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Jan 30, 2024 6:50 PM
Soldatze
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rijstewafels
Well yes but actually no
JBFrawg
This reminds me of something.... Something current and ongoing....
GrandAdmlStrife
*sigh* he is a Holocaust survivor who sees that world governments are clearly taking the same steps towards mutantkind as 1930s Nazi Germany took towards Jews, and wants to prevent it. Eventually he finds himself becoming a mutant supremist, fighting to rule the world as a master race
TheStateVsThomasLight
Maybe as a metaphor for the cyclical nature of vengeance?
Spoonland
sircowdog
When seeking revenge, first dig two graves.
gonzar09
Then dig the rest, cuz there's gonna be a lot of bodies by the time he's done.
MachineInterface
"Suffering doesn't make people better. It just makes them suffer" - Art Spiegelman
Stoneagedudeman
Pretty sure he used the genocidal experience as justification to preemptively defend his out group. He saw what happens when you trust people to be good. He know prefers to just force the goodness.
Morpheaus
Fuck, in the third movie, the dude had tried to settle down in a relatively small town, married, had a daughter, and was living a very simple life amongst non-mutant people he had befriended. He'd also stopped using his powers, except for the one time he used them to save a co-workers life, which then caused the men he worked with to show up at his property, armed, and demanding answers.
Rasdwatrium
is that Netanyahu?
SgtFumble
Magnetanyaho
Huor
I mean it's not really that simple, is it?
OliverOtter
Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel said that victims weren't automatically good. In fact, the survivors were more often than not survivors specifically because they were the ones who did whatever it took to survive. He gave an example of a boy who was raped in the camp, and the rapist disposed of the evidence by throwing the boy's shoes into a fire. The guards would see he lost his shoes and couldn't work, and shoot him the next morning. The boy survived by beating another boy unconscious (1/2)
OliverOtter
and stealing his shoes, condemning an innocent boy to die so he could live. But had he not victimized someone else, if he had done the "good" thing, he would have died. It wasn't his fault, he didn't choose to be put in the situation of having to do that to live, but he still did it. (2/2)
gobblinal
Abuse begets abuse.
IOftenDeleteCommentsCauseISuckAtTyping
Idk ask the IDF
tarask
He knew another Holocaust was coming and he wanted to be the Holocauster instead of the Holocausted this time.
espi0920
I know we aren't supposed to, but I actively root for Magneto.
AutoFox
Magneto Was Right
DemonKysho
Lets get past the fact comics are inconsistent. Magneto and Xavier represent two leaders that both want peace.
Xavier wants to give as many chances to humanity to see that we aren't different and can be better. A passive way to peace
Magnus on the other hand saw that if you give people enough rope they use it against you. That mutants need to be able to stand up and defend themselves if necessary for the right to exist. But humanity tests him and he has an answer.
DemonKysho
Hide away? Sentinel program. Find an island to live in peace? Get invaded. THEY FOLLOWED HIM TO THE MOON. Get depowered? Put them in camps.
Don't you think he called xavier at any point "Bro I tried to do it your way and they want to see the other side of me." Which xavier knows full well thats gonna be used against him.
jethroismaxbaer5772
I love one line from the cartoon- You want me to wage war against 6 billion humans?!
It was interesting to see that Xavier was trying a different route of convincing Magneto to ease up.
surprisinglynotmyrealname
Oh I guess magneto is Israeli
ICannotSanctionURBuffoonery
It's cliché, but "Hurt people, hurt others" applies. Magneto is an incredibly well defined character, and X-Men writers treating their readers like intelligent adults. Weaving serious issues into "children's stories" has been the secret to the success of the franchise.
Meanwhile, DC is still trying to figure out how to make the simplest character ever written "relevant" to modern audiences.
germican12
Iran literally right now.
Howlingowl
Genocide or be genocided
CivilRationality
My favorite thing about Magneto in the X-Men movies is that his origins are a Holocaust Survivor. They know that. We know that. But... for some reason, they want to avoid any hard reference to it after he gets out of the camp - where as the cartoon (90's) leans right into it.
RuPaulsWig
Obviously an allegory for Israel
necessity
Went looking for this and had to scroll WAAAY too long to find it.
