I just don't get why so many Republican crybabies will oppose socialized medicine with their whole chest, while either a) going without insurance and setting up GoFundMe's when they get sick, or b) pay as much or more in premiums/deductibles/copays than they would in taxes.
The money we would spend on taxes would be less than what most of us spend on insurance, and we wouldn't have to still pay med bills after we paid insurance.
This is what the Democratic candidates should be saying. As opposed to donating billions of US tax money to Israel so THEY can have universal healthcare, free university education, and childcare for Israelis.
To make this a political or even partisan issue is evil. The problem is the current administration and it's opposition. The reason is the American voters who vote for them or don
It IS far left if you're standing on the extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme right, with Kiddy Diddler X-treme Drumpf
It's far left OF YOU, IF you're in that place. A person being frozen in ice doesn't make me more hot. I'm not far left, I'm just not extreme right wing. Being not extreme right wing doesn't make one far left, unless you're ignoring the actual scale and only referencing relative to an extreme, and only ridiculous extremists do that.
The definition of "far left" on US News media is going to fit whatever the status quo is in the USA, and also what the billionaire owners want to definition to be. There's also a lot of people who want the USA to do things differently, even if they are worse, just because they think we're special.
Some of the primary benefactors of 'Corporate Healthcare' are the same ones making the laws. Prying a dollar from the hands of a grifter is harder than wresting a bone from a starving mongrel. If you solicit or accept 'contributions from any lobbyist, you should be banned from voting for anything represented by that lobbyist. But guess who would have to pass that law?
Well, recent history showed the entire world that he's bored of peace. So, he starts a war. F*cks up world economy, not to mention all other *bad* side-effects.
Companies want to treat the population like a labor buffet. They want all the perks of overpopulation driving down wage negotiation power of employees, of having "employees on demand" to hire during booms and fire them during busts...but they don't want the "icky" stuff... Like helping to pay to support people during economic downturns to ensure labor pool is still healthy and sustained. They want it all to fall on people. But at the same time pay us so little we can't exist without a job.
IMO The best move that the democratic party has is the introduction of a state sponsored healthcare provider that you can contribute to using your paycheck as an alternative to healthcare, dental and vision providers. Target initially to those that will be most profitable (contribute more and use less), but reinvest 100% of the profits to widen the program to cover everybody. (The ethical way would be to cover those in need first, but that requires collecting taxes, and this method doesn't.)
The reason why this is better in America is that 1) This would be self-sufficient, 2) You could focus on quality first, 3) Users retain choice, and 4) It is not a tax.
Well, the ACA doesn't give me an option to sign up for public healthcare through my employer, does it? It's only that I have to have insurance, and that, if I can't afford it, the government will offer a way. ACA costs $120B annually. I'm trying to flip the coin: offer it for those can afford it and workers first. Make it profitable first. Then you broaden the program to include those that use it and need it more. That way, no tax needs to be dedicated to it if we can make it self sufficient.
How do you pay for it? Taxes. More taxes? No, current taxes. Where are we gonna find that money? The Pentagon. They fail to account for tens, and even hundreds of billion dollars every year. Whatever they can't account for, cut it out of their next year's budget. A couple hundred billion would gonna long way to cover universal health care...and free education...and affordable housing...and livable social security. Tac the rich and corporations to make up and shore up the rest.
Every publicly traded company who has employees that make less than 2x the FPL need to lose subsidies and be taxed. Looking at uou McDonalds and Walmart.
Their wages are subsidized by SNAP benefits and such, but that's less of a government subsidy and more of shitty business. But yes, tax them so they can make the decision to reinvest in their people.
If we collected something like 80% (I forget the actual number) of what Americans spend on health insurance premiums and paid it as tax, single payer healthcare would be paid for and Americans would have leftover money in their pockets.
I mean, yes, but I'd probably choose to characterize it as certain politicians promoting "we can't afford $250 for solar because there's no money" while also giving $300 to coal for the same capacity. Mine is not a perfect analogy.
