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Jul 4, 2026 1:51 AM
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Imjurbro
Copyrights and patents are both pretty silly. At least when they last as long as they do. I guarantee people would still draw pictures and wrote books and code video games even if they couldn’t wield the cudgel of government against anywho tho dares stand in the way of endlessly growing quarterly profits. It also … REALLY … pushes the bounds of logic to think you can “steal” something by creating a copy that in no way deprives anyone else of their copy.
physicsdoc
If you literally still have it, then technically, I didn't steal it.
whereismymind86
i spent a few hours today setting up a dolphin again. Good times.
Imadethisaccounttopost
My hatred of the "All Digital Future" is summed up perfectly with this.
Forza Horizon is on it's 6th game, 4 of the games were on the Xbox One and fully compatible with the current generation consoles.
HOWEVER
You can only buy Forza 5 and 6 online, because Microsoft claims they lost the license to the older games, and can no longer sell them digitally.
(5 will be taken off line in a year or so) Yet I can go to any fucking games hop or eBay and buy 1-4 on disc and still play them to this day.
Imadethisaccounttopost
They missed the entire point of my post.
I've never purchased a Forza Horizon game, and due to licensing issues, only 5 and 6 are available digitally.
If I had purchased any of the games, they'd still be available to me for download, even if they were delisted.
The problem is, if I wanted to and play the older games in the series (I heard 4 was the best) I would have to buy them physically.
FireSolvesProblems
YoWilykat
Been "stealing" for years. I started my career in piracy way back when DVD replaced VHS as the dominant format and Disney refused to release Song of the South.
They still refuse to release the movie. Some pirate somewhere got $20 for a BD version with nice cover in a nice case. $20 that Disney never got. $20 that Disney is not losing.
SwissScars
I spend my time in Penzance...
1stDrunkJoe
So, I am not actually car jacking you. It's just a hostile take over of your lease.
Poestis
Basically every subscription model...
CrazedDrifter
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats" -H.L. Mencken
JaikaShark
That's why physical needs to always be a thing and never go away. I can't argue with this being "wrong" especially if they are trying to push all digital "you will own nothing and be happy" type crap. But people don't understand how this is going to lead to a collapse in everything. A game dev goes to work and makes a game for two reasons: artistic creativity. If they don't make profit, devs don't get paid. If devs don't get paid, they don't make games. Would you work without pay?
JaikaShark
artistic creativity and money to live.*
TyrCarter
This whole thing with people being surprised that sony pulled what it pulled is kinda silly. It's sony, they've been trying to pull dumb shit for ages. Buy on GOG, or steam (though you still don't technically own the thing but Steam is very pro-user).
And the digital five finger discount is for when you want to try before you buy or you ain't giving money to some shitty developer/publisher.
Imadethisaccounttopost
Sony removed over 500 pieces of media (Movies/Shows) from digital libraries.
Amazon and other retailers have been doing this for years.
However, if you had downloaded the media, you can still use it as long as the file and where it is stored is still viable.
Apparently that's not the same with Sony, when the license is revoked you can't even watch your download media.
This is why we need more consumer protection and things like "Stop Killing Games."
OriginalSyn
Sharing is caring
blueipDriver
FreePalestineAndTheWorldFromIsrael
MidnaDS
Did anyone ever claim that piracy is stealing/theft? I only ever hear that in this slogan and nowhere else.
I guess 'Embezzlement' doesn't quite roll off the tongue as nicely.
mirrorz
I think Louis Rossman said that the other day.
hushpuppyextraordinaire
Your renting somewhat long term
DerpyBestPrincess
ObjectivePragmatistWithHope
lildude52ca
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP i just payed $90 for a game and was banned within 15 minutes for something i didnt do before i even owned the game.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
Yes, the model sucks, but this isn't even close to accurate.
When you buy a ticket to watch a movie in theatres, you aren't buying the movie. This is the model that companies are moving everything towards.
As I said, it sucks, and I want to own my games/movies/music, etc, not just buy the right to use them until the company decides otherwise. And, if I am buying a limited use license, I certainly am not going to pay the full price for it.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
@NR97420 thanks for posting a question then blocking me so that I couldn't respond.
