Sigeram
243262
12251
1018
Popped up on my feed. Enjoy.
Mar 15, 2017 6:46 AM
Sigeram
243262
12251
1018
Popped up on my feed. Enjoy.
controlyourmuffin
Not that many.
AbuseTheElderly
"Dude was found high on THC" I highly doubt a dude that had just smoked some pot went on a murderous rampage.
scruffyfan
The "dab" dance that you see people do is in reference to doing Pure THC, much stronger than weed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_oil
Nordalin
The relevant wikipage talks about Xanax, psychedelic mushrooms, and THC. It makes one wonder how accurate that guy is in general...
AbuseTheElderly
My point is thc is all he mentioned, like "well, we can stop at thc cause that means he's a crazy crackhead."
MerToo
pretty sure if you took Xanax, mushrooms and cannabis simultaneously you would be an excellent candidate for serotonin syndrome at least
STINKPICKEL
Well it coulda been they told him to drop a weapon and he was so stoned he forgot what they told him, the second they finished talking.
AbuseTheElderly
It wouldn't have been from the THC. Other drugs were involved but he pointed to THC like it was the worst one.
STINKPICKEL
True, most dangerous thing I've ever seen a pothead do is forget they had something in the over or microwave, and burn it.
CaptainFubs
Yeah seeing that actually kinda made laugh then get slowly pissed off
AbuseTheElderly
Exactly, but he lost all credibility there. Skimmed over the rest.
cunninlinguist
2014, Pearlie Golden, 93 - Shot by Police when discharging firearm in anger when her son took her drivers license that had been revoked.
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
In don't understand your reasoning in posting this
cunninlinguist
ahh not sure whether to circlejerk with me or against me? - no reasoning, just found it exceptional
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
Fair enough
Rogahar
She retrieved the gun after arguing with her nephew. He called the police out of fear for her already diminished mental state coupled with >
Rogahar
> her anger at the situation. The officer ordered her to drop the gun, instead she fired it at the ground. The officer shot her 4-5 times >
Rogahar
> killing her in the process. He was later terminated from his position, although the shooting itself was considered justified in the >
Rogahar
> circumstances as she was a danger to herself and others around her. Whether or not he actually intended to kill her or just >
Rogahar
> disable her is uncertain (although 4-5 shots certainly leans in favour of killing), and it wasn't his first fatal shooting whilst >
Suravik
Thanks, I was wondering about what a 93 year old was doing on the list.
CaptainObvious3000
I saw people added the Ohio State terrorist to the "people of color killed by police" list. It's like some of them don't even try
WhosJoe
I also saw that. Good observing of things!
xiafang
hey captain obvious: they were a person of color, killed by the police.
CaptainObvious3000
Those lists are supposed to be for people of color wrongly killed by police. Adding a terrorist to the list won't make folks like your cause
gablestout
Don't forget the 4 Muslims killed by white Christians in a field in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. It's like a 21st century lynch mob!
CaptainObvious3000
Yeah that was no good either!
OrionRed
The guy with the knife that drove into a crowd?
CaptainObvious3000
Yeah that guy. Apparently he's worth defending lol
OrionRed
Yeah, fuck that guy. This happened about five miles from my house. He was in the school paper as a success story. He lost it because...
OrionRed
of how "the US treats Muslims."
CaptainObvious3000
Well nothing shows you're not violent better than being violent because people label you as violent
takhat
I remember there was a protest over police shooting a guy(who was hopped up on something, tazer did nothing). Woman brought her baby in /1
takhat
cold and didn't pay attention to it... Baby died on scene, after an officer tried to resucitate it.
mfb0
We shouldn't forget the terrorists killed by the WTC.
killerdecoy7
I thought they were just visiting the towers all peaceful like and the buildings got in their way. That's what the left would have you think
CaptainObvious3000
Lol the mental gymnastics people go through to push their narrative nowadays is crazy. Wouldn't be surprised if some people thought this way
Illthinkofausernamelater
He dint do nufin.
getmo
It's amazing what you can make the facts say once you've already decided what story you're going to tell!
cameraman502
I remember when Bloomberg's anti-gun group added one of Boston Bombers to the "victims of gun violence" list
CaptainObvious3000
Lol way to get no one to support your cause
Ironbunny
he didnt need support, they just forced the bill through i think literally overnight and instantly created criminals.
Ironbunny
I assume lots of people on that list were justifiably shot.
Mushroombadger
Those people will add anyone regardless of context.
HalloIamherenow
Because if you're a minority you can do no wrong right? You shouldn't be shot if you are literally killing innocents in the moment right?
dovebair
In it's way, it is important to look at the numbers, even if they are Justified homicide. Why is there such an issue with POC?
CaptainObvious3000
Honestly I feel like a lot of that probably has to do with bias which sucks. Cops see a lot of shit though I get why they're on edge
rrlyrae
1st is wrong. victim did not walk "into traffic." 1st result on google (atlanta news) says cop was flying down road at night w/sirens off.
rrlyrae
#2-guy only had a broom & cops knew he was mentally ill. cop screaming "drop or i'll shoot" does not justify shooting.
rrlyrae
#4-actually justified-murder suspect did in fact shoot at cops.
rrlyrae
#6-one cop tried using "non-lethal" weapon but others fired guns simultaneously. one of them had prior history of impulsive shooting.
rrlyrae
#5-cops 1st said he died when his car hit a tree, then changed story to "i feared for my life." no witnesses other than the cop.
rrlyrae
#3-jailers were indicted for being "criminally indifferent" & excessive pepper spray found to be contributor to his death.
KimchiQueen
For people on mobile:
NocturneofLaconice
Yeah, I'm gonna reply to your comment so I can look at it on my computer later.
TwoYoots
High on THC, attacking people, and throwing cops into walls. That sounds like some pretty good weed.
mfizz1e
There is a website dedicated to tracking deaths where police were involved. For all races. With details. I can find it if interested
miscohi
"found high on THC" and attacked someone. Fuck you
maximuminnovationstevejobs
As soon as I see that I can already tell this was written by a middle aged man wearing jorts and tennis shoes.
miscohi
same. fuck this is so stupid lmao
anddylanrew
That's a lot of people who tried to take a cops gun. Sounds suspicious.
Pangs
Default endangered cop scenario when the suspect doesn't have his own weapon.
kbellx9
Having a few militant black friends, every time I saw "reached for officer's gun" I could hear them say "bull-fucking-shit"
OnSnowWhiteWings
Don't show them the list of hispanic, white and virtually every other race killed by cops, accidental, justified or not.
AdultArtMarmar
Guy asking "where is the rest of the list." without just doing the reasearch themselves - every group assignmets has one of those
novusprime
shouldve just told him to fuck off and look for himself at that point.
GodEmperor0fMankind
I've done that here. It doesn't usually go over well.
fathersisterberzerker
Every group assignment has 3 of those.
Saldus
You mean the majority of everyone who listens to anything they see reposted on the internet? No one does research in media bias.
Benji9563
Wasn't even trying to refute anything, they just wanted to sit around watching Spongebob reruns whilst the other one did all the work
rockamoley
I'm sure the list for *insert color here* people killed by police is just as long.
obligatoryguy
Fucking lazy bastards.
dirtbikerdan
Next step in their argument is to fabricate data to back a false claim.
GodEmperor0fMankind
It's like the people on imgur who demand sources instead of doing the fucking research on their own.
