Lanhdanan
175561
3531
72
May 12, 2022 11:29 AM
Lanhdanan
175561
3531
72
pastramionrye
Let’s stop throwing up straw men and non sequiturs and fight the battle where it is. No if, thens. Bodily autonomy is a right. Period.
suiseiseki
Fight for your right to safe abortions. If abortion isn't safe, neither are you.
300Hectares1TankofKerosene
Stop arguing against abortion bans as if they have any logic whatsoever. Angry Christian fuckheads want total control of everyone. The end
Larktonguesinadicecup
Yep this is "if Jimmy Nelson beats you up and takes your lunch money he should logically have to repay it and fall off his bike on purpose"
Larktonguesinadicecup
...no. They're doing what they want because they have the political power atm and they won't be persuaded by words.
stankginchfurbuger
Oh! Let's ban divorce next! Then we can all be miserable like our grandparents! Next up, let's get drunk at work, like all the time!
itsjustplaid
Can we skip the divorce ban and go straight to being drunk at work?
jimmythehat1
Pregnancies resulting from rape should mean automatic vasectomy for the rapist. Or castration for repeat offenders
M4UsedRollout
Accused rapist is white: "Dismissed. He's a fine young man." Accused rapist is black: "He definitely did it and he'll never breed again."
discosuperfli
I'm all for hard penalties for rape. I don't want our justice system to be able to physically alter bodies. Just keep them in jail.
jimmythehat1
It’s a thought exercise that they’ll punish the victim with life altering and body altering pregnancy but nothing happens to the rapist.
jimmythehat1
Except maybe they go to jail in the best case scenario.
swanglemydangle
Start with hobbling the rapist and taking their arms. Let them keep their genitals.
BootsDusty
dasklaus
Honestly? I hear more pro-castration-as-punishment from the right than the left. They're also usually big on controlling who gets to 1/
dasklaus
procreate, though the way is more often forced sterilization than vasectomies. This tweet isn't as much of a gotcha as it seems. 2/2
tounushi
Chemical castration was the go-to punishment against råpists here in the past. At least for those victimizing kids.
yoyo42
And they stopped because it didn't work. It's about power not sex. They still rape.
ayeseaturtles
You're right! But this argument isn't even about rape! It's about forcing a woman to remain pregnant.
trippingthelightfantastic
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
We fetishize historical legal figures and a lot of the fucked up mindsets these days sure seem to reflect that.
trippingthelightfantastic
ArandomDane
I absolutely agree... Both parties should be able to back out 100%, at the least risk to them. That is why men to have the right to (1/2)
ArandomDane
(2/2) "Paper abortion", Oh and y'all in the US... please get on board with bodily autonomy being a human right. You are an embarrassment.
SoundFuture
I support bodily autonomy*
ArandomDane
Did I misspell something or did you miss the point... With so few words it is hard to tell... Not all of this fall under bodily autonomy....
SoundFuture
I didn't miss it, and the character limitations in general are a pain. I added the askerisk because what bodily autonomy means when it /1
SoundFuture
it comes to the topic of abortion is being redefined to mean in all instances with no restrictions of any kind, and personally I cannot /2
fireflyseasontwo
Back to "Shotgun Weddings"!
hetriedtokillmewithaforklift
And a stain on my shirt
hyperbolix
Abortion laws will mean the bride gets a metaphorical shotgun too?♂️
Haalandsghost
Ok but "guns for everybody" is the most American thing there is.
Robtheshaman
There is a clause as to who everybody is. Sadly that's not sarcasm
Jinxies
Under these rules, any man who masturbates should be jailed for mass murder.
LifeIsHardAsOneThirdOfASmore
My parents, my brother, and my cousin all had shotgun weddings….
Itemidentifier
Are they the same person?
becauseurwrong
Those still happen, except now it's religious families forcing their underaged daughters to marry their adult rapist
CuileannDhu
Years of misery for all involved! Fun times.
MuffinProof
Coincidentally, shotgun is also my retirement plan
DaveSamsonite
Ugh.
KWJester49
Look at Mr moneybags over here, able to afford a shotgun
MuffinProof
I didn't say it'd be mine
Robtheshaman
Those never ended.
TheBlackKaiser
Guns got upgraded.
Engineer401
Machinegun wedding
Headfullofpetrol
AR-15 wedding
Headfullofpetrol
Sigh* I had to Google it. I just HAD to Google it. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/03/01/pennsylvania-church-gun-ceremony-vstop-orig-wmj.
