skysailor93
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Submarine CEO probably should have read this.
Not making jokes - my heart goes out to the kid on board - but hopefully, this serves as a reminder to rich folk that their desire to remove regulations from their work will come back to haunt them.
CausticLemonEnema
That same statement about rules written in blood was also taught to us in A&P school. FAA regulations are there because people died.
Darklinkinfinite
If you haven’t seen Poison Squad on PBS, I highly recommend it! Companies would literally feed you rotten meat and sawdust if federal regulations didn’t say they couldn’t https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/poison-squad/
NotyouGuillermo
I know a guy who worked with a group that investigates weird ships coming into Canadian waters. Some country (you can probably guess which) was coming in with a bunch of waste just packed to the rafters and was trying to sneak up to the north pole to dump it. By the time the investigators made it on the ship half the crew had died. Over the next ten years every investigator got some kind of cancer(as did the detection dogs). People who don't care about life deserve worse than death.
Sechran
"Well there's no rule saying we *can't* [do grotesquely dangerous, irresponsible thing in the name of saving a buck]!" - why so very many stupid rules *have* to exist.
StormCrowMith
I used to think the rich would prioritize THEIR safety with that amount of money, fuck everyone else but them, now this proved me wrong.
Bobbobbobobbananafanafobob
I don't understand how people don't know this. When was the last time the government did anything proactive to protect anyone? They make these regulations because it makes them look good AFTER something shitty happens. Being seen to be doing something is more important than proactively preventing it, because no one's interested in something that didn't happen.
BastonneKnight
Safety regulations need enforcement to work and that is where we are failing. I've worked for employers that locked fire exits and used fire escapes as stock rooms. Both were caught and both paid the fine and kept doing what they were doing because it was just the cost of doing business. Until the punishment is enough to make a company stop and think that blood spent is being wasted.
Snooj
My local Dairy Queen has a sign on the counter that says they do not do the thing where they flip a Blizzard upside down. Definitely blood.
myballshurt
Every safety, building, fire code has a body count. Its always reactionary. Wait for something to happen.
afatrollofmyown
THe worst part is that someone will sound an alarm about how something could go wrong, and they're ignored. A death could've been prevented, but we had to wait until someone was killed before we took it seriously.
myballshurt
And its usually more than one death
electrajet
As a working stiff, I don't have much sympathy for anyone (much less super rich people) dying while performing Stupid Human Tricks. As a fellow human being, however, I hope they went instantly and painlessly due to implosion, still thinking that they were on the adventure of a lifetime.
JustDontCare
Didn’t know a kid was on the sub. Fuck. Looked it up. Someone with their whole life ahead of them. Reality is rough…
rshini
yeah, and given most rich people tend to be control freaks with their families, doubted the kid was given an option not to go.
Kittynomnoms
I read somewhere (no proof, didn't look into it) that he was trying to back out of it and his dad pressured him into going.
rshini
apparently it was his aunt who said it, and given it was father's day (both lived in the UK)...
LoyalToTheEnd
I always get eye rolls when I bring this point up.
DSREX
Then you know who to trust. Those people do not care about anyone else. I know whos works I would be checking every time.
moecurlylarry
This was very good. I enjoyed the post and the comments. I am reminded of my favorite safety instruction on box of nails. It was written on the box do not put nails in mouth.
BullshitUpTheWhazoo
Warning: *These nuts may contain nuts* that one is my favorite
zerpy
This one might seem absurd, but imagine both hands are in use holding a nail and driving that nail. People often naturally end up holding a handful in their mouth as a sort of nail magazine to save time. We are missing an appendage for doing that super efficiently. Just google image search and you find a ton of examples. Bad obviously because of the physical danger but also coatings in the nails.
CactusFantastic0
Damn. Didn’t think of the coating. I do that shit all the time. Have just the nail heads in a line in my teeth, pointy bits out. Figured no real danger with my little framing nails. But the coating……
jridley
There are a lot of images online of Xrays of wads of nails that carpenters have swallowed.
localsurfer
That's because nails are sometimes coated with cadmium, which is poisonous.
