NicotineLL
216556
4883
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If you're even a casual gamer nowadays, you must have encountered at least once the idiocracy of the gaming industry we call "Microtransactions" - the "milking machine" of this generation. This ladies and gentlemen is what happens when companies stop making games for the consumer, but rather limiting, crippling and deliberately altering the gameplay and overall experience in order to maximize profit!
Many companies are guilty of this including the biggest players such as EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Valve and even Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.
Many times you'll hear people say things such as "If people keep buying it - they'll keep making them that way" or "If you don't like it then don't buy it".
Well, I have one question - how is the general consumer supposed to know what microtransactions these games include before purchasing, without going into time consuming research or constantly follow gaming news?
We need a rating system and we need it now.
Much like ESRB and PEGI are grading games depending on content, there needs to be a way to grade how much games are going to rip us off.
Meet the MTR - The Microtransaction Rating
It's definitely not perfect but it's a start.
Now I know there is no way this is going to get implemented in any shape or form, but it's definitely good to have, to use it on images, forum posts or anywhere we need to express our opinion.
(This rating system's scope includes microtransactions only, other shady practices like DLCs are a whole different story...)
MTR N - No microtransactions, period.
MTR V - Visuals / Remove Ads. [ including games such as DotA 2, free iOS and Android apps ]
MTR U - Unlockables / Limited Time Items / Boosters [ including games such as Destiny 2, NBA 2K18, Hearthstone ]
MTR L - Loot Boxes AKA Gambling [ including games such as Battlefront II, Middle-earth Shadow of War ]
MTR P - Pay-to-win AKA Paid Cheats [ including games such as Dungeon Keeper, APB Reloaded ]
Verbally offending a shitty international conglomerate tax
Raggune
Gotta say I got a little triggered when I saw dungeon keeper in there then remembered that god awful mobile game.
destructowad001
It could use some refinement, but I'll gladly accept this kind of system so i know on the fly what I'm getting into when I buy new games
Allofyoush
How do we do it then?
ChrisMcadam
Not sure it takes time consuming research. The minute a game announces it will have MT everyone goes into uproar and you can read it anywher
Othernate
Depends. There's a decent chunk of the community that gets really mad when people talk about mtx at all. ):
Granddellfthegrand
You forgot that Bethesda also jumped on that money garbing wagon.
troy11998822
Where is “F” for fuck you in the ass micro transactions?
CatBlaster5000
Oh they already use that rating, they display it right on the front of the box as EA
SilentScreamsX
We have these. They're called reviews.
LittleDutch
Except that most reviews barely mention them, and they tend to have no effect on the review score, which is what most people look at.
jargonmon
This is the bane of a dad's existance. I had to block all transactions on my steam and nintendo account because of my two boys.
SnickerDONTle
Is it time for an EA boycott? I think it's time for and EA boycott.
Alkolis
+1 For Fuck EA. Sounds like an interesting system, I would use it.
Mugfan
I canceled my pre-order for the new assassins creed, just because I suspect loot-boxes there. Now I'll wait for the first reviews.
Othernate
good on you!
DandySpaceCowboy
MrZev
Microtransactions should also be viewed differently if it's single player and non competitive i.e. no leader board.
morelikeconsham
Yeah, paid mods and DLC need mentioning for single player games. DLC would be hard to rank, though.
hamberglar
Wouldn't hearthstone technically be MTR L? Booster packs and loot boxes are functionally identical as far as I can tell.
hamberglar
Not that I'm complaining. I think Hearthstone is an example of a game that uses MTX correctly, in that it functions like a normal card game.
Othernate
Yeah it's free to play, and a much less offensive loot system than overwatch. ):
Alighierian
Pfin
Damn.. it is so sad to see that people think APB is p2w. Most of the weapons in armas marketplace are reskins - visual upgrades.
TacticalSpoon
I only played before it was f2p, but can see how the power level difference noobs and leveled players could create that misunderstanding.
ArtOzz
Gods damn Dungeon Keeper for mobile. I mean, gods damn it. Porting the original 2 wouldve been better than that shit.
ryo0hki
I'm confused.. When did dungeon keeper have paid cheats. I remeber playing 1 and 2 and having the best fun without any microtransactions.
Aerolfoz
EA got their claws in them too and as usual released a new shitty version with the name of the original.
Mugfan
I'm pretty sure they mean the mobile game that came out a few years back. EA really jumped the shark with that.
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
The mobile game.
ryo0hki
Ahh I didnt know there was a moble game.
Stolf
EA put out an ios dungeon keeper that was plagued with micro transactions designed to be neigh on unplayable without paying
onrop
@NicotineLL If you think APB is P2W, you never played APB. All their weapons on their cash shop is cosmetic or worse
onrop
than the weapons you unlock in-game. There is no real advantage over a Shop weapon over an in-game and it can be proven 1000 times over.
