Bountyhunterfromhell
109202
2438
99
https://returntonow.net/2020/12/11/maps-show-how-dramatically-fertilizer-is-choking-the-great-lakes/
Mar 22, 2021 6:23 AM
Bountyhunterfromhell
109202
2438
99
https://returntonow.net/2020/12/11/maps-show-how-dramatically-fertilizer-is-choking-the-great-lakes/
turndownearthwormrecruitment
And yet Vegans are still a laughing stock for many people on Imgur.
PoorSucker
Baltic sea hypoxia : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea_hypoxia
JackStuder
Most individual farmers aren’t the problem. The meat packers keep prices so fucked up, good farmers can’t survive, only industrial farmers
Forgotmyoldaccountbutohwell
Fucks sake, are we really going to be around for humanity to kill itself.
youreathing
That's ok. Give it some time and Canada's conservatives will vote to deny the Great Lakes are even real.
NPaine
„bAt rEgUlAtIoNs bAd fOr bUsnEs!“ - magats and bananapublicans
perchingbird
Of course they don't realize regulations can create new businesses, but they benefit from dirty energy so they dgaf
kainowsound
This is the reason I'm a vegetarian. Not the whole animal cruelty thing.
KvltDrummer
I went full vegan 2 weeks ago for this exact reason as well. The reduction in animal cruelty is a big bonus though.
beenbannedb4
Oh no, the problem is in the Amazon! Don't you dare look to the USA, China, Russia... Only look at poor countries with no nuclear power.
FailedCrate
Have ya also accounted in the dstrctn of the water table & hat the meat industry is the main breeding ground for multi resistant bacteria?
lapetitev
WoW first time I see a post supporting « veganism » on the front page. That’s refreshing
imullofmachine
Not just the CAFO meat industry, those are subsidized crops (corn and soy) and are primary ingredients for nearly all manufactured foods
ApplesdaKitty
@op fucking thank you! for reasons to hate the last administration, so many regulations were gutted that helped kill the progress thru EPA
Bountyhunterfromhell
My pleasure
SlappedStupid
You can hardly blame them; we're paying them to do it. We don't have to go vegan to make a difference, just eating 30% less meat would help.
DrFighterpilotAttorneyAtLaw
We watched The Gamechangers and stopped making meat the "star" of each meal and now only eat meat maybe 2x a week.
kikiohearts
As someone who lives about MAYBE 10 minutes from Lake Michigan. Peoples homes are sinking into the dunes too. They are coming far more inlan
kikiohearts
But I sure do love trading corn and soybean for food. /s
nonCanadianGoose
They’re using azolla fern now that can neutralize fertilizer in water and in turn used as fodder itself
battlebetter5772
No one will give a shit until it's too late.
MarkWatneysVicodinPotato
I live next to Lake Erie, we have cared about it for a long time but positive change happens far too slow.
StrangerRangerDanger
that was the point of the lorax
RelevantImgurian
It’s already too late.
pomdor
And we STILL can't get people to care.
hillbillyhitler
Not enough people anyway, most advocates for the environment are ‘annoying’.
wadenelson1
And costs 100X as much to restore as it would have to prevent.
bojim1965
Then they'll blame Hillary Clinton.
wadenelson1
Thanks, Obama.
zenabel
And a lot of people still won’t care then
arkthan
a lot of us do care, but not enough. We are fighting a losing battle and its tough to keep going some days.
MrKomisiripala
This is the ass end of the Fuck Around age. We’re gonna get a front row seat to the Find Out age.
zfournier16
Chu talking about the find out age is starting you just dont know it yet
Captainawesomething
Poetry
LovesToSpooge517
im grateful my balls of steel gave me the courage to get a vasectomy. made the hardest sacrifice and protected my kids from this hell.
owensdad102542
Well said.