Headfullofpetrol
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/03/01/pennsylvania-church-gun-ceremony-vstop-orig-wmj.cnn
Robtheshaman
"Automatic shotgun weddings" then. :)
gilliamv
The aa12, shotgun, drum loaded, no recoil
TheBlackKaiser
Kill all the groomsmen with one mag.
ImHereToExplainTheJoke
How to solve this: Mandate child support no matter what, even if parental rights are surrendered. They're not optional, and (this is key) -
ImHereToExplainTheJoke
make them a percentage of their personal wealth. Not just income, but literally everything. Stocks, properties, investments, crypto, etc.-
ImHereToExplainTheJoke
If you're worth a billion dollars, guess what, you have to pay your baby mama 100 mil a year WITHOUT EXCEPTION. Watch how fast they decide-
ImHereToExplainTheJoke
that its ok. You HAVE to punish the rich. It's the only way to change the law.
denicedenice
Stop trying logic. Fight them against their hatred of women.
Silarcta
Uh, 1700s the punishment for rape was to marry your victim (if she was pure beforehand). "Building a home" is used to excuse rape of minors+
Silarcta
in El Salvador even today, and they have the worst abortion laws. This is not a good argument, or funny. Need more, not less bodily autonomy
karlingkoss
Welcome to Christianity Brother
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Why would she want a guy who doesn't want her? Does Dave not understand the concept of abusive relationships?
intaglioguy
If women can't have abortions, then they should have the right to decide whether the guy who got her pregnant gets to keep his nads or not.
KittenRunner090
Abortion needs 2 b legal for a lot of reasons, but what about if the guy wants the abortion and she doesn't? Should he pay child support?
KittenRunner090
Or better yet be forced to pay child support would be the argument after a split up.
mechsrule009
Sure, lets force women to deal with thier rapist. That seems morally right. *Sarcasm*
itsjustplaid
I know this is from 2019, but those trying to roll back the law don't actually care. And Hyper-prolifers would be just fine with this.
xcopperx
Yea lets focus on the opposite sex instead of the real issue, the fucking republicans making these dumbass rules.
thinkybrainpains
Child support should begin at conception now. Only right way to take care of an "unborn human being" as Alito called it.
yougonnalearn2day
are you prepared for the paternity fraud lawsuits when the wrong man ends up paying.
thinkybrainpains
the whore men shouldn't be having sex anyway UNLESS they WANTED to make a baby. The slut men can BOTH pay as their punishment for sex. /s
thinkybrainpains
but yeah, this is part of the ChristoTaliban thinking about women. They want to punish women who have sex.
Ezzy666
A man can pay for a prenatal paternity test if they are concerned about fraud
TheScaryDoor
I personally know 2 friends who have been in ongoing legal battles for back-due child support for 5+ years. It's fucked their whole lives
StarryNightsInCanada
Eeerrrr ok… but what about a child created by rape or incest….? Gotta keep that guy around? Nice idea but flawed
Kittynomnoms
Doesn't even have to be those things. If the poor pregnant woman wants out of the relationship for any reason you're gonna make it illegal?
RoutemasterFlash
It's not even a "nice" idea, it's a stupid idea. It's better to argue against terrible policies by saying they're terrible policies, rather>
RoutemasterFlash
than by coming up with other policies that are also terrible but very roughly in the opposite direction.
LotharKingOfTheHillPeople
It has nothing to do with equality. It's all about control.
DuxNautarum
So breakups and divorce would also be illegal? Pretty stupid idea if you're making the pro-choice argument.
Lisekmaly
Well the rape should hold at least the same penalty as abortion of the pregnancy it caused. And no more "He has a bright future" bullshit /1
Lisekmaly
/1 maybe add being an accomplice to abortion too, it would not happen without the guy after all. Just a suggestion.
biffabiffitosparkito
This!
tylercutebiker
That sounds like it would just exacerbate the problem. Also, child support is mandatory so....
Thelrishlnquistion
Maybe states should mandate compulsory vasectomies, and only undo them when the man proves they’re capable of looking after children.
Iknowimnotspanish1
Death of parent due to complications of pregnancy/birth of unwanted preg should result in execution of the impregnator as well. Fair's fair.
olafthrig
Let's restart those orphanages since most abortions are performed on women who are already parents.
path0sMathos
That's what you call eugenics. You know, one of the things the Nazis were known for. Genocide without the killing.
Geckolead
Them when does the woman prove she is capable?
M4UsedRollout
We should probably keep eugenics illegal but I get the sentiment.
somethingstupidandclever
In Ohio we've done eugenics backwards. If you know your not yet human is going to have downs syndromeyou can't abort it.
path0sMathos
Not for long if right wingers have anything to say about it.
Jolstra
Vasectomies are considered permanent changes and should be looked at as such. They are not like deciding not to wear a condom.