Solar and wind make them madder than “socialllllisttttt/communisttt” programs. (Yeah, MAGA is sure that socialism and communism are exactly the same). I’ve seen them ranting, mad as hell over their neighbor’s having a couple solar panels. I don’t know what to do with people who are so hateful over absolutely everything that can make all of our lives better. Slapping them is illegal.
Having solar panels on your house is good capitalism, you could tell them. "Why let the sun's rays go to waste, when you can cash in? Money and power fall from the sky, and you would deny me? Begone, cuck of the authoritarian, and feel shame that you let the sun simply attack your house and *cost* you money."
"How do you pay for it?" Very simple. You take the money we already spend on healthcare and actually spend it on healthcare instead of on insurance company profits. The US spends more per capita on healthcare than other nations, and for that we get incomplete coverage and worse health outcomes than nations with universal healthcare. Raising taxes or cutting military spending are just boogeymen used to scare people about it.
The problem is that USians are so adverse to being taxed (for some weird holdover from Boston) thay they end up with the highest tax rates for the least amount of benefit, and for some reason, they like it that way. Could you imagine giving up 30% or more of your paycheck for literally no self benefit? I would gladly give up over half of my paycheck if it meant free/reasonable healthcare, police who don't want to kill me on sight, and reasonably priced necessities.
A cool. Another piece of shit that doesn’t live here blames the people. USians, btw, is the dumbest fucking term anyone has ever used to describe Americans.
In all honesty, they had a somewhat decent take. My thought is that we should just use Medicaid and Medicare to make Healthcare for universal everybody. We're already paying into it but we get no benefit unless we're unable to work for a long time. We could call it "Medicare For All" or "Universal Healthcare."
We’re on our way to electing the democratic socialists that will provide this. What pissed me off about the view from outside is that they don’t understand we’ve never been provided anyone between FDR, and Bernie Sanders to vote for that was fully on the side of common people, and improving their lives. They don’t understand the establishment. We’re not stupid. We’re owned by the smartest most entrenched best funded criminal monsters ever to govern.
eh it isnt even that, medicare is more expensive PER AMERICAN than any UHC system is for their citizens, but it has to pay INSANE prices for everything. At every single step of the way there's fucking retn seeking and gouging
It's the marketing companies do to push the idea that paying for private stuff is better. And yet companies want to pay so little while increasing prices of for-profit necessities that people sink into the hole. This makes for desperate workers that are easy to exploit. It's all by-design.
I'll say the same thing I say every time, it's the successful war on education. A cow stays in the field because it's too dumb to know it's being slaughtered.
I think part of the issue is the existing taxes aren't used well. Other countries with a similar effective tax rate do far more with their income than we do.
1. No, Americans do not like it that way. Every American hates the American health care system. 2. We aren't taxed anywhere near 30%. I'm a fairly high earner and my effective tax rate last year was 11.2%. No loopholes, just W2. 3. I too would gladly triple my tax rate to not ever have to worry about healthcare costs again. Unfortunately what's good for Americans is not good politics, yet. Way too much money spent in elections for positive outcomes for citizens to be a factor in any result.
The Boston Tea Party is a _great_ example of this mentality; people throw the 'taxation without representation' thing around wildly, but the reality was that the process England put in place would have _lowered_ the price of tea for the average consumer. But, the contract went exclusively to the East India Company, which ticked off local merchants. More directly, folks like Sam Adams and John Hancock made a pretty penny smuggling tea into the colonies, and the new system would have undercut
their business. It was another example where a wealthy minority convinced the average person that a policy that would undercut the minority's finances was a damning threat to the majorities liberties/rights/freedom. Another similar example I tend to point to was the Confederate slave owners convincing a large population of the south, who could barely afford shoes, that the North was coming to take their slaves.