UpvoteTotem
Can't wait! (jk, it's terrifying. I just use humor to deal with shit)
EchoReaper
The problem is no one doing the Fuck Around will be party to Find Out since they have plenty of $ to weather the storm or be dead by then
staplestapler
Wait, you need money to die now? Damn, I knew our generation wouldn't be able to retire but I didn't realize it was that bad.
freiman
They zap you back to life just to sew up another pair of nikes bro
scoobar
If you die poor, your body just gets used for food or fuel. No funerals now unless you’re rich. Soylent Green is people.
supremecheesehoffinator
Funerals are expensive man, in the UK it's something like 3 to 5k easily and that's nothing fancy either
Nyshie
Yea we had to do a bare minimum for my dad cause my family isnt well off. Just cremation and burial was about 2k, and he went into plot with
Nyshie
My mother, so it wasn't even a new hole or nothing.
KommSusserTod
My wife's funeral was 11k, and that was on the cheap. Her grave marker was another grand. That industry is a vulture culture.
Rizhah1
In sorry for your loss ?
CoachFeratu
Just throw me in a ditch and let nature reclaim me.
supremecheesehoffinator
Find your own ditch, I've claimed this one
FiendishDoctorWuTangClan
GravitySmellsLikeCheese
I wanted a thrown of a cliff into the sea funeral. Full yeet. Wife won’t even do me a Viking funeral. Now trying for a dropped into ocean
Nobanob
Cement shoes, and a couple of miles out in to the ocean for me please.
6313326
It cost around US$2k just to cremate my dad (COVID, no services) & get his ashes back in a box.
Metalbawkses
And it's not even a nice box.
sk0976
A lot of what agent Smith said is true.
Flodos
As a species we're failing the Great Filter of greed. We could solve these issues, we simply don't.
MissSiesta
This. We're so far removed from the people and land exploited we stop caring.
zenabel
Good, humans deserve to die out as a species. (Sorry, I’m a little bitter)
donthaveonebrojustlurk
I am solving this issue by building up my seaweed cultivation business.
FourLegsGood
Speak for yourself
IJustMightBeTheDroidYouAreLookingFor
Do you think greed is good?
FourLegsGood
Pay attention to grammar and you'll be able to work out what I'm referring to. Then you won't have to ask stupid questions.
IJustMightBeTheDroidYouAreLookingFor
Wow, what a fucked up, ignorant response. Help a brother out oh great quiz master. What the fuck did you mean by your quizzical statement?
FourLegsGood
It's straightforward. If you don't understand it then you have more fundamental problems I'm not qualified to solve for you.
Armored0Titan0
Actually, we can’t fix it at this point. Now it’s just about handling the consequences of past generations actions.
Motherearthlovesyou
Yes we can. We just have to move the motivation. We subsidize death all day everyday.
TheSorrowsofYoungWerthersOriginal
Almost. We still can fix the things we do now that will fuck us up later. Yes, mitigation is necessary, but some prevention still possible.
Flodos
True, but we're not doing it. Every scientist speaking out is ignored, all we do are tokenistic, insignificant gestures.
tzap
It's up to us today to decide whether the consequence is millions dead, tens off millions dead or hundreds of millions dead.
iCurse
We can still do damage control. We can't instantly fix it anymore, but if we start being a net positive we can help the planet heal
imgurschmimgur
We're a fat bastard eating ourselves to death
NinjaCongo
This whole collective guilt thing is keeping people from overthrowing those that design these policies of unbridled greed.
tzap
I feel guilt and take my own steps to alleviate it. I also want much more radically green politicians and I want immediate action by them.
Leevalleyoftheshadowofdeath
"Mint sir?" "Can't i'm full" "tis but one wafer thin sir...."
tzap
It kinda irks me that when we say 'we', it's easy to forget that it's really a minority of the population that is using resources in ..
tzap
.. an unsustainable way. If the richest, and most heavily consuming, 20% of population stopped excess consumption, we'd be OK.
GravitySmellsLikeCheese
As a European I believe that per capita we are the worst of the worst for consumption and greenhouse gas liberation. I read it somewhere
whitey211
And everyone gives vegans a hard time.
IdiotSavantTinker
hillbillyhitler
It’s the cognitive dissonance
tzxAzrael
it isn't vegans or not-vegans that will change the world. how much change does 1 vegan more or less make compared to what each company does?
Anarchduke
that would be because vegans seem to enjoy being self-righteous twats
dockerexe
As a practicing vegan, I wish I could disagree but I can't even stand a lot of them and avoid the vegan reddit...
hillbillyhitler
Yeah I know:( I think socks congregate on the internet though. My in person vegan friends are very lovely though
mormacil
Netherlands are in the same place, fertilization is killing the surrounding area. It's really hard to walk back once the farms are there.