Very few digital purchases (or media purchases that came with an unlock code or required Internet access) come with irrevocable licenses. That's just fact.
My point was that buying a revocable license does not mean you own the product. You are buying the right to use it under the company's conditions. It sucks, I hate it, but that is the way it is. Please direct your anger and whataboutism somewhere else.
NR97420
Cool. Now what about the people who *didn't* buy "limited use licenses" who are now losing their old purchases? Music and gaming and movies.
DerpyBestPrincess
You have never owned anything digital, ever. It was literally one of the first laws about digital media that was set in place, that digital media can never be owned, only licensed. Some places, they would come to your door and demand you hand over tapes and CDs even when they had issues with licenses.
SinStar87
I'm certain they did as this has been happening far longer than internet and digital download. make a copy of 'your' game in the 90s and get caught and you're in trouble for pirating because you were always buying a limited use license. Only difference is now they've decided they don't have to maintain a functional digital copy for you to use after shifting everything to digital. similar to damaged disks for out of print media.
TheZerax
I think the usual argument is that they DID buy limited use licenses, if you look buried in the license agreements. But that's also some absolute bullshit because they were sold to users as "purchases" not "renting" and then hiding it in the legalese is total bs.
UNHchabo
I've taken to the mindset that any company who doesn't deserve my money doesn't deserve my time either.
Why pirate Disney or Sony's latest bullshit when you could find good creators who deserve your time AND your money?
manixaist
SynapticHarmony
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ajlrbWo2bGh1NXV3eDczbG0yZW1jbndtdHdjMDZpcGhzM3l5YTMxNyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/dX1iTuEIj4yfwHDUCy/200w.webp
manixaist
A bit late to the party but I love it
4Astaroth
That's the flag of Calico Jack Rackham. Very cool. Here is the flag of Stede Bonnet.
FreePalestineAndTheWorldFromIsrael
Fuck Sony, fuck Microsoft, fuck Nintendo, fuck Valve, fuck Rockstar, fuck them all.
Resistance1000
ExplodingPortaPotty
I mean "piracy" has never at any point been stealing. Nor can it ever BE stealing. Software piracy in legal terms is actually copyright infringement.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
What I don't get is, couldn't the same be said of AI scraping the internet for data? Imgur is anti-AI "stealing" data, but is pro-imgurians pirating. I'm against AI doing it too, but I'd like to hear a logical argument for why it's stealing when AI does it, but not stealing when imgurians do it.
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
The difference is using it for profit. Even if it gets remixed, they're still using others work (and IP)
DrKonrad
Piracy is the poor stealing from the rich (big cinema studios, music labels, etc.).
AI is the rich (Antropic, Amazon, Microsoft...) stealing from the poor (artists, painters, authors...).
They are not the same.
ninjafartball
But as @ExplodingPortaPotty (lol) pointed out there is a legal distinction between Stealing and Copyright infringement. They are not the same either.
tallroses
A consumer is not generating content based on another creator’s IP or distributing it for profit. That’s our issue with AI.
Most people just pirate things for their own personal consumption.
EstoyPoopis
When you pirate a game, you enjoy it, you consume it, the buck stops there.
When AI does it, some techbros get incredibly wealthy off of it, constantly, continuously, and the buck never stops.
That's the biggest difference *I* see.
ninjafartball
It's infringement because shitstain mutherfuckers at ADOBE sell ai art as copyrighted on their site. There is no difference, is my answer to you. The only difference is when you take that product and make money with it.
emu314159127001
Oh, it has been, and it absolutely IS.
RuminatingYak
Neither is stealing. Information should be free. The difference is in how that information is used. AI companies are using it to fuck over everybody else.
CliffWestern
Same reason just stated. The AI's are using the material to make copyrighted material. Listening to a song is very different from me creating a YouTube video and putting the song in without permission and then distributing that video.
