There were German's who felt about Nazism the same way Liberals do about Zionism, who continue to defend it even though it's Fascist tendencies is staring them in the face.
Like, no this is the logical end result. What you "remember" was just marketing.
The colonial zionist factions certainly gained power and prominence after ww2. As a culture they have changed, and for many factions not for the better.
Means and necessities have changed, this culture is new. A culture fit for expanding colony fighting for survival in a foreign land. There was no uniform culture or way of living other than a religion, and not even that. A german jewish professor of medicine creating modern concept of surgery had nothing in common with a tsiryulinik from shtetl in Ukraine, just as a bolshevik with an ortodox. Oppressors decided who qualifies.
She’s a loud-voiced, proud queer woman. While I cannot immediately recall her saying anything specifically in support of trans people, I believe she supports the entire community.
"there are two groups that say Jews and Zionists are the same. Nazis and Zionists" Zionists call everything said against them anti-Semitism, just to make sure no one will ever call them out for their heinous crimes. As long as we don't force everyone to differentiate between the two, nothing will change
I’m pretty sure the actual Jews Hitler was pissed about ruling Germany in the early 1900’s skipped out while he massacred all the innocent ones and they went on to rule Israel and help turn it into what it is today.
When I heard the phrase, "Never again!" I either missed the second half of the phrase where they said, "will this happen to us, but oh boy are we gonna do it to everyone else," or never is a lot shorter a period of time than I had thought.
The interesting thing is, they were more or less getting along with their muslim neighbours - and then the European jews got deported to the 'Brits got their hand on a ruler again' newly created state of Israel. With all that came alongside that, ie, literally driving people from their homes so that european jews could move in.
The 'will happen to us' has definitely been there. Whether it was implied or are is considering others human truly unthinkable in the Zionist mindset is a dilemma that's about to cease to be one.
Just take a look at the April 10th cover of L'Espresso.
I saw a joke that said "how to diagnose countries as mental health conditions" and it said Germany is Austism, France on narcissism, America is ADHD, and Israel is PTSD. very true for Israel, they are triggered by everyone around them and by their history.
I've always said, that it's up to actual good, decent, caring christians to call out the heretics on the terrorist-right. That word ONLY has meaning when it comes from THEM, no matter how legitimate our arguments are, as non-believers.
The same applies here. These demons and heathens are bastardizing those beliefs, and that history, to enact horrors for nothing but greed. To exterminate families, and take their homes before the blood even dries.
Just like people've been saying that it's up to decent Muslims to rein in the fanatics and extremists; everyone's got to clean their own house, or things will force their own solutions, which are always much, MUCH worse!
SUGGESTION, NOT CRITICISM: I encourage omitting the hyphen and writing "antisemitic" or "antisemitism." The word was invented by antisemites specifically to refer to hatred of Jews, and hyphenating the word, or worse, capitalizing "-Semitism," suggests that something called "Semitism" exists apart from the word antisemitism. The word isn't about Semitic languages or Semitic peoples or Nefarious International Jewry; it is and has only ever meant hatred of Jews.
It's cute how all my comments get deleted and i get warnings after suggesting Palestinians do to Israel what they have endured from their occupiers since the late 1940s
I visited a local temple with a friend a few times. Their rabbi always spoke with a very left wing slant. Always talking about social justice, compassion, building community with other people and other religions, charity, being civic minded, and so on. I'm so confused how that's my experience with Jewish people and then seeing what Israel is doing. It's the literal polar opposite.
Israel has a fair number of people who claim to be jewish, and it certainly wants to project the image of "the jewish state" to the world, but less than one third of "jews" live there. It's not clear whether that even appropriately includes all people who self-identify as "jewish", and it's equally unclear how much of this is ethnicity vs how much of it is religion. Additionally, Israeli propaganda conflates those with zionism, deliberately obfuscating the situation further.
