That detour can be an incredibly insightful journey into mathematics. A lot of the time, students in math ask themselves "Why does this construct exist?" and pretty much every time it comes back around to someone inventing the math to solve a problem, and Physics has a lot of that. Knowing the Why can be the key to unlocking understanding from the raw logic of math.
I was so excited to study astronomy growing up. Stars, planets, galaxies, black holes, and nebulas were endlessly fascinating to me as a kid. Imagine my surprise when I take it as an elective just for funsies... And realize that it's just endless math and physics equations that I was (and still am) too advanced for me
The first time I dipped my toes into college was doing a Bachelor of Science in physics. It's basically entirely math. But, way more interesting than your standard math.
That’s why I never ended up perusing physics. Loved the theoretical, but couldn’t hack the math once I got to AP Physics…should have gone with biology…loved A&P
I am not a native english speaker, I have read the city name a couple times, but never knew how you'd pronounce it.....and the first time I heard it, it sounded like 'El Bukkake' to me.
Except not really. There has been many innovations in math that later was shown to be true in physics. so there seems to be a more close relationship than just a way to describe physics
I would have to relativate that: some innovations in math might have been found to be able to describe things in physics in a better way than previous attempts could. In addition, especially in theoretical physics the border between the two disciplines becomes really blurry as there it is just highlevel models really in the deep weeds. They will reform the language to better fit their needs of describing.
i played a different game with Wikipedia, click random page, see how quickly you can get to the wiki page for porn usually you can do it in ~8-12 clicks
20+ years ago I was teaching high school physics. The topic involved the use of trig. As I was explaining, one young woman lit up, bright eyed and exclaimed "wow, there's actually a use for this shit", then quickly recoiled when she realized what she blurted out. I grabbed a note card, wrote down her quote, dated it and had her sign it. Hers' was the first of many student quotes posted on the front board.
Luckily my teachers growing up were better at it, but that is absolutely the biggest reason people don't pay attention in math. If you don't show the actual uses for it, it doesn't stick and people aren't interested in learning. Show them how it can save/make them money or it's real world uses, and you'll have more success in educating them. Physics was taught along calc at my school, so you'd learn the math, then go next door to learn how it's applied.
For some of us. I just wish I had stored the thesis of a colleague (theoretical physics, i was strictly experimental) where he really stressed LaTeX's capability for formula setting - the abbreviated formula at the core of his thesis went across a double page.
Came here to say this. Didn't mean to be a shitty student and bitch about "we'll never use this". I wanted concrete examples of where the math was used, so I could conceptualize it! Not just... Oh, cool, a curve in space, that's now also rotating in 3D. Ok, but why? CAUSE MATH SHUT UP. Ok. Nobody cared to explain, for instance, that it could be used in, idunno, aerospace engineering or astronomy. Fuck.
Unfortunately many mathematicians don't know practical applications. My calc physics professor was not great at calc. My calc professor didn't know practical applications. We formed a study group just to bridge the two. It was one of the most fascinating things I did in college.
Think of math like a map. A map is not the territory, it’s a tool for navigating it. Similarly, math is a symbolic system humans created to model patterns in the world. The symbols, equations, and methods are inventions. For example, the base-10 number system isn’t universal, it’s cultural. Ancient Mayans used base-20, and computers today “think” in base-2 (binary).
This reminds me of a very chilling phrase I've heard, in reference to diving accidents involving pressure differentials (not an exact quote, but how I remember it): 'In that moment, he ceased being biology and started being physics.'
I joke, but actually math used to be considered a liberal art, not science, which is why I was able to get a math degree and s liberal arts degree in four years: SIGNIFICANT overlap in required courses
I was interested in Chemistry in high school but once I realized that it will be just math I abandoned it. Now I apply math to biology and it's arguably the worse choice
Right but scientists poke holes with evidence usually. Mathematicians poke holes with logic or otherwise construct things that they can rigorously prove HAVE no holes
The universe doesn't care that we tried to quantize it, which is why our numbers don't always accurately describe it. Math is just an approximation. Then throw in shit like the observer effect and we have a very hard time finding out what things actually are.
A much more common line of thought many mathematicians follow is breaking it down to the absolute fundamentals.
And at its absolute, there are no numbers, no letters, not even symbol. There is only a thought. And associative/logical thinking. The first idea becomes the basis for an axiom and everything else builds from there. Including the first symbol, the first operation, the first number, .....much later down the line: the first equation to describe our observable universe
I heard a description once that Newton isn't renowned for recognizing that an apple falling on his head is gravity, but rather for scaling up
Apple falls, so does dirt which creates a planet/ball which has the same force pulling everything including the moon and in turn falls towards the sun, which all falls towards some other larger body nearby and all the stars follow the same rule of gravitational pull which then affects...
memeseeks
I loved physics when I was in high school but fuck math
UWAGAGABLAGABLAGABA
In HS, i took AP physics and ap calculus at the same time. It was nearly the same class.
nasukkin
That detour can be an incredibly insightful journey into mathematics. A lot of the time, students in math ask themselves "Why does this construct exist?" and pretty much every time it comes back around to someone inventing the math to solve a problem, and Physics has a lot of that. Knowing the Why can be the key to unlocking understanding from the raw logic of math.
zeekcheek
that off-ramp seems like it should be going underneath the on-ramp
Kwyjor
Drive away fast enough, and you crash into Philosophy! https://github.com/s-macke/Abstruse-Goose-Archive/blob/master/comics/511.md
Athol
And if you want horror, see when biology becomes physics (Byford Dolphin Incident)
SlyMrFox
When my sister went through a baking school, she was shocked that so many of her classmates didn't expect math to be a core tenet.
