Sealab2021
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Ladies and gentlemen, we have the technology...
Stay safe out there!
FP edit: Thanks for the upvotes. A few people have mentioned that the cost of a demo doesn’t pan out. I wonder how up to date that research is. It has only been a few years since RB stopped renting games and now that everything is moving to download you can’t swap disks with friends to try the games out as easily. I’m just having a harder and harder time dropping $60 on something I ‘might’ enjoy.
InsanitySpark
I pirate most of the games. If they are good I buy them. If they are bad - I just delete them and not even play the fully. No preorders!
sarkonas
Oh, we can. And until gaming industry stops being a broken shitty mess I won't even feel guilty about torrenting.
Jokerthehulk
Frostbreaker1
I remember back in the day NEVER buying a new game before renting it from Blockbusters first.
MAup
I always get a "trial" version of a game before i buy it, and always only keep it for as long as i need before buying it.
MAup
Slight lie, some studios i know produce quality stuff so i buy those right off
WolfRamX4
I used to subscribe to this mindset, but too many of my faves have turned... Sour. I always take the cautious approach now.
TwoAccountsDown
Well we used to be able to, but the financial departments realized that putting that money into marketing instead yielded more profit.
BenSnow97
especially if you make shitty games, demos need actual quality to convince people but marketing doesn't
Macmashpotato
piratebay
Whatevertf
Lol how are you gonna buy cosmetics and loot boxes in a demo? Do you even CARE about my ability to exploit you?
helltonic
EA does paid demos. You buy the game and if you like it you buy the rest with dlcs, microtransaction, skins...
fskn
Demos are for companies that trust their games being good enough.
Kalosso
Remember when there where so called Demos?
awesomecat42
There are still plenty of games with demos, it's just not standard.
JimPlaysGames
There still are. Tons of Steam games have playable demos.
Loraxis
I feel old now
ZeGodFaja
They called those Demos in the 90s
sgnight13
Ah yes, remember shareware? Peperidge Farm remembers
dunewarrior
Wolf 3D's shareware campaign is basically all everyone remembers. Same with Descent.
Jkund17
Modern version of this is to just watch streamers play it.
Melonfish
This used to be the norm, you'd play the demo then buy the game based off that experience. Prob was the demo wasn't always the final product
tnxgam3rx
See: Brutal Legends.
JHawke
I think it was fallout 1, where the demo was a town that didn't even exist in the game. No spoilers, good gameplay demo :D
ChimeraGryph01
not to mention there would have to be resources into making the demo that took from making the actual game
ztygs
Not if the demo was just the first few levels tho.
HPCmonkey
Must games nowadays just aren't structured that way anymore.
emittto
Yeah I downloaded a stupid farm game and sdidnt like it. Got refund within minutes.
Arenlor
This was the idea behind OUYA.
CloakerJosh
Hey, now! Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 gave out a demo!... Only after you paid for a preorder in full, but...
BarryAllensSole
That is one game I can understand. It's like having a FIFA demo. You can play the damn thing for a year with friends and its fine.
derBernd
TBH: Tony Hawk + Warehouse Level is pretty much the two coolest things you want from that game.
CloakerJosh
This is true
shimmernshine
Yeah, and now that the game is released with uncrackable copy protection, they still won't release the demo.
BenSnow97
"uncrackable"
shimmernshine
RDR2 is close to a year of being uncracked, and it's one of, if not THE most desired game.
SupremeMrPopo
give codex like 2-3 more weeks and it'll be cracked
shimmernshine
RDR2 is at 320 days. DENUVO is unbreakable due to OTP phone-home.
ztygs
Denuvo has been broken many times already, just saying.
blindlynx
https://imgur.com/dD1TNK8
METROlD
Just watch the gameplay reviews on YT.
NateKindaGreat
Use steam buy/refund system as a demo. Show preference for games that *have* demos. Watch YT videos to get a feel for the game. But most 1/?
NateKindaGreat
Importantly, Don't Buy Brand New Games At Full Price if you aren't *Sure* you want them! Don't preorder *anything*! Wait For Sales! Game 2/?
NateKindaGreat
companies have done everything in their power to kill the second hand market, and hidden the true cost of AAA game development with DLC. 3/?
NateKindaGreat
Combined with the collapse of gaming journalism, it's almost impossible to know if you're going to like a game ahead of time. So don't 4/?