RoombaTheAssaultVacuum
Also notice once he asked that question and got an answer he was nowhere to be found.
bixby66
I'm wondering where the rest of the 255 black people killed by police in 2015 are on the list itself.
alpinej0e
This is what I find is the problem with most people with a steadfast view. "Change my mind, with evidence which I deem to be acceptable".
SuckMyFartsJizzTeeth
On this point I think I would love to see a list of white people killed vs black people by police those figures on population quota.
SuckMyFartsJizzTeeth
You cant those as some states dont have that info, which is odd.
heffasaurusrex
There's a reason argumentation and logic isn't taught in schools anymore and it isn't to make us smarter.
Letdafunbegin6
Are u sure it's not, cause I took into to logic just a few years ago lol.
heffasaurusrex
If you make a challenging assertion the burden of proof rests on the one making the challenge. Basic logic for argumentation.
GodEmperor0fMankind
I would argue that the first ten was his proof. The point (I think) he was trying to make was that the list isn't black and white.
IamNotaBlackMan
"Basic" being the keyword here.
Killrapture
Isn't that a fallacy? Or is that when the burden is on the party being challenged
GodEmperor0fMankind
But then, that's what's wrong with the world. Nobody wants to do the work themselves. They want other people to do it so they can reap the
GodEmperor0fMankind
benefits.
GodEmperor0fMankind
I know that when I see stuff like that, I want to do the research myself rather than taking anybody's word at face value so I know for sure
GodEmperor0fMankind
After that, if the commenter was genuinely curious, (s)he should have done the further research him/herself.
shackattacktime
This has me interested. When a politician makes a bold claim, do they have to prove they're right or do others need to prove them wrong?
DynamicWeight
What can be stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
heffasaurusrex
Hitchen's razor is an axiom not an argument. The presence of common knowledge renders it self-contradictory.
heffasaurusrex
Their claim is their argument. They are required to prove it. However, as seen with current politics, populism negates their need for proof.
[deleted]
[deleted]
heffasaurusrex
an amusing joke from a character who couldn't even bother to spell Demosthenes right.
SquidJesus
It's the same on imgur. Opinions and facts don't matter, so long as one side has more points.
SecondSince
Also #AlternativeFacts. DX
tyronetyrone
Then the OP should have cited each case. (Or at least done so if asked)
heffasaurusrex
The original poster merely posted a list of facts. Their argument was that there is a number of black people killed by police which (1/2)
heffasaurusrex
The list of black people killed by police substantiates. He didn't claim anything else. (2/2)
heffasaurusrex
Furthermore, the respondent does not source his claims or provide a source his claims can be verified against which is shoddy argumentation.
thezale19
Yet we all have google
heffasaurusrex
You miss the point. if YOU make an explicit claim YOU are responsible for backing it up.
windrapier
The way each of the points are underlined indicate that in the Tumblr post, they used hypertext to link sources. We just have the screenshot
heffasaurusrex
Thanks for that. Never used Tumblr and thought it was just an emphasis from the user.
tyronetyrone
We both know the implication of the post. It's not just a list of black people. And he didn't cite sources either so,..
heffasaurusrex
There is no source listed. That being said I'd call most of those deaths common knowledge. As for the implication, that's on the reader.
OmNachoMama
Somehow, I don't think these folks are versed in argumentation. Source: it's Tumblr.
heffasaurusrex
While that is true, Aristotle had the right of it. Everyone should be versed in argumentation.
CitizenDickbag
The problem with this is that the descriptions are taken from the police reports. In many cases, those facts are in dispute. "He tried to
Dythi
This is the problem. They said Bryce Masters was high and resisted arrest. Go watch the video and say that's the full story.
weedtittiesandkitties
Nearly none of these reports are of homicide suspects. These are not crimes punishable by capital punishment
EarthAnimalArmy
why do you think homicide needs to be involved first? you stupid, just dumb? half of those were dumbshits pulling guns on cops, end of game
weedtittiesandkitties
So you're saying the problem is guns? So you should advocate for not selling guns to the public.
LuigiVampa
In many of the cases it's not that the killing is justified for crimes committed, rather it's for the officer's life in danger.
weedtittiesandkitties
If your only response to being in danger is to shoot someone, you shouldn't be in law enforcement
LuigiVampa
I didn't say just "in danger." I said "life in danger" there's a huge distinction. If I walk around with an uzi in a mall my capacity (1
LuigiVampa
to massacre about a hundred people almost instantaneously, validates taking action involving incapacitating, possibly deadly, force. (2)
LuigiVampa
Also whether or not someone who commits first degree murder is sentenced to capital punishment depends on the state.
Illthinkofausernamelater
Self defense is different than execution. How would you respond in these situations?
weedtittiesandkitties
not shoot them
aageek33
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g Easy to say in the abstract. Tougher when facing simulated, let alone real-world, situations.
weedtittiesandkitties
that video is a joke
Illthinkofausernamelater
I someone tried to run you over with their car and you had a gun on you, you for sure wouldn't fire?
Elroydb
Or in the case of drugs shouldn't really be a reason for a law enforcement response
Mountaineer30680
If it's just drug use/commerce, agreed.
Elroydb
Yeah. The case with the prison release on drugs assaulting his grandfather - stuff like that is 100% a law enforcement call
Mountaineer30680
Agreed, just not a simple cash-for-drugs transaction.
EarthAnimalArmy
seriously? crack, heroin, meth, lsd, get fucking real, those are nearly as deadly as a pissed of cop
irish1100
But police action does nothing to stop it and only causes more anguish. Also LSD is very different from heroin, crack and meth lol
Mountaineer30680
Heroin isn't any different than most opiate pain meds. LSD isn't deadly, and until the 50's or 60's, houswives took meth regularly.
weedtittiesandkitties
LSD isn't deadly
CitizenDickbag
2/ "grab my gun" is a pretty easy lie to make up to justify a shooting.
PhiIIipJFry
It's pretty difficult to grab a gun from a holster too, presumably if there's 2 cops and 1 perp they can deal with that non-lethally.
CitizenDickbag
Many if not most holsters have mechanisms to prevent someone other than the owner from drawing them, too.
garbagepail
Thank you, I was about to say the same thing. What police report would say that an officer unjustly murdered a civilian?
UncivilizedEngie
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that police also don't want to murder civilians.
CallsignBacon
even so that still only like 10% of the list
CitizenDickbag
That's still a disturbing number of times. Police do in fact kill unarmed and innocent people every year. Many of them. Rarely do such cases
CitizenDickbag
2/ end in any form of punishment, because the system is geared to protect cops and is simply stacked against civilians.
teestira
Plus it does happen. Ferguson is an example of that
tardismisunderstood
No no no Mike Brown was a good boy and difn do nuffin.
CitizenDickbag
Example of what? Michael Brown didn't try to grab the officer's gun, the officer acknowledged that in his sworn deposition. He shot Brown
CitizenDickbag
2/ because a physical altercation ensued when he tried to restrain Brown, and then he felt Brown was poised to physically attack him.
teestira
3 different forensics confirmed that he did. There was gun powder found on his hands from when the gun shot in the struggle. Google it
CitizenDickbag
Have you actually read Wilson's deposition? He said, under oath, Brown didn't grab for his gun. This is not disputed.
CitizenDickbag
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/us-district-court-document-including-officer-darren-wilsons-list-of-admissions/2371/
rydomac
Do you think investing in police bodycams would be a good idea? I imagine it would be in everyone's best interests if it were affordable.
CitizenDickbag
Definitely, it benefits all parties involved. Keeps cops honest, proves their right when suspects make false claims.