Traquaire
Have you never done that? What about a flashlight? Your keys? Nothing? This one isn't hard to understand that people often hold things in their mouth when they need both hands for something else.
rshini
Seen a curling iron with "do not use internally"
MagmaCarta
As a safety professional (and a note to other safety professionals): Do what is right, and live with the consequences. 🦺
doctorId
And then after decades of people not being hurt because those safety regs are in place, some billionaire lobbies to get them repealed and then we end up with toxic waste spills in the suburbs. The circle of life.
JeremyPeevin
I always remember the story of the radium paint used on clocks and wristwatches that caused cancer. In the 1920s factory workers would point the paintbrushes with their lips. Which, they didn't know at the time that it was poisonous. The problem is after they realized it was poisonous they still kept using it, hiding the fact from their workers. It wasn't discontinued until 1968, Over 40 years after the first lawsuit.
Ambitiousnobody
If anyone's interested in learning more about this, I recommend reading "The Radium Girls: The Dark Story of America's Shining Women" by Kate Moore. What those workers went through was horrible.
Ultratoxic
This is what grinds my teeth when the fuckin reds guffaw about their "deregulation-athons". My grandparents fought and died on picket lines for those regulations and they help keep ME safe at my job. But they can't get wait to strip them away from me in the name of corporate profits
TheM1ck
When I took a course on HazCom by 49CFR so that I could inspect and certify containers being shipped back from deployments, I was given the same speech. We were all very impressed, and made sure we followed the regulations thoroughly. Then we got to the railhead, where our carefully researched and applied placarding was all ripped right off the containers and we were told none of that applied to OUR containers, they're exempt. Now sign this form, Buck Sergeant.
WillyLaShade
Some men just want to explode
IJustWantToMakeAComment
One of the few times that unregulated capitalism actually hurt a 1%er rather than make them richer. If that sun had normal people in it we wouldn’t hear about it nearly as much
Merky600
“I think it was (US Army) Gen. (Douglas) MacArthur who said, ‘You’re remembered for the rules you break,’” Rush told Alan Estrada, who documented his trip to the Titanic, including an aborted attempt in July 2021 before a successful visit in 2022.”
richardstinks
I'm on board with this post, but CEO Submariner would have been the guy packing radon into bunk beds. This is for the workers, not the bosses. Maybe "Take Your Kid to the Bottom of the Ocean Day" is a bad idea.
Imsomewhatofaboobmyself85
I know this is serious but who would have thought the most metal job would be Worker Safety, Health and Environmental Protection.
airbreather
This is why we should normalizing replacing the word “regulations” with “protections” in normal discourse. “I’m a small business owner, I believe in small government and less protections” sounds a whole lot more honest.
ikron8211
There's no rule that says a dog can't pilot a sub!
brianingram
Billionaire man, billionaire man
Doing the things a miser can
What's he like? It's quite important
Billionaire man
Wanting to steal, or wanting to lie?
What's his idea, will somebody die?
Or do they just suffer?
Nobody can tell, billionaire man
xmaneds
"when he's in the water, does he get wet? or does the water get him instead?"
brianingram
We shall see
haki23
They used fly-by-wire in their little sub. No way to interact with safety features in the event of mechanical failures. Stuff actual sub designers used to prevent sailors from drowning
retailmemedrone
I’m sure it was more of the issue of the sun was not designed to reach the depths they were going. Also the fact that the navy just announced finding a new debris field near the titanic yeah it surpassed crush depth.
req4adream99
But those cost money. (I’d like to say I was joking but that’s literally the gist of what the creator said.)
Californiajackson
The Titan has made 2 full and one partial (aborted) previous trips down and ALL OF THEM HAD PROBLEMS. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/21/1183408455/titan-missing-submarine-oceangate-submersiblehttps://www.npr.org/2023/06/21/1183408455/titan-missing-submarine-oceangate-submersible
BigKangDangaLangSlanga
Could you link some info? I tried looking it up, but all I saw were articles about how the fly-by-wire system was easier and safer than the old hydraulic systems. Really curious
OverTheEventHorizon
Fly by wire systems inherently control an actuator of some form at the end of the control loop, be it hydraulic or electrical. If it doesn’t have backup mechanical linkages, I’d be looking at least at a completely independent set of controls for redundancy. There should be no single point failures in a system designed to maintain life.
xj4low
Limited on board navigation sensors, exposed propulsion motors and blades, no means of surface communication, no manual secondary equipment (even small planes have 2 sets of everything - ignition, gauges, controls, etc). Here is a grim thought, they had enough air for 4 people for 90 hours but how long could the air last with just 1 or two people? Ehh, probably froze to death first.
rshini
and no way for them to get out on their own in the case they had surfaced far away from the their rendezvous point - calling it a deathtrap is too generous.
