Mar 25, 2023 4:28 PM
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Kc0125
People age 55 are mostly useless at work and we are sick of working with old morons. Make the retirement age 50
Bloodsense
French Revolution 2: Retirement Boogaloo
EroticZombiePants
Note that this is still a lower age than America ... of course.
Thevelvetfog
The french know how to riot wheb the government takes the piss.
GuyPilot
90% of the time I'd be with those protesters. But insisting that all can retire at 62? Please. There's no money for this.
fimbl
Would be fascinating to see Americans do this... apparently only MAGAT goblins are trying so far.
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
Make American politics French again
slinkiisu
This is over RETIREMENT? Jesus fuck. I'm convinced I'll never be able to retire
PoliticalWanderer
N0S4A2
♪♫ Do you hhear the people sing, singing the song of burning men♫ ♪
Revelant
New daft punk album looking sick!
TheRidg
Riot, Robot Riot
NonstopRampage
DangerBaer
"Werfer, get the flammenhanz!"
VegasTeach
Don't fuck with les pompiers!
Bludabeagle
Flamme!!
xheartonfirex
Didn’t the GOP float a proposal to raise the retirement age to 70? I think they dropped it in favor of just scrapping Social Security.
michaelpaice2
Are we going to see guillotines in the public squares again?
vidiv
Routine maintenance.
10Upvotes
History needs repeating.....sometimes /s
nasukkin
If you don't, they'll do it again.
Promethianfire
I hope not. It turned out pretty awfully for the French people last time.
FreshBundleOfStick
The last time the guillotine was used in France was in 1977
Yeah, I was talking about the French revolution.
The old regime was way worse and most of the dangers came from other European monarchies.
And they published photos of the heads in the newspapers!
Thorpington
I watched a program about the sustainability of public funded pensions and cause people are older more often its becoming unaffordable.
WoofBastard
I do so love the French people's willingness to cause a ruckus when their government does something shitty.
rudiboy2000
UK 67 come live here MFkrs!!
Account3577
If we all set stuff on fire as often as the French did the world would be a very different place.
😂😂
qtRaven
Saxytimes
Honest question: what percentage of professions offer retirement?
Shoutrr
offer retirement as in money or as in age ? because in france, all professions offer retirement (money) at the legal age. The sum varies
depending on your job, and you can set aside money to compliment it. As for age of retirement, there's 2 kinds:the jobs who abide by the law
and the "professions liberales", who retire when they want (doctors, artisans...) Also, you can chose to continue to work after retirement.
What about like a small business owner? Or private tutor, that kind of thing?
same. the pay they receive (self employed) contains their contribution to retirement (and healthcare, and education).
Magus25
You gotta give it to the French, they know how to tell their government to fuck right off with bull shit.
juliana6878
Go the good people of France. Showing us all what is is like to have a spine.
ricpaul
Life expectancy increases about a month every year in the Netherlands since 1957 when some retirement plan was introduced. So someone born >
in 2007 will have a 60 month longer life expectancy then someone born in 1947. A 10 year old can tell you this will cause problems with your
pension unless you start paying WAY more now, agree to be payed WAY less later or raise the pension age. But go ahead and ignore all this...
Rulweylan
Given that modern workers are well over twice as productive per hour worked than they were in 1957, you'd think we'd have plenty to spare.
in9119iwas
yes, but because we are all ripped off by the companies, refusing to raise the pension age will simply fuck the younger generations.
You're working on the assumption there is a hard limit to corporate greed. Any slack created by pension cuts will just be pocketed by corps.
Blze001
As an American: what’s this “retirement” people keep talking about?
bottledham
This crisis is coming to America and we're fucked. Congress can't agree to name a post office. They'll never fix Social Security.
thatfucknguy
This won't be an issue in US ever. The age requirement is moot when no one has the wealth to retire.
mgarupa
It’s like free socialist healthcare. Sorry you can’t get it.
fijianladki68
crossingdynasty
"Why don't the police just go grab their military surplus grenades, machine guns and literal tanks all civilized nations have?"
J3lek
Because then the citizens will all grab their assault rifles and pipe bombs that all citizens in all civilized nations have.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
When you were less tired at one point, but then get more tired again. You re-tire.
Oh. I've been re-tired for 10 years. I thought that was called burnout.
TsubakiTragic
Don't get angry, but it's when a country takes care of its seniors. Lotsa countries do it. But you have capitalism, which is much better. /s
ramblinrebel
that's when you go get a part time job to supplement your social security check.
Hefelump
Its a concept that we are not yet ready to understand. We just out our old people to work as Walmart greeters until they drop dead
Pyrowolf1
In America it's just know as dying
DJOldguy
Something boomers used to talk about.
SimpDaddyDee
When you've worked long enough to afford to replace your car's tires. It's never.
Xooks
Every paycheck a part of what you earn go to a public retirement fund, when you reach a certain age and number of years worked ...
You can retire and get a monthly pension based on what you earned when working
Why downvote ???
You didn't parrot the herd
higginh7
The government will back down because trash is being dumped at politicians gates. Paris is a swamp of garbage. This is why Unions work.
rulek
Unions in France take things a little too far. Big cheap health care is good, but needs to be paid for.
