DarthPiette
84231
1073
27
After a lousy raise, I started looking for a new job. I have accepted a job offer making $27.39 compared to my current $21.23.
I was under the assumption that my current work would be unable to make an adequate counter offer.
I was wrong.
They countered with $26.
This makes me conflicted because my current commute is 10 minutes each way. My new commute would be 25 minutes plus union dues.
New job would be second shift, which is a plus because my wife is also second shift and we'd see each other a lot more during the week.
I don't know what to do here.
Edit: thank you, everyone, for the advice and insight. I will be declining the counter-offer.
EternalEclypse
Leave, that counter offer would only be good if it were higher and continued employment guaranteed in writing for minimum 2 years.
Otherwise theyll fire you in 5months to a year when that counter offer they gave you is too expensive to continue and theyll hire "another new you" for half the cost
Source: my boss and i are essentially forced to do this with our team if it comes up We always go through unofficial channels to tell them to take the new job because its assinine to do this to people
GCRust
"Plus Union Dues".
Take the Union Job, every. single. time. Without a Union, your current job can yank back that $26 counter offer at any time.
HufflePuffPuff
Unless you really like your current job and are 100% confident they won't go behind your back and hire someone for less, take the other job.
MagmaCarta
Leave. Your current company already knows that you were looking to leave. Everything you do will be scrutinized to the point where they can terminate you for "poor performance." They had no money for you until the threat of you leaving materialized. The counter offer is their stopgap.
jackodn
My experience says it's almost never a good idea to stay once you’ve made a decision to leave. YMMV and best of luck.
themobileappisbroken
Take the new job.
The fact that your current employer (nearly) matched the new job offer means they could have been paying you that to begin with but didn't.
modus0
The fact that they didn't come back with an offer exceeding the new job's means they'll do whatever they can to avoid giving any more raises too.
ClutterMonkey
Take the new job. Start with a clean slate. Your previous employer showed they will give you only what they must to make you compliant not what you are worth.
delecti
The new job seems like the easy answer. Union protection, more time with your wife, and not staying at a job that underpaid you until you threatened to leave. Spending an extra half-hour a day is certainly not ideal, but it's far outweighed IMO.
Ballunatik
If your job only felt the need to fairly compensate you when under threat of you leaving then it is not worth staying there.
Fishinlaw
Counter with 28 and more PTO...make it worth staying...the fact that they countered with less is ridiculous... Has a counter while your commute is farther just tell him while I'm planning on moving
mastikator
This. If they want a lower turnover they will raise wages beyond inflation. They know this. They suck at their business and deserve their fate.
Viper3232
This often gets repeated but is rarely possible in practice. By which metric do you determine "fair wages"? Is it the cost of living in the area? The average price of that job across all industries? After that number is determined, how do you ensure the employee is performing to that metric? An employee needs to assert their worth and negotiate for it, just like the company does when you take the job.
MissSiesta
This.
HalfSong
They didn’t even match the compensation fully
ICampOntheFirstDate
I was talked into staying once. It was a mistake. They promised a fast track program to management, a raise, and dangled the idea of opening a new location with me heading it. The only thing they delivered on was the raise, and meanwhile I saw them start to miss payments to vendors. I jumped ship (again) two years later. There is a reason why you entertained an offer elsewhere, and it isn't just money. Follow your gut.
CrisprCAS
Spend time with your wife.
littmuslozenge
This 3x
barredone
This.
CoffeeMakesMeTwitchy
I also chose op's wife
subzone9
This 2x
1526395847
Union + more time with wife + the other guys wouldn’t give you a real raise until you were leaving. Screw the old guys and get to the new mess.
WicCaesar
Always leave, as they will substitute you as soon as they can, 100% of the time.
PutThePRNDLinD
Taking a counter is hit-or-miss. They value the inconvenience of replacing you, but that doesn't mean they value you. Good luck!
gotohe11carolina
Leave and find a good podcast. 25 minutes is perfect for a quick podcast on the commute.
TequestaAlquizar
Behind the Bastards. Last Podcast on the Left. The Age of Napoleon. All great places to start.
gotohe11carolina
I’ll add history of England, history of Rome and revolutions
DarthPiette
I am behind on several audiobooks as well!
