BelleDuBlerg
8238
525
15
Just bookmarking that tweet for the inevitable stupid responses and quotes.
Mar 26, 2026 1:44 AM
BelleDuBlerg
8238
525
15
Just bookmarking that tweet for the inevitable stupid responses and quotes.
OperatorWay
Seems like a lot of people have gone way too far with terrifying cosmetic procedures that nobody has ever found attractive and that certainly look nothing at all like (human) teenagers.
MacTually
Part of the problem here that's never discussed is that marketing is the true evil in the world when it's driven by capitalism.
Marketing is to capture the most capital. The largest demographic at all times with cash is the 18-25 year olds.
So marketing gives the world the perception that this is the standard we are all in and aging out of.
What would be better is to have a world not selling everything everywhere all the time for the highest gain and instead that tries to provide services.
NoIWillNotFixYourComputerWhenIComeOverForDinner
EmailFail
The cause and solution?
Servo87
Uhh... hate to break it to you. Women put more standards on women than men ever have. There's a reason men go deer in headlights when their girlfriends/wives ask them if they notice anything different.
TheMuellmann
Now ask the next question: Who put the standards into effect in the first place? Not me and you, sure, but also not women, generally. These are deeply ingrained habits we need to actively work to someday get rid of, or at least weaken. It won't do to leave it to women alone, much less if a majority of men does subscribe to these standards as well - look no further than TT, THT, RHM, FF etc. here on imgur.
IJustWantToMakeAComment
That makes me feel better thank you!
Chubs1646
Seems to be that some women tend to be like most republicans...hypocritical, lacking truth, cant see things that are staring them in the face, and want to blame a problem that they have on someone other than themselves. I dont honestly know a single man who REALLY cares if a woman has their hair done, nails done, lips done, makeup on, and top trending clothes on...YOU choose to take on that burden for your own self worth values. The epstein men are HORRIBLE. but im tired of all men getting blame
CheetosOnMyFingers
Not all men but always a man
TheMuellmann
I know that it is a popular opinion, and I understand the sentiment. But we are talking about norms that have been hammered into women for centuries, about generational programming. Changing it requires much more than "well I didn't do it" especially from men.
And yes, there are horrible people, men and women and anything in between. But dismissing all people because there are bad ones among them will not do if we want to make it any further.
Hercules99
Were?
azazyel
You could have just stopped after 'men'
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
While.True()
The full impact is stronger this way.
nihiltres
while(true) {…}
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Luckily I'm not a coder.
azazyel
If you say so, I don't really understand the point she's trying to make. All CIS men 'were' attracted to teenagers when were that age too
eronth
They're talking about the men who have global influence who have been trafficking teen girls (and younger). Idk if I buy that those are the men "setting" the global beauty standards.
EroticZombiePants
I think the point is body image standards are developed at a young age and a bunch of people seem to think those standards last for an entire lifetime instead of realizing people age.
biscuitgravyson3000
I think it goes both ways, but it certainly is convenient to blame the other sex for all your problems. Takes all the effort of thinking out of the equation.
TrueNorthernLights
You should check out the videos where they show how magazines like Cosmo alter the model on the front cover to an appearance no human woman could attain. No wonder women hurt themselves trying to be perfect.
Sonicschilidogs
And who edits Cosmo magazine? Men or women?
TheMuellmann
Okay, let's play: Why do they edit it like that?
Sonicschilidogs
To sell their magazines to their target audience, women.
TheMuellmann
Those magazines - much like most other publications - don't make their money selling paper, but selling add-space. Lots of money in that.
Now, who pays lots of money for advertisement in these magazines? Companies selling products to make women more attractive. LOTS of money in that.
Prize question: How to get women to keep buying expensive stuff to be more attractive?
ProfessorVanDiggenSagg
Since 2024, a woman called Willa Bennet. Before her, the chief editor was Jessica Giles.
SpaceHaggis
cool, dont then.
TheMuellmann
You realize these are mechanisms drilled in over centuries, right? Yes, many women judge or pressurize each other over their appearance. But they have never known a society where men don't generally do exactly that. Neither have their mothers or grandmothers.
It takes time to break these deeply ingrained patterns, and it is up to us men to actively open the space let their guard down.
To illustrate: Imagine social media being found to be toxic and exploitative. Easy to just "not"?
SpaceHaggis
nah its up to women to quit following trends. men dont care about it.
pleaseuseotherdoor
Spacehaggis is a pro troll who only wants to be awful. Best to ignore.
TheMuellmann
Don't really care - if any others read my comment and get some motivation to move things themselves, it's more than worth my 2 minutes.