The USA and UK claimed it was to be set up as a "home for jews", but of course it was really to be a political buffer for local influence. To summarize, Israel's doing what it's doing because it's run by genocidal colonialists. Its connection to judaism (either version) is the illusory artifice of propaganda and does not reflect upon the rabbi you knew or any other decent person.
Pretty much any religion that gains actual political power will start committing horrible acts of inhumanity. By in large, their "faith" was created to suppress and enslave. None of this is surprising. The leaders of these "faiths" are people who know how to leverage and manipulate. Religion has killed more people than any other human conceived system in human history.
I find it funny how someone found a new way to blame Hitler.
Don't get me wrong, I do think what he did was wrong in any way imaginable, but at what point will the Israeli take responsibility for the shit they are doing?
I feel like this misses the point, she's not blaming Hitler, she's saying she feels that he won. That what they did to themselves make him win retroactively.
This is why we should always say Zionists. There are terrific people out there like her and Gianmarco who speak out against what Israel is doing more than most people and it deserves to be noted.
Man I didnt need to hear to it believe it bc I have heard/seen plenty Jewish ppl say it, but the sound of speaking out in virtue and morality is a sound i will never get tired of hearing. Its like a warm hug walking into a warm cabin amidst the snowfall with pink in your cheeks, color drained from the cold. Feeling that to met with a warm fire from the hearth and your favorite hearty, warm you up, winter time meal. More like her, more like real Jewish ppl plz
Bibi has said that Israel will "hound" anyone who criticises the current state actions. Fuck israel, fuck bibi, and fuck anyone who puts religion/deity over humanity.
Even Zionism doesn't sound all that bad basically a homeland in the area where ethnic Jewish people live and had lived. But it's gone mental which happens when politics and religion mix.
Come on. I don't want to paint every single jew as evil, but zionism didn't come out of the blue. They have had rough relations with every single civilization that have been in contact with them. They are very xenophobic, the argument people of europe use against migration, is the same jews utilize to mantain their culture pure. Sure, the phrase in the image is poetic, but ignores reality.
It's really interesting because this is the same thing Muslims do when a Jihadist group kills a bunch of people or a right wing Christian nationalist shoots up a gay night club. That these people aren't X, they're Y and their motivations are divorced from X because reasons and No True Scotsman.
Judaism gets to use the extra card of anti-Semitism to defend the reality that without Judaism there wouldn't be Zionism or what we can rightly call right wing Jewish nationalism.
And with any deflections of "there are Christian Zionists", they only care that a country called Israel with capital in Jerusalem exists and don't give a toss about the rest, they blindly support whatever direction Jewish Zionists set. Bibi and his government are Jewish, settlers in West Bank are Jewish, Mossad is Jewish, IDF is Jewish, they're the ones committing the atrocities. This ideology is inseparable from religion and ethnicity.
The semantic dishonesty is important to understand. But Judaism, like every organized religion, has a duty to repudiate those who use that religion to justify harming others. She is right to call on her religion as a whole to stand against this. Let her be right.
I think that's a pretty unfair accusation against an old woman expressing a pretty understandable disillusionment and other feelings about her community's reaction to trauma.
Growing up my family would say "the best revenge is living well." because powerful people will be cruel, but there is the idea that the spirit endures and strengthens.
But what does it mean if the ordeal fundamentally changes you, to the point that what endures is not recognizable? A lethal blow, and one unavenged?
The problem is more than ideology. Specifically, no country, no people, should have the kind of power and latitude that Israel has been granted. Every other country in the world would be sanctioned to hell and back for what Israel has done, but Israel only gets more money and more weapons to continue. If you swap Israel with Hamas, and give them the same conditions, they'll do the same thing. The lesson is to hold all countries and people accountable. There must be a check on everyone's power,
An old anarchist acquaintance of mine said if you're looking for a modern-day, real-world example of what governing by anarchy looks like, it's the international community itself. No real structure, shifting coalitions, might makes right, thin veneer of toothless oversight, some people trying to help, some people trying to commit genocide, treaties that are only as strong as the last time they were enforced, etc. Eye opening.
