Me1iss0
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There is inevitable and heartbreaking loss at almost every stage of IVF treatments (retrieving eggs) and implantation procedures (putting embryos in the womb) but some people have no other way to get pregnant. When harvesting eggs only some will be mature no matter how many drugs you take. Numbers of success have gone up as the science has improved so about 80% of mature eggs survive fertilization, but now we are dealing with embryos technically and this is where things get complicated. Only about 40-50% of embryos make it to days 5-7 or what is called the blastocyst phase or the “blast phase.” This is unbelievably hard for people who have worked so hard to get this far and now doctors/nurses could become criminals bc they CANNOT change this. We do not want to lose these embryos, they are our chances at having our deeply wanted babies but this is part of a natural process that weeds out non-viable pregnancies and this happens in the womb as well, women typically produce more than one egg and but usually only one or two eggs mature to make it to natural ovulation during a normal pregnancy. The medications we take for IVF can help people produce more eggs but more often they are just helping mature more of the eggs you already produce every month, especially as you get older. We want quality over quantity but both help.
The ruling in Alabama has shut down clinics already bc they cannot avoid embryo death, it happens in pretty much every IVF cycle ever done, and if there was a way to stop this we would but this will likely always be the case even as the science improves bc it is a natural part of procreating. We want healthy pregnancies for parents who WANT to have kids, not forced birth for unprepared parents…
I am in my late 30s and I have fallopian tube issues causing me to have two fallopian ectopic implantations that were not able to be saved bc once an embryo has implanted outside of the womb it is not viable no matter how much you want that baby. I have to have two different emergency surgeries to have one and then the other of my tubes removed so I didn’t bleed to death or die of infection, whatever comes first. My first IVF cycle retrieval (yesterday) yielded only 3 mature eggs and now they have to go through the fertilization process were I may lose half, I am hoping for two embryos to make it to the blast stage but that is against the odds. If there was ANYTHING me or my doctors could do to improve my chances we would, trust me! I know adoption is a good option but that is not what we are talking about here, that will be my only option if IVF fails for me bc I do not plan to use donor eggs or embryos, that is a personal choice. In the state of Colorado, since I am diagnosed with infertility, I get three IVF rounds and unlimited embryo implantations covered by my insurance and I will give it my best shot, everyone suffering from infertility, regardless of gender, deserves this chance to not only try IVF but to have their insurance cover it bc it is a treatable disorder that is becoming increasingly common due to environmental factors and how many people are waiting to start families until they are more stable in life. I also had a spine injury requiring surgery that set me back in starting this process.
If any fertilized eggs make it to the blast phase then we get to implant. Implantation is tricky and the numbers can be slightly higher for success here but there is still loss, not all of them make it, maybe close to half or a bit more. These embryos also may die in the womb which is why when IVF was starting out they used to implant a bunch and see what stuck (see octomom and the many IVF patients with twins). Freezing embryos is also needed since we are not implanting them all at the same time anymore and these freezing methods have greatly improved over time, but there can be heartbreaking loss here too. Since I have a spine injury, I am a tiny person, and “of an advanced maternal age,” multiple births is risky and we will be implanting one at a time (if I get any viable blast phase embryos) with waiting being the hardest part. I want a baby so bad, I have been though a lot to get here and it already looks like I will be gearing up for another round of IVF due to low numbers. We will change up the medications and hope for a better result.
Other people’s religious believes have no place in my process with my doctors around IVF. If YOU don’t believe in IVF or other pregnancy interventions such as abortion, then you don’t have to participate and I do not need to be told what to do with my body, or have embryos defined by non-medical religious cunts who daily contradict themselves in their mission to control others especially women and LGBTQAI+ ppl. I want to be a mom so bad, I want to be pregnant and let my body go through this process, and yes I want a baby with my goofy genes. I am prepared and if I ever want a 2nd kid I will adopt bc of how difficult this process is for me and I can’t really hope for two babies, one is good enough.