PlayerBhatin
To be fair when Porf X is like "Trust the Humans blah blah blah." Magneto is like "Mofo I lived through the holocaust, you grew up in NEW MEXICO!"
reminds me of when Storm talks to Rogue about curing mutations
HeadJamistan
Johnny Five-Dicks is on Storm's side
semperknight
As far as original Erik is concerned, regular humans ALWAYS strike first. First movie: mutant registration act led by senator who admits he'll use it against them. Second movie: frame innocent mutant of attacking president, send armed men into school to kidnap, build machine to kill all mutants. Third movie: Government sanctioned weapon to permanently take away mutants gifts. In every movie, all Erik does is respond with EXACTLY the same force.
NeynasGhost
He still doesn't really have the moral high ground considering the whole "used Rogue cuz he didn't want to die in his mutation machine but he was cool w killing an unwilling teenager" then he and Mystique bullied her in the next movie for the white streaks in her hair...that she had because of him using her in his deadly mutation machine...
DemonKysho
IdiotSavantTinker
He's paying attention, and sees that again, his people (mutants, this time) are going to be "registered", and he's got enough pattern recognition to see where that leads.
jackal12345
Plus his daughter was murdered by a mob when the town found out he was a mutant even though she was pure human.
NeynasGhost
Well, I don't know that there's any evidence she was actually human as opposed to "not manifesting powers yet". Many mutants don't start showing it until they hit their teens or their first big trauma, and all three of his other kids have powers, including (ESPECIALLY) the two who are her full siblings. Mutant or not, though, the mob killing her just because of who her dad was remains unconscionable.
jackal12345
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e078376ebfec32a22d7f914a8d38ad6e Just before I quit reading Marvel comics cause they went stupid with constant back to back world changing events among other things.
NeynasGhost
So there's one universe where she's confirmed human, at least. Hard to believe that THE Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver's big sister is a non-mutant, with the exact same parents as them. Then again, people think the exact same thing when they compare me and my parents to my older sister, lol. We get a lot of "you're SURE nobody's adopted or something?"
OhIfIMust
NGL, if I had serious superpowers, my pattern recognition would have led me to take action on a few things a long time ago.
IdiotSavantTinker
Especially Magneto's power, if not his silly name.
Avilan1972
In most instances in the comics, he fights to get everyone to leave mutants alone, not kill every human or forcefully mutate every human. The movies make him genocidal while in the comics he is a terrorist / freedom fighter not a genocidal maniac. And sometimes it is even obviously self defense, like when a Soviet nuclear sub is shooting first, he just takes control of the missiles and make them turn around and hit the sub.
Sageypie
Magneto had a pretty big character arc in the comics where he kind of realized what he was becoming, with him fighting to eliminate humans. Want to say the start of it came about when he ended up injuring Kitty Pryde pretty badly, and him realizing that she was also jewish. Whole thing ended with him turning himself in to the world court to face trial over his actions. Want to say it was the start of his flipping between villian and anti-hero that he's done ever since.
xizar
I remember Mag trying to heal colossus (he killed a whirlwind guy and got ginsu'd, fucking up his metal body) but it also paralyzed him.
samwyze
This made me look up if the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants had a rebranding, and it did! "So what's with the 'Evil' in your organization's name?" "Ugh, This again. Listen, at the time humanity was calling all mutants evil, so we decided to embrace it, ironically. You guys took it literally, so we dropped it, okay?"
Avilan1972
Heh yeah the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants has strong Decepticon vibes, doesn't it? "Vote Decepticon! We Keep Our Promises!"
RenaldoMooon
X-Men First Class also demonstrated Erik would benefit from Anchor Management classes.
WrongUn
Was that a mistype or sick reference to when he tries to stop the submarine from escaping?
RenaldoMooon
Sick reference.
evilspyre
I didn't realise he was a sailor in need of boat type skills.
RenaldoMooon
It’s a dad joke. There’s a scene where a vengeful Magneto cuts a yacht in half using the anchor chain.
nothingunused
Nah, these are classes Ron Burgundy takes so he can move up in the studio hierarchy.
