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Jun 30, 2024 12:08 AM
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MutatedHorse
The whole Skywalker saga is about the prophecy of anakin bringing ballance to the force, which he did by killing all the jedi.
allnamestakenzzz
It was called the duel of the fates because Sidious told maul to kill Qui Gon at ALL costs. He discovered the prophecy and would have stopped him being corrupted by Sidious. Qui Gon was one of the only people he feared other than Anakin. Qui Gon also literally just done what he pleases whenever and pissed the council off to no end. He was perhaps the only true Jedi during the republic era as he followed wherever the force guided him and didn’t agree with the police state Jedi order.
AtsaMattaForMe
tenaka30
To be fair Palpatines plan was going ahead without Anakin. There might have been other easier ways to achieve it but Anakin being who he was and where he ended up set the path for Palpatines downfall.
TheDaharMaster
And yet they never went back for Anni’s mom in like 10 years wtf
seehemewe
In one of the books, Padme sends some handmaidens to rescue her but I think she was already with Lars
IrrelevantIrrelevant
One of the books also had Qui-gon sending her seemingly random things, and eventually he sends her something that Watto needs to pull off a big deal, and he sells her to Lars in order to get the item. Afterwards they get married.
PrfctDrk
I wish for a series hundreds of years before this where Jedi were everywhere and it focuses on some training complex or something fun
kenny2999
let qui gons be qui gons
BeerFueledAdventurer
Let Qui-gons be Bye-gons???
AtsaMattaForMe
amatte
Ahh ,star wars never stops giving
IDownvoteKhaby
Annakin: "I wanna save my mom." Jedi: "Fuck off"
Annakin: "I wanna save my wife." Jedi: "Fuck off"
Annakin: "I wanna betray the Jedi." Jedi: *Surprised Pikkachu face*
1wholurks
He did bring balance to the force.
eyesoftheearth
The Star Wars movies made after RoTJ rank for me as one of the biggest collective disappointments in cinema history.
Eiladar
Yeah, I mean; it was unrealistic to expect Phantom Menace to live up to the hype and expectations surrounding it - but it really didn't have to fail to live up to it that hard.
lrateyourrig
He did bring balance to the Force tho.
Animorphs
How? He killed the only Sith Lord and then died all that was left where what little Jedi teachings Luke had. Wouldn’t balance be all teaching and understandings of the force be equal?
mayhemonroads
How...? He killed All relevant and strong Jedi Masters (with some help from Clones), then, he killed (theoretically) strongest Sith, Palpatine, and, died. Leaving behind insignificant leftovers on both sides of The Force. Balance restored. How, the hell, Luke became such a overpowered Force wielder, is a mystery. Rey is a joke, to be clear. Kylo... No comments.
sans3go
The Jedis incorrect interpretation of balance, was the elimination of the Sith. Vader destroyed the Jedi order and Anakin destroyed the emperor. Luke is more of a grey Jedi, (center-light?) where he would use darkside abilities along with his lightside skills.
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
The "chosen one" story was probably the worst decision in Star Wars. People (rightfully) shit on midichlorians, but that barely had any impact on the story. If was a bad decision that's easy to ignore. The Chosen One bullshit is way more impactful and hurts the story far more, imo.
STEMinist
Too bad the council didn’t warn about letting the franchise be purchased by Disney.
SpaceMarineWithAnUrgeToPurge
Disney hasn't done any worse with the franchise than Lucas, let's be honest.
ScarecrowSticks
I would definitely watch more of Jar Jar Binks before seeing more Disney Made knockoff.
Selerox
Original Trilogy. Rogue One. Andor. That's basically it.
qtRaven
They really have. Character Assassination of Luke Skywalker being the worst. But there is a LOT of terrible writing to go through.
AchDuLieber
You mean the classic line "Somehow... Palpatine returned."? Some grade A wordsmithing there.
AchDuLieber
How to tell me you didn't see episode 9, without telling me you didn't see episode 9.
MrSlater
Genuinely can't decide if the McGuffin-dagger from ep 9 or nine-year-old Anakin having built C3PO in ep 1 is dumber. They're a different kind of dumb but approximately equally annoying. So it's not so clear cut if prequels or sequels are objectively worse.