Mountaineer30680
Yes - this would improve relations dramatically, IMO. And IIRC, there are a couple of jurisdictions with cams and evidence backs me up.
YamatoIouko
It's actually becoming law in a LOT of places.
Illthinkofausernamelater
There are quite a few cases where footage has been edited by "news" outlets so they could sell sensational articles though.
CitizenDickbag
Who cares, the main point is that the full footage will be seen by police review boards, DAs, juries, etc. A greater concern is when the
CitizenDickbag
2/ cops conveniently turn off their body cams right before bad shit goes down. That has happened in more than a few cases.
Illthinkofausernamelater
Mob mentality is very destructive. Proven innocent in courts doesn't stop the death threats.
teestira
Every case is reviewed and gone over multiple times they don't just use what the policeman says, forensics usually can confirm or deny a lot
CitizenDickbag
Also, many times the only testimony and evidence is the word of a single officer. The victim is dead, no witnesses, no camera footage. Hard
CitizenDickbag
2/ to say those are all going to have happened exactly as the cop says, who has a vested interest in making sure the incident is portrayed
CitizenDickbag
3/ as favorably to him as possible.
Irishda
How does forensics determine if a gun is in a holster or not before someone reaches out to grab it?
CitizenDickbag
Most cases are reviewed internally and then by DAs who tend to have cozy r/ships with police departments. There is a long history of cops
CitizenDickbag
2/ not being charged when the evidence is pretty clear to a reasonable person they used excessive force.
SJohnson23
Hahhahahahahahhahahaha! Hahahhahahahhaha! Oh, thanks, I needed that.
aevansk1177
Fuck you that's my brother and father out there putting their life's on the line for assholes like you who think that they're just murders
SJohnson23
Not just murderers - they also use asset seizure laws to be legal thieves.
Eajry
Condescending as fuck?
KrytenKoro
Not wrong tho. Many Police have admitted to misreporting things on the stand when confronted.
torillatavataan
You do realise that these are official statements by the other party, right? There's never going to be a "just because I could" in there.
HelloHiImTom
"I don't like Monday's" - Brenda Spencer.
filthystink
BodyCam footage or GTFO
CyborgScribe
Cops all need these.
mechanicalchaos
https://media.makeameme.org/created/sprinkle-some-crack.jpg
torillatavataan
Probably every single one of these is justified. But an unjustified one would look exactly like the other "tried to grab officer's gun"s.
Delta9399
Officers are actually trained to incapacitate the suspect in the event the suspect tries to take the officers taser. The reason being (1)
EarthAnimalArmy
the training i received, grab my baton, have it while i pull tazer, grab my tazer, have it, while i pull my pistol, try to grab it, dare ya
Delta9399
Yeah I had the same training. Although I never trained to carry a baton. We just beat the shit out of each other with 'em.
residentolive
Another commenter posted that 4 people shot for not getting down were legally deaf and could not hear the instructions. Don't know which tho
Delta9399
That if the suspect obtains and successfully deploys the taser that the officer will be incapacitated for at least five seconds.
cvnk
Haha rekt
FuckTammy
Like the case of Walter Scott. If the film didn't exist of the cop shooting him in the back, what would the report say?
squip
Well, him being shot in the back would be a highly suspect situation even without the video.
FuckTammy
The first trial ended in a hung jury with the video. So I can't imagine it would have gone very differently without it.
squip
I wasn't aware of that. I don't have a lot of faith in the justice system when it comes to internal matters (e.g. a police shooting).
SJohnson23
The cop made an official report that the victim grabbed his taser and he felt threatened. No video and this would be another "rekt!!!!!"
Sprixxen
Ya. This is why there's such a huge disconnect between the people who trust the police and those who don't. It's sad.
GrundleFondler
But even if some of them are kinda biased, you can't easily fake most of these- like the ones with the suspect shooting at them
AndyBiz10
lol yes you can, unless video and audio shows otherwise, the officers word is all that counts.
svga
I imagine if there is a shooting there is more than just the officer's whore asked. Witnesses are questioned as well, doors are knocked too
AndyBiz10
The officers report is just that his word, in many cases we wouldn't know what actually happened unless video footage is shown.
YamatoIouko
...that and the coroner's report. But, you know. Not like entry wounds, weapon velocities and muzzle burn mean anything.
Skiwee
SO then not only is it systematic racism but a massive conspiracy to make sure that the correct information is not being seen by the public?
Oddfish
Yes. Fucking yes. Why does this question come off as sounding sarcastic? That is exactly how the justice department has treated black people
Oddfish
For, essentially, the entirety of American history. All the fucking white boys on this website so eager to rewrite the narrative. Holy fuck.
spectheintro
officers to respond based on what they perceive. So even if the suspect never reached, if the cop thought he/she did, no problem. (3/3)
spectheintro
contradicted the officer's assertion, yet the officer is still cleared of wrongdoing because the victim is dead and the law allows (2/3)
spectheintro
To add on to this, many of these are "reached for officer's gun." There have been several cases where video footage has directly (1/3)
SjorsM
No massive conspiracy. If the cop is alone he can report whatever he wants. Is it a conspiracy if it's just one guy lying?
Skiwee
But more to the point, why assume that the cops word is not the truth when there are so few cases that show it to be otherwise?
SjorsM
I'm not assuming they're lying. I'm just assuming they're not always telling the truth, just a bit of skepticism.
LepidoliteMica
Maybe not always, but if you're trying to call this an epidemic at least a majority would have to be lying.
YamatoIouko
Yes, because you still have coroner's reports. So either coroners have to lie, or they tell the truth and out the cop.
SjorsM
Can a coroner see why someone was shot?
YamatoIouko
No, but they can determine pretty well distance and trajectory. Which are majorly informed by cause.
Skiwee
Well that would have been the point, if all cops are doing this, or even can do this, it has the potential to be as such.
Candyman216
Why are you assuming that this is race based? Perhaps this is an issue of excessive force and not just a universal unspoken race hate
Skiwee
Because of the context of this post being specifically about race. Those are names of black people killed. 'Black' makes this about race.
szepasszony
Conspiracy or no, white supremacists have infiltrated law enforcement enough that the FBI has an ongoing investigation into it.
Skiwee
That has got to be good reading. Can I have the source on that investigation?
szepasszony
2fact that the KKK maintained power and control by infiltrating law enforcement, that's how things like 'sundown towns' were enforced.
Skiwee
It very well might be but I do not familiarize myself too much with the history of white supremacists so I am sure there is much to learn.
szepasszony
http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/02/10/recently-uncovered-fbi-report-reveals-long-history-white-supremacists-infiltrating-law-enforcement/
szepasszony
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement/
szepasszony
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/
szepasszony
But here are a few samples you get when you google 'fbi white supremacy in law enforcement':
Skiwee
Perfect thanks man. This is the stuff the CIA should be looking into. This is great. Terrible that they have to but interesting.
szepasszony
1The FBI has been investigating white supremacist groups since the first anti-lynching laws were instituted. I figured it was a well known
Synai
Doesn't change the fact that there's a problem with the police and how they handle shitty officers especially when black people are involved
Cptmike
and that doesnt change the fact the regardless of finaincial circumstance there are belligerent individuals out there that police deal with
Synai
Undoubtedly, but I start worrying when that message is used as a means to completely deny the original fact.
cajuninjun
very true, the problem is one side will claim all officers are shitty and racist, and the other will claim all victims had it coming 1/2
cajuninjun
neither side can admit it works both ways, there are some shitty racist cops and some victims deaths are justifiable, but not all.
wollawollawolla
Hold up. I'm happy to defend the actions of individual police officers, they're general top notch chaps, but this list is crazy. In the UK 1
justicecracker
Number of black leaders in the UK: 0
Dimondlight
The U.S. also has more Officers murdered in a year than the UK does in a century.
mallywanders
The US is gun crazy. My sister and her husband need to have multiple gun safes before they every have kids. (Thankfully they had the sense
W92Baj
Or less guns? Just a suggestion
mallywanders
Try suggesting "less guns" in a red state. I dare you.
