Secretary of Education Linda McMahon says as early as elementary school, students should be put on a pathway to skills rather than forced towards education. – Who knew kids would have electric shocks and plumber's butts to look forward to.
She's completely full of shit. I went to a school that had home-ec to learn cooking, sewing, welding classes and electrical. I guarantee all of those have been shut down due to budget cuts. Any federal funding for those programs is now being funneled towards dropping bombs on poor people. How the fuck does she expect schools to teach any of those skills when the whole reason for her appointment was to destroy the department she now heads?
As a union tradesman I’m currently making approximately $225K a year on this specific job. I learned my trade as an apprentice with a military program called Helmets to Hardhats about 20 years ago.
Yeah we need more young people in the trades, at the same time I want my taxes going towards public education, better pay for teachers, smaller class sizes, lower costs for a college degree, publicly funded healthcare, the end of insurance companies.
She is. A female wrestler expressed interest in starting a union in the WWE, and she was fired within MINUTES of the tweet going out. Kevin Nash still talks about forming a pro-wrestlers' union, and interestingly, arguing pro-wrestlers should be eligible to join SAG/AFTRA.
I wish more of our schools actually taught critical thinking. "Use your critical thinking skills" gets tossed around a whole helluva lot, and I think MOST people saying that think it just means, "think real hard about the thing," and it absolutely does not. It's a whole process. It's not a natural thing to do, and it must be learned. Which means it must be taught.
MAGAt want the caste system in the USA combined with serfdom and share cropping. The country wont waste their time trying to educate the children of laborers but give them the tools they need for what they are "naturally inclined" to do, a shovel and a back brace. Get digging. "God decided what you were allowed to do with your life before you were born you little ingrate. We know best."
Lol, I'm a union electrician, and at least half my coworkers have some sort of college degree. And all of us have to go through what amounts to a trade school. Get off your high horse.
Yep, that is a stereotype, just about everywhere else in the world trades people are educated, highly respected, and earn good livings. I actually think that the POS education secretary is right about this. The US needs more trades people and they need to get rid of stereotype that comes along with it. It just would be great if they adopted a European model on Healthcare as well
Thanks for saying this - I don’t agree with her capitalist calculus - but I do think our school system needs to be better about exposing kids to multiple career pathways, including the trades. I do like a broad education as a base, but you can often make pretty good money in the trades. And yes the perception & respect of trade pathways needs to radically shift too.
I'm surprised she didn't just say the old Nixon line: College-educated professionals generally have more critical thinking skills and end up voting democrat. We need lower-skill people to work in the factories, paycheck to paycheck so they are easier to control.
I'm an electrician working my whole life as maintenance and automation specialist. The fact I haven't gone to college means jack shit. I know engineers after college that know half of the practical knowledge I have. To many times I had to stop a guy after uni from destroying tools or the thing they're working on. I agree with your sentiment but in this case it's misplaced. Finishing highschool is not uneducated. I must say I even agree on some points with the woman in the video.
As a trades person I find that very insulting. We are highly skilled in what we do. It takes years of training and experience to become a good tradesperson. And in Canada we earn more than college graduates.
Of course she would say that, on behalf of the wealthy. The last thing any elite class wants is people with the critical thinking skills necessary to challenge policies that disproportionately favor one class over everyone else. And those skills are not nearly as likely to be found in trade schools, as much aa they teach valuable things.
She means poor kids... make poor people's kids plumbers and electricians... and while you are at it, make those jobs lower paying so they are too busy trying to afford food and rent to bother to push back against the authoritarian regime... but rich people's kids should get all the perks and benefits of the finest education so they will have access to all the high paying jobs... thats what she means. That and only that. Fuck the poor people, give all the benefits to the rich is their mantra.
Steering kids into educational paths based on assumptions about their ability related to race, socioeconomic background, and other similar factors is called Tracking and is unethical if not illegal, and doesn't help kids succeed nor does it help society fill employment gaps.
I'm an electrical superintendent. I don't need illiterate fuckwits that can't do math or think critically. I need educated people who can turn theory into a physical product. The kids i get are less and less prepared for the real world and the fact is that I use what I learned in school every damn day.
Both her children went to Boston University. Highly selective, with an overall acceptance rate of roughly 11%. Full-time undergraduates is $95,334 to $98,419 per year.
Vince McMann is a terrible person, there is no question about that. However he and to a much lesser extent his dad, really did build their wealth from nothing.
Was it on the backs and broken bodies of exploited contractors with no healthcare, yes, but he worked his ass off to exploit those workers and make himself a billionaire, and a lot of them millionaires to boot.
did linda do any of that? No, shes just a terrible person.