Penguinofmyspirit
So save sperm for when you're ready.
Darkwell
That would be abused instantly. Who decides who is "capable?" Are the deciders politically appointed? It would be a genocide via infertility
Thelrishlnquistion
Right but the Supreme Court is deciding that the government owns everyone’s bodies now. Or is only women who have to put up with that shit?
olafthrig
Don't go giving them ideas. We have a history of sterilization and it is not a road to go down again, Carrie Buck.
FlameInfernoh
We are at 95% successful reverse rate now if less than 10 years ago...maybe we should. This option is getting you deeper into murky water...
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
Nope, not remotely true. 75% within first 3 years, 40% after 8-10 years. Besides, telling 1 in 20 men they can‘t have childen bc „whoopsie“
FlameInfernoh
I'd like you to site your research journal. Because I can site mine.
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
Then cite away. Because you were the one to throw those numbers out there originally, and I believe you‘re full of shit
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
is pretty darn evil.
Morg729
BUT MY BODY MY CHOICES...wait (republican hypocrisy)
RoutemasterFlash
I can see where you're coming from, but all these "If abortion is illegal, then..." arguments all have severe legal, ethical and/or >
RoutemasterFlash
scientific or medical flaws. It's much better just to say "Abortion should stay legal because it's an important human right."
NougatSteak
This isn't designed to make a point. It's designed to make the reader uncomfortable. All we want is bodily autonomy
Thelrishlnquistion
RoutemasterFlash
Well then that *is* the point, isn't it?
Dolenmorgul
So instead of 'let's not take away women's rights' we're going with 'let's take away everyone's rights'
Thelrishlnquistion
Either it’s all ok or none of it is
Dolenmorgul
Only the second one
Thelrishlnquistion
Good. So keep roe as it is.
tounushi
In other words needing a license to breed. That'd be an interesting debate.
itsDeedsmf
The men all qualify. The women do if they're involved... this is just fucked up
TiddyMcGillicuddy
Impossible to enforce unless you're China
Salpinus
The way they enforced it was that your second kid would get absolutely no benefit from the state. Eg no school, health care etc. So, things
Salpinus
you hardly have in America already, and what you have the republicunts are actively working to ruin anyways...
TiddyMcGillicuddy
Good point
youcancallmesusanifitmakesyouhappy
As i’ve pointed out before, they aren’t usually successfully reversible. Science isnt quite there yet.
kakari
Maybe we could finally get Vasalgel/RISUG off the ground, or Contraline's ADAM trial although that's a hard block like a trad'l vasectomy.
Micro2112
Ectopic pregnancies aren't successful either, doesn't stop GQP from banning the termination of them
youcancallmesusanifitmakesyouhappy
Im not disagreeing with that, i’m saying it’s an equally stupid idea as banning abortion
AnalFistingPornstarLegendWolverine
That's the fucking point. Pass laws to hurt women? Turnabout is fair play.
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
No. Losing human rights doesn‘t become right or even better because more people get hurt.
youcancallmesusanifitmakesyouhappy
No, it’s jut lashing out. Which while understandable, doesn’t get us anywhere.
Akurei00
They're the same in overstepping autonomy, but are functionally opposites and could lead to the slow end of humanity. In other words, it »
FlameInfernoh
Actually! 95% reverse rate if less than 10 years ago...still higher than the rate of uncomplicated pregnancies by FAR. so, you a liar?
Jolstra
For all intents and purposes, they are considered permanent changes. I mean, when do you even determine a start date?
Jolstra
If it's 18, most reasonable guys don't want children till their 30s. You just denied them that.
youcancallmesusanifitmakesyouhappy
Not according to several doctors i’ve seen so idk. I was told between 5-50% in the first 5 years.
FlameInfernoh
Maybe you should site a medical journal, kinda hard to take your word on what cousin Julie told you. Thought that was reserved for facebook
nangke
Some doctors don't keep themselves up to date on procedures they're convinced isn't worthwhile or not in demand
nangke
Lots of docs also won't provide preventative ops unless a person and their partner sign off on getting it done, like if they alrdy have kids
elcee50
These comments about "but child support" are concerning, like there's not more to being a dad than that...
IHaveUnpopularOpinions
How much is child support in the US? Where I live, I think it's like half of the actual costs, like daycare, insurance, housing etc.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I don't know about the US, but in Canada it's based on income. So even if it's nowhere near half the actual expenses, that's just too bad /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
for the custodial parent, they'll have to figure out how to fill the gap. /2
IHaveUnpopularOpinions
Meaning, when the non-custodial parent doesn't have money, the custodian has to fill the gap, no government subsidies/aid?