Terran81
It’s copyright when AI does it. It’s intellectual property being “copied”. Stealing would be me taking the actual original painting. It actually is less honest to call it stealing because copyright, you are taking credit for someone else’s work without compensating them for it or giving credit. It’s far more damaging because that’s someone’s livelihood. It’s hard to put a price on that when it comes to what AI does. Seeing someone’s art style could lead to more sales of their other works.
ninjafartball
This is exactly what adobe does on their image website https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=runner+art&asset_id=2072148168
Terran81
Piracy in the other hand… the people who did the work have already been paid. It arguably would only hurt the companies profit margin. The way things are, I’d only care if it’s an independent studio as they could go out of business and that would hurt the employees. Big corporations do lay off all the time these days. Way I see it? They’re bringing this on themselves.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I work in software dev, that's not how it goes. If our product makes its sales numbers for the year, we get a big bonus. If it exceeds, we get an even bigger bonus, relative to how much the product exceeded the target. If it misses the target, we get small or zero bonus, no raises that year, and people get laid off. Our sales numbers matter massively to every developer working there. This is the second large tech company I've worked for, and this is typical. Pirating instead of buying hurts /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
the employees the most. The execs will be fine; if it does really badly they just leave with their golden parachute and move to a different company. Usually with a raise. /2
amatte
you didn't buy the digital deluxe edition and didn't read and agree to the terms of service
whereismymind86
tos aren't legally binding, this has been proven repeatedly
Furyustyles
So when Blizzard was banning gold sellers it wasn't legal?
You're also conflating TOS and EULA which aren't the same thing.
Peden1
I own all my CDs and cassettes thankfully
DerpyBestPrincess
You have never owned anything digital, ever. It was literally one of the first laws about digital media that was set in place, that digital media can never be owned, only licensed. Some places, they would come to your door and demand you hand over tapes and CDs even when they had issues with licenses.
DerpyBestPrincess
Not sure why I'm being downvoted for stating a simple fact. Facts are facts, whether you like them or not.
whereismymind86
cause it's wrong mostly
DerpyBestPrincess
Go ahead. Show me exactly where I'm wrong.
Furyustyles
Ubisoft killing off The Crew.
https://racinggames.gg/article/ubisoft-killing-the-crew-sets-a-dangerous-precedent-for-game-preservation
TlsGrz
That‘s not how this works. You made the claim (repeatedly, on basically every reply to this post). What is this „one of the first laws on digital media“ you talk about? Where has anyone gone to someone’s house and collected their physical belongings? You made the claim, you back it up.
whereismymind86
yeah that's just fearmongering bullshit. Eula's aren't worth a goddamn thing in court. This has been tested multiple times. If you buy something, you own it, full stop.
Furyustyles
Except for all those Super Smash Bro tournaments Nintendo have had shut down for illegally broadcasting their IP in public even when the organizers have owned copies of the game.
DerpyBestPrincess
Not sure what planet you're living on. Correct, this has been tried in court many times. And every time it's ruled YOU DO NOT OWN DIGITAL MEDIA. There IS AN ENTIRE CHANNEL RUN BY AN ATTOURNEY THAT COVERS EXACTLY THIS. https://www.youtube.com/@lawfulmasses
Peden1
I wasn't aware of that, thank you for sharing. I'll have to research that more for my own ignorance. Is it safe to say that my 500 plus CDs and 200 plus cassettes are safe from the federal government today?
whereismymind86
that's because it's not true, but it is widely believed, because it's in most eula's and tos agreements (which are not remotely enforceable)
Peden1
I figured as much, thanks for the information.
DerpyBestPrincess
Sure. You still don't technically own them. All my games are safe too, despite I don't technically own them. Every single one cracked.
Peden1
Oh right on. Semantics at this point IMO. I don't technically own the media itself, but I possess the physical media and can play it at my will. (I understand CDs aren't physical granted)
Goldensands
Until they Inevitably stop working, which may not be very long from now. The only true solution to long term media storage is collective sharing, aka piracy.
RuminatingYak
Yes, thank you. People are being ridiculous about physical media. It's a useless middleman that still makes you dependent on giant corporations.
TheRealNotSparta
As least here in the States, you have the full legal right to make copies of any physical media you own so long as it is done for archival purposes or format transition.