People like her believe they are inherently different and better than others because of their wealth. In her eyes *they are naturally superior and would have been in the "upper tier" regardless. So it's okay *they don't do what they suggest for others.
As a former science teacher I’d argue that is more a condemnation of colleges and for profit education systems.
Financial factors aside I think it should be considered AT LEAST as important that every person learns some practical skill(s) (like plumbing, welding, culinary arts, sewing, etc) as part of a general education as say art, 2nd languages, or higher math.
That’s not to diminish the value of any of those facets of education, rather to anchor & support them as all important.
You're just a likely or more likely to lose your college savings.
It's best to find a more conservative financial vehicle to save for your kid's college than thinking the average person is "getting into trades" and will make enough for college tuition. Most will lose unless extremely lucky.
I think you have a mistaken impression how how much money people make in the trades. An apprentice Electrician is going to earn 25-30/hour for 3-4 years until they earn their journeyman cert then it jumps to 40-50/hour
If you can't save up for college as a 18-22 year old making 45000-50,000 a year you are making some interesting choices in life.
I believe the issue here is the two of you are reading "trades" differently. Lord and Stranded are reading "trades" as employment in plumbing, electrical, carpentry, and construction, Deviant, on the other hand, is reading "trades" as stock-trading and speculative investment. By your own individual interpretations, you are each, independently, correct. By the other's, you are obviously wrong.
School, elementary School especially, Is for laying the groundwork so a student can later choose what path of study to pursue. Kind of hard to be in a trade if you can't read.
I'll start. I studied molecular bio in undergrad and took a bunch of humanities including art history. I loved math. I was drawn to science, poetry, philosophy, sports, woodworking. I went to med school. Ended up in maintenance work after doing about 20 other jobs. Kids don't have a single 'natural inclination' and half of what adults think it is is whatever they've projected onto them. A good education contributes to a good life, regardless of how you fit into the capitalism machine.
Thank you for that wonderful response. It sounds like you've had quite a journey and I love that. One of the things that pisses me off so much about education and the system we've built for ourselves is how we tend to push young people to decide their whole futures by like 20. I think that's such a disservice. How may 20 yr olds have a damned clue what they want to do with their lives? I sure didn't. I was always jealous of those kids that were so sure they wanted to be this or that.
I started as an electrician after the Marines, you need MATH skills, to be an electrician. That was over 20 years ago. Moving up in my career, I have supervised, instructed, and on and on. A broad education is required to move up in any career. What she is saying is we need poor people to dig ditches until they die...as long as they can vote.
Please don’t misconstrue. The trades are awesome, necessary, and I love helping young adults go down that path, but I wouldn’t start pushing them in any type of direction at a young age. It’s called “general education.”
I watched the whole clip, so my grasp of the concept is better than yours. She’s talking about taking kids out of general education. And she’s wrong to suggest it wont serve them. And you’re a lying troll
Ok I retract that, however if you’re planning on raising a generation of tradespeople, you’re going to be gearing the curriculum towards that end. In my mind, that will mean eliminating things that do not contribute to that goal so you can fit more shop time or whatever in. “Playing music gives these kids wild ideas.” “Well, let’s dump that!”
Why not both? Fuck her and she certainly won't accomplish anything positive. But education has had an issue of disauding trades routes and not treating it as an academic field. Modern trades require plenty of math and other fundamentals. North America is desperately short of trades people and a renewed focus is needed on it. That doesn't mean taking away from higher education though. We can walk and chew bubblegum.
"so let's provide the kind of education for them get them into pathways toward that education starting, you know, even in elementary, middle schools, high school" is a quote from this clip. She suggests, point blank, starting them on a non-college trade path in ELEMENTARY school. What about that, to you, suggests other than moving away from general education?\
She is from the era of 'tracks.' Girls tracked into home ec and sewing instead of calc or shop. Kids with ADD tracked into shop and basic math. She wants to bring back a system that perpetuates class division. Maybe it's not doing away with gen ed, but it's impoverishing it for most students.
She also said develop the skills children have a natural propensity for. Propensity means: an often intense natural inclination or preference. That means giving kids access to the kinds of curriculums they will be interested in. Lots of high schools out there already do this through various programs, as she just stated. That is not to say a basic education isn't also part of that. Goddamn I hate that I'm agreeing with this cunt, but she's right. Trying to prepare every kid for college is stupid.
Except she's just forplaying defunding schools. College isn't for everyone, but her path leads to school isn't for everyone. College should be open to everyone, not just those with trust fund daddies
True facts. I'm not saying I agree with her on everything, just that in this particular instance, she actually said something correct. Do I expect her to implement policies to this effect in good faith? Absolutely not. She just said a correct thing this time.