Zahnradfee
Parts of Germany are having contaminated groundwater now so the treatment to turn it into drinking water becomes more expensive.
mercyPandaRunner
Only 4% of mammals are wild animals. The rest are humans (36%) and livestock (60%). Only 30% of birds are wild. 70% are livestock.
combatwombat0
.
theMonkeyTrap
When I first learned this it was the most shocking thing about the whole ordeal.
Bountyhunterfromhell
Do you have a link for that ? I would like to make a meme about it. Thank you
mercyPandaRunner
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/25/6506 is the original source, but there is also a Guardian article summarizing it
mercyPandaRunner
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study
Bountyhunterfromhell
mercyPandaRunner
jethro007
Extra bonus: it's all "roundup ready" crop so you'll never be able to plant anything but corn and soybean from Beyer aka Monsanto
TheWarHymn
Not sure if it's paid research with conflict of interest, but glyphosate supposedly has a environmental half life of about 2 months average.
TheWarHymn
Also, farmers routinely use it to kill crops like wheat before harvest to aid drying. So you can probably still grow other stuff next season
jethro007
Google the long-term effects of routine roundup usage. There are multiple studies
UserWithoutUsername
Or roundup-resistant gigant mutant weed. there is that too. they are needing more and more poison/surface
butts4hats
People should start eating insects. High in protein and low environmental impact
donthaveonebrojustlurk
Or cultivated seaweed!
N1ghtCr33p
Crunchy on the outside, creamy in the middle.
DontLookAtMeInThatToneOfVoicee
Slimy, yet satisfying
senseipineapple
Pffftt, they're probably already doing it by grinding up insects and including them in processed foods.
StarSauce
Or start lab growing meat. If we really got that going large-scale, it would be incredible. We would eventually have a steakhouse on mars.
Peachcappuccino
They are doing this already.
Raighto
There is not as much demand as you think people would have. People want the "natural" artificial bred antiobiotic stuff
wqpsu
or just eat beans. no animal food source will be more efficient than just directly eating the plants that would otherwise be used as feed
mormacil
Except for certain nutrients that are created by said animals. There's a reason we evolved to be able to eat meat...
ExcessivePeanutButter
B12 is deficient in modern plant diets because of water purification and such.
mormacil
Source?
ExcessivePeanutButter
I don't have anything credible to hand, but this site discusses the prevalence of b12 creating bacteria in the wild. Bacteria...
PrissySnail
Why youse downvoting him? He's right, you basically can't get b12 without animal products.
Peachcappuccino
The animals don't have b12 in them either anymore due to crappy soil.. Everyone should be taking a b12 supp. Go vegan.
TheWarHymn
Luckily we can biosynthesize whatever B12 we need on an industrial scale. Bad news for the organic advocates, good news for the rest of us.
mormacil
Truth doesn't agree with their feelings I guess. I'm not saying veganism is impossible, I take issue with the efficiency claim.
Peachcappuccino
What nutrients are only available in animals? Vegan almost five years with perfect bloodwork here?
TwoFlower68
*evolved to NEED animal sourced foods. There's no primitive society of vegans, guess why
skywards
Veganism is an answer to the unsustainable and unethical mass production of livestock, it's not in conflict with indigenous ways of life.
lgnoramus
Because they didn't have a choice, but we do.
mormacil
We're arguing efficiency of a plant based diet here, not possibility.
Metallica93
"But why don't you want to have kids?" Me: [vigorously points to a shitload of maps related to climate change and human destruction]
pointlessinternetpoints
*gestures at everything
Metallica93
Vigorously, I might add.
TheWhiteBarry
Counterpoint: the kind of people who deny climate change are the same who have 10 kids. In a generation we could be living in idiocracy
Fuckimgurcunts
We are a fucking cancer
Metallica93
We can also be the cure, but the amount of "I choose not to" is fucking astounding.
Saigon333
I’m always tempted to reply “Why would I carry wood into a burning house?”
Metallica93
Haven't heard that one in a long while. Yoink.