NateKindaGreat
Buy them until you know. Wait until they're cheap. You don't owe these publishers *anything*. If they're going to be anti-consumer, we'll 5/
NateKindaGreat
be anti-producer. Fuck 'em. 6/6
dogestyle
Especially since Sony and Microsoft want to kill the second-hand market
BenSnow97
they're going for the 30%... wonder when Epic goes ballistic on them too
jbob3
Can't let happen. Recently wanted breakpoint, £60 on the ps4 or £13 for the disc, not even secondhand
dogestyle
well if the consoles don't come with a disc reader ...
LarkSachrosis
There was a golden age on the 360, for a couple years nearly every major game had a demo
FitzFarseer
I remember the CoD5 demo convincing me not to buy it because it was buggy af lol
LarkSachrosis
Then the money people crunched numbers and realized demos didn't affect sales significantly either way.
culinarydream7224
Gameplay wise,, there isn't that much difference between games anyway
fibersplicingreekman
Word of mouth is better
CthulhusGreasyBallsack
My friend and I spent dozens of hours playing the Real Steel demo, 3 fighters only. We got in actual fights over a demo lmao.
MeanWinchester
I must have played the demos for Lego Star Wars and Dragon Age 2 like 200 times each!
NomDeImguerre
... Tell me you at least bought DA2.
MeanWinchester
I very much did
PedanticGonkDroid
I just remembered I bought Space Marine after playing the demo. I'm glad I did.
screenaholic
I played SO MANY damn demos as a broke teenager.
jay20003000
Other platforms did demos before xbox 360....game demos are older than xbox
oggokogok
They never said they weren't just that there was a time where basically all major 360 games had demos available
ArniePye
I do miss buying ps2 mags and getting demo discs that worked 50% of the time. Please insert a PlayStation2 format disc MonkaS
DeltaBladeX
They always worked for me. OPS2M Aus. That and Play UK (no demos, but they did DVD trailers and basic cheat discs) were what I bought then.
ArniePye
I used to get like PSM or something.
Anfalicious
I came here for this comment. Except mine are floppies on the front of PC Mag in the late 80s.
TheDisscoPotato
Yoooo. I’m from the 90s and I felt this one. I still have a some of those old floppies and cds packed away.
TheDisscoPotato
PlayStation underground cds for days...
Apocallama
*Cue Funhaus Demo Disk theme song*
sykoticflaw
I miss the old Demo Disk episodes
rosecrystal
Jayfourke
*Cue Jon Smiff going mental and destroying the disks in increasingly silly ways*
Magus25
I should watch some early demo disc again. It's been ongoing for years so early ones should feel new again.
AFriskyJacket
Research shows that demo's generally REDUCED sales for games. Making them takes time and money that could be spent elsewhere. Demos are dead
walrussl
i know you're right, but it was an excellent filter.
Redraz2021
Yeah but why show you their game is shit when they can just hope you buy it blind?
Welley
Was way too long before someone with its senses commented.
DorkJedi
marketing bullshit. they figured out demos reduced sales of shitty games. So they hype shitty games instead for that initial sales boost.
BenSnow97
If actually experiencing the game makes you not want to buy it it doesn't deserve the sale anyway
NotRightNeverWrong
Because you could quickly start playing and see that it was awful.
SeismicCoin
thats one of the outcomes. of course if the demo was made badly (as was apparently the case with the "beta" for the recent avengers game) >>
SeismicCoin
it could make a perfectly good game seem bad. demos almost never do good for the developer and time/money/effort needed to make a demo is >>
SeismicCoin
almost always better spent just making the game better. heres a video that explains it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QM6LoaqEnY
HamburgersExclamationPointTardigradeIsAlreadyTaken
Or because you got hooked on the demo and never bought the actual game... like I used to do!
tanebot
The demo of the original GTA was an almost perfect party game. Hot seat, 90 seconds, just do stupid shit until you ran out of time.
dunewarrior
Halo CE demo, Blood Gulch mp. Basically no reason to buy the game anymore.
HamburgersExclamationPointTardigradeIsAlreadyTaken
Half-life; quake, doom, world of warcraft (90's version)
AFriskyJacket
That's another reason demo's are dead lol.