That's not what she means. She wants to get rid of education for the poor and working class and just make all THOSE kids train to be manual labor. Which will also, conveniently for the parasite class, suppress wages. Rick kids will still get actual educations at private for profit schools that are funded by the tax dollars that used to fund public schools.
She's saying to do it in *elementary* school, which is way too early. We had different streams in highschool for this. Earlier than highschool seems crazy though. A quarter of Americans aged 16-24 can't read as it is. The thing to do is to focus *more* on elementary skills, not push some kids out of the education stream for them. https://www.the74million.org/article/many-young-adults-barely-literate-yet-earned-a-high-school-diploma/
Sure cutting funding across the board of education must greatly reduce said "curriculum", leaving room for AI teaching, Bible studies and a couple of vocational grunt programs. Forget the need for higher education, because there won't be interest or aptitude anyway. In all my life I've never met a female plumber or electrician, but maybe that's just me.
If it sounds good it probably isn't. Her only job was to dismantle and destroy The Department of Education and put herself out of a job. The fact that she's still there means she doesn't know how. The pushback is probably immense, but they continue to cut funding and grants. Learning a trade or craft of one's own choice is wonderful, as is learning how to grow your own food.
My family and I live in a super rural (read: poor) area, and my 5th grade nephew gets to go on them all the time. He even got to go to the zoo in a major city across the state. That said, I know we're fortunate to be in a purple state that takes education so seriously it's in the top 10 for best schools across the country.
But thats not what she means. Its what she wants you to think, but what she MEANS is 'lets carve out a chunk of the so-called 'dumb kids' or the 'troublesome kids' and make them menial labor'. Its the formation of a caste system. Low-income schools to funnel poor kids into menial labor.
If you believe that when she says "natural propensity" she means "according to individual interested and predisposition" you are hopelessly stupid. She means "what we decide is "natural"". I.e. heteronormative, white, christian, worker drone skills; not faggy books or woke science.
I think everyone would benefit from what a college education inherently includes- a well-rounded education that forces people to be uncomfortable, learn critical thinking, and mix with people different from themselves. I also think every student would benefit from the honors/AP curriculum from elementary school onwards, and also that every student is capable of it. That said, nothing about trade school is incompatible with a classical education, and we absolutely need people in trades.
Big emphasis on learn critical thinking. I wasn't taught what it was, and how to do it, until fucking college. Which is absurd. Yet, all through my younger years, I heard adults say, "Use your critical thinking skills."
No she's not. My husband had a natural inclination towards mechanic work. He got into it when he was young. Now he hates it. He's tried changing fields into a less physically demanding job field, but all his experience is in mechanics, so no one will hire him, even for an entry level desk job. My point is, children don't know what they want to do at that age. Its wrong to lock them into a career path so young.
Yeah, but she’s being disingenuous about it. The first half says things we can agree with and the second half plays to her blue collar base. The dog whistle here is artsy “liberal” jobs aren’t jobs.
I think that's a fair take - by no stretch am I saying she's coming from a well-meaning place with the above. She's absolutely an evil bitch that needs some comeuppance. However, it's worth mentioning we have a shortage of plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians (that one has been in the news fairly recently which is probably why she mentioned it), and so on... If she accidentally champions a school philosophy that gives kids other paths to stability than college & the military... I'll take it.
We also have a severe shortage of medical professionals and educators, both of which require a college education and both which are arguably more of a priority.
So for some reason you think kids have a “natural propensity” towards pipe fitting and conduit bending, but not engineering or medicine? All these things are equally unnatural. If it’s not fighting, feeding or fucking, we as a species are not naturally inclined towards it.
I know pipe fitters that have a hard time counting to 10 and doctors who can’t change a lightbulb.
Public education should not be about preparing you for any particular job. It should be about giving you the knowledge 1/2
Obviously not. Normally I wouldn't bother explaining myself to someone so blatantly putting words in my mouth but no: I don't think kids have a natural propensity towards pipe fitting and conduit building. What I do think is some kids have a propensity for working with their hands and the kinds of problem-solving skills needed to be a good plumber or electrician. 1/2 >
I concur with you about a general education. I hope she agrees, but it's Linda McMahon, so I'm not holding my breath. However, I stand by my previous statements; ONE THIS ONE THING, she is correct, and I don't know that anyone will ever quantify the damage that's been done both to our economy and people's lives, by this ridiculous notion that every single kid in the country needs a high school education that is specifically geared toward their going to college. It's as absurd as unrealistic.
I can't imagine any system implemented in good faith would close that door. Maybe you have to do a year at a community college to get up to speed on anything you may have missed (emphasis on may) in high school, but shit, I had to do that anyway and was absolutely a student being tracked for college.
and tools to discover what you ARE good at and what road you wish to take.
