ItsNotEasyBeing
41571
878
13
Many games have more advanced mechanics that you might have missed or not quite grasped even when you're far into the game. But loading screens typically just show the same super basic "tips" over and over again.
TheLiteraryMachine
I finally got around to playing Horizon Zero Dawn for the first time and I feel this.
SophieClockwise
IlluminaBlade
SSD Owners : Loading Screens?
vincentleeprice
I still hate namco for patent the mini game loading screen and did nothing with it. Forcing us to miss put and when they didn't bother renewing it cause by then ssd were common and made loading very short.
ronnyhugo
To be fair books should do this as well. At the start of when you begin to learn algebra, it should say "PEMDAS" and a list of what each letter means. But then you also realize a lot of things are taught the wrong way around. Algebra should be taught with percents first. Like percents on some string of plus and minus numbers.
ankokublackfang
The calculus textbook I used had the first 4 pages dedicated to be small summaries of all the formulas and concepts you would need from previous math courses. The last 4 pages were done exactly the same way but with all the formulas and concepts from calculus. I loved it and used it thoroughly.
originfoomanchu1
I have an ssd i have literally 2 second loading screens i can't read that quick.
Thisisabigmistake
I have been playing PS5 games and it loads too fast for me to read them. I'm a slow reader anyway
mrmartini
"You can crouch repeatedly over a fallen foe to assert yourself"
Heisanevilgenius
When I played Metroid Dredd, it kept giving me tips about things I already knew and then I tried 100%ing and quickly found that a small handful of secrets required knowing secret techniques that the game never explained and I had to look them up on YouTube
FractalShoggoth
I AM THE LAW
ElvenTroll1121
It asserts you cant win with grace
[deleted]
[deleted]
Rickyexpress
This should be higher
mrmartini
"What? No teabag? Was I not a worthy opponent?"
IKillButerflies
Spec Ops: The Line had the loading screen tips become more unhinged as the game went on and your character lost his mind. Not the same, but definitely something that needs to be used more often
thecollective01
Slash0mega
i could just not get behind the what they where trying to do, "hey, spend 60 bucks on this video game :D... YOU PLAYED THE GAME YOU PAID GOOD MONEY FOR YOU MONSTER" not to mentioned you are railroaded, they made a iconic horrible action avoidable, then SHOCK PIKACHU FACE-ed when the playtesters avoided it, so they forced it instead.... trying to pull a "YOU BASTARD" works much better when the "bastard" made a more impactful choice than "followed the story" 1/2
Slash0mega
then again, i never actually played the game, just read about it. but its clear the message is "the right move is not to play this game" so its nice to not spend 10 bucks or whatever it is now to be told the good ending was not playing the game in the first place,
realbluesofa
I was about to say this, great game
TedBuckley
Press X to deploy white phosphorous
wadatahmydamie
Good thing it only harms the enemy!
Volimar
That game was a rough finish.
TheVampireDante
Haven't played that one in a while... Might be time for a revisit.
onlymostofthetime
it still holds up. admittedly some of the mechanics and controls are a little clunky but the story and atmosphere are still better than 90% of what's out there today.
SirYumYum
It's one of those games I wish I could delete from my brain just so I can play it for the first time again.
SirYumYum
GilliamTheButcher
God, and I got that one right after the white phosphorus scene. Really drove home the horror.
whatspaulplayingtoday
It's included specifically after the white phosphorus scene just to hammer that home. Near perfect game.
SirYumYum
That game was just one gut punch after another. Such a perfect deconstruction of the Spunk Gargle Wee Wee genre.
KeredRednaxela
What?
SirYumYum
Spunk gargle wee wee is a term Yahtzee invented to describe linear brown military shooters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enOcCuk4PWM
Rink257
It would be so easy to have special load screen tips for specific content. But Noooo. Game makers can't think smarter, they think harder $$$
codenameRadical
How much should we bet that some company copyrighted the idea, such that nobody else can ever use it?
