Lanhdanan
138891
5038
125
Jan 19, 2021 12:13 PM
Lanhdanan
138891
5038
125
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
I wonder if publishing every worker's salary would help? Exec salary shoots up b/c of comparisons to other CEOs just like with pro athletes.
DumpTrainWreck9000
"rich beyond conscience" -- beautiful phrase. Thanks for posting. I'd never read this.
nopo
I mean, he wasn't wrong. The system is broken and is in need of being fixed.
CaroleBaskingShark
Oh that's every time of year
LuminousExpanse
and stuff like this
FutureHylian
How MLK gets remembered: "black people r gud too, lets all hug <3" How he was: "America is broken. Be angry. Fix it."
nibbet360
Why choose an MLK quote that is not substantiated when there are so many you could choose that are verified.
Paratroop1969
Because it fits a narrative that the person is promoting. Facts are secondary. Although, it's safe to assume that MLK thought this way.
ontarioOT
For those upset about this quote...
TheBadDad
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mlk-capitalism-flow/
SleepIsNotMyFriend
At the end of the day.. does it even matter who said what? You either agree or you don't. Or something in between. We put too much value on>
SleepIsNotMyFriend
names. A non-famous person can say something smart and nobody cares. While a famous person says the same and we act like god himself said it
Isingwer
Also time to pretend he didn't sexually harass and assault women
CyborgScribe
He was a womanizer but I havnt seen reliable info he was a rapist.
TheBobbyPeru
Capitalism isn’t the problem, external control of our economy and constant grift is. https://www.corbettreport.com/federalreserve/
AsheLake
Capitalism inherently requires exploitation.
thefrozoneOne
That's probably why he was on the FBI watch list
Howfuckinhardisittogetausername
angryjumbus
Good thing we got Biden instead of Bernie. 4 more years of aggressive capitalism
jjunglebungle778888
CCP is in total control
realskramz
One time a person on here accused me of using MLK for racial discrimination bc I said MLK also supported economic equality of all people.
jjsjosCreator
funny none of those corporations or politicians shared this quote
PostalHeathen
Well, he's not wrong.
revelator
Well yeah, but to be fair, the wording is vague enough to be interpreted just about any way you want.
zazznz
Something about your intelligence tells me you're more likely to delete your post than explain yourself...
FuriousBakedPotato
Can you elaborate
revelator
The term "capitalism," like the term socialism, is loaded will all sorts of assumptions that vary depending on who's using it. Also what ➀
revelator
qualifies as "poor at some level," and "rich beyond conscience" are likewise vague. Certainly they're relative to time. What counts as poor➁
revelator
today in terms of material wealth may not have been considered poor decades ago, for ex. He's right that the system won't change itself. ➂
EvilCatCreations
I suppose his words could be considered vague to someone with little to no grasp on the English language.
link371
That’s not vague at all
Coreation
jesus how did you get voted into oblivion, it's a fair question :/
Penguinpoppers
Ermmm excuse me? He literally refers to "capitalism" as "this system" that needs to be changed...
Coreation
I think he's pointing at "change the system", that's pretty vague as you can go from any form of cap. to communism to do so
AbsolutelyZeroFucksGiven
MLK is like Jesus, white people created an alternate reality version to praise instead of the real black, socialist, revolutionary he was.
AbsolutelyZeroFucksGiven
Real MLK kicked way more ass than the shitty version you've had fed to you on MLK Day by corporate America.
BuckRavers
Just remember, that this 'quote' came from 1 persons memory of a conversation over 50 years later, not a corroborated source of Dr. King.
GrassssssssTastesBad
I wonder how he would have felt about Bezos and his almost trillion. V sad prolly
Lanhdanan
"Rich beyond conscience"
thatscool22
You’ll notice they didn’t kill him until he started speaking this way and wanting to improve life for all poor folks.
unsolicitedadvice
It is not necessary to agree with 100% of what a person said or did, in order to hold them worthy of esteem. Same for the Founding Fathers.
DoomSquirter
GreenGaeasSon
Doctor King was an amazing person... I prefer to remember him for all the good things he said, not call him out on his mistakes.
naytorin
That's what we're doing.
Lifk
In the past , the poor didnt have access to free information. Now the system is on the edge of collapsing because it change
iusedtodream
Aye aye captain! Time to teach capitalism to Heel, Bitch.
tzap
It's called Marxism. And it's not the demon that the rich would have you think.
