Joyika
84630
1812
28
Jul 10, 2024 5:51 AM
Joyika
84630
1812
28
beaubrent
Was she ever not pregnant?
drksdrlife
To shreds, you say?
Gippo53
It seems correct to me. Equal rights. We must extend ancient retrograde and chauvinistic customs to women too.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Lulabel73
The husband
spattr
That's about the time the leather couch was invented.
GravyEducation
My cheeks stick to it though
executivedisfunction
Wrong leather preservative. And it's not a California potato chip.
robkyky
In a row?!
Enterwittyandfunnyandexpletivedeletednamehere
thepicklebucket
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
5knotcans
They went on to become the harem globe trotters.
JOKERZwild86
aloharamada
When her brother who was the emperor died, and her uncle took the throne, the new emperor ordered her to commit suicide for her immorality. Seeing how her death date is that same month, she either did or was murdered by him... So yeah, not a happy ending.
ButteryBiscuitBass
Her brother is a modern man.
firni
hnngh
Just let the princess fuck
YaHeardTurdFerguson
Hear hear!
NineByNine
Always heartwarming when equality flourishes :D
JohnWickdidnothingwrong
Dudes brother-in-law was probably like "Uh..."
MeowstophelesTheeCatMonster
Maaaaaan, apparently we have to step up our game! The most boyfriends/partners we have ever had at one time was 19! ...Now we want a full harem of 30 young men! =<
astrangehop
Apparently there's a San Francisco polycule that has over 1000 members. Iirc they don't all know each other, but iirc there's a common ruleset (sti testing, basic consent, kink stuff etc) that everyone agrees to.
zombiejedediah
That almost just sounds like a sensible big city dating pool
fetchmethatpitcher
That's an amazing photo, considering it has to have been taken in the 2nd century!
tombeithemist
TIL Liu Chuyu looked a little like Zhang Ziyi
FoxySpirit
5th century. She died 466 (birthdate unknown) and looks like in her 20s here.
TheOneThatGotBanned
Death by snu snu?
Bomullsdottir
LokJok
Close, but not quite there yet...
pangalgargblast
what would be a good novel word for 'male harem' ? I'm thinking fuck stable
CmdrAdama
Ok, but who is in the photo?
merxman
Seems to be AI-generated from https://www.facebook.com/p/The-Historians-Den-100091950528194/
Sierrahotel12
So does that mean he had 30 women?
apoliticalpanda
No he had ten thousand
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Chuyu
certainlynotaserialkiller
probably more
BigIrv5151
I see no problem here. Liberty, equality, fraternity, and a harem that goes 30 deep.
sfcorax
Well they are Asian, it's not that deep.
Geo80
Other than nobles owning the peasant class and doing with them what they will, yes, no problems here.
eetsumkaus
sounds more like a train to me...
Harbltron
I mean the willingness of the population of their respective harems seems like a glaring problem, but outside of that it's pretty progressive.
Geo80
Soooo... this an actual photo of her? .....from the Song dynasty?
MrHappySmiles
And she forgot to murder him to take over leadership..
BIC777
Or did she? Pretty sure she did
maeta
She did not. Her uncle was next in line.
UnoriginalPieceOfRepeatingShit
Some girls have all the luck
Come2Japan
Ugavemecocacola1960
Brilliant. Lmao
RichardNunez
Merky600
Oh you dog……
SpaceMarineWithAnUrgeToPurge
CouldntCakeLess
Thanks, Smokey!
HapilyDamaged
TrustMeImADog
That's one sassy alsatian!
GravyEducation
compused
Ok Smokey
dankymang
What’s this from?
Dappin
Imgur trying to get you horny for dogs. Or sheep.
prince25
https://youtu.be/P9_mH82hBdc
friendsofsandwiches
And thus, a new manhwa was born.
KiwiGameDev
https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/men-of-the-harem/list?title_no=2443
Kazzle
That's a whole genre of already existing manhwa.
friendsofsandwiches
(fyi 'manhwa' is the term for chinese manga)
uden10
Not OP but I never get them right, damn
friendsofsandwiches
had to look up the name.
learnsmth
*korean manga
friendsofsandwiches
crap, used the wrong term. manhua was what I ment to copy onto here.
