AllAnusMorissette
109863
2649
45
Raanan Hershberg
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ucbzcgLCX/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Jan 8, 2024 1:47 PM
AllAnusMorissette
109863
2649
45
Raanan Hershberg
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1ucbzcgLCX/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
themobileappisbroken
wseslar
fatguyinnalittlecoat
LincLoud
Not real tangential to the topic but I don't get why Jimmy Fallon has a career. He doesn't seem funny, he often looks right down the barrel of the camera lens, regularly laughs during line readings, he seems to break every rule of acting and yet retains a functioning, even marginally successful career.
Tumescentpie
He is clearly funny. Maybe not your taste, but he is a comedian that millions of people find funny. I'm addition to that he isna great hype man. I hope I don't break your mind here. But late night talk shows are commercials for various entertainment industries. Which works well for a guy so good at making whoever he's standing next to look good. SNL is also partially a commercial. The guest star isn't always an actor and Fallon fucking up makes them look better.
getyourfruitoffmeyoudamndirtygrapes
That was it? That's the punchline? Come on dude you could do better than that low hanging fruit.
B99Reactions
Low hanging fruit are all the tiktoks that think theyre OC
getyourfruitoffmeyoudamndirtygrapes
True, but that doesn't make this bit any funnier.
squishybaker
15 years ago was like 1995 right?
TheWorldNeedsMoreNiceThings
I remember just getting really excited by the new Star Wars prequels and that was right around 15 years ago, I'm pretty sure.
DCPrime
No…I think 1995 was only 10 yrs. ago, but I get why you’d make that mistake.
MartinStevel
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/09/chris-rock-jimmy-fallon-blackface
taez555
It's refreshing to know we're not doing this anymore.
damogen
Agreed, but this is also not what Jimmy Fallon did.
Niagaran
"The Black and White Minstrel Show" ran on the BBC until ***1978***.
ValamirCleaver
https://youtu.be/VmqI8wO8bbs
melmboundanddown
Haha
MeatPopsicleMultiPass
royrogersdoublerbarburger
I loved this movie so much. Jay Baruchel doesn't get enough credit holding his own next to RDJ.
VincitQuiSeVincit
TheOlympusKing
There is a difference between a joke and an attack though. White Chicks... funny. Tropic Thunder... funny. People being offended for someone else... fuck outa here
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Obviously blackface is a no, but I’m legitimately wondering if it’s still blackface if you’re imitating a specific person.
DaMummy
The whole point that he's making is that it will be, and this is why you don't berate someone for doing something decades ago. When Asian people start to have a fit over all the anime cosplay, it will be clearer to people.
thedudeman519
You do know that not every anime character is Asian right?
StarryPlough
There is an obvious difference between racist blackface and a lot of things people label "blackface"
korndogg83
TheWorldNeedsMoreNiceThings
When you're not the race being affected by it, perhaps.
StarryPlough
Yes that is largely my point. Blackface is a racist caricature of black people, not merely wearing make up to look like a specific person. While the latter might be misguided and usually quite strange, it is not "affecting" any race.
skellumqt
Both are blackface, and the latter still has an effect. A different effect, yes, but there's a reason you're calling it misguided/strange. It's not acceptable.
thedudeman519
Painting your face to be black is , in fact, black face. It's in the name.
StarryPlough
What an embarrassing grasp of language
thedudeman519
"Blackface is the practice of non-black performers using burnt cork or theatrical makeup to portray a caricature of black people on stage or in entertainment " By doing what?
Tumescentpie
You understand why it is demonized though right?
StarryPlough
Yes I am the one explaining why
yifin
I didn't want him fired for that alone, I wanted him fired for not knowing how to do comedy and what isn't funny. The sketch was a good indicator he never knew, taxi was another example
Niagaran
This just leaves me with the feeling that this guy has done blackface and is setting himself up for forgiveness
AtmaDarkwolf
In 15 years, when blue people come visit from the stars, avatar will *BTW NOT THE AIRBENDER SERIES* be a big racist thing :P
LaronX
Not gonna lie they had us on the first half
dingybasement350
And here I was thinking he should just be canceled for being an no talent hack that still looks like a teenager in his first school play after being on TV for over 20 years.
