It really sucks that we're the only species with kind of consciousness we have. It's not just homophobia we exhibit exclusively, but millions of other things a complex mind requires, too.
Not to contradict OP's point of view, but in many of the species where same sex orientation appears, the "offenders" are hounded away from the herds or even killed.
I don't share that point of view, but it should be noted.
Big [citation needed]. I wouldn't know how to verify this assertion academically, but I'd at least expect to be able to find some support for it via Google, and I haven't turned up anything on any of the search terms I've tried. Which is surprising in a world where a lot of people are interested in attacking homosexuality and would like to amplify stuff like that. So. Got anything to back that up?
Im not an expert in these things, but my theory is that homosexuality is a natural response to overpopulation, which is why its more common in more densly populated areas.
Another theory is that homosexuals act as a reservoir for genes who have less of a chance of dying via alpha competition for reproductive resources. (Although your theory *does* make a lot of sense!)
one big problem is that nature tries out everything that is possible without judging. so homosexuality is a natural occurence, but it is also a proof, that nature works different than what is written in that "holy" book. i cannot say if there is a higher being , but if it created our world, it gave us maximum freedom of choice as long as you do not harm others and homosexuality harms nobody
I recently learn that lesbian dolphins use their echolocation while pressing their rostrum against another lesbian dolphins genitals to use it like a vibrator. Nature really is amazing.
This is a ridiculous argument. It's probably not even true, but even if it is, something being in the animal kingdom in no way should justify anything we humans do. Some animals can be extraordinary assholes to other animals, both their own species and other non-prey species.
You do realize the point isn't to excuse it due to it existing in the animal kingdom (which we are a part of as well), its to counter the common argument from the ignorant that homosexuality is "unnatural".
Way to willfully miss the read there. The point is, "it's natural, it happened before us, it happens without us, we're the only ones with a problem with it" -- but sure, pretend you think they're saying "we should do what animals do" because it gives you an excuse and definitely doesn't make you look like a clown.
Humans are animals. Animals are imperfect, highly variable, unique and also all similar in some way. It's truly amazing that so much life and diversity can be evident all around us, and yet some humans get so angry and upset about what other humans do with their own free will.
That we know of. Maybe chimps, apes, monkeys, are just a shitty as we are. They sure do the tribalism like we do. Would be sad to find out that such thoughts are natural as a brain is capable of having more complex thoughts and you have to evolve past such things. Mind I didnt say it was /ok/, just that having /thoughts/ is a result of being capable of complex thinking, and choosing not to be shitty should be the path picked.
They don't do norm enforcement like we do. I looked into it recently when wondering if they would get mad at seeing us open a banana the "wrong" way. They don't care
Most of the other primates we've had the opportunity to study are FAR more relaxed about sexuality (And even the ones who don't use sex like we use handshakes, still treat homosexual behavior as a normal occurrence)
Yea, remember that back in the Roman times it was also highly accepted, as was the fact that earth was a ball, not flat. Then that one religion took off and here we are
Yea, we dont exactly have a whole lotta texts from the americas for BC era views on the subjects. I dont remember reading much about those cultures but a lot has been discovered in the last 50 years that I am not up dated on. Plato, et al, belived the earth was round and IIRC it was accepted till later. Yes its reductionist, if imgur not a essay on historic civilizations. 'Widely accepted' doesnt mean 'everyone', all cultures have people like Cato
Not maybe, 100% definitely. By human standards chimps are psychotic. A lion cub has like a 15% survival rate and the usual cause of death is being killed by another adult lion. Dolphins have been regularly observed tormenting porpoises seemingly for fun. Plenty of animals do some pretty awful shit.
It’s almost like intelligence causes shit behaviour. But then looking at humans that goes bith up and down. More? Exploitive. Less? Plain cruelty. We’re hust animals, that think we’re better than other animals after all.
I'm not really sure about that. Elephants have rituals that serve no purpose to survive. No it's not a religion we usually think of, but more like those that respect the nature.
