I am a planning commissioner in Virginia for a county with 75,000 people. This is a conversation 100% about ZONING LAW. The US was built with the automobile as an assumed extension of the person. We are past the point of no return, way past it. Society didn’t think about urban sprawl, it just did what felt good.
Now, we are realizing, the piper has his hand outstretched and is looking to get his due.
It's just walkable cities, man. I had this same experience in Boston a thousand times when I lived there. You let people live where they work, and let people toss up little stores to cover needs where people live, and you find that people actually go out and do things and make a community. Zone stuff strictly, so you live in one block, work in another, and do your shopping and eating in a completely separate one from either, and it will be no wonder that everyone just gets delivery.
We just got back from Europe specifically Switzerland, Germany and Holland. We are soooo far behind in this country. It’s really stunning when you see it first hand. We bomb, they build.
late to the game. murica was purposely designed unwalkable so the car companies can make all the monies. it's easy really. everything about the u.s. has money as the driver...no pun intended.
I lived in Munich for 4 years. The area they are in is in the old city center in a dedicated pedestrian zone that falls within the old gates/walls of the city. Very limited car traffic in the immediate area. They also have a fantastically well-developed public transit system of subway (U- & S-Bahn), streetcars, buses, and bike lanes that feed into that area, so yes - it is a fantastic place to go walking, sit and have drinks, dinner, etc. Wish we had that for sure!
I have been living in Germany for nearly 10 years now, and while there plenty of places like this in Europe, there are also many places that are remote and don't have anything like this. I hate these comparisons, because its apples and oranges. There are also plenty of places like this in the US as well, its just more spread out than Europe, understandably
I live in a suburb of a major US city (36 miles away) and there's a town center about 5 miles away. It's the hub of the county I live in. Every friday, they shut down the main street and open up the government center parking garages for free parking. People come from miles away to park in the two garages and spend the evening walking through the street, moving from shop to shop, restaurant to bar to whatever...it's a wonderful evening. Then on the first friday of the month, it's more of the same
He’s in the center of Munich and he’s comparing it to his suburban neighborhood? Try comparing it to any large city in America and you can find similar areas
You left out the incredibly reasonable prices to go out to eat. Me and wife would spend $50( €45) all in for 4 drinks and 2 entrees. Often got a free small dessert (or schnapps)
All of Germany I saw is like this, Bonn/Koln mostly, but also around Stuttgart a bit, and everywhere else in Europe that I visited as well (Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg). Sweden is even better. They have 'garden cafes' there which is a hobby farm, a few acres, where you can sit in the garden, drink coffee, eat some tasty baked goods, and watch your kids play.
This is what happens when you support the middle class! They have money to spend.
Pretty much every city and quite a few small towns had them as well. I was just pointing out that particular spot in Munich where they are is that way mainly due to it being in a historical area of the inner city. Hofbräuhaus is in the opposite direction from where they were headed!
I went with my wife for Oktoberfest a few years ago, was something I always wanted to do. The Schweinshaxe at Hoffbrauhaus is amazing be of her very favorite things
I mean, yeah, if you walk around in suburbia, of course you aren't gonna find a bunch of restaurants. You gotta walk around the places where the restaurants are, which *do* exist here. Go to pretty much any medium-sized city and there'll be a downtown area with restaurants and bars and quirky bookshops and, like, specialty houseplant shops and stores where they sell board games you never heard of and bullshit like that. Greenvile, SC; Asheville, NC; Little 5 Points, Atlanta, GA; to name a few.>>
the difference is that we have tiny pockets of space where its like that and for them its so everywhere its inconcievable a space where thats not the case
People in general tend to think all of the us looks like that one image that always get posted when “stroads” are brought up. There are 5 towns around me in the burbs that have very walkable downtowns but the further you get away from a city center the less walkable anything becomes, that goes for the us, Europe, Africa, Asia, basically the entire world
I live in a midsized (smallish large city?) and what he's describing is my neighborhood. We've got dozens of restaurants and bars and three parks, etc all within a mile that are full of people every night. These people live in suburbia and then complain that is not like a city center...
You can't have this whole also insisting on massive lot with yard etc. This works because people are in flats and want to go to third places to hang out
Everyone keeps pointing fingers at various things to blame "it's boomers" "it's the govt that doesn't care" "it's capitalism", etc. the real issue is something else...timing. the main reason so many European countries have these tight knit, walkable cities/areas, is because the areas were essentially constructed/inhabited before ease of transportation was a thing. So, as the country industrialized, it had to fit the established population and cities.
Compare that to America where a large portion of the country was established AFTER ease of transportation, meaning things were able to be more spread out. Here, industrialization resulted in cities/population being fit around it (rather than the other way around like in Europe).
This is a myth. American cities used to be relatively dense, more like European cities. Then they got bulldozed for highways in the name of modernity, especially black neighbourhoods. See the before/after images of Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cbbFziI9o8. They were similar plans for European cities, and they faced more resistance.
Exactly. I would assume that down town any bigger settlement or one that is a regional centre has at least one or two streets/corners/blocks/houses like that. Come on. Even my <= 10000 people country side'ish town had its bars and restaurants.
Question though.. are they filled to the rim at a Wednesday? Not saying you don’t have it. At all. But there’s a difference between having and using, especially when you see this used a LOT.
Suburbs fucking suck. They exist because of white people fleeing cities, the street plans suck, they're parasitic on the cities they claim to hate, the sprawl and waste they create is hostile to the environment, cars are required to reach anywhere of interest in a timely manner... There's very little positive to say about them.
Also, people who served in WWII & had been less fortunate (Italians, Poles, Jews, Slavs, Irish) fled crowded tenements & ethnic-designated neighborhoods. US cities don't have open space like these in videos. In the US, owning land & a house was a dream to the children & grandchildren of immigrants, especially those sold a vision of smalltown America. I covered (reporter) a neighborhood rebuilding meeting. Residents said when they moved in (1950s-1970s), people knew each other and interacted. 1/2
The houses were built 1950s-1970s, and people knew each other and interacted. The older folks blamed tv, electronics, no interactions, and no one new buying houses for the decline. White flight was a symptom, but we built it brick by brick.
Just off the top of my head cities like Boston, nyc, providence, Portland (both of them) Denver, Seattle, San Diego, San Francisco all have certain parts that are very walkable but also have more business centric areas and industrial areas. Look up Munich, it is not all like this, just certain parts that are mostly touristy to encourage people to visit
BTW, this is what happens when a govt feels it exists to serve the people and not eight billionaires.
Christmas in Munchen is cool, esp the Glühwein (warm spiced red wine), and it really fucking pretty and I am a Jewish kid who was in Europe on US Army dime.