I have been injecting medications morning and night for the past two two weeks with appointments across the city every other day or every day at the end. I am bruised from the injections and all the blood tests, I am bloated and tired. But I will fight for other people to not only have to chance to do this but to also someday have it covered by their insurance, this is the way. If someone if strong enough to get through this process and they get lucky enough to make it to a healthy birth, why not let them? What not make it more accessible rather than less? WHO CARES what you ancient books say? This did not exist in ancient times, and if infertility is god’s will then so is every other treatable condition and that is insane. We do not have to suffer and die, our medical system here in America is already messed up and that is an understatement. With monthly payments included, I spend around 10,000$ on healthcare a year and that is considered a low cost for IVF so I am lucky! People die and suffer from treatable diseases every year and that needs to end. I am ready to fight and hopefully I get to do that with my own kid at my side to show them how we can make the world a better, safer, happier place for them in the future. Universal healthcare and body autonomy now! This is just the start of what we need to change in this country…
We are going to need more people to get back on the same page and start working together to vote politicians out who seek to control others especially under the guise of religion, we need to enforce separation of church and state now. We need to reform the already problematic policies around healthcare so this doesn’t continue to be the modern dark ages of the USA where the working class suffers and even dies due to the rich taking more than their fair share, getting all the opportunities and luxuries, and finding every tax loophole that shouldn’t exist. We need all politicians to stop taking money from corporations who care only about quarterly profits are returns for shareholders bc we live in a finite world where infinite growth is not even possible. We need to stop allowing lobbying aimed to make us more sick, broke, desperate, and divided. Please vote but also speak up, share your stories bc we need more ppl to understand the hardships we are all facing. Thank you for reading
Beanie baby tax bc I am an elder millennial FP edit: Thank you for the conversation and distraction today. Please excuse my typos, I’m dyslexic and on mobile things are hard to edit. All three of my eggs fertilized but I have to wait until this time next week for an update and likely will lose one or two. It was amazing to hear some of your stories, the good, the sad and the angry. Take care of each other and do not be afraid to speak out, we have work to do people.
Columbus43219
Wasn't "Jesus" in that bill like eight times?
CedricDur
You can simply lead by 'imagine the cringe of being in 2024 and believing in gods and magic and angels'.
crossingdynasty
First they came for the people who didn’t want kids, now they’re here for the people that DO want kids
Godawful8888
Not everyone who has an abortion doesn't want kids. Some don't want kids because of timing, partners, finances, education, etc. Doesn't mean that won't change in the future. Most who have an abortion have kids or go on to parent them in the future
BlueStripedTwink
They look like shrimps, can I eat one?
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Just leave these shitholes and let them tear themselves apart.
db629
RockKickass
But it does, and people need to realize that and vote
KidCharlemagne524
"I'm on a diet, therefore nobody is allowed to eat cake."
Shaodyn
If your church says you can't do something, that means you specifically. It doesn't mean you can stop anyone else from doing it.
Shaodyn
Even other people who belong to your church. It's not your job to police other people's behavior.
Saxytimes
They don't understand that literally every pregnancy likely comes with several embryo deaths
darthnerdus6236
Abortion happens along the way if too many take. A lot of people in these situations are already high risk and can't carry a literal litter. It mitigates the risks for mom and improves the odds of the remaining embryos. There's a reason octomom is such an outlier.
Ionico
Well
onecatnokids
after years of working in social services and just getting older, I have to ask: if babies are a gift from god, can someone explain to me the decision process for getting one. Why do my stable, church going neighbors not get one and the woman I saw at work has 5 in foster care and another on the way.
UnluckyLunkhead
Replace every instance of 'religion' with 'superstition'. Then it begins to make sense.
pareidoliaperson
Yet people only criticized Christianity and Islam and left Judaism untouched. And now they feel like "shooting someone in time square and no one will bet an eye".
mercyPandaRunner
Who is "they" that feel like that? It's not a gotcha, i'm just not sure what you're getting at.
cbjfan
Maybe because the GOP are run by Christians
anitabieror6
i thought those were chicken toenails...
derekjohn
I think 21st C Pastors should remember that their 1st C prophet believed that life begin after the child took its first breath, not before.
derekjohn
* they should also remember the Bible does contain instructions on how to bring about an abortion: Numbers 5 19-22.