Freyja33
Magneto's actions were consistently far more justified than what the IDF is doing
ballsoutflyer
Only one was justified - the coin through Shaw. What he did to those politicians, maybe.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Maybe. But like the IDF with Hamas, his actions played right into the hands of X-gene-demonizing demagogues. They portrayed mutants as a threat to humanity and Magneto consistently proved them right. In fact, they might not have been able to escalate things to the level of mutant-hunting sentinels if it hadn't been for Magneto's brotherhood of… sheesh, I never realized how on the nose this is. Hamas is as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. "Of evil mutants". Not exactly subtle, Marvel
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
But of course it's not an entirely unfair allegory either. After all resistance movements don't blow up school buses full of kids. And then all mutantkind suffered for the actions of a few terrorists. I mean, Lee & Kirby were clearly sympathetic to their mutant lead characters and very much against the far-right government forces who sought to detain and/or mass murder them, and they didn't spare the Holocaust comparisons. But at the same time they condemned Magneto's actions. It's genius really
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
And of course the allegory works for many other persecuted minority groups. All good art is wide open to interpretation. Yet when it comes to Magneto's terrorist organization there are only so many parallels to reality.
zenoshogun
Not really, entirely different levels of magnitude, he opposed control and management of people who are different, the IDF is fighting against codified and blatant genocide.
Rulweylan
Not really. He attacked humans because they might try to wipe out his people. The IDF's enemies openly declare their intent to wipe out Israel and have made multiple attempts already.
Ark161
Bro, take a walk to the library for two seconds. Israel has tried to wipe Palestine off the face of the earth for DECADES. No shit that is going to breed some type of insurgency. UN took part of Palestine, said "FUCK IT, THIS IS NOW ISREAL!",and then gave Israel every advantage to just steamroll the every living shit out of Palestine. Isreal as a state is asshole. Hamas is an terrorist group and also is asshole. But using "but HAMAS!!!!" while ignoring everything up to this point is wrong.
Rulweylan
More accurately, the UN divided the British mandate into two states after decades of violence on both sides, and the Palestinians, along with the rest of the Arab league, immediately invaded the Israeli part in what their league president called a 'war of extermination'. They failed to exterminate the Jews in the area, who were then joined by refugees from other Arab nations which were enacting campaigns of ethnic cleansing against their Jewish populations.
Svartlebee
What part of Palestine did the UN take exactly? It was British territory, before that Ottoman territory, befoee that Mamluk, before that several Islamic caliphates.
RedCamaro
To be fair this actor tries to kill everyone in every movie
heyletsbefriends
GRZMNKY
IrrelevantHandle
And I will watch it over and over again. He's one of the few actors that will bring me to a movie I'd otherwise skip.
13579rocket
How was the assassins creed movie? I wanted to see it but life gets in the way.
ChefHannibal
tzahtman
In The Killer he is just a German tourist
elcee50
movie extras when they see michael fassbender walk on set
Seanspeed
They should really stop hiring him then.
schtomp
TBF, he was the bad guy...
MrStealUrChange
Not from his point of view....
ChefHannibal
BryanLaserEpee
He was really doing it the wrong way in Shame.
littlevache
Just because it's not your way doesn't mean it's the wrong way! Don't kink shame
literallymike
CogPrimus
JPRiddles
Coca cola lipstick Ringo, dance all night, dance all night!
vonkeswick
I love your wall
Jaqdakloun
So, he's like, th anthithth...antises...anthy...the opposite of Sean Bean
FractalShoggoth
I could definitely see Magneto simply walking into Mordor.
Bloodsense
Inverse?
joepineapplesindrag
Reciprocal?
readbackmonkey
In the movie the government is planning on having everyone like him register themselves; which he sees as a precursor to another holocaust, much like the "Jewish" badges the Nazis started in 1939.