Over half is crazy by any measure, unless you have a very high income. I'm a dane, and we are notorious for paying the most tax in the world or something, but the actual percentage I pay in tax, after deductions, is in the low 30's
When I lived in the US, I paid just over 30% income tax and let me tell you, we got absolutely shit for that. Still had to pay out of pocket for everything. I told my co-workers that if it was just short of a life ending emergency, put me on a plane back to Japan and I'd get it covered there. I could endure a 14 hour flight with a broken leg rather than put up with a bankrupt enducing medical bill.
BillDoubleu
Cut the War Department by 2/3.
Bigemedic
I just don't get why so many Republican crybabies will oppose socialized medicine with their whole chest, while either a) going without insurance and setting up GoFundMe's when they get sick, or b) pay as much or more in premiums/deductibles/copays than they would in taxes.
MaybeIllDisappear
The money we would spend on taxes would be less than what most of us spend on insurance, and we wouldn't have to still pay med bills after we paid insurance.
Hovencl00f
This is what the Democratic candidates should be saying. As opposed to donating billions of US tax money to Israel so THEY can have universal healthcare, free university education, and childcare for Israelis.
Thapoopthattookapee
To make this a political or even partisan issue is evil. The problem is the current administration and it's opposition. The reason is the American voters who vote for them or don
orp0piru
DiracsDelta
It’s wasn’t far left when FDR argued for it, and it’s not far left now.
battousai124
It IS far left if you're standing on the extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme extreme right, with Kiddy Diddler X-treme Drumpf
fubizdaddie
It's far left OF YOU, IF you're in that place. A person being frozen in ice doesn't make me more hot. I'm not far left, I'm just not extreme right wing. Being not extreme right wing doesn't make one far left, unless you're ignoring the actual scale and only referencing relative to an extreme, and only ridiculous extremists do that.
SchmotGuys
medimr
Leigh McGowan. PoliticsGirl on youtube.
ALpBeck
I’m a huge fan of
MadamPuddifoot
@op
HandoB4Javert
QuantumInc
The definition of "far left" on US News media is going to fit whatever the status quo is in the USA, and also what the billionaire owners want to definition to be. There's also a lot of people who want the USA to do things differently, even if they are worse, just because they think we're special.
Munchman347
Some of the primary benefactors of 'Corporate Healthcare' are the same ones making the laws. Prying a dollar from the hands of a grifter is harder than wresting a bone from a starving mongrel. If you solicit or accept 'contributions from any lobbyist, you should be banned from voting for anything represented by that lobbyist. But guess who would have to pass that law?
szpet627
https://imgur.com/BgOd7Ze.mp4
4Astaroth
Magats won't understand this.
19marcurious57
Well, recent history showed the entire world that he's bored of peace. So, he starts a war. F*cks up world economy, not to mention all other *bad* side-effects.
MarkTwainsMysteriousStranger
That’s my aunt Po-li-tics Girl
sadurdaynight
Companies want to treat the population like a labor buffet. They want all the perks of overpopulation driving down wage negotiation power of employees, of having "employees on demand" to hire during booms and fire them during busts...but they don't want the "icky" stuff... Like helping to pay to support people during economic downturns to ensure labor pool is still healthy and sustained. They want it all to fall on people. But at the same time pay us so little we can't exist without a job.
lovingspace
IMO The best move that the democratic party has is the introduction of a state sponsored healthcare provider that you can contribute to using your paycheck as an alternative to healthcare, dental and vision providers. Target initially to those that will be most profitable (contribute more and use less), but reinvest 100% of the profits to widen the program to cover everybody. (The ethical way would be to cover those in need first, but that requires collecting taxes, and this method doesn't.)
lovingspace
The reason why this is better in America is that 1) This would be self-sufficient, 2) You could focus on quality first, 3) Users retain choice, and 4) It is not a tax.
ThrowBlah
Did we just reinvent the ACA?
lovingspace
Well, the ACA doesn't give me an option to sign up for public healthcare through my employer, does it? It's only that I have to have insurance, and that, if I can't afford it, the government will offer a way. ACA costs $120B annually. I'm trying to flip the coin: offer it for those can afford it and workers first. Make it profitable first. Then you broaden the program to include those that use it and need it more. That way, no tax needs to be dedicated to it if we can make it self sufficient.