Schools already do this to a degree, and while I agree you could do more in the direction of the trades, it’s hard to impossible to offer that kind of expansive curriculum in most places. Thus the reason trade schools exist and spoiler, you actually need math and geometry in most trades.
We're the richest country on the planet. It might be hard, but it's a universe away from impossible. Like most good societal things the government should be funding: we just lack the political will to make it happen. Also, again, no one said anything about doing away with a basic education. You are correct, you will need math & geometry for most trades. You also need some reading skills and basic science skills.
my wife teaches trade school and it is unfortunate that the local schools use it as a dumping ground for problem students so the programs never hit their potential because the entire concept is stigmatized
My nephew turned out to have an aptitude for cooking and food preparation. A VOTECH school offered that in their programs. Because my sister recalls that in our day that particular school was supposedly only for "dumb kids" she wouldn't let him transfer and he missed out on a good opportunity. That school had phenomenal trade programs but welding, auto shop, etc were viewed as undesirable. My high school had a lot of rich kids and still had a good trades program but somehow that was different
When I was in 9th grade one of my friends was at risk of dropping out, and they sent him to our local VOTECH, and I was so fucking jealous of the shit he was learning. Yet, because I was doing well in school, I couldn't go. I could not agree more.
blfpd
Brave New World
sherlockhooves
I mean we do need more people to go into trade schools, but how about we dont start pushing that on elementary and middle school kids you old cunt?
Recursiv3
Electricians, plumbers, and HVAC guys know and do a LOT of math that I, a software engineer, have no fucking idea about 🤣
Iblamemyparentstoo
dirtyFrenchman
TheRealSauceBoss
She's completely full of shit. I went to a school that had home-ec to learn cooking, sewing, welding classes and electrical. I guarantee all of those have been shut down due to budget cuts. Any federal funding for those programs is now being funneled towards dropping bombs on poor people. How the fuck does she expect schools to teach any of those skills when the whole reason for her appointment was to destroy the department she now heads?
FellaWithUmbrella
FellaWithUmbrella
Sauce: https://www.sportspolitika.news/p/trump-epstein-wwe-ring-boys-linda-mcmahon-sports-politics
TheMoonBnuuy
I really don't think we should be putting in charge of education someone who wants to put A1 in all the schools... I mean steak sauce? really?
supervillainsevilmoustache
As a union tradesman I’m currently making approximately $225K a year on this specific job. I learned my trade as an apprentice with a military program called Helmets to Hardhats about 20 years ago.
Yeah we need more young people in the trades, at the same time I want my taxes going towards public education, better pay for teachers, smaller class sizes, lower costs for a college degree, publicly funded healthcare, the end of insurance companies.
I bet this bitch is anti-union too.
AdmiralButtStuff
She is. A female wrestler expressed interest in starting a union in the WWE, and she was fired within MINUTES of the tweet going out. Kevin Nash still talks about forming a pro-wrestlers' union, and interestingly, arguing pro-wrestlers should be eligible to join SAG/AFTRA.
Grimlinnan
She wants kids to be on Epsteins Island for Donny to Rape. This is a true shit bag.
foxpotate
I don't believe there was any resolution to her pedo ring case involving the wrestling federation. She still needs to answer how she was involved.
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
Foundational literacy, numeracy and critical thinking are essential for those.
AdmiralButtStuff
I wish more of our schools actually taught critical thinking. "Use your critical thinking skills" gets tossed around a whole helluva lot, and I think MOST people saying that think it just means, "think real hard about the thing," and it absolutely does not. It's a whole process. It's not a natural thing to do, and it must be learned. Which means it must be taught.
Kablooeeey
MAGAt want the caste system in the USA combined with serfdom and share cropping. The country wont waste their time trying to educate the children of laborers but give them the tools they need for what they are "naturally inclined" to do, a shovel and a back brace. Get digging. "God decided what you were allowed to do with your life before you were born you little ingrate. We know best."
FeloniousMonk13
An uneducated populace is easier for the elites to control
theobstruction
Lol, I'm a union electrician, and at least half my coworkers have some sort of college degree. And all of us have to go through what amounts to a trade school. Get off your high horse.
