SolarFlaair
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Math skills through life
Dec 23, 2023 1:40 AM
SolarFlaair
87535
1248
14
Math skills through life
grantbaines0
Math teacher in 98: "it's not like you're gonna walk around with a calculator in your pocket"
Noughmad
To be fair, I would put Excel up there with the wheel and steam engine.
blinkie79
Yeaaahh... I work with math (geometry and algebra mostly) in CNC cutting and we don't do ANY math by hand. There's a reason that computers exist, because they're faster, smarter and more consistent. And far less likely to screw up and crash a million dollar machine because they got tired at the end of a long shift.
bripi
As a physics teacher, with a Masters degree....I must concur. I spent an hour on a statistics question because I didn't know what stat function to use on the Ti-84. And neither did the student I was supposed to be helping. fmitga
DidItForScience
Spreadsheets should be higher up for sure.
OstafTheGreat
I got a masters in data analytics. Spent much of my education coding, reading statistics, and displaying complex visualizations. All this preparation for one purpose…Pivot tables.
barnwolf
Pivot tables are pretty awesome though.
OstafTheGreat
They are pretty functional. Sometimes When things get really spicy, I will pull out tableau. I do wish I had more experience with SQL. Although I have used SQL packages in python, I don’t work in a coding environment.
nememorifacias
unpopular opinion: i think everyone should take calc as a learning tool for nonlinear thinking.
Vidikron
Got a minor in math since I only needed two for courses to get it. Went through differential equations (calculus 4) since my prof was a fantastic teacher and she was very easy to look at. 30 years later I have to take my shoes off to count past ten.
VodkaReindeer
And your pants off to think back on what you learned
goflyblind
d*F = J
aishamaria
GuyleDoucheFieldReporter
Yup. Had to take calculus 1 and 2 in college. I have literally never used anything I learned in that class in my career. I use algebra, geometry and excel.
CitrusyGarlic
I got as far as pre-Calculus and said "Nope, my brain don't bend that way"
PimpoMatic
I thought that Geometry came after Algebra
Sufferwell
It adds up and if not then @sum it.
drduffer
This is spot on. In fact, I’m so dumb in math now, I think I’ve actually forgotten more math than I ever even learned.
SpaceForGold
I like to think that all that math learning was actually about mental elasticity. As in, stretching your brain to figure out how the weird and wonderful (ish) world of math works translates somehow to interacting and mechanics of life.
drduffer
True. In learning Calculus, I had a breakthrough moment where I could see the rate of change of natural systems (Biological, for example) in differential equations. All of a sudden it made sense and after that it was easier. Sadly, without regular use, it couldn’t last.
BasinStreetDesign
EE here: I mastered everything on that chart in school. During 40 years working I never used any more than a 4-banger calculator but wished I could. Hardest theoretical book I ever saw was on topology. I couldn't get past the first chapter.
TheUnstoppableWampas
well yeah, the point of doing all that math in college was so you could know what to ask excel to do AND know when the answer was off.
SomeGuyWhoSaysStuff
I work as a designer in civil engineering, our software does most of the math for us, we do the easy stuff when it is faster to do so
jeffhendo
Engineer. Haven’t used anything beyond basic algebra and trig in 25+ years on the job. Had to struggle through differential equations and comp fluid dynamics to get my degree.
WhyisnoIDavailable
donno what you work in now, but I've been an engineer for ~7y and definitly used everything I learned in math except for topology since I started :/
DoNotQuitYourDayJob
I never use physics, biology, or chemistry in my work or my daily life. However, the remains of what I learned ensure I don't fall for snake oil and scams that break the laws of reality. E.g. "dilluting" a spec of duck liver in water way past the point any of it would remain will not magically cure common cold.