RyanH42
They put more black people and women in things and that's bad to Star Wars fans.
ToSisPoS
And the Acolyte with BOTH. I’ve not seen so many young men shit their pants since the brown note episode of South Park.
plinkey
I loved this part of star trek.
J3lek
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semiAutomaticFun
I don’t know why these make me laugh so hard.
lordsupafly
*Battlestar of the Rings
tarataqa
I came here to upvote the truth.
iLikeRainyDays
This isn't actually star trek at all. Quite embarrassing how many people get this wrong. It's Stargate.
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ActionJohnnie
PPam7
I’ve never seen this. It’s awesome!
Volpe42
He did bring balance though. After him there wasn't a massive outbalancing of light over dark
idiotsonfire
Balance is when there's no darksiders, not equal numbers of light siders and darksiders. Darksiders using the dark side causes imbalance.
idiotsonfire
By their very existence, the Sith and darksiders cause imbalance in the force.
Gamerseye72
I haven't watched the newer stuff so maybe this has officially changed, but balancing the Force isn't about Light vs Dark. The Dark side uses the Force for personal gain, creating and imbalance, and the Light side is about shepherding and obeying the Force, creating balance.
SharkoutofWata
That’s true, from a certain point of view. Kinda a recurring thing in Star Wars that what you think is not the only way something can be taken. Anyone can be too clouded by what they want to see that they miss what’s really happening or even what they’re doing to influence it.
Albertorius
Yeah, I mean... what were you expecting that would happen?
spiritplumber
yep that's the part i don't get. the prophecy was obviously something to be avoided not fulfilled
Randomman96
No, it was absolutely something to be fulfilled. The Dark Side and the Sith in Star Wars is inherently imbalanced. It's existence IS an imbalance to the Force. The Dark Side represents corruption and consumption. The Light and the Jedi sought balance, coexistence, stability, existence alongside the Force. The Dark and Sith sought corruption, destruction, dominance, over others and the Force. It's not any of the "same coin", nor has there been any of the Grey Jedi nonsense because the dark-
Randomman96
is inherently imbalanced and corrupting.
astrangehop
The Jedi had become weak and corrupt. Maybe they needed to be destroyed.
mercyPandaRunner
Maybe they were just the other side of the coin. One given to let passions and emotional impulses rule them supreme, essentially the supreme egoists. The other dedicated to eradicate their own emotions and passions, essentially the supreme self-deniers. One incapable of caring for others. One incapable of being anything else but a tool for others, to the point they let themselves be coopted by the government as some kind of law enforcement.
No wonder the living force was ripped in two pieces.
mercyPandaRunner
Unless, the Jedi order is part of the problem.
You see Yoda, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan practicing a way less... dogmatic version. Other Jedi we see are different. While the sith give themselves up to passion, the Jedi go to the other extreme and outright suppress and deny their own passions and emotions, right down to compassion and love.
Where the Sith are the meth addicts, the Jedi are the Puritan zealots.
If you look at Lukes Jedihood, it is actually neither of those. Luke isn't denying that>
Volpe42
Quigon actually followed the force rather than the dogma of the jedi
mercyPandaRunner
he is a human being. Where the old Jedi only knew one singly minded response to encountering a Sith ("Kill it" And they even say "it") Luke saw them as people who got lost. He appealed to them and even manage to bring Anakin Skywalker back from the mental abyss. Vader killed Palpatine and died himself in the process, finally bringing balance to the force. A balance resting in the hands of a new kind of Jedi.
Well, and then Disney happened.
Buddisvata
That's not how the force works. At least not in original canon. The "light" side is the force itself. The dark side is a misuse of the force, basically just a twisted offshot. Balance of the force means no major dark side, not dark and light being equal.
MrLeggy
Someone explained it to me like this. Your body isn't in balance if it has an equal number of cancerous and none cancerous cells
Buddisvata
The way Anakin "broguth balance" was by eliminating the last of the Sith, Palpatine. The sacrifices made to achieve that were not necessarily part of that equation. Not that the sequels or any other extended media that kept adding sith got that.