Bossco20
Spec ops the line's loading screen goes insane and starts rationalizing all the horrible shit that happens in the game
rezexelon
Considering all my games load off gen 4 NVME's I honestly almost never have time to actually see the loading screens or tips.
nobodyspecial995
Loading screens with tips should have "press something to continue" for those of us with fast computers, so we get to read the whole tip.
Taokan22
If you're reading this, I couldn't beat this boss either. I pleaded with the programming team to make him a bit easier, but they just told me to get good, scrub. Um, press X to jump.
Neurisko
Tips? You mean those things I read the first three words of before the screen transitions because they were designed for hard drive loading times, not SSDs? Some games do it right; they don't advance past the screen or the tip until you press a key or button.
modus0
Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3 had an *interactive* loading screen - rotate the controller stick to make little green alien plant-men pop up out of the ground.
ItsNotEasyBeing
I love when you have to press a button. Especially with long loading times, because that way you can do something else while it's loading (like check imgur real quick) and then just start playing when you're ready.
Neurisko
Yeah when you have a long loading time that just dumps you into the game in progress, you might pick up your phone or go to the bathroom or whatever and come back and you died already.
LunarSol357
Visions of Mana has a funny version of this. There’s a bunch of screens that only show up when you reach certain dungeons that have unique mechanics.
Unfortunately these mechanics are unique and once you clear them you will forever be reminded how to use that one robot or how to direct light or something.
KaptenN
Games shouldn't have tips in the loading screens unless the screen remains long enough to read them.
sadurdaynight
(fallout 4 loading screen) you can hold the pipboy key to activate flashlight (new players) wh-what?! That's not a TIP, that's vital, need-to-know info, mf'er!
CaptainWeaselFox
Pretty sure Ghost of Shushima did this. Could be wrong
faultysage
What if they just got more and more real. "You've spent 1,000 hours playing this game, with that amount of time you probably could have learned to play that instrument you always wanted to."
caerulakid
*looks at my Destiny 2 playtime* I-I could’ve learned four instruments.
Frederf
"Call your mother" "Change the smoke detector battery"
DdCno1
Don't - beep - tell me - beep - what to do - beep.
mrmartini
To be fair, my Gregorian chanting got pretty solid from years of playing Halo
SlyMrFox
A company held on to the patent for mini games during loading times. It finally ended, but more and more games are getting created with very fast load screens.
testzero
"You have died 14 times on this instant death platforming puzzle because we didn't tell you which of the 12 directions your objective is in. Would you like to switch to 'stupid baby loser difficulty for babies'? (This will only affect combat)"
MerriMod
The way things are going, they're just going to increase loading screen times to put ads onto them.
INeverReadTheTOS
Tips on the loading screen will always be a bad decision, imo. Inevitably, as tech improves, they WILL become impossible to read.
OmgOptimized
Often there's a "press space to continue" type thing to help with that.
SecondSince
For RTS and such, yes. But take a Skyrim or something like it and not only is there no "press space", there shouldn't be.
FoxySpirit
But often not.
OmgOptimized
But if there is, the only concrete problem raised is elimintated. As such, "always" is a rather strong word to use.
HellenicTaxCollector2
there shouldnt be any tips ! finding out mechanics and techs is the fun part !
BeneBeGood
I personally think that loading screens could be minigames, but some company took the ip for that process and now we don't get minigames as loading screens.
DuffyMx
"Don't stand in the fire"
SpartaWolf117
This is apparently too advanced for 90% of MMO raiders...
SirYumYum
I wish that I could emboss that on a 2 by 4 and hit some of the people with whom I raided with it.
ApothecaryGrant
"Pro Tip: if your party wipes it's always the healer's fault."
Sanzanna
Hot take: this is a good use for AI. If they notice you haven't been using ____ ability in 15 hours of gameplay after being away from the game for three months, they should remind you it exists.
Heisanevilgenius
There's AI and then there's "AI". AI isn't bad. Generative "AI" is awful.
Trunkmonkay
Love these "ai should be used for x" post and describe something that does not require AI to do or can't be done by AI. "AI" is just the new term for "magic" at this point.