MadDucks
This is a tale as old as time: They can't fford your raise. You find a new job. Suddenly they offer you a raise. You take the raise and stay. They have you train a new employee. And they they fire you without notice. From their point of view you staying is a win win because you can train your replacement and you get punished by no longer having another job to go to because you turned it down. There's r/workreform you can ask this question at and you'll get a lot of people shairng their stories.
kyro
This. The circumstance in which you should stay would be if their counteroffer was a paybump big enough to justify you having to find another job within a year, because you most likely will.
MadDucks
Yep. It's very much and completely standard operating procedure for corporations. Raise pay long enough to find a replacement and fire without notice the millisecond an employee can be phased out. Corporations have no emotions, no empathy. Only protocol. And that protocol is there only for the sake of profit. Nothing else exists. Many corporations these days would watch millions die without a care in the world for as little as a fraction of a percent increase in profit.
VodkaReindeer
Some say Air Canada's chatbot was too human for them.
A1ekazam
Take the union job.
DildoMussolini
Seriously! I'd give my left nut for my industry to unionize.
A1ekazam
Same!
drbwaa
If you stay, the best case is you have to do the whole dance over again for your next raise. Just leave.
dendiverdown
Leave. I made the mistake of staying after a counter offer once, and I got canned 10 months later. By all means, bolt.
PrincessPuffyPants
Fuck the old job, that just means they could have paid you better this whole time yet choose not to, they have no loyalty to you so don't give them any in return.
PlaceHolderTitle
The union dues mean you will have union protection from wrongful termination. Unless they offer you significantly more than the second job leave and take the new job, once your first job know you are willing to leave it is really iffy how you will be treated. Best case they do nothing worst case they keep you around just long enough until they hire your replacement then fire you.
LostCause97
Never, ever take the counter offer. Never.
itadakimeowsu
Leave. Remember why you started looking in the first place and that you'll keep getting lousy raises.
fmrandom
I think I would leave. When you stay: how do you know that they are not looking for someone who does your job for $20 and are just stringing you along until they found a cheaper replacement?
brjdrb
Take the job that lets your see your wife more. I'm 10 years you'll value that way more than $1 difference in compensation
charondaboatman
Why didn’t your current job offer you $26 to begin with? Sounds like the new job values your experience and skill more than your current one. Sounds like the new job offers more of what you want. Go get it.
DarthPiette
Yeah, the new job pay is paying me for my experience. I asked about the pay range for the position and they said it starts at $19. So to be getting $27 says they believe in what I have to offer right off the bat.
filiuspelei
Thats how the world works: they pay you as little as they think they can without you leaving. Best way to negotiate a raise is by having another offer.
charondaboatman
I’m aware, I’m posing the questions to OP to justify their taking the new job.
Ilikestealingdadjokes
Leave. Family time is always more important. Slso current company won't give you another raise ever again. New company is at starting pay- it will go up.
BindersOfWomen
leave. it'll be awkward if you stay
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
It’s a place of business. Awkward isn’t a big deal and would fade quickly if there at all.
MeekrabJones
Or they'll be in the first round of layoffs next time it comes up anyway because they dared to mention considering another offer elsewhere.
Viper3232
Brain drain is detrimental to a company. The employees with significant institutional knowledge are usually kept around in order to preserve the core functions of the business.
MeekrabJones
And there are a ton of companies who either don't realize that fact or they think saving a couple bucks an hour is more worthwhile. They step over dollars for cents.
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
No, they clearly value this employee. Others would likely go first. The majority of the time, a company wouldn’t match the new pay rate and would simply let the employee walk.
MeekrabJones
They didn't even match the new pay rate.
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
True, but pretty close
MeekrabJones
And it's an excuse to put them on the chopping block. They can offer a pay raise to keep them from leaving immediately, but it puts a target on their back. Now that the employer knows they might leave anyway, they bought themselves a bit of time to look for a replacement. One that can be paid at a lower rate that's more in line with what the other employees are making.
funone77
Ask for 30 and when they agree leave anyways.