MGCMorph
no kids DEFINITELY means no more humans!? Like, I get the problem but not having kids is NOT the answer. Have them, raise them properly.
KvltDrummer
No. You can have them and raise them for me instead.
Metallica93
Why the "!?" at the end? Are you asking or telling? And no. Having no kids is a great solution. More people should try it.
MGCMorph
?! out of utter surprise, now, at both of you for thinking not having kids is the answer, when raising kids properly is the solution.
Metallica93
If you signed a bill into law and it wasn't enforced, would you create a new law or put more resources into enforcing the old one? Same shit
MGCMorph
raising kids properly IS the "new law" in your example. What - you just wanna watch the world end and the human race become extinct?
TobiFuenke
In the other hand: Soylent Green
Thekindofkindlyman
It’s people
TobiFuenke
*on
TharrickLawson
In Soylent Green, the other hand
Adasoy
...and the ones who don't care at all will keep on eating and breeding, because Entropy would love people who can't define it, if it felt.
ThronesWoven
its fucked to think that a lot of rednecks will eventually be saying "we got to breed, otherwise the world will be nothing but brown people"
Adasoy
And they don't even get that since "European" is mixed with every ethnicity on the planet and "white" is recessive, "brown" is immortality.
Adasoy
The upvote was for the perspective, not the statement itself.
Donku83
People deciding to not have kids is the slower yet more morally acceptable way to be team Thanos
Spiderbubble
Just having 1 kid will do that. 2 people in one generation becomes just 1 in the next.
WhatImmadoboutmylegs
Unless some people have 7.
Donku83
That usually balances it out
IUpvoteLOTRMemes
Im 28 years old and I'm the oldest of 14 kids...
tronicles
Its also the plot to Idiocracy and how they got so stupid. Forward thinking ppl didn't have kids = more dumb dumbs
neomagus00
Nothing I can do about that, except have children to expend as ammunition in class warfare over a dying planet. Or... not.
Donku83
Wait...no, you might be on to something. I'll start up some blueprints for a child cannon
Donku83
But...it's got electrolytes
Thekindofkindlyman
It’s what plants crave
buttdestroyer
Because I believe that the death of humans will be a net positive towards the existence of snow leopards.
Doomgriever
It's mandatory for Snow Leopards to have their tail in their mouth
combatwombat0
We all would if we had a tail like that
buttdestroyer
Thank you for this.
Doomgriever
Doomgriever
Doomgriever
HighlandViking
It’s far worse:
milkmyrod
I think it's brave to say Glaciers 10%. PERMANENT Snow and Ice. Humans be like, Hold my beer!
getoffmylawnyoufilthyingrates
I would love to see this map animated for changes over time.
JustAnotherVictimOfAmbientMorality
Although it should be noted that not all land that feeds livestock could be used productively as cropland.
jepplax
but that land could easily be habitat, that both sequesters carbon and keeps the delicate ecosystems in balance
JustAnotherVictimOfAmbientMorality
Sure. Though that's also often the kind of low-quality land that's used by low-tech animal herders with few other options.
1337likeninja
Can't get over Libya, one of the least developed nations on earth, being used to represent development. lol.
Skawomplious
I mean, I know intellectually that meat consumption at that scale is a Bad Thing and I want to not do Bad Things. (1)
Skawomplious
But goddammit, steaks and bacon and sausage are so tasty :(. (1)
XVUltima
I'm dumb. I kept looking for what represented the oceans.
ilhares
Hey, look! They remembered New Zealand!
ComicPi
Who?
Youhavinagiraffe
Well fortunately we're going to get a lot of glacier land back soon! Good news!
teenagewaistband
Why is "glaciers" listed twice?
momsfavouritespawn
It’s two different land masses, both with the majority of space used by glaciers
FireBreathingStockBroker
Someone didn't read the legend
CaptainFlow
It shouldn't be, if you only add glaciers once the percentages come to 99%.
NoNameFred
Because neither of those areas make up 10% on their own, and are too far apart to share a label. Like Australia & Indonesia both being Shrub
KingBanana8008
Oh I didn’t see the second glacier label, thanks. Was wondering how Greenland alone was 10% of the Earth’s surface
BigBluFrog
Greenland and Antarctica together make up the percentage for glaciers, I would say.