Helixninja333
Some not even teenagers at nine and five years old. The Epstein class needs to be destroyed.
super3dcow
And eating newborns, presumably after fucking them too
awkungen42
If you think it stopped at that young, you don't know how horrificly vile some of these people are.
AngelBolen91
Wood chipper or pigs?
doctorId
Whichever one gets chosen, make sure they go feet first
nation543
Pigs will have an easier time eating what comes out of the wood chipper, but it could go in either order.
ArcUlfr
https://youtu.be/lix-vr_AF38
Rosferatu
Yes
Emjayen
But gamers and weebs have assured me that it's about historical accuracy and ackshully she's a 9000 year-old dragon that just so happens to inhabit the body of a 10 year-old girl, respectively.
pancreas
i'm pretty sure anyone prefers attractive characters, regardless of gender. also, counterpoint
apneax3n0n
do not worry. he is a good healer
Feralkyn
In case you're not being ironic: there are actual child characters that are defended as "okay because they're actually older in a child's body." Ex. in Interview With The Vampire, a... I think she's a six-year-old, Claudia, discusses sex a few times and starts seducing her victims, but it's "okay" because she's actually forty-something, despite having a child's body.
To note, that book series has a *lot* of rampant pedophilia and it's not written as a bad thing.
pancreas
(2) also worth mentioning, i was responding to that person as 2 separate statements. because im pretty sure the "9000 year old dragon" thing has nothing to do with the "historical accuracy" thing
pancreas
the previous person was antagonizing "gamers and weebs," and your example of that trope is a 50 year old book written by a woman. i feel like its not as common as people like to imagine
Feralkyn
I am... wildly confused as to how either of those factors would matter.
Sonicschilidogs
Having never read IwaV, just watching the movie, Queen of the Damned, and seeing small clips from my wife watching the show, they do address that. Like, in the show, she is pissed that she was turned so young because now that she is old enough to desire those interactions, the only people who want her are weirdos and creeps.
Feralkyn
That's fantastic. The books... did not. There were multiple pedophiles in them, and none them were written as though it were a bad thing, and it wasn't ever called out. If anything, Rice seemed to imply that it was a-okay that the ancient vampire keeping rooms of prepubescent orphans and grooming them was fine because he didn't actually touch them until they were of age (: That's not including quite a few other things. One scene I can't even describe without being banned, for sure.
I'm glad the
Feralkyn
show clarifies its stance against it.
BatmanAndCradleRobin
How did men set the standard though? My buds and I never discuss women's bodies, I have essentially never had any discussion with another man about women's bodies. From a man's perspective growing up I had seen my mom and sister basically commit psychological war crimes practically weekly over these things. As far as I can tell like 90% of women's body issues appears to be entirely enforced by other women. Men don't read fashion magazines, or makeup tutorials or that top model show or whatever.
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
How nice to be so blissfully ignorant of the patriarchy.
crazyspelling
Modern advertising aimed at women intentionally makes them feel bad about themselves to sell them things. Men write, cast, and shoot the ads. Rinse and repeat with fashion designers, and TV and movie casting agents. It's not rando dudes on the street making the standards.
frozenlake247
Yep, it’s almost identical to the situation with faux news and conservative men. It’s all about that self brainwashing effect manufactured by people in power to use psychology etc to pressure people into aggressively harming themselves and their own group in pursuit of social reward or avoidance of manufactured fears.
tollerscream
I don't know how to tell you this, but ALL the industries who push women's beauty standards are run by men. Make up companies, magazines, the music industry, hollywood, etc. Porn. It's all for the male gaze. In my opinion, the most damning evidence that women's beauty standards are run by men is that lesbians can look however they want, but gay men feel the pressure to be beautiful. To appeal to men. Lesbians don't need to appeal to men. So yeah, imo it's men controlling this.
TheMuellmann
Enforced by women, still set by men - keep in mind that this is a process established for and over a very long time. Men have set the rules for how women should look and dress for many centuries, and not only for aesthetic reason, but very much as a tool of oppression and control.
This runs deep in the unconscious, and we can't blame women for continuing a mechanic hammered in over generation. Neither should we blame men (as a whole) - but we all need to actively work towards getting rid of it.
frozenlake247
Well said.
TheMuellmann
Thanks. I feel this can't be expressed clear - or often - enough.