I will note that USARUER banned us from going to Munchen during Octoberfest, cuz can't have drunk soldiers, who would even know what could happen if a soldier experienced alcohol.
The German government still serves a lot to rich people, sometimes trying to be a little American. But it's far from being that dystopian as the real US. But you will only find a few people who are "proud" of our nation and jerking on the flag everyday...
I spent 10 years in the US Army (my active duty time in Bavaria), I joined to pay for college and I got to drag a machinegun around the mud of Hohenfels.
That being said, I have no particularly love for one country or another, I was born in the US, and I live here, but I am not particularly proud of something I am only a part of by accident. Do I like living here? Sure, it's fine... but I am mostly just afraid of what the country will do to people.
Boomers are for a lot to blame, but not for this. Boomers exist in every continent and country. Only the US is fucked in such a degree. The actual problem is rampant capitalism. And you know it's capitalism because American capitalists are making so much money that European and Asian capitalists try to copy them, even though we see the US falling apart right before our eyes. Capitalists taught you that your only worth is work and you have to survive just so you can get back to work.
I absolutely hate to hear asian friends talk about American fastfood and coffee chains like I should know wtf they are even talking about. We (in Sweden) have been able to push back on that U.S. invasion thanks to strong unions and local food culture. Starbucks failed horribly here. Five Guys just opened and everyone hates it. Every U.S. chain here is worse than anything local and IMO they only survive in other countries because they exploit workers and skip on quality. We don't need "cheap".
The moment they strip you of your human worth, having fun, socializing, walking among strangers are all threats to your survival. Trans will get you, gays will get you, immigrants will get you. And if not them, then probably you are on the opposite team and ICE will get you. You have to be afraid. You have to survive. You have to consume. You have to work. You are not human. You are a cog in their machine.
I suppose you have a point. Car lobbying really screwed American communities. However I would point out that NIMBY was big with boomers. Furthering the issue
When they were literal babies, their parents were enjoying some of the best times for workers your country has ever seen. As they grew up, they also benefited from those same social benefits, but as they grew older, they began working to pull the ladder up behind them to protect their own investments with no concern for how many people suffered as a result.
They're absolutely the generation of "fuck you, got mine".
They fed their kids bullshit promises about how bright their futures would be while they actively worked to destroy the possibility of such a future for everyone that comes after them.
The car/oil lobby was in full swing at that point, misinformation was already everywhere. Most of them also didn't have the money to affect any real change. It is wild how we are fine with blaming corporations and billionaires with all the shit that happens today but put the blame on Joe Schmuck and Jane Everyperson from that era. Child rapist in chief is a boomer, yes. Should future generations blame the current ones, and only those, for letting him get away with everything? Is it that shallow?
4 (5 and 6) lane streets lined with strip malls, gas stations and Walmarts. That's Americana having stripped any and all quirky fun and individualism from every town across the land and rolled up the sidewalks too.
Evangelism is the problem; the premise that your religion is right and everyone else is a thicky thicky dumb dumb who needs to be corrected.
It is a hateful ideology that has its roots in imperial racism. The gall of someone to tell another that their religion is wrong and yours is right. They should try that at their American workplace and see what happens to them.
Fun Fact, if HR will fire you on the spot for it, you should prob not go to another country and do it.
it's the same feeling I have now when I see an american flag. I didn't used to feel this way... but now? I see an american flag and feel a surge of hatred flash through me - not towards the flag itself of course... but the people flying it. because over the last 10yrs the vast majority of people flying an american flag have been racist, sexist, homophobic, brainwashed maga fucks who don't care about america but only care about "owning the libs" at all costs.
I spent 10 years in the US Army, wrote a blank check to every American, and now, when I see someone waving an American flag, I ask myself how much they hate black people.
Idk what the implication is here. Who serves "missions"? From other comments, I get that it has something to do with the church. I'm from a Muslim country and don't know about church stuff.
So, Islam is more than 1300 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man; Christianity is 2000 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man; Judaism is about 3200 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man.
Mormonism is almost 200 years old and spends its time investing in mining operations and has amassed some $200B in investment income and promises young men their own planet if they can populate it.
What does that have to do with "missions"? I'm aware that the three Abrahamic religions are about kindness and caring, but I can't relate the concept of "missions" to this post. That's what I'm asking about.
My point is that most religions basically boil down to, 'don't be a selfish piece of shit' and Mormonism (and the Prosperity Gospel) are like, 'nah, fuck that'
The Missions are to convert people. That's it. They are also a key part of a cult.
See, people are confused and think they are the purpose of the mission, to be converted, but it is the people on the mission who are the intended audience. To send them blind, into the world, to be rejected, over and over again... this is to remind...
... and reinforce that the only safe place is inside the cult.
The constant rejection and slamming doors and being chased away strengthens the in-group identity; it validates the persecution narrative and enforces a high-cost commitment, it forces the casual followers to give up.
The Rejection is the purpose... and religious imperialism.
Man, I was looking for Doug Stanhope's bit where he talks about meeting other americans while abroad, and how quickly he feels ashamed to be placed in the same category with them, but to no avail :/
Bit on the other hand, they are out in the world, expanding their view and could likely end up breaking the cults hold on them. I see this video as someone opening their eyes to something new.
How convenient they were assigned teh place where they had to give up....no conviences. The 4 car garage comment is a punch in the stomach too. Summering in Leipzig or wherever when at least some poor kid could have gotten more use out of the experience.
I joined the US Army after college to pay my student loans off; got to spend the next few years in Bavaria (Hohenfels) playing in the mud while training NATO on how to do peacekeeping operations.
Wasn't bad, we had two BMWs in the driveway (aka the reason why I will never buy another BMW) and a nice house in the country.
The thing is, it is mostly Christians who are rude enough to invade another country and try to tell them that their deeply held religious beliefs are wrong.
Their church sent them to Italy to convert Catholics into Mormons by telling them that their religion is wrong and only Mormons are right.
They got sent to Italy instead of Uganda or Suriname because their parents are rich and made sure they lived in luxury while wasting their time annoying Italians.
Ahh it's a mormon thing. Thank you. I don't really know much about mormons other than that they exist, they're not a thing here in Germany (that I'm aware of), so thank you for clearing that up.
I did some reading up just now. Holy shit, that Joseph Smith guy was one hell of a gaslighting shitshow. The trump of his time I would even say. Thank you again for the brief introduction that allowed me to look up the rest of that.
That's also how I registered it. "Oh, american culture *needs* you to have a big garage, and an RV, and motorbikes for the kids, or else you failed at life, la-di-da."