Werewolfoflondon
Now we know what to do in the USA
witheredspoon
Politicians dont care unless it personally affects them. This is the way to do it! Right to their front steps!
maststick
The French strike and riot for everything
eggmuffin
That's because oligarchs keep pulling their bullshit, and this is the best way their labour force can respond.
The French unions are on the ball, and keep their members up to date on legal and political developments relevant to their members.
I hope you're right but the law passed, we'll lose 2 years before retirement unless the constitutional counsil (last step) refuse it.
To make up for it, you just have to spend the next 2 years rioting instead of working.
"We need you to come in to work tomorrow-" "No can do, I'm goin to help burn down parliament. Unless *this* is somehow more important."
Nonada
Couldn't Macron just activate the same part of the constitution that he did to circumvent Le Cóngresse or whatever the French call it?
The parliament normally votes the laws, but he can use the 49.3 which is a part of the constitution where he puts his government in geopardy
the parliament can then vote a motion of censure to dissolve the government and the law, but it's not something trivial
That's what happened but the motion of censure did not pass, in this case there is a last instance capable of refusing or pass the law
MissingImage
Nope, if it gets shot down in this final step then he basically gets fired.
Sumdumguy42
Why was the age raised to begin with and what’s your idea to finance a retirement of 62?
When he came to poser in 2017 Macron removed a tax for the wealthy (ISF), 20 billion a year, then he created an aid for the big corps...
(cice) that costs the country ~25 billion a year, the retirement system as it exists today still has a positive yield, it may be ...
Negative in 5 - 10 years but the cost would be ~14 billion a year ... Enough said ...
michaeloberg
But wheres the money for that is such a tired and worthless argument. Same as as for everything else dumbass. Rich people and corporations
I just love how you fuckwits can argue without insults. Makes it so easy to weed out the human garbage and mute you sad sacks.
That is exactly the case macron removed some tax for the rich for a bigger amount that the retirement fund would cost ...
Sonicschilidogs
Paris was always a swamp of garbage though
HasteTheFool
Swamper.
KingMCG
I came here to say this.
LicensedAdHominem
Yeah but not where politicians live, plus ALLEGEDLY it was cleaned up a few years ago.
bigbigbilly
I was there a decade ago and it wasn't too bad
I was there 11-12 years ago and it was absolute, unmissable garbage. If you're being exact, I think we've narrowed the cleanup period!
It was end of April 2013 I believe
Pray tell your alternatives to finance a retirement at 62.
Good luck... people lose their minds when you ask how government will pay for something. They think you're automatically against it.
Cut politicians pay and tax the rich? Also, Paris was already trash before this.
What’s the tax brackets in France like? By how much does the pay cut for a few thousand politicians need to be cut to pay retirement for />
a few million French?
Svartlebee
So, you end up with only rich people becoming politicians. Fucking idiot.
If that's what you think lol
That's literally why they raised politician wages, because he only ones who could afford to campaign were people already wealthy. This is
Froggie243
That's what happens now anyway
DucksAreGood
If the increase in production value was translated into an equivalent increase in salary for the worker, the cotisation would be enough 1/2
to compensate for the increase in life expectancy. 2/2
putcleverusernamehere
We could do that here in the US
some USA are useless or relatives to those they choose back up during election
ManByTechnicality
You okay? I think you are having a stroke.
QTLingTorrasque
Too many Americans are vehemently against unions for no reason.
DMSledge
Not for no reason. Just because they have been scared effectively.
Oh they have reasons. Specifically the reasons the companies tell them why they don't want unions.
Jt68686
Brainwashed fools fighting for their own oppression. Sad
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
No we're not. A 71% of Americans support unions. But the government has made them weak, made it hard to organize, and easy to bust. for 1/2
context 76% of Americans feel positively about kittens and 81% enjoy apple pie. So union support is about as high as support for anything.
ThrowAwayAcct0000
Propaganda takes a toll
AutoFox
We should copy this. Whenever the state tries to walk back their responsibility to care for their people, by any degree, it should be met >>
>> with violence. Not one step back.
MeatPopsicleMultiPass
I mean, america can't do this because the cops will just shoot you.
They can shoot SOME of us. Some of us have guns too, though.
GodEmperorOfImgur
France votes for the two parties who outright said "We will raise the retirement age" and then get angry when... they raise it.
We didn't all vote for who's in power, that's why we have a parliament, they bypassed it, we in the streets now.
(parliament is voted proportionally)
linkdk59
It's true. But the parties themselves also fully knew this. They raise it.... and the people get angry.
MonsieurBrochant
Sadly, the French usually don't "vote for" in the last stage of our elections, they "vote against", which is the first thing Macron acknowle
dged once re-elected
boatymcboatfaceplant
If people spend more time retired than they have worked, pension money will run out. Not saying this is the solution but there are 1/2
Say it with me "tax ... the ... rich"
Won't help. People you consider rich have the means to completely pull out of the system, or organize it so it won't affect them. 1/3
If you expect them to stay in their country and pay a flat, high income tax, you are counting on their socialist qualities. How many 2/3
Rich people do you know that are famous for that? The really rich bastards laugh at your laws. They just avoid them. 3/3
schlummi
Won't be good enough. At this point: tax automation might work. If we get a global minimum tax for companies of 50% or so...
