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https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Jun 9, 2020 5:47 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
OtterDoom
Flint Michigan doesn't even have a police department, they never bothered replacing theirs after dissolving it.
WroughtIron
Sometimes we forget that we can change things. Nowhere does it say that all systems are permanent.
shuttlecockinakumquat
Camden was among the very worst places in the US. Either it's improved incredibly or the crime stats aren't being tallied correctly, now.
Nemacol
Disband. Reconstituted. Rehire 100 officers. ... ummm.... Callme crazy but that sounds like they just T-1000’s that shit
TenaciousMe
I've seen this banded about a bit. Aren't there MORE police officers in this area now?
mardukkur
The number of officers is rarely the problem anywhere.
DeputyChiefJudgeFish
Yes.
EmberFiretail
They effectively doubled the number of police
DaisyfromDownunder
Where do Camden folks get their taxpayer funded police brutality?
chesterthegreat
That's been outsourced to private corporations.
jedionslaught
They replaced their police force with CCTV and military patrols. Vice covered it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVDvJCeCe54
showmaturepostsandcomments
TL/DR: IT FUCKING WORKED.
Denturedog
Maybe not hire bullies
DidItForScience
Does anyone remember the city where the police went on strike for weeks and crime actually went down?
jillofmanytrades
I live in PA not far from Camden, can attest that feels much safer now than when I moved here 12 years ago.
RogerTwoThree
Cops in the US have become wanna be soldiers. They're employees of the community and they need to fuckin realize that or GTFO.
Hanska01
‘Training emphasizes deescalation.... and the department's use of force policy makes clear that deadly force is the last option.’ that’s how
TheBurritoConfederacy
2018 article about it: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542
BashBack
wants his officers “to identify more with being in the Peace Corps than being in the Special Forces.”
BashBack
Not a complete solution, but a step in the right direction.
Thecynicalspud
There's a term of this called C.O.P. (Community Oriented Policing). It's been shown to have far more success than, say, hotspot policing.
ArcaneConjecture
The catch is it takes TIME to work. MN will have to suffer through years of bullshit until it gets better. Still worth it though.
AverySillyName
They've been suffering through years of bullshit, maintaining status quo is never a good goal.
springuy8
How about you can only police your community you live in? People seem less likely to murder a neighbor.
paulus1978
Actually, most murder victims are known to thier murderers. People are actually much less likely to kill a total stranger.
Thefistdn
Because then there would be nobody to police the worst neighborhoods....
springuy8
But what if they weren't the worst after that????
ButterLube
"though 100 officers were rehired"
ElbowDeepinaTinyOctopus
Wonder what the percentage was.
PlaceHolderTitle
They had 230 cops at the time of disbandment https://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166658788/crime-ridden-camden-to-dump-city-police-force
ElbowDeepinaTinyOctopus
Thanks! I was lazy.
PersonalityFire
So they overhauled their hiring standards, and 100 met the new standards. This is not some narrative-ruiner it's made out to be.
ArtOfKarolMichalec
What will they call it?
sjbrooksy7447
Department of policing
CamelEnamel
Police 2: Electric Boogaloo
BashBack
Wh... what? Why is that the thing you care about?
Dentistman
When there's something strange, in your neighbourhood, who you gonna call?
ArtOfKarolMichalec
Lol I dont care at all, I'm a Polish dude in th UK, but I like languages. So I'm wondering what will people say 'quick call the.... - "
BashBack
They're still called "Police", just disbanded, and reformed them, so that a lot of the structural and cultural issues could be addressed.
ArtOfKarolMichalec
Meh I was hoping for something a bit more exciting like the peace force or the milice or the office of righteousness
crookedhindlegoni
So they went back to being the blue collar job it was suppose to be?
yikesaroni
the alt-right argument is to pretend that Minneapolis is disbanding the police forever (appeal to extremes)
perchance2dream
I'm pretty sure I hear the chants of "NO MO POLICE" ... or did they mean to chant "NO MO POLICE for now"?
TalkingSnake
Because they prefer this kind of policing.
BashBack
TalkingSnake
This is unprovable at this time, to be actual cops and not other people. We have concrete issues to address first.
BashBack
It's one drop in an ocean of things that should be formally investigated.
TalkingSnake
Yup.... god this is fucked.
butsir
So reform the police department.
chesterthegreat
They tried. The police dep. and union there has completely refused to cooperate.