JesseQuick
I play APB on console and haven't bought a single thing. I can agree. I have never for a second thought any ARMAs weapon was better. @OP fix
TGIBallsWorth
Yeah but without premium it’s prettty much an endless grind
admiralhoth
Even with premium it takes forever. 252 hours to max out a 255 with premium, 312 without.
SumDumFox
Actually it's about 320 hours WITH premium to reach R255, assuming you win around 75% of missions. Over 400 without (I have 5 max ranks)
Grimmrog
theres still only 3 weapons you really need, an N-tec, an Oca or PMG and a N-HVR. maybe if you fancy it an anti vehicle.
Grimmrog
and that you can get without much grind if you regulary play. it's only a problem when you only play for like 2 hours a weekend,
Jaggernaut555
It's been some years since I played, but is the joker bad again?
Aegisu
Upvote this shit, it's not perfect but holy hell is it necessary.
SayWhatYouMeanMeanWhatYouSay
But why? The bare minimum of research usually has info on it, and why would you buy a 60 dollar product without reading at least 1 review?
Lolzorski
Because that's the world we live in. Why do people buy iphones? Why is there like 30 call of duty games? Consumerism illness is my guess
ICallPeoplesBullshit
Because people want to be first. Launch day. No patience. Lazy. Bragging rights. Friends get it, peer pressure. Trailers kill self control.
icookfoodandfightfire
Or i just wanna play the damn game and i have the money to do so now. So why wait
ICallPeoplesBullshit
That's is fine. Just don't bitch about it later.
Z0op
Why not? Why isnt there any transparency about the actual costs of the game? Its my right to bitch however i like :)
auburnman
It needs an 18 rating on all lootbox games because it's gambling. Yes you technically "always get something" with every box bought (bet on),
auburnman
Does that mean I could take your money and randomly award you either a Bugatti Veyron or a bag of my own shit and it wouldn't be gambling?
GingeraffeTW
Check out what Activision just patented. https://kotaku.com/activision-patents-matchmaking-that-encourages-players-1819630937
DanOrtega
Well its Bobby Kotick. Its Actard.
ValamirCleaver
Remember when Activision was formed because Atari 2600 programmers felt they weren't being fairly compensated or credited?...
Radix865
Pretty sure those guys were either kicked out, bought out or just left by themselves in disgust and started farming.
TheRealRavnos
no, they are the ones who are rich now.
fluhatinrapper
It's not about making a statement, it's about the money. Those fuckheads.
Stollig
Horsecock
Superfuntime
Hogwash
kelots
Smart and Evil
GingeraffeTW
Yup.
PeteTusk
I have the feeling this is short-term clever and long-term foolish. And of course, evil, and double-evil for patenting it.
strcmdman
This would kill any new title but will work perfectly to squeeze the last few pennies out of their shrinking fanbase.
mrjadexxxxxxx
They patented it a few years ago. What games are currently using it via license?
GingeraffeTW
None are yet. They filed for the patent in 2015, it was just approved.
mrjadexxxxxxx
I thought it was approved in 2015. Thanks for the clarification.
dissapointinglysmallwhale
I don't see a problem with micro transactions as long as they are purely cosmetic e.g tf2 crates and keys
Ragionier
Yeah but the fact that even cosmetic items can't be normally purchased in a game (overwatch loot boxes) and you have to pay to get 1/2
Ragionier
2/2 a percentage to find said item is bullshit
donorkort
TF2 stuff isn't cosmetic, though.
heresaname
true. though im alright with it since getting drops is easy and no item is designed to be a p2w
donorkort
That's okay. I completely disagree; any game with ingame purchases that affect gameplay is a complete no-go for me.
dissapointinglysmallwhale
Tf2 isn't built so that you have to have unlockable weapons. You can survive with default weapons very easily until you random drop new ones
EmporerDragon
The vast majority is though. If you just want the base weapons (all sidegrades), you can earn a full set from random drops rather quickly.
GeoffFromAccounting
Honestly I don't have an issue with microtransactions unless they're P2W or block parts of the core game (cough Destiny 1)
Snooj
They primarily annoy me when games are FREE to download and end up being severely crippled. "Thanks for playing the two free levels!"
UpsideDownAirline
In a free game, I don't really mind them. If they get in my way too much I just won't play. I hate them in games that I buy.
PiGiSpi
What did Destiny 1 block behind MT's besides emotes? Honest question, can't remember.
SingleServingImgurUser
Sparrows, shaders, armor, ships, and as you mentioned, emotes. That's all I can remember off the top of my head.
PiGiSpi
Ah okay thank you. Yeah, I love both games but I'll never be okay with the micro transactions
SingleServingImgurUser
Right
TheCloney
No. Nothing was locked behind MTs in D1. You could earn 3 free boxes every week, so nothing was ever MT exclusive.