Valid reasons why this is being considered. 2/2
When retirement age of 62 was introduced, lets say life expectancy was 72. This is what a pension is based on. So choices are: pay more now>
When retirement age of 62 was introduced, the average worker produced less than half the wealth per hour worked they do today.
Your point being that people should unionize, strike for better pay and go for option 1 of my proposed solutions?
Ideally, yes. Failing that, the government could subsidise pensions by taxing the owning class.
get less later, raise the rietirement age or stop payment and give a person a free loaded gun on their 72nd birthday. imho the only options.
bp920091
Or... we can tax the rich more? If GDP Per Capita is increasing or stagnant, the money is there, it just has to be found. Look to the rich.
Richter12x2
If only we Americans had as much courage as the French.
But, but, freedom fries!
ellion0815
Yall don't lack courage, the majority lacks empathy. You will fight against each other, but not together.
MrJwinkyface
As an American my retirement plan is to work at Walmart as a door greeter till I die.
vampire49
A better plan might be to work as a teacher's aide. Pay is absolute crap but you get hugs every day.
But then I’d feel back about stealing from work
madcatii
After you die, you can work as the door.
knowsWhereHisTowelIs
You deserve better. Never vote republican and demand truly progressive democrats instead of corporate democrats!
Sadly our system is not designed to support that. We need ranked choice voting at all levels
Our Walmart has done away with that job ... soooo ...
HelloImMarshall
Ours turned into someone checking receipts
Gotta keep theft up high enough they need them to check receipts
StarmineRendezvous
As it should. Retirement should ONLY ever go lower and lower as society progresses if anything is being done right at all.
I think once you get to 60 or so its fair to stop lowering it and start reducing the number of hours in the work week. Yes we could 1/2
retire at 50, but wouldn't you rather only need to work 32 hours in your 20s, 30s, and 40s?
ImAFoxButNotReally
Population is aging. People are living more and there less young people. So less people pay retirement for more people. It's not that easy.
If the GDP per capita is increasing or static in a country, which has been the case, that money is going somewhere. Tax the rich to fix that
That shit costs money. Basic rule of policy: figure out where the funds are supposed to come from. (Macron's critics have no solution
You clearly don't know what you're talking about
WhatTheFrog
They do. Raising all wages would to the trick, but we don't want to do that, do we? Taxing billionaires by 3% would also cover the deficit.
A big fraction of wages is paid by government, would cost them even more. Let's start at raising taxes for higher incomes and corporate prof
TheFishFace
How will "raising all wages" happen, and how will it help people in retirement who don't earn a wage?
Greater contribution towards our pension fund, therefore greater pensions.
Okay that makes sense, but how will it happen?
ZeCosmicRrope
It makes me proud to be French
Macron explosion!
icanc4
I'm proud of the protesters standing up to power - but fighting to keep a public pension that starts at 62 when people are now living to 82?
Depends on the job, rising the limit age is ok for white collar jobs but for blue collar it's not ar all acceptable. Plus the system is ...
Not currently at risk, it might be in ~5 years, depending on salary and workforce augmentation in the country, so why touch it?
Five years is not a long time when you're talking about funding pension plans for a population that is aging and excessively unemployed
Again, the deficit would be like 14 billion which is very little for a country, and putting back the ISF would cover for it and more...
Okilele
We don't want to live for work. It's not only because of retirement. This reform was just the drop of water that has made the vase overflow
And now we are f***ing mad ...
I feel the same way. We'd all be better off if we lived more like you French. But France has more generous employment contracts 1/2
than just about anywhere else. Who pays for it? 2/2
Kloetus
Germans with a retirement age of 67 looking across the border: "You guys get to retire?"
[deleted]
Ah, casual racism :)
saucefornoreason
In USA you work until you die
dazergolf
we Krauts suck at demonstrating =(
Feralkyn
Monday all the public transport's gonna be shut the fuck down, and hospital doctors are already walked out on strike so
MmmmmSoup
66 in Australia but no one can afford to
rameniki
I’m looking at 69.5 in the Netherlands.
NoGunsNoCats
Same in the UK and being raised to 68. 18% of gov spending goes on pensions in the UK, it's unaffordable.
Zixtank
Norway concurs, though in our case, we have the opposite problem. We want to work longer.
Illendor
Germany's dealing with their own strikes atm.
Freakscar
But those are about salary. Not retirement age. Also, not anywhere near as ferocious as those in france.
They're strikes, not protests.
sfcorax
They can set the age to 45 and none of us going to retire still.
uniqueusernamesarehard
The system is a bit different in France.
Neonbaron
United states "oh please i could never afford to retire"
Anhor
German here: Minimum is the key word here. 67+ is more realistic. Or do you know many with no holes in their vitae?
makeSX
Finland here: I just checked, the earlyest for me is 64y, target 67y, preferred 69y
Ghlargh
Same in Sweden, you get a higher pension the longer you wait though, unless you get retired on medical grounds of course.