StopBreathingOnMeYaIdgit
I would set the apex of the curve to Abstract Algebra.
jimmythehat1
I went pretty far beyond Calculus, which I loved. The more advanced stuff was like Cal but in multiple dimensions, but I didn't go as far as my brother who majored in it. Most of the higher level classes were all about proofs which got insane. Just pages and pages of proofing just for one question
disposabledom
I want to see Formal Logic on this curve
Iowyn
Sounds to me like a lot of people with actual math skills aren't using spreadsheets to their full extent.
Xenarion
This.
daverbeans
I’m offended we left differential equations and linear algebra off the list.. I mean I guess they could be in the spreadsheets..
Ikwilstroopwaffels
Linear Algebra was the course that nearly broke me. My god did I hate that class.
03448203970326357609
Differential equations is the class that made me decide a minor in maths was enough and changed program.
CheshirePhoenix
I used trigonometry exactly once in my life outside of school, and that was to figure out the size bracket I would need to corner-mount a TV. I wanted to be able to swivel it enough so I could see it from both my bed and desk. Turns out, it was easier to just move my desk and bed.
Zzap1
I use trigonometry in both my free time and at work. Free time to calculate angles and lengths while cutting boards and such for building things, and at work to do solar panel calculations :)
dashers
Yeah, it was useful to know that it's possible, I can't remember the sums, but I know which calculator to Google.
IToldYouSo1
🤣
Zreen
"what's makes excel like incel? Thinking something is a date."
AceOfShovels
I will defend excel as better than any bullshit ERP system I've ever seen
barnwolf
Hey, if you can write SQL queries to read from an excel file (you can) then it counts as a DBMS!
03448203970326357609
I.... guess? Just an extremely inefficient one...
barnwolf
Eh, if your data is small enough to fit inside an excel file efficiency isn't really a concern.
BojanglesTheFlyingCar
What if I told you that there are a LOT of healthcare it analysts that are not working in SQL or BI SOFTWARE, but instead in Excel?
QotU
I’d feel a lot safer
PickleRiiiiiiiiiiiiick
I mean, Access, not Excel. Excel isnt a dbase mgmt sys.
080080
Higure
https://youtu.be/yb2zkxHDfUE and the follow-up https://youtu.be/zUp8pkoeMss
IToldYouSo1
Eron
xizar
scientists literally changed naming conventions for genes because excel would "autocorrect" them to dates.
HandoB4Javert
"proper tools"
xizar
Yes, Microsoft is a proper tool for waiting until this year to let you turn "feature" that off.
jzastrow
Well Excel is probably the best piece of software Microsoft ever released so, I'm ok with it
gesel
Trying to move the world to LibreOffice calc. Having trouble with the single tab trace precidents/dependents limitation. :-(
ServerMonkeyKing
Laughs in the civilian and military sector's usage of PowerPoint.
ThomasThundersword
as a rabid onenote fan (the 2007-2010 versions. the modern version is trash) i gotta agree, excel is absolutely their best.
Lovethesmelloftoastedsourdoughbread
VP Planner for the win.
AceOfShovels
I will defend excel as better than any bullshit ERP system I've ever seen
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
If you don't mind size limits and limited utility. I like excel but SQL is WAY more robust.
Emriys
No cross checks no sanity checks no sterilized input no parallel work with advanced automation (office script can suck my ass). Excel os good as a tool for what it is, but an ERP is just a necessity. Excel is humans, and humans fuck up a LOT.
NappaTheFriendlyGhost
It’s all fun and games until you work at a job that makes you learn to use something else. Let me tell you about LibreOffice’s spreadsheet software. It’s just excel except not as well made and all of the keyboard shortcuts are different.
Nual
I love excel, but... I've seen it crash too often when you're using multiple tabs with tens of thousands of values each. Tbf I didn't build the sheet, so maybe other factors were in play. *Shrug* now good ole AS400...
ServerMonkeyKing
Y'all need Database Jesus.
Countofsnark
What does Erotic Role Play have to do with this?
prizeant
Enterprise resource planning
Rongeong
It's not as good as excel for storing data tables.