SingleServingImgurUser
Yea I ran outta words. It was all optional stuff, but not necessary in any way to enjoy the game.
GeoffFromAccounting
I especially don't have an issue with them in F2P games, where it's basically their only form of income
NotMyUsualOnlineName
Path of Exile is a good example. Most of the MT's for it are cosmetic only, the ones that aren't just give extra stash tabs. But you also
NotMyUsualOnlineName
have the option to become a "supporter" for each content expansion, which really just gives you a forum banner.
howdoyouturnthisonagain
No game should be pay to win where you can just buy upgraded or better items. Looking at you world of tanks.
ProbablyDrunkAgain
They changed that years ago when they made gold ammo purchasable with silver, but I haven't played years so no idea what they're doing now.
Esox202
Or you could just not use them. I am not a fan of them, but nobody forces you to buy them. Just spend your cash somewhere else.
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
But you're still supporting the model. In fact, in some cases, moreso than by actually buying them. Think of it this way- if a bunch of 1/?
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
players all go out and buy some pack or booster or whatever that gives them a noticeable advantage in a multiplayer game, and you only 2/?
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
purchased the game and play the multiplayer without buying any of the P2W perks, you are now someone for the players that paid in to 3/?
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
take advantage of. If everyone has X, then X won't seem like it's giving an advantage and people stop paying in. As long as there are 4/?
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
players for the paid ones to stomp on, they'll keep buying more and feeding the system. If those that won't buy in just avoided the game 5/6
Esox202
Maybe i should add that i'm not defending mts? I think they suck bollocks in hell, but i understand why companies use them.
Othernate
Check out Scientific Revenue, motto: "Turning players into payers!"
Othernate
Basically they mine your phone for information they use to push mtx as hard as possible. So don't worry, you'll be buying them soon! :P
Esox202
Yeah, if you say. If had enough contact and personal loss because of gambling, i think im safe.
Ragionier
The thing is that some microtransactions are addictive to some people,kinda like gambling.Not regulating MC may adduct even kids
Ragionier
*may become addictive even to kids
Esox202
This is a problem. But children get addicted to anything. And its their parents job to block them from access to the harmful stuff.
Esox202
Not like Magic Cards and stuff.
Ragionier
ye,but show me one parent that really cares about what his children his playing
Esox202
You mean like mine did? You mean like parents Ego Pay attention to their children, care about them?
KenAdams42
Honestly, I don't see the Destiny 2 microtransactions as a problem. The game is all about that looting and farming so buying the loot (1/2).
PiGiSpi
I love Destiny 2, but I can't be okay with their version and complain about others. It's either all bad or its all ok. And D2 forces you 1/2
PiGiSpi
2/2 to go to the marketplace to open each new bright engram. It's very clearly trying to manipulate people to spend money.
KenAdams42
I don't think its just "all bad or all ok", since some of them give an advantage in the game and some of them are just cosmetics that (1/2).
KenAdams42
Doesn't affect the gameplay.
PiGiSpi
I mean, ideally I'd agree. But we give them an inch and they take a mile. So if thats how they act, I'd rather we go back to just DLC
KenAdams42
Just makes the base game dull and useless. And yes, there's multiplayer, but it doesn't apply lvl advantages.
GregorCorgane
Destiny 2's microtransactions aren't that bad anyway since just leveling can get you stuff from the same loot pool.
asaguda
See, I'd say this about Shadow of War since they never balanced around them. Doesn't excuse their existance. Love the game, hate the MTs.
KenAdams42
Yeah, I don't like them either, just I don't see some of them as a problem. I hate them in Shadow Of War, since it gives advantage in mp.
asaguda
Not as much as some might think. You only need one set of uruk legendaries for your forts since they never die.
dyc3r
Devil's advocate: Markets evolve. Pay to win is decidedly awful, but games are a much more fluid medium than they were in the 90s, and
dyc3r
in many cases, development teams, and project scopes are much larger (even when they FEEL limited to the consumer). The growing expectation
dyc3r
that developers provide ongoing support and updates to fix bugs and/or performance issues on all platforms requires cash to pay employees'
dyc3r
salaries. The idea of microtransactions to provide that is not inherently awful. It may be better for the industry overall to reduce prices
dyc3r
universally than to eliminate microtransactions. And in the "best" games according to this proposed system, microtransactions either provide
dyc3r
purely cosmetic items or progress boosters, which only change how QUICKLY you play the game, and that's really not that bad. In the best
Othernate
Agree that developers are spending more per game, disagree that they have to, or even should.