FractalB
Zega000
rbudrick
He was a dude, pretending to be another dude.
hotdoginathermos
DameDePiques
I wish for a world where it would be ok to blackface (or to whiteface for black people) and no one would find it more hurtful than putting on a blond whig to impersonate Marylin Monroe, because no one would care about race, and skin color would be just a physical attribute like any other, like size, or hair color, or ass thickness,or knobbly knees.
[deleted]
[deleted]
macdjord
Unfortunately, no, it is not. Any usage of blackface makeup by a white person is widely treated as inherently racist irrespective of content.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Niagaran
You and your friends do blackface for each other? AND you didn't know that it was bad???
Freestila
Thanks. Maybe it's because i'm from a different country with a low percentage of PoC, but this was not real a problem here. We had / have this for either kids or adults doing this as a costume, e.g. on mardy grass (which is big at least in my region) or in jaunary when kids come as the three wise man / three kings. Nowadays it is not common anymore, along with some words completely vanishing (e.g. we had a sweet called something like negro kiss) or some books getting rewritten.
StevieTheAussie
Tbh, I’m not even sure where the insult is meant to be coming from regarding blackface; or how it’s perceived as an insult.
I don’t really get how it’s any different between dressing up in any other costume, regardless of your ethnicity or race, as long as it’s not done with malice or with intent to offend or harm.
nicky512
White people made that world non-existent with hundreds of years of slavery, and from that time, until this very day, with racism. It might not be as big a deal if racism didn’t exist this very day. It does. Where people say, “racism is bad” and other people go, “well…” Where people say, “that’s a racist stereotype” and people say, “you’re being really sensitive.” There is no world where white people didn’t dominate all land on earth and claim superiority based on their appearance. So, /1
nicky512
based on the history, it’s still racist to do blackface. Historically, it’s racist. If you don’t like censored comedy, or not being able to say whatever you want, or wear whatever you want. Blame racists. Those are the assholes who inadvertently created censorship. We don’t live in an equal world. …but, I’ll keep censoring myself if it means my neighbors/family can feel like fucking human beings. And if white face doesn’t offend you it’s because there isn’t historical context behind it. /2
TheWorldNeedsMoreNiceThings
Everyone wishes for a world where problems are not problems, but we live in a world where problems are problems and we cannot just pretend that they are not.
dirque
Yes, we can! You are underes
dirque
underestimating our ability to ignore reality!
[darn rented fingers]
AbsoluteThunderMuppet
Rev. Dr. King?
MeatPopsicleMultiPass
cousteau
I recently saw a Santa with whiteface and let me tell you this, it was creepy af
PourMeAPuppersPlease
You can blame centuries of racism for that
joshuasplinth
Yea, I often wonder who the first awful person was. Like, was it kind of like the first animal to step onto land? The opening of 2001: A Space Odyssey, after the skull crackin’ scene, how long did it take before one of the monkeys beat up on another monkey?
titoitoi
Mmm thickness
ShaggyQueen
I do like thicc asses tho
Strategicgnomer
I don't think you know the history here. Basically "blackface" started with so called minstrel shows, where white men would put coal black on their face and draw in big red lips, and pretend to be stupid, in order to imply that all black people were incredibly dumb and ugly. It was a very popular genre of comedy show and it was horrible. There was no such thing as "whiteface" and I would not be offended by it. No one would, whites are the race with most power, punching up is fair play. Not that
Strategicgnomer
Racism is acceptable, but there is no threat to whites by being made fun of, because white people hold power. That's why the movie White Girls was not even blinked at, nor would it be today. Putting on white makeup does not come with a long history of oppression, bullying, murders, othering and all the other baggage of American historical treatment of BIPOC people.
OnyxTurret
I hope that we can move towards treating color, gender, and sexuality the way we treat hair. Hair color stereotypes used to be significant. Now, people can cut, dye, do whatever. If someone treated another badly because they had short hair, we'd say they were ridiculous. "Don't let redheads read to our children" "Are you nuts?"