Richter12x2
Everyone against Socialism points at Venezuela, and somehow misses pretty much all of Europe.
tzap
Venezuela's failure was its government, but socialism doesn't indicate the need for a strong government to make draconian choices.
tzap
Europe isn't socialist at all, welfare capitalism or social democracy are the correct terms. But yeah, Venezuela isn't very socialist either
Richter12x2
Really, what's the social part of social democracy, I wonder?
tzap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_philosophy It's about ethics of society. It's e.g. democracy that tries to have an ethical society.
ScaGBeaR
As much as racism bleeds America dry, we must realize that classism is the real issue. If we could stop fighting amongst ourselves,
TheSpatialArchitect
Classism isn't a thing. An exploiting capitalist isn't born a capitalist. But capitalists will use racism if it makes them a profit.
TheSpatialArchitect
Capitalism is inherently exploitative, and users any form of exploitation it can to advance it's profit and power. It's a race to the bottom
Beleg7
They're both real issues. Both inflame the other. You can reduce the severity of one through the other, but you can't solve them that way.
Lanhdanan
Sowing hate and discord is what the 1% do best.
dschuma
And the 99% greedily devour
ScaGBeaR
We would create an opportunity for a better standard of living, for everyone.
Py0tr77
"Divide and conquer" in combination with "Bread & games" have been working for centuries. Low education numbers is no accident.
dogwithahumanface
In America, race is class. You could be the most powerful person in the world (like Obama was) and still be considered scum because of race.
ScaGBeaR
You have disproved your own point. If race is class then Obama would have never become president.
dogwithahumanface
Um no. That implies that only people of a higher class can be president. Populist presidents have always been used to appeal to the masses.
TooOldForThisShit86
Republican elites made poor whites believe that the problem was minorities and immigrants so that they would fight for their causes. 1/2
pinktinkpixy
Yes!!! Someone gets it! Thankyou!
TooOldForThisShit86
Even in the days of slavery,poor white farmers were convinced to fight for slaves that they couldn’t afford to own. The issue is classism.
dsmegst
White America is only comfortable with the Disney version of black Civil rights leaders.
xKaraKx
The white moderate
jjunglebungle778888
That belief tells the problem with non-white persons trying to perpetuate division by color
dsmegst
Division is not the problem, inequality is.
ChristopherMcloughlin
Are you implying telling every white person how evil they are since kindergarten might be a bad idea and might cause a backlash?
Solrokr
You'd suggest allowing history just be white-washed is better? It's easy to call out a strategy and provide no legitimate alternative. 1/2
Solrokr
And in the absence of an alternative, we are left with the previous strategy: rewriting history to suit the majority's delicate senses.
ChristopherMcloughlin
There shouldn't be an alternative. They should teach history as it happened. All races did fucked up shit by exploiting the working class
ChristopherMcloughlin
I wouldn't suggest that at all. We need to know about the evils of all rulers including Napoleon, Genghis Khan, and the British as well.
sniffo
All nations with capitalism, has some form of limits on it. The US should implement some more limits, to function properly. That is all.
madpathmoth
"Function properly" is just avoiding pissing off the poor and homeless capitalism makes enough for a violent uprising.
thismademefailmyfinals
But then how will the libs be fucked over? /s
Nopearope
Libs are taking bribes! If we limit capitalism we fuck them libs over by taking their excess money! /s
TerranIV
The same can be said of Socialism.
sniffo
Of course. There is no perfect system. Capitalism has advantages. So does socialism. Both have disadvantages that must be avoided.
myg00
We just limit the poor.
LordofSandvich
Thank you. Our problem is that we're not regulating ourselves properly - and it's harder to fix as long as lobbying is legal.
Zixtank
Too bad then that those who make those decisions are the same people who benefit from the current system.
Elroydb
Our limits protect the businesses. Regulatory capture has done a number on us
TechnicallyRight
A trophy once you get 1 billion dollars. all excess is100% taxed, you giet to keep your billion, and your trophy,. you win.
JhericFury
Disagree that that should be all, but it's a good start
ghotinchips
but the free market is self-regulating! /s
asmallcat
There are things capitalism is great for (non-necessary goods). There's also things it's terrible for (utilities, healthcare, housing).