RobBobertyYT
Hot take, we don't need to use the latest buzzwords (like AI) to make something like that.
TripleDane
That is a huge waste of processing power to use "AI" for this. its like the post about how it took "AI" 53 secs to do a simple multiplication that a software calculator does in fractions of 1. it simply a horrible use case for current stage "AI"
Sanzanna
And if you are doing ok in the game, they should give comedic "tips" that are just to keep you entertained.
LariCheltsy
Anarchduke
Loading screen tip: Did you know you can avoid most attacks by dodging? Because judging by the last 15 deaths, you clearly don't know.
Tarmaccian
Yep. Cue today's episode of "AI is misunderstood"… AI isn't just LLMs. It's also not just "Try spinning. That's a good trick."
An AI can figure out whether you're trying the "jump around" or "sneak around" strategy, recognize that the space is big enough for your crazy-ass mage/gymnast build to throw a fireball _and_ duck out of the way, but only after you throw the Holy Hand Grenade that you somehow managed to keep from Act I…
An AI can suggest _new_ strategy, not just what the devs intended.
Badprenup
In theory, sure. But what are the real benefits here? Are we going to use AI to analyze the playstyle and give some other tip that may or may not work because even really good AI is wrong a lot?
Or should we just not do that waste of processing power and simply have loading tips tied to the current location/part of the games story, which is likely more useful and accurate? Plus, how do you condense some AI gen strategy into an understandable loading tip that maxes out at like 20 words?
Tarmaccian
Sure, do the analysis. As GPUs get even more powerful, the processors will be sitting idle anyway. During the loading screen, when the system is mostly waiting on the disk to load the game state, it could even run a rough simulation to confirm that the idea works. Hell, let the AI change weights to the procedural world generation, so playstyle changes the game.
For presenting the idea, that's what a LLM is for… or it could draw a sketch of the plan, or storyboards, or anything. Whatever fits.
OmgOptimized
Since you're making up rules for when to show what, it's not really to connected at all to the current machine learning AI hype cycle.
sambaah05
There's a lot more to the AI hype cycle then what you might be seeing. I work in marketing. It's totally revolutionizing how we build campaigns and chose who to target. And it actually improves campaign performance! So it not just hype... There's some actual results there.
OmgOptimized
Do you to input "if [this] then [that] else if [this2] then [that2] else [that3]"? Because if so, that's not likely to be the machine learning part. Like I said: if-else ideas isn't how machine learning works. That's what's wrong here. That machine learning is used to maximize the FOMO, optimize the targeting, and manufacture maximum percieved need is not news at all.
sambaah05
No. Its not that. Its true ML. I know what ML is, I've built my own models in python. And manage active deployment of multiple models in different campaigns. I get what you are saying, but the ML models we had in marketing even 3-4 years ago, are nothing compared to what we have now. Can't fully discuss why they are different and so much more effective. But it's amazing what AI is doing in marketing right now. And not just the GenAI stuff.
OmgOptimized
Good, then you understand that the OP here has the completely wrong impression of what applying AI actually looks like when they wrote exactly such an "if-else" tree in their comment. That was my entire point. And also a tiny bit of an "marketing is at best borderline unethical" point on the side.
GirdleTurtle
Depends. Analyzing gameplay style and recommending related unused mechanics may work… though it may be a highly inefficient use of compute resources compared to “if X not used, remind of X”.
OmgOptimized
Maybe it can be applied, yes, but regardless it'd nothing like what they're suggesting.
GirdleTurtle
You’re not wrong at all. Using AI for a routine similar to what is already commonplace (for example, counting use cases for achievements) would probably be a terrible use of resources… asking ChatGPT for result of 2+2
AI is best used for complex pattern recognition (like linguistics and such). If you’re adding actual AI it’d probably be good for behavioral analysis… either outside the narrative for adaptive guidance or internally for NPC behavior and/or side quest generators in online games.1/2
GirdleTurtle
Note: I say online games, because the compute resources and sample size necessary could end up being massive.