Ristari
Sorry, growing up you were never around men/boys that would rate women? Say what they would do to them? Talk about if they were a boob or ass or whatever man? If you genuinely didn't, I imagine you are in the minority
Me1iss0
Watch Mad Men. It is advertising and men absolutely controlled advertising for many years. Men may not read women’s magazines but they used the be instrumental in designing all ads for men and women alike on every available platform. There is a bit more gender equality in the marketing industry now but the damage has been done, slow to fix.
pancreas
on top of that, i'm pretty sure i've never heard a man say they like women getting botox procedures, and full of plastic
123sigh
Have you seen Jeff Bezos’s wife? Or the Mara Lago ladies?
vonHoopla
So this is actually a pretty interesting thing: you don't get those ads, but some other ppl do. This is due to the invention of targeted advertising. First by geography, then socioeconomic group, the by Internet address. They've been refining it for decades, and that you haven't seen, but others have, is a testament to how much of your private data/ browsing history / phone logs they've stolen to build a good picture of what is worth advertising to you.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
But there are plenty of men who tell women they're unfuckable or un-marriageable beyond a certain age. Or uncastable, for that matter. Studio execs decide who we see on the big screen in roles that call for attractive women, such as the love interest / arm candy of some 70+ year old 1980s star. And of course they can't be a day older than 30. Look at how fucked in the head men like DiCaprio are who grew up in this milieu and dump their girlfriends before they turn 25.
zanli
They set the standard for centuries through marriage, and therefore being attractive enough to attract a husband, being the only route to economic stability for women. And today by dumping their wives in favour of a younger model when they get the chance, or firing women newscasters when they start to show the odd wrinkle or refuse to dye their grey hair.
frozenlake247
This. Don’t need to be actively awful to be part of the problem once the setting and culture are manufactured so that anything short of active resistance or open non-compliance sustain and empower the system.
dreikommavierzehn
Different groups of people, different age interactions between age groups, leading to different experiences.
Friends I've had when I was younger would constantly remark and point out who they find sexually attractive and want to sleep with. Not unlike the countless comments on social media thirst trap posts (even here on imgur, like "would").
Later on it seemed new people I met weren't like that. Until I sat with another group of 30 year olds. And them fawning over 18-20 y/o without pause.
dreikommavierzehn
If it matters: The presence of female friends rarely changed that behaviour in our male friends. At best they only toned it down a little bit or acted more secretive (emphasis on 'acted').
Because of our age group, the preferred body type was exactly the problematic 90s bulemic model type. Not that this behaviour is better with any other standard, but it's noteworthy for obvious reasons
BatmanAndCradleRobin
Its a meme that men don't even notice hair cuts or clothes changes. How can we be oblivious to whether or not a woman is even wearing makeup and also somehow this omnipresent arbiter or what a woman should look like.
frozenlake247
That’s why there has been such an effort to “train/indoctrinate” women to enforce those standards on each other.
Again class war is ultimately the issue.
Average guys are terrible at enforcing gender issues in most cases as described & under the general “I love
women” sense. Pressuring women to compete w/ each other works better both in the “takes 1 to know 1” and “divide and conquer” sense.
It also leaves avg guys to “benefit” from the system and enforce it as actively/passively as suits.
frozenlake247
I’d argue the whole “manosphere” situation and traditional “toxic masculinity” are largely similar efforts to create arbitrary systems of culture that indoctrinate men into forcing conformity to profitable and easily controlled patterns onto each other. Again it’s much more effective than only training women to enforce standards on men.
Much more “divide” for much easier “conquest” if the divisions/conflicts are within the groups AND between groups.
Zamerine
Culture, fashion design and basic capitalism.
neithermenoryou
The people with power dictate those things. The models hired for beauty ads, movies, etc are all vetted and selected by the men owning those companies. And this has happened for a long time, so adult women know the rules to get a life that isn't just being stuck in poverty and then teach those to their daughters so they can have a better life. It's like victims of domestic abuse, if the victim can't leave they will adapt to abused as little as possible and the kids learn the same lessons. They
neithermenoryou
will, in effect, start to regulate themselves. This is why often the first victim of domestic abuse (often the wife) will then also abuse her children in the hopes that this means the husband won't abuse either them even worse. It's a pretty insidious cycle. If you're curious there is some great feminist literature on all of this out there that illuminates those things, as well as how this is also used to push men into very similar behaviors (men aren't allowed to cry in public and similar).
calebIsOnFire
Media sets social expectations and often does so without your realizing it.
vonHoopla
In case you are srs/ woosh: they specifying men who are attracted to teenagers is in reference of the Epstein Files, where the vast majority of rich and powerful ppl, many who were in the media, fashion, etc industry, were found to be pedos. Those ppl tell women what they should be, and men what they should like, via subtle means that might not work on everyone but work on more than enough ppl, so they can most efficiently take your money. That's all.