Mithi
WHOLY FUCK. 27% versus 7%, I had no idea THAT it is that bad.
TheWorldAccordingToAtlas
What others have said, but also groups like TNC work with ranchers and allow grazing on protected lands to replace missing wild herds.
DonteHaversham
Emphasis on the second "that"
Mithi
Yeah, got the false one in my indignation.
Zahnradfee
Well, to be fair, the animal feed land includes grazing land, which is usually a land that cannot be used for other crops. I wish they had >
Crazyaussiecanadian
Yep, my region can not be used to grow cereals or pulses as our season is too short. But we grow fantastic hay.
Crazyaussiecanadian
Plus, fertilizer is rarely used and land is tilled at most once every ten years.
Mithi
Sure, but still almost 4:1 ratio.
Zahnradfee
Yes, there is definitely a huge disbalance there.
Zahnradfee
shown the grazing land and the land that is used to grow animal food other than grass differentiated from each other. But there is a huge >
Zahnradfee
problem with rainforest being burned down to grow soy to feed cows.
HighlandViking
The end result is the same.
ratilda
And cows aren't supposed to eat neither doy, not corn - they get sick from this diet
mricwiener
I have read this before but as a gardener, this land not being suitable for conventional farming doesn't mean you can't produce food there
Zahnradfee
That's true! I'm also a gardener and our plot is on top of old house cellars. Dig 20-30cm and you have stones. But we still make it work -
Zahnradfee
it just means you need to take more time to build up humus.
CannabalisticSpaceRapArtist
By conventional, you mean commercial?
mricwiener
no. I meant things like monocultures, heavy machinery, unsuitable fertilizers, pesticides etc.
mricwiener
you can still do sustainable gardening on a large scale -> conventional is almost always commercial but not the other way around
breadedfishstrip
It gets worse. More than 80% of farmland is used for livestock but it produces just 18% of food calories and 37% of protein
Northernwest
Looks like crop land for animal feed is in the livesto k portion. This is not the clearest info graph.
Mithi
Yes it is, and yes it is. "Grazing and feed crops" and grazing _is_ the minority, don't kid yourself.
breadedfishstrip
src https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987
JustSomePersonThere
Yeah man the meat industry is pretty goddamn fucky.
BonnetComet
But bacon...
Unklejrad
Steak mostly, pigs don’t really require the land that cows do
Leithreas
I know it's heresy but most of the bacon flavor comes from the curing. You could use whatever and it tastes about the same.
chromed
Eh, you also need a really high fat cut for it to actually be like bacon.
PieMasterOfTheRealm
Sadly we have two options: not have bacon in the future and be dead,.or not have bacon in the future and not be dead. Were going with #1 atm
quzar
One theory behind the ban on eating pigs in Judaism/Islam is that they are very poor investments compared to goats/sheep but delicious, so >
BonnetComet
Cilvaa
So what's the solution, apart from drastically reducing the human population?
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
Not being an ecofascist cunt
jamiedBreaker
Reducing factory-farmed meat consumption (fast food is a big one, good place to start). Also look for sustainability labels on meat packagin
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
Vat grown meat is a thing now. Ram rodding it in to reduce land use would be a great thing to do
ThatDarnLobster
There is a fair amount of glacier and forests left. (Sarcasm)
perchingbird
Reduce meat to twice a week, eat more chicken, stuff that obnoxious vegan at the whole foods tells you, ect
HighlandViking
Since you brought up the subject, check out the trailer for the upcoming documentary ‘8 billion angels’: https://youtu.be/q-zMlAAg3XA
SlowMoE30
Eating less meat. You need less cropland if you eat crops directly.
NathanWhocare
But crops don't taste as good as cows, pigs and lamb.
hillbillyhitler
Hey I doubt anyone will change so I suppose enjoy them, maybe you’ll die before drastic change occurs
bamblebimble
That's actually been disproven. The amount of cross needed to sustain you versus meat and the cross needed for the cow ends up better off
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
That's just physically impossible. As in it would violate thermodynamics
NoNameFred
Depends on relative efficiency; if you only get 10% of the energy from the plant, but the cow gets 80%, and then you get 50% from the meat?
bamblebimble
Eating cows
ChristopherHallett
Don't worry, it's totally fine - the USA absolutely learned an important lesson from the dust bowl...