Promethianfire
I'm curious how many jobs require a degree that involves advanced calculus yet don't require at least a rudimentary grasp of calculus at times.
sirdouglasbuttersworth
Mining engineering, for one. But yeah, what that guy said. Thinning the herd of prospectives
WhyisnoIDavailable
a lot of jobs *might* need it, depending on the direction you take it in, but usually won't. doubly true for jobs where you are not actually formed while in school but directly on site because they change a lot and very fast, so what they teach you is what you might need to learn the new job faster instead of having to retake courses every time
SpaceForGold
What the hell is calculus!
OneBabyOneHamburgerBun
A surprising lot of them. It's often used as a weeding course to pad dropout rates.
Promethianfire
Lame
whatsisname
95% of the value of learning calculus and higher order math isn't so you remember integration by parts or can calculate a shell or something, but what it does in developing your brains analytical skills. People without it can sometimes simply not be capable of grasping how to solve various challenging problems, the tools aren't in the mental toolbox.
Promethianfire
I hear that. This is true for pretty much all math. That said, I'm fairly decent at analytical thinking and problem solving, yet quite terrible with higher math. I worked harder for the D- I got in advanced algebra than any A I ever earned. The classes that seemed to develop my analytical thinking the most were English/ lit and history.
ButIWanttobeanonymous
Spreadsheets can be pretty damn insane.
JCBalance
My favorites are the ones that map temperature change through a solid by drawing the object cross section in the cells and putting the equation for each discreet part of the object in each cell. Those are cool.
MileysVirus
The coolest thing I learned how to do in Microsoft excel 97 was the secret flight simulator.
Asadsadsadclown
People really have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDGdPE_C9u8
IToldYouSo1
TieflingDelivery
Shudders in mortgage amelioration table*
SimiKusoni
Amortization, or is this something else I've not heard of?
IToldYouSo1
Them freak in the sheets 🤣
Cilvaa
zipbangcrash
Level with me... How bad is it that I'm a little turned on right now?
bardman135
Not more bad than most. I'd say you're just about =AVERAGE().
subrad
=COUNTIF(COMMENT:COMMENT,“BURN”)
hockeykeeperkit
Want
The4thsurvivor
They call me the king of the spreadsheets. I got 'em all printed out on my bed sheets
SilentShift
As an Eve Online player, I have created some well oiled abominations against nature in the name of efficiency in Excel and Google Sheets.
Lynkfox
It's time to put those away and start building Auth plug-ins that do that for people.
080080
Onlyforthiscomment
Fuck yee brotha
shponglefan
Only when used for things they should never be used for.
PanickedShrieking
I had a sheet in which I'd made a large map of the state and all of its hundred-something counties, rigged so that each of the individual counties' colors would change as the input lists were updated. It was absurd, and I loved it.
LehmanParty
I administrated basically an entire 3DCart merchant website with Excel and csv imports. The entire company data infrastructure was Excel, QuickBooks and a physical payroll/employee records cabinet. And it was hell on earth
dwilson0725
Like playing Doom?
cosonfused
there is this dude that once made an actual game in Excel. Hell, they turned Excel in an E-sport for crying out loud.
ChampionofChristmas
I built one for dnd that does *most* of the work of building your character with minor input. Put in your stats, select your equipment and skills, and read the reference it pulls up if you need. Pages of info and equations!
Nykidemus
same! I had it all set up so you could toggle common combat buffs on and off. It was magical.
ChampionofChristmas
How did you set up your buff toggles? I'm still ever building mine, and that's one of the things I need to do still!
Nykidemus
T/F checkbox that turns on a conditional that adds the buff bonus into a buff calculation page in a column for whatever type of bonus it is, then each bonus type is collected and added into the relevant calculations.