Viper3232
Cool, now you have burned a bridge forever. Knowing people is the best way to advance your career. Negotiate for yourself and assert your value.
funone77
Congrats, you're a cog in the machine. Have fun working until you die. Btw, i would be burning the bridge of a few assholes while becoming a fucking legend and example to others.
Viper3232
What a weird response. You dont have to be a dick intentionally to avoid being a cog in a machine. OP evaluated their worth, got a raise, and their company countered. OP can now choose to accept it or counter it. Nobody HAS to be an asshole here. If you live your life trying to piss people off to 'be a legend', then you're the one working hard.
funone77
Lol. You sound like management or their chronie.
Viper3232
And you sound like someone who just wants to be mad all the time. I'm going to forget you, you're gonna move on to bitching at someone else
ihaveamonsteraddiction
Leave. A company that "sees" your value only as you're on your way out the door is NOT the company you want to work for.
fukuiwontdowhatutellme
This!!
nutbynature
Also work for the company with a union
xj4low
Sounds like your current co is happy to underpay people until they get a better offer then they can find the money. More time with the wife would be a big positive too. Are you currently in a union? or would it just be the next job? Union could mean better job security along with other perks.
Ximinipot
This. 1,000% this.
RandyRandalman
Yup, they didn't even match it much less go over. It was a literal OBO deal to them
Dayn55
This
FegNiwtons
That's a bingo
AnarchX1
Seriously. If it was more money and kept you working the same shift as your wife, maybe but probably still no. They had the money but chose to under pay you. Fuck'em
readbackmonkey
THIS - any company that will only give you a raise once you leave is not one you want to work for; you'll have to threaten to leave every time, and they'll eventually resent you for it, and as you get older, it will be harder and harder to leave.
sortofkindamadbutnotreally
This. Also as a married fella myself, time with wifey is time well spent.
Blackthorn74
Worked high up in one of the largest companies. Listen very clearly. They do not care about you even a little bit. Never stay put - no matter how happy you are try and find a higher paying job every 1 1/2 - 2 years. Companies never pay for the experience you have earned!
hipifreq
This EXACTLY. Loyalty buys you nothing. A company will always pay twice as much to high someone new than they will pay to keep someone good. Never makes sense to me, but sure does keep management busy hiring and training as they churn through people
HarryPotter918
Leave. As fast as you can. Your value is intrinsic to you. A company that refuses to value you except when they have no choice is not worth your time.
wodansring
THIS
yuugian
They saw your value, knew exactly what you brought. They didn't underestimate what you were worth, they underestimated what it would take to keep you. The good news for them is they only have to pay that $26 until they get your replacement
zafner
Yeah this is a huge red flag
syoebiusprime
This
drinkthederpentine
This is almost every company. Even legendary tech companies that used to pamper employees are now doing layoffs.
dakonsept
Seconded on leave. They've already started hunting to replace you with a cheaper option. This is just so that they don't lose any work from the window between your departure and when they find someone else. Companies bitterly remember when employees try to get hikes like this, and when they find someone willing to work on the cheap, you'll mysteriously find yourself getting negative performance reviews, and harassment from management.
iamnoobplzhelp
So much this. There's many reasons not to accept this type of counter offer. It creates resentment and they'll expect you to do more, even if you're being paid closer to what you should be making for your current work.
Viper3232
This sounds like a good theory, but its not really the case in practice. Employees have a lot of knowledge and practices that take years to train, and they are willing to pay to retain it.
hipifreq
Not in my decades of experience. I've seen so many good employees leave for pay raises with the company happily shelling out huge amounts to advertise, interview, and train new people rather than shell out a little for retention
IAmTheBadW01f
A green flag I got at my current job was when they asked me what salary I was looking for and I told them they came back with "this position pays more than that" and paid me what they were planning on paying, rather than what I thought to ask for. No job is perfect, but some are definitely better than others.
Drewcifer70
Yep. I asked for a certain amount and was pleasantly surprised when they offered more than I asked for.
Jatenffxiv
Agreed, leave, they only see your value when they're about to lose you. Fuck em. They're trying to pay you as little as they can get away with.