Kc0125
But my boomer mom said I'm useless and stupid (I'm an engineer) and my dad who's a carpenter is the real genius 😂
KT8819
Yep, that is a stereotype, just about everywhere else in the world trades people are educated, highly respected, and earn good livings. I actually think that the POS education secretary is right about this. The US needs more trades people and they need to get rid of stereotype that comes along with it. It just would be great if they adopted a European model on Healthcare as well
eldermae
Thanks for saying this - I don’t agree with her capitalist calculus - but I do think our school system needs to be better about exposing kids to multiple career pathways, including the trades. I do like a broad education as a base, but you can often make pretty good money in the trades. And yes the perception & respect of trade pathways needs to radically shift too.
xj4low
I'm surprised she didn't just say the old Nixon line: College-educated professionals generally have more critical thinking skills and end up voting democrat. We need lower-skill people to work in the factories, paycheck to paycheck so they are easier to control.
InnerBushman
I'm an electrician working my whole life as maintenance and automation specialist. The fact I haven't gone to college means jack shit. I know engineers after college that know half of the practical knowledge I have. To many times I had to stop a guy after uni from destroying tools or the thing they're working on. I agree with your sentiment but in this case it's misplaced. Finishing highschool is not uneducated. I must say I even agree on some points with the woman in the video.
ArchaeoEejit
This would be in lieu of the education you did receive.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
I am.goimg out on a limb and going to say trades people are more educated than you and everyone who upvoted you.
I am not a trades person, but I recognize the skill and training of a good trades person. I defer to their expertise and respect them.
Stewierules
As a trades person I find that very insulting. We are highly skilled in what we do. It takes years of training and experience to become a good tradesperson. And in Canada we earn more than college graduates.
throuts
And as a craftsman, to move up in an organization you need a broad education. But even entry level jobs require math and reading...at a good level.
TalkingSnake
Also, more likely to buy wresting tickets and merch.
cheeriossuckbecause7
Of course she would say that, on behalf of the wealthy. The last thing any elite class wants is people with the critical thinking skills necessary to challenge policies that disproportionately favor one class over everyone else. And those skills are not nearly as likely to be found in trade schools, as much aa they teach valuable things.
eion85
Show me data that rich parents are sending their kids to technical colleges and into apprenticeship programs then.
Oh that's not happening? SHOCKING!
GTPTB
Shocking? You should have a plumber look at that. Or an electrician. I don't know, I'm not a roofer.
CallMeMcGyver
She means poor kids... make poor people's kids plumbers and electricians... and while you are at it, make those jobs lower paying so they are too busy trying to afford food and rent to bother to push back against the authoritarian regime... but rich people's kids should get all the perks and benefits of the finest education so they will have access to all the high paying jobs... thats what she means. That and only that. Fuck the poor people, give all the benefits to the rich is their mantra.
AdamSmasha2pointO
Just trying to groom the next generation of low wage labor the 1% need to survive.
alexandremingatos5
Secretary of re-education
CBadger
Electricians are gonna need that math...
eion85
Steering kids into educational paths based on assumptions about their ability related to race, socioeconomic background, and other similar factors is called Tracking and is unethical if not illegal, and doesn't help kids succeed nor does it help society fill employment gaps.
rmellis1112
I'm an electrical superintendent. I don't need illiterate fuckwits that can't do math or think critically. I need educated people who can turn theory into a physical product. The kids i get are less and less prepared for the real world and the fact is that I use what I learned in school every damn day.
BaconAlmighty
pyroinsomniac
What an insult to electricians and plumbers. They use more math and reading comprehension skills than her dumb cunty ass.
TheobromineAddict
A "pathway to skills" should not be interpreted as "requires no education". Becoming a skilled tradesman can require a lot of book learning,
SirPerfluousOfTheShire
This is what she wants...
UnattendedDeviant
Both her children went to Boston University. Highly selective, with an overall acceptance rate of roughly 11%. Full-time undergraduates is $95,334 to $98,419 per year.
bacross
When my sister went there in the early 90's as a marine bio major, I was like 25k a year, they joked back then it was a dollar student.
PickleRiiiiiiiiiiiiick
Rich right wingers: "college is overrated and vaccines are fake."
**sends their kids to ivy league schools & makes sure they have all their shots**
And their voters still dont see how much they hate them.
ChopOnBrother2021
It’s still a shit school. Usually hovering in the 40 to 60s in the national rankings.
StrokeFlavoured
Say it with me: The rules are for us.
powerrangerpl
The US academic education system is a fucking racket.
BilltheCatisBack
Of course they did, they passed the skin shade requirement.
LordHosk
Vince McMann is a terrible person, there is no question about that. However he and to a much lesser extent his dad, really did build their wealth from nothing.
Was it on the backs and broken bodies of exploited contractors with no healthcare, yes, but he worked his ass off to exploit those workers and make himself a billionaire, and a lot of them millionaires to boot.
did linda do any of that? No, shes just a terrible person.