Shh, out american friends cannot understand words like that
Ye, I'm French and there's no way I can retire with a full pension before 67, with this new law, not before 69.
RadishIsAMeat
Everyone in Europe seems to be 67+ France was the only outsider with 62
HiHowAreYou92
I'm always reminded that we should want better for the next generation. We are capable, why make things harder on our children?
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
Just because there's worse, doesn't mean this is good.
pixelsnader
Yeah I'm torn. On one hand, good for them. On the other hand, they have above average life expectancy and low retirement age, which means ☞
there will be a much bigger 'grey wave' to take care of, requiring more overhead from the workforce. French birthrate IS a bit higher than ☞
the EU average though (but still sub-replavement), so maybe that's enough to level the field with, say Germany.
saxon2060
We don't need younger people to sell themselves for 40 hours a week to support the old people. There's enough money in developed countries >
Fedotia
Nope, that's the minimal age. It's been explained several times.
clk62
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10k9w3z/retirement_age_in_europe_2022/
Cofrane
62 is the minimum age to retire but it does not mean you have full pension. You also need 43 years of contribution.
A lot of people do not retire at 62 because of that. 67 is the max age to retire with full pension whether or not you contributed for 43yrs.
What I mean is, do not imagine everybody gets to retire at 62, periode. That is not how our retirement system works.
Nanashi550
That's on paper. It's actually calculated by the number of years you worked.
Fralyah
As a french myself, the question isn't just about the fact that its 64 now. Its about making sure our current government knows to not (1/?)
Push things too far. They are passing laws by force, without a vote, just because they can. With no consideration of consequences (2/?)
And we're slowly going more and more towards a political regime that does whatever it wants just because they can. This is the (3/4)
Reason why peoples are angry. We stand up for our right to express ourselves, and to prevent dictature-like behavior from politicians. :)
MKESewerRat
If the government won't stop when millions march, they've stopped fearing the public.
tiderfish
Mucho respect my minión
TCGView
Us Americans will work even after death.
Muenyn
Playing Outer Worlds again, and damn if it doesnt instill the dread with its real worls parallels to our capitalist dystopia
I played through cyberpunk2077. I can totally see a path from our present to that future.
oh ya. saw an article on smart locks that would auto lock out a renter if they were even a day late paying. got flashbacks to the the anime.
There were articles recently about self driving cars repossessing themselves if you miss a payment too.
CheetoDustedMalcontent
They will sell my body to pay debts after I an dead. USA, USA, USA!
EVEN IN DEATH I SERVE
anjeleyezjr
A DUTY HONOURABLY DISCHARGED...
AmericanOstrich
IT IS BETTER TO DIE FOE THE EMPEROR THAN LIVE FOR YOURSELF
MagmaCarta
*cries in American*
thatsbadmmkay
Guess I'll just work til I died and when I die they'll call me lazy
Flightmaster101
This
frederickfrancis
US Gvmnt: 62? $2500/mo. 70? $4500/mo. Me: Isn't that unfair as congress gets max after 5 yrs? US Gvmnt:
basiccricket8444
I'm surprised it's that much tbh
micicle
Well old people get sick more and american Healthcare is fucking expensive so it makes sense.
That is certainly true
RearAdmiralObvious
I got to retire at 29 after getting neared crippled. So got that going for me.
Titty5prinkles
Me too but I got bored after a decade. Went to school, got off the narcs and now am in huge debt and unemployment for getting hurt once
UmamiMama
We can't even afford to cry
BobTheWeak
Hey! Are those tears approved by HR? You need to clock out & cry off the clock.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I cry on company time. In the bathroom stall, between Zoom meetings.
Targe0
Management:”We are bringing in a new policy, you only count as being on shift when actively working.”
MapleSyrupMafia
The bathroom time is for shitting on the clock, not for crying. Hope you don't combine both at the same time.
Nectarinebutthole
Americans get to retire?
Sensiblyinteresting
I am under 40 and do not believe I will ever be allowed to retire in the US. Officially
rbudrick
Not since the 80s, maybe.
RandyRandalman
Death is a kind of retirement I guess
dtj0002
My dad was military. Gave up his marriage, hearing, and body but he got to retire at 53.
I live in a major city. Most of the homeless are veterans. I wish I can do more. 1st world country my ass. ☹️
KeithSvenson
Yeah that is news to me
Kc0125
People age 55 are mostly useless at work and we are sick of working with old morons. Make the retirement age 50
Bloodsense
French Revolution 2: Retirement Boogaloo
EroticZombiePants
Note that this is still a lower age than America ... of course.
Thevelvetfog
The french know how to riot wheb the government takes the piss.
GuyPilot
90% of the time I'd be with those protesters. But insisting that all can retire at 62? Please. There's no money for this.
fimbl
Would be fascinating to see Americans do this... apparently only MAGAT goblins are trying so far.
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
Make American politics French again
slinkiisu
This is over RETIREMENT? Jesus fuck. I'm convinced I'll never be able to retire
PoliticalWanderer
N0S4A2
♪♫ Do you hhear the people sing, singing the song of burning men♫ ♪
Revelant
New daft punk album looking sick!