BashBack
Often these institutions are so broken they have to be demolished beforehand.
nopost
It's pretty much the only solution once the union gets a stranglehold on regulations. They negotiate contracts that make it impossible to 1/
Urgalicity
They aren't a union, they are a gang. Unions give back to the community and fight for everyone.
stehenallein
a few unions***
tr26
Well, they’re AFL-CIO members, I wonder if anything’s being done. Oh wait...
nopost
get rid of bad cops, but by dissolving the force and then selectively rehiring the decent cops (assuming they actually exist, which I'm 2/
Bibidibop
Once I learned that, and the history of useless reform, I became in favor of defunding all local police departments.
nopost
somewhat skeptical of at the moment), the union loses their contract power and the municipality regains some. 3/3
RoryBlack1
There are. They just don't make the news. You've seen plenty of posts on imgur alone showing good cops in the last couple weeks
OlderWiser
Suddenly police unions are being demonized. Lines up nicely with politicians taking no responsibly for policy over the years.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
Blaming national politics? In this post they solved it with local change. This isn't a gerrymandering problem.
TreasonousCheeto
Rightly demonized, but literally no one is saying the blame lays squarely on their shoulders alone.
OlderWiser
No that’s not true. I’ve run into several the last few days who are blaming it all on the unions.
petpet3d
Well voting out the politicians isn't gonna happen with their gerrymandered stranglehold on power.
ThePickliestRick
There are good cops. We can never forget this, or we become as bad as the bad cops. There's good cops, and we need to protect them
GiantEnemyMudcrabz
I dunno not rehiring a good cop doesn’t make me a fucking murderer now does it?
ThePickliestRick
I was going more for the blanket assumptions that many police have for certain groups in the populace, but I mean.. you're not wrong
yook101
It really seems like there’s a toxic culture and system that either turns good cops bad or drives them out entirely. Reset then reseed with
yook101
Whatever good cops you can still find may be the only way to go.
tsarroman
When you're surrounded by bad actors, you become afraid to step up. You leave, or self-censor. You release inhibitions to fit in. (1/2)
Clockworkdancerobot
They're so intent on labeling it as "No police, Anarchy" Meghan McCain even heard it described and repeated her bad interpretation.
MicksMixProductions
Its not just that I personally know two people who literally want to just remove the police and people will just live in harmony - but few
nclu
Police unions have such strength against city management, it seems only fair the citizens should have some avenue to revoke their charter
butsir
That's what they asked the mayor of Minneapolis for. "No mo police" cnn cleverly leaves that part out.
SaveitforQueenDoppelpoppolus
oh my goodness republicans are arguing in bad faith someone let fox news know they’ll save us
TalkingSnake
She also said the street outside her penthouse was a warzone. Me-Again says a lot of things.
makeiteasykeepitsleazy
The best part is she said that when she wasn’t even in NYC.
EroticZombiePants
Is she still visually bangable at least?
youlovemeyouhateme
She six months pregnant so you make the call...
Counterfit
Sounds like a yes
TalkingSnake
Who gives a fuck. Let her destroy the legacy of her father and cash in on her mothers fathers inheritance.
ToAoRoS
If only they read up on actual anarchism
IchNicht1
"Bakunin was right" - Marx
Starfox5
Actual anarchism is a pipe dream. I've read a number of their essays, and it's so full of hot air, it would win any balloon competition.
ToAoRoS
Isn't pipe dream just another word for utopia? And is a society not working towards a better future for everyone even worth living in?
Starfox5
Working for a better future implies more than just writing how "magically" problems will disappear.
ToAoRoS
It's more about naming problems and suggesting solutions
TalkingSnake
She probably didn't even read her own book.
Daeyelle
‘Anarchists’ want anarchy, up until the moment it happens. They only want it when everyone else follows some sort of social code.
ToAoRoS
Why did you put the ' there before your baseless lie?
Malloon
Anarchy has been better developed than some ideologies and may work for some time, but it is incredible unstable. Government is inevitable.
ToAoRoS
Disbanding sounds good
dickable
Yeah... I'm not so sure about the part where we remake it, though. Another police department will just be... another police department.
wastedpoptart
Curious, what happens if someone is assaulted somewhere where there is no police?
