Srajo101
145001
1319
29
Feb 21, 2022 5:11 AM
Srajo101
145001
1319
29
onlysingalone
didnt they torture tens of thousands of Jews into converting to the catholic faith?
Tassyr
Waitwhat.
prolorus
They even told Columbus to stop his bloody and sexual degradations amongst the “Indios” of the New World
NotACanadian
New meme format dropped. Also, White Legend is just as cringe, if not moreso, than the "Black Legend".
BarkingBlackbird
Insensitive
I've been told the Spanish Inquisition never arrived unexpected, as they'd send out letters to their suspects before investigating them.
JDJersey
Unexpected
Radix865
Colopty
Asobi Asobase was a wild ride.
CandidGamera
Well, they were against the witch hunt craze because they wanted to maintain the monopoly of authority in those matters, not because they ->
CandidGamera
<- thought it was wrong. Their definition of what a "forced confession" was (and what wasn't) is not the most enlightened example of ->
CandidGamera
<- jurisprudence, to phrase it kindly. Also, without including how the executions were distributed attaching them to an arbitrary period ->
CandidGamera
<- of time to marginalize them is just manipulative statistics fuckery.
DontusetheMword
That's all news to me
UserWithoutUsername
Some source https://twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1189283980761354241
michealangleo
i dont remember her going to the library
HeDiedInABizarreGardeningAccident
Does the # executed by Henry count only the ones he personally ordered, or just anyone who happened to be executed in England at the time?
TheLowKing
Everyone, for anything. And it is one of the most unsubstantiated figures on the internet.
monkeyninja
It forcibly converted 200K Jews to Catholicism and expelled almost the same number. You and I are clearly reading different histories.
5050Saint
Same history. We can look at moments in history and condemn them while still seeing that at least something good came out of it.
monkeyninja
Same history, different perspective. I'm approaching it as someone who is Jewish. I'm guessing you are not.
5050Saint
I am not. But we can look at history and find the good in the bad. WWI was an entirely unnecessary war that ended far too many lives 1/?
5050Saint
and lead almost directly to the events of WWII, but it also led to women right to vote in at least the US and England. It's a good 2/3
5050Saint
thing to come out of a stupid and dark part of history that shouldn't be repeated. It, however, does not justify or excuse those evils. 3/3
Myrani
Plot Twist: the inquisition stopped the takeover of the world by the vicca and saved the average people from an enslaving sorcerer clan.
jesusisherelookbusy
gorgeousninja
Til killing 2,500 people and driving 1000’s more out your country shouldn’t be considered bad.
xython
Over 300 years? Centuries ago? Yeah, that shouldn't be considered bad.
dumidiot
Two things can be bad at the same time. And one of those things can indeed be worse than the other.
genepoolboy
Good thing you bought this up. This is widely unknown in the internet nowadays. Must increase awareness.
leadinurface
When all your neighbors are killing that many a year, it looks better, but still not good. No one said it was, just better than others.
UserWithoutUsername
The point is, spanish inquisition was not specially cruel. Fewer as in other countries. The mith was created by england, then the emerging
TheLowKing
*driving hundreds of thousands out, and killing at least 2,500, likely far more.
RogueLanguageModel
learn to read
westellar
Okay, but that's still like 8 people/year executed for "witchcraft". ... Unless they were executing actual criminals?
SilverHarvest
But did anyone expect it?
MithridateEupator
Probably not the Moors lololol
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Yes, dealing with them involved significantly more due process than almost any other contemporary religious enforcement agency
magila
Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition.
eppykaze
Everyone did as notice of arrival was required by law. Fleeing was seen as an admission of guilt.
Leejama
As I understand from QI, people were giving a few weeks to prepare their case.
Jafarce
I've been fed yet more misinformation
ialwaysexpectthespanishinqusition
I DID!
Fhant
Username begrudgingly checks out. Come Cardinal, we shall take our leave.
justmemyselfi
But- what about our comfy chair?
proracing53
pip1
Mmm they maybe didnt execute a lot of ppl but they sure did torture a lot of ppl
NoItWasTheOctopus
*fewer
BeverlyHillsBillie
So, is this the Vatican's version or does Wan Shi Tong need to quit watching Faux News?
NoNameFred
The Spanish Inquisition wasn't arranged by the Church, it was arranged by the Spanish Government; the Vatican had nothing to do with it.
Kurianichi
I expected how unexpecting this will be based on the title.
TheLowKing
To be clear, Henry executed around 60 people for Heresy. The "20x" refers to all capital punishment during his reign and is questionable.
ElRigs83
The Spanish Inquisition is no where near as horrific as there conquests in the Americas
MrsF1nch
According to what source? I'm kind of curious now
UserWithoutUsername
https://twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1189283980761354241
LooseyGooseyBrett
Etereo
This meme
Freak0zoid
Well, according to all sources, the street’s the place to go.
tippex9917
.
ThisIsAWasteOfMyTime
I hate saying "just google it", but in this case google literally any article on the Spanish Inquisition. (Or the inquisitions in general >
MrsF1nch
That's what I did and why I asked. Obviously what the inquisition did wasn't black and white. But where did you find that specific number?
ThisIsAWasteOfMyTime
as there were also the papal inquisitions etc.). The inquisition was a bureaucratic system that offered alternative to the lynch mobs that >
ThisIsAWasteOfMyTime
were going around, by establishing real judicial processes where people had a chance to defend themselves. While they did obviously engage >
ThisIsAWasteOfMyTime
in cruelties too, they've been overly demonized in order to revise history. The views of the church scholars, when it came to matters of >
ThisIsAWasteOfMyTime
superstition, were almost always more sane than those of the general public. e.g. initially the church said witches aren't real as the only>
EaNasirIsABastard
"Hold on,,,,, before we execute this guy we should make sure he is actually Jewish, let's make sure we aren't doing anything unethical here"
derekjohn
So Henry VIII had 50,000 people executed ? That's a lot, even including the 'Pilgrimage of Grace'. Can you substantiate that figure ?