Humans are the only species with the God gene. Worshiping is encoded in our DNA. If you haven't heard about it and want to go down a rabbit hole, it's interesting to say the least.
I'm convinced crows and ravens are religious. I saw them conniving mfers having a private meeting once and it felt like I was NOT supposed to be watching.
There is something of protoreligious behavior in some species. Elephants burying their dead. And i believe Chimps do a rain dance for coming storms. I also heard of another animal that will challenge thunderstorms. (Citation needed on this one as i can't find anything on it.)
I mean, they do have some rituals. Some animals do I mean not all obvs. And you could argue rituals are a precursor or a predecessor of religions. So you know, wouldn't put it past crows, dolphins or cephalopods to be dealing in some weird shit.
To be fair, other species may also have religion and various forms of bigotry. We just lack the ability to communicate with them sufficiently to find out.
Absolutely they do. Not being racist here, but growing up in the suburbs - my dog was 100% racists against black people. She didn’t bark at anyone but black people. And it was aggressive. FWIW- German Shepard - non aggressive- suburbs, so not a lot of POC socially, but a noticed reaction from her compared to anyone else approaching the house.
Well, they do have a sense of burial/death rituals, which are (anthropologically speaking) among the first signs of a religion. Humans started burying their dead and putting meaning to it beyond keeping scavengers away; elephants have hidden places where they go to die, etc. Plus, the whole trunk-raising before war (ancient Greek days) and ritual bathing.
To be fair we may not know their religion. Like deer seem to have a "blood for the blood god" type religion. Hence the ritualistic suicide through traffic.
They give pebbles to the special penguin they like, just like I used to do on the playground in elementary school. And still do today at 50yo. Now THAT is a belief system if I ever saw one. Relatable af.
My wildest opinion is that we exist at a very strange point in evolution where we've developed higher reasoning and conceptual thinking skills, but we are still subject to the whims of our lizard brain, and the combination of the two trying to work together produces some very bizarre results.
As a species we are obsessively curious, its a trait that is so inherently human that even if you think you arent curious, I bet you can identify one or two areas that you are.
And the curious like answers, more specifically they like coming up with potential answers and then furiously debating those potential answers.
What question is more fundamental than "Why?".
And because its a question with unimaginable scope, we've come up with some pretty unimaginable 1/
Beings and theories to fill that void. People are often surprised to learn that on average around 60% of scientists across all disciplines, are some level of religious. Very few are atheists, and more than a few got into science because being told god is mysterious and his reasons are mysterious, is a deeply unsatisfying answer. 2
I could see ravens having a theology but dolphins are just pure hedonists. Octopus on the other hand probably lack a comprehensive theological view but would probably be the one that causes humans the most concern.
It's not like humans haven't had hedonistic gods. I think dolphins would be down with Dionysus, Hedone, Siduri, Olidammara, Hathor, Kama, Xochipilli, Tlazolteotl, Osun, Min, Nanaya, Freyja, Pan, Rati, Daikokuten, and so many others
Forgive my ignorance, but aren't those all from polytheistic religious belief systems where other deities fill out the remainder of human attributes/areas of concern? I meant that dolphins would be unable of conceptualizing anything besides the hedonism. Essentially a monotheism of Dionysus for example.
The Christian/Islamic/Judaism one god also comes from a polytheistic faith. The "one god" is just the storm god of the Israelite Parthenon, and even talks about other gods (and is other gods) in his own books. Monotheism is so rare that even in the only time it has existed it didn't start that way. And in polytheistic religions people tended to choose to worship/follow only 1 or 2 of them
ToSisPoS
I don’t know I’ve seen some pretty bigoted sardines
Bowtie8bit
It really sucks that we're the only species with kind of consciousness we have. It's not just homophobia we exhibit exclusively, but millions of other things a complex mind requires, too.
TheNextPresident
The goddamned Queer-Hating Malaysian Macaque.
hamulusrex
Remember when that dude used to host America's funniest home videos? Simpler times. I miss those
Fucdemocracy
@OP that's not true and you can't know that. You're just assuming that. Animals have killed their own species for a lot less than homophobia.