ToAoRoS
Let's do more of that
opi098514
They still have a police department, in fact it’s even larger than it was. They just used the time to reform its policies.
STGxDante
can be used everywhere to unhire then rehire cops without the mob/ police unions attached and that is the first big step we need to take.
BearToof
Yeah. They didn’t really defund the police. The just removed the old department, replaced it and rehired the (I assume) good ones.
ekzeko
From the people who lived throught the overhaul, almost everyone stayed on.
opi098514
Actually I think it was just over half
ThatAssholeOverThere
yeah when we say to disband and take down the police we mean to tear it down and built it from the ground up
Zella111
They disbanded the city department and created a county one. The wording is very misleading in these articles but they change they made 1/2
Zella111
is impressive. Police are the guardians of the community. New beat cops knock on every door and meet the people. 40%+ less violent crime 2/2
BashBack
Observant.
hbaq246
I actually went and looked. Population has declined over 4%. Police on the ground doubled. Yes, they got rid of corruption. But the 1/2
hbaq246
2/2 crime rate was reduced but not by that much. The community is more engaged with the police.
gandraw
Wow you read the two images the OP posted you must be a scholar.
EpicWittyName
Point being this is cited as the shining example of what to do. Which this is. Except this isn't what is being demanded.
EpicWittyName
The movement demanding the defunding of police departments specifically is demanding zero police on the streets.
dasklaus
I have heard differently.
EpicWittyName
The rally in MN where they kick the mayor out said it, and at a rally in LA. Don't have time to look up videos right now though.
reicaden2
Yop, imagine a city where you call 911 for a burglary/assault/rape/intoxicated driver and they laugh and hang up? "Lulz, no popo here!"
nellynorgus
lol imagine the situation I came up with in my head and nobody is trying to achieve, wouldn't that be funny and bad? LOL
reicaden2
You mean people arnt asking to disband police depts? Seems like that's all I'm reading on here. This post has about 5 commenters saying it.
nellynorgus
You didn't say that, and it wouldn't lead to the idiot situation you painted even if done in the most extreme.
reicaden2
So what do you think happens when you call 911 for police in a city where the police have been unfunded and disbanded?
MishiMoshiSquishyToesies
It's so annoying these clickbait article headlines make it sound like they're abolishing police altogether. Obviously reform is necessary,
mardukkur
What's annoying is that people jump to stupid conclusions from an entirely correct headline and assume everyone else is as stupid as them.
ShadyEsperanto
Reform as it's currently understood is not working. I think the point they were trying to make is the department was dissolved and (1/2)
ShadyEsperanto
completely rebuilt from the ground up. Essentially, not fixing a current structure but completely starting over. (2/2)
MishiMoshiSquishyToesies
it's how they do is important. What works in smaller cities may not work as well in bigger cities. They have to go about it carefully.
BloodAngel85
The author probably never set foot in Camden. Can't blame them though, the town is a shithole and has been for years
TDhattrick1022
If it can work in Camden then it can work anywhere
sjbrooksy7447
Pretty much
Dirtydynes
I lived just outside of camdem from 2009 to 2011 and that place was scary as hell. Saw the aftermath of gun violence a few times..
BloodAngel85
It's still scary as hell, I spent most of my life in a town 15 minutes from there. I still wouldn't go there at night
Zaynara
spent 4 years in camden, 20001-2005 or so, would hear gunfire in the middle of the night sometimes
tpanyS
And it seems that everyone ignores the crime spikes and resident complaints during the downtime of no law enforcement, or that they (1/?)
tpanyS
literally hired back 3/4 of the original department anyways which would imply less an officer-problem and more a policy-problem that (2/?)
tpanyS
could have probably been enacted without causing a gap of no decent coverage. (3/3)
mardukkur
Less than half of the original department.
ACSwineburne
Except that the department was standing in the way of any action being taken at all... so it's either stalemate or something like this.
jfd8u438fdsfkds
But people aren't saying they want to disband and restructure the police, they're saying they want to defund it and eliminate it altogether.
[deleted]
[deleted]
perchance2dream
That's not what they are chanting. That's not what they are demanding. They are specifically chanting "No Mo Police"
BashBack
unsolicitedadvice
That's the difference between what the common ppl are shouting for & what the elites will actually give them, I suspect. NOTE: >
unsolicitedadvice
I don't mean that as criticism of this idea; I'm just not convinced yet that the demonstrators on the street are on board with it.