ArkoneAxon
There's an interesting webcomic, "Men of the Harem," about an Empress (or rather, Emperor, because she insists on using THAT title) who takes a small harem for herself. Ironically enough, she never actually has sex with any of them - she's remarkably shy about it. Also, she doesn't quite TRUST any of them, because of all the political manuevering and scheming going on between them and everyone else. (Which, to be fair, is what every other Emperor, including her father, had to deal with...)
ArkoneAxon
Link: https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/men-of-the-harem/list?title_no=2443
OlofBorrbrottsson
Reminds me somewhat of empress Irene of Byzantium. Not the harem stuff, but using the title ”emperor” rather than ”empress”. Quite the interesting woman actually, gouged out the eyes of her own son to rule supreme, but only got five years of sole rule before the byzantine politics of Byzantium got her too.
Carl99
Assuming her introduction in Civ VI is acurratte to the real thing, (they generally try to be), Jadwiga of Poland too went by the male title.
ArkoneAxon
Interesting, yes. But I prefer Theodora, the prostitute who sexually enthralled Justinian and became his Empress. The one who went on to tax the shit out of the rich, built infrastructure to help the common people, and who was noted for advancing the rights of women - including prostitutes and former prostitutes.
OlofBorrbrottsson
Another great life story, indeed. If only Procopius was more credible…
ArkoneAxon
As I understand it, Procopius wrote MULTIPLE accounts of her, depicting her in various ways. From "she was a demon in human form" in his younger years, to "she should be canonized as a saint" when he was older and Justinian was commissioning the writing.
OlofBorrbrottsson
Yup, that’s my understanding of it as well.
kriswinters
If she had 31, why not another? I'd be her 30 second man.
drsavage
Cleverrr
NotADutchman
You could also tell her you’re dirty too.
uplookdont
Hey 30 times better than her second man. Not bad
icouldntthinkofabetterusername2
SupernaturalReactions
Braggart.
MrHappySmiles
This comment deserves front page..
BastofBelial
Fucking chef's kiss
AdventuresOfLopen
I mean fine but thats still 16 min for the lot of them
CardeasIV
And youd be her favorite! Sadly for your jokes, only, but that still counts
jherazob
BobbyBoomstick
WeReallyShookThePillarsOfHeavenDidntWeWang
dabum
I was 2 posts away when this clicked. Bravo.
ConstantBitRate
laton
TonyBalogna
TheCornBanana
AManIsNoOne
Congrats on the wit!
FTUG
Aforaseem
Something something Baskin Robins 31 flavours.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
The word harem is exclusive to women. There is no term for a male harem. Not even "male harem", which is an oxymoron like "male wife". The young Emperor was faced with the same problem and coined the term mianshou for his sister's collection of male lovers, which has since come to mean gigolo in Chinese.
Joeybigtimes
Okay
GravyEducation
You could've made all that up and I'd still believe you
LowenCartigo
I appreciate everyone explaining and defining the terms.. when it's just: language evolves persistently endlessly. Let harem be situational :shrug:
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
99% of the time people don't mean an actual harem when they use the word. There are better terms for polygamous or polyamorous relationships, or groups of consorts of either gender in historical contexts. Unless said consorts spend their entire lives confined to prison-like quarters and are slaves for all intents and purposes, the term harem doesn't really apply.
Zedrapazia
As a non English native speaker, "Husband" is anyway a weird word.
I mean, husbandry isn't the art of being a husband, it's usually a term used when caring for a pet, such as a lizard.
If I have a husband, does that make me the lizard?
Not sure what the root of the word is ...
In my own language, German, it's Ehemann and Ehefrau, which would translate to marriage man and marriage woman.
shimmerkitten
Hahahaha lizard lady, I love it
echoawoo
Male wives and Female husband used to be the way to talk about trans-ish people, before we, you know, coined the term trans.
It did include all forms of GNC, though so it wasn't exclusively trans people, but butches and femboys, too.
Klaxun
The word you're looking for is heram.
SpotlightStealer
But, you did know exactly what the author was trying to convey, so from a descriptivist point of view, they've communicated perfectly. Might have to add a new definition to harem in English if you wanna be staunch prescriptivist
ickyickywoopwoo
Polyandry is a woman with multiple husbands, as opposed to polygyny where the man has multiple wives. Polyandry is quite rare, the only such society I can think of certain parts of Tibet, I believe there are others.