"I do like them because they are naturally brunette, but now I can't tell if they are brunette or blonde and it makes me uncomfortable." "You're absurd."
thedudeman519
"Now, people can cut, dye, do whatever." Somewhat. Far right CHUDS sure love clinging to that "Blue hair brigade" bullshit though. Back in my day that just referred to all the old ladies at the slot machines!
OnyxTurret
Well, CHUDS gonna CHUD.
Aaronyuri
It still surprises me how often Americans say "white people" or "X people". I have always found that kind of language to be dividing and really doesn't help the us/them mindset. People are just people. We are homo sapiens, no matter what our physical attributes may be. The societal concept of race is stupid.
DameDePiques
This. The best example I can come up with is Trevor Noah's joke about the French Football Team and his reaction to the French Ambassador's response to that joke. I was watching him and wondering "how can he so completely miss the ambassador's point?" But the thing is, Trevor comes from two horribly segregationist cultures (South Africa and the US) and he simply CANNOT ignore race like Europeans do.
DameDePiques
It's a form of interiorized racism, not as in "thinking some races are superior to others" but as "always seing things through the prism of race". I don't blame him or others in his position (I understand where it comes from), but it's still very disturbing for the rest of the world.
xovoxovox
He shouldn't be fired for that. He should be fired for being an unfunny sycophantic suckup to his b-tier guests and gets into NFT scams with them. And also for taking the job after conan.
noReallyIamPrincessBob
It couldn’t have been said by Chris Rock because there was no swearing.
certainlynotaserialkiller
Dont tell him about the dutch and their weird ass traditions around that spanish santa
Wolfos
There's some holdouts but it mostly doesn't involve blackface anymore.
TomBrokaw
[paperboi has left the building]
thedudeman519
IS this a reference to Atlanta? I haven't seen the show in a while. Gotta catch up
TomBrokaw
Yes it is! I really enjoyed having watched that show. Didn't always enjoy it in the moment, but it is quite impactufl
SlutAtNight
Black Pete is Santa’s slave
Yupurineutah
Also his disciplinarian.
QuamvisSintSubAqua
Don't tell them about Austria/South of Germany and our epiphany custom "Sternsingen", where the three wise men and the star of Bethlehem come to each house to sing carols. Did I mention that each symbolises a continent? Caspar from Africa, Melchior from Europe, Balthazar from Asia. Guess which one uses black makeup?
Ngalamashterino
Belgians keeping quiet in the corner...
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
"Six to eight black men" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIXscGcdGyk
NeedtofavouritetheseWallpapers
Suriname as well,heinous traditions.
Skullcleaver
Dutchman here, and I fully agree that it is, in fact, a weird-ass tradition. Thankfully we're seeing incremental changes, but there's certain groups that want to cling to their "Zwarte Pieten", because that's how they experienced Sinterklaas when they were little. None of it makes a lick of sense to begin with, so trying to defend this bullshit is, frankly, ridiculous.
AwwWrecker
There was also that whole thing over Dutch Hershey's Kisses...
Skullcleaver
Yup, which was, thankfully, also changed.
AwwWrecker
It was indeed, but not without the oddest backlash and graffiti.
Magnasplit
Standing in the Schipol train station a December in 2013 and seeing Zwarte Pieten for the first time never having heard about it literally left med dumb struck. I remember just standing ther watching three young women in blackface elf costumes running around while I just murmured "what the fuck" under my breath ( or rather the Norwegian equivalent) Whatever the background, it is really our of touch with the rest of Europe.
certainlynotaserialkiller
as someone from the outside it seems more like just a kids oriented version of xmas with dudes handing out candy. i dont dismiss the racist element of the blackface stuff but it does not seem with racism in mind. its not like those KKK dumbasses wearing hoods and burning crosses. RDJ pulled it off in thropic thunder without the racist angle, still looking for someone to manage wearing a white hood while burning a cross and argue its not racist.
sangman
Personally my take on it is that people who don't see anything racist about Zwarte Piet aren't necessarily racist, but people who refuse to even consider much less understand that there is a part of the population that does often are. Thankfully in Flanders we've compromised with that roetpiet stuff and it doesn't look like anyone cares too much
justbubbles
Let me show you part of the st Nicholas treats we got at work last December. We are NOT at all done with this in Flanders....