Shawnofavitch
Good luck spittin' facts to a cult...
EverNotRelevant
You say that only because you've never heard of the Bangladeshi gay-bashing lizard
509tigerfish
Homophobia is against the teachings of Jesus - John Fugelsang
jetact12
Yup. 10% of all life bonding species. And in us? 10%
CharlesTooke
Not to contradict OP's point of view, but in many of the species where same sex orientation appears, the "offenders" are hounded away from the herds or even killed.
I don't share that point of view, but it should be noted.
TheDildoOfConsequences
Big [citation needed]. I wouldn't know how to verify this assertion academically, but I'd at least expect to be able to find some support for it via Google, and I haven't turned up anything on any of the search terms I've tried. Which is surprising in a world where a lot of people are interested in attacking homosexuality and would like to amplify stuff like that. So. Got anything to back that up?
wowbaggerthethird
[citation needed]
do7rkb5n
Agreed. If there is none, this is no better than any other rage bait.
Jaqdakloun
And it's a choice by that one
Thatguywhodidthething
We don't know that. Penguins could be bigoted as all hell and I couldn't tell the difference.
RedJacketHero
Im not an expert in these things, but my theory is that homosexuality is a natural response to overpopulation, which is why its more common in more densly populated areas.
Bizarkly
Another theory is that homosexuals act as a reservoir for genes who have less of a chance of dying via alpha competition for reproductive resources. (Although your theory *does* make a lot of sense!)
SMarkt
one big problem is that nature tries out everything that is possible without judging. so homosexuality is a natural occurence, but it is also a proof, that nature works different than what is written in that "holy" book. i cannot say if there is a higher being , but if it created our world, it gave us maximum freedom of choice as long as you do not harm others and homosexuality harms nobody
DropDrop
I recently learn that lesbian dolphins use their echolocation while pressing their rostrum against another lesbian dolphins genitals to use it like a vibrator. Nature really is amazing.
GhostofCharlieKirk
Who watched 1500 gay animals bone. And where do you sign up?
kdwaynec
aeroldoth
Homophobia only occurs in one, because religion only occurs in one.
Resistance1000
CelestialSea
Religion also occurs in only one species. Coincidence? Not fucking likely.
imyourrealdad
Trolls are the only species that are homophobic.
whyforetho
what about those cats with the different color eyes
DumpingSh1tandBeingKind2
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ZTE2eDIycW1pZXdkZ2gxczI2NjUwdG5xNzAxM2J0NXl3dGE2YnAyNyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/zn1dT0Z7b6lhL6xQ35/200w.webp
xmaneds
I can't understand people who have arachnaphobia, just let spiders get married already
EricAirheart
Humans have that too. And dogs (huskys).
anarchoFeline
i know the joke is "i love cats with homophobia' but the condition is called heterochromia so it really should be heterophobia
quade
They have a groovy mutation.
DumpingSh1tandBeingKind2
My daughter has the same groovy mutation!
whatsisname
This is a ridiculous argument. It's probably not even true, but even if it is, something being in the animal kingdom in no way should justify anything we humans do. Some animals can be extraordinary assholes to other animals, both their own species and other non-prey species.
slightlybrokenegg
Yeah you’re right you should stop drinking water to prove it.
Rips4w
You do realize the point isn't to excuse it due to it existing in the animal kingdom (which we are a part of as well), its to counter the common argument from the ignorant that homosexuality is "unnatural".
fubizdaddie
Way to willfully miss the read there. The point is, "it's natural, it happened before us, it happens without us, we're the only ones with a problem with it" -- but sure, pretend you think they're saying "we should do what animals do" because it gives you an excuse and definitely doesn't make you look like a clown.
pleaseuseotherdoor
Humans are animals. Animals are imperfect, highly variable, unique and also all similar in some way.