W92Baj
Or "Edumacation" or "Not sleeping with your sister"
mallywanders
To move from BIL's grandma's house to his parents house when his drug addiction cousin got sent to live with their grandma bc no one else
mallywanders
Was willing to deal with them even after rehab. They were afraid of the cousin stealing, and especially stealing guns.)
tranderas
I lived in my grandfather's house off and on my whole life and only found his gun safe last year. In my own closet.
tranderas
He keeps it locked, with the key in his safety deposit box. If he wants to go hunting he has to go to the bank first.
PunyYuro
UK is a tiny scrap of land tho
GrundleFondler
In 2016, 7 people were killed by police in Germany- and the country has 81 million inhabitants, so you can't use math for your argument
wollawollawolla
If you want, just look at specific cities. London vs New York or LA, for example.
PunyYuro
i understand, but like i said it's not basic math.
CorvusBelli
So? The US has five times the population of the UK, but 200 times the number of civilians killed by police officers.
PunyYuro
it's just more stupid people. It's not basic math
CorvusBelli
Or maybe it's a few different causes, including a police culture that resorts to lethal force far too readily.
PunyYuro
of course. but the size does matter
TheFragnatic
To be fair, the chance of facing an armed assailant in the US is insanely higher than the UK counterpart.
wollawollawolla
in 2016 exactly 5 people were killed by the police. All of them were in situations were police officers would almost certainly have died 2
JohnJacobJingleHeimerSmitt
you do realize we have more people living here right...
CondescendingCunt
Avg annual # of police killings per 100K capita in Sweden: ~1.15．US: ~31.16．Approximately a 2700% greater chance of getting killed by a cop．
idropbananapeelsoutofmycartostoptheredshells
thats just a risk i am willing to take... NOW who's the condescending cunt?
governmentgavemeagun
The USA has a lot higher proportion of people with guns.
esgedi
Different places, different circumstances. Your stabbing rates trump ours.
skschneier
How many of the criminals in the U.K. Have guns?
SociableCyanide
UK had 4,912 (0.007% Population Inv.) firearm related incidents in 2015, while the USA had 414,562 (0.13%of Population Inv.). 17x greater %
skschneier
Thanks. More criminals with guns leads to more police shootings.
SoapyMammaryMasturbation
Two words for you, friend: Gun control.
Scyle
The US population is roughly 4.9x larger than the UK.
CorvusBelli
And yet the amount of people killed by police officers is 200 times greater; approximately 1,000 people per year in the US.
skschneier
The difference here is we have guns, far fewer guns in the U.K., far fewer officers being shot at or drawn down on.
wollawollawolla
or been seriously injured had the assailant continued. Not the same can be said of this list.
WhyTheHellAreUsernamesSoHardToThinkOf
I completely understand what you're saying but, regardless ofa vast knowledge of the end result of these encounters, the bad guys still 1/
WhyTheHellAreUsernamesSoHardToThinkOf
Held a gun up, with horrible trigger discipline, and pointed it at a cop. Put the fucking gun down.... It will literally save your life
YamatoIouko
Hell, just keep your finger off the trigger and you have better odds. Like you said, horrible trigger discipline.
BustyCrustacean
There are far more guns overall in the USA so cops are understandably more nervous and shooty. That said, their training simply doesn't 1/2
BustyCrustacean
Put a priority on de-escalation in the same way.
NasaFakedTheMoon
De-escalating the situation is neutralizing the target to prevent them from hurting the officer or any other individual.
greggor
I thought normal police were not allowed to carry guns in England – only special ops. So why would that be surprising?
SjorsM
Even though they don't have guns in 5 years 0 were killed by guns in the UK compared to 200 in the US. Maybe get rid of the guns?
CondescendingCunt
Avg．annual № of kills by cop (they carry guns) per 100K capita in Sweden: ~1.15．US: ~31.16．~2700% greater chance of getting killed by a cop．
TheyHunger
844% Still outrageous, but not 2700% kinda outrageous
Piornet
I swear to God Imgur has more circle jerks than a gay porn site.
Acmoore456
That must remind you...don't you have somewhere to be?
Bandignomette
That was some cutting wit! Huzzah!
squip
Or, maybe just because you disagree with a post's content doesn't mean it's a circle-jerk?
UltraDoodleX
Um Can I see the list for the other races? Because I'm almost positive black people aren't the only victims
YamatoIouko
Don't you know white privilege protects whites from being victims? Oh, and non-black minorities don't matter. (/s)
szepasszony
Which is why the demands of BLM and other police brutality groups aren't specific to one race.
YamatoIouko
Since WHEN? I'll concede a lot on BLM, but I've NEVER heard their goal being to protect anyone BUT black individuals.
szepasszony
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/#solutionsoverview
szepasszony
These demands have wide-spread appeal, even among ppl who are opposed to BLM (often because they are misinformed about what BLM demands are)
szepasszony
I don't recall when BLM officially announced these demands (link above), but they've been around for a few years:
yetiburglar
sometimes the cops say the perp reached for their gun to justify excessive force
flaccidhope
"Just sprinkle some crack on him and let's get outta here"
Stratego89
There's a reason they wear cameras now, and they can't get away with it anymore. When a cop abuses power on anyone- 49/50 times they'll pay.
teestira
They don't wear cameras now. Some do but do you really think every department can afford a camera for each officer?
CitizenDickbag
Haha no they don't. Even with camera footage, they usually are protected by fellow cops, DAs and judges.
filthystink
Except when it "malfunctions" http://www.npr.org/2014/08/23/342623830/even-police-body-cameras-can-lose-sight-of-the-truth
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[deleted]
VIAI
PLAY STUPID GAMES WIN STUPID PRIZES
CitizenDickbag
He's talking about when they are unarmed and police claim they tried to reach for their guns, too. Common tactic.
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MrRavellon
Yeah, it's hard to make a good decision in under a second and noone wants to die or see his buddy die. When cops don't like someone they/
MrRavellon
/just give him a baton massage.
LegendofShrek
Might want to rethink that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyNoyP5A-Es
MrRavellon
And that is exception to the rule. And should be treated as such.
MidlandRedux
Okay, now that we've debunked a badly researched list, can we get back to the important topic of badly trained cops killing people? . . .
WarpPad
Like that librarian that was fatally shot during a police demonstration on safety cause the cop forgot to unload his gun for the demo.
Candyman216
No, because they don't care that police kill people, they only care that they kill black people. BLM, remember?
szepasszony
You should check out the actual demands of BLM (the same as campaign zero): https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/#solutionsoverview
Candyman216
That's actually laughable. There's an art to negotiation, and this was drawn with crayons in a closed fist.
szepasszony
And where on this 'crayon drawing' does it say that they only care about black people being killed?
Candyman216
Everywhere you see the descriptor "black." Change it to white and imagine the result.
MidlandRedux
The BLM marches with people protesting the killing of whites. It is a decent thing to do and the same corrupt police do it . . .