Nykidemus
Mine is way simpler than this, but if you can parse the stuff on Pathfinder Autosheet, that's where the real excel wizardry happens. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LcnTaz2oalJGr0H7e7g5DdI1EqQRK0-P2Ra9v1WiLrQ/edit#gid=1867984558
dangerspouse
I use one to randomly generate random items for vendors, with varying levels of magic items, and another for randomly generating names of shopkeepers in town along with their race/traits/etc. It makes it really easy to fly by the seat of my pants when DMing
dangerspouse
randomly generate random items. nice work, genius.
ChampionofChristmas
Lol bro we've all been there, don't be so hard on yourself!
ftzo
mid-career math phd here. I gotta admit I've used way more calculus than I had expected. ODE solvers in my first couple jobs, MCMC integration in a few more jobs. A few jobs working on automatic differentiation (AD) for computational statistics. Tech papers computing Gaussian integrals. Even now I'm using AD for prompt orchestration. so much calculus
rbudrick
Sounds like you science hard. Like so, so fucking hard. Hnggh. Or something. I don't fuckin know.
TheHolyFatman
I hated math as a kid, I just couldn't memorize what they wanted me to. I went to art school to get away from it, so.. naturally, I became a statistician. 🤣
ftzo
Haha, I hated history as a kid, I just couldn't memorize what they wanted me to. I studied math and physics. naturally I now spend my free time reading history :)
TheHolyFatman
Yep. I learned while in college that math and art are linked..and something in my brain clicked. Art helped foster the belief that math was a good and interesting thing. It's sad that no teacher made that distinction to a struggling student, I needed to pass that test, not explore the conceptual applications of mathematics. Back in my day, calculators were forbidden..and my brain was dumb for that stuff.
neonkrypton
Engineering PhD in R&D. I rarely use calc but knowing the concepts is valuable.
HelpfulCorn
I only ever used linear algebra and some graph theory. That was a good one though, proved to the person who wanted it that the feature they wanted is to build was an np-complete problem
TsubakiTragic
math is the only subject that never lied to me. english is total b/s.
MechEStevens
You obviously never took statistics aka “how to lie with math”
TsubakiTragic
math never lies, but those who manipulate data to achieve an end are little more than stoats and weasels.
MechEStevens
100%
AJMansfield
For sure — I've used ever bit of group theory I've learned doing crypto and algorithms work, and wish I had learned more.
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
Former mathematician turned musician here: what's prompt orchestration? You seem to have mixed my two worlds.
ftzo
sorry, prompt orchestration = frameworks for organizing prompts in large language models, like langchain. but there is a lot of math overlapping with music. i once had the privilege if working at a piano company with a couple brilliant Stanford CCRMA grads who applied crazy complex math to audio signal processing and synthesis. last i heard one worked at apple, the other at smule
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
oh there is definitely a lot of common ground between math and music (that's my area of study, actually), I just had never heard of prompt orchestration. Cool to learn about it.
terajack2048
AI training stuff brings back all the matrix and vector stuff…… I never thought I used that in real life…
FlowVector
PhD student here (math finance, basically statistics) any tips for someone entering the work force in a few years fresh from school?
ftzo
Assuming you enjoy math. Set expectations: industry is full of grunt work and politics, so relish the times you do get to do math. Seek colleagues from different backgrounds BUT enough shared math background so you can communicate. Don't be a math snob: there are interesting theory problems in even the most unglamorous places (e.g. modeling false positive rate in automated software tests), and you won't see the beauty until steeping in the mess for months.
PimpoMatic
Get an understanding and how to program. Most likely any job that you are involved with that requires that much math, they will require you to translate that knowledge into an app or system. Think of AI engines (Hottest trend). For Finance math, if you land on the right job, they would prob ask you to help design or train AI to spot financial fraud or financial errors. There is so much human induced errors in financial systems, hence why there is so much audits being required out there.
grentacular
I did work in computer graphics for a while so I used a decent amount of the linear algebra I learned in college. I'd wager those of us still using college-level math are more the exception than the rule, though lol.