SergeyPrkl
I hate the fact that the loop is wrong here
Keitterman
Physics labs always messed me up. Teacher: "You know your lab fees have to cover that, right?" me: "damn, I got quite a bargain!"
BaloneyBob
EverNotRelevant
God bless, there's a throwback
DuncanHillsCoffee4Life
I was so excited to study astronomy growing up. Stars, planets, galaxies, black holes, and nebulas were endlessly fascinating to me as a kid. Imagine my surprise when I take it as an elective just for funsies... And realize that it's just endless math and physics equations that I was (and still am) too advanced for me
KilroyLichking
math is just physics unconstrained by precepts of reality, and philosophy's just math sans rigor sense and practicality
Spiderbubble
Students afraid of math: exit toward music
Music theory: it’s all math!
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Applied physics is a lot easier for people than math because it's less abstract.
Detoc
ie, engineering.
Anaphriel
The first time I dipped my toes into college was doing a Bachelor of Science in physics. It's basically entirely math. But, way more interesting than your standard math.
themuffulettaisalsoaverygoodsandwich
If you don't die hurtling off that unsafe curve the physicists built on their exit.
TheFifthTK
That’s why I never ended up perusing physics. Loved the theoretical, but couldn’t hack the math once I got to AP Physics…should have gone with biology…loved A&P
echonite
Physics people pulling slingshot maneuvers i see... nice.
RElGNMAN
I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
DocNitro
I am not a native english speaker, I have read the city name a couple times, but never knew how you'd pronounce it.....and the first time I heard it, it sounded like 'El Bukkake' to me.
BlindMeach
Ah- exit 8
Sothrasil
My professor always said "mathematicians use math, physicists abuse math"
TungstenOrbital
I'm too stupid to understand either
KnaveOfSwords
"And math's just physics unconstrained by precepts of reality." — "Every Major's Terrible," Randal Munroe
TripleDane
https://xkcd.com/435/
elten
Math is a language. Physics is just described in that language.
TripleDane
Except not really. There has been many innovations in math that later was shown to be true in physics. so there seems to be a more close relationship than just a way to describe physics
elten
I would have to relativate that: some innovations in math might have been found to be able to describe things in physics in a better way than previous attempts could. In addition, especially in theoretical physics the border between the two disciplines becomes really blurry as there it is just highlevel models really in the deep weeds. They will reform the language to better fit their needs of describing.
ViolinsofAutumn
You mean Randal Munroe, author of XKCD, right?
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
The very same!
KilroyLichking
https://youtu.be/seGpYa8UO0E
KilroyLichking
the wiki page for physics major redirects to engineer
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Getting_to_Philosophy
KilroyLichking
i played a different game with Wikipedia, click random page, see how quickly you can get to the wiki page for porn usually you can do it in ~8-12 clicks
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
what was the search algo? did you pick the link that looked more likely?
KilroyLichking
no algo just clicking away to kill time at a boring ass job
ChicksDigTrucks
biggyrat53
20+ years ago I was teaching high school physics. The topic involved the use of trig. As I was explaining, one young woman lit up, bright eyed and exclaimed "wow, there's actually a use for this shit", then quickly recoiled when she realized what she blurted out. I grabbed a note card, wrote down her quote, dated it and had her sign it. Hers' was the first of many student quotes posted on the front board.
BarryTheCyborg
Luckily my teachers growing up were better at it, but that is absolutely the biggest reason people don't pay attention in math. If you don't show the actual uses for it, it doesn't stick and people aren't interested in learning. Show them how it can save/make them money or it's real world uses, and you'll have more success in educating them. Physics was taught along calc at my school, so you'd learn the math, then go next door to learn how it's applied.
TheobromineAddict
Calculus is where I began to see important real world applications.
Illinifan88
Who the fuck goes into physics thinking it's a way to get away from math?
TheobromineAddict
You're SO right.
Detoc
Yeah, engineering is the real off-ramp to both, as long as you can stomach a little of each.
ImYourWifesBoyfriend
I hate math, so I got into tech, and programming, and now I hate math for different reasons.
gruntabulousbeans
Floating point error.
Harm
I'd guess for 2 reasons? 0: for everything. 1: and the rest.
Evenmoreuselessname
For 10 reasons
spittleteets
For some of us, physics has the practicality, and literal physicality, pure math doesn't, making it easier to conceptualize.