MadamPuddifoot
So you're saying she slept her way to the top? Shocking. (not that shocking)
Toqom
And she's an idiot so clearly paid for their acceptance and likely their grades too like Trump having his grades paid for, also.
animi
And damned good plumbers.
xj4low
She and her husband happen to be some of the biggest donors to Trump's charity that he stole from and was forced to close.
YpsilantiRomani
In both of them have been charged with child trafficking in the United States
UnattendedDeviant
People like her believe they are inherently different and better than others because of their wealth. In her eyes *they are naturally superior and would have been in the "upper tier" regardless. So it's okay *they don't do what they suggest for others.
StrandedonEarth
There’s something to be said about getting into trades to make some cash to save up to got to college/uni later
Syovere
I respect tradesmen, though I concur with the other commenter that it's probably not going to cover college either for your kid or for yourself.
But that doesn't mean we should destroy colleges and universities to force people into the trades, and that's what this bitch wants.
frozenlake247
As a former science teacher I’d argue that is more a condemnation of colleges and for profit education systems.
Financial factors aside I think it should be considered AT LEAST as important that every person learns some practical skill(s) (like plumbing, welding, culinary arts, sewing, etc) as part of a general education as say art, 2nd languages, or higher math.
That’s not to diminish the value of any of those facets of education, rather to anchor & support them as all important.
UnattendedDeviant
You're just a likely or more likely to lose your college savings.
It's best to find a more conservative financial vehicle to save for your kid's college than thinking the average person is "getting into trades" and will make enough for college tuition. Most will lose unless extremely lucky.
LordHosk
I think you have a mistaken impression how how much money people make in the trades. An apprentice Electrician is going to earn 25-30/hour for 3-4 years until they earn their journeyman cert then it jumps to 40-50/hour
If you can't save up for college as a 18-22 year old making 45000-50,000 a year you are making some interesting choices in life.
youremyboyblueyouremyboy
I believe the issue here is the two of you are reading "trades" differently. Lord and Stranded are reading "trades" as employment in plumbing, electrical, carpentry, and construction, Deviant, on the other hand, is reading "trades" as stock-trading and speculative investment. By your own individual interpretations, you are each, independently, correct. By the other's, you are obviously wrong.
Seradhe
School, elementary School especially, Is for laying the groundwork so a student can later choose what path of study to pursue. Kind of hard to be in a trade if you can't read.
boxbackknitties
Math prof here. I don’t even know where to begin with all that is wrong with this. What an asshole.
Loctavius
Middle school teacher here - agreed.
NickRivieraMD
I'll start. I studied molecular bio in undergrad and took a bunch of humanities including art history. I loved math. I was drawn to science, poetry, philosophy, sports, woodworking. I went to med school. Ended up in maintenance work after doing about 20 other jobs. Kids don't have a single 'natural inclination' and half of what adults think it is is whatever they've projected onto them. A good education contributes to a good life, regardless of how you fit into the capitalism machine.
boxbackknitties
Thank you for that wonderful response. It sounds like you've had quite a journey and I love that. One of the things that pisses me off so much about education and the system we've built for ourselves is how we tend to push young people to decide their whole futures by like 20. I think that's such a disservice. How may 20 yr olds have a damned clue what they want to do with their lives? I sure didn't. I was always jealous of those kids that were so sure they wanted to be this or that.
throuts
I started as an electrician after the Marines, you need MATH skills, to be an electrician. That was over 20 years ago. Moving up in my career, I have supervised, instructed, and on and on. A broad education is required to move up in any career. What she is saying is we need poor people to dig ditches until they die...as long as they can vote.
boxbackknitties
Thanks for the excellent response.
boxbackknitties
Please don’t misconstrue. The trades are awesome, necessary, and I love helping young adults go down that path, but I wouldn’t start pushing them in any type of direction at a young age. It’s called “general education.”
AdmiralButtStuff
She didn't say anything about doing away with a general education though... She's enough of a shitbag without putting words in her mouth.
thewordofthedayis
Yes she did, what else could she mean by “put children on that path”
AdmiralButtStuff
Just going to ignore the whole part quoted in the image, huh? Just straight pretending like context doesn't matter anymore? That's what we're doing?
thewordofthedayis
I watched the whole clip, so my grasp of the concept is better than yours. She’s talking about taking kids out of general education. And she’s wrong to suggest it wont serve them. And you’re a lying troll
boxbackknitties
Ok I retract that, however if you’re planning on raising a generation of tradespeople, you’re going to be gearing the curriculum towards that end. In my mind, that will mean eliminating things that do not contribute to that goal so you can fit more shop time or whatever in. “Playing music gives these kids wild ideas.” “Well, let’s dump that!”