MarriNikari
The last time I used math at work, I had to explain to colleagues why swapping "highest pay tier is 100%, lowest pay tier is 80% of that" does not reverse into "lowest pay tier is 100% so highest pay tier is 120% of that"
GaloisGroupie
Sounds like the graph has the same shape but a much greater scale
ftzo
Do you foresee an impending descent to spreadsheets?
sidequestlife
End of career path, well into upper management, the only real thing you do now is answer emails and tell sharon when to buy a cake for someone in the office. You keep track of this information on a spreadsheet.
LehmanParty
Some day you'll feed a data set csv into a computational processor and realize the prophecy came true
QuitLookinAtMineAim
How much do you have to work out by hand? Calculus is awesome.
ftzo
Every month or two I'll hand compute something. More often I code up rules to automatically compute derivatives or integrals or statistical quantities, or cast real world problems in terms of those rules.
MechEStevens
I basically failed math in HS thought it wouldn’t be useful. 5 years later decided I wanted to be a mechanical engineer. Started back at basic algebra and finished my undergrad. Worked in industry for 7 years then decided I wanted my Masters degree because I wanted to better understand and apply computational fluid dynamics. Half way done with my MSME now. Math is beyond amazing. It doesn’t matter how much you learn it will continue to challenge you. It is everywhere!
CanadianFurr
Just finished my first semester of mech eng. with less-than-great passing marks. Any tips for the materials/chemistry stuff? There's so many formulas to memorize.
MechEStevens
My university had some very good free tutoring services. See if yours has the same. Also highly recommend study groups. References and guides are good to a point but can be the best advice I can offer from my experience is to avoid rote memorization. Focus on concepts and relationships and your recall will follow. I also limited myself to four classes a semester while working very part time. Some programs suggest more but I think it can be a mistake. There is no reward for burn out.
MechEStevens
Also feel free to DM anytime if you are struggling. I’ll try to point you in the right direction.
AlbaneinCowboy
And to think I have a hard time telling which number is a 6 or a 9 most days. I have dyscalculia, I really wish I could do math.
xizar
Now if, uh, six turned out to be nine, oh I don't mind... I don't mind.
xizar
(For the whippersnappers who don't catch that, maybe you need to be a be like Axis: Bold as Love.)
ftzo
Gosh I have "transpose dyslexia" doing linear algebra: I can't for the life of me see whether a matrix or its transpose belongs in an expression. I've had to lean on Einstein notation, unit tests, and smart colleagues to do any matrix math.
AlbaneinCowboy
I dont remember the flavor of dyslexia i have. For me B and D are the same letter. Then when it comes to pronouncing words I've never seen I can't do it. Like I just don't know which group of letters go together to make a sound. Then a bunch of other bullshit.
TheHolyFatman
Wait...this is real? WTF? like seriously...this was my issue! I was just called lazy! I still have a problem with greater/less than and I still cannot add simple numbers in my head. I calculate tips on my fingers or by tapping. The Internet and excel helped me immensely, I suppose. I struggle when developing sql statements, still. But I've learned coping mechanisms to figure it out. Mostly excel based.
AlbaneinCowboy
Yeah, same Sept I don't do sql. So one time I was reading out numers. It was 69, I saw 69, I though 69, I said 69, but what actually came out my mouth was 96. What recently helped me with <> was my kid was watching a show on YouTube called number blocks and there was an episode on it.
C0baltBlue
Flipping numbers as well? e.g. 24 to 42? I've got this problem too and getting good at Excel has helped me enormously. People don't have to be good at maths any more, but being able to write up a quick formula to do jobs for me on the fly makes me look good at work and usually has fewer errors than someone picking up a calculator and doing it by hand.
TheHolyFatman
I suppose this also explains the spacial issues I have when I draft flat patterns. I have the exact measurements on the paper but I always think it's "too small" or "too big" I can't judge seam allowances or fit. I have to have someone check it for me....once someone helps me make the adjustments, it's fine. I've figured out to NOT trust my brain.