QuamvisSintSubAqua
Mhm Chocolate! /J
Klisteration
I'm sure I'll be pilloried, but I think there's a difference here. Portraying a SPECIFIC black person is different than the racist who does it to denigrate ALL black people.
fitgirl1
So if you made fun of a specific 'little person' or a specific mentally challenged person, you think that would be OK? When thinking of it in this context, you see it's not ok because historically, it's punching down and even though that specific person might be doing OK through the lens of current societal standards it's a fine line to tread, and better off not treading that way at all.
damogen
I don't agree. If we aren't allowed to make fun of short people, mentally challenged or black people then they are different from the rest of us. Then they are not our equals. The important part is HOW you make fun of them. Personally i don't find it to be a "fine line to tread", I find it pretty easy to tell if someone is poking good natured fun at someone, or if they are viciously mocking them.
skellumqt
It's different, but it's still harmful and people should know better. Even back then. It's not ok to use blackface, period. This is not hard.
thedudeman519
Right? I only make fun of individual mentally challenged people. Not the whole group!
ClockworkRepairDroid
I was 17, 15 years ago. Black face was not.ok. Nobody thought it was except for the old people. I'm seeing a pattern.
thedudeman519
Lots of them found there way here apparently.
westPAguy
Chris Rock got big making fun of white people. I still think he's funny but he ain't got a leg to stand on when it comes to race jokes.
Tumescentpie
Punching up and punching down are different. Maybe if you learned a bit more about comedy and racism and racism in comedy you'd not allowed your privilege to cloud your judgement
Nichols3
Chris Rock came out defending Fallon not against him, but he definitely got big on race jokes in general, including black people, not just white ones.
crushingbore
Chris Rock got big making fun of black people. Black People vs N****s is the stand-up bit that propelled him to superstardom.
thedudeman519
Which is probably why Chris Rock was pragmatic about the situation.
thedudeman519
Lots of CHUD outing themselves on here. It's nice.
Degarafarat
Should I also be up in arms against clowns and mimes because the use "whiteface"?
pudaheh
If you want people to think you're a moron, sure. Go for it.
PourMeAPuppersPlease
Are you saying that 'whiteface' is the same as 'blackface' ?
Degarafarat
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)
Raikupath
Can't even fucking read his own source.
PourMeAPuppersPlease
PourMeAPuppersPlease
Lol, I think you need to read the 'comparison to blackface' section in the link you posted
thedudeman519
Did you mean to link a different page? That one says theyre not the same or comparable.
Anonaru
You realize that the thing you linked specifically differentiates them...right?
dislurkerdude
I was around 15yrs ago it was not ok then to do black face and kinda weird that so many affluent whites think otherwise
irrational1618
This video was actually taken 10 years ago, so it was actually 25 years ago.
IMTHEONEWHOSTOLEALLOFTHECOOKIESFROMTHECOOKIEJAR
2009 was only 5 years ago though
NineByNine
thedudeman519
Now THAT'S comedy
MrRareza
Google Ted Dansen Blackface. It wasn't ok, way back then, either. He did it for Whoopie Goldberg lol.
KillingTlme
There's a huge difference between an impersonation with makeup on and black face.
jwillr86
Well 15 years ago was all the way back in 195*....... oh that fucking 2009. Yeah it wasn't ok.
ADHDinkubus
My favorite justification for black face that I've heard in the last few years is "well why come they get to dye their hair white colors"
Holy shit.
DoorTable
Part of me thinks it was, but then I calculate what year it was 15 years ago and realize it wasn't 1985... :/
thedudeman519
Yea the faction Degeneration X in WWF/E had some controversy back then because of this bit. And people are pretending like it wasn't made a big deal of back then either . Like, nah dude, you might not know people that thought it was fucked up. But people thought it was fucked up.
weerdo
But what about Eddie Murphy playing a Jewish old man?
thedudeman519
What about it ?