Dociousaliexpilisticfragicalirepus
That is Patty the mother fucking platypus and she’s a SAINT.
Kreviathan
#3 Current conservative politicians believe this isn't the true interpretation of "separation of church and state". They believe it only means the government needs to stay out of the church, of course. They say as much at rallies and on live tv. They're a bunch of Seven Mountain Mandate cultists.
Heavenissize17socks
Alabama needs to either reverse its position on IVF or have its statehood revoked.
Boppster
How does ONE PERSON make a decision that affects MILLIONS of people!? WTF :o(
Endonae
Are you being serious?
FairfaxJack
More to the point: God doesn't exist and every single word ever written about "god" is delusional nonsense
infrazab
By the rationale that unfertilised egg is human, Make male masturbation illegal. Bam.
johndoejersey05
It's never been about religion for conservatives, and it never will be. It'll always be about power and control. You need to stop taking their faux religious shell game in good faith and focus on their motives. Do that, and all the hypocrisy, cruelty, and lies start to make perfect, horrible sense. It's all about power and control.
engineeringwombocombo
Bodily autonomy is the only discussion that should be happening. A pregnant women has less rights than a corpse and that should be the only talking point discussed. Dont even dignify the religion angle with a response. You cannot legally take organs out of my body after i die, even to save a life that will ONLY be saved with my organs. Stop the discussion there.
amb1021
Plus they absolutely loathe women and girls and really enjoy hurting them.
DarkDuskBlade
But for their supporters, it is. Most of them don't think beyond the interpretation of the religion they're given. They, naively, want to save people's souls. They think the rules that they put on themselves because someone they perceived as an authority figure are virtuous, feel confident/validated, and want to spread that. It doesn't make them any less heinous, but I'm not comfortable assigning malicious when well-meaning stupidity is just as likely. B/c stupidity can't be argued against
Me1iss0
Of course they are using their religion as a smokescreen, just read the Alabama ruling and you can see religion is their only excuse. We have rules in place around separation of church and state and we need to start enforcing again. With that out of the way it would be even more clear this is about control and hatred of certain groups. If god speaks to you, then you have mental health issues and do not need to be making decisions for other people, simple as that.
karlostroski
I think for a meaningful section of conservatives (not majority) it IS about religion but with a poor theological framework of ethics / social good that then get co-opted by money and power without them realizing it. Not excusing them, to be clear. You have my compassion, @OP - remembering my family journey for children and how for many it’s often long, hard, and full of so much unknown. Sorry you’re caught in this drama - it really, really sucks.
johndoejersey05
Thinking that only serves to remove agency from people that 100% have it. Yes, there are folks with mental illness whose agency is compromised, but those people are a very small percentage of conservatives. Look real close at videos of comedians who talk to "regular" conservatives. Those people know they're hypocrites, and they don't care. Being associated with that in-group gives them a semblance of power and means to control others.
theduckening
We constantly hear about things that are lost in translation. And my main issue there is that we have texts based on 17th century that was translated from Greek which was translated from Hebrew at very different times. So let's say there wasn't any "localizer/translator bias" and it remained as faithful to the source. You get meaning that was lost to time and culture.
jrredneck
It all depends on which translation you use. Some translate from one translation which used another which used another. Those are not very reliable. While others go and used the orginal texts and some a little newer for what is missing. There will always be some nuances lost in translation, but that is why translating bools cant be done in one day, it takes time to figure things out.
Fizzypeach
Man I wish i could upvote this more than once!!!!
BleedingQuasar
hiiamluciole
i am sorry you had to have two abortions when there were surely idiots picketing your hospital telling you you shouldn't kill your baby.
i understand you wish to be pregnant till term once.
i admire your compassion for other people "just because".
i hope it turns out the way you want.
keep us posted please and we wish you and your family the best.