Rathan5
I can live with that take for the films, but I like the idea of Jedi and Sith both being users of legitimate aspects of the Force that underpins all existence (life isn’t all “light”, after all), with Grey Jedi between to give a more rounded out spectrum of forceusers
Buddisvata
Grey Jedi are a failure of understanding how the force works, which makes it so ironic that they have become a popular concept in the fandom. Basically, the entire point of the dark side is that it is self-destructive and corrupting. There are no dark side users who actually stay good. The only way for them to stay good is to stop tapping into the dark side. The major examples of "grey jedi" are all actually normal light side users. Qui Gon Jin is a normal Jedi. 1/2
Buddisvata
When he was refered to as a "grey Jedi" in those comics/books that was the original term Grey Jedi, which just meant a Jedi who goes against the Council. Not someone who is somehow inbetween light and dark. Quigon is 100% against the dark side or using it in every iteration. 2/2
capnadorable
The whole thing was quigons fault
NairouTryyshokk
Not completely but partly yes. Palpatine was already making the clone army via sifo dias, and pushing the trade fed to start the seperitst movement.
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BeerFueledAdventurer
Qui-gon was following the Will of the Force... this was the Force's fault. Maybe Kreia had a point....
TyrannusEquus
Maybe they should have gotten his mother out? I'm sure leaving here there was not helping his situation at all.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
I mean, Palpatine was out there, doin stuffs, manipulatin' politics, makin' Darth Maul... Now, Jarjar? That's all Quigon.
DSREX
Darth Jar Jar, he did have Sith eyes. Lived on Naboo when Palpatine was being trained in the Sith ways. Was in exile from his people, for who knows what. Going off what he did on screen he has force powers. And it was his vote that ended the Republic.
Dude was evil from end to end.
EternallyIgnorant
Basically "The Mule" from The Foundation Series (book)
Colanah
An Asimov Foundation series reference in the wild? Today shall be GLORIOUS!❤️
DSREX
All hail Asimov. I started watching Trek then reading Asimov.
I love my fantasy and my hard science.
I really love my Shadow Run, it is like they are both in a bowl all mixed up.
AwetasticAdventures
I mean, it was kind of all Yoda's fault. As grandmaster of the entire jedi order and head of the jedi council, to have gotten complacent and ignoring all of the signs, he let everyone down.
BobaFettApproves
onecowboytoo
Obi Wan could have killed Anakin twice and didn't close the deal.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Qui-Gon made the initial error of judgement, and then Obi-Wan made the same. But it was the council that allowed it to happen, when the explicit goal of a council is to not make decisions based on single person's opinions.
They allowed Anakin in, and despite all of their justified ojections they put in no extra safeguards. No additional trainers, no extra psych evaluations, no oversight for Obi-Wan as a completely inexperienced teacher. Nothing.
The biggest fuckup was on the side of the council.
Jenvas
The way the Jedi were raising kids, it was only a matter of time to get an Anakin-situation.
wabitgirl
Which is the defining theme of the entire prequel trilogy. The Jedi Council is not corrupt, per se, but complacent and conceited, too sure of their hold on peace and their knowledge of the galactic stage. That complacency is why the Sith were able to come back to power undetected, and why Palpatine was able to do so much nefarious shit right under the Jedi's collective nose.
They thought they had it all on lock till they got shot in the back (literally in many cases)
darkdragonempress
I don’t think Qui-Gon made an error in judgement. Anakin was a good kid. He had a desire to help. He saw good in the world. He wanted to protect people. For an order that is supposed to bring forth peace and protection, he’s a fantastic starting candidate. The error is that the Jedi Order taught emotional suppression. It’s why they took kids so young. So emotional attachments couldn’t be manipulated. Had they taught emotional processing, Anakin could have coped with his pain. He could have 1
vwyx
He also saved all their asses time and time again. No Anakin, no Republic. Yes Anakin, still no Republic. It was a bloated mess.
darkdragonempress
Not exactly gotten over his pain, but he could have found peace. Honestly the loss of Qui Gon was especially bad because he seems to have been one of the few that actually did practice emotional regulation. He likely tried to teach Obi but there hadn’t been enough time to fully pass it down. So when Obi got Anakin as an apprentice, he wasn’t able to fully teach him it either. The books and shows had a lot of implication that Palpatine won because the Jedi dropped the ball. 2
4vie
I recall someone making the comparison to Obi-Wan being a C-student being forced to tutor an A-Student, Anakin. Decent comparison, in my mind
TheCryptid
The dual of Obiwan/Quigon/Maul is called Dual of the Fate because it determined the fate of Anakin
If Quigon survived and stayed alive as a father figure for Anakin, it would have gone very differently.