Probably part of why they're trying to get rid of physical media...
Peden1
Why would my cd player stop playing CDs?
wanjeonhanwalwal
CD players can break down. It happened to me. I had a CD player that started showing signs of age at about 7 years? Then at about 14 years it started to steadily get worse. At 19 years old it was pretty much unusable, the buttons wouldn't do what they were labeled, they'd do any random one of the various button commands, and the.power button stopped being reliable, and it couldn't make its way through even a CD with 4 tracks.
JustAName00
All physical media has a shelf life. It's a big issue for archivists, like those at the Library of Congress.
Peden1
Entropy is a hell of a drug, well said
spoonTRex
Disc rot. It’s a real thing
whereismymind86
no it's not
manixaist
It is though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
Peden1
Oh absolutely, my apologies. That is the main reason I'm putting them all on an external drive. Good point
bippityboppitybuttsex
I heard someone say, 'you are buying a revocable license'...
Kliamovich
So... Renting for an indeterminable amount of time?
nobletrex
Until it becomes unprofitable to fulfill their end of the agreement.
agonarch
Oh no it can still be profitable- it just has to have the whiff of potentially -more- profit in revoking it (codemasters car games- wanna play with friends? Too bad, they can't buy the one you have, you'll both have to buy whatever the new one is, and that's assuming you can even still play the one you have at all).
LicensedAdHominem
The problem is the stores openly call themselves "game stores" etc. and not "revocable license stores".
They say they're selling games. No one should give a shit what's in the small print when it directly and egregiously contradicts big print.
Actually, brb, opening an online TV store with "actually we just send jpegs of TVs" in size 1 font somewhere within 3.7 MB terms of service.
mayoradamwest12
i2ocker89
Heard someone say what Sony did is equivalent to someone walking into your house, going in your living room and stealing 550 blurays off your shelf. Its actual theft
livingonagiantfireball
Isent that what steam is?
Cilvaa
If it's revocable, you're not buying it, you're renting it
Imjurbro
Which, really is hard to fathom as being a legitimate contract. Contracts require what we call consideration - meaning both sides have to give something. Anything works, a dollar for a flat of gold bars works, but it has to be both sides contracting something away. So “I’ll give you a dollar for them, or not, with the ability to take my dollar back whenever I want” … not “consideration.”
Imjurbro
It’s not even really renting. Imagine getting a rental car at the airport and having Herz be able to just turn it off whenever they feel like. I wouldn’t call that renting.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yep
JustAName00
I record all of my favorite stuff to my hard drive and have built my own self hosted media server using Jellyfin and Kodi. I own the content, can stream it any time I want in perpetuity, and haven't broken any criminal laws since I'm not distributing the content to anybody but myself. Go ahead and remove the content. I already have what I want.
CaptainFubs
Hey bro. Wanna break the law and share it lol.
comeonjointhejoyride
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ODA0bng1aXJhczZtODRjeXZ2NGtlejhyZmFldHhicDd0YW9wNzFhaCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/mcqDpp3eAbWXJ5l3EG/200w.webp
DerpyBestPrincess
And that is what you are doing. You have never owned anything digital, ever. Technically they always could come and demand you hand over your tapes and CDs. And in some places, they actually did.
idiotsonfire
Hey, how does Tim Cook's microcock taste?
DerpyBestPrincess
Wouldn't know. Don't own a single Apple product.
hogeyegrex
You’re quite wrong about that. Certainly, back in the 80s, when I bought a CD, there was no Eula or terms of service. It was the same as buying a book. I even had every right to make copies for personal use. If I wanted to make a mix tape to listen to in the car, perfectly legal. The effective license purchased was in no way revocable. Pretty sure that’s still the case with hard copy purchases. While the DMCA screwed a lot up, it didn’t change that. Cite a decent source and I might believe you.
hogeyegrex
Otherwise, just stop with that.
kaneinencanto
Citation(s) needed for when any company was able to go to individuals and demand their tapes and CDs and got them.
Goldensands
No1 fking cares about that filth you corpowhoring apologist.