TheWarHymn
Dust bowl was due to bad tillage practice and lack of tree cover. This time around, it's overusage and runoff of artificial fertilizers.
ChristopherHallett
Yeah as I implied, they didn't learn the first time.
juicynibbler
Was up in fargo yesterday. Gusts of 40. Fields were just blowing away. Dont understand how you can watch that as a farmer and not want to
juicynibbler
Change tillage practices.
Jokerthehulk
What do I do with this information
donthaveonebrojustlurk
Grow seaweed
corig123
We put 20 acres of our 80 acre farm in the region back into wetland to help filter (but we're a park district, so not $ driven)
Luciuslucullus
If you live near the Great Lakes, you could look into the issue and do activism. If not, nothing at all. Regions differ.
jepplax
vote for the political parties that have environmental protection on their agenda.
MantisTobogganPilotMD
yeah. my job used to be working with farmers and finding them grant money to help mitigate the runoff from their fields, it was great.
FetaForMoses
Eat fewer meat and dairy products.
mormacil
This, try eating vegetarian half the week, try one vegan day a week. That would help tremendously. Then have a steak on Sunday.
TwoFlower68
Two steaks! Because I've been virtuous, I deserve a reward
mormacil
If you eat meat only 3/7 days and 2 of those days have a steak? Be my guest, that's a solid improvement on the average consumer.
lauraInternetJunkie
One steak and one predator fish once a month. Poultry and prey fish 2 or 3 times a week. Rest is legumes and eggs. Preferably local and
lauraInternetJunkie
seasonal but we can't reasonably eat pumpkins and potatoes for 4 months a year.
CrisprCAS
nicouh
Yep, came to the same conclusion. I used to eat meat almost every day, but am happy I got it down to like 30 to 50% by now. WorkInProgress:)
thisappisajoke
And the best way to help is to stop consuming animals and go straight for the source but people aren't ready to talk about that.
TheWhiteBarry
Are you interested in finding a real solution or do you wanna pretend people are going to stop eating meat? They're mutually exclusive.
thisappisajoke
I do not expect everyone to stop eating meat, lower consumption? Sure. But I know it's not realistic to expect everyone to do that.
donthaveonebrojustlurk
People are already stopping to eat meat....plant based is the fastest growing food sector the last few years. It's about drawing down.
TheWhiteBarry
So you really expect every man, woman, and child to comply? Like I said, let's try to find real solutions and not rely on wishful thinking
donthaveonebrojustlurk
Who is taking about comply? Individuals are making choice. In a market economy, when demand dries up, prices will rise and supply will...
donthaveonebrojustlurk
...decrease, and a cycle will start where eventually meat will be v. expensive and hard to find. Supply pressures caused by climate change..
Joshiraptor
"BuT I NeEd MeAt" heard it too many times
ImmortalTimothy
To be fair I was like that until I became vegetarian. I honestly thought I would not be able to be a vegetarian, but turns out it was easy.
Joshiraptor
Ye I thought it'd be hard but eased myself into it and havent looked back. Gone vegan this last year, and that wasn't bad with gentle change
ImmortalTimothy
I just took the plunge one day with my father. He stayed vegetarian for like a week and I am still vegetarian 4 or so years later.
Elnauriel
Especially around here. Imgur has a real problem with vegans and vegetarians that occludes any meaningful conversation about the topic.
SirButcher
Yeah, suddenly everybody becomes a bodybuilder who needs 300g protein per day.
thisappisajoke
Tons of plant based body builders getting plenty of protein out there.
thisappisajoke
I love that people don't believe me hahah. I done said people aren't ready to talk about it. Cognitive dissonance is real.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Can you give me ideas of plant based proteins for bulking up? :)
hillbillyhitler
It’s such a huge issue. Pathetic. Literally so many vegan athletes, it is proven to be a healthy lifestyle
hillbillyhitler
As if people who give up animal products hated them. We all liked them, it wasn’t easy.