Obiwan killed Maul but the death of Quigon sealed Anakin's fate.
I swear George Lucas had something very good in mind that he really failed to execute because of his ego and need to do it all himself. The prequels could have been so much better, the foundation for a solid trilogy was there.
ToastedEggSandwich
If you're interested in a very solid version of the prequels, check out the Darkwar trilogy by Glen Cook. Came out in the mid 80s and the similarities are striking - you can pretty easily see where a much better version of the prequel trilogy could have gone.
shorey66
There a great re edit where the bulk of the story for the prequels revolves around obiwan and his need for revenge against maul. It's amazing. Less trade disputes and corny forced love story, more badass sassy obiwan
Quessir
Been watching some videos on YouTube that claim Qui-Gon scared Palpatine, because he was different from the other Jedi. At first I was sceptical but they make some interesting points. We know that had he survived he would have provided the parental figure Anakin needed - Palpatine wouldn't get a look in and the contentious older/relationship he and Obi-Wan had that was no replacement for his mother wouldn't happen. A key line was given in Attack of the Clones that's almost a throwaway line by >
Quessir
Dooku - "...he knew all about the corruption in the Senate". Palpatine would have no chance to influence Anakin because Qui-Gon would've kept him far away from him. So it really was Duel of the Fates - had Qui-Gon lived, Darth Vader would never appear. Maul focuses entirely on Qui-Gon throughout and only deals with Obi-Wan when he has to - I always thought it was because he's facing a Jedi Master, but orders from Palpatine to kill Qui-Gon at all costs make sense now.
JamesFaction
*duel. Dual just means two. English sucks
TheCryptid
yeah my bad. Im french, I speak english just fine but sometimes things like that just slips by me, even in my own language
DSREX
Quigon rushed the fight, Maul was trying to escape and lead him into, he had more wisdom than that. He was already fatigued by the time they got to the laser doors.
I get the intention that Lucas was going for, but Quigon had the battle experience to not fall for Maul's attempts to separate him from his backup.
Putting Obi in a bad spot and having Quigon sacrifice himself to save his apprentice, that would have been perfect.
HappyPetunia
To be fair to Obi Wan, he wasn’t ready to train anyone, much less Anakin. He’d been a padawan himself one day, then the next day he was given a padawan of his own who had issues that were never addressed.
And to be fair to Anakin, his issues were never properly dealt with, because people who trained as Jedi from infancy didn’t have those issues. Telling someone to “let go” over and over is not therapy.
TheCryptid
yeah, you'd think the jedi would have taken better care of the traumatised overpowered child who's prophesied to do some epic galactic scale power shift in the force instead of just dismissing him.
The jedi religion was really shit tbh
BryanLaserEpee
I think there's a lot of fault with Lucas and obviously no longer being married to a very good script doctor hurt him but to say his ego made him want to do it himself is blatantly false. He asked several other people to direct. He was encouraged by those people to do it all himself.
DSREX
Prequels should have had a director and script editor who were not George. Episode 1 had so much junk in it, the Kid Ani should have been a intro half the movie. They should have made the battle for Naboo take 10 years. Ditch the GunGuns completely not just Jar Jar. Ani as a mature figure comes back in the clone war era and frees Naboo, fulfilling the promise he made to Padme. Ani should never have been a whiner. Grievous should have been the villain the whole time, Sith behind the scenes
Volpe42
Fates
JayDeeDubs
And then on his death bed made his apprentice promise to train Anakin, so yeah, still Qui-gon's fault I'd say.
TheCryptid
Oh, I wasnt arguing it wasnt his fault XD just threw some fun fact in there.