DerpyBestPrincess
Fucking snowflakes, I swear. And that's saying something, coming from a brony. "HURRRDURR, I DON'T LIKE FACTS, HURRDURR"
DerpyBestPrincess
I have a massive library of piracy. I'm simply stating what the law is, you moron. You people sound more like MAGA every day, refusing to acknowledge facts because it "hurts mah feelings"
Goldensands
No. One. Cares. About your filthy fking statements. Go die in a ditch, corpowhore. With the MAGA morons and drumpf, you deserve each other.
DerpyBestPrincess
Enjoy your ban. Facts are fact, despite what your ittybitty tinywiny butthurt feelings says.
DerpyBestPrincess
I left email in on purpose so you can mail me angrily when you're banned.
DerpyBestPrincess
Not sure why I'm being downvoted for stating a simple fact. Facts are facts, whether you like them or not.
hogeyegrex
Probably because it’s not a fact, and you haven’t offered any citations to prove that it is. There has never been a law that says a record company can come and take hard copy music you’ve purchased away from you. Prove me wrong.
idiotsonfire
Because you're frankly fucking stupid. And now you're crying about it.
Furyustyles
They're stupid but you're the one not understanding facts because they're hurting your feelings. Which one of Trump's sons are you?
DerpyBestPrincess
Stupid for stating simple facts? Enjoy your ban for harassment btw.
manixaist
I hope you smacked them
BeaverOnFire
Or at least gave them a wet willy.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I would, but they were an attorney and is big on reading the TOS and contracts people sign without looking at when people buy stuf.
brownribbon
Why? It’s accurate.
LeMegachonk
I mean, they're telling the truth. You have never owned a piece of software you didn't create yourself, you only had a license to use it. And not only are you buying a revocable license, you are often buying a revocable license specific to a specific platform. For example, when you buy a Steam game, you typically only purchase a license to play the game via Steam. If Steam were to de-list the game, your license to play the game is revoked even if the game is still available elsewhere.
UNHchabo
In practice, Steam still allows me to play any game I've bought on their platform that has been de-listed.
There may be counterexamples where games have been pulled completely from the platform, but I haven't encountered any myself.
Some games that I bought on Steam and still own despite being delisted: Burnout Paradise, NFS Hot Pursuit 2010, NFS Shift, Blur, Age of Empires II 2013, Beyond Good and Evil, Spec Ops The Line, and the GTA 3 trilogy.
ForlornHopeful
The Crew is probably the Ur example, https://www.engadget.com/ubisoft-is-deleting-the-crew-from-players-libraries-reminding-us-we-own-nothing-165328083.html?_fsig=vzRNSxbn3AdxizTWIZSUng--%7EA
UNHchabo
Was it ever on Steam? That article only mentions Ubisoft Connect.
manixaist
That's not true because I have bought to own quite a lot of software I didn't write. It's only been an option for these greedy cocksuckers since they made everything connected to the internet whether it needs it or not to run. My old software came on cartridges and floppies, then CDs, then DVDs and there was no way for them to be 'revoked'.
LeMegachonk
You still, from a legal sense, only had a limited and revocable license, even if there was no practical way to easily revoke it. The software did not at any point actually belong to you. It still belongs to its copyright holder. That said, you aren't fundamentally wrong in principle. It's wrong for a license to be revoked for any reason besides non-compliance with the terms of the underlying contractual agreement and it shouldn't be legal.
EverNotRelevant
Why? It's accurate, legally speaking. Don't shoot the messenger.
elucca
Not necessarily. The things they claim in the EULA are not legal in many (or necessarily any) countries.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, the EULA and TOS are contracts agreed to. Why do you think they are illegal?
Esp since their terms have been upheld in courts, repeatedly.
elucca
They can't overrule laws. For example, the terms for the sale of a product could say there's no warranty, but it doesn't matter if the law mandates a warranty. Which terms hold up in court will depend on what exactly they claim and what country you're in. Something like "by playing this game you agree to never sue us for any reason" probably wouldn't fly in most places, for example.
myeyesthegogglesdonothing
Legality wasn't the discussion. It IS a revocable license that probably IS illegal in places.