Spatulor
It wasn't okay. It was easier to get away with.
aviselafin211
Canada's Prime Minister pulled off multiple blackface skits in his twenties and thirties. All Justin Trudeau had to do was apologize. Because many Canadians and all our media worship at his feet he escaped relatively unharmed.
justiPumpkinTaker
Not only that, but that he couldn't remember how many times he done it. There are pictures and videos from at least three separate incidents.
Nichols3
Well I definitely think it comes down to intent. Looking at the actual skit, it's not a caricature of black people, it's a low budget costume of Chris Rock, and a really good impression of Chris Rock's stand up. https://youtu.be/YvCFNWNvgjo?si=2Duh--8BJf9GOYZd
I don't think it was intended to offend, but to make use of a talent that otherwise wouldn't be able to be shown, in a similar vein to RDJ in Tropic Thunder.
Imalwaysready
Nah...intent only matters to a point and is not a free pass. And when black people spend 50 years going "blackface is INHERENTLY offensive!" you don't get to use blackface then go "Ahh, but you see, my *intent* was NOT to offend! I had a good impression, so I was wearing blackface in 'the good way.'" The difference in Tropic Thunder, and the one potentially acceptable use, is social commentary and critique--particularly OF blackface and other such techniques themselves. And even then, it's iffy.
HotSauceOnMyButthole
Agreed. Material impacts matter. Some people’s safety is impacted by how media builds narratives in people’s heads
muchLongerUsername
I hadn't seen the sketch, but I can't disagree. That's not blackface, that's brown makeup and a spot-on impression of the individual being portrayed.
JustUsLeagueUnlimited
The intent of an impersonation of an individual is not the same as the caricature of an entire race. This we are on the same page. However, ask a lot of performers in the 1940s if blackface was intended to offend they'd tell you they are just entertaining. Or that it's not a caricature of an entire race, more a subset. Doesn't make it hurt any less
Darthnarciss
There is a major difference between "blackface", and wearing makeup to look like someone of a different ethnicity. "Blackface" is a specific caricature, over emphasing aspects such as lips and if not wearing a hat, hair. Wearing makeup to look like someone...is wearing makeup to look like someone.
rareunicornmeat
Was Tim Meadows sick that week?
AMagicalOportunity
*shurgs* they grew up when it was okay, they are meeting people that now think otherwise.
[deleted]
[deleted]
thedudeman519
Semantic change is a form of language change regarding the evolution of word usage—usually to the point that the modern meaning is radically different from the original usage. In diachronic (or historical) linguistics, semantic change is a change in one of the meanings of a word. The study of semantic change can be seen as part of etymology, onomasiology, semasiology, and semantics.
AwwWrecker
Omg, thanks time traveller who clearly understands everything. So smart.
dingybasement350
In about 500 years no one will be left alive to give a shit.
khora
There will be a class on why all non-white people were removed from brands and packaging.
thedudeman519
Land O Lakes , Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's are the only things that come to mind. Are there others ?
WhyDontYouMakeMe
Because when they were kids, they saw increbly stupid shit like John Wayne playing Genghis Khan in the movies
doodlydoofus
Hey on the bright side, the role of Genghis Khan is what killed him.
Imalwaysready
Gotta admit, he nailed that Mongolian drawl...
Jonesso
I've heard it's particularly ok if a black person does white face while you do black face right next to each other as a sign of mutual disrespect
thedudeman519
Close enough
DrDred
Yes also social media wasn't being used as much as it as now. People were pissed like me but really didn't have voice.
KillingTlme
Still waiting for the apology for the movie White Chicks. Not because of the White Face, but because the movie sucked so bad.
armorgamesmfa
It is my Nephew (10 year old) new favorite movie. He watches it every day.
spacepuppiesweed
How dare you!