MidlandRedux
. . . One of the common factors in these racial killings is that they unmask dirty, underfunded, badly led police departments . . .
MidlandRedux
. . . That have been rotting away for years under crooked politicians and penny-pinching governments that ruin cities . . .
MidlandRedux
. . . While selling themselves to corrupt business interests. The killer cops just make more of a splash than day to day abuse . . .
MidlandRedux
. . . I mean, they kill whites, as well, and their protesters don't get on the news until the BLM sides with them to attract reporters.
YamatoIouko
Who TF cares about whites?
SasquatchButterpants
Who TF fuck cares about people. White black whatever they're fucking people
MidlandRedux
Most of us do. If you don't, you're a sociopath. Move to some other country. We have standards here in the United States.
KurtCobainsWhiteSunglasses
Guys i think he might be joking.
YamatoIouko
Shhh. And I'm not joking, I'm acting as a sarcastic strawman. X3
Bennings
I could tell you weren't being serious and downvoted because it was pathetic self-victimization.
MidlandRedux
Thank goodness for that. It would be pathetic otherwise.
iamkarlpilkington
Still though, do ALL of these have to be shoot-to-kills?
aageek33
If a cop shoots, it's because he feels that all other options are gone. Gun is their last option. They sense they are in mortal danger.
LuigiVampa
No of course not and I wish there was some group advocating a middle ground of the cops have had a few murders, but also sometimes are (1)
LuigiVampa
forced to kill someone who is especially combative and truly threatening the lives of those around them. Unfortunately then both sides (2)
LuigiVampa
have to admit wrong doing and for their interests it never makes sense. As long as it's easier to just point at mistakes on the other side3
LuigiVampa
this will only ever move forward at a snails pace, if at all.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Cops shoot center of mass. Its only in movies that they shoot the legs or whatever. Wheter they all had to shoot at all is another matter.
senorsamuel
Sometimes if your backs to the wall you have no choice. I'm sure no one wants it to be a list of dead cops.
rocketturttle
the chest/torso is a 300-400 square inch target that when hit will often incapacitate even if it doesn't kill. Hand is 5-9s" and moving
squip
Cops are trained that if they shoot at all, they are to shoot to kill.
vidyagaem
Shoot until the target is incapacitated or not a threat.*
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vidyagaem
They shoot center mass to incapacitate the target. And just tell me how they'd shoot to keep the person alive.
theproofisinmypudding
You just shoot the gun out of their hand /s
Mrblackdub
I didnt say shoot. I said they needed to train about Tactics,trying 2 deescalate z situation, not tryin to shoot a runnin man with no weapon
Mountaineer30680
Yes. Have you ever tried shooting a handgun accurately under stress? Fight-or-flight adrenaline dump, shaking hands, tunnel vision? 1/
Mountaineer30680
You have to shoot the high-percentage shot - center mass. You aren't shooting to kill, necessarily, but to stop the threat.
MittensPlease
Except that they shoot dozens of times
aevansk1177
Okay here's what I want you to do get into a high stress environment where you are not sure whether or not the person your approaching has a
Mountaineer30680
Because they're shooting until the threat stops. And if there are six cops there the suspect usually isn't polite enough to wait while 1/
Mountaineer30680
the cops decide which one of them will shoot, so they all fall back on their training and they all shoot. I'm certainly not pro-police 2/
aevansk1177
fire arm then when they pull one and fire at you and see how many times you pull the trigger.
ViktorZnik
America does have problem with aggressive police. Just look up likelihood of being killed by police in Europe Vs America.
Segesta
Put a few hundred thousand black gangbangers with guns in Oslo, you'll see some aggressive policing.
SoapyMammaryMasturbation
Why black? I thought this wasn't a race thing?
Segesta
Sorry, I'm from Chicago. And it is a race thing--Europeans think they aren't racist but they are just about the worst
SoapyMammaryMasturbation
Europeans think who aren't racist? Black people? Other Europeans?
Barnstokkr
Doesn't really work when Europe lacks the gun problem of the US
ViktorZnik
I think it is more problematic than that. Look at deadly force against someone wielding a sharp object in USA and England.
Favri
So you're going to assume the problem lies with the police, not the level and types of crimes committed, because.........?
tybbiesniffer
Confirmation bias in action. Likelihood of being killed by anyone in US vs Eur? Sentiment may or may not be true but the logic is faulty
rocketturttle
look up the likelihood of police dying on the job in Europe v America
TheFragnatic
When there are more guns in the country than people that's not surprising. Cops are humans, they value their own lives.
Elroydb
We've ALWAYS had the guns. This aggressive law enforcement behavior is not consistent with our history
98BonersOnTheMoon
A lot of those were knives. They still have knives in Europe.
Choreopithecus
People are a result of their experiences. If youre used to being ready to deal with guns you might more readily use lethal force for a knife
xrufus7x
Which is something that could theoretically be resolved through better training.
Choreopithecus
Agreed
GrundleFondler
Which brings us to the bigger issue...
CyborgScribe
Fondling grundles.
GrundleFondler
Oh that's not an issue- it's an universal solution... Unhappy? Fondle grundles. Bored? Fondle grundles. Grandma died? Fondlewaitaminute...
BattloidKouji
Just playing devil's advocate, we only have one side of the story for a lot of these. The survivor's.
BattloidKouji
To clarify, I'm talking specifically about the ones that use the word 'allegedly'. that's what allegedly means.
WolfMcCloud
And that is the way history is written.
YamatoIouko
...so insightful.
OliverClothesoff70
You shouldn't be getting down voted for your statement. That's true.
hypnokrote
White Americans don't want to admit any of these might be lies because they might lose their gun privileges
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Textuality
Oh look, a racist.
PaperCl1p
That's insane
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vidyagaem
Please, shut up.
PaperCl1p
There's no evidence to support that
YouKnowThatOneGuyWhoDidThatThing
I call BS! "High on THC" does not lend itself to attacking anyone.
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vidyagaem
If you have a 'bad trip' from it, you can be incredibly irritable and paranoid, mixed woth hallucinations.
CommonsNorth
If theyre a violent person, it could just be a coincidence. Americans are scared of THC, but it probably didn't contribute to the issue
MerToo
guy also took xanax and mushrooms, so he probably had serotonin syndrome at least
Niddhoger
Some people get paranoid on weed. That fear can lead to aggression when hte "fight" part of the fear response kicks in.
squip
Maybe they meant PCP? I dunno.
Lizaderp
Except Doritos
Talligan
I attacked a bag of chips once.
Talligan
Fuckin demolished them too
Etlatalis
You beast.
senorsamuel
I know dude we want to put weed as far away from criminal activity as possible. But just like alcohol it has different affects. I have 1/2
senorsamuel
a friend who becomes a total aggressive fucktard every single time he's high. It can happen man honestly. You're not in your own mind. 2/2
CocaineAndSelfPleasure
Every single person I've ever met has not had an issue with aggressiveness while high. I know this is a personal experience but I also now 1
CocaineAndSelfPleasure
live in Colorado and the crime rates have gone down. Saying you're not in your own mind is false. Your friend may have his own mental issues
sanguis4k
no it actually can, THC like most drugs can have different effects on different people, the old myth of it causing hallucinations and 1/2
sanguis4k
violent behavior that was used to demonize it in the past partly came from a study which surveyed people with criminal or violent pasts 2/2
kalsarikannit
Friend of mine gets the fear so bad after smoking that he gets violent. PCP mellows him out. Different people are wired differently.