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
It's pretty hard to get aid in the US. So if one parent doesn't pay (because they don't have the money, or they just skip out), usually /1
sickofmkingnames350
Sometimes that's the best you can hope for.
dantonic
Ok... we're talking about legal vs ethical. Of course you can have shitty fathers, and shitty mothers.The mother is more "stuck" with the
dantonic
baby than the father is for obvious reasons... she bears and has the child.
fennecbutt
There's more to being a dad when you want to be, sure. But I sure women should have bodily autonomy, but that comes at the expense of men
fennecbutt
Who don't necessarily want a child. And "just don't have sex then" is the naive, childish answer to a two party problem.
iCurse
Honestly, depression has made me a terrible dad, but at least I give my family everything I got and would protect them at all cost
XenapusLeavis
These arguments are not about folks who want to be a father. Rapists should pay up, and have no rights to fatherhood of a forced pregnancy
CharlieWoolf
The really dark thing is that they CAN (in some places) claim parental rights.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
The problem is, if you can't get them convicted as a rapist, they'll have the same rights as a non-rapist to their children.
Leithoa
No, they mean in some states convicted rapists are given parental rights by default.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
JFC. That's so messed up.
Malloon
Anybody who'd need to be forced to do that shouldn't be.
zerogenix
My father was present physically but not emotionally, unless you count emotional abuse which went hand in hand with the physical abuse.
zerogenix
I wish he had just not been there and sent child support.
q34tw4
(1)I can say that child support should be changed. its a reason why shitty fathers dont stick around. I know its not a good excuse but
q34tw4
(2) a friend of mine got sick missed a few child support payments and he was sent to jail, lost his job, still owed more child support
meskarune
You don't get jailed over a few missed payments, people can report income changes and there are court dates before jail happens.
meskarune
Most likely jail was for not showing up in court and not missed payments
q34tw4
(1)Its what we thought as well but since you are unfimiliare with how fucked the court system is i will tell you this
q34tw4
(3) and it was harder to find a job because he went to jail. Its been 8 years and he finally recovered financially from that situation.
q34tw4
(4) Im not saying we get rid of it or its a good excuse to not be a dad but my friend is a good man and great father He didnt deserve that.
vegivamp
Your right, but targeting the wrong thing. Child support is not at fault here, the problem is living in a system where being sick is trouble
Insanepixi
Meanwhile my abusive ex didn't pay for 5 years and nothing happened to him. The arbitrary-ness of it is infuriating.
ShushBeQuietSilly
Baby plopping out and their first words being like
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Well the problem is we don't want to end up forcing women to marry the guy who got them pregnant, and we can't force a parent to spend /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
time with a kid they don't want to parent, because that's harmful for the kid. So the only thing that's reasonable to enforce is child /2
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
support, so at least the poor kid isn't raised in poverty. Hopefully. /3
Seranna
There's also the part where women who can't get abortions don't want the kid either. It's all fucked up.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
That too. People don't seem to understand that giving a baby up for adoption is extremely difficult to do. So some percent of women who /1
AboutasSnappyasaZipper
I dk… throwing money at something usually tends to do the trick right? /a
AboutasSnappyasaZipper
/s *damn autocorrect
playingdead2022
Dad raise kids they dont walk out. Dont gotta be bio dad to be dad
TheMouseOfMadness
the people who tend to make that argument tend to be shitty fathers, so yeah they think that's all it is
SuperfluousMeh
Mine actually complained to us about how much he was FORCED to pay.
IAmTheBadW01f
That's like my minimum wage job giving us employees a letter with our paycheck complaining about the minimum wage increase
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
I'm sorry your dad was *that* self-centered.
Seranna
My ex husband was pissed he had to pay child support and said he was being "taxed" for having a kid. No that's just having a kid.
gravyandfries
Jesus, every time i dated a woman with 1 or more kids was always the best. Kids are so much fun… can’t imagine bitching bout caring for em.
SleeperXib
JFC...
Jarilye
Jentucky Fried Chicken...
AngryQueefNoises
Mine did too. He paid a whole 50 a month.
RawChicken
At least he paid, mine I've never did.
SuperfluousMeh
It automatically deducted; he had no choice. The worst thing was he still rec'd dependant pay, so he wasn't even losing any $.
AceMonk
Did he go to jail for it?