Mr21782Man
That's just the first movie. In first class (underrated IMO) he's out in the world trying to get vengeance and Charles tries to reign him in. In this movie he killed JFK and is going after non-mutants again with his vengeance plot. There are different versions of the same character doing the same thing for different reasons.
mayodash
The reason Israel has always been able to confirm the number of dead in Gaza is because they make all Gazans register with them so they know exactly how many dead and their ages. When the "Hamas run health ministry" says x number of deaths/casualties they cannot lie to Israel about that number. The numbers coming out of Gaza have not been disputed in any conflicts in the past 2 decades.
motherfluffer
Then he said oh you think we’re inferior well we ain’t going quietly this time”
RevolutionOnHerLips
mutant registration was a thing in the comics too, iirc
The3rdwheel
it was.. and in ita defense.. would be nice to know if there was a mutant around that could literally control every persons mind. or become a nuclear bomb whenever they wanted
Rayxzerox
What's knowing about it gonna do?
The3rdwheel
lookin at you nitro and cannonball
bekkayya
not just register, register and then explicitly remove the demographic. Xmen are a queer allegory, and in the movie they literally make a "vaccine that makes mutants normal', erasing their identity. His response is overt violence, but against a casual liberal genocide. Please dont forget that our 'progressive' governments did this shit in real life.
mayodash
This is what I mean.. anyone fighting against racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, transphobia is fighting the same fights. All these groups need to band together and say enough is enough for everyone. Free Everyone.
Crowlands
Yeah, X-Men is an allegory for All kinds of bigotry, depending on the time and story. Began as anti-semitism, movies made it more about homophobia, some of the stories follow other allegories, more or less subtly.
Whoever the oppressed group of the time is, that's what mutants represent.
dwilson0725
But Rogue, there's nothing wrong with us. *Flys away while controlling lightning*
bitemark
The girl who can make clouds vs the girl who kills everyone she touches
TheWombatStrikesAgain
I don't like the 'people with superpowers as a metaphor for mistreated minorities' thingie. When people got treated like that in history, the victims were still humans, no more dangerous than the people who hated them. Mutants on the other hand have ridiculously powerful abilities, that easily enable them to commit mass murder, mind rape, and other horrific things that neither cops nor courts are really equipped to deal with. Most countries don't even want people to own an assault rifle.
bekkayya
I'm sorry you dont like it. That must be really hard.
FractalShoggoth
To be fair, the Jews apparently have a space laser that can start fires in California, according to a very reliable* source. That's kind of a superpower!
*Source may not be reliable and in fact is quite batshit.
Pyper212
Sci-fi and fantasy is meant to point an entertaining mirror on societal conventions. It changes the subjects and locations to allow readers to dwell on current affairs in a way that subverts existing internal biases. The hope is for readers to start out thinking “hey cool costumes!” and “that’s an awesome power!” To then reflect “hey, registering mutants was really uncool and maybe we shouldn’t do that to real humans”.
Aslatra
I don't know about 'is meant to be' so much as 'can be'. I think it's also important for these things to just.. be for the sake of entertaining. Granted, the best of the bunch will always have a message at their heart, but I definitely feel a distinction has to be made that it's okay to set such things aside for the sake of escapism.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Sure, but if you change key characteristics like that, you risk your message getting a bit garbled and your metaphors not hitting as hard as you wanted. One of the worst examples I ever read was a story where vampires openly lived among humans, and were portrayed as unfairly hated and persecuted... but quite a lot of them were nearly feral or sadistic murderers. That doesn't work. You can't complain about people being treated like a threat, when you show that yes, they definitely are one.
Pyper212
I mean not getting a message across or getting your metaphors garbled is a risk of any art. Just because some people don’t understand doesn’t invalidate the attempt. If it makes even 5% of readers empathize even a little bit, I think it’s worthwhile
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Now just to be clear: I'm not saying that legitimises stuff like forced registration, but you at least have to acknowledge that it is NOT exactly like racial discrimination, and the concerend people do have a point. Being worried about Mr. Chaingun-Arms and Mrs. Brain Melter is not the same thing as being worried about someone because they talk funny or their skin is a different color.
readbackmonkey
Most of the time that humanity has engaged in mass registration, the victim group is demonized for secret conspiracy against the majority: Japanese internment camps for Japanese spying; the Jewish “blood libel” was a major factor in 19/20th century antisemitism, look at the modern treatment of Muslims stemming from 9/11. Fear from the majority is always a justifier, for a comic story super powers seem real and help you empathize with the oppressor.