Ah, I saw some of those on mission walking around my apartment block today. I wanna let them in only to bet them that every time they read to me from the Book of Mormon they have to take a shot of whiskey. I call it counter-conversion. And it’s a test to see how dedicated they are to the mission
That is why they're so shocked. Sheltered lives. Everybody else with half a brain cell already knows America is made to be a parking lot and is antisocial
But, but... they are serving the lord in their valuable free time to save all those heathen Bavarians from sin :(...
(also, typical for so many outsiders to compare the most frequent tourist spots in addition to being in Bavaria to the rest of Germany or Europe. Some people really can't see beyond their own nose)
I just read a thing saying that going to France was a hardship mission for Mitt Romney cuz he was unlikely to convert anyone while smoking cigarettes and eating the best bread in the world while living in Paris.
Yeah, there are people who do actually get Orlando, but it is about their father's rank in the church and how much money they have.
A reminder that you are required to pay for your travel and living expenses on the mission and the abuses that occur are pretty insane, esp for young women.
I used to be a Mormon, they are by far some of the nicest, kindest and most well meaning people i have ever met till this day.......but also some of the most misogynistic and bat shit crazy in their beliefs. Good thing is even if you dont want to join them they will still come in and help you with chores at a moments notice
I left Judaism cuz of Zionism and its continued genocide against Palestinians... (yes, I know, Judaism and Zionism have nothing to do with each other, but if you criticize Israel in the wrong circles, you find being in a synagogue to be untenable).
This kinda matches what little experience I've had with Mormons. Nice people, kind, helpful, neighborly, a little too proselytizing but still cool with your non-religiousness... And then very different people once your female friend refuses their advances, or you come out as queer. No matter how kind Mormons may be most days, deep down, LDS is still a community-centric religious sect, with all the nasty stuff that entails.
Yep, and if you leave the church there is a high probability of being shunned (tho, I will note, Mormons don't have this as official police like Jehovah's Witnesses or Scientologists, it is more community enforcement of disavowal)
Nope. Fuck the Mormons, fuck organised religion. Helping out with the fucking chores isn't anywhere near enough to make up for all the damage they've done.
As another ex mormon, this. The religion reprograms you to kill your critical thinking, this makes you easily controlable. The other side of the coin, every cult needs a lure or no one would join, and the kindness and community are designed to be that lure, and it works because poeople are so lonely these days.
Then im guessing you are white, and/or dont know any mormons very personally. Because I grew up non mormon in a mormon dominated town, and believe you me, they have no shortage on the ability to hate. The shit they would say to me about other people and then choke on their words when I told them I wasnt part of their cult would turn your stomach.
Helping me do dishes doesn’t erase their war against women. Their violence is their policies. What you report is their presentation. Not their substance. At the end of the day it’s an oppressive sexist hellscape they want for all the world.
I can only report what I have seen from outside, I have never been inside...
I will note that I have never heard anything particularly positive about that inside (other than game night)... esp when it comes to church governance which comes off as pure graft.
Why I think Mormonism is a cult, albite a looser one. If you can't leave the church without leaving your family, too, then that's coercion and the church is abusive.
If I was to design a cult, I'd make sure that they had to be obedient as a family to be reunited in the afterlife. That is exactly how their theology is constructed.
Every LDS person I have met, in the military and civilian life has been kind-hearted, pleasant and just joyful... the management of their religion is a fucking scam, the history of their religion is a fucking scam, the child brides are horrifying, the institutional racism, the discarding of boys to the streets and the Missions which are nothing short of religious imperialism.
The ... is to denote different ADHD thoughts... about different groups of people.
The Mormons that I have met seem to be good people while the religion they are a part of is clearly a scam. Those are different things and the people I have met are not the institution they are a part of. Mormonism is run by 80-year olds who are still annoyed about the changes in 1978.
It is so weird, the dramatic disconnect between how nice the people are and how evil the LDS leadership is... there is no reading of the history of Mormonism that leaves you with anything other than, 'holy shit, this is an extremely violent scam'...
Utah literally went to war with the United States just so they could keep marrying children.... Church Law was 14 years old for girls to get married in the 19th Century (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff were notorious pedophiles).
Preaching to the choir my friend, one of the many reasons I left. I was also falling out of favor with the leadership for voicing my opinions on inequality in the church and helping the women cook and clean up after meals while the men retired to the lounge.
Please note, for completeness, I also believe Thomas Jefferson should be removed from money for his ownership of slaves, but more importantly for his serial rape of Sally Hemmings.
Mormons will be nice and polite to your face, but the majority of them believe that not only will you burn in hell for eternity just for not also being their specific flavour of Mormon, but that you fucking deserve it, too.
This isnt a fact any Christian religion hides, you are condemned at birth. All of them believe this to some degree but ill tell you this, if I had to be stuck in a room with Mormons, catholics or Christians my choice would be Mormons, maybe catholics as I know atleast one of them snuck in beers and cigarettes
So, if you want to have interesting conversations, get into it with Talmudic Scholars... Judaism loves debating the meaning of the Tanakh...
Catholics generally are more concerned with what the Pope told them to think (while rejecting almost all of it for themselves... some 97% of Catholics use birth control).
Interestingly enough Mormons don't believe in a "Original Sin". Babies are born "clean" of sin. Only when someone gets old enough to understand their actions will they be held accountable for them.
Let's ne honest tho, most Christians believe billions of people are going to burn in hell for eternity... Mormons aren't special in that respect.
That being said, I have met dozens of Mormons and they are universally nice people who will give shitloads of their money to groups that will dismantle your civil rights.
I still hold them all accountable for their actions in 2008 and Proposition 8... they are a hateful group.
Eh, the ones I've met have been drug addicts, dealers, and even an attempted murderer so I dunno about your universally nice people thing. Go to Salt Lake City and you'll see tons of criminal Mormons.
I have never set foot in Utah (and have zero plans to do so); the Mormons I have met have mostly been in the US Army and professionally here in Chicago.
So, probably selection biased myself out of the bad Mormons
First, Mormons aren't Christian. They're considered heretics for the same reason they're being trashed in the comments- you can't run a cult that's two parts child abuse and one part child harem and also follow Christ. Second, don't let the televangelists tell you what Christians believe. They have no idea. Walk into any church in your town and ask the priest or pastor. Whatever you believe about Jesus of Nazareth, good people largely live according to his principles- often by coincidence.
How is child abuse and harem not anything but biblical? Abraham had 3 wives, david had 8 wives, Israel had 4 wives, Isaac first started having sex with his wife when she was 3 years old. In Deuteronomy, God himself literally commands his people to take children as sex slaves. You can claim them as not part of Christianity, but first you'll need a meaningful distinction that separates the two.