RawChicken
Nah, I'm 36 now and back then it wasn't as well enforced in the UK as it is now.
secondtalon
If a woman gets pregnant, then I say every suspected father is on the hook for child support until paternity is determined. As in dude pays.
secondtalon
And no "not my kid, so I get my money back" either. You get a 9 month financial reminder to wrap it in the future.
fennecbutt
This is so much bs. No gay man should ever be close friends with a woman under such a law.
olafthrig
You realize condoms aren't 100%? No birth control is which is one of the many reasons abortion is necessary.
secondtalon
You realize the point of this is to be overly draconian for effect, right?
olafthrig
My apologies for thinking Godwin's law wasn't needed on Imgur.
RideTheStimutacs
Also "but adoption" from people who have no idea what a full-term pregnancy does to a body.
RideTheStimutacs
Which is what they like, because it's punishment of women for having sex.
SlappytheDummy
Also is about responsibility. Not just economic support but taking care of the kid.
PoopyProblem5
Yeah but some would rather just have child support than a shitty father
vegivamp
There's lots more to it, but that's the argument that impacts the assholes supporting this.
agreeablebug69
Also, child support is super easy to avoid in most states. Friend’s dad has never paid to support him. He’s a cook at a casino 1/2
agreeablebug69
And somehow this makes his wages exempt from going to child support. 2/2
mmckee44
Of course there is more. NOBODY denies that. But there should be an absolute minimum and that would be child support.
elcee50
Yeah, there should be, but these comments below I'm referring to are acting like it's REMOTELY the same thing which is ridiculous
tacosarejustmexicansandwhiches
Also in at least some states the father can sign away all parental rights to get out of payments.
cfbshank36
Wtf‽?!?!
06cpayne
Wut
Eednam
Only if there is someone adopting the child will they allow that, they don't let you "sign away" child support ????
TheArcticAC
This is not true.
alwaysthecheesegrater
He could refuse to sign the birth certificate.
amb1021
That doesn't accomplish much if the woman or the state want to prove paternity.
Pseudodraconian
I was happy to pay my child support, even when they moved 2000 miles away for my ex's schooling. But I wanted to be a father
Pseudodraconian
I worked for an airline and flew to visit them every month for the 2 years they were there, stayed with my ex wife and her new husband
amb1021
That's awesome.
WaitingForTheDrop
I admire your dedication and wish my ex would do that for our daughter. Kids need the support from their father not just financially.
Sonicschilidogs
Then move and follow your kids. You have to FIGHT for that shit. It's what I'd do in that situation with my 2 sons.
GgE39HRbQknyur
So why do men have to "FIGHT for that shit" and women don't have to, yet they need to pay alimony?
Sonicschilidogs
Must not know very many women then.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Women absolutely have to fight for that shit. And are generally far worse off financially after a divorce, because they're more likely to /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
have given up a career to care for the kids. If both take care of the kids equally, and advance their careers equally, they'll be making /2
TheShaffinator
Yeah... child support exists, they already can't really back out, and they go to jail if they try to avoid it
robertfraser
Some people think that paying money is equivalent to being a responsible parent. SOME OTHER people think those people are scumbags YMMV
Phreddlicious
If you think providing money is all there is to bring a parent, boy do I have some news for you.
slaughterhouse4andahalf
My dad moved out of state to avoid child support. Just saying
CharlieWoolf
It’s often state to state and they can get out of it just by moving away
Toruko
It being illigal and consequences being handed down are two seperate things. Plenty of deadbeats dodging jail time over dodging childsupport
Lanhdanan
Lots of deadbeat dads out there avoiding responsibility. Threat of jail means nothing to them.
TheShaffinator
youre not wrong but my point is is that it's already illegal, it's already on the books as a crime
BobBFoot
Sad that being in jail is a better option than being a parent.
Aethora88
Right. Also who will support the mother and child when the other parent is in prison for refusing to help?
Aethora88
The whole point is you can't FORCE someone to do anything. Period. Not carry a fetus, not care for a child, anything.
Lanhdanan
^------
limbodog
Child support isn't the same as being forced to carry a fetus to term
stingingnettlegurlL7
This.
[deleted]
[deleted]
limbodog
That's definitely not the same either
[deleted]
[deleted]
limbodog
Chill, dude. Disagreeing with you is not calling you an enemy.
xmsbeanx
100%! Plus not all states force fathers to work. My ex pays $15 a month in child support bc he's a SHD dad to his new kids.
ArandomDane
Of cause not, no one says it is... The risk is different, but stile to health especially in the 3rd world where healthcare is for profit 1/3
ArandomDane
2/3 Can't pay... Poor? Doesn't matter... Garnished wages/jail, which result in worse care aka greater risk of death... With it not being
ArandomDane
3/4 with it not being your choice to have the kid... So not the same, but with some striking similarities...
ArandomDane
4/4 cost of children should be paid by society, not just the parents. It is after all us all who benefit from there being a next generation