mayodash
This is what I mean.. anyone fighting against racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, transphobia is fighting the same fights. All these groups need to band together and say enough is enough for everyone. Free Everyone. Surely we, as a species, will get to a point where people see the divide and conquer routine and say, nah.. not falling for it this time, these guys are just like me and should have equal rights.
delecti
Yeah, he and Charles basically come down to "I'm not going to give them the chance to do that again" versus "I'm going to give them the chance to not do that again".
readbackmonkey
That’s a great summary, it’s frankly one of the best hero / villain dynamics in comics - it’s easy to understand both sides of the conflict and you can sympathize with both. Wish more young persons stories were like this as it teaches empathy.
unluckyandbored
Harry Potter is a good book when you're 10 years old or want to turn your brain off and read something you don't have to think about too hard. On the surface it appears deep, but deep down it's quite shallow.
sum1ne1
"deep down it's quite shallow"
Onsvaltti
Oh that definitely would be needed. 💀 I grew up with Harry Potter, which has so damn black and white world view. Doesn't teach much about empathy 😅 oh you are a slytherin? Automatically a racist to-be-deatheater, a.k.a. nazeeh. ☝🏻😌 What? You are 11? Still an asshole. Green is the evil color, everybody knows that.
EmbraceAnarchy
I’ve never seen this many emojis in an Imgur comment.
Onsvaltti
Four? So wild. :D I've sadly seen those that have like.... 10? 20? But that's typical social media for you.
yeahIbreedtreelizards
But he DID name his organization "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" , right? I never read the comics, so I don't know if that's 100% accurate.
ChazzK
Yes, but that was also before / around the time his whole backstory was even conceived past "an old enemy of Charles" and he was more EXPLICITLY evil, doing things like *TRYING TO STEAL ALL THE NUKES TO TAKE THE WORLD HOSTAGE.*
Unrelated to his later plot where he ACTUALLY stole a bunch of nukes, but more of a "touch us and the world ends" shield for Asteroid M.
Onsvaltti
Maybe he's just edgy 🤔 late blooming emo?
Frelock
I like to consider myself a generally good person. Never been in trouble with the law, regular donations and volunteering, and I try my best to do the right thing. But if someone made a local group called "The Brotherhood of Evil Gays" I'm at least going to consider joining!
CaptRandom1290
I'm not even gay and I'd ask if I could join. That's a badass group name
d0o0o0d
...having been a victim doesn't make someone a good guy. That's pretty much the main point of the character.
Qpnao
Henry Kissinger
valkrez
This is what makes him such a compelling villain
d0o0o0d
...what makes him somewhat ambiguous is that we see potential futures where he wasn't wrong. He's still an asshole, though.
sortofkindamadbutnotreally
Holy shit is that ever a lesson for the modern era
SteelKnight
Yeah sometimes a person who's had a boot ontheir neck doesn't want to get rid of boots on necks, they want to be the one wearing the boot, though as lots of other comments have said, he saw this as a logical response to the threat of a mutant holocaust
SteelKnight
"I gotta holocaust them before they holocaust us"
ProfessorDumbass
...and Netanyahu
Imademyselfsquirtle
Israel
gardenias
Someone was going to say it.
Howlingowl
Say what you will about Israel. They are using despicable, murderous tactics to remove all Palestinians from Israel. But they’ve been engaged in a war for over a century now. They had to develop the most advanced missile defense system on the planet because the Palestinians were firing rockets at their neighborhoods and schools daily. If the Israelis win the war: there will be no more Palestinians in Israel. If the Palestinians win the war there will be no more Israelis, period.
junkgoof
Oppression takes time to recover from whether it's one individual or a large group. Common thread is that pretty much every country in the world behaves shamefully.
MrSwissroll
Life begets art; art begets life...
MatthewJohnsona
Yeah, trauma often doesn't lead to "healthy" world views.
BaWitda
"Look, suffering doesn't make you better, it just makes you suffer!" -Art Spiegelman
bekkayya
Except he's not a villain. Every other xmen agrees with what he's doing, just not with his methods. They think they can talk the genocidal right into respecting them if only they set a good enough example. They are wrong about this. In real life and in every piece of media (right up until the end where they good guys have to have a victory because its a comic book). Every instance where he's used violence was directly proceeded by the beginnings of a state sponsored genocide.