I know a lot about this so I will say: Mormons don't believe in an eternal hell actually. What most denominations consider hell is what Mormons think of as a temporary "prison". A stuck state of unhappiness and confusion for living a life of sin. Or if someone lived a good life then it's a state of happiness and rest. Until the second coming. After that pretty much everyone is saved baring a few exceptions.
And your wife isnt automatically allowed into your planet, you have to whisper her secrete name she told you when you were wedded in the Mormon Temple, so if you want to be a dick you can threaten her that you won't let her into heaven
ComoSeIguana
Gee, I wish I had money and time to travel.
Roqinn
Amazing how a walkable city makes things closer and more accessible to everyone so that they can mingle! Who would have thought!
Noneurbidnis505
Easy: We're (US) not citizens, we're slaves.
AtlasMorrow
I am a planning commissioner in Virginia for a county with 75,000 people. This is a conversation 100% about ZONING LAW. The US was built with the automobile as an assumed extension of the person. We are past the point of no return, way past it. Society didn’t think about urban sprawl, it just did what felt good.
Now, we are realizing, the piper has his hand outstretched and is looking to get his due.
YippeeKayakOB
European here, could you be more specific, OP? Nobody sits outside in the evening in USA? Genuine question.
ItsJustBluskyandImgrNow
Micro-Mobile.org
DWolf
It helps keep people docile if they're isolated.
Navrodel
It's just walkable cities, man. I had this same experience in Boston a thousand times when I lived there.
You let people live where they work, and let people toss up little stores to cover needs where people live, and you find that people actually go out and do things and make a community.
Zone stuff strictly, so you live in one block, work in another, and do your shopping and eating in a completely separate one from either, and it will be no wonder that everyone just gets delivery.
LongHairDog
Can somebody can explain to a german what he is talking about?
WeAreFriendsNow
This guy probably explains it best:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N">ikes">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Just_Bikes
https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes
itmfa666
We just got back from Europe specifically Switzerland, Germany and Holland. We are soooo far behind in this country. It’s really stunning when you see it first hand. We bomb, they build.
herejusttopointouterrors
late to the game. murica was purposely designed unwalkable so the car companies can make all the monies. it's easy really. everything about the u.s. has money as the driver...no pun intended.
TripleDane
I miss being able to bike to anything. in Denmark i could bike everywhere,, in Texas... not so much
LogicDude
I lived in Munich for 4 years. The area they are in is in the old city center in a dedicated pedestrian zone that falls within the old gates/walls of the city. Very limited car traffic in the immediate area. They also have a fantastically well-developed public transit system of subway (U- & S-Bahn), streetcars, buses, and bike lanes that feed into that area, so yes - it is a fantastic place to go walking, sit and have drinks, dinner, etc. Wish we had that for sure!
KT8819
I have been living in Germany for nearly 10 years now, and while there plenty of places like this in Europe, there are also many places that are remote and don't have anything like this. I hate these comparisons, because its apples and oranges. There are also plenty of places like this in the US as well, its just more spread out than Europe, understandably
OrkenMork
I live in a suburb of a major US city (36 miles away) and there's a town center about 5 miles away. It's the hub of the county I live in. Every friday, they shut down the main street and open up the government center parking garages for free parking. People come from miles away to park in the two garages and spend the evening walking through the street, moving from shop to shop, restaurant to bar to whatever...it's a wonderful evening. Then on the first friday of the month, it's more of the same
thisistheusernamethatneverendss
He’s in the center of Munich and he’s comparing it to his suburban neighborhood? Try comparing it to any large city in America and you can find similar areas
bob2the2nd24
You left out the incredibly reasonable prices to go out to eat. Me and wife would spend $50( €45) all in for 4 drinks and 2 entrees. Often got a free small dessert (or schnapps)
lurkingforeternity
And Munich is one of the most expensive cities in Germany.
CelestialSea
All of Germany I saw is like this, Bonn/Koln mostly, but also around Stuttgart a bit, and everywhere else in Europe that I visited as well (Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg). Sweden is even better. They have 'garden cafes' there which is a hobby farm, a few acres, where you can sit in the garden, drink coffee, eat some tasty baked goods, and watch your kids play.
This is what happens when you support the middle class! They have money to spend.
SmellingMistake
Fussgaengerzones are common in German cities, not just a Munich thing.
ExceptFluffyDuck
*Europe. France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Austria, Denmark... They are ubiquitous.
LogicDude
Pretty much every city and quite a few small towns had them as well. I was just pointing out that particular spot in Munich where they are is that way mainly due to it being in a historical area of the inner city. Hofbräuhaus is in the opposite direction from where they were headed!
nclu
I went with my wife for Oktoberfest a few years ago, was something I always wanted to do. The Schweinshaxe at Hoffbrauhaus is amazing be of her very favorite things
SmellingMistake
Oh I figured you knew since you had lived there. Was mainly just letting other readers who aren't familiar with Germany know.
ForceAwakenWasLame
Won’t someone think of the oil companies /s
kInADress
Yes, your zoning laws are just absolutely fucked in a lot of places
SodomySnake
I mean, yeah, if you walk around in suburbia, of course you aren't gonna find a bunch of restaurants. You gotta walk around the places where the restaurants are, which *do* exist here. Go to pretty much any medium-sized city and there'll be a downtown area with restaurants and bars and quirky bookshops and, like, specialty houseplant shops and stores where they sell board games you never heard of and bullshit like that. Greenvile, SC; Asheville, NC; Little 5 Points, Atlanta, GA; to name a few.>>
bekkayya
the difference is that we have tiny pockets of space where its like that and for them its so everywhere its inconcievable a space where thats not the case
nero4ty2
People in general tend to think all of the us looks like that one image that always get posted when “stroads” are brought up. There are 5 towns around me in the burbs that have very walkable downtowns but the further you get away from a city center the less walkable anything becomes, that goes for the us, Europe, Africa, Asia, basically the entire world
SewerRanger
I live in a midsized (smallish large city?) and what he's describing is my neighborhood. We've got dozens of restaurants and bars and three parks, etc all within a mile that are full of people every night. These people live in suburbia and then complain that is not like a city center...
SodomySnake
And I'll add, these are walkable distance from traditional neighborhoods - some of which even feature semi-affordable houses.
somebackup
You can't have this whole also insisting on massive lot with yard etc. This works because people are in flats and want to go to third places to hang out
usernametakenisthestoryofmylife
Are you telling me Germans are social?
irisewithredeyes
Tourism season... many of those people are not Germans, LOL...
sitenickname
Get a beer in them and yeah, until it's bedtime at least. Time is very important there and must be followed to the minute.
azimir
Somehow Deutsche Bahn got a blanket exemption to that, but otherwise it's a really big deal.