Groovechild
How do you pay for it? Taxes. More taxes? No, current taxes. Where are we gonna find that money? The Pentagon. They fail to account for tens, and even hundreds of billion dollars every year. Whatever they can't account for, cut it out of their next year's budget. A couple hundred billion would gonna long way to cover universal health care...and free education...and affordable housing...and livable social security. Tac the rich and corporations to make up and shore up the rest.
spicepoet
not even pentagon the past year and a half. blatant outright corruption to put tax dollars into GOP pockets. most no-bid contracts ever.
Onebigcanuck
Every publicly traded company who has employees that make less than 2x the FPL need to lose subsidies and be taxed. Looking at uou McDonalds and Walmart.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
FPL - Federal Poverty Level
McDonald's doesn't receive much in subsidies directly like big oil. They have relatively small property credits in some states, mostly Illinois.
Source: https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/mcdonalds
Their wages are subsidized by SNAP benefits and such, but that's less of a government subsidy and more of shitty business. But yes, tax them so they can make the decision to reinvest in their people.
MajorasTerribleFate
If we collected something like 80% (I forget the actual number) of what Americans spend on health insurance premiums and paid it as tax, single payer healthcare would be paid for and Americans would have leftover money in their pockets.
Single payer is cheaper!
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
"I can't afford to pay $250 per month for electricity! I'm already paying $300 per month for it!"
MajorasTerribleFate
I mean, yes, but I'd probably choose to characterize it as certain politicians promoting "we can't afford $250 for solar because there's no money" while also giving $300 to coal for the same capacity. Mine is not a perfect analogy.
OneOfTheEnemiesWithin
Solar and wind make them madder than “socialllllisttttt/communisttt” programs. (Yeah, MAGA is sure that socialism and communism are exactly the same). I’ve seen them ranting, mad as hell over their neighbor’s having a couple solar panels. I don’t know what to do with people who are so hateful over absolutely everything that can make all of our lives better. Slapping them is illegal.
MajorasTerribleFate
Having solar panels on your house is good capitalism, you could tell them. "Why let the sun's rays go to waste, when you can cash in? Money and power fall from the sky, and you would deny me? Begone, cuck of the authoritarian, and feel shame that you let the sun simply attack your house and *cost* you money."
euphxenos
"How do you pay for it?" Very simple. You take the money we already spend on healthcare and actually spend it on healthcare instead of on insurance company profits. The US spends more per capita on healthcare than other nations, and for that we get incomplete coverage and worse health outcomes than nations with universal healthcare. Raising taxes or cutting military spending are just boogeymen used to scare people about it.
Clockworkdancerobot
All those tax breaks we gave to the rich over the years would be a great start.
Dannyalcatraz
As well as holding the tax cheats accountable- ESPECIALLY the biggest ones.
Clockworkdancerobot
yeah, a lot of rich people are just not paying the taxes they owe even when super low. under existing tax law.
hyptosis
I mean, if just 10 of them paid theirs taxes we'd see huge numbers.
Hovencl00f
Those constant useless wars are very very expensive. And we have yet to win even one.
HighSorcerer
They're not useless, they make very few people a very large sum of money. That's what they're for.
frightlever
Know who has universal health care? Israel has universal health care.
judyblue
That we help pay for.
TheFuckfaceWhisperer
The problem is that USians are so adverse to being taxed (for some weird holdover from Boston) thay they end up with the highest tax rates for the least amount of benefit, and for some reason, they like it that way. Could you imagine giving up 30% or more of your paycheck for literally no self benefit? I would gladly give up over half of my paycheck if it meant free/reasonable healthcare, police who don't want to kill me on sight, and reasonably priced necessities.
Eyeetsass
A cool. Another piece of shit that doesn’t live here blames the people. USians, btw, is the dumbest fucking term anyone has ever used to describe Americans.
nation543
Tell us how you really feel.