For an anarchist, he seems to have a really low opinion of Anarchy. As a libertarian socialist type of anarchist, I'd point out that nation states are themselves hierarchical power structures which naturally concentrate the poisonous drug that is power, but positions of power attract abusers of power. Further, states are systemically unable to couch decisions in morality or humanity unlike flat power structures like worker co-ops which absolutely do.
and that includes the USA's. Zionism is really no different than America's Manifest Destiny. It's unfortunately a natural inclination for hegemon to believe in their own superiority, and to wield that sense of superiority as a weapon to dehumanize others. So we must all be a check on each other's power. By international law, Israel should be isolated into compliance with basic human decency.
This is absolutely not the NTS Fallacy. NTS requires an initial a posteriori claim, which in this case would need to be "No Jews are Zionist", which I'm fairly certain absolutely nobody has claimed, to then have to be moved to the "No true Jews are Zionist" secondary claim. Nobody has done the former. This isn't NTS.
I am Jewish, I have no affinity or interest in being an Israeli.. the true homeland for the Jews is NYC.. It is Chicago... It is Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Southfield, Los Angeles...
Ok. How's that change anything? You cannot separate Zionism from the Jewish religion because without it, it's not Zionism. Maybe I'm just bad at wording this, it's kinda like how every square is a rectangle you know? It's a set within a set
Every Christian Nationalist and Christofascist is a Christian... You cannot separate out the Christian Nationalists from the Christian religion, because without them, it isn't Christian Nationalism.
I would argue Christian Nationalism has nothing to do with Christianity just as Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism.
BarnegatLight
It's amazing how much damage is being caused in this world by three old men desperately clinging to power so they didn't go to jail
ArgentXero
There were German's who felt about Nazism the same way Liberals do about Zionism, who continue to defend it even though it's Fascist tendencies is staring them in the face.
Like, no this is the logical end result. What you "remember" was just marketing.
jaggcomputing5
Yeah, nah. At this point guns win over words.
unannouncedguest
Seems like only Jews can change what is happening.... Or some tactical nukes
Gandzialfman
And jews before holocaust were all compassionate and caring angels, not normal society with good and bad sides. That's how colonial projects always go
meme2zombie
The colonial zionist factions certainly gained power and prominence after ww2. As a culture they have changed, and for many factions not for the better.
Gandzialfman
Means and necessities have changed, this culture is new. A culture fit for expanding colony fighting for survival in a foreign land. There was no uniform culture or way of living other than a religion, and not even that. A german jewish professor of medicine creating modern concept of surgery had nothing in common with a tsiryulinik from shtetl in Ukraine, just as a bolshevik with an ortodox. Oppressors decided who qualifies.
Gryphonosiris
They have made Professor Sprout sad... shame on them all.
Aranon1183
I've a feeling she's an ally for Trans
LaurenLikesStuff
She’s a loud-voiced, proud queer woman. While I cannot immediately recall her saying anything specifically in support of trans people, I believe she supports the entire community.
ironymus
"there are two groups that say Jews and Zionists are the same. Nazis and Zionists" Zionists call everything said against them anti-Semitism, just to make sure no one will ever call them out for their heinous crimes. As long as we don't force everyone to differentiate between the two, nothing will change
buttcreambandit
I’m pretty sure the actual Jews Hitler was pissed about ruling Germany in the early 1900’s skipped out while he massacred all the innocent ones and they went on to rule Israel and help turn it into what it is today.
Nukls
amundost
Well... they might be showing what they want others to do to them?
JohnSmithterms
Ummm killing innocent men too lets not forget. Another example of how its perfectly ok for men to die in a war. No one bats a fucking eye.
tempUser7824
When I heard the phrase, "Never again!" I either missed the second half of the phrase where they said, "will this happen to us, but oh boy are we gonna do it to everyone else," or never is a lot shorter a period of time than I had thought.
DocNitro
The interesting thing is, they were more or less getting along with their muslim neighbours - and then the European jews got deported to the 'Brits got their hand on a ruler again' newly created state of Israel. With all that came alongside that, ie, literally driving people from their homes so that european jews could move in.