Hovencloof
Capitalism is not a form of government: it is a tool to amass capital for development.
NothingToSeeHereKeepMoving
But a free market will regulate itself. s/
neverpostsoriginalcontent
Right? Just like how it regulated the enslavement of hundreds of thousands of slaves. It's clearly a perfect system.
RickMcDick2121
Or, counterpoint, abolish capitalism completely and replace it with a system that doesn’t inherently funnel wealth to a lucky few at the top
junkgoof
And stop the crazy deregulation. Reagan, Bush II, and Trump were terrible. Clinton may have been worse. Regulation and taxes are good.
soulsource
Yeah, it's almost like infinite exponential growth (compound interest) is an unrealistic model for finite resources...
fowlersleftfoot
They did, then Reagan came along
pookieeatworld
Yup. And he said fuck the next generation, they can deal with the consequences of our actions when the time comes.
VagisilToothpaste
According to my dad that was the best thing to ever happen to this country. I laugh every time.
NomDeImguerre
All nations with capitalism, have implemented Keynes, where the US is still operating from outmoded and outdated Smithian principles.
daingead
Adam Smith would turn in his grave learning about American economic principles
al1iteration
More like the Milton Friedman principles of the 70s and 80s. No surprise one of the best presidents we ever had, FDR, relied heavily on
al1iteration
Keynesian policies to build a strong economy and lift poor people from poverty. But I am agreeing with your point.
SarcasticComment
But won't someone please think of the abused billionaires?
TheRealPumpkinQueen
BUT MUH FREEDOMS
CyanideBreathMint
So, like pre Reagan?
sniffo
Yeah.
DwightLikesManMeat
But what about the stock market? Checkmate socialist, communist, liberal reptile. /s
justamanwhoknowshowtofeel
This is the role of the Left. I would call myself a conservative, but also someone who knows that a team’s members need to challenge >
justamanwhoknowshowtofeel
> each other constantly to avoid stagnation. We need a strong Left. And not “strong” as in “overpowering”, but rather “persuasive”. There >
justamanwhoknowshowtofeel
> are plenty of initiatives that might be labeled as “Liberal”, but which have conservative appeals, if we would just be civil enough to >
justamanwhoknowshowtofeel
> articulate them on one side, and to listen in the other.
Argondey
Tbh I believe Trump was caused largely by a weakening GOP. They need to shift left and take a bite out of the center (1/2)
ViolenceInherentintheSystem
Political bylaws say you have to delete these comments because they make too much sense
sniffo
I assume you're assuming that people of all views should strive for improvement. And believe that others do too. I like those assumptions.
SephReed
Most people confuse capitalism with "unregulated oligarchies." The US issue is that our democracy is not effective. Socialism no fix that.
sniffo
Making sure that the resources you have are used to benefit many instead of few, is sort of socialism, but It's not the kind one should fear
SephReed
That's not socialism. Socialism is the gov owns most everything. Cap is people do. We live in a mix, lean towards cap.
sniffo
What do you think the purpose of the gov owning something is?
firearmofdoom
Exactly changing the system won’t solve our issues will just adjust them
xKaraKx
All nations with capitalism benefit from imperialism, wage slavery, and the exploitation of the global south
TheGrubinator
So the nations of the global south benefit from the exploitation of the global south?
xKaraKx
Yeah certain ones do. Saudi arabia benefits from america fucking up the middle east, same with israel. Brazil benefits from america
xKaraKx
Crippling every other south american nation. Australia benefits from the same trade as europe and america.
TheGrubinator
What about all the other Capitalist nations south of the equator?
myusernamebringsalltheboystotheyardandtheyrelikeitstoodamnlong
The most based thing I’ve ever seen on Imgur
AccidentalPhallacy
We had limits. Capitalism will always breed corruption. People with money will bribe and cheat and erode those limits.
ProfessorAssBlast2020
yeah the origin of corruption is capitalism. Holy fuck people are stupid
EmotionallyMagnificient
I think you mean ‘people’ will always breed corruption, which I wholeheartedly agree with
AccidentalPhallacy
I do not. While people will attempt it, certain systems lay more fertile ground than others.
EmotionallyMagnificient
Then you are deeply ignorant of history. All of it, literally.