KvltDrummer
Shit I was addicted to cheese and yoghurt before I went vegan cold turkey. I also used to eat steaks blue.
hillbillyhitler
Mac and cheese still haunts me
lauraInternetJunkie
Yeah, we may not like it, but vegans are on the right side of History. If we get to have a History.
sirpeterwhite
It is not that simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI&t=38s&ab_channel=TED
Secondmonth
Soy is affordable for vegan food because the soy-leftovers humans can't digest is sold as pig feed. Would be burned otherwise..
lauraInternetJunkie
You don't need soy to survive though
Secondmonth
True! But demand feeds production
hillbillyhitler
People know this, bUt BaCoN, and when facts are presented the get really angry about the whole thing.
Julesvernevienna
They are nit necessarily on the only right side, but an improvement. Meat should be a delicacy only enjoyed on rare occasions
GrumpyOldMillennial
I prefer medium rare myself but whatever grills your goat I guess.
lauraInternetJunkie
Badum tssss
Julesvernevienna
not a mass product hurting and killing the environment and inflicting pain on the poor livestock
lauraInternetJunkie
I agree with you, but also wouldn't be able to kill an animal under normal circumstances so I would still feel bad eating them, as I do now
ManByTechnicality
Meta-analysis suggest that reducing meat and animal by product industry to sustainable levels will have the same impact of going strictly
ManByTechnicality
Vegan. The big issue is that a lot of land that is used for the omnivore industry is just not usable for the vegetables needed for an all
ManByTechnicality
Vegan diet and would require just as much resources to grow the plants as it would to grow meat and byproducts in a sustainable way.
Dvipe19
This is false. Have you seen the stats on how much food is produced just to feed the livestock?? Humans could live off a fraction of that.
titaniumsnail
Not all land is suitable for growing food. Grassland used to feed cattle for example, and this skews the stats a bit.
lauraInternetJunkie
Like others I'd like to see links to these studies because I'm more sure how the maths work out here
donthaveonebrojustlurk
Don't forget about seaweed aquaculture!
Emriys
Vegans might be right, but their self rightous "in your face" attitude destroys any hope of arguing about it. Regulations have to hit 1/2
Emriys
the meat industry hard, makes meat more expensive, will change food behaviour in the population. Not "MEAT IS MURDER" and a bucket of paint.
Emriys
You know what fuck the 2/2 I'm on a rant here, that behaviour is so fucking common, pedal to the fucking metal instead of compromising
Emriys
like the fucking idiots that tried to get us to eat bugs, bugs are AMAZING! You can make flour-meat out of them and the steak tastes good!
Emriys
but how do those people try to convince others? BY SHOWING THEM FULLY FORMED BUGS TO EAT, fucking idiots, show people the end-product-
hillbillyhitler
Maybe you are upset because some people are making a more radical change? So it comes across to you as annoying?
Emriys
No why would that be annoying? It's annoying when they incessently talk about it. "Do you want meat?" "no I'm vegan" that should be the end.
GrumpyOldMillennial
Uh...you do realize the same destructive farming practices uses to grow crops for livestock are identical for vegan food...right?
skywards
If we ate all the crops directly instead of feeding livestock first, much less would be needed to provide everyone with enough food.
louster
Yep: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
donthaveonebrojustlurk
That's why I grow seaweed in the ocean....
GrumpyOldMillennial
In fact, the overwhelming drive for palm oil commonly used in vegan foods is catastrophically destructive to the environment.
skywards
Palm oil isn't only used in vegan foods. It's a valid problem, but not connected to veganism. It's used in everything because it's cheap.
Sendrax
"Real" vegans dont eat anything with palm oil (cause of environmental destruction) or honey in oit
lauraInternetJunkie
Hell I'm not even vegan and I'm actively avoiding it
GrumpyOldMillennial
Veganism is no more the answer than anything else. What is an answer is smarter, sustainable agro-tech.
donthaveonebrojustlurk
Seaweed aquaculture my dude
lauraInternetJunkie
Bugs also
TheWhiteBarry
Amazing I had to scroll this far to see reasonable discourse. Every comment from here up is vegans congratulating themselves for being vegan
hillbillyhitler
Omnis getting so triggered lol. Sorry science supports it and you don’t wanna change. It’s fine, but idk about refuting facts.
lauraInternetJunkie
We could have both. Go vegan until we can do better.