TheRidg
Riot, Robot Riot
NonstopRampage
DangerBaer
"Werfer, get the flammenhanz!"
VegasTeach
Don't fuck with les pompiers!
Bludabeagle
Flamme!!
xheartonfirex
Didn’t the GOP float a proposal to raise the retirement age to 70? I think they dropped it in favor of just scrapping Social Security.
michaelpaice2
Are we going to see guillotines in the public squares again?
vidiv
Routine maintenance.
10Upvotes
History needs repeating.....sometimes /s
nasukkin
If you don't, they'll do it again.
Promethianfire
I hope not. It turned out pretty awfully for the French people last time.
FreshBundleOfStick
The last time the guillotine was used in France was in 1977
Promethianfire
Yeah, I was talking about the French revolution.
FreshBundleOfStick
The old regime was way worse and most of the dangers came from other European monarchies.
michaelpaice2
And they published photos of the heads in the newspapers!
Thorpington
I watched a program about the sustainability of public funded pensions and cause people are older more often its becoming unaffordable.
WoofBastard
I do so love the French people's willingness to cause a ruckus when their government does something shitty.
rudiboy2000
UK 67 come live here MFkrs!!
Account3577
If we all set stuff on fire as often as the French did the world would be a very different place.
rudiboy2000
😂😂
qtRaven
Saxytimes
Honest question: what percentage of professions offer retirement?
Shoutrr
offer retirement as in money or as in age ? because in france, all professions offer retirement (money) at the legal age. The sum varies
Shoutrr
depending on your job, and you can set aside money to compliment it. As for age of retirement, there's 2 kinds:the jobs who abide by the law
Shoutrr
and the "professions liberales", who retire when they want (doctors, artisans...) Also, you can chose to continue to work after retirement.
Saxytimes
What about like a small business owner? Or private tutor, that kind of thing?
Shoutrr
same. the pay they receive (self employed) contains their contribution to retirement (and healthcare, and education).
Magus25
You gotta give it to the French, they know how to tell their government to fuck right off with bull shit.
juliana6878
Go the good people of France. Showing us all what is is like to have a spine.
ricpaul
Life expectancy increases about a month every year in the Netherlands since 1957 when some retirement plan was introduced. So someone born >
ricpaul
in 2007 will have a 60 month longer life expectancy then someone born in 1947. A 10 year old can tell you this will cause problems with your
ricpaul
pension unless you start paying WAY more now, agree to be payed WAY less later or raise the pension age. But go ahead and ignore all this...
Rulweylan
Given that modern workers are well over twice as productive per hour worked than they were in 1957, you'd think we'd have plenty to spare.
in9119iwas
yes, but because we are all ripped off by the companies, refusing to raise the pension age will simply fuck the younger generations.
Rulweylan
You're working on the assumption there is a hard limit to corporate greed. Any slack created by pension cuts will just be pocketed by corps.
Blze001
As an American: what’s this “retirement” people keep talking about?
bottledham
This crisis is coming to America and we're fucked. Congress can't agree to name a post office. They'll never fix Social Security.
thatfucknguy
This won't be an issue in US ever. The age requirement is moot when no one has the wealth to retire.
mgarupa
It’s like free socialist healthcare. Sorry you can’t get it.
fijianladki68
crossingdynasty
"Why don't the police just go grab their military surplus grenades, machine guns and literal tanks all civilized nations have?"
J3lek
Because then the citizens will all grab their assault rifles and pipe bombs that all citizens in all civilized nations have.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
When you were less tired at one point, but then get more tired again. You re-tire.
J3lek
Oh. I've been re-tired for 10 years. I thought that was called burnout.
TsubakiTragic
Don't get angry, but it's when a country takes care of its seniors. Lotsa countries do it. But you have capitalism, which is much better. /s
ramblinrebel
that's when you go get a part time job to supplement your social security check.
Hefelump
Its a concept that we are not yet ready to understand. We just out our old people to work as Walmart greeters until they drop dead
Pyrowolf1
In America it's just know as dying
DJOldguy
Something boomers used to talk about.
SimpDaddyDee
When you've worked long enough to afford to replace your car's tires. It's never.
Xooks
Every paycheck a part of what you earn go to a public retirement fund, when you reach a certain age and number of years worked ...
Xooks
You can retire and get a monthly pension based on what you earned when working
Xooks
Why downvote ???
bottledham
You didn't parrot the herd
higginh7
The government will back down because trash is being dumped at politicians gates. Paris is a swamp of garbage. This is why Unions work.
rulek
Unions in France take things a little too far. Big cheap health care is good, but needs to be paid for.
Werewolfoflondon
Now we know what to do in the USA
witheredspoon
Politicians dont care unless it personally affects them. This is the way to do it! Right to their front steps!
maststick
The French strike and riot for everything
eggmuffin
That's because oligarchs keep pulling their bullshit, and this is the best way their labour force can respond.
eggmuffin
The French unions are on the ball, and keep their members up to date on legal and political developments relevant to their members.
Xooks
I hope you're right but the law passed, we'll lose 2 years before retirement unless the constitutional counsil (last step) refuse it.