13579rocket
The sentinels. 💁♂️
bekkayya
The same ones made by the state to wipe out mutants? The ones shown to most definitely do that in the future? Oh my bad we have to analyze everything in a vacuum with no history or context
13579rocket
I was just stating “the sentinals” as an example of the state sponsored genocide you had mentioned. (They were created by the government, right? It’s been a long time since it read the comics, etc)
sadurdaynight
He's a classic "the abused becomes the abuser" scenario.
Salpinus
Ah, just like Israel/sionists* today then.
*Usually I'd avoid the term sionists, but after reading Times of Israel it doesn't seem to be as much of a conspi/curse word as I once thought it was.
chrisjohnson76
Magneto was trying to save his people from oppression and a real threat to their existence. Can't say the same for Israel.
rbudrick
I dunno. He was one of those bad guys who made so good ass points. The disenfranchised in general really should fight back like the bullies do.
PhailRaptor
I think it's more about him being "never again" personified. He's seeing all the things now, against mutants, that he saw in the past, against jews, and he's super not OK with that. He'll do *anything* to stop it from happening again. What makes him a villain is that he can't tell the difference between an active oppressor and an innocent bystander.
Keru
Motherfucker tried to drop an asteroid on the planet.
Simusar
Based on his actions and attitude towards the X-Men, he's very much "if you're not with me, then your against me".
LordSutter
Ahem*George Bush*ahem
ballsoutflyer
Funny how this is being downvoted when he literally said "If you're not with us, you're against us" in his speech.
RaynWisp
To be fair, it's probably not even in the top 10 of most unhinged things he's said.
Svartlebee
I mean, Senator Kelly was voted in, most of population of America seemed massively onboard with pogroming or killing the mutants.
LoopStricken
Never Again Except When I Do It.
RollToSaveAgainst
Never Again to MY people
cattlegrazer82
Yep, extremely common for victims to become the perpetrator and create more victims when they don't get the help and support they need. Magneto is 100% accurate
Clemfaust
Nop, it's common for perpetrators to be former victims, that's all. 90% of perpetrators are men, yet 85% of victims are women. If victims became perpetrators, we would face a LOT more women perpetrators (i'm a criminologist and i work with perpetrators)
fishmaceins
And yet one of my favorite characters... Largely because Ian McKellen's portrayal of him was awesome.
Onsvaltti
I mean, you are allowed to like characters that are not good guys, or even good people :D sooo many classic disney villains have almost as many fans than the protagonists. (Mostly adult fans, too! ☝🏻 Because to adults, life is not so black and white anymore.)
Lynkfox
Hades just was trying to get recognition for all his hard work. Ursla just was making a living as a payday loan clerk. Had to make ends meets. Dr Facilier had some bad history he just grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. Scar... well no scar is just a facist, but he had a good singing voice (but Jeremy irons is fucking amazing)
NotTheDevilYouKnow
Looking at you Israel.
Incidentally
BigIdeas
So if we just get rid of all victims, nobody will ever be victimized again?
d0o0o0d
theshinobi23
Don't most villains have a "tragic backstory" where they're the victim, which causes them to either (1) want to inflict the same pain on everyone, or (2) want to stop that from happening again by any means necessary, usually involving some form of destruction, murder, or robbery?
d0o0o0d
Some do. Most? No.
Anarric
Or in case if you're the Joker, all the above and sometimes just no..the best line ever spoken by the joke "yea, if I did remember my life, I'd prefer it be multiple choice"
Onsvaltti
My choice of Joker's best line ✌🏻😌 fits the theme of the post, too!
theshinobi23
No matter the version or style or run of caomics it's in, I always read the Joker's lines in the comics, in Mar Camel's Joker voice in my head.
StephenDaniels
Everyone is the hero in their story.
EniChaos
except Deadpool and Doomsday
Onsvaltti
BEST written villains are heroes in their own mind! ☝🏻
CAAFlo
But sometimes you just need a maniacal super villain to punch. That's where apocalypse comes in