Woogyface
usually we're very social. excepts me. i'm 100% compressed hermit sauce
MCNewYorkLives
Everyone keeps pointing fingers at various things to blame "it's boomers" "it's the govt that doesn't care" "it's capitalism", etc. the real issue is something else...timing. the main reason so many European countries have these tight knit, walkable cities/areas, is because the areas were essentially constructed/inhabited before ease of transportation was a thing. So, as the country industrialized, it had to fit the established population and cities.
MCNewYorkLives
Compare that to America where a large portion of the country was established AFTER ease of transportation, meaning things were able to be more spread out. Here, industrialization resulted in cities/population being fit around it (rather than the other way around like in Europe).
helkafen
This is a myth. American cities used to be relatively dense, more like European cities. Then they got bulldozed for highways in the name of modernity, especially black neighbourhoods. See the before/after images of Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cbbFziI9o8. They were similar plans for European cities, and they faced more resistance.
Unfortunate500
Comparing suburbs to urban areas and discovering they differ...shocking!
fake40nedeso
Exactly. I would assume that down town any bigger settlement or one that is a regional centre has at least one or two streets/corners/blocks/houses like that. Come on. Even my <= 10000 people country side'ish town had its bars and restaurants.
ToenailClippingsJar
Question though.. are they filled to the rim at a Wednesday? Not saying you don’t have it. At all.
But there’s a difference between having and using, especially when you see this used a LOT.
Madone7
LOL, but they have an RV and four car garage. Wonder how we got this way.... Dumbass.
garbuhj
That was their exact point, they were pointing out how wrong the lifestyle they bought into is
youreathing
Suburbs are designed like this on purpose. Developers maximize their revenue by buying massive single plots of land and building on them.
fractalsphere
...'where she ran her mission'...? Was she evangelical annoying people overseas?
LateNightBunnyParty
Most likely
rowzdowr
That's definitely Mormon vernacular. Evangelicals will usually say "where I served" or call it an outreach.
FloatingOnACloudOfTitties
Probably Mormon.
TheVillageGrouch9000
Four car garage? RV bay?
EverNotRelevant
Suburbs fucking suck. They exist because of white people fleeing cities, the street plans suck, they're parasitic on the cities they claim to hate, the sprawl and waste they create is hostile to the environment, cars are required to reach anywhere of interest in a timely manner... There's very little positive to say about them.
FloatingOnACloudOfTitties
That’s also how HOAs started: white flight.
DWolf
Also, people who served in WWII & had been less fortunate (Italians, Poles, Jews, Slavs, Irish) fled crowded tenements & ethnic-designated neighborhoods. US cities don't have open space like these in videos. In the US, owning land & a house was a dream to the children & grandchildren of immigrants, especially those sold a vision of smalltown America.
I covered (reporter) a neighborhood rebuilding meeting. Residents said when they moved in (1950s-1970s), people knew each other and interacted. 1/2
DWolf
The houses were built 1950s-1970s, and people knew each other and interacted. The older folks blamed tv, electronics, no interactions, and no one new buying houses for the decline. White flight was a symptom, but we built it brick by brick.
nero4ty2
Just off the top of my head cities like Boston, nyc, providence, Portland (both of them) Denver, Seattle, San Diego, San Francisco all have certain parts that are very walkable but also have more business centric areas and industrial areas. Look up Munich, it is not all like this, just certain parts that are mostly touristy to encourage people to visit
bippityboppitybuttsex
BTW, this is what happens when a govt feels it exists to serve the people and not eight billionaires.
Christmas in Munchen is cool, esp the Glühwein (warm spiced red wine), and it really fucking pretty and I am a Jewish kid who was in Europe on US Army dime.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I will note that USARUER banned us from going to Munchen during Octoberfest, cuz can't have drunk soldiers, who would even know what could happen if a soldier experienced alcohol.
SmellingMistake
I grew up with his. Didn't really appreciate it at the time, but I miss it now.
Dybidude5
The German government still serves a lot to rich people, sometimes trying to be a little American. But it's far from being that dystopian as the real US. But you will only find a few people who are "proud" of our nation and jerking on the flag everyday...
bippityboppitybuttsex
I think patriotism is inherently gross.
I spent 10 years in the US Army (my active duty time in Bavaria), I joined to pay for college and I got to drag a machinegun around the mud of Hohenfels.
That being said, I have no particularly love for one country or another, I was born in the US, and I live here, but I am not particularly proud of something I am only a part of by accident. Do I like living here? Sure, it's fine... but I am mostly just afraid of what the country will do to people.
tex65
Yes. Boomers fucked it up, then moved to communities like "The Village". Enjoying walkable communities while we deal with their mess
Artoris
It was Boomers great, great, grandparents.
YpsilantiRomani
It was part of the white flight that created our modern suburbia
FloatingOnACloudOfTitties
White flight is what created HOAs: the bane of suburban life.
livingonagiantfireball
Its not just thay, people cant go out to restaurent spend money when they have nothing to spend because american policy strangle people financially
Alexap30
Boomers are for a lot to blame, but not for this. Boomers exist in every continent and country. Only the US is fucked in such a degree. The actual problem is rampant capitalism. And you know it's capitalism because American capitalists are making so much money that European and Asian capitalists try to copy them, even though we see the US falling apart right before our eyes. Capitalists taught you that your only worth is work and you have to survive just so you can get back to work.
aesaclub
I absolutely hate to hear asian friends talk about American fastfood and coffee chains like I should know wtf they are even talking about. We (in Sweden) have been able to push back on that U.S. invasion thanks to strong unions and local food culture.
Starbucks failed horribly here. Five Guys just opened and everyone hates it. Every U.S. chain here is worse than anything local and IMO they only survive in other countries because they exploit workers and skip on quality.
We don't need "cheap".
Alexap30
The moment they strip you of your human worth, having fun, socializing, walking among strangers are all threats to your survival. Trans will get you, gays will get you, immigrants will get you. And if not them, then probably you are on the opposite team and ICE will get you. You have to be afraid. You have to survive. You have to consume. You have to work. You are not human. You are a cog in their machine.
Luffian
Boomers were literal babies when it got fucked up.
tex65
I suppose you have a point. Car lobbying really screwed American communities. However I would point out that NIMBY was big with boomers. Furthering the issue
foreverinchains
When they were literal babies, their parents were enjoying some of the best times for workers your country has ever seen. As they grew up, they also benefited from those same social benefits, but as they grew older, they began working to pull the ladder up behind them to protect their own investments with no concern for how many people suffered as a result.
They're absolutely the generation of "fuck you, got mine".