J3lek
To make up for it, you just have to spend the next 2 years rioting instead of working.
NonstopRampage
"We need you to come in to work tomorrow-" "No can do, I'm goin to help burn down parliament. Unless *this* is somehow more important."
Nonada
Couldn't Macron just activate the same part of the constitution that he did to circumvent Le Cóngresse or whatever the French call it?
Xooks
The parliament normally votes the laws, but he can use the 49.3 which is a part of the constitution where he puts his government in geopardy
Xooks
the parliament can then vote a motion of censure to dissolve the government and the law, but it's not something trivial
Xooks
That's what happened but the motion of censure did not pass, in this case there is a last instance capable of refusing or pass the law
MissingImage
Nope, if it gets shot down in this final step then he basically gets fired.
Sumdumguy42
Why was the age raised to begin with and what’s your idea to finance a retirement of 62?
Xooks
When he came to poser in 2017 Macron removed a tax for the wealthy (ISF), 20 billion a year, then he created an aid for the big corps...
Xooks
(cice) that costs the country ~25 billion a year, the retirement system as it exists today still has a positive yield, it may be ...
Xooks
Negative in 5 - 10 years but the cost would be ~14 billion a year ... Enough said ...
michaeloberg
But wheres the money for that is such a tired and worthless argument. Same as as for everything else dumbass. Rich people and corporations
Sumdumguy42
I just love how you fuckwits can argue without insults. Makes it so easy to weed out the human garbage and mute you sad sacks.
Xooks
That is exactly the case macron removed some tax for the rich for a bigger amount that the retirement fund would cost ...
Sonicschilidogs
Paris was always a swamp of garbage though
HasteTheFool
Swamper.
KingMCG
I came here to say this.
LicensedAdHominem
Yeah but not where politicians live, plus ALLEGEDLY it was cleaned up a few years ago.
bigbigbilly
I was there a decade ago and it wasn't too bad
LicensedAdHominem
I was there 11-12 years ago and it was absolute, unmissable garbage. If you're being exact, I think we've narrowed the cleanup period!
bigbigbilly
It was end of April 2013 I believe
Sumdumguy42
Pray tell your alternatives to finance a retirement at 62.
bottledham
Good luck... people lose their minds when you ask how government will pay for something. They think you're automatically against it.
Sonicschilidogs
Cut politicians pay and tax the rich? Also, Paris was already trash before this.
Sumdumguy42
What’s the tax brackets in France like? By how much does the pay cut for a few thousand politicians need to be cut to pay retirement for />
Sumdumguy42
a few million French?
Svartlebee
So, you end up with only rich people becoming politicians. Fucking idiot.
Sonicschilidogs
If that's what you think lol
Svartlebee
That's literally why they raised politician wages, because he only ones who could afford to campaign were people already wealthy. This is
Froggie243
That's what happens now anyway
DucksAreGood
If the increase in production value was translated into an equivalent increase in salary for the worker, the cotisation would be enough 1/2
DucksAreGood
to compensate for the increase in life expectancy. 2/2
putcleverusernamehere
We could do that here in the US
10Upvotes
ManByTechnicality
You okay? I think you are having a stroke.
QTLingTorrasque
Too many Americans are vehemently against unions for no reason.
DMSledge
Not for no reason. Just because they have been scared effectively.
ManByTechnicality
Oh they have reasons. Specifically the reasons the companies tell them why they don't want unions.
Jt68686
Brainwashed fools fighting for their own oppression. Sad
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
No we're not. A 71% of Americans support unions. But the government has made them weak, made it hard to organize, and easy to bust. for 1/2
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
context 76% of Americans feel positively about kittens and 81% enjoy apple pie. So union support is about as high as support for anything.
ThrowAwayAcct0000
Propaganda takes a toll
AutoFox
We should copy this. Whenever the state tries to walk back their responsibility to care for their people, by any degree, it should be met >>
AutoFox
>> with violence. Not one step back.
MeatPopsicleMultiPass
I mean, america can't do this because the cops will just shoot you.
AutoFox
They can shoot SOME of us. Some of us have guns too, though.
GodEmperorOfImgur
France votes for the two parties who outright said "We will raise the retirement age" and then get angry when... they raise it.
Xooks
We didn't all vote for who's in power, that's why we have a parliament, they bypassed it, we in the streets now.
Xooks
(parliament is voted proportionally)
linkdk59
It's true. But the parties themselves also fully knew this. They raise it.... and the people get angry.