dyc3r
Whether or not they SHOULD is a matter of opinion. The average consumer places a lot of weight on visual "realism" in modern gaming, and
dyc3r
creating that takes time, resources, and manpower, all of which cost money. I've always felt that graphics were secondary to story, but
dyc3r
I'm in the minority these days. Triple A titles are interactive movies. We expect hollywood calibre production, but get upset when that
Lurkyboye
Can't spell disease without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell beak without EA
howdoyouturnthisonagain
CatBlaster5000
stolen
Aegisu
Appropriated*
jp189512
Kinda like how you can't spell ignorance without IGN?
painstream
AvatarTommyBee
EA is maximizing profis like Milton Friedman proclaimed. Why are you complaining? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine
PostMoThoin
GonorrhEA
Marikhen
DiarrhEA.
domenick91
ValamirCleaver
Remember when EA was formed Hawkins felt software should be treated as an art form & that developers should be called software artists?...
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell seat without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell heat without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell meat without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell eat without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell weather without EA
Undercovergenitalfondler
You can't spell defeat without EA
Mrmtndew76
You also can't spell disease without a form of aids
Snooj
Also ease.
SnepInTime
Also sedaise.
lordofthedice
Also seaside.
iLikeHockey
As someone who only plays NHL, what's so bad about EA? The NHL experience is pretty straightforward. JW
Aerolfoz
HadoukenHobbit
Lol... did ea buy visceral? It’s funny.. Visceral used to be called EA Redwood Shores until EA renamed it. Do your research
n8crafter
Rip
TobiOfTheAkatsuki
Still bummed about Spore ironically devolving into what it is today. It's still fun, but could've been so much more.
ThirstyCalifornian
And they buy companies, destroy their creative teams, and inevitably shutter the studios, leaving their IP to rot.
ThirstyCalifornian
Oh, that’s literally what your infographic depicts. My internet is so slow.
aPeniss
Where would overwatch fit here? Gears 4 also has lootboxes but its all cosmetic. Gotta distinguish.
PiGiSpi
None of it is okay. it's because of the "cosmetic only" games that we ended up with worse versions of it. Get rid of it ALL
Earan
I would rather get free content upgrades subsidised by players buying cosmetic items than pay for expansions TBQH
PiGiSpi
It sounds nice in theory, but now we have it infesting every $60 game, which is absolutely absurd
PiGiSpi
You'd think people buying it that price would be "subsidizing new content"
Earan
Well, no, because before microtransactions we didn't have free content updates, we had paid expansion packs. I'm talking post launch here
obizues
Cosmetic is the one I’m okay with. F the rest. They literally broke NBA2k online since everyone starts at 85 and won’t play with anyone <85
SolidSnayke
Overwatch would be under gambling. Chinese law says that Blizzard needs to put the chances to win on the lootboxes.
LittleDutch
Eh, good to see someone else who gets it! :D
painstream
L and U. The loot crates are gambling unlocks (even if free), but the Overwatch ones don't sell power items.
MechanusIncarnate
Looks like a V to me, visuals only.
ATrueIntellectual
It's a little different when there's only cosmetic value to the items instead of being p2w, and because you get loot boxes by playing games
inboxyoursocks
Honestly it should have the highest rating that the game practices so I would say L. If they weren’t just cosmetic items then it would be P
JeffGoldblumWatchesYouPoop
Gears lootboxes were pay to win for Horde mode
Typhaonic
Cosmetics would fall under visuals. Loot boxes would cover actual play altering gear.
LittleDutch
Overwatch skins are cosmetic and are mostly (99%) obtained from loot boxes.
Typhaonic
True, I'm not really sure if the pay to win advantage or the gambling aspect would get the "L" ranking.
randomrofl
You would use MTR L. Since all games with any gameplay advantages from using normal money will fall under MTR P. Runescape 3 falls under(1/)
randomrofl
MTR P because you have a loot box system actually giving advantages with either exp or gp. Oh and you can also buy gp these days. (2/2)
Sexyfrozen
It has exp boosters (get x number of kills, get more creds/exp) and also has damage boosters for horde specific. It's not just cosmetic.
Thoraxe123
And its realistic to unlock much of that same content for free. Thats whats good about it
AisforIlliterate
That's an L. Non-cosmetic is probably a P.
mobilizerttndgaming6
It would be MTR V like dota 2 or CS:GO, its cosmetic.
GiantDad420
U and L.
aPeniss
Great idea though!
LittleDutch
Microtransactions are microtransactions. Overwatch is especially devious as it is just a gambling system. You don't know what you will get.
xfrostbyte
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I played the Gears 4 free weekend or whatever and I got a loot box that had an increased damage mod in it.
MioriYamaguchi
Well considering 'paid cheats' is even mentioned here this whole rating system is partly laughable. Cheating is against the rules.
Sexyfrozen
That's for horde mode I believe. With that said there are also 'exp boosters' you can get out of them. They're not 'just cosmetic'.