Sanguinius4893
As a manager, I want all of my employees to make more money. But so does every other manager. An employee threatening to leave because of another offer gives me the leverage I need to make it happen with my director and the vp's.
BoogaYooga
But if it needs that then they could soon be telling you to lay off the more expensive staff and hire cheaper people.
Sanguinius4893
Definitely true in a lot of industries. In mine (engineering consulting) it takes us 5+ years to train up a junior eng. fresh out of school. You don't let them walk after investing that much time and money.
BoogaYooga
I see. That's a very valid point. Sometimes we miss a lot of nuance and specifics in these short internet exchanges, thanks for clarifying.
pfunk81
Disagree, only because this person should fully evaluate their decision first. There are unknowns with the new job - could be walking into a toxic work environment or other issues. Could be a much longer/more expensive commute. The job they are leaving may have not paid well but the work environment was decent. We shouldn't make a recommendation based on our limited information regarding THEIR decision.
BoogaYooga
They posted that to a social media website with the ending sentence 'I don't know what to do here'. It's signaling for people to give their pieces of advice. Of course they don't need to follow it, but again they didn't need to have posted this here in the first place.
ChickenDominator
Sounds like something an EvilCorp employee would say
pfunk81
Frick. I've been outed!
FreeDadvice
And the only reason that other company values their workers at a higher rate is because of those union dues.
FreeDadvice
Only pointing this out to say that union dues should not be considered a negative on this consideration.
BoogaYooga
It can be somewhat like an insurance you pay to prevent worsening job conditions
AwesomeName
Also: they are already looking for a replacement now. That you will have to train.
youlovemeyouhateme
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
A replacement that they will be paying $17 an hour, probably.
Spiderbutts
Yes. I hope OP sees this but they will pay you to stay, search for someone cheaper, and lay.you off. NEVER stay for a counter offer. It's a trap. Go. Go to the better job.
Myrddin251
100% this. Leave and let them deal with it
Caboune
But that is every company ever. @op has to work somewhere, no?
HopelessNecr0mantic
They gave them a shitty raise, then only offered an acceptable number after the threat of losing them. They don't actually want to pay that amount, they communicated that. The purpose of the counter offer is to keep them in place until they can replace them with a more palatable salary.
alexstamat
Yup and since the new company is willing to start paying at that higher pay They will be more likely to raise it more later.
Bigbadtacomuncher
I'm your employer, I give you the same raise as the whole company gets. You come back and tell me you found a job that pays 20% more. Your really good at your job so obviously I'm gonna match their offer. It's literally impossible for me as an employer to know exactly what you are worth unless you go out and get other offers.
Jatenffxiv
Maybe you can pay your workers a fucking livable wage.
HopelessNecr0mantic
What you think u said: I pay fair cuz people get the same. What you actually said: I systematically underpay my employees until I am forced to do otherwise.
Bigbadtacomuncher
I dont know what you mean when you say underpay. I think you may be saying that the company should put all it's earnings into employee salaries. This is not very longterm thinking though, because if we get one bad quarter I will have to lower your wage or outright fire you or the company goes under. The company always have to make profit, but if the company makes profit the employees are underpaid? Idk, maybe I misunderstood you.
Badprenup
You can do what my boss did, do an industry analysis and see if you are paying your employees comparably to similar positions in the same/similar industry. He did that for me and I got like a $25k salary bump from it. He had since moved on to another company but I'll find out this week if I be offered a job at his current company for an additional $20k increase.
THAT'S how you be a good boss
gtotherizzle
All companies are like that
pinknightmare
Unions can help prevent that.
gtotherizzle
Lol!
gtotherizzle
You can't unionize a small business. And believe me you can't even mention a union in a not-for-profit....workers will laugh in your face. I'm no longer against the artificial stigma against unions driven into the minds of Gen-X through Millennials....but there is no chance to form them where it's needed
gtotherizzle
Edit: the stigma was not "through" millennials, i meant genX-Millennials
vegivamp
Bullshit. Form the big ones, and the small businesses will have no choice but to match pay or they don't be able to find and keep people.
Again, this is an "unsolvable problem" that barely exists outside of the US.