Nukls
just add punctuation; never?again!
JahSureYouBetcha
Margrave9000
The 'will happen to us' has definitely been there. Whether it was implied or are is considering others human truly unthinkable in the Zionist mindset is a dilemma that's about to cease to be one.
Just take a look at the April 10th cover of L'Espresso.
Lethous
I saw a joke that said "how to diagnose countries as mental health conditions" and it said Germany is Austism, France on narcissism, America is ADHD, and Israel is PTSD. very true for Israel, they are triggered by everyone around them and by their history.
NonstopRampage
I've always said, that it's up to actual good, decent, caring christians to call out the heretics on the terrorist-right. That word ONLY has meaning when it comes from THEM, no matter how legitimate our arguments are, as non-believers.
The same applies here. These demons and heathens are bastardizing those beliefs, and that history, to enact horrors for nothing but greed. To exterminate families, and take their homes before the blood even dries.
OhIfIMust
Just like people've been saying that it's up to decent Muslims to rein in the fanatics and extremists; everyone's got to clean their own house, or things will force their own solutions, which are always much, MUCH worse!
paullyboy1999
But that is antisemitic!!!!
Nukls
not being pro-semitic
has become anti-semitic
SixSixxtySix
Not being sufficiently pro-Zionist.
glaug
SUGGESTION, NOT CRITICISM: I encourage omitting the hyphen and writing "antisemitic" or "antisemitism." The word was invented by antisemites specifically to refer to hatred of Jews, and hyphenating the word, or worse, capitalizing "-Semitism," suggests that something called "Semitism" exists apart from the word antisemitism. The word isn't about Semitic languages or Semitic peoples or Nefarious International Jewry; it is and has only ever meant hatred of Jews.
Nukls
i hear your suggestion,
and take it as an opportunity
to become more refined and informed.
ottocrrct will learn how to correctly spell that today
paullyboy1999
Fact. What a blessed timeline we are experiencing
howsyourmemes
It's cute how all my comments get deleted and i get warnings after suggesting Palestinians do to Israel what they have endured from their occupiers since the late 1940s
DaHayHay
She is always right.
TheLastSpaceman
She is KHAMAAAAS lol
thatwoodguy
Isn't it needs you who said that you have to be careful how you fight because you can become what you fight
drunkbs
I loved her in the movie, The Apple.
thebonesofmyancestors
I visited a local temple with a friend a few times. Their rabbi always spoke with a very left wing slant. Always talking about social justice, compassion, building community with other people and other religions, charity, being civic minded, and so on. I'm so confused how that's my experience with Jewish people and then seeing what Israel is doing. It's the literal polar opposite.
Corrodias
Israel has a fair number of people who claim to be jewish, and it certainly wants to project the image of "the jewish state" to the world, but less than one third of "jews" live there. It's not clear whether that even appropriately includes all people who self-identify as "jewish", and it's equally unclear how much of this is ethnicity vs how much of it is religion. Additionally, Israeli propaganda conflates those with zionism, deliberately obfuscating the situation further.
Corrodias
The USA and UK claimed it was to be set up as a "home for jews", but of course it was really to be a political buffer for local influence. To summarize, Israel's doing what it's doing because it's run by genocidal colonialists. Its connection to judaism (either version) is the illusory artifice of propaganda and does not reflect upon the rabbi you knew or any other decent person.
wazeewa
"Hitler won" - Two words that should NEVER be uttered together.
Resistance1000
Even when the situation demands it?
TheWeebleWobler
Time for fire and brimstone to reign down on the heretics.
jwillywill
https://imgur.com/u1lYjlW.mp4
SirDaemos
Pretty much any religion that gains actual political power will start committing horrible acts of inhumanity. By in large, their "faith" was created to suppress and enslave. None of this is surprising. The leaders of these "faiths" are people who know how to leverage and manipulate. Religion has killed more people than any other human conceived system in human history.
germansparklepartey
I find it funny how someone found a new way to blame Hitler.