Cassiraa
Overwatch is cosmetic lootbox, which is lower than lootbox. Hearthstone, however, is gameplay affecting lootbox (packs)
mrducker
Hearthstone is a free to play game tho. It mimics any other card based strategy game. MTG for example.
Cassiraa
Common misconception. Magic lets you buy/trade individual cards you want. Hearthstone forces you to buy tons of packs to accrue enough dust.
mrducker
Point taken
Cassiraa
The inability to buy specific cards is a very big difference, and the difference between a loot box and a collectable & tradable game.
PepeKingOfMemes
Rocket league turned into a crate key money milker
SovereignForeigner
They say it pays for their eSports I think
escthectrler
Yeah but it's all cosmetics, sure cars are slightly different but the differences are small and octane is still the fan favourite
escthectrler
Also, with the new event, they added decrypters which is a good move the only downside being the cap at 3 per event
aPeniss
Oh wait you would put multiple of these lables on one game I'm dumb.
RandomPenisInComments
Sup bruh
DaisukeAramaki
It's ok, as a penis you're not really responsible for the thinking anyway :P
JAYK42
But I think with my penis all the time
aPeniss
Thanks, i try not to think as much as i can cus when i do i get beat :(
CrimeThinker
I know that feel, bro.
Calmeister
Limited time + lootbox
Sionas
Yeah, big difference between cosmetic only and pay2win
Lorithias
Totally right !
TheShittyReposterStrikesAgain
Overwatch isn't pay to win. It's cosmetic and gambling.
Sionas
Yes I'm aware of that. I play overwatch. I also play hearthstone, which you basically need to pay to play the best decks.
ThePastmaster
Yeah, and you can get the lootboxes by just playing the game. Needs more rateings
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnm
Even the word pay2win is subjective. These ratings are fucking retarded
anubisfike
Subjective how? If you can pay extra money to get an advantage over someone who didn't pay then it's pay2win. Simple.
Honeybadger2198
Unless the people who paid only get matched up against other people who paid.
Z0op
Name one game which does that with microtransactions (not subscriptions)
Earan
Is eg LoL pay 2 win? Unlocking extra characters gives you strategic advantage but is very different to in game bonuses.
Earan
By comparison in WoT you deal more damage and stuff like that if you spend real money
anubisfike
You could probably categorise it as pay2win because it takes a lot of time to unlock the characters the legit way.
DrVanillaBear
MTR L uses loot boxes for cosmetics and other stuff no one cares about
Teaflings
should be a note that its not only just cosmetics, but everything is unlockable by playing and ingame creds can buy stuff with minimal play
Morganelefay
Sure, but it's unfair to put Shadow of War equal with Overwatch given how the two work.
TimboTimboTimbo
yeah, same with swbf2. Loot boxes there give straight advantages.
DrVanillaBear
I think that would be PL (pay to win with lootboxes)
DrVanillaBear
I can agree with that as shadow of war is much worse. So I think what whatspaulplaying said would be the best fix
TeamRocketBlastOffAtTheSpeedOfLightSurrenderNowOrPrepareToFight
What makes it even worse is you can strait up LOSE the content you paid for.
[deleted]
[deleted]
DrVanillaBear
I can imagine some poor guy like "woo I got the best ork possible" then next time he logs in £100 worth of ork just gone forever
whatspaulplayingtoday
Could be LC, for Lootboxes with Cosmetic content.
Hydrottle
There are several other big games that would fit into cosmetic lootboxes as well, such as CSGO and Rocket League.
Morganelefay
LC - Cosmetic Lootboxes. LG - Lootboxes with actual improved gear/other stuff for your games. Seems fair.
whatspaulplayingtoday
Sounds good to me.
Calistil
People get so cranky about companies trying to make money through MTs but also think that game prices should be immune to inflation.
TacticalAfro
Here's a counter to that one. You used to get the whole game and not have BS hidden behind p reorders and DLCS that are just cut content.
LittleDutch
If you want the full experience, be prepared to pay $110,- for the entire game. $60,- no longer gets you everything.
XanCrews
I'd happily pay $90 outright if that's what it actually costs instead of buying the "full game" with 1/3 of the content behind a $30 paywall
mypeesmellslikeluckycharms
I'm okay with the paywall as long as the dev/publisher is upfront about how much it's going to be with season passes and the like.
XanCrews
I'm okay with that as well UNTIL the SP and DLC are cut from the main game for day 1 DLC that's significant to the main game.
mypeesmellslikeluckycharms
that would piss me off; I haven't had a game like that. I was thinking the Fallout 4 model: $60 game $30 more for DLC and that's it.
XanCrews
Those are completely fine with me. Locking game progression into lootboxes in a non-f2p is not.