TheyCallMeDrFeelGood
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Not mocking
thedudeman519
Oh it was mocking. But it was mocking method actors. And sure enough, RDJ didn't break character even in the DVD commentary. And it definitely seemed like the cast had had enough by then lmao
LerryV2
WHite face bad. Cancel them too. Cancel anyone who has put sunscreen on and change the hue of their skin slightly at all. Cancel people who wear makeup for changing misrepresenting who they are. CANCEL THE PLANET
Bsoavenger
LarvaLamp
LerryV2
I guess people here are too sensitive to joke about things. I guess I need ot be canceled for making light of something. Off to the cliff edge I go
LarvaLamp
I'm not sure you know what "cancelled" means.
thedudeman519
SuperRockinMrMagic
It was a bad movie I quite enjoyed. And I learned about nicoise salad
ClownishAntics
White chicks was a cool babbling brook on a warm summers day compared to Little Man
thedudeman519
Now Senseless? That is a funny fuckin movie.
KawhiLeonardIsSenpai
Terry Crews should have won an Oscar for carrying that movie on his ripped back
minus0
Did you not read the instructions? You were supposed to be baked out of your mind when you watched it
valkyriepalmtree
But it did give us Terry Crews singing "A Thousand Miles".
rareunicornmeat
I feel like we could have gotten this eventually, without the other.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
paperfanman
And the glowstick whistle dance
Isthe4thtimethecharm
I didn't care for Terry crews at first. But I think I didn't like him because that movie left such a bad taste in my mouth. Had a girlfriend that loved it and watched it too much.
Imalwaysready
It's truly been debatable since at least the 60s, but was pretty widely accepted through the 80s. It feels like the mid-90s is when it started to change and has pretty much been understood as largely unacceptable in any year starting with a 2. There have been a few cases in the last 20 years when it has been done in a context of social commentary and critique with understanding of what it represented while doing it that may be excusable, but very few, and Fallon's is certainly not in that group.
Darthnarciss
I will not argue the validity of Fallon's depiction, or any social commentary or lack thereof. But I will stand by the fact that there is a difference between blackface and wearing makeup to look like someone of a different ethnicity.
thedudeman519
Like Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's?
Darthnarciss
No. That is very obviously yellowface (I'm not a fan of that phrase but I couldn't find a different one). As it is a direct ethnic swap of blackface, it over exaggerates stereotypical features of a different ethnicity. That is -NOT- the same thing as someone putting on some makeup and a beard to look like someone else.
ZuluAssault9
White people do blackface for comedy and everyone complains but i dont see droves of people trying to get the movie WHITE CHICKS who is 2 black guys basicly in drag as 2 white women... double standards for everyone
thedudeman519
Man that line was played out when the movie was released. You need new material
timichanga
The difference is power. Someone in power making fun of someone who is marginalized is bullying and wrong, someone who is marginalized making fun of those with power is not.
Also the movie White Chicks sucks.
damogen
Chris Rock is not marginalized.
technofiend
Right? I mean Ted Dansen got cancelled way more than 15 years ago for his blackface shenanigans with Whoopi Goldberg, didn't he?
thedudeman519
Exactly! He hasn't had a single successful show since then. Let alone 2 !
damogen
At some point, when equality is good enough, making fun of someone won't be an issue, regardless of whether skin colour is part of the joke. I think USA was getting close to that point in the 00's. But racial tensions have gotten worse since then, so now the range of what is acceptable comedy is narrowing again.
ShiaIabeouf
Do not time travel back 5 years and visit the Netherlands around december..
Imalwaysready
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPfg20k5TE8
Salpinus
You mean black Peter? The kid who goes down the chimney to deliver Santa's presents and is thus black? Is that what you're going after? Cause that's never been about blackface
thedudeman519
Right? That's why the clothes are clean and their .....hair changes texture ....
KadJauTadJau
But isn’t it only his face that’s black and his clothes are not? Seems to suggest it’s not about a chimney
thedudeman519
Clothes are clean and they put on curly haired wigs. Pretty apparent really.
astrangehop
Aren't they phasing g it out though specifically because it's adjacent?