BrigidtheMechLady
Best case, the sub imploded and they all died instantly when they lost communications
Suppagappa
Seems like that was indeed the case.
Elnauriel
I don't think there's enough evidence to say. The ocean floor is massive, and visibility is only about 10 feet, or 3 meters at that depth if you're using good lighting. It's incredibly easy to lose something down there and not be able to find it, even it it's fully intact.
zhaulus
Latest was debris found, so...
sadurdaynight
I did analytics for 2 decades for execs. I worked with folks that would want me to fudge numbers, or for our company to break regulatory regulations, all to make a few bucks more. I was the EQ-oriented analyst that often reality-checked them. But, when I did a business sim in college, I found myself going down that rabbit hole of becoming a desensitized prick. It's very very easy to start ignoring things when you're just looking at numbers on spreadsheets.
Subsound
Sadly, nothing is "common sense". I knew a supply chain dude that would stick his finger in hydrofluoric acid to test it since it was often low concentration. We got a higher concentration to dilute and he lost a finger. He was repeatedly told before, it had the materials data sheet, and it had big red stickers on it...he "forgot" and its skin permeable.
berserk
Man, that stuff is nasty. I treat it with more care than dynamite. No way I would be putting my finger in it.
Subsound
Oh yeah, it's one of the most horrifying things I can think of. I can't imagine if he scratched his eyes or his nuts after "testing" it with his finger.
foxmichaels
Every FRA regulation for the railroads is the exact same way - written in blood. Why can't I disconnect more than one wire at a time from a signal house without doing a FULL test once everything is back together? Because someone crossed two wires they disconnected in the past, didn't test, and caused a fatality at a grade crossing.
OhIfIMust
Modern Marvels did a number of episodes on Engineering Disasters, and I can't think of a single one that didn't arise from "Lazy, greedy idiots just didn't do what they were supposed to," usually from the top-down.
OddlyPacific
FAA regulations may make it feel like aviation isn’t progressing or that it’s impossible for the little guy to get involved but every letter of the law represents a tragic early death.
Filanwizard
When I see people talk about experimental aircraft it does at times seem like the FAA is in fact quite permissive as long as you are testing where there is no risk of things falling on people.
OddlyPacific
Experimental certified aircraft don’t go anywhere with paying customers, let alone somewhere manned aircraft never go.
TK421isAFK
I used to teach an NEC (National Electric Code) class, and every session, I challenged my students to come up with a Code section in which I could not find a news article or significant, catastrophic event leading to loss of life, major injury, or property loss that directly led to that Code section being implemented. In 9 years, not a single person won that challenged, but hundreds tried. It was a fun game that encouraged them to read the Code and its history.
foxmichaels
That's a really awesome way of teaching. Hat's off to you, sir!
hewgothestrange
Same for NFPA (national fire protection association) every one of those codes is the result of a death or injury
Filanwizard
on the topic of fire protection, you would have thought Grenfell in the UK would have sparked a drive for suppression systems in high rise MDUs. But fire marshals and NFPA may as well be pissing into the wind with city councils to scared to anger wealthy property management conglomerates.
foxmichaels
One of my maintainers also works with fire systems, and he was absolutely blown away when I explained to him that we do not HAVE to change out battery packs every 5 years, but only when the bank starts to show a drop in capacity..
BarryTheCyborg
Same goes for medical devices, but they also usually involve some horrible experiments with minimal oversight. e.g. the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. As my professor would say, "nothing changes until innocent people die".
foxmichaels
.. I'll have to look this up. Woah.
rshini
and Psychology - the Stanford and Milgrams' Experiments are both considered groundbreaking in the field (though recently both experiments had the validity of their methodology and results questioned) - because of those experiments, Ethics boards will never sanction any experiment that involve causing physical harm or severe mental distress to participants.
monkeydwolfwood
Iirc part of the reason we have so much knowledge of the effects of cold on humans is that the Japanese froze people to death in ww2
IFoldlyGo
Like the Therac-25, where they only had software control over the radiation being emitted - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
DreamingOfDistantShores
Latest news is a debris field has been found in the area, lending credence to the 'instant implosion' ending being most likely. Probably the best of all bad options, considering.