AccidentalPhallacy
I think it is perhaps you who is ignorant of any history that doesn't involve white people.
JimStarluck
This. Any limits you place on it, it will begin working to subvert at the earliest opportunity.
xKaraKx
True
TheVenerableJudgeTaintyMcPoo
Democracy is the lever that needs counterbalance corruption. We must educate ourselves and vote for progressives EVERY election.
yetimade
Yes, but a good system should should evolve, making exploits fewer and fewer.
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
This is not unique to Capitalism though. As soon as rules are in place there will be people attempting to subvert it to their will. That >
AccidentalPhallacy
Because they fucked around with capitalism. That's what happened to Russia and China. Or there was American intervention, ie Cuba.
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
What? Russia and China were heavily exploitative systems before they "fucked around with capitalism."
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
has happened in every economic and political system since written history.
RustyNeX
yeah except the people with the power to make that happen like the big donations they are getting. the whole system needs purging
ChristopherMcloughlin
So after you destroy a system where people work for capital and use that to make purchases, what will you put in place?
RustyNeX
You think the outlines of a better system fit into 144 characters?
ChristopherMcloughlin
Nope.
RustyNeX
a social democratic republic with a resource based economy
CasualFascist
Basically the same thing except we stop letting a small group of people reap all of the reward. The working class is a cash cow >
ChristopherMcloughlin
That's still capitalism, but with a better overall model. That's why we should fix it not break it
CasualFascist
Exactly
CasualFascist
CasualFascist
Oh, and social safety nets
sniffo
I think the big donors will prefer changes to pitchforks. So it might work out fine.
JimStarluck
Don't assign them more competence than they've demonstrated. If they were willing to allow change we wouldn't be here in the first place.
sniffo
Some get it. https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming
Lanhdanan
They haven't cared much lately, and they're getting very good at crushing dissent.
sniffo
Well. Biden has until midterms to make enough change to avoid the US turning to complete shit.
Lanhdanan
He has a lot to do to make up for the shit show the last 4 years caused.
DatDarthCaedus
At least Biden's expanding some lobbying prohibitions, banning his appointees from accepting special bonuses from former employees, and 1/
DatDarthCaedus
introducing other new ethics rules. Might not be perfect, but it's at least a bigger step forward than other Presidents have done.
DatDarthCaedus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-ethics-administration/2021/01/18/56a9a97a-59bd-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html
dekket
Political system, yes. Start by getting rid of the two party system and the electoral college. There, lots of issues solved.
Nopearope
Popular vote still benefits 2-party system. Need to switch to ranked voting (or another system) before trying to remove partirs
dekket
Not necessarily. Swedens biggest party has about 25-30 percent. If they don't cooperate, their power goes bye bye.
ColClone54
Be very careful about thinking of rewriting the constitution. Good intentions but think long and hard about "what is the other side gonna
ColClone54
be able to do if it comes up to a vote?" and remember where all the money comes from and always ask" cui bono?"
LonelyHumanBoy
This, one should always practice the idea of exploiting law before implementing it to see if there are holes in its structure.
dekket
The two party system is NOT part of the constitution. And there's been amendments before, you can add more.
spooktree
you mean american healthcare shouldn't create millionaires? blasphemy /s
MichaeIScott
Who is more deserving to be a millionaire than those that innovate to save lives? It’s the mega billionaires that are the problem.
tzxAzrael
i got no problem with millionaires. it's the billionaires and multi-billionaires that are the real problem...
SavagePatchKids
So what you're saying is that American Healthcare should create billionaires /s
Micro2112
Health insurance should not overrule doctors in what treatment or med that you get
ArithmeticFascist
Until your doctor is that crazy Texas Dr. who said completely wrong stuff about COVID. Checks and balances are needed.
zazznz
Hm sounds expensive
ColClone54
HMO's, health insurance companies, etc: Yeah, it is! Thank God we're not the ones paying for it.
startedfromlurkingnowimhere
It’s wild that this has to be said
ColClone54
Gasp! Heresy! Think of the actuaries and CEO's!
yobungus
will someone PLEASE think of the shareholders
florpglorp
Fuck this thread sunds like that scene from the incredibes
BootsDusty
LuminousExpanse
and chinese, and latino.... and whites as well (Irish)... but I guess we leave those out. nah, it's about poor and rich, regardless of race
Illtrytoexplain
Hum i don't like this quote it seems really self-centered. Like "everyone suffer but we have it worst" oh and "first lol".