Salpinus
Can't say if they're doing it now, but previously been staunch in supporting what they've done for hundreds of years with it being totally unrelated to blackface. It's like asking Hindus to not draw sun crosses if they live in Europe.
thedudeman519
You thinka Hindu person who lives in Germany would really be that obtuse as to the reasons why such iconography is not allowed ?
ShiaIabeouf
yes they are. Its just blackface. Takes a lot of mental gymnastics to justify it. This coming from somebody who played black pete for years
tarnok
The only person who's gotten away with it is RDJ and it's because it was a 2x meta satirical look at a) the wrongness of blackface and Hollywoods old acceptance of it. And b) method actors in General going all the way and not breaking character.
When Jimmy did blackface he wasn't doing it as a social commentary. He was actively trying to make fun of a real person (Chris rock) and instead of mocking Chris words or character, he mocked his blackness.
Wraid
proracing53
aerodynamit3
RunanD
I know this isn't the point, but I want to say that in every meaningful way Fallon has, in fact, gotten away with it.
Most celebrities did and have.
Chastisement from the public, only for the public to turn around and continue to support the person monetarily and socially - usually not requiring any serious seeking of absolution and restitution - is only marginally more useful than a black square in your insta profile.
Cancel culture is actually an exceedingly rare phenomenon for the wealthy
sturmhauke
I've heard mixed responses from black people about RDJ's character. One guy I used to work with thought it was hilarious and used it as his profile pic for a while. Some random online commenter thought it was worthless trash and offensive. While I believe she actually did watch the movie (unlike any number of other commenters out there who are clearly just making shit up for views), I also think she went in with preconceived biases and didn't really catch the satirical aspects.
Srcsqwrn
Even the RDJ thing is contentious.
thedudeman519
Can't be that contentious. He got an Oscar for it.
Srcsqwrn
That doesn't really say much, I feel. Given that black people don't quite have control over that.
thedudeman519
A fair point.
HotSauceOnMyButthole
Eh, I still feel like it’s bad. Hear me out. If the ultimate point of its use is to critique it as bad, then why do the bad thing at all? If punching someone in the face is bad, why punch someone just to demonstrate the point
Arcanum3000
I think you'd have a stronger point if it was just about blackface, but in actuality it was mocking Hollywood's very-current-at-the-time practice of casting white actors as nonwhite characters. It used an extreme example that's widely recognized as bad to shine a light on a current Hollywood practice that's similarly bad, but not as widely recognized as such. I don't think an alternative approach would've had the same impact.
HotSauceOnMyButthole
There are other ways of doing that though. SNL makes fun of Collin for SarJo’s miscasting all the time. And it works well
KaptainObveeus
The only reason blackface is offensive is because of racism. Nobody loses their mind when a man plays a women or vice versa. It's acting, if they are supposed to play a black character they need to be painted black as part of the costume. Yes you could cast a black person and I would do that because it just seems much simpler but say you had a specific actor in mind and you felt he was perfect for the role, you would want to hire him and put the costume on.
KingXizor
When the show/actors are parodying blackface itself might just be the only time it's in the clear, which is why I'm still so pissed at hulu for pulling the blackface episodes of Always Sunny! Goddammit, they were making fun of the gang(Mac and Dee) for being in blackface! And the juggalo kid was just a cherry on top.
lorakaine
I didn't realize they pulled those episodes. That seems silly to me in a show where literally everything they do is offensive (usually in a funny way).
BisAndThighHighs
It was when BLM was everywhere after George Floyd, everyone preemptively pulled them just in case they got shit. No one actually said anything about them though.
starrs3
Im also kind of mad they removed the DnD episode from hulu when Cheng was playing a dark elf. It was obviously making fun of people who do black face and making them look stupid and racist.