Don't get me wrong, I do think what he did was wrong in any way imaginable, but at what point will the Israeli take responsibility for the shit they are doing?
meme2zombie
I feel like this misses the point, she's not blaming Hitler, she's saying she feels that he won. That what they did to themselves make him win retroactively.
pandajack
If Hitler was tweeting today which meme would he post right now?
Resistance1000
And which news media would have the balls to describe his evil and which ones would bothsides him, like they do with tRump?
Nukls
idk. probably something about how Neanderthals may never have truly gone extinct.
Mirrormancer
For anyone that would like to *hear* her words, just in case they doubt her stance. Love this woman, and a terrific actress too.
EricPisch
I loved her in Rake
Nukls
thanks for posting
Yes, i do want to hear Her voice
Nukls
awkungen42
This is why we should always say Zionists. There are terrific people out there like her and Gianmarco who speak out against what Israel is doing more than most people and it deserves to be noted.
WiiShaker
To hear her say "in my lifetime" is some pretty harrowing shit.
philmoregraves
Man I didnt need to hear to it believe it bc I have heard/seen plenty Jewish ppl say it, but the sound of speaking out in virtue and morality is a sound i will never get tired of hearing. Its like a warm hug walking into a warm cabin amidst the snowfall with pink in your cheeks, color drained from the cold. Feeling that to met with a warm fire from the hearth and your favorite hearty, warm you up, winter time meal. More like her, more like real Jewish ppl plz
casbott
I'm just disappointed to find out that she's anti-semetic

[sArCaSiM ....]
flounder35
I want her and Cathy Burke to double team this shit.
FestusMA
A lovely voice
spittytrinkles
She is a bloody legend.
fartharder
She's a gem is what she is
pan069
The virus jumped host.
BallsToYouMyGoodSir
no harry potter gifs of nevil passing out on imgur insert one here --->
pm1001
Countdown to Miriam margolyes being arrested, 10,9,8... UK has fallen almost as far as usa
tgiaa
Doesn't she live in rural Australia?
TsubakiTragic
Bibi has said that Israel will "hound" anyone who criticises the current state actions. Fuck israel, fuck bibi, and fuck anyone who puts religion/deity over humanity.
psmith00
the Jews in Israel that protest the IDF actions are treated just as bad by the IDF as the Palestinians.
bippityboppitybuttsex
The problem is Zionism, not Judaism.
dghughes
Even Zionism doesn't sound all that bad basically a homeland in the area where ethnic Jewish people live and had lived. But it's gone mental which happens when politics and religion mix.
brazzy42
Huh, good luck with that view here.p
meme2zombie
And before WW2 the Zionists were happy to work with Fascists to get their own country. Bibi's father was part of that faction.
YouRadicalizedMe
bippityboppitybuttsex
I am Jewish and I hate Israel
Altqwenta
Come on. I don't want to paint every single jew as evil, but zionism didn't come out of the blue. They have had rough relations with every single civilization that have been in contact with them. They are very xenophobic, the argument people of europe use against migration, is the same jews utilize to mantain their culture pure. Sure, the phrase in the image is poetic, but ignores reality.
Goldensands
The problem is cults. Every one of them. Christianity 2.
Razade
It's really interesting because this is the same thing Muslims do when a Jihadist group kills a bunch of people or a right wing Christian nationalist shoots up a gay night club. That these people aren't X, they're Y and their motivations are divorced from X because reasons and No True Scotsman.
Judaism gets to use the extra card of anti-Semitism to defend the reality that without Judaism there wouldn't be Zionism or what we can rightly call right wing Jewish nationalism.
SalmonTheWise
And with any deflections of "there are Christian Zionists", they only care that a country called Israel with capital in Jerusalem exists and don't give a toss about the rest, they blindly support whatever direction Jewish Zionists set. Bibi and his government are Jewish, settlers in West Bank are Jewish, Mossad is Jewish, IDF is Jewish, they're the ones committing the atrocities. This ideology is inseparable from religion and ethnicity.