XanCrews
This current model leaves me feeling ripped off and it's really slimy of the publisher.
mthrndr01
I think I've purchased maybe a dozen DLC items over the last ten years that I didn't regret. Mostly Borderlands expansions.
magneticgumby
Thank you. It's nice to see a shared voice of logic. People just expect game companies to work on DLCs, other games, etc, for free.
LittleDutch
Except that it is not logic. And we would happily pay for EXPANSIONS, not DLC that was cut FROM the game before release.
magneticgumby
Alright, that's a valid point you made but I'm failing to see where it deals with MT and game prices?
LittleDutch
Because any full price game should not have MT. Of course, full expansions are good to have.
LittleDutch
Not even considering the fact that $60,- DOES NOT buy you a full game. $110,- does.
magneticgumby
I personally see no issue with MT if it's purely cosmetic and ways to acquire the items can be accomplished without currency.
Calistil
Development costs go up every year but games are very locked into the $60 price tag for a standard game.
Sacurason
That said, I feel like mass consumption of games has also increased substantially to the point where that may not matter.
Sacurason
2/2 For example, GTA V cost ~$115M to make and raked in ~$1B in sales on day one. Now, every game can't be GTA, but still.
Superfuntime
That's like using Star Wars as an example of why bluerays should be cheaper because of volume sales. It's GTA, you fat free cheese!
Sacurason
That's a fair point! I had trouble finding a lot of specific numbers online. Just using what I could actually find :P
TresusIbor
Sounds like a bubble about to burst.
Idsertian
"Development costs go up" How about stop pumping 10's of millions into bullshit pre-rendered ad campaigns for a start?
alexoran
I'm not sure what on earth made you think that advertising less is a good way for a studio to make more money, but... Wow.
Idsertian
You are missing the key part of the argument. Stop making overbloated campaigns with costs that the actual product has no hope of recouping.
PerryCoxMD
Normally advertising is its own beast, not included in the development costs.
Sheepyhead
Development costs only go up for AAA companies, development is cheaper in every way today.
TheActualMalloryArcher
Yeah, and early access games are so reliable. Every game should be early access pre-developement imo.
Sheepyhead
I agree to some extent, but not as the current EA model is. I don't want to play an unfinished game unless it's explicitly for testing.
TheActualMalloryArcher
Oh i agree ea and activision and many others are fucked. But we can't go from one extreme to another. We need middle ground
2Cats1Box
This is why I prefer just calling it pre-alpha, open beta, etc. Because it doesn't imply polish or full content. Also the time spent 1/2
2Cats1Box
I kind of agree, but I dont like the wording of "early access". The expectation it puts in my head is that its nearly complete and 1/2
2Cats1Box
Wont be long in coming. When the game takes months or even years to polish up through that process, a lot of people lose interest
PerryCoxMD
I basically typed this before checking comments. $40 NES game in 1989 would be over $80 today.
EightLemon78
A lot of the $40-$50 games from earlier consoles were a lot better than some of the steaming shit rolled out today for the same price. (1/2)
EightLemon78
But that might just be my opinion. (2/2)
PerryCoxMD
A lot of games that were $50 that would last you 3 hours and were garbage. Most of "old games were better" is rose colored glasses.
Calistil
Exactly, For every Ocirina of Time there were 5 Superman 64s, you just don't remember them as well and you should be thankful.
krapmyself
It's a nice idea but it won't happen. The only reason the ESRB exists is because of that 90's crap about games corrupting kids.
LordofSadFace
No, the only reason the ESRB exists is because of Sub-Zero and his ESRB-Maker
Roqinn
If the companies wont implement it, then people can do it themselves. Go to the forums or reviews and post it there.
Halflingflinger
Well this shit *is* actually corrupting kids, though.
leadheadcaptainpresidentofthetautologyclub
The parents of this generation need to raise a stink about this as well then. Turning our children into gamblers!
clevernametom
The ESRB actually came about by game developers to self regulate their industry (Based on what they were observing in the news) before 1/#
clevernametom
the government came in and did it for them. We are currently seeing things in mobile such as CARU/COPPA/FTC influences that are 2/#
clevernametom
government created regulations due to the fact that the industry didn't regulate itself prior. The more you know! Source:I'm in the industry
OliverClothesoff70
It's possible that something like this could work if adopted by some of the popular game journalists and/or YouTube personalities.
Potetgull92
Send it to pewdiepie or idk... someone else famous
WhyleKat
Created due to Mortal Kombat
CloneOgre
Came here to drop that knowledge bomb. You've already done so. +1 for you! :D
AceOfShovels
And the ESRB is, like, six total people giving barely informed opinions based on game trailers.
ArtOzz
With the irony that many parents dont understand or give a fuck and buy what is asked for.
AStegosaurus
Where do you live that it is still 1985? Every child born today will have parents who are well aware of what video games are.