Arcanum3000
RDJ's part in Tropic Thunder also wasn't just about blackface specifically. It was mocking Hollywood's habit of casting white actors as nonwhite characters.
damogen
I don't think it's just that. I think racial tensions were at an all time low in the 00's, before Obama and Trump. So the range of what was considered good natured skin-colour based humour was wider. Now the racial tensions have gotten worse, so the range of what is acceptable has narrowed again. And I'm not sure even Tropic Thunder would be acceptable if it came out today.
mustardburp
In the black community, Ronald Regan is viewed as The Great White Devil. For us asians, it's Mickey Rooney. jk (but maybe not, fuck you Mr.Yunioshi).
phantomeye
On the other hand, Ben Stillers' character went the other way
thedudeman519
I'm a rooster illusion!
Jewdakris
You mean casting nerdy guys as action heroes like Paul Rudd and Kumail
thedudeman519
When have they been cast as action heroes?
Nichols3
https://youtu.be/YvCFNWNvgjo?si=2Duh--8BJf9GOYZd
I don't think he was mocking him at all, which is why this was defended by Chris Rock. Like most SNL skits, I don't think it's funny, but the impression of Chris Rock is pretty well spot on and matches his stand up routines very well.
whyaminotstudying
Funny thing, though. Jimmy Kimmel was on the screen for it, but there's a whole writers room that put that through, a makeup department that implemented it, and the producers and director who allowed it to happen. Also, 15 years ago was 2009, not 1959. This shit was very obviously in poor taste then to everyone.
damogen
segregation was ended in 1961... that's only 39 years before Jimmy Fallon did that skit. Keep that in mind when you say 15 years (actually 23) isn't a long time ago.
Nichols3
Not that it makes it any better, but the sketch was from 2000. It's very entertaining to me how many people talk about this without even doing basic google searches.
thedudeman519
They're basing the "15 years ago" off of the statement in the OP.
SmartAssX
It's not even black face.
sfrinlan
I don't think you have to do the exaggerated cartoon lips and stuff for it to count as blackface. Intentionally coloring the skin to look like black skin while trying to imitate a black person is blackface.
SmartAssX
Pretty sure you do. Unless we are calling all makeup ______face. Is tanning black face or Mexican face lol
chiefrunswithscissors
Yeah he's not doing a racist stereotype he's doing an impression of a real and very individual person. It's almost the opposite of black face
Ssigel
Then we have to be critical, I don't see how his makeup is mocking him for being black, it's really well done and reallist looking. It looks like a black person without ridiculizing the color of the skin.
You americans are weird.
tarnok
Question: would it have worked without the blackface makeup? Why does he need the makeup?
potshot
No it really wouldn't have. Part of it is the visual gag of looking like the person. Part of what makes the "Jim impersonates Dwight" bit from the Office so memorable is the visual mimicry. Now if blackface is considered off limits in all cases, fair enough, then that type of visual gags are off limits. But visual gags NEED the visual component.
Blacktusk
A contrasting event would have been Billy Crystal doing a routine as a "jazzman," where he did his best to emulate an older black gentleman without using blackface makeup. He did a great job, which is unfortunate because it was kinda screwed up and people were upset. I think it would have been fine if it was a short bit about a specific person, like impersonating Louis Armstrong, but an extended performance as "jazzman" just failed.
Blacktusk
Same with this. He could have done Chris Rock without makeup as part of a routine of impersonations, but when they started planning a whole bit with a white guy playing him it stops making sense, and using makeup to sell the idea was ill conceived to the extreme.
Nichols3
I think it would have been weird to have him come out, have him announced as Chris Rock and just be himself, yeah. Better certainly to have just not opened the can of worms, but they committed to the bit in the least offensive way that still made it work as an impression.
tarnok
It was still offensive and thoughtless at the time. if a joke or imitation cannot work without applying blackface then just don't do it. One could easily imitate Chris rock without the blackface and imo that would have been funnier. Chris is more than just his dark skin. Jimmy had everything else down pat, he absolutely did not need the black makeup
marsilies
Stephen Colbert's favorite bit on the Daily Show was when Al Sharpton didn't show up for an interview, and Stephen went on as Al Sharpton, no blackface, no impression, nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COPJK1i8q8M
Eldibs
Actually, I could see that being funny. Just have him with his normal appearance doing an impression of Chris Rock and nobody acknowledging his appearance.