Illtrytoexplain
Capitalism emerge from Protestantism and industrialization, slavery is only a consequence. oh and religion is a strong part of imperialism
youcancallmethepussyslayerbutBobisfinetoo
Wasn't a major argument against slavery the fact that it was actually not more profitable for land owner than paid employees ?
TheWeebleWobler
Take into the consideration of the cost of whips. That gets expensive after a while.
tzap
Yes but this argument was probably false. It was an argument used by people who were sympathetic towards slaves, but who also opposed ..
tzap
.. going to a war over ending slavery. Slavery was hugely profitable. http://faculty.weber.edu/kmackay/economics%20of%20slavery.asp
JustSomeWelshGuy
The fact is that slaves had to be fed, housed and kept under tight security whereas you could just pay an employee so that you don't have to
JustSomeWelshGuy
Provide those things. In fact people today struggle to house and feed themselves on what little they get, so in a way we're all slaves again
ExecutorHideo
Best part: You dont need to fully pay their food or housing! Either the government pays the rest, or you just get a new slave in 3-5 days.
ExecutorHideo
In some cases, you can put the cost of living entirely on the government, while paying the slaves pennies per hour, and they have no choice!
MrJollyBear
That’s the point
Zakcl
Yup. Turns out keeping your labour prisoner is expensive and also unproductive, because they hate you. Same issue bankrupted the Soviets.
papeldude
It's kinda ironic that some people nowadays work harder than slaves and don't even earn enough to sustain themselves.
Zakcl
Turned out the Gulag couldn't pay its own way, even working people to death literally digging gold.
crazyspelling
I feel like an analogous argument is also why we no longer draft soldiers in wartime.
Zakcl
True, but then the gloves come off if the war gets big enough. Draftees might suck but they are better than no soldier at all.
johneventually1
Gotta trick them into being slaves. Sneaky
ExecutorHideo
Or get the government to subsidize your slaves cost of living while you reap the profit od their 12-cent an hour hard labor...
johneventually1
Change the laws until you have them under your thumb for generations
johneventually1
Debt slavery is self inflicted, technically, but almost unavoidable
GrimblGrombl
It was built on the backs of the exploited, but it was absolutely justified by protestant theology. Calvinism is big with conservatives.
2074red2074
Capitalism predates the discovery of the Americas and the trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was built on the exploitation of wage slaves of 1/2
dogwithahumanface
Once Europe invented private property it set out to acquire more in the form of land and people. Capitalism led to colonization and slavery.
2074red2074
Slavery has existed for thousands of years. Capitalism made slavery worse, but it didn't cause slavery.
dogwithahumanface
Chattel slavery, which is what MLK is referring to, has its origins in capitalism and the concept of private property.
2074red2074
So there was slavery, but capitalism created a new form of slavery. Would you say that... slavery existed, but capitalism made it worse?
2074red2074
varying races by the rich in Europe and the Middle East. 2/2
crazyspelling
If you think about it, who do you suppose controlled the means of production most places before the advent of democracy? Kings & nobles?
2074red2074
Pretty much, yeah. Either an imperial system or an oligarchy.
crazyspelling
Doesn'r sound very capitalist to me. Sounds a little more feudal.
mediumrare164
That’s funny. Most of Europe had a very exploitative laissez faire capitalism but not black slaves. To say it was built on slavery...
KarateCanine
Most of Europe had colonies. Full of slaves. That they exploited to enrich the homeland. Some slaves were political, religious, etc but 1/
KarateCanine
Majority were black. And for the European countries that didn't have slaves, they certainly did business with the countries who did.
dogwithahumanface
Europe absolutely had Black and brown slaves which built their wealth.
mediumrare164
On the continent?
mediumrare164
Studies show only 2-4% of gdp is from slavery. Look at germany. In tatters in 1945, largest economy in europe, no significant colonies
dogwithahumanface
If by "no significant colonies" you mean the third largest empire of the 19th Century, sure. Germany's entire history is one of conquest.
mediumrare164
look up the definition of colony. Germany only became a nation in 1870, most of the land outsi was already grabbed by other european powers.
mediumrare164
lol