Tomigami
Should've called it a tortoisem (this is a dumb joke that I can't bring myself to delete)
ReconfigureTheCitrus
I don't know how to tell you this but the meaning of words changes over time. There's value in remembering the origins of words and their historical implications, but insisting that words have to retain their original meaning is pointless. The purpose of language is to communicate and clearly you understood what was meant by "a harem of 30 men".
TELunus
While that may be true etymologically, or perhaps even as a term of art in a specific field, in normal modern English "male harem" not only effectively communicates the indented meaning to other fluent English speakers, it may also be the simplest and most effective term for communicating that meaning. So on the basis of descriptive linguistics I reject your idea that, at least in normal modern English, it's "not a term"
WillWilder
The male equivalent would be a stable. As in horses. But for mans.
AFelineMassofEyes
It's where you keep your studs, yeah
Showsni
Why did he name male harems after a Pokémon?
willpostanything
FoxySpirit
If you are picking words, at least do it right. Mianshu never meant "male harem". It always referred to the people who made up the harem. And the Chinese didn't even have harems, which is a place. Mianshu was basically male concubine, for which there was no word.
eetsumkaus
the word didn't exist so someone made up a word..? Like "male harem"?
uden10
Yeah. Not a linguist but I like that we can just do that, or alternately just use harem in a gender-neutral fashion. Unless you're super vague, people will know what you mean.
darkknightkaraco
I wanna be a male wife...
MmmmmSoup
I've always called it a reverse harem
Shovi
Who came and said this word is set in stone and you are not allowed to change it, even slightly? Harem can apply to male harem as well, if you want to, no one can force not to, there is no dictionary police going around arresting people that want to change how words are used.
wandermanspacebot
Sure, but there is always a correct way of using a word. And an incorrect way.
BurtMaklinFBI
Not always - incorrect usage of words is the main reason languages evolve - used enough, it...
BurtMaklinFBI
...literally BECOMES correct - slang terms overtaking their "correct" predecessors is the main way language evolves ...
BurtMaklinFBI
... so where along that spectrum does "incorrect" become "correct" ...? It's never a sharp line or distinction
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
That's like saying "wife" can also refer to a male wife. We have a word for a male spouse. Just like we have the term polyandry to describe a marriage or similar relationship arrangement that involves one woman + multiple men. Of course that says nothing about the power dynamic involved, but there have never been women who owned a bunch of male sex slaves and kept them confined to the house guarded by eunuchs. Otherwise we'd have a term for this too. We can make one up once this actually happens
qwertdeep
A concubines isn’t necessarily a sex slave. Depending on the society they have had different rights and statuses, in some they were sex slaves, in others they were not
nardiza
Why are you offended. They just pointed out a history fact. Yes today we might use male harem but back then, they wouldn't do that and thus came out with a different word. Maybe if you use male harem where the word harem originally came from you might get a side glance because it will be silly to do so? Even then, there won't be any police to jail you for that ok my little petal. Sleep well and lower that heart rate a bit so you can live a long and happy life.
writerbuddy
In contemporary smut the term "reverse harem" indicates one lady with many male lovers.
InfOracle
A prostitute then?
arek314
Nah, as a fellow researcher "reverse harem" requires lady to be in control, like an empress or royalty.
ReconfigureTheCitrus
No.
KiwiGameDev
I love how you sourced this so eloquently
applesforjuice
If there's no term, including the term you used, why did we all understand what you meant? If you're saying that there's no term for male harem in Chinese, then it sounds like there is and was, and was used so widely that it is still used to this day but its meaning has changed. The original meaning is still known so there is a term in both English and Chinese
FoxySpirit
And the best thing, they are wrong too. Mianshu doesn't even mean "male harem". It always referred to the people who made up the harem.
ServerMonkeyKing
*Arabic and Chinese. Lots of Arabic words were stolen and assimilated into the English language during the Crusades when Arab influences commingled with Europe because if it's one thing the English language is good at, it's stealing other languages homework.
Zedrapazia
Such as our entire number system, eh? 1234567890 ...
Arabic Numerals
ServerMonkeyKing
It's even more ironic because the Arabic language (Modern Standard Arabic and all it's derivatives) uses Hindi numerals now, not Arabic numerals.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
My point is precisely that people don't really understand what a harem entails. It's not just an alternative term for polygamy / polygyny. Harem refers to the space in a wealthy Turkish household that was exclusively reserved for female sex slaves (lesser wives and concubines, both equally bought & owned) and eunuchs. These slaves were forever confined to this space unless they spent the night in their owner's bedroom and never left the household. There is no polyandric equivalent for this.