MonsieurBrochant
Sadly, the French usually don't "vote for" in the last stage of our elections, they "vote against", which is the first thing Macron acknowle
MonsieurBrochant
dged once re-elected
boatymcboatfaceplant
If people spend more time retired than they have worked, pension money will run out. Not saying this is the solution but there are 1/2
J3lek
Say it with me "tax ... the ... rich"
boatymcboatfaceplant
Won't help. People you consider rich have the means to completely pull out of the system, or organize it so it won't affect them. 1/3
boatymcboatfaceplant
If you expect them to stay in their country and pay a flat, high income tax, you are counting on their socialist qualities. How many 2/3
boatymcboatfaceplant
Rich people do you know that are famous for that? The really rich bastards laugh at your laws. They just avoid them. 3/3
schlummi
Won't be good enough. At this point: tax automation might work. If we get a global minimum tax for companies of 50% or so...
boatymcboatfaceplant
Valid reasons why this is being considered. 2/2
ricpaul
When retirement age of 62 was introduced, lets say life expectancy was 72. This is what a pension is based on. So choices are: pay more now>
Rulweylan
When retirement age of 62 was introduced, the average worker produced less than half the wealth per hour worked they do today.
ricpaul
Your point being that people should unionize, strike for better pay and go for option 1 of my proposed solutions?
Rulweylan
Ideally, yes. Failing that, the government could subsidise pensions by taxing the owning class.
ricpaul
get less later, raise the rietirement age or stop payment and give a person a free loaded gun on their 72nd birthday. imho the only options.
bp920091
Or... we can tax the rich more? If GDP Per Capita is increasing or stagnant, the money is there, it just has to be found. Look to the rich.
Richter12x2
If only we Americans had as much courage as the French.
J3lek
But, but, freedom fries!
ellion0815
Yall don't lack courage, the majority lacks empathy. You will fight against each other, but not together.
MrJwinkyface
As an American my retirement plan is to work at Walmart as a door greeter till I die.
vampire49
A better plan might be to work as a teacher's aide. Pay is absolute crap but you get hugs every day.
MrJwinkyface
But then I’d feel back about stealing from work
madcatii
After you die, you can work as the door.
knowsWhereHisTowelIs
You deserve better. Never vote republican and demand truly progressive democrats instead of corporate democrats!
MrJwinkyface
Sadly our system is not designed to support that. We need ranked choice voting at all levels
vampire49
Our Walmart has done away with that job ... soooo ...
HelloImMarshall
Ours turned into someone checking receipts
MrJwinkyface
Gotta keep theft up high enough they need them to check receipts
StarmineRendezvous
As it should. Retirement should ONLY ever go lower and lower as society progresses if anything is being done right at all.
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
I think once you get to 60 or so its fair to stop lowering it and start reducing the number of hours in the work week. Yes we could 1/2
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
retire at 50, but wouldn't you rather only need to work 32 hours in your 20s, 30s, and 40s?
ImAFoxButNotReally
Population is aging. People are living more and there less young people. So less people pay retirement for more people. It's not that easy.
bp920091
If the GDP per capita is increasing or static in a country, which has been the case, that money is going somewhere. Tax the rich to fix that
GuyPilot
That shit costs money. Basic rule of policy: figure out where the funds are supposed to come from. (Macron's critics have no solution
Xooks
You clearly don't know what you're talking about
WhatTheFrog
They do. Raising all wages would to the trick, but we don't want to do that, do we? Taxing billionaires by 3% would also cover the deficit.
rulek
A big fraction of wages is paid by government, would cost them even more. Let's start at raising taxes for higher incomes and corporate prof
TheFishFace
How will "raising all wages" happen, and how will it help people in retirement who don't earn a wage?
WhatTheFrog
Greater contribution towards our pension fund, therefore greater pensions.
TheFishFace
Okay that makes sense, but how will it happen?
ZeCosmicRrope
It makes me proud to be French
FreshBundleOfStick
Macron explosion!
icanc4
I'm proud of the protesters standing up to power - but fighting to keep a public pension that starts at 62 when people are now living to 82?
Xooks
Depends on the job, rising the limit age is ok for white collar jobs but for blue collar it's not ar all acceptable. Plus the system is ...
Xooks
Not currently at risk, it might be in ~5 years, depending on salary and workforce augmentation in the country, so why touch it?
icanc4
Five years is not a long time when you're talking about funding pension plans for a population that is aging and excessively unemployed
Xooks
Again, the deficit would be like 14 billion which is very little for a country, and putting back the ISF would cover for it and more...
Okilele
We don't want to live for work. It's not only because of retirement. This reform was just the drop of water that has made the vase overflow
Okilele
And now we are f***ing mad ...
icanc4
I feel the same way. We'd all be better off if we lived more like you French. But France has more generous employment contracts 1/2
icanc4
than just about anywhere else. Who pays for it? 2/2
Kloetus
Germans with a retirement age of 67 looking across the border: "You guys get to retire?"
[deleted]
[deleted]
WhatTheFrog
Ah, casual racism :)
saucefornoreason
In USA you work until you die
dazergolf
we Krauts suck at demonstrating =(
Feralkyn
Monday all the public transport's gonna be shut the fuck down, and hospital doctors are already walked out on strike so
MmmmmSoup
66 in Australia but no one can afford to
rameniki
I’m looking at 69.5 in the Netherlands.
NoGunsNoCats
Same in the UK and being raised to 68. 18% of gov spending goes on pensions in the UK, it's unaffordable.
Zixtank
Norway concurs, though in our case, we have the opposite problem. We want to work longer.
Illendor
Germany's dealing with their own strikes atm.
Freakscar
But those are about salary. Not retirement age. Also, not anywhere near as ferocious as those in france.