ArtOzz
HA, please. Builders and other manual types dont have clue 1 about them. My own brother is anti tech in the extreme.
AStegosaurus
They were not building houses when they were 5. They were playing Nintendo.
ArtOzz
Oh, so theyd know about today's modern games because they played on a Snes Super Mario Bros 3. STFU.
Xenarion
Or it's just basic rating like there is for movies and such.
Bananasandwich03
Not 100% true. Certain things are bound to get monitored by the government such as loot boxes. It's glorified gambling in a game that (1/?)
Bananasandwich03
Kids are participating in which is highly illegal. Soon enough there will be a new rating system for it. (2/2)
Ansatsunin
So what about the loophole publishers are abusing to push gambling on children, like Valve with CS:GO, or all lootbox games, for example?
albl1122
you might get a journalist to use the system but a government? unless you get at least a couple thausends to sign.
SlightlyRelatedToThePost
@OP even said it's never going to be any actual organization. This is just a template for people to post on games on forums, Imgur, etc.
DanOrtega
Except this is not an industry promoted standard; as @OP said, this is a public/community initiative to be added to game images, reviews...
peopleperson
Thanks Tipper!
strcmdman
Good news on this front Steam has started to denote DRM and other less than preferable practices on their summary on the right.
HitlersArtCritic
I think users should do this. Just say they rate if MTR L. Even if minor to help fight it.
silverfoxxflame
I mean, if people raise as big a stink over it due to "kids not understanding how much they're being manipulated" or something it might work
MrZev
Not really. We still have movie ratings for the same reasons.
DrArbitrary
ESRB came about because if the industry failed to self regulate, congress was going to do it for them, and NOBODY wanted that.
Bystandr
Dont count on the industry to come forward at all, in fact, but if WE use it in rating games. Playthroughs on youtube, comments in Metascore
Bystandr
discussion amongst ourselves, etc. They would have no choice but to acknowledge it.
PiGiSpi
I think a major review site just announced they'er going to prominently display when a game features MT's. I hope its the first of many
WeGotCompanyCaptain
MTR is a human right
Wellshiet
I played GTA even though I was just a kid. I turned out a freak.
tomyironmane
So let's start an Old People Hysteria about games stealing their money and cheating.
Vadar217
Night trap and mortal kombat led to the creation of the esrb in 1992, I believe
ThatoneQuebecguywhothinkshesCanadian
Alright, time to start a riot on parents wallets draining randomly and get this into motion then!
ImgurMadeMeChangeMyNameCauseItsDumb
And it ruins games
fitgirl1
Who cares if it's listed by the company, you create the website like a rotten tomatoes type site and smart people check it out before buying
Hydrottle
It could definitely happen! But it may not happen the way ESRB did. I feel like there should be someone who makes a website/YouTube channel<
Hydrottle
> where they rate these games. The website would be better because you could search the game on the site and get a quick rating for it.
tehzpoon
If it weren't for the ESRB, more kids with dumb parents would get games like Manhunt at age 7.
Zoltar666
Cause it do! I played GTA and now I resemble one of the random pedestrians in that vile game!
kmikl
What if I told you that you were a random pedestrian in someone's DLC version of your city modelled in GTA?
MantisTobagganMD
One of those sweet pieces of ass you can pick up at Vespucci Beach? Or run over, I dunno
mypeesmellslikeluckycharms
Psh I just jump straight off the pier when some shifty looking half-dressed meth head comes my way
WarriorSoul
Glad to know I'm not the only one walking around aimlessly, waiting for someone more important to ruin my day.
DataBender
Well that stemmed from the parental advisory sticker on offensive music
kmikl
80's
cheeseguy3412
If only we could get anti-gambling laws involved. Current shit is similar to marketing cigarettes / alcohol to kids
NicotineLL
There are some actions taking place in the UK https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/76644w/my_mp_has_asked_the_british_government_to/
ironzerg
Except they're not marketing to kids with no money. It's aimed at adults who don't mind swiping a credit card every 10 seconds.
cheeseguy3412
For the most part, yeah - android / apple store games sure do though, not sure of the market share involved in either though
KeeleonOhms
I bet their biggest profits come from parents who dont understand what their kids are even doing and just give them whatever they want.
PiGiSpi
Oh yeah, I'm sure they're totally aimed at adults only. Like how they only market CoD to adults, with things like children's clothing.
ironzerg
Who do you think buys clothes for their children? Adults do. Who buys CoD stuff for kids? Adults who like CoD.
PiGiSpi
That is the most ridiculous excuse. And what do kids do? Tell parents what they want based on their interests.
blackburrd
Idk, they successfully made the argument that seeing a cig add in the gas station makes kids likely to smoke. I think this could happen.
ironzerg
So a microtransaction in a game makes kids more likely to...what? Spend money on video games?