Luffian
Right, sure. Doesn't make them responsible for starting the suburban hellscape that dominates the US.
foreverinchains
Did they start the problem?
No, of course not.
Did they gleefully make it much, much worse?
Absolutely.
They fed their kids bullshit promises about how bright their futures would be while they actively worked to destroy the possibility of such a future for everyone that comes after them.
Cearnaigh
The car/oil lobby was in full swing at that point, misinformation was already everywhere. Most of them also didn't have the money to affect any real change. It is wild how we are fine with blaming corporations and billionaires with all the shit that happens today but put the blame on Joe Schmuck and Jane Everyperson from that era.
Child rapist in chief is a boomer, yes. Should future generations blame the current ones, and only those, for letting him get away with everything? Is it that shallow?
sitenickname
4 (5 and 6) lane streets lined with strip malls, gas stations and Walmarts. That's Americana having stripped any and all quirky fun and individualism from every town across the land and rolled up the sidewalks too.
DildoMussolini
Love leaving a parking lot and having to floor it so I don't get obliterated in the stroad
bippityboppitybuttsex
As soon as he said, 'where Jen served her mission' I instantly hated these people.
Djones06236
I'm completely against missionaries. It's unethical. People should come to you.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Evangelism is the problem; the premise that your religion is right and everyone else is a thicky thicky dumb dumb who needs to be corrected.
It is a hateful ideology that has its roots in imperial racism. The gall of someone to tell another that their religion is wrong and yours is right. They should try that at their American workplace and see what happens to them.
Fun Fact, if HR will fire you on the spot for it, you should prob not go to another country and do it.
bloodfuck
it's the same feeling I have now when I see an american flag. I didn't used to feel this way... but now? I see an american flag and feel a surge of hatred flash through me - not towards the flag itself of course... but the people flying it. because over the last 10yrs the vast majority of people flying an american flag have been racist, sexist, homophobic, brainwashed maga fucks who don't care about america but only care about "owning the libs" at all costs.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I spent 10 years in the US Army, wrote a blank check to every American, and now, when I see someone waving an American flag, I ask myself how much they hate black people.
Kittenman15
Yeah .. I picked that up...
dellyx12
I just assumed he meant she was in the military, but I'm European, what do I know.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I highly doubt she was in NAVEUR or USAREUR... they do not look like they were in 3/325 PIR or 173rd ABN BGDE in Vincenza
A note that rich people tend not to let their kids fight in the wars they vote to send poor kids to die in.
tinyfootprints
Idk what the implication is here. Who serves "missions"? From other comments, I get that it has something to do with the church. I'm from a Muslim country and don't know about church stuff.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, Islam is more than 1300 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man; Christianity is 2000 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man; Judaism is about 3200 years old and speaks of kindness and caring for your fellow man.
Mormonism is almost 200 years old and spends its time investing in mining operations and has amassed some $200B in investment income and promises young men their own planet if they can populate it.
tinyfootprints
What does that have to do with "missions"? I'm aware that the three Abrahamic religions are about kindness and caring, but I can't relate the concept of "missions" to this post. That's what I'm asking about.
bippityboppitybuttsex
My point is that most religions basically boil down to, 'don't be a selfish piece of shit' and Mormonism (and the Prosperity Gospel) are like, 'nah, fuck that'
The Missions are to convert people. That's it. They are also a key part of a cult.
See, people are confused and think they are the purpose of the mission, to be converted, but it is the people on the mission who are the intended audience. To send them blind, into the world, to be rejected, over and over again... this is to remind...
bippityboppitybuttsex
... and reinforce that the only safe place is inside the cult.
The constant rejection and slamming doors and being chased away strengthens the in-group identity; it validates the persecution narrative and enforces a high-cost commitment, it forces the casual followers to give up.
The Rejection is the purpose... and religious imperialism.
battleofhastings1066
Came here to say this.
Gibleteousjack
Everyone got a favorite position.
CorgisButtsDriveMeNuts
Man, I was looking for Doug Stanhope's bit where he talks about meeting other americans while abroad, and how quickly he feels ashamed to be placed in the same category with them, but to no avail :/
Harm
Thank you, in the flow I thought she had been in the military.
PorneliusHubertII
Bit on the other hand, they are out in the world, expanding their view and could likely end up breaking the cults hold on them. I see this video as someone opening their eyes to something new.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Narrator: They just doubled down twice as hard on their cult and financed hate campaigns around the world.
kEMup
Same…
dixxienormus
The mission was a nocturnal e-Mission.
Scattercat
Missionaries to... Italy. Where ROME is. I'm pretty sure they've fucking heard about Jesus, guys, you can wrap that one up.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yes, but not their version of Jesus in America... and the Celestial Kingdom where you can get your own planet.
ParaBellumOutfitters
How convenient they were assigned teh place where they had to give up....no conviences. The 4 car garage comment is a punch in the stomach too. Summering in Leipzig or wherever when at least some poor kid could have gotten more use out of the experience.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I joined the US Army after college to pay my student loans off; got to spend the next few years in Bavaria (Hohenfels) playing in the mud while training NATO on how to do peacekeeping operations.
Wasn't bad, we had two BMWs in the driveway (aka the reason why I will never buy another BMW) and a nice house in the country.
Probablyimaginary
If only the folks there came over to America to fix it. Reverse Uno style...
bippityboppitybuttsex
The thing is, it is mostly Christians who are rude enough to invade another country and try to tell them that their deeply held religious beliefs are wrong.
OutOfTheHat
nah, they would call it socialism.
TanithRosenbaum
What does that statement mean exactly? What kind of mission?
Cloud423
escort
ExceptFluffyDuck
Ford Escort
bippityboppitybuttsex
Their church sent them to Italy to convert Catholics into Mormons by telling them that their religion is wrong and only Mormons are right.
They got sent to Italy instead of Uganda or Suriname because their parents are rich and made sure they lived in luxury while wasting their time annoying Italians.
TanithRosenbaum
Ahh it's a mormon thing. Thank you. I don't really know much about mormons other than that they exist, they're not a thing here in Germany (that I'm aware of), so thank you for clearing that up.
bippityboppitybuttsex
They are a New World religion developed in the 1820s by a con man.
I would like to note, that that statement is not speculative or pejorative, we have Joseph Smith's arrest records for fraud.
TanithRosenbaum
I did some reading up just now. Holy shit, that Joseph Smith guy was one hell of a gaslighting shitshow. The trump of his time I would even say. Thank you again for the brief introduction that allowed me to look up the rest of that.
SmellingMistake
Yep, and then hate them even more as they go on about how important it is to have a 4-car garage with a RV bay.
akambe
Spoiler: They were being sarcastic.
notomhax
I think the point they were making is America forces this car mentality. It felt like hyperbole. But maybe I'm over thinking it.