KuldFyt
The semantic dishonesty is important to understand. But Judaism, like every organized religion, has a duty to repudiate those who use that religion to justify harming others. She is right to call on her religion as a whole to stand against this. Let her be right.
thinkybrainpains
Stares at USA White Christian Nationalism, which is its own foundation for genocide, based on lies, just as Zionism is
knotwingknot
I think that's a pretty unfair accusation against an old woman expressing a pretty understandable disillusionment and other feelings about her community's reaction to trauma.
Growing up my family would say "the best revenge is living well." because powerful people will be cruel, but there is the idea that the spirit endures and strengthens.
But what does it mean if the ordeal fundamentally changes you, to the point that what endures is not recognizable? A lethal blow, and one unavenged?
brazzy42
And imgur has a huge antisemitism problem, as evidenced by half the responses here...
TheOvy
The problem is more than ideology. Specifically, no country, no people, should have the kind of power and latitude that Israel has been granted. Every other country in the world would be sanctioned to hell and back for what Israel has done, but Israel only gets more money and more weapons to continue. If you swap Israel with Hamas, and give them the same conditions, they'll do the same thing. The lesson is to hold all countries and people accountable. There must be a check on everyone's power,
crazyspelling
An old anarchist acquaintance of mine said if you're looking for a modern-day, real-world example of what governing by anarchy looks like, it's the international community itself. No real structure, shifting coalitions, might makes right, thin veneer of toothless oversight, some people trying to help, some people trying to commit genocide, treaties that are only as strong as the last time they were enforced, etc. Eye opening.
RoseHarmonic
For an anarchist, he seems to have a really low opinion of Anarchy. As a libertarian socialist type of anarchist, I'd point out that nation states are themselves hierarchical power structures which naturally concentrate the poisonous drug that is power, but positions of power attract abusers of power. Further, states are systemically unable to couch decisions in morality or humanity unlike flat power structures like worker co-ops which absolutely do.
TheOvy
and that includes the USA's. Zionism is really no different than America's Manifest Destiny. It's unfortunately a natural inclination for hegemon to believe in their own superiority, and to wield that sense of superiority as a weapon to dehumanize others. So we must all be a check on each other's power. By international law, Israel should be isolated into compliance with basic human decency.
critikaster
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1cnd6c3Fxa2VteHF0YjNkOTRxeXc0NTVqMmd6cXFlZTNkNXlvYTRicCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/nBll4Cr7r5Y8WyIJb2/200w.webp
tgiaa
No true Scotsman fallacy
PinkyTheUnicorn2
This is absolutely not the NTS Fallacy. NTS requires an initial a posteriori claim, which in this case would need to be "No Jews are Zionist", which I'm fairly certain absolutely nobody has claimed, to then have to be moved to the "No true Jews are Zionist" secondary claim. Nobody has done the former. This isn't NTS.
zFUBARz
Do you realize how stupid and probably bigoted your statement is in a post about a literal jewish woman who is not a zionist?
tgiaa
My response was not in response to Miriam, it was to the meme
paintbullits
How very convenient that you can separate these two things so easily /s
bippityboppitybuttsex
It is quite easy.
I am Jewish, I have no affinity or interest in being an Israeli.. the true homeland for the Jews is NYC.. It is Chicago... It is Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Southfield, Los Angeles...
paintbullits
Ok. How's that change anything? You cannot separate Zionism from the Jewish religion because without it, it's not Zionism. Maybe I'm just bad at wording this, it's kinda like how every square is a rectangle you know? It's a set within a set
bippityboppitybuttsex
Every Christian Nationalist and Christofascist is a Christian... You cannot separate out the Christian Nationalists from the Christian religion, because without them, it isn't Christian Nationalism.
I would argue Christian Nationalism has nothing to do with Christianity just as Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism.
paintbullits
Interesting. I agree with the first paragraph completely, not the second