Laimbrane
Actually, more likely to spend their parents' money on video games.
CthulhuSaidGoFuckYourself
Steal the parents credit card and use it to pay every 10s. Didnt apple have a problem similar to this? I think we could enforce smth.
kmikl
*80's crap about everything (LITERALLY EVERYTHING) corrupting kids.
SecondSince
It's of every time. "This (insert new thing) is corrupting our children!" And their parents said the same, and so did their parents.
kmikl
Yeah, the kids will be fine. They managed to drop the fidget spinner fad, and you can still get hard drugs to cut your xanax with.
todayimgurlearned
This video game rating system was actually a 90's thing that started with Night Trap and Mortal Kombat. The music industry version was 80's.
kmikl
It was an extension of the bullshit hysteria: the 80's was where literally everything (IDK if you lived through it) was corrupting kids.../1
todayimgurlearned
I did grow up during the hysteria of the 80's but it seemed like it was mostly music and drugs at the time. The 90's was all about 1/2
kmikl
/2 we were being told this by a group of people that recreationally ingested multiple types of drugs, seeking higher consciousness.
Corona688
I feel that's more down to your parents than anything. The hysteria never left, but much fewer parents care these days.
todayimgurlearned
violence in games, cartoons (Beavis and Butthead) and tv in general since the envelope was being pushed constantly.
kmikl
I just remember being lectured about D&D by my folks and asking if they had ever read the books: of course, not. Music, TV, etc. it was /1
Exctmonk
As a 90's kid and parent, I definitely view this as a corruption. It's like a gambling gateway drug. Let's make it happen.
DouchbagsCanBeNice
#makeithappen
sirkickass77
A lot of loot box systems emulate gambling machines like the slots. Bright colors indicating a win and that rush when u get a rare item/skin
krapmyself
Ah, you also have to be an incredibly incompetent loser who has failed as a parent and need a scapegoat to blame for your kids' bad behavior
ButchLobster
They never said their kid was misbehaving. He just said micro transactions are a corrupt system and should have rules.
ButchLobster
I can't see how believing that the game industry needs rules for micro transactions make them an incompetent looser
blackburrd
And there are just enough old silly people in Congress to get this done.
drangir
ESRB is driven by publishers, not Congress. In EU PEGI is even more independent from publishers, it's different type of organisation
RockMongler
The ESRB formed because publishers didn't want congress to legislate rules, so they made an organization to police themselves.
RubNipNotgay
pegi has colors, get rekt ESRB
drangir
People complained a lot after introduction of colors, they told it breaks the design of boxes XD
Archaeologistinasuit
ESRB has defended microtransactions as more like card collecting, also stating that it can't decide whether it's gamling or not.
YourFavoriteFriend
That only refers to games where you get an item you can resell. You are getting something that has value. It may only be pennies but still
YourFavoriteFriend
Gambling is when you pay for something and you potentially get NOTHING. Like ea's new swbf2
EveryGOPAccusationIsActuallyAnAdmission
That means that someone was bought off to say that...
Doomwing
The ESRB is literally run by EA, and the other video game companies.
AmandaGrace2770
Except with card collecting I don't have to buy booster packs, I can go to a card shop or another collector and buy what I want directly.
Archaeologistinasuit
I know it's a unique example, but you can do the same with skins from CSGO, those cases are lootboxes.
AmandaGrace2770
But I buy the boosters anyway for that sweet sweet dopamine rush. Fuck you MtG. Had to quit cold turkey because it was such a money sink.
CanPake
Yet they have "simulated gambling" as category
Archaeologistinasuit
Yes but that isn't with real money http://www.pcgamer.com/loot-boxes-are-not-gambling-according-to-the-esrb/
TeamRocketBlastOffAtTheSpeedOfLightSurrenderNowOrPrepareToFight
IIRC they said its not gambling because you always get something as a reward. That would be like saying a slot machine that costs $.25 to
TeamRocketBlastOffAtTheSpeedOfLightSurrenderNowOrPrepareToFight
but always gives you $.01 no mater what outcome is not gambling because you're always getting a reward....No. Its still fucking slots!
Different55
EU requires a 51% payout minimum to avoid the gambling classification. Still absolutely gambling, but it would give you 12¢ instead of 1¢.
Archaeologistinasuit
But if they classify it as gambling then you get a lot of games becom AO rated, which probably isn't in the interest for a lot of gamers
Ansatsunin
No - publishers would stop trying to shoehorn bullshit money-sucking constant-revenue-stream bullshit into games, or lose sales.
TeamRocketBlastOffAtTheSpeedOfLightSurrenderNowOrPrepareToFight
Really any lootbox system should be because a lot of times children are the ones pushing their parents to buy these lootboxs not know what