It's truly amazing that so much life and diversity can be evident all around us, and yet some humans get so angry and upset about what other humans do with their own free will.
commentsivehadafew
Not to be confused with mofophobia
chinesemario
Scared of my dad...
lurkerthatoccationallywantstocomment
Or arachnophobia. Just let the spiders get married already
imgurianitarian
Not until the females stop consuming the males. Misandry needs to stop too!
OhIfIMust
Not to be confused with misophonia.
ToSisPoS
Oh Fuck You and your mastications.
EccentricNimoy
Mastication, you say? By Current Value: https://youtu.be/sKw-P2NO1Jg?si=AHe2koOFDb96U7wF
ToSisPoS
You have no power over me!!
BenderRodriguz1010
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1dmoxaXhkMWJydzlqdnljdGQ0MTJiMDBzb25xd3lqajg3aHFhYWIwYyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/o2Bw3O7wjnAWI/200w.webp
NooPogodi
Not to be AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
whiskeywonka
That we know of. Maybe chimps, apes, monkeys, are just a shitty as we are. They sure do the tribalism like we do. Would be sad to find out that such thoughts are natural as a brain is capable of having more complex thoughts and you have to evolve past such things. Mind I didnt say it was /ok/, just that having /thoughts/ is a result of being capable of complex thinking, and choosing not to be shitty should be the path picked.
draek1
They don't do norm enforcement like we do. I looked into it recently when wondering if they would get mad at seeing us open a banana the "wrong" way. They don't care
OtterlyMagnificent
Most of the other primates we've had the opportunity to study are FAR more relaxed about sexuality (And even the ones who don't use sex like we use handshakes, still treat homosexual behavior as a normal occurrence)
whiskeywonka
Yea, remember that back in the Roman times it was also highly accepted, as was the fact that earth was a ball, not flat. Then that one religion took off and here we are
EmanNiemThcin
Euro-exclusive, reductionist and incorrect. Go ask Cato the Elder what he thinks about the topic.
whiskeywonka
Yea, we dont exactly have a whole lotta texts from the americas for BC era views on the subjects. I dont remember reading much about those cultures but a lot has been discovered in the last 50 years that I am not up dated on. Plato, et al, belived the earth was round and IIRC it was accepted till later. Yes its reductionist, if imgur not a essay on historic civilizations. 'Widely accepted' doesnt mean 'everyone', all cultures have people like Cato
EmanNiemThcin
Believe it or not, but there's more continents than Europe and the Americas.
whatsisname
Not maybe, 100% definitely. By human standards chimps are psychotic. A lion cub has like a 15% survival rate and the usual cause of death is being killed by another adult lion. Dolphins have been regularly observed tormenting porpoises seemingly for fun. Plenty of animals do some pretty awful shit.
whiskeywonka
Oh yea I forgot dolphins are utter dicks. They rape at will and even have killed things just to rape their corpses.
ToenailClippingsJar
It’s almost like intelligence causes shit behaviour. But then looking at humans that goes bith up and down. More? Exploitive. Less? Plain cruelty.
We’re hust animals, that think we’re better than other animals after all.
whiskeywonka
I am postulating its a side effect of creativity. Not sure why it gets twisted, hurt people hurt people so it might be that 'simple'.
ToenailClippingsJar
That can be true as well. Not in all cases (present company an example), but often absolutely.
PleaseRespectMyAsshole
Male otters are absolutely terrible as well. Cute but terrible.
VariousTypesOfPurple
'phenomena' is plural. should be 'phenomenon', which is singular
BenjyX55
I thought it was that one muppet song.
HappyTimeHollis
Nah, it's LL Cool J.
emu314159127001
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1MXZuZTJsNWc5a3FwaTFhc3BrNTR2ZDlrMmRtc2hzMWs1MjNxenU3cCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/l4FGA2XplwqFDcLwk/200w.webp
Felderburg
But it happens multiple times (over 1500, apparently).
VariousTypesOfPurple
Literacy is a dying art.
Felderburg
I mean sure maybe, but languages evolve and everyone knows what the speaker means.
atoyot
But it was referring to a single phenomenon, homosexuality.