[deleted]
[deleted]
jfd8u438fdsfkds
Yeah? That sounds like what we have, why would you want to get rid of that?
BashBack
jfd8u438fdsfkds
You don't seriously believe all the social media comments about how cops are all racist brutes, do you?
BashBack
I believe my own experience and the some 400 viral videos that have been verified in the last couple weeks.
BestUsernameICouldThinkOf
They've also doubled the number of cops on the force since then. (1)
perchance2dream
so .. not "No Mo Police".. in fact that should be chanting "MO POLICE, PLEASE"
perchance2dream
or should that be "MO NICER POLICE"
BestUsernameICouldThinkOf
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html
ArcaneConjecture
IMHO, money is no object here. If it works, we'll pay for it. Raise my taxes. Take my money. Just stop the cop brutality madness!
StaticXster70
I'd pay for more humane, socially conscious, interactive people, rather than paramilitary stormtroopers and guns to arm them.
TanDumpLord
Sure, but if it works it's worth it.
NoItsATideUsername
Police should see themselves as members of the community, not in charge of it.
EricPisch
They need to add the community to protect and serve
bloodydingo
They need to add protect to protect and serve.
igetaroundroundroundround
Most major cities hire outside of the city, and this leads to the police thinking of the problems as "they're coming for us next" mentality
Tumescentpie
The warrior mentality. Minneapolis tried to ban these classes and the police union paid for more in protest.
DNAdartboard
They are but at least around DC they cannot afford to live in the communities they patrol.
YouLikeItHuhFoo
Every cop should have a district where everyone in that district knows the officers assigned. They can do town halls bi-week, etc. 1/2
YouLikeItHuhFoo
It's more accountability for the people and the cops when they know each other and apart of their community. 2/2
IJustPoopedMyPants
We do this, nothing but old folks bitching about speeding and loose dogs, meanwhile there were 4 murders in 2 days in the same neighborhood.
vikingrobot
The people need to view the police this way, too; and not as the enemy
BashBack
WrathOfJigglypuff
The problem is that drug dealers and gang members don't see it quite like that.
HatinS8N
Crime dropped because there was no one to arrest the criminals
OddlyParanoid
They aren’t, they’re encouraged to enforce enacted laws, which many of these centrist politicians have failed to change.
Asadachi
it's proven some are just power hungry monsters... we've given monsters basically a breeding ground because lack of education and training
MexicanTrainer
I am the senate.
OohDaLolly
This is why I hate the "thin blue line" and Dave Grossman's bullshit "sheepdog" mentality.
eddyfinnso
That's why I hate when they call everyone a "civilian". Like hey man, you're a civilian too...
GGCrono
"A copper IS a civilian, you inbred streak of piss!" -Commander Samuel Vimes
cutteroo
Yep, Peelian Principles which still underpin U.K. policing (admittedly to varying degrees across forces)
RootMeanSqr
A them verses us mentality.......What could go wrong?
Eldibs
Where I live, the cops are my neighbors and it seems to work because they're all polite and professional.
LiteralVampirePotBellyGoblins
Fuck the "sheepdog" mentality
LaughingSeraphim
Power is the disease. Community is the cure. Stop separating yourselves along lines defined by external entities.
ImpeachTheRump
Do they even check to see if they're hiring a fucking narcissist or is it just like "thank God someone wants to join this shitstorm"
corpusceno
You hear about the guy who was denied the police course because he scored to high on intelligence? And then lost his appeal....
PearjuiceATX
The second bit
Joseph21price42
Protect and serve my ass it’s just hard to see it any other way at this point
Tumescentpie
They should see themselves as servants of the community. Like anyone working a customer service job, they should spend their shift helping.
Neoeon
They are. UK police are taught that they ARE community members but they have duty and responsibility. Not that they learn this. Bastards.
SonderingStrike
I somewhat disagree, some police over here are lovely, and clearly try their best, but as with everything some just aren't as nice
nowwhowhat
Not in America they aren't.
SFMGifs
I’ve said it before, I have issues with UK law and how you operate with it. But at least you try and teach civility. Good on ya there.
Neoeon
Try and fail is better than not trying. Hm.
GamingMule
Do or do not there is no try, and English cops are as much bastards and pigs as American cops.
Neoeon
Indeed.