Etlatalis
THC causes me to become paranoid as hell which then puts me into a panic attack and I get kind of aggressive if there are situations.
rafilinux
Literally, 4 of the people on the list that were screamed @ by the cops to get down were legally deaf.
XenoCore
Well that's their fault for being deaf.
Lizaderp
That's a difficult one. It's not like deaf people wear a badge or anything stating that. You wouldn't be able to tell from a distance.
rafilinux
Some not all deaf people where a medical bracelet.
Etlatalis
Unless they have a shirt that says "I am a deaf person." then it is pretty hard to tell if they are, whereas a cop is pretty obviously a cop
YamatoIouko
I mean...what DO you do in that situation, though?
rafilinux
In 80's, the training for cops required you to check for medical bracelets in NYC. Not sure about the rest of the country.
YamatoIouko
No, but what do you DO with a deaf person?
rafilinux
Detained til a sign language person/officer is available to communicate. From what I've seen most cop just write on their pads to talk.
YamatoIouko
...detain a deaf person wielding a weapon and can't hear what you're saying. Um...WHAT?
6235river
Kill a deaf person, apparently.
YamatoIouko
You know what I mean. Is there a way to diffuse this situation without killing the aggressor?
flaccidhope
They manage to do it in other countries.
YamatoIouko
But HOW?
6235river
Yeah, I feel you. The police should be further trained on de-escalation. There are too many disabled people to NOT better train police.
YamatoIouko
IS there a way to train them in this particular situation, though? I'm not coming up with much. >.<
dontcallmeplath
Dude. My mom gets so much shit from cops where she lives bc she's a white-haired, kind of weird, poor, older woman. AND she's deaf.
SjorsM
Nr. 18 (running away with gun in back pocket) seems like excessive force. He wasn't threatening anyone.
UncivilizedEngie
Excessive force is judged differently between civilians and police. While civilians are not required to hunt down criminals, police are(1/2)
UncivilizedEngie
If he had just committed a crime and the police had reason to arrest him, this is considered Necessary Force (to subdue a perpetrator)(1/2)
UncivilizedEngie
Unlike civilians who do not have to hunt criminals, it is the job of police to stop criminals from being at large, so they are given (2/3)
UncivilizedEngie
more legal and fire power to stop other people and may use the minimum force to stop a criminal. In this case if the criminal can (3/4)
UncivilizedEngie
outrun the cop, the cop is allowed to use something faster--a bullet, to make him stop. (4/4)
GoCorral
It's the only questionable one on the list.
rocketturttle
http://abc7chicago.com/news/suspect-in-joliet-theft-fatally-shot-by-officer/543807/
SexualConsent
That's probably right, but the decision had to be made in a split second, so I can't really blame the officers
DreadJr
I don't wanna be the cop who has to run up to him with a tazer or tackle him while he has a gun on him. It was for the best
Favri
Yeah what's the worst that could happen when someone runs away form the police holding a gun.
SjorsM
Are you saying the police are allowed to shoot anyone who runs from them while carrying a gun?
Favri
No. They could be late for a gun delivery or show & tell. Seems unlikely they're a danger to anyone. Who hasn't run from the cops with a gun
senorsamuel
Some people need you to get close enough to shoot. You trick a cop into surrendering and just like that you got a warrant and dead man.
SjorsM
It says "fleeing" like: the opposite of getting closer.
fencerman
Most of these are actually cases of police misconduct - OP is a liar.
MerToo
running anywhere with a gun in your back pocket would have to constitute running towards *someone* with a gun in your back pocket =P
cakesandmemes
Surely then by that logic you could argue anyone carrying a gun poses a risk viable enough for a police officer to shoot them. It could...
cakesandmemes
Be solved by updating the second amendment to attempt to ensure dangerous people don't have easy access to guns..
cakesandmemes
Sorry, as a Brit I just don't really get the need for civilians with no training to be able to buy and use a gun.
MerToo
the need is caused by the fact that civilians with no training are able to buy and use a gun
MerToo
ha, i could plausibly argue that, looking at your gun death stats, but what we're talking about is *someone armed who runs from police*
MerToo
now you're a nice guy, you have a gun but no need to run from police. Armed people who run from cops are arguably dangerous to the public.
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
Have fun when that guy later in the day takes your kid hostage and puts a bullet in their head...
unscot
Bitch, this ain't a Harrison Ford movie.
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
Yea its real life and people can actually die.
SjorsM
Maybe a Liam Neeson movie?
tyronetyrone
The media sensationalizes every case that's remotely questionable & never mentioned these cut and dry cases. 1/2
JHRD1880
Isn't that completely normal ? A justified shooting isn't really news, someone being brutally beaten or murdered by police is.
bixby66
wondering why Mooseblogtimes listed only the most questionable cases. There's a lot of people missing from this list including Sandra Bland
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
I wouldn't be surprised if Mooseblogtimes is Durkin62's sock puppet and he "debunked" his own cherry-picked list.
bixby66
I'm nearly certain that's the case. Freddie Gray is also not on the list so it's not just an error.
Eajry
Wait; but the reason these cases were able to be pulled up is BECAUSE of the media? It's bloggers that are doing this kind of stuff.
tyronetyrone
Main stream media versus searchable crime statistics versus bloggers are all different things
Eajry
That's... Exactly what I was pointing out though. The media _did_ mention these cut and dry cases. Just a blogger took some statistics/nms
Eajry
And posted them up without checking Media
residentolive
These cases may not all be cut and dried though. We are likely only hearing official police reports here, aka one side of the story
Frederf
Like tried to run over officer is code for "officer in same hemisphere while suspect tried to pull away"
Exitus04
Doesnt matter its illegal... The point here is just follow the law and nothing bad should happen,simple concept that proves difficult to sum
Frederf
Fix your grammar and you get your point back.
AlkeneThiol
Pretty much. Yeah. It's not unexpected that every report on a death will make the officer look as justified as possible.
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Fatherdoodle
That's normally not hard to do but this might as well be true. Media is to blame for a lot of things.
JapAnus
I found the jellyfish. Where's my buttplug?
wolffe1166
Found the asshole dehumanizing moderately-thinking people, where's my cookie?
Stratego89
You are now the second person who has claimed I'm "dehumanizing" them by assuming them as a Trump Supporter. Says a lot about Trump huh?
YouAreGarbage111
No, it says a lot about you tho
Stratego89
Ayyyyy an idiot trying to act wise. Sod off and rot in hell with the rest of the Trump supporters. :)
wolffe1166
No, more like says a lot about everyone else who gave Trump supporters the title "degenerates"
BiologyIsInevitable
Says more of the "tolerant" left that people are singled out and humiliated for their opinions when they aren't the same.
BiologyIsInevitable
You can't expect to get to sling shit at people and then not get called out for whining that you've got shit on your hands.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Next to your "male tears" mug.
TheGodsMustBeCrazy
SLAM!
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
AND WELCOME TO THE JAM!
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
These upvotes feel so much more satisfying than any other i've gotten, thanks guys.
cbr600rr141
tyronetyrone
2/2 not to mention black-on-white violence are proportionately worse and whites killed by cops are also way more common.
imbitteraboutit
What about white on white crime.
HadIThoughtOfABetterNameYoudBeReadingItHere
What do you think wall street is?
tyronetyrone
That's rich-on-poor crime lol
YamatoIouko
He's not wrong.
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
Because there are more white people. Proportionally, blacks are targeted more by police. Tho that doesn't mean police are racist.
YamatoIouko
I'd say less "targeted" and more "encountered".