BrdCdn
Why not both? Fuck her and she certainly won't accomplish anything positive. But education has had an issue of disauding trades routes and not treating it as an academic field. Modern trades require plenty of math and other fundamentals. North America is desperately short of trades people and a renewed focus is needed on it. That doesn't mean taking away from higher education though. We can walk and chew bubblegum.
Ozimbah
"so let's provide the kind of education for them get them into pathways toward that education starting, you know, even in elementary, middle schools, high school" is a quote from this clip. She suggests, point blank, starting them on a non-college trade path in ELEMENTARY school. What about that, to you, suggests other than moving away from general education?\
NickRivieraMD
She is from the era of 'tracks.' Girls tracked into home ec and sewing instead of calc or shop. Kids with ADD tracked into shop and basic math. She wants to bring back a system that perpetuates class division. Maybe it's not doing away with gen ed, but it's impoverishing it for most students.
AdmiralButtStuff
She also said develop the skills children have a natural propensity for. Propensity means: an often intense natural inclination or preference. That means giving kids access to the kinds of curriculums they will be interested in. Lots of high schools out there already do this through various programs, as she just stated. That is not to say a basic education isn't also part of that. Goddamn I hate that I'm agreeing with this cunt, but she's right. Trying to prepare every kid for college is stupid.
Tengenstein
Except she's just forplaying defunding schools. College isn't for everyone, but her path leads to school isn't for everyone. College should be open to everyone, not just those with trust fund daddies
LuminoZero
She's a Republican, therefore she is a lying Nazi cunt.
"You have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be awful people."
AdmiralButtStuff
True facts. I'm not saying I agree with her on everything, just that in this particular instance, she actually said something correct. Do I expect her to implement policies to this effect in good faith? Absolutely not. She just said a correct thing this time.
1eventHorizon9
That's not what she means. She wants to get rid of education for the poor and working class and just make all THOSE kids train to be manual labor. Which will also, conveniently for the parasite class, suppress wages. Rick kids will still get actual educations at private for profit schools that are funded by the tax dollars that used to fund public schools.
NickRivieraMD
Exactly this. don't take this bullshit sales pitch without the context of their policies.
sevro77
She's pretty much saying what Mike Rowe has been saying for years.
AdmiralButtStuff
Yep. They both took the wrong way to the right place. Rowe is a magat shit-heel too, sadly.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
She's saying to do it in *elementary* school, which is way too early. We had different streams in highschool for this. Earlier than highschool seems crazy though. A quarter of Americans aged 16-24 can't read as it is. The thing to do is to focus *more* on elementary skills, not push some kids out of the education stream for them. https://www.the74million.org/article/many-young-adults-barely-literate-yet-earned-a-high-school-diploma/
OceansRust
Sure cutting funding across the board of education must greatly reduce said "curriculum", leaving room for AI teaching, Bible studies and a couple of vocational grunt programs. Forget the need for higher education, because there won't be interest or aptitude anyway. In all my life I've never met a female plumber or electrician, but maybe that's just me.
AdmiralButtStuff
Hey now, I didn't say I agree with everything she's doing.
OceansRust
If it sounds good it probably isn't. Her only job was to dismantle and destroy The Department of Education and put herself out of a job. The fact that she's still there means she doesn't know how. The pushback is probably immense, but they continue to cut funding and grants. Learning a trade or craft of one's own choice is wonderful, as is learning how to grow your own food.
OceansRust
Field trips were the greatest thing in Elementary. I hope they still are, but doubt schools have the budget.
AdmiralButtStuff
My family and I live in a super rural (read: poor) area, and my 5th grade nephew gets to go on them all the time. He even got to go to the zoo in a major city across the state. That said, I know we're fortunate to be in a purple state that takes education so seriously it's in the top 10 for best schools across the country.
AgamemnonsMemes
But thats not what she means. Its what she wants you to think, but what she MEANS is 'lets carve out a chunk of the so-called 'dumb kids' or the 'troublesome kids' and make them menial labor'. Its the formation of a caste system. Low-income schools to funnel poor kids into menial labor.
CandidGamera
If you believe that when she says "natural propensity" she means "according to individual interested and predisposition" you are hopelessly stupid. She means "what we decide is "natural"". I.e. heteronormative, white, christian, worker drone skills; not faggy books or woke science.
TinyBadger101
I think everyone would benefit from what a college education inherently includes- a well-rounded education that forces people to be uncomfortable, learn critical thinking, and mix with people different from themselves. I also think every student would benefit from the honors/AP curriculum from elementary school onwards, and also that every student is capable of it. That said, nothing about trade school is incompatible with a classical education, and we absolutely need people in trades.
