's a wash. In theory, Sanders plan reduces overall cost 30% so individual taxes for health might drop to $6.6K.
okbruh
Sources or don't bother sharing. It's really not that difficult.
lesliebugs
FY 2019 defense budget: $940B. Bernie's own MFA projection: $30T over 10 years = $3T per year.
YourMomsSidePiece
Sorry, assumed you'd have at least a basic understanding of the numbers or how to use Google. But here ya go:
okbruh
Thanks! Good information is always sourced, and reliable and trustworthy people will always bear the burden of proof for claims they make.
YourMomsSidePiece
https://militarybenefits.info/2020-defense-budget/
YourMomsSidePiece
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-14/medicare-for-all-cost
CaffeineManic
Also: wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_finance">a1">wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_finance_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1 AND berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/
BishlamekGurpgork
Estimated by who? Estimates vary widely, and in the end there's no being sure what it will actually cost. But looking at other countries
BishlamekGurpgork
With similar plans in progress can provide something of a guide to estimate by.
Doumdidoum
Canada pays around 400 billions CAN$ for their system. So maybe around 2,5-3 trillion for the US is believable.
Vaanhalen
Other smaller countries with less of a non worker population.
BishlamekGurpgork
If the county isn't comparable, pick another population. Better yet, examine the costs from that country that are comparable, and then fill
BishlamekGurpgork
In the blanks with costs from other countries that cover the incomparable costs. I didn't say to be stupid about it.
Vaanhalen
Yep and it doesn't work. Even Democrats will admit "it doesnt work". We have too much cost
iisn00b97
That and stop company’s like amazon from legally dodging taxes just so we’re all aware they paid $0 in federal taxes last year
JustChargeYourDamnPhone
But it’s the churches fault!
CirB
Not fault, but if the churches want to be frigging kingmakers, then they'll better pay their frigging taxes!
Vaanhalen
Are you literally stuck in the 90s
CirB
Very large part of Trump's support comes from evangelicals, and lots of churches are actively coercing churchgoers to support & vote him.
Vaanhalen
That's literally what trump ran on stopping. And hes the only one talking about it. If u mean what u say, you will vote trump.
thatscool22
Was this before or after he promised to cut taxes for the 1%? trump is a piece of shit. Always has been, always will be and his kids too.
NOYLL
Also, I'm pretty sure Sanders is talking about it.
CirB
It's what Trump ran on stopping, but it's one of the main promises he completely dropped after getting i
NOYLL
He's had over 3 years, has he stopped it?
SirBagels
BuT ThE DeMoCrAtS **Looks at the first two years when he had both the house and senate** That's a nice stack of bills ya got there mitch...
Vaanhalen
Paul Ryan is a Democrat. Jeff Flake, formerly a social and fiscal conservative, insisted on stopping republican judges from being confirmed
gibson101803
Tell that to the illegal immigrants that were promised reform under President Obama.