ControversialLeftistLesbian
One of my game magazines gave a demo disc with like 12 demos on it with every issue in the 90's-ish.
mattrixk
I used to get an xbox360 magazine that came with a demo disk in every issue. I had a stack of those things.
slack3rdav3
yep remember those
UsernameNeededPleaseProvide
Thats how i learnt of ape escape, spent hours on that game.
gucchan13
The Games Machine and all of those <3
MeAndMyMuckaMilo
Yeah I remember getting the Driver demo in the PlayStation magazine
NauseousPanda
Game EXE, PC Gamer, Computer Bild... New issue every month and they all had CD/DVDs with 10+ game demos or even full free games
NauseousPanda
I once got Fallout 2 as an 'extra' in one of the CDs.. remember 'Extra' folders inside game CDs? What a time it was...
Quessan
those were the days...
guerrilladisco
PlayStation Magazine demo discs... The soundtracks they came up with are legendary and I still listen to them often!
songmaster2112
I miss the PS2 Jampack demo discs
fuselfluppe
Computer Bild Spiele!
aPokal
That's what made the hanger in THPS 1 legendary.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
Yep. This used to be standard practice: putting out a game without offering a demo was considered crazy.
Biffa90
I still have many of those ps1 demo discs they rocked and as a kid I'd play the demo about 100times
Justboredtobehere
Yeah was thinking this same thing as I read it . Not only that, sometimes the demos were available online for free as well. .. 2
Justboredtobehere
Limited play time, only one mission, no save ability... It gave you a chance to try them out at least
bcwilsondotcom
ummm, the 90s was full of this. All the classics were released as partial games. Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Commander Keen, etc.
HeadJamistan
Remember quake 1 had all the content on the shareware disc and you could run a keygen to unlock it?
IsTheTitleOfMySexTape
Shareware was the greatest thing that ever stopped happening to games.
Hungrypiemonger
no, games not freezing your pc because windows 10 says not to is the greatest thing to ever stop happening to games.
TheCarolingian
Shareware/Freeware/Demos all on the front of your PC magazine in a handy CD/DVD. Those were the days. I still have loads of those discs!
Laser2000
Sometimes I didn't even know til adulthood that I just played the demoversion of a game bc they were huge
Iliketomakepeoplemad
Commander keen, what an amazing adventure.. C : \ > keen4E
Tak231
They never stopped doing this. I bought a game a while back... And then had to buy a content pack... And a season pass... And...
Foffett
Commander Keen. What a game! No4; Goodbye Galaxy is my fave
Hungrypiemonger
i still have my shareware doom 1 discs
SpecialProjectY
StarCraft demo was so good, Fallout had a pretty good short story and Wild Metal County had awesome multiplayer map with all tanks.
dunewarrior
Oh man starcraft's demo was amazing. Also Warcraft 3's. Fond memories of that era.
ihateimgurffs
Why make a demo when a bunch of neckbeards cum in pants after a half assed render of a logo and preorder it?
goflyblind
i remember getting CDs full of the stuff with each issue of macworld and macaddict.
NovaZek
PS1, demo discs. If people remember those, those people have had a great childhood and life.
chrispydtankPS4
Purchased PlayStation Mag for 1, 2 and 3 with demos... Great times and gave good insight to what to buy.
realGeorgelucas
Winter Releases 98!!
XIXXXVIVIII
Holy crap, I feel like I've been punched in the face by nostalgia
fskn
Still got one of those. My PS1 is long dead, though. RIP. :(
yoshi
demos hurt sales. https://old.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/4wesat/study_finds_that_video_game_demos_negatively/
WolfRamX4
Uh, yeah... After they find out the game is actually shit. Even the article points that out lol
yoshi
yup, exactly. if game is crap -> no sale. if demo is enough to scratch the gaming itch -> no sale. so from a profit point of view demo=bad
BenSnow97
If you can't make a game that leaves people itching for more and try to sell it you're essentially deceiving your customers. Sure, for >
BenSnow97
that model, demos just mess it all up, but for actually great games getting a taste of them doesn't make you wanna play them less.
yoshi
i too would like to live in an ideal world
BenSnow97
It exists. Many episodic games have the first episode free, essentially a demo to the game. Some indie games and a few rare unicorns have >
WolfRamX4
a LOT of games were like this before it became 'industrialized'. The way a game sold used to have to be by being good to begin with.
Hexrowe
Any "AAA" game, certainly. Indie companies and solo devs don't often have the resources to make TWO versions of the game just for marketing.