Feralkyn
They're strikes, not protests.
sfcorax
They can set the age to 45 and none of us going to retire still.
uniqueusernamesarehard
The system is a bit different in France.
Neonbaron
United states "oh please i could never afford to retire"
Anhor
German here: Minimum is the key word here. 67+ is more realistic. Or do you know many with no holes in their vitae?
makeSX
Finland here: I just checked, the earlyest for me is 64y, target 67y, preferred 69y
Ghlargh
Same in Sweden, you get a higher pension the longer you wait though, unless you get retired on medical grounds of course.
makeSX
Shh, out american friends cannot understand words like that
WhatTheFrog
Ye, I'm French and there's no way I can retire with a full pension before 67, with this new law, not before 69.
RadishIsAMeat
Everyone in Europe seems to be 67+ France was the only outsider with 62
HiHowAreYou92
I'm always reminded that we should want better for the next generation. We are capable, why make things harder on our children?
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
Just because there's worse, doesn't mean this is good.
pixelsnader
Yeah I'm torn. On one hand, good for them. On the other hand, they have above average life expectancy and low retirement age, which means ☞
pixelsnader
there will be a much bigger 'grey wave' to take care of, requiring more overhead from the workforce. French birthrate IS a bit higher than ☞
pixelsnader
the EU average though (but still sub-replavement), so maybe that's enough to level the field with, say Germany.
saxon2060
We don't need younger people to sell themselves for 40 hours a week to support the old people. There's enough money in developed countries >
Fedotia
Nope, that's the minimal age. It's been explained several times.
clk62
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10k9w3z/retirement_age_in_europe_2022/
Cofrane
62 is the minimum age to retire but it does not mean you have full pension. You also need 43 years of contribution.
Cofrane
A lot of people do not retire at 62 because of that. 67 is the max age to retire with full pension whether or not you contributed for 43yrs.
Cofrane
What I mean is, do not imagine everybody gets to retire at 62, periode. That is not how our retirement system works.
Nanashi550
That's on paper. It's actually calculated by the number of years you worked.
Fralyah
As a french myself, the question isn't just about the fact that its 64 now. Its about making sure our current government knows to not (1/?)
Fralyah
Push things too far. They are passing laws by force, without a vote, just because they can. With no consideration of consequences (2/?)
Fralyah
And we're slowly going more and more towards a political regime that does whatever it wants just because they can. This is the (3/4)
Fralyah
Reason why peoples are angry. We stand up for our right to express ourselves, and to prevent dictature-like behavior from politicians. :)
MKESewerRat
If the government won't stop when millions march, they've stopped fearing the public.
tiderfish
Mucho respect my minión
TCGView
Us Americans will work even after death.
Muenyn
Playing Outer Worlds again, and damn if it doesnt instill the dread with its real worls parallels to our capitalist dystopia
J3lek
I played through cyberpunk2077. I can totally see a path from our present to that future.
Muenyn
oh ya. saw an article on smart locks that would auto lock out a renter if they were even a day late paying. got flashbacks to the the anime.
J3lek
There were articles recently about self driving cars repossessing themselves if you miss a payment too.
CheetoDustedMalcontent
They will sell my body to pay debts after I an dead. USA, USA, USA!
vidiv
EVEN IN DEATH I SERVE
anjeleyezjr
A DUTY HONOURABLY DISCHARGED...
AmericanOstrich
IT IS BETTER TO DIE FOE THE EMPEROR THAN LIVE FOR YOURSELF
MagmaCarta
*cries in American*
thatsbadmmkay
Guess I'll just work til I died and when I die they'll call me lazy
Flightmaster101
This
frederickfrancis
US Gvmnt: 62? $2500/mo. 70? $4500/mo. Me: Isn't that unfair as congress gets max after 5 yrs? US Gvmnt:
basiccricket8444
I'm surprised it's that much tbh
micicle
Well old people get sick more and american Healthcare is fucking expensive so it makes sense.
basiccricket8444
That is certainly true
RearAdmiralObvious
I got to retire at 29 after getting neared crippled. So got that going for me.
Titty5prinkles
Me too but I got bored after a decade. Went to school, got off the narcs and now am in huge debt and unemployment for getting hurt once
UmamiMama
We can't even afford to cry
BobTheWeak
Hey! Are those tears approved by HR? You need to clock out & cry off the clock.
MagmaCarta
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I cry on company time. In the bathroom stall, between Zoom meetings.
Targe0
Management:”We are bringing in a new policy, you only count as being on shift when actively working.”
MapleSyrupMafia
The bathroom time is for shitting on the clock, not for crying. Hope you don't combine both at the same time.
MagmaCarta
Nectarinebutthole
Americans get to retire?
Sensiblyinteresting
I am under 40 and do not believe I will ever be allowed to retire in the US. Officially
rbudrick
Not since the 80s, maybe.
RandyRandalman
Death is a kind of retirement I guess
dtj0002
My dad was military. Gave up his marriage, hearing, and body but he got to retire at 53.
Nectarinebutthole
I live in a major city. Most of the homeless are veterans. I wish I can do more. 1st world country my ass. ☹️
KeithSvenson
Yeah that is news to me