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tyronetyrone
But it is proportionate as compared to white/black violent criminals per capita. In other words people put themselves in situations 1/2
tyronetyrone
2/2 where they're more likely to incite a violent police response.
MateriaCaelestis
Yeah, I'm sure they put themselves in poverty. No systematic socioeconomical context to consider at all
residentolive
Have you ever looked at the black/white arrest gap for marijuana use vs. actual rates of use of marijuana? White people are just as 1/2
watsisface1
Not saying you're wrong. I'm genuinely interested and want to see where you got evidence for that
tyronetyrone
I don't have one singular source; I've seen dozens of articles over time. It's the most searchable crime statistic out there. Check it out
Yaohyuri
Look it up, you'll find the statistics in 2 seconds.
someguyfromnowhereclose
Sorry nobody cares about cops killing white people. We are not important enough. Just the taxes we pay are important.
residentolive
Lol. White people are the majority of this country. If "nobody cares", it's because white people themselves have chosen not to
someguyfromnowhereclose
This is partially true. Whites won't be the majority for too long, however are the ones who have mainly made it that way.
residentolive
(That is, for ignoring police-on-white brutality).
residentolive
minorities. But we only have other white people to blame for that is just my point. 2/2
residentolive
I'm white myself and it blows my mind how willing other white people are to ignore police brutality because they think it only affects 1/2
fencerman
White on black violence is a far greater danger for black people than black on white violence is for white people.
tyronetyrone
That's an interesting take. What do you mean by "more dangerous"?
fencerman
It's more likely for any given black person to be killed by a white person than vice-versa, from the perspective of danger to an individual.
tyronetyrone
I actually think this is statistically false. Can you show me a link?
tyronetyrone
here's a link that shows otherwise. https://infogr.am/Black-34991937313
asscactus2001
Fair to say most police killings are justified.This isn't proof that current police tactics are sound and adequately promote de-escalation.
Iwantgreenarrows
Also de escalation is not available when the suspect forces the situation. Pointing a gun at an officer will result in shots fired.
grandmaswag
what I hate most is people bending over backwards to defend dumbasses who clearly shouldn't be cops in the first place
RecurringNightmare
US police tactics are insanely driven towards dominance, there is no stepping back, what leads to a truckload of dead criminals, bystanders>
RecurringNightmare
> and cops...always maximum escalation, win or die...on the other hand, criminals in the US are equally if not more idiotic and suicidal, >
RecurringNightmare
> they go win or die, too...so cops dont have much room or time for talking, negotiation and de-escalation...its a really sick situation! <<
Sed2Said
The dead can't tell their side of the story. The cops could say that the suspect went Super Saiyan if they are the only witnesses.
gnuclear
In 2017, there's almost always going to be some random person with a smartphone recording things.
HailHarbaugh
Graham v Connor. Cops just have to act "reasonable" from their perspective at the time. This is why they aren't prosecuted
webcamtarantula
Yeah the american police force overall isn't the best at de-escalation.
LazyLexiconographer
You do not get to use hyperbolic untrue rhetoric and then roll that shit back with a well . . . I am sure there is some abuse . . .
ThisIsAnEvilThrowAway
Meh. Got ratfucked by paris subway fines (KEEP YOUR TICKET) I was infuriated. But I "Deescalated" situation by not being a stupid fuck.
UpvoteTotem
I think we all know that. It's an impossibly difficult task. But putting out misinformation is why this post is here. Respect.
BoooBerry
"Sound" and "adequate" are subjective.
Allrighty
A lot of them are still lacking in context. What happened before someone drew a knife on a cop? Was shooting him the best option? etc.
Bunchie
Go ahead, justify drawing a weapon on a cop. I'll wait right here. And no, you're not being detained.
Allrighty
If the cop's going to shoot you anyway...
SageGirl
Sad thing is that US police tactics won't change until US gun laws tighten up. Sauce: Training to be LEO in Canada, have gone on 9 ride 1/
RecurringNightmare
you are right, insane US police tactics derive from a shitload of insane citizens with a shitload of illegal(and sometimes even legal) guns>
RecurringNightmare
>so basically everyone is "armed and dangerous" and cops are permanently scared for their lifes...fucked up situation...<<
SageGirl
alongs with US departments (because that's what I do for fun on vacation). Nearly all US cops are paranoid AF about getting shot. A lot 2/
SageGirl
of them openly scoffed at the tactics I'm taught in Canada for dealing with situations non-violently, because all of them went 3/
SageGirl
"yeah, well, anyone could have a gun. I'm not going to de-escalate until I know there's no guns and as far as I know, everyone has guns." 4/
SageGirl
It's rather disheartening. :/ But it was hard to argue back, because all of them could tell me about officers they knew personally being 5/
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Illthinkofausernamelater
A lot pf that has nothing to do with color and everything to do with location. Seattle police are less likely to resort to shooting as 1
Illthinkofausernamelater
Quickly as Chicago police. Locations with lower crime rates have less shootings.
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EarthAnimalArmy
you done applying your bait? ready to fish?
EarthAnimalArmy
you done applying your bait? ready to fish?
hearthstoneaccount9
Eh quite a lot of those that he listed didn't deserve death, death is never justified IMO.
EarthAnimalArmy
Death is natural, and part of the Crime problem in USA is the lack of capital punishment, i kill people and only get locked , fed for life?
DontAskMelJustWorkHere
Too bad the statistics don't support that viewpoint at all. Bringing back the death sentence would be going backwards as a society.
paramedicnotadriver
Does the police officer deserve to be stabbed or murdered then? Calmly I seriously ask if you can justify a cop taking injury/death because
paramedicnotadriver
Someone trues to assault them? Should it be the law abiding cop that dies, or the law breaking criminal?
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[deleted]
[deleted]
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RaynWisp
Never? Really? Never...? Like ever?
Eajry
Never justified? I could think of ... many cases where its justified. To protect innocent lives for ex. If you could kill 1 to save 5?
TheNatu
Ah, the train dilemma. Yes of course you're right but what he was trying to say (I think) is that when it's possible to save a life, do it <
Dallium
It's not the train dilemma. The assumption there is everyone is innocent. This is "will you murder a murderer to stop them from murdering?"
TheNatu
> instead of taking the easy path of killing. I have to agree. Sometimes it is necesarry, but always go the extra mile to try and save evry1
EarthAnimalArmy
if you give cause for a cop to shoot at you, you better expect him to shoot you dead, there is no such thing as shooting wound
AwesomeCherryBlossom
So if somebody aimed a gun at you or your family with the intention to kill, would you kill them to save your or your family's life?
AwesomeCherryBlossom
And if you would kill them, do you think you should then be imprisoned for self defense?
hearthstoneaccount9
No I wouldnt because personally I do not believe anyone actively sets out with the intent to kill and bringing a weapon into that situation1
hearthstoneaccount9
be accepted even in self defence there is always a better choice even if it comes at the cost of physical pain or financial loss 3/3
AwesomeCherryBlossom
I'm very glad you aren't in charge of criminal law decisions.
hearthstoneaccount9
does nothing but guarantees one of you will die, if i were to kill him I should go to prison its not that complicated murder should never 2
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Thank you! There aren't any lies here, but many people will see this and think it means institutionalized police racism isn't a problem.
EarthAnimalArmy
well then they would be thinking correctly based on this
DontAskMelJustWorkHere
Wrong.
LazyLexiconographer
Some people have a brain and know that arguments start with claims, and that evidence trumps narrative . . .