Welley
Lol no. It's not because it's AAA that another milestone can be added for fun. Imagine creating a AAA in a couple years and having to ¹
Welley
crunch even more so a couple of people can play a demo and decide not to buy it. AAA or Indie , it's people that are behind those games, ²
Welley
not machines. "Just take more time to make your games", that's not how it works. ³
Hexrowe
The so-called AAA companies do have access to quite a few solutions to that BESIDES working their staff to death or disability.
Macmashpotato
As an indie dev, i can say thats complete bs. Making a demo version would be and is pretty easy.
volunteervancouver
Back in the day I found demos would be the first section like 1st quarter of the game and you would pay for the add on to finish it.
Macmashpotato
Yea it was my day too, the problem with making demos is getting corporate to do it, and the security problems they present.
awesomecat42
In my experience, I've seen more demos for smaller games than for AAA ones.
Hexrowe
PS. It also depends on the game; something linear you can just cut off after Stage 3, easy, but fencing in a sandbox is more problematic.
Macmashpotato
Big ass invisible inverted circle, you might call it a wall, still easy.
Sealab2021
1)You could set a time limit for sand boxes and long rpgs. 2)A trial should become so ubiquitous that its a standard part of development.
NoAsBigAsMediumJockButBiggerThanWeeJockJock
One potential problem with time limit is its easily crackable. First x level is easy and safe since the later levels are not shipped.
thornus67
RPGs tend to have story breaks you can stop at. DQ11 did for its demo. You could easily cap it after the first or second boss.
Hexrowe
Yeah, fair points. But even then it's still an extra hurdle to a small developer - and not as crucial for "budget" titles, either, I feel.
Hexrowe
All in all, I think playable demos should probably be a requirement for calling a company triple-A, at least.
SharkleberryFinn
Steam does refunds. So there's that.
TheVapeCrusader
So does Microsoft
DmForDucks
And Epic Games
Nathanyel
Speaking of Steam, you know who does demos? Indie Devs: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/gradientconvergence
LokeGroundrunner
2 hours of gameplay is not good enough to figure out if you like a game that has over 100 hours of gameplay.
InvalidUserError
What's this 2 hour thing??? I was denied a refund request by Steam for a game because I had already played it for 63 min (Divinity 2). ☹️
EvPointMaster
None of the comments mentioning GOGs refund policy? Ok then...
Muffyns
Only if you play for less time than the starting cutscenes take to play out (also fuck you theyre unskipable)
EnderSwe
Not when I asked for it? A long time ago, bought CoD BO1. When the installation was done my Power supply and motherboard broke. 1/2
EnderSwe
Tried to get refunded bc I couldn’t afford new parts for a while. They refused,said I already played it and therefore I can’t get a refund?
res20stupid
They only do so because they were forced to by legislators.
AlexjoneswatchingTporn
Its not perfect tho most games you need more than 2 hours like RPGS the witcher i read the bio of everything i killed i love lore
roseyreddead9000
Didn’t they only add that after the EU made them?
Deepfriedsoldier
Trouble is that doesnt take into account game length. Some indie titles are about an hour long and cheap as hell. Refund = No profit.
Hurch
Yeah, but they changed the refund time from 24 hours to something like 1 hour, right?
calvinblanes
Look at RDR2 for example, I bought ultimate edition and I have better specs than the commended but still couldn't run it in low at 60 fps
calvinblanes
The game is amazing but since I refunded it I have played like 7 other games with that money and when I have a better setup I'm gonna buy it
carlsagansghost
So does MS. Just got one.
aFloatingCabbage
UNLESS YOU PLAYED FOR MORE THAN 2 HOURS... AFTER THAT ITS “FUCK YOU”.
aFloatingCabbage
CONSIDERING THE DOWNLOAD TAKES HALF THE TIME.. FUCK STEAM.
Noksus
But there's a 2 hour play time limit. And in today's games, the intro can easily be an hour long.