INeedMoreGifMeMoreJustOneMore
That's also how I registered it. "Oh, american culture *needs* you to have a big garage, and an RV, and motorbikes for the kids, or else you failed at life, la-di-da."
imnotinthewitnessprotectionprogram
Who the fuck serves a mission in Italy??? Come-on team let’s go convert the Catholics
SquirtVonnegut
Why do you think they do missions in Latin America? Missionaries only ever go to Catholic communities to establish a foothold.
OrionJC
Mormons, specifically wealth family Mormons, so the kids don't have to go to a 3rd world country/etc.
imnotinthewitnessprotectionprogram
Ah, I saw some of those on mission walking around my apartment block today. I wanna let them in only to bet them that every time they read to me from the Book of Mormon they have to take a shot of whiskey. I call it counter-conversion. And it’s a test to see how dedicated they are to the mission
bippityboppitybuttsex
As soon as you engage you get put into their book, you are going to get even more visits.
FormerlySable
I knew a Baptist guy who wanted to start a church in Michigan because, as he said with disgust, “there are a lot of Catholics up there.”
queernosaur
Lmao it was the exact moment when I was like "that's why your vibe felt off" and scrolled down to the comments
JustAnInternetPerson
If you judge people based on their "vibes" you're not much better than the people on this video.
bippityboppitybuttsex
'Vibes' is just a way of describing the unspoken body language and mannerisms that warn you as to their true nature.
queernosaur
Or simply something that doesn't align with your own vibe/preferences in social company
queernosaur
Okay :)
DildoMussolini
That's stupid. You have a stupid idiot vibe.
DickTipPapercut
That is why they're so shocked. Sheltered lives. Everybody else with half a brain cell already knows America is made to be a parking lot and is antisocial
tellyourdogilovethem
Capitalism is imploding all around us and that just causes us to double down on individualism and be more antisocial. I hate this timeline
jtwood
Crazy how fast that phrase can turn a conversation
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yep... I did listen on, but that stopped me in my tracks.
Also, you can determine how much of a nepo-baby someone is when you see where they did their mission... Mitt Romney did his in France, e.g.
If you are a poor Mormon, you get Uganda (and have to pay your own way, good luck!)
Jackpot7777777
The four car garage was a bit of a giveaway.
bippityboppitybuttsex
That is just rich people.
Zunderfeuer
But, but... they are serving the lord in their valuable free time to save all those heathen Bavarians from sin :(...
(also, typical for so many outsiders to compare the most frequent tourist spots in addition to being in Bavaria to the rest of Germany or Europe. Some people really can't see beyond their own nose)
bippityboppitybuttsex
They are doing it because it is required by their church.
An action you do because you think it is required to get into the Celestial Kingdom is not an act of selflessness.
Zunderfeuer
I am aware, I know people who grew up in US Churches/cults. Despicable
imsurroundedbyassholes
Hasa Diga Eebowai
bippityboppitybuttsex
I just read a thing saying that going to France was a hardship mission for Mitt Romney cuz he was unlikely to convert anyone while smoking cigarettes and eating the best bread in the world while living in Paris.
SmellingMistake
Yeah, going on a mission to Italy of all places is really just an very thinly veiled excuse for a long vacation.
landbaronness42
Wow just like the play (Book of Mormon)
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yeah, there are people who do actually get Orlando, but it is about their father's rank in the church and how much money they have.
A reminder that you are required to pay for your travel and living expenses on the mission and the abuses that occur are pretty insane, esp for young women.
Kilo11
I used to be a Mormon, they are by far some of the nicest, kindest and most well meaning people i have ever met till this day.......but also some of the most misogynistic and bat shit crazy in their beliefs. Good thing is even if you dont want to join them they will still come in and help you with chores at a moments notice
Bobdole010
I was baptized Mormon back in the 90s, then I learned I couldnt drink coffee, and I said I'm out
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, that is a weird reason to leave a community.
I left Judaism cuz of Zionism and its continued genocide against Palestinians... (yes, I know, Judaism and Zionism have nothing to do with each other, but if you criticize Israel in the wrong circles, you find being in a synagogue to be untenable).
Kilo11
All excuses are valid, a person must stand up, draw a line that must not be crossed, they did that, their line was coffee
bippityboppitybuttsex
TBH, I have friends whose line was 'holy shit this is dumb'
And yeah, that reason is valid.... cuz wow, it is dumb.
HardTimeKillinFoulNews
This kinda matches what little experience I've had with Mormons. Nice people, kind, helpful, neighborly, a little too proselytizing but still cool with your non-religiousness... And then very different people once your female friend refuses their advances, or you come out as queer. No matter how kind Mormons may be most days, deep down, LDS is still a community-centric religious sect, with all the nasty stuff that entails.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yep, and if you leave the church there is a high probability of being shunned (tho, I will note, Mormons don't have this as official police like Jehovah's Witnesses or Scientologists, it is more community enforcement of disavowal)
BeachsideBarghest
Nope. Fuck the Mormons, fuck organised religion. Helping out with the fucking chores isn't anywhere near enough to make up for all the damage they've done.
NairouTryyshokk
As another ex mormon, this. The religion reprograms you to kill your critical thinking, this makes you easily controlable. The other side of the coin, every cult needs a lure or no one would join, and the kindness and community are designed to be that lure, and it works because poeople are so lonely these days.
stonecw
Not a mormon ... can confirm ... all of this.
HandsomePenguin
Putting on a veneer of kindness does not make a person kind. LDS hates you if you arent one of them. HATES. They just pretend to be nice.
notomhax
This is simply broad overgeneralizing. I have not met a single Mormon that hates like this.
HandsomePenguin
Then im guessing you are white, and/or dont know any mormons very personally. Because I grew up non mormon in a mormon dominated town, and believe you me, they have no shortage on the ability to hate. The shit they would say to me about other people and then choke on their words when I told them I wasnt part of their cult would turn your stomach.
Eyeetsass
Helping me do dishes doesn’t erase their war against women. Their violence is their policies. What you report is their presentation. Not their substance. At the end of the day it’s an oppressive sexist hellscape they want for all the world.
Kilo11
While they exist, might as well help with laundry
bippityboppitybuttsex
I can only report what I have seen from outside, I have never been inside...
I will note that I have never heard anything particularly positive about that inside (other than game night)... esp when it comes to church governance which comes off as pure graft.
wolfbro86
A Mormon is someone who will tell every gay person, with complete love in their heart, that they are going to hell.
Kilo11
Te be fair straight people go to hell too, hell is an equal opportunity employer
bippityboppitybuttsex
Hell doesn't exist.