DontAskMelJustWorkHere
A person with a brain would know that this list alone is neither evidence for or against institutionalised racism in the police
LazyLexiconographer
Right, because that is not how it works. If a person were to claim such a thing, they would then offer evidence which a list is not.
gnuclear
But if you want to claim that there is, you need to provide examples where you can actually *demonstrate* racism was a factor.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
But how would you even do that? You'd have to have the cop basically admit that he shot the guy because he was black. Who would do that?
gnuclear
People who are *actually* racist usually leave evidence around somewhere. Eg random comments they put on facebook.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
The thing is that individual outright and outspoken racist cops aren't really the problem, since they're very rare. Most cops are like 1/2
gnuclear
Not to mention, any idiot with a smartphone can just start recording video. And that happens very frequently.
gnuclear
It helps to be able to show that there was no valid reason to use the amount of force that was used.
CoBr2
I don't understand the shot suspect while he was fleeing ones... That sounds pretty sketch even if he has a gun in back pocket.
HernanDIE
If one person (think a stick figure) has the actual potential, meaning that they can and will, to kill innocent people, then (1/2)
HernanDIE
Deadly force should be a viable option. Respect human life and have yours respected back. Not to say they plan to kill, but real potential.
CoBr2
but having a gun alone isn't enough. They have to have reasonable belief that he WILL kill or injure someone. The info given wasn't enough
CoBr2
I mean, maybe he DID do something to give that reasonable belief, but it bothers me that if he did they didn't bring it up.
OGGiraffeMan2021
Threat to the public, continuation of the offence, and totality of circumstances must be considered. Criminal gets away hurts an innocent..
CoBr2
Yeah, another user commented Tennessee vs Garner. In short they need reasonable suspicion that someone will be injured if he escapes. 1/
CoBr2
2/ so it bothers me that "flees with gun in pocket" was all the info given because that isn't enough.
CaptaineObvious
That's a not really what Tennessee v Garner was about, "Fleeing by means of a deadly weapon" is justification for deadly force most states
HotFudgeMonday
A violent, armed suspect who is believed to cause harm or death after fleeing is grounds for deadly force, in my city anyway.
scooterific
I understand this but I don't think anyone should get shot for simply not complying or resisting
HotFudgeMonday
I know you don't believe it, but that is rare.
scooterific
Didnt say it is the case every single time just jumping to that level of force isn't always needed.Should learn not to assume others beliefs
ArcaneConjecture
But "believed" to cause harm is highly subjective. Blacks claim that cops are much more likely to "believe" Blacks to be dangerous.
HotFudgeMonday
Meaning, if the asshole just robbed or shot someone, he is a danger and has to be stopped before he does it again.
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EarthAnimalArmy
wow, you watch one Movie that is total fiction, bad cop uses a drop gun, and now all cops do it?!!! so are you afraid of 1/2
[deleted]
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EarthAnimalArmy
black painted circles in walls and floors that let you pass through? like in bugs bunny cartoons?
CoBr2
Sure, if those things are true, but he ONLY said fleeing with gun in back pocket as if that was enough.
GeekGrandMaster
Tennessee vs Garner
CoBr2
Hey my memory was correct :). Thanks, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.
takhat
Fear and bad experiences are very likely possibilities, in an era of blm inspired violence, cops are scared too, ultimately makes it worse
ArcaneConjecture
IF cops can shoot Blacks because of "fear and bad experiences", can citizens shoot cops for the same reason? Or are we a nation of laws?
CoBr2
It just bothered me that he gave no further context and called it justified. Running isn't enough on its own
Acmoore456
I am incredibly disheartened by the amount of upvotes for "but what about black-on-black crime?" to justify police brutality.
SmellingThePsychosphere
Just shows how BLM should update their name to "A Tiny, Over-Publicized Fraction of Black Lives Matter."
Acmoore456
You really get it!
BossCar9
Definitely doesn't justify abuse of power. Both issues run far deeper than what you see on the surface.
spacedriiip
I am glad someone agrees with this.
UnluckyLunkhead
Because all cops are white and none of those deaths were from black officers?
Acmoore456
Black officers can internalize the "othering" of blacks as well, and act on it.
commodorelewis
Why? It's Imgur, they love this shit
squip
It's not being used to justify anything. The point with that statement is that concerns about black people dying seems to be selective.
Mrblackdub
No, Any crime is wrong. But when a public servant that you pays for is killing niggas out here, like another gang, then that shit is wrong
Acmoore456
PREACH
teal6
Imgur is a very racist site.
therealskoopy
Or imgur is more for properly pointing out that things like this is an issue with culture, not race. In which case, makes you racist.
YamatoIouko
Because the users of Imgur are a collective. Also, that means you're racist too since you're a user. ;3
Acmoore456
We'll fix it: "Imgur is a great forum for racists to pat each other on the back for their closed-minded, bigoted views"!
YamatoIouko
...still haven't disqualified yourself. :P
Acmoore456
Look at that logic! Nailed it!
Acmoore456
So it seems!
YamatoIouko
Or maybe you're being highly reductionist?
Acmoore456
Nope!
YamatoIouko
You seem awfully sure of that. Almost as if facts have nothing to do with your beliefs on this.
Textuality
On the other hand, lots of people seem quite happy to jump on the "all cops are corrupt" bandwagon and blame everything on the police.
CyborgScribe
Not all cops are, but I can't tell them apart from a distance so I steer clear of them all to be safe.
Acmoore456
Generalization doesn't suit any group of people. It's clear that there is a problem.
Groznek
The arguement is more complex than that. It's not that all cops are corrupt, it's that the bad apples are protected way too goddamn often.
MittensPlease
If the good ones took initiative and ousted the bad ones things would be very different
theresgarlicinthatnebula
Seriously. Like how more obvious do you have to be to be called a racist in this country? If your response to "black people are being (1/2)
theresgarlicinthatnebula
(2/2) killed" is "well they deserve it because they're violent", then I think you have a racism issue.
Acmoore456
Holy mother of GOD, YES. I don't see any stats up there about the unarmed men, or ones that called for help from police in the first place.
YamatoIouko
I have a question. What would you do if it was shown that 1% or less of the people killed were what you described here?
Acmoore456
Sounds like you're implying that every person on this list deserves to be here, considering the low statistic you're asking.
therealskoopy
Or how about because they broke the law and attempted to murder someone, they in turn get killed? Race is the red herring here.
theresgarlicinthatnebula
It's never applied individually though. It's always "what about black-on-black crime" or "blacks are disproportionately violent monsters"
therealskoopy
It goes both ways. Using race as bait or using it to discredit the event are both shitty. Ignoring both seen and unseen b/c of race? No.
Acmoore456
So if someone is suspected of a crime, they deserve to be murdered? When I see a White mass shooter escorted away in a bulletproof (1/2)
therealskoopy
I too can take one extreme example and juxtapose it against a regular one.
Acmoore456
(2/2) vest, and a black Austism Specialist laying on the ground with his hands up identifying himself, and he's shot anyway, FUCK THAT.
YamatoIouko
TL;DR: It's wrong to think committing a crime and threatening an officer is justified reason for lethal force if the criminal is black. Yes?
Acmoore456
"Too long didn't read" what, 200 characters of a comment?!
YamatoIouko
It was a summation.
theresgarlicinthatnebula
"Committing a crime" is not justification for lethal force regardless of race. And if officers are threatened by the appearance of a (1/2)
theresgarlicinthatnebula
(2/3) black man because of the latent racism that is present in everyone in our society, then I'd say we need to take a look at what