TheLowKing
He didn't. The 50,000 figure is an unsubstantiated estimate off all people executed in England whilst he ruled, it gets misused.
ZeroHonour
That's 2-3% of the population. I'm calling BS.
Varenvel
it checkout , 57.000+- even , he was a twat.
ZeroHonour
Source?
Varenvel
https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-killer-king-how-many-people-did-henry-viii-execute , you can google it , a lot sources.
ZeroHonour
That seems more like 570, not 57,000.
derekjohn
NB this figure includes ALL executions, including those for criminal offences such as murder and theft. Not just treason and heresy.
Afewflowers
Still the point was to drive all the Jews and Muslims from Spain
godskook
A multi-country court system that only manages to execute a paltry 8.3 people per year is not a court who's "point" is to drive anyone.
Afewflowers
Yes, I'm sure the religious purification of a nation via terror is just misunderstood https://www.britannica.com/topic/Spanish-Inquisition
NotACanadian
If those tercioboos could read, they'd be very upset.
LusciousLucius
Yeah, it was particularly fucked up because Castile was one of the most religiously tolerant countries in Europe up till that point.
MithridateEupator
They didn't have much of a choice. They were constantly on the backfoot against the moors.
LusciousLucius
What are you talking about? On the backfoot? The Reconquista had already been finished for some time by the time of the inquisition.
LusciousLucius
Cordoba was conquered in the early 1200's. The Spanish inquisition started in the 1470's. By that point, all that was left was the tiny 1/2
LusciousLucius
Nation of Granada, and they were conquered in the 1490's. The S Inquisition was not necessary. Isabella and Ferdinand were just fanatics,2/3
TheLowKing
And entirely coincidently seize all their wealth and property.
Carnifici
I would say that drive out is too strong of a word, but yea, the ones that didn't want to convert were forced out. Safely, but forced out.
Afewflowers
'Safely' forced to leave everything behind? Also, even when conversion performed they were still harassed because of doubts about sincerity
eCheeseRunner
Lawful evil, got it.
Ohdearlordanothercat
I thought that was the Reconquista, intended to reclaim spanish lands from the Moors.
Afewflowers
The moors had been there for 1000 years and they were religiously tolerant so many Jews had immigrated there. The population was
Afewflowers
Very intermixed by that point. Ferdinand and Isabella started an inquisition to pursue what they considered Christian cultural purity
Afewflowers
*700 years
TheClockworkBird
Learned in a book about Jewish Pirates, Jamaica was asked to be kept free from the inquisition so Jews could have a safe haven!
afsdpckapjadfkasef
A lot of western history is basically centered on religious difference
DVSBSTrD
"Combating" the witch hunt craze? Remind me, what were all those people burned at the stake for?
potshot
Heresy. More accurately, renouncing christianity in favor of judaism or islam. Witchcraft was not something the Inquistion cared about.
IAmLookingForSomeoneToShareInAnAdventure
Witch hunts were rarely organised and state sponsored. For example in England in the 1600s the government took many steps to prevent
IAmLookingForSomeoneToShareInAnAdventure
Witch hunts in Lancashire as local people would just take a dislike to a certain neighbor and have them killed. James VI introduced a book
IAmLookingForSomeoneToShareInAnAdventure
On witch hunting techniques and methods to try and curb the rampant burnings ans hangings. So it's more complex than we think.
4vie
Don't know how true it is... but apparently the majority of English people subjected to the inquisition were acquitted.
LusciousLucius
England wasn't the focus of the Inquisition. It was mostly Cathars and Waldensians in France, Franciscans in Italy, Hussites in Bohemia, 1/2
LusciousLucius
Beguines in the Low Countries, and Jews & Muslims in Iberia. England was pretty free of the Inquisition for the most part. 2/2
4vie
Thank you for informing me, and by extension, anyone else who might read this! :)
Insensitive
Witch hunts were never endorsed by the Inquisition since the belief in witches itself was heretical. They didn't burn witches because
Insensitive
official doctrine says witches do not and cannot exist. True power only comes from God and the belief that some people get power from Satan
Insensitive
is heretical.
UserWithoutUsername
Main goal was finding jews and avoiding the spread of Luther Reform. There were not "Witch craze" in spain. Some hundreds in 300 years
Wormwood89
Heresy. It was a different crime than whichcraft. In fact, the belief in witches was considered heretical at the time.
JesaraB
Accusing someone of being a witch, meant you believed in witches, and often resulted in your execution, in the early inquisition.
pip1
Heresy. Which includes believing in sorcery. Yah. Witch burning is a protestant thing
Sauroctonus
Talking incendiary bushes, turning sticks into snakes, turning water into wine, healing people with only a touch... Sounds like sorcery.
pip1
Nopes. Those are miracles. Moses et al arent performing magic, they are just praying really hard. That's the point. Only God can do magic -
pip1
- The very thought that mortals can do the same outside God's providence is hereticals. Ppl got tortured for accusing others of witchcraft -
VanillaJester
The catholics burnt plenty of witches, too.
pip1
See my reply to ElMoppo
TypoNinja
The Catholic Church's position on witchcraft is that it does not exist. You're either preforming miracles by the power of God or a faker.
Txernobog
All the non-catolics from Spain, that included protestants. England expelled jews in 1290.