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
Do do a do do
Tr4desman
Came for this. Didn't disappoint. +1
xtav
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nMAbc2jftY
MotoCanuck
Max Verstappen?
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
Yes
quade
I don't know of any other species with religion, either.
SergeyPrkl
I'm not really sure about that. Elephants have rituals that serve no purpose to survive. No it's not a religion we usually think of, but more like those that respect the nature.
iquestionthepinappleeveryday
Pretty sure my dogs worship me… just saying
TheDiscoVampire
Humans are the only species with the God gene. Worshiping is encoded in our DNA. If you haven't heard about it and want to go down a rabbit hole, it's interesting to say the least.
mikeatike
Cats have a religion. However in it, they are the gods
tickticktickboon
I'm convinced crows and ravens are religious. I saw them conniving mfers having a private meeting once and it felt like I was NOT supposed to be watching.
fubizdaddie
That's not religion. Nothing about that implies religion. You're convinced crows and ravens have religion because you want to be.
Nyrawin
Pretty sure that was a joke.
SirenSinger17
Pigeons...
Silversalvation
There is something of protoreligious behavior in some species. Elephants burying their dead. And i believe Chimps do a rain dance for coming storms. I also heard of another animal that will challenge thunderstorms. (Citation needed on this one as i can't find anything on it.)
theobstruction
We don't actually know what other species think about either of these, one way or another.
quade
They tell me what they are thinking pretty frequently...
Picoshi
I mean, they do have some rituals. Some animals do I mean not all obvs. And you could argue rituals are a precursor or a predecessor of religions. So you know, wouldn't put it past crows, dolphins or cephalopods to be dealing in some weird shit.
LicensedAdHominem
They made pigeons superstitious so I'm sure you could make them religious and homophobic as well. We have the technology
Iwouldbenick
Amen. No other spices have cults.
reichstein
To be fair, other species may also have religion and various forms of bigotry. We just lack the ability to communicate with them sufficiently to find out.
iquestionthepinappleeveryday
Absolutely they do. Not being racist here, but growing up in the suburbs - my dog was 100% racists against black people. She didn’t bark at anyone but black people. And it was aggressive. FWIW- German Shepard - non aggressive- suburbs, so not a lot of POC socially, but a noticed reaction from her compared to anyone else approaching the house.
BesticlesTesticles
Pretty sure cats have a religion … but they’re the Gods
MikuJess
There's valid critiques of its methodology, but I have seen a study that some elephant herds/tribes seems to be developing a form of sun worship.
quade
Well, they do have a sense of burial/death rituals, which are (anthropologically speaking) among the first signs of a religion. Humans started burying their dead and putting meaning to it beyond keeping scavengers away; elephants have hidden places where they go to die, etc. Plus, the whole trunk-raising before war (ancient Greek days) and ritual bathing.
iquestionthepinappleeveryday
Pretty sure earlier hominids were also doing that before sapiens. The Neanderthal is closest to mind.
iquestionthepinappleeveryday
And not just for protection from scavengers, but burying with items like jewelry and such.
tzahtman
Or novels, or airplanes, or International Space Stations, or Science, or Imgur, or...
Picoshi
Opposable thumbs are a hell of a drug
wejustdontknow
Wild voles often have novels.
quade
*novoles
chansuke
Highly optimistic to place imgur anywhere near the heights of human capabilities.
DukeDarkwood
Heights? No. Human-unique? Certainly. In addition to the highs and lows, many things that are uniquely human are mediocre.
Kemi337
Doritos
johnxbear
To be fair we may not know their religion. Like deer seem to have a "blood for the blood god" type religion. Hence the ritualistic suicide through traffic.
QuackMagicAndHerMagicalBeer
quade
No, that's because those idiots at the DOT put the Deer Crossings in high-traffic areas rather than in places where they can cross safely. Duh.