Thetiredmechanic
This! People demanding trials are stupid and lazy. Sorry. If every game did trials they would be super warped and you'd end up with a
Thetiredmechanic
"different" version anyway. It isnt smart to flood the market with trials
TheRealFireFrenzy
an AAA game a while ago didnt have a PC demo because refunds exist, did have one on Xbox and PS
sarkonas
2 hour gameplay limit is not nearly enough though, especially with longer games
HaberdasherInGold
Unless you spend 2 hours trying to get a game to run, then they just say “fuck you, you played it too long.”
sarkonas
Don't forget games that have a strong intro then fall apart later. Or some games you just don't get a read on within 2 hours.
gaidinbdj
Yep. I just refunded my first Steam game a few weeks ago. Death Stranding. Even though I was over the two hour limit, I pointed out...
Incub
I did too. Boring as hell.
gaidinbdj
...that two hours of game time was less than 10 minutes of actual game play and they accepted it.
LenneSamunai
i was just thinking about that yesterday. i think the game industry really wants us only to download so we cannot resell it as 2nd hand
LenneSamunai
ultimately leading to more high priced sales. but im glad to see that steam at least refunds. i doubt ps/wii/xbox will ever though
Manjoma
Realy? Like, i say No. Did not like this. 7 get my mony BACK?
MrWobblyHead
So long as you've got less than two hours of play time in game you'll get a full refund.
Manjoma
That is actually cool info
MaxieMooo
Ive been trying to refund witcher1 on pc since i purchased it and played literally 2 mins(controls are not usable).. still waiting
Noksus
What are you on about? Witcher 1 had the best combat controls of any Witcher game. Witcher 3 keyboard + mouse controls are horrible.
bamblebimble
Is your keyboard broken? Or do you only have 1 hand
MaxieMooo
The controls are trash and if you think theyre not then youre wrong.
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
I mean a ton of games have shitty controls. It takes a lot to be literally unplayable though. Im talking like Terraria on mobile bad
neonoptic
Needs to be within 2 week period after purchase, can't be a gift from someone, can't be apart of a bundle, and can't be DLC either. IIRC
MaxieMooo
I dont think it was a bundle and it was within 2 weeks.. ah it was only like 3 quid but still.
brandonblk
you can only refund it before the 2 weeks are up
Nubsva
Did you request the refund over two weeks after purchase, or did you buy the game as part of a bundle deal?
Verldemert
So sick of launchers like steam.. I miss the good ol days of “Here’s my money, give me the game.exe and fuck off”.
HaberdasherInGold
I’m a pretty big fan of steam. They have some annoying practices, but they also let me know when the games I want to buy are affordable.
Verldemert
Except for the sales, I see zero point in Steam. And tbh, you might get a great price on a game, but you don’t own it.
HaberdasherInGold
Steam also is an easy way to keep in touch with and play with friends. Being able to instantly buy games for cheap trumps reselling for $1
CandleToad
https://www.gog.com/
Verldemert
Love the username :) I’ve used GOG in the past and it’s my go to, but it doesn’t always have the same games.
CandleToad
Thanks. Yeah, you're somewhat limited in selection, but that's unfortunately the price to pay for DRM-free games not tied to a launcher. 1/2
CandleToad
Most new games use DRM and/or follow a "games as a service" approach (needing a launcher), so you're not gonna find them on GOG. 2/2
AnimalGenetaliaAudioClues
You mean their pos 2 hr policy where you hardly touch the tutorial and have to make a decision if it’s good enough to keep?
valarjk
It counts total playtime not time since you bought it. If you need 2h in a tutorial then thats not their fault
ChrisMorray
Why, some amazing games are only 20-ish hours of gameplay total. Is 10% of the game for free not enough for you?
AnimalGenetaliaAudioClues
You hear about they mess with wolcen? 2 hrs wasn’t enough to see how incomplete end game was. How many game breaking issues they have
ChrisMorray
Just look at Dishonored! Challenges and completionism aside, the story is around 20 hours. Even less for Dishonored 2.
FitzFarseer
Back in the day when demos were a real thing I don’t remember any of them being more than like 20 minutes. Two hours seems fair
HappyLittleIdiot
The only difference is that the demos would be from a good part of the game in order to show off, most likely not the very beginning.
FitzFarseer
Usually true, but not always. I remember the demo for Sly 2 was the tutorial and I loved it. That got me to buy the game
HappyLittleIdiot
But yeah, 2h should be enough to reach some actual action in any game to make up one's mind about the game.
AnimalGenetaliaAudioClues
The games I aim for are end game grinding stuff like poe/d3/ bl3. 2 hrs isn’t enough to get to end game and find out that it’s non existent