AdmiralButtStuff
Big emphasis on learn critical thinking. I wasn't taught what it was, and how to do it, until fucking college. Which is absurd. Yet, all through my younger years, I heard adults say, "Use your critical thinking skills."
clankthegray
No she's not. My husband had a natural inclination towards mechanic work. He got into it when he was young. Now he hates it. He's tried changing fields into a less physically demanding job field, but all his experience is in mechanics, so no one will hire him, even for an entry level desk job. My point is, children don't know what they want to do at that age. Its wrong to lock them into a career path so young.
unluckyandbored
This is coded language. What she means is "teach the girls to be homemakers, teach the boys to be everything else".
lackadaisycull
Yeah, but she’s being disingenuous about it. The first half says things we can agree with and the second half plays to her blue collar base. The dog whistle here is artsy “liberal” jobs aren’t jobs.
TinyBadger101
Oh, it's so much worse. That shit is so racialized. Guess which kids she thinks have a propensity for physical labor and what color their skin is ...
AdmiralButtStuff
I think that's a fair take - by no stretch am I saying she's coming from a well-meaning place with the above. She's absolutely an evil bitch that needs some comeuppance. However, it's worth mentioning we have a shortage of plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians (that one has been in the news fairly recently which is probably why she mentioned it), and so on... If she accidentally champions a school philosophy that gives kids other paths to stability than college & the military... I'll take it.
Chilichunks
We also have a severe shortage of medical professionals and educators, both of which require a college education and both which are arguably more of a priority.
tentacularfleshscape
The issue is the philosophy, however correct, is just window dressing on razing the department of education down to the ground.
The only paths they seek to lay for children are menial labor or prison for the hoi polloi and charter schools for the privileged
modis
So for some reason you think kids have a “natural propensity” towards pipe fitting and conduit bending, but not engineering or medicine? All these things are equally unnatural. If it’s not fighting, feeding or fucking, we as a species are not naturally inclined towards it.
I know pipe fitters that have a hard time counting to 10 and doctors who can’t change a lightbulb.
Public education should not be about preparing you for any particular job. It should be about giving you the knowledge 1/2
AdmiralButtStuff
Obviously not. Normally I wouldn't bother explaining myself to someone so blatantly putting words in my mouth but no: I don't think kids have a natural propensity towards pipe fitting and conduit building. What I do think is some kids have a propensity for working with their hands and the kinds of problem-solving skills needed to be a good plumber or electrician. 1/2 >
AdmiralButtStuff
I concur with you about a general education. I hope she agrees, but it's Linda McMahon, so I'm not holding my breath. However, I stand by my previous statements; ONE THIS ONE THING, she is correct, and I don't know that anyone will ever quantify the damage that's been done both to our economy and people's lives, by this ridiculous notion that every single kid in the country needs a high school education that is specifically geared toward their going to college. It's as absurd as unrealistic.
travmartinson365
My only concern with this is if it bars or restricts people from changing their minds about college.
AdmiralButtStuff
I can't imagine any system implemented in good faith would close that door. Maybe you have to do a year at a community college to get up to speed on anything you may have missed (emphasis on may) in high school, but shit, I had to do that anyway and was absolutely a student being tracked for college.
modis
and tools to discover what you ARE good at and what road you wish to take.
Schools already do this to a degree, and while I agree you could do more in the direction of the trades, it’s hard to impossible to offer that kind of expansive curriculum in most places. Thus the reason trade schools exist and spoiler, you actually need math and geometry in most trades.
AdmiralButtStuff
We're the richest country on the planet. It might be hard, but it's a universe away from impossible. Like most good societal things the government should be funding: we just lack the political will to make it happen. Also, again, no one said anything about doing away with a basic education. You are correct, you will need math & geometry for most trades. You also need some reading skills and basic science skills.
nesurame
bending pipe all day makes me wish I paid more attention in geometry so I wouldn't be using rule of thumb for precision work
SarcasticComment
my wife teaches trade school and it is unfortunate that the local schools use it as a dumping ground for problem students so the programs never hit their potential because the entire concept is stigmatized
CyberWizard252
My nephew turned out to have an aptitude for cooking and food preparation. A VOTECH school offered that in their programs. Because my sister recalls that in our day that particular school was supposedly only for "dumb kids" she wouldn't let him transfer and he missed out on a good opportunity. That school had phenomenal trade programs but welding, auto shop, etc were viewed as undesirable. My high school had a lot of rich kids and still had a good trades program but somehow that was different
AdmiralButtStuff
When I was in 9th grade one of my friends was at risk of dropping out, and they sent him to our local VOTECH, and I was so fucking jealous of the shit he was learning. Yet, because I was doing well in school, I couldn't go. I could not agree more.