In all honesty, they had a somewhat decent take. My thought is that we should just use Medicaid and Medicare to make Healthcare for universal everybody. We're already paying into it but we get no benefit unless we're unable to work for a long time. We could call it "Medicare For All" or "Universal Healthcare."
Eyeetsass
We’re on our way to electing the democratic socialists that will provide this. What pissed me off about the view from outside is that they don’t understand we’ve never been provided anyone between FDR, and Bernie Sanders to vote for that was fully on the side of common people, and improving their lives. They don’t understand the establishment. We’re not stupid. We’re owned by the smartest most entrenched best funded criminal monsters ever to govern.
BearieBlue
The thing is, very few of our taxes go towards our benefit. Most of our taxes go into the pockets of corrupt politicians and paying people off.
override367
eh it isnt even that, medicare is more expensive PER AMERICAN than any UHC system is for their citizens, but it has to pay INSANE prices for everything. At every single step of the way there's fucking retn seeking and gouging
Sticklebrickk
"You like roads?" - some cunt
sadurdaynight
It's the marketing companies do to push the idea that paying for private stuff is better. And yet companies want to pay so little while increasing prices of for-profit necessities that people sink into the hole. This makes for desperate workers that are easy to exploit. It's all by-design.
ForlornHopeful
It also seems that there's always been an undercurrent of "Taxes bad" that is very easy to appeal to and has ramped up in the past couple of decades
hyptosis
I'll say the same thing I say every time, it's the successful war on education. A cow stays in the field because it's too dumb to know it's being slaughtered.
RainierAlt
I think part of the issue is the existing taxes aren't used well. Other countries with a similar effective tax rate do far more with their income than we do.
EvilBilbo
1. No, Americans do not like it that way. Every American hates the American health care system.
2. We aren't taxed anywhere near 30%. I'm a fairly high earner and my effective tax rate last year was 11.2%. No loopholes, just W2.
3. I too would gladly triple my tax rate to not ever have to worry about healthcare costs again. Unfortunately what's good for Americans is not good politics, yet. Way too much money spent in elections for positive outcomes for citizens to be a factor in any result.
invaderjak
Some day, when I work hard enough to become a billionaire, those taxes will benefit me!
Eiladar
The Boston Tea Party is a _great_ example of this mentality; people throw the 'taxation without representation' thing around wildly, but the reality was that the process England put in place would have _lowered_ the price of tea for the average consumer. But, the contract went exclusively to the East India Company, which ticked off local merchants. More directly, folks like Sam Adams and John Hancock made a pretty penny smuggling tea into the colonies, and the new system would have undercut
Eiladar
their business. It was another example where a wealthy minority convinced the average person that a policy that would undercut the minority's finances was a damning threat to the majorities liberties/rights/freedom. Another similar example I tend to point to was the Confederate slave owners convincing a large population of the south, who could barely afford shoes, that the North was coming to take their slaves.
AyatollahBahloni
Velkommen til Norge
TheFuckfaceWhisperer
I dunno man. I'm in Japan so it mostly works here.
theworldcouldbeflat
They qualify as refugees in most countries now and don't believe they do, lol.
Broken08
If you include healthcare and all taxes, assume 50% or greater tax we're paying
Mncdk
Over half is crazy by any measure, unless you have a very high income. I'm a dane, and we are notorious for paying the most tax in the world or something, but the actual percentage I pay in tax, after deductions, is in the low 30's
TheFuckfaceWhisperer
When I lived in the US, I paid just over 30% income tax and let me tell you, we got absolutely shit for that. Still had to pay out of pocket for everything. I told my co-workers that if it was just short of a life ending emergency, put me on a plane back to Japan and I'd get it covered there. I could endure a 14 hour flight with a broken leg rather than put up with a bankrupt enducing medical bill.
TK421isAFK
You didn't get absolute shit for that 30%, you got higher gas prices, unaffordable housing, and rapidly increasing cost of living.
darkoshen
*sob*
jaecyk10
And don't forget all the dead children. Americans got that for their tax money too.
WhoIsFlabbergasted
And missiles. And sad parades with tanks