Kilo11
We won't really know till we get there
lurkerthatoccationallywantstocomment
As an ex Mormon, I find it perfunctory and shallow. Kind to your face, stab you in the back if it benefits LD$ Inc.
And if you are in a Mormon family and not playing the part, well then you are fucked and they will literally turn their backs to you
Kilo11
scrumbles666
Why I think Mormonism is a cult, albite a looser one. If you can't leave the church without leaving your family, too, then that's coercion and the church is abusive.
lurkerthatoccationallywantstocomment
If I was to design a cult, I'd make sure that they had to be obedient as a family to be reunited in the afterlife. That is exactly how their theology is constructed.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Every LDS person I have met, in the military and civilian life has been kind-hearted, pleasant and just joyful... the management of their religion is a fucking scam, the history of their religion is a fucking scam, the child brides are horrifying, the institutional racism, the discarding of boys to the streets and the Missions which are nothing short of religious imperialism.
BeachsideBarghest
Did you read anything you wrote after "..." ?!? Yet every one of them is "kind-hearted, pleasant and just joyful" apparently.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I did.
The ... is to denote different ADHD thoughts... about different groups of people.
The Mormons that I have met seem to be good people while the religion they are a part of is clearly a scam. Those are different things and the people I have met are not the institution they are a part of. Mormonism is run by 80-year olds who are still annoyed about the changes in 1978.
Kilo11
It perfectly explains why im so kind hearted and pleasant
bippityboppitybuttsex
It is so weird, the dramatic disconnect between how nice the people are and how evil the LDS leadership is... there is no reading of the history of Mormonism that leaves you with anything other than, 'holy shit, this is an extremely violent scam'...
Utah literally went to war with the United States just so they could keep marrying children.... Church Law was 14 years old for girls to get married in the 19th Century (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff were notorious pedophiles).
Kilo11
Preaching to the choir my friend, one of the many reasons I left. I was also falling out of favor with the leadership for voicing my opinions on inequality in the church and helping the women cook and clean up after meals while the men retired to the lounge.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Please note, for completeness, I also believe Thomas Jefferson should be removed from money for his ownership of slaves, but more importantly for his serial rape of Sally Hemmings.
foreverinchains
Mormons will be nice and polite to your face, but the majority of them believe that not only will you burn in hell for eternity just for not also being their specific flavour of Mormon, but that you fucking deserve it, too.
Religion is poison.
Even the modern, sanitized, "nice" ones.
Keystonelight
So brave
Kilo11
This isnt a fact any Christian religion hides, you are condemned at birth. All of them believe this to some degree but ill tell you this, if I had to be stuck in a room with Mormons, catholics or Christians my choice would be Mormons, maybe catholics as I know atleast one of them snuck in beers and cigarettes
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, if you want to have interesting conversations, get into it with Talmudic Scholars... Judaism loves debating the meaning of the Tanakh...
Catholics generally are more concerned with what the Pope told them to think (while rejecting almost all of it for themselves... some 97% of Catholics use birth control).
Kilo11
Yeah, thats what I said in less words, catholics know how to party
notomhax
Interestingly enough Mormons don't believe in a "Original Sin". Babies are born "clean" of sin. Only when someone gets old enough to understand their actions will they be held accountable for them.
n0gal
While partly true, that ends when you get baptized, and Mormon's famously baptize the dead against their will.
foreverinchains
All Mormons and Catholics are Christian by definition.
There are over 40,000 distinct sects of Christianity, and every one of them is just as Christian as all the rest.
On top of that, you have huge variation in beliefs between different churches in the same sect, and even between individuals in a single church.
Saying you'd pick a Mormon over a Christian is like saying you'd prefer a Honda Civic over a car.
Kilo11
Si or type R ? Either way I'll take the civic
bippityboppitybuttsex
Let's ne honest tho, most Christians believe billions of people are going to burn in hell for eternity... Mormons aren't special in that respect.
That being said, I have met dozens of Mormons and they are universally nice people who will give shitloads of their money to groups that will dismantle your civil rights.
I still hold them all accountable for their actions in 2008 and Proposition 8... they are a hateful group.
fartser
Eh, the ones I've met have been drug addicts, dealers, and even an attempted murderer so I dunno about your universally nice people thing. Go to Salt Lake City and you'll see tons of criminal Mormons.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I have never set foot in Utah (and have zero plans to do so); the Mormons I have met have mostly been in the US Army and professionally here in Chicago.
So, probably selection biased myself out of the bad Mormons
Kappa043
First, Mormons aren't Christian. They're considered heretics for the same reason they're being trashed in the comments- you can't run a cult that's two parts child abuse and one part child harem and also follow Christ. Second, don't let the televangelists tell you what Christians believe. They have no idea. Walk into any church in your town and ask the priest or pastor. Whatever you believe about Jesus of Nazareth, good people largely live according to his principles- often by coincidence.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Fun Fact, if you call yourself a Christian, you are a Christian.
If you call yourself a Christian, you also don't get to call others not Christians... cuz you immediately fall into a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.
... and I don't get to claim Christians that call Mathew 'woke nonsense' aren't Christians. They are probably the most American Christians.
foreverinchains
Every denomination is heretical to most other denominations.
Mormons are just as Christian as the Episcopalians and Westboro Baptists.
I'll also point out that child rape is extremely common in the bible, and God directly ordered virgin girls be taken as sex slaves after a genocide.
You're making an argument based entirely on the no true Scotsman fallacy.
n0gal
How is child abuse and harem not anything but biblical? Abraham had 3 wives, david had 8 wives, Israel had 4 wives, Isaac first started having sex with his wife when she was 3 years old. In Deuteronomy, God himself literally commands his people to take children as sex slaves. You can claim them as not part of Christianity, but first you'll need a meaningful distinction that separates the two.
notomhax
I know a lot about this so I will say: Mormons don't believe in an eternal hell actually. What most denominations consider hell is what Mormons think of as a temporary "prison". A stuck state of unhappiness and confusion for living a life of sin. Or if someone lived a good life then it's a state of happiness and rest. Until the second coming. After that pretty much everyone is saved baring a few exceptions.
foreverinchains
Yeah, you burn in hell until you accept Mormonism, and then you get your own planet to rule or whatever silly bullshit they came up with.
Maybe Jesus can sort all these different denominations out once he gets back from the made-up.
garbuhj
I think you're confusing mormonism with scientology
lezgetfukkinreal
And your wife isnt automatically allowed into your planet, you have to whisper her secrete name she told you when you were wedded in the Mormon Temple, so if you want to be a dick you can threaten her that you won't let her into heaven