Zeterai
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
SteveTheEgg
Happy Feet leads me to believe Penguins have a belief system.
quade
They give pebbles to the special penguin they like, just like I used to do on the playground in elementary school. And still do today at 50yo. Now THAT is a belief system if I ever saw one. Relatable af.
johnxbear
doctorId
My wildest opinion is that we exist at a very strange point in evolution where we've developed higher reasoning and conceptual thinking skills, but we are still subject to the whims of our lizard brain, and the combination of the two trying to work together produces some very bizarre results.
FrancsTireur
Its more innate than that.
As a species we are obsessively curious, its a trait that is so inherently human that even if you think you arent curious, I bet you can identify one or two areas that you are.
And the curious like answers, more specifically they like coming up with potential answers and then furiously debating those potential answers.
What question is more fundamental than "Why?".
And because its a question with unimaginable scope, we've come up with some pretty unimaginable 1/
FrancsTireur
Beings and theories to fill that void. People are often surprised to learn that on average around 60% of scientists across all disciplines, are some level of religious. Very few are atheists, and more than a few got into science because being told god is mysterious and his reasons are mysterious, is a deeply unsatisfying answer. 2
IlluminaBlade
Gotta be something going on with Ravens and Dolphins.
murderdactyl
Or the orcas and their weird ass salmon hats.
MyGreatestFearBoner
Just low key murder and getting high off pufferfish then using them like a fleshlight.
mastikator
Sounds like a great foundation for a cult that will blossom into a religion
chansuke
I could see ravens having a theology but dolphins are just pure hedonists. Octopus on the other hand probably lack a comprehensive theological view but would probably be the one that causes humans the most concern.
quade
Basically, the plot of The Mountain in the Sea
Forensickle
It's not like humans haven't had hedonistic gods.
I think dolphins would be down with Dionysus, Hedone, Siduri, Olidammara, Hathor, Kama, Xochipilli, Tlazolteotl, Osun, Min, Nanaya, Freyja, Pan, Rati, Daikokuten, and so many others
chansuke
Forgive my ignorance, but aren't those all from polytheistic religious belief systems where other deities fill out the remainder of human attributes/areas of concern? I meant that dolphins would be unable of conceptualizing anything besides the hedonism. Essentially a monotheism of Dionysus for example.
Forensickle
The Christian/Islamic/Judaism one god also comes from a polytheistic faith. The "one god" is just the storm god of the Israelite Parthenon, and even talks about other gods (and is other gods) in his own books.
Monotheism is so rare that even in the only time it has existed it didn't start that way.
And in polytheistic religions people tended to choose to worship/follow only 1 or 2 of them
DumpingSh1tandBeingKind2
Imo, that's because that's just man made bullshit...
MotoCanuck
praise the sun.
WiiShaker
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1Z2w0aHFveXNmYnJ2d2RpNTJzM2ZwcGE5MHl1eGQwNnlsb211ZXhiYyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/AQRapWCgC7dThyVEYb/200w.webp
BenderRodriguz1010
George said it best i think lol
DumpingSh1tandBeingKind2
So fucking true!!! Not to mention the bullshit of pregnant virgin!! I was 5 when I knew that crap wasn't real!
Vungor
Hey mary, three dudes showed up and said they wanna give "MY"? baby gifts? Shes been cheating.
BenderRodriguz1010
Also white jesus?? LOL I was asked not to come back to CCD. "We've taught him all we can".
chickenoodlesoup
https://imgur.com/qaMICRc#qaMICRc
BenderRodriguz1010
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1N2t3MTdseGVtMzVndTkyazh4d2hoNTQ4bTlta3VjMWE5dG1nenV1cyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/XHeLeuirRbwptHhSWd/200w.webp
DragonThunderUndertaking
You mean like money and territories and baseball .. granted one of those things isn't really like the others..
Goldensands
DefaOmega
To be fair some animals do have concepts of territory and being territorial, but otherwise yeah
DragonThunderUndertaking
Well I was thinking more about arbitrary lines on maps but you are technically correct which I'm told is the best kind of correct
DefaOmega
Totally fair I was just being pedantic. Cheers!