AsAnItalianItsDifficultTalkingOnTheWebCauseIcantUseMyHands
Pregnancy is a human right, and so is abortion. It really is that simple
cmsport2
I've never understood how reproducing is a human right. I'm not trying to be hateful when I say that, I just keep trying to understand, because it seems to be a common belief that I don't share. In natural selection, animals that reproduce viable, healthy offspring capable of having more healthy offspring add to the overall genetic health of the species. I know it sounds cruel to think people who can't reproduce naturally probably shouldn't, but I sincerely don't understand why and I want to.
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
Also in 04' TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO a journal disproved that we are born with all the eggs we'll EVER have. We DO produce more eggs in our lifetime!!! Yet clinics STILL tout that we don't, despite 40yr+ olds getting OHSS and kicking out 40+ oocytes in a cycle. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/120229-women-health-ovaries-eggs-reproduction-science
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
16 states provide IVF coverage and require IVF coverage at businesses of 50+ people. If your work doesnt cover IVF, getting insurance through the state may. Check your area. And for those who want children, but don't have $26k to burn on private adoption, and ivf is not viable, fostering to adopt through the state is FREE, and sometimes you'll even receive money to help cover expenses for the child's care. I wish I could convince my spouse on this. I hope the best for you all and OP.
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
I've had 6 ivf retrievals (1 natural w/no anesthesia) a few iuis and transfers and some other treatments if anyone has questions. I had 3 rounds of IVF in Kazakhstan. It was $3k. ~10% of the base cost of getting IVF in the US. Mexico may be a viable alternative to US clinics if paying out of pocket. The mechanics of IVF are not that difficult and international clinics can be equal to or better than US clinics. Where I went in Kazakhstan was bougie nice, they always put my care first.
RedWingedBlackbirds
I thank you @op for such a detailed and well written post. I do believe in God, and that is a personal relationship for me, emphasis on "personal." Whatever my beliefs, I do not believe that I have any right whatsoever to try and impose those on anyone. And I also wish you all the best, and I pray that you are successful in getting pregnant and having your own child. Much love to you
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Me1iss0
Let’s play nice, we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Let other people believe and let’s make a better world together. We need closer to everyone if we are going to make meaningful change even after this next shitshow of an election, there is work to do.
wissele89
That's right. Freedom of what we believe and still having the ability to respect and play nice with those who think differently is a vast part of getting through this. I also posted another comment about why my wife and I decided not to have children and how my sister struggled and had a few ectopic pregnancies herself then after rounds of IVF was able to conceive her son Carmen. I have faith in our science that you will be able to conceive. I wish you the best of luck
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CedricDur
Politically correct answers like 'everyone is free to worship what they want'. Fuck sakes. I mean, sure, they can. And we can still laugh about it. Kids are told Santa isn't real and an adult believing in Santa and making a church for Santa would be called mentally slow, but if it's an invisible skydaddy then it's a-okay because we can worship what we want.
AdmiralJohn
No we're not, because we understand religion is a deeply personal thing and that every person has the right to worship (or NOT worship) as they see fit. We're mostly laughing at you because you sound like a spiteful person who can't fathom someone who disagrees with you.
Choiced
Please keep speaking your truth. The people who represent you are all too adept at drowning out love with hate.
Wirefish
This is totally valid. “I don’t want my religion afflicting other people but I’m gonna vote for the ‘my religion fucks others over’ party” is a hypocritical position (and therefore very easy for many of the christianists I’ve met to hold in their heads).
Choiced
This. I never wanna throw flak at a Christian who condemns the atrocities their leaders are committing, but it makes me ask some hard questions, like: "Why is your position completely absent from political discourse? Are you OKAY with the way those representing you are perverting your religion? You do realize that since there's no Christian kickback, the complete, entire Earth sees you as in support of the rampant pedophilia, authoritarianism, and blatant Constitution violations that (1/2)
Choiced
Christianity has come to represent....right?" (2/2)
Wirefish
My gut feeling is that yes, most of them are perfectly fine with that. That’s what I’ve observed.