TheMuellmann
As much as I back your point up: Let's not reduce it to the Epstein people alone. These are mechanisms established over many centuries, and young women - and yes, children - have been a target for probably ever. It's up to us to not let up on Epstein, but also keep our eyes open in everyday life, and not only for grave misconduct, but for seemingly small examples of the reduction of women and girls as sexual objects.
spinbutton3
The media, my friend...advertising, social media, movies, TV, magazines, etc.
FoxPesdassi
You can see the effect for yourself, and even vote on it, right HERE, on every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, & Friday, and to a more limited extent on Wednesdays.
zombiejedediah
HesRightYouKnow.gif
calebIsOnFire
Yep. don’t like selfies on imagur! unless is a woman being sexual for our entertainment …..
123sigh
I would like to upvote this reply 100 times. How do guys think women feel when you upvote cleavage pictures and made crude replies? Are we supposed to think that men appreciate anything other than our bodies?
BatmanAndCradleRobin
That is a good point, but it doesn't feel like the same thing to me. That to me at least is not men saying women have to look like this, if anything they are kinda the opposite in a celebratory way of enjoying beauty of many different types of women, but that also in not quite true either since its still a subset of women. It is still covering I think a pretty broad set of categories of body shape and sizes and ages and colours, damn near all of them if some to a significant less degree.
Meklorinon
This!!! Thank you!
ArcUlfr
I've noticed that many, possibly most, heterosexual men choose who to pursue a relationship with based primarily or even exclusively on appearance.
frozenlake247
While my sample set is pretty definitely biased by avoiding interaction with dudes that act/talk like appearances are the ONLY important criteria, I would say it still seems more accurate to say that most guys treat physically attractive appearances as a something of a “pre-requisite”.
I wouldn’t say only pursuing relationships with people one finds physically attractive is BAD, though how what is seen as attractive is definitely a problem in much of society.
crazyspelling
Women can be shallow too. It's not like Elizabeth Bennet was attracted to Mr. Darcy's charismatic presence.
ArcUlfr
I don't disagree with your first point, but you chose one of the worst examples to back it up that I can think of. She was still actively hostile to him even after she knew that he was wealthy, so it obviously wasn't money that she cared about. Her opinion of him changed after it came out that he had helped her sister and tried to keep it a secret, meaning that he wasn't doing it in order to affect her opinion of him.
crazyspelling
Yeah I fucked that up.
PanNonOpticon
Except men aren't homogenous group on what they find attractive. Tall ones, shorts ones, blondes, redheads, asian, caucasian, small breast, big breasts, men are all over the place.
Can you image a tall short woman with red blonde hair with small and big breast. That is the image men set to women.
ArcUlfr
Can you imagine female lead characters in movies having the variety of body types seen in male lead characters? There are no female equivalents to the Jack Black type lead, and there aren't really any for the Hugh Jackman type, either. Female characters who look like that generally aren't allowed anywhere near the lead role, and something like a gender-swapped Beauty and the Beast is right out.
PanNonOpticon
Melissa McCarthy, Rebel Wilson, Queen Latifa... And Inb4, "Not A-listed", well neither is Jack Black.
And I fail to see how this has anything to do with your claim: "I've noticed that many, possibly most, heterosexual men choose who to pursue a relationship with based primarily or even exclusively on appearance." Where I commented that mens tastes varies a lot.
BatmanAndCradleRobin
Yes I would agree with that. I don't think that has anything to do with what is described on this post or my comment though?
ArcUlfr
You asked how men set the standard. Choosing who to pursue for a relationship is part of that, but not nearly all of it. Girls are inundated with examples of how they 'should' look, on television, billboards, movies, and games, pretty much from day 1. Women have only gained any real control over a fraction of that relatively recently, and it's still assumed that a female lead in a movie will be conventionally attractive in a way that is not required of a male lead (just as an example).
ArcUlfr
You are correct that it isn't the average man driving that, but it does seem like the average man shares the same ideals as the people making the decisions. Whether the decisions are driven by popular opinion or popular opinion is shaped by the media, however, I'm not sure (possibly both?).
BatmanAndCradleRobin
I have complex feelings on this that I am having trouble articulating even to myself. Largely men do not attempt to change how they look to attract a woman, I think we largely just accept that we will only be found attractive to a small percentage of women and let that percentage find us. This is changing with looks maxing shit. I think what I am saying is I would expect nothing less from women, just look how you look attract who you do. I don't expect high heels or makeup etc. 1/2
BatmanAndCradleRobin
What I think I have observed however, is that women police how they look within their own groups and amongst each other that men just do not do to each other, and largely as far as I can tell not toward women. Men will select whoever they find attractive and hope they find them attractive, I don't think anywhere in there is the need for the psychological trauma that is a woman's experience to look beyond what they look like, and I propose on top of that, that men mostly miss it anyway.