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
Dude, it's 2024, not 1424. Language has moved on, get over it
HonoredMule
History never moves on. Hence, it's nice to actually have the linguistic background to help understand both it and the present day implications it has contributed.
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
History moves on all the fucking time, what crack are you smoking? If it was static and unchanging it wouldn't be one of the major academic fields, now would it?
Hemelsblauw
In dutch we haar=her and hem=him, so I always thought 'harem' for him and 'hemaar' for her.
ArcaneEyes
Woulfen't it be hemrem?
Hemelsblauw
Interesting. Might be.
BishlamekGurpgork
Not Haar for the women in a HArem, but hem in harEM for the group that is for a man to use.
BurtMaklinFBI
I'm a super nerd about language - I'm like Amy Santiago over this discussion rn
Altanese
AKSHUALLY a harem is a place exclusively for women in a Muslim house and has no polygamous connotations. See how shit breaks down when we play the pedantic game?
Dingledonglejingle
So a harem is haram?
willpostanything
Altanese
Before anyone reads their reply to this above comment from me, please know that it's a load of horse shit made up by Europeans to mystify and vilify the Islamic world. A harem could include a space for female slaves, but it also included all members of the household. A singular wife only would count, up to multiple wives, daughters, servants and slaves, or whatever else.
All this to say that the usage of the word harem in English is already far from it's origin, so just fucking say male harem.
erroniousmaximus
There are no sources anywhere for any of this, so I just assume that it’s two clowns honking each others horns here.
I’ll just laugh and move on.
Anonaru
Actually, when I search "Harem origin" I get an account almost identical to the guy saying it was a man-prohibited space for the females of a household, specifically separated from sexuality. This does specifically note concubines though, which sort of sullies his claims that it has nothing to do with polyamory
Garn0123
I think it's more that it doesn't NECESSARILY have polygamous connotations. In the Muslim world, the harem is just "a place in the household for women (and prepubescent boys) so as to separate them from the men". It can include a place for all the wives, daughters, female slaves, concubines, etc., but could easily just be for a single wife.
It's entirely cultural and based on each individual household.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Precisely. It's the part of the household where female – exclusively female – sex slaves spent their entire lives. Some of them lesser wives, some mere concubines / consorts, all of them enslaved in practice and forbidden from ever leaving the house. That's exactly why there is no such thing as a male harem or a reverse harem. It never existed. There are cultures that practice polyandry, but these relationship arrangements are consensual and relatively egalitarian.
Joeybigtimes
Okay
Altanese
No. You are flatly wrong. It is for wives, singular or multiple, as well as daughters, and any other female members of the household.
You are going exclusively by an orientalist version envisioned by Europeans for a few centuries.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
PS: The term definitely has a polygynic connotation though seeing as only wealthy men with multiple wives and concubines had a harem. The common people with one spouse and no sex slaves lived in much simpler accomodations and didn't have an entire prison wing for the womenfolk. What the term lacks is an islamic connotation. The Hebrew kings kept very similar harems, as did the kings and emperors of China and Korea. While their concubines typically entered the relationship willingly, once they...
Joeybigtimes
Okay
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
were inside the palace they were also confined to certain parts of the palace grounds and couldn't simply leave whenever they wanted.
YellowSparrow
Harem/haram/forbidden. Culturally, a space reserved for women in that it's haram (forbidden) for a man to enter it unless those women are part his household. But harem/haram is not gender-specific, as in: eating pork is haram.
kiwiflavored
You're pretty close. The Turkish haremlik is etymologically related to the Arabic harim (restricted). Not haram (forbidden). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85
HonoredMule
Right. "Forbidden" to any man unto whom those women are not reserved. So think less "safe space for women" and more "safe storage for one very insecure and greedy man."
YellowSparrow
Dude. No.
Garn0123
It is far more nuanced and seemingly less harsh than what you're making it out to be. Some harems, yes, but (from what I can find) many were not necessarily what you describe. It varied greatly from household to household, with a lot more monogamy than you'd expect. A lot of it was just culturally the place of the woman in the societal hierarchy and how she interacted with the community and the household, and less to do with "man stores women here"