Anarchduke
Could have been the CEO banging the hatch open so they could swim. He seems bright enough for that.
Filanwizard
which means the clanging heard on passive sonar(technically hydrophones I believe) was probably sub parts hitting the floor of the ocean. or the sounds of the structure failing. of course could also just have been incidental sound.
rshini
there were also banging sounds heard during the search for the missing Malayasian flight, it's probably just weird ocean sounds we don't know about.
SeeMyVests
There are lots of sounds in the ocean, and sound travels differently than in air, so there are any number of things that aren’t even this-event related that could have been making perceptible sounds. It would be merciful for the sounds to NOT have been from the sub travelers after all. To “live” that long and then still die at the end of it all feels so much more tragic than the alternatives
TheGhostofElizabethShue
Can we stop calling the 19 year old a kid? I'm sure he's young and clueless and it's sad what's happening to him, but I heard the phrase "19 year old boy" on the goddamn 6 o'clock news. He's a man. It might sound minor but there's a very real effort to disenfranchise young people by raising the voting age going on right now and constantly infantilising young adults doesn't help.
SecretImigurianLurkerAgent
I was once on a littke submarine in turkey with 8 years i only got on the sub after we were told that maximimbdepht was 10 feet and it was more a boat with a belly than a submarine
Piccolini
I see it a lot in the news re: rape stories.... Young woman raped (16y)... teen driver (19y) kills someone... they phrase it knowingly to fit their agenda
Frothington
In this case I reckon it's just news people trying to make it seem more tragic by turning him into a kid.
nero4ty2
A 19 year old is just a young kid though, legally an adult in some ways but still has a developing brain, also as a former 19 year old, they are pretty much all completely clueless
marquettegoldeneagles
Well shit...nicely said
Diplocrap
I call my adult children my kids. I mean it affectionately. And with all the empathy in the world for having been there myself at one time.
WrenchGirl
I don't know. Maybe we shouldn't call him a kid, but I get the sentiment behind "kid" or "boy" in this case as "he is only 19, with most of his life ahead of him, and he may not get to enjoy that". A kind of sorrow. Now english is my second language, so I might miss a point here. Marginalization of the younger generations on grounds of lack of experience and age, and thereby removing rights from them, is however absolutely not acceptable.
TheZacAttack
Fuckin this^ not to mention the horrific "well he deserves it too" views being pushed on Imgur. The kid might have been born rich, but I doubt at 19 he had a huge part of what his dad's interests were.
yakusokuN8
They could call him a "young man", which is still accurate and yet drives home the point that he's inexperienced in life, due to this age.
RottedOnion
If he was a minority suspected of a crime he would absolutely by called an adult man.
jayman0123
Example:
polarbearbaby
150 yrs ago a 19yr old man would have been working his own land and would have built a hut to live in and would have been engaged in activities that demonstrated that he could support a wife & children. 19 yr olds aren’t children. Unless their parents are rich, clearly.
JoyfulStrawberrySalad
All minorities boys suspected of crimes are "men" in the media from age 14 onward.
SupernaturalReactions
permissiontolosedenied
Idk porn hub calls 19 year olds teens tho?
astrangehop
Well they're teens. You'll note it doesn't often call them kids.
shyasen
18 & 19 year old people are both adults and teenagers. Porn Hub seems to be correct on many topics.
ballsoutflyer
Exactly. He's a fully grown adult, making his own decisions now. Perfectly capable of understanding the risks but chose to ignore them because "I'm rich, rules are for the poor and the help."
CreatureFromtheBlackLegume
His frontal lobe probably wasn't at it's peak yet
Aysling
According to the news article about it imploding he didn't want to go but went because it was Father's day. Also the risk-assessment area of the brain doesn't fully develop until 25.
Thrabalen
Let's be real here, no one with rich parents are making their own decisions. Rich people are control freaks, especially with their progeny.
astrangehop
Iirc he was scared to go down but did it as a father's day present
Thrabalen
Yep. He did as he was asked, like a good rich kid. And look where it got him. Sad as hell, he never stood a chance.