It was definitely fucked up to put obi-wan who just turned to a knight into his master, especially since he just seemed to hate Anakin from the moment Quigon "adopted" him
IrrelevantHandle
Well, Qui-gon kinda dumped him right in front of the council when he did it. I know we're kinda ignoring the expanded universe for the sake of this conversation but in the books Jin was *super* fucked up. Like, he was kinda a dick in the movie, but in the books he once abandoned Obi-wan (aged 13) on a planet at war as children were being slaughtered by their parents because his girlfriend was dying.
oneloverasta
Have you ever watched the animated clones wars tv show? If not I cannot recommend it enough to anyone who is a Star Wars fan, even if animation is not really your thing the story is well worth the watch. So much backstory about how things went wrong with Anakin
DarthGoodguy
Anybody else reading this who wants to maybe watch: maybe try season 2 episode 5 “Landing at Point Rain” & see how you like it. A stand-alone war action story.
SuperSaiyanYamcha
The Genndy Tartakovsky short where Anakin dueled Ventress in the rain.
*chefs kiss*
TheCryptid
Oh yeah, watched it multiple times and loved it to death.
It really "fixed" a lot of stuff with the prequels, especially Anakin himself for sure.
But judging the prequels as a separate entity (especially at the time of release when CW didnt exist) there were so many shortcomings and plot issues
NonWellKnownImgurian
There was also the 2D animated Clone Wars show that aired between the prequels to fill in some of the gaps storywise
NCPBullet
Fixed is the correct word. Theres so much about anakin in the movies that to the viewer is completely ungrounded. A fantastic jedi? Kind? Kenobi thought of him as a brother? He really turned to the darkside over a bad dream and no promotion?
In the show his fall to the darkside is more gradual but more certain. His growing disdain with the war. His piled up loses of his clones and thoses loses weighed on him. The way the jedi consul handled almost everything as a knee jerk reaction.
NCPBullet
Especially jedi's handling of asoka being framed and then immediately expelled. He slowly convinced himself that they were doing it wrong (they were) and that only he could do it right ( he should have been pressing for change instead leting his frustrations fester in him) and then Sidius used that and his fear of losing his wife to push him beyond hope and have him join the sith
J3lek
I watched all of it. So much of it felt like filler stories and I didn't like the animation style. Is there like a condensed list of essential Anakin story episodes. I recall the weird episode where he had to choose between being the "all father" of the force and becoming the chosen one or leaving to save his friends but he would forget about the "Force God" planet and his role and fall to the dark side. He chose the second option.
marsilies
I found a few lists of Essential Episodes that others have done. Here's one /gallery/clone-wars-essentials-VtDC6E3
marsilies
Here's another. /gallery/clone-wars-essential-viewing-guide-v1-hyperum-ti63gZz
J3lek
That's perfect. Thank you.
DarthGoodguy
I also thought it had a lot of repetitive filler eps (probably bc I wasn’t a 5-10 year old boy) & made a list of essential eps for for a friend, I can find it if you want
Trollero
.
LeGrandePimmler
I too would be much interested in the existence of such a list =)
tocfanke4
Somehow Maul returned....
Slots
Never trust tossing your enemies into pits. The all come back. Palpatine, Maul, and Boba Fett all came back from falling into pits.
somethingsomethingwittyhere
Yes, that's a common pitfall in the Star Wars cannon.
blitzzer
Or bisecting them, apparently.
akaBruceWayne
100%. Luke fell down the Cloud City pit thing and Kylo fell down some pit in the sequels
JamesFaction
The fact that Palpatine was the main villain in ep 9 sucked so much. No imagination at all
Maverickaura
To be FAIR, maul wasn't JUST thrown down a pit. He was cut in half first. I feel like any reasonable person wouldn't feel the need to double tap that, the pit WAS the double tap.
Slots
Maul won't bleed out due to it being instantly cauterized by the lightsaber. If a Zabrak can survive after getting bisected is up for debate. Probably hurt like hell though.
Hypothesist
so mace windu lived?
Slots
Maybe. He could have time traveled back 4000 years and became Jolee Bindo.
J3lek
Nah, he was thrown out a window.