For example: Having each interaction with a NPC have a slightly different grammatical composition and/or filler text would make everyone’s experience more unique…though I’d guess you’d need some indication that conversation line is inconsequential otherwise completionists would sit there forever waiting for NPC to do the clichéd repeat-the-last-sentence.
NonWellKnownImgurian
Some games do a version of that. The game sees what killed you and gives you a tip on beating/avoiding it next time
Heavenissize17socks
FiveHeadedSnakeGod
"Use the middle stick to avoid the Joker's bullet."
Badprenup
I remember that, that was an awesome narrative idea. After the initial confusion my friend and I joked that the bullet could have been avoided if you simply hit Joker with your Bat-dick. Your Bat-a-wang.
SpaceForGold
Some of the call of duty games show powerful quotes about war when you die and reload, unless it was to a grenade and then they show you the grenade icon and say “if you see this, move away from it.” (Basically). Which I always loved.
Shaodyn
"If you get lost, you can open the map with ________button." I once got an achievement for getting through an entire level without looking at the map because I didn't know how to open it.
Neurisko
That doesn't require AI, it just requires a "date last used" field for every skill. Using AI for that would be like using an atomic weapon to erase a penciled dot from an "i". And it would still require a "date last used" field.
unluckyandbored
If the game sees you've been away for a while, it should have a prompt upon loading your save to the effect of "It's been a while. Here's a brief summary of events leading up to where you stopped. Would you like to review the controls?"
MajorasTerribleFate
"First, give this rock human-level intelligence, the ability to be given any problem and to find its way toward some kind of solution."
"Okay, it took a lot of work, but done."
"Now, make it print out a list of the first ten integers greater than 0."
Neurisko
And it'll still come back with something like "0, 1, 2, pi, 9, 8, 5, bicycle."
Ronelyn
This. I keep hearing "we need GenAI if we want big environments," and...bitch, procedural generation's been around longer than your thieving, useless asses at a thousandth of your costs on every level.
zimirken
No man's sky
ydwyrd
One of the more recent examples, but games had been using procedural generation for decades before that.
Sh1tMovieGroup
Elite - not Elite: Dangerous, motherflipping Elite I played on my sisters Acorn Electron in 1984
Enoan
Could be neat to use gen AI to create plausible description text for all of the generated life forms and such, but even then it falls apart pretty quickly
FormalWareBytes
Well historical texts and archeological finds describing ancient sites are often full of conflicts and inaccuracies, just like humans
SlyMrFox
Elder Scrolls Arena and Daggerfall.
DdCno1
The latter in particular demonstrated the pitfalls of this technology. Unbelievably buggy, with tons of unsolvable procedurally generated dungeons.
Akurei00
Or even just a frequency of use counter. They used move A and B over 1000 times each.
They've used C 14 times. They may be doing that accidentally.
BlastFX
That literally is AI, though - an algorithm that makes the machine behave "intelligently" by reacting to changing circumstances. It's not generative AI, it's not general AI, but it is AI.
Ticmea
It's true that this is what the term originally meant, but unfortunately nowadays 99% of the time people who say "AI" mean to say "LLM" or "ML", which has sort of changed the perceived meaning of it.
BlastFX
It still means that in serious academic circles. I visited an AI conference this January and there was literally zero machine learning. The majority was multi-agent planning. Conflating AI with machine learning is just marketing bullshit.
Ticmea
Yep, not saying you're wrong, just wanted to point out that that's (most likely) what the people further up in the comment chain meant. Which is why the destinction you made (while perfectly correct) is not applicable to what they meant. Thanks for explaining it though, the conflation of terms gets on my nerves too.
RoyWolfe
You cannot sell me that "select skill where last_used < TODAY-30d" is AI in any sense, meaning or history of term. Even expert inference systems are barely AI. This idea is just "your life two years ago" in pewpew game form; that would be such a low bar as to be meaningless.
BlastFX
It is. Even a lookup table for tic-tac-to is AI. There's a huge difference between what AI actually means and how marketing assholes misuse the term.