TheobromineAddict
Good luck conceptualizing quantum mechanics.
EltaninDracoPwc
It's just probabilities
stercusmoriturussum
For some of us. I just wish I had stored the thesis of a colleague (theoretical physics, i was strictly experimental) where he really stressed LaTeX's capability for formula setting - the abbreviated formula at the core of his thesis went across a double page.
PackedCatMeowingPowerDensity
Having TRIED to study physics, I am convinced anything connected to magnetism and electricity is witchcraft.
BassilusBone
Magnetism is connected to special relativity, so you are correct, witchcraft.
wejustdontknow
I failed algebra repeatedly. But aced geometry and physics.
BitchCake
Came here to say this. Didn't mean to be a shitty student and bitch about "we'll never use this". I wanted concrete examples of where the math was used, so I could conceptualize it! Not just... Oh, cool, a curve in space, that's now also rotating in 3D. Ok, but why? CAUSE MATH SHUT UP. Ok. Nobody cared to explain, for instance, that it could be used in, idunno, aerospace engineering or astronomy. Fuck.
peopleBeforeCorps
Unfortunately many mathematicians don't know practical applications. My calc physics professor was not great at calc. My calc professor didn't know practical applications. We formed a study group just to bridge the two. It was one of the most fascinating things I did in college.
thenetbear
Biology is chemistry. Chemistry is physics. Physics is math. Math is made up.
reineseele
1 + 1 = ∞
BARP
Think of math like a map. A map is not the territory, it’s a tool for navigating it. Similarly, math is a symbolic system humans created to model patterns in the world. The symbols, equations, and methods are inventions. For example, the base-10 number system isn’t universal, it’s cultural. Ancient Mayans used base-20, and computers today “think” in base-2 (binary).
SirNameless
This reminds me of a very chilling phrase I've heard, in reference to diving accidents involving pressure differentials (not an exact quote, but how I remember it):
'In that moment, he ceased being biology and started being physics.'
Ultratoxic
HufflePuffPuff
Birds aren’t real.
TheLordFoxington
Math is applied logic, which is applied philosophy, which is applied bullshit, which is applied political science.
Trollero
"Mathematics is the purest of the arts, as well as the most misunderstood"
shitheadtookmyname
Math is applied philosophy
shitheadtookmyname
I joke, but actually math used to be considered a liberal art, not science, which is why I was able to get a math degree and s liberal arts degree in four years: SIGNIFICANT overlap in required courses
wags18613000
And if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike
Barkinsons
I was interested in Chemistry in high school but once I realized that it will be just math I abandoned it. Now I apply math to biology and it's arguably the worse choice
Isorikk
You fool! That's just chemistry with feelings!
Makerofthingsmasherofstuff
My electrons are waving at you. Hello
Bubble181
Math is logic, and logic is philosophy.
nomikos
philosophy is ethics and behavioral psychology, which is basically biochemistry...
sushipig
Physics are the rules of this particular universe. Mathematics are the rules for how to write the rules for any universe.
Level21Magikarp
The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
justmemyselfi
This guy gets it
elten
Physics is not math, physics is described in the language of math.
AntiProtonBoy
Math is a model of relationships.
pinkmilkyway
The earth is a model of flattness /s
maybeamonster
Yes, but it's rigorously made up by people whose sole joys are finding impossible to break arguments or poking holes therein.
TheSecondPiewackit
Just got my degree in math. This is frustratingly accurate.
thenetbear
Yep. This was posted on the door of one of those people
ironymus
Poking holes in theories is one of the favourite things scientists do for living
shitheadtookmyname
Right but scientists poke holes with evidence usually. Mathematicians poke holes with logic or otherwise construct things that they can rigorously prove HAVE no holes
TheMurderousCricket
And France is bacon.
TrumpRapesAndEatsChildren0002
Therefore knowledge is bacon.
IGetAllMyFactsFromHere
ChickenTendercles
Found the English major!
raeliena37
Math is the language the universe is written in.
080080
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1M2Vvb2tnb2NjbmNwZ2dtbjVwcHlhaDc2bmV5bWJ1a2ZqMms2NzZxdSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/hrvZ3g5rHfn1MhhLVt/200w.webp
TheOneFreiman
The universe doesn't care that we tried to quantize it, which is why our numbers don't always accurately describe it. Math is just an approximation. Then throw in shit like the observer effect and we have a very hard time finding out what things actually are.
AHartMurmur
I thought Math was discovered
TheSecondPiewackit
Just got my bachelors in Math. My opinion is that the vast majority of it is invented.
pinkmilkyway
Invented
ma8e
To answer that you first need to tell me what it means that something exists.
dreikommavierzehn
As much as language is discovered
Exyr
Math is made up to fit the observable universe. It does change.
shitheadtookmyname
No, you are talking about applied math, not math.
dreikommavierzehn
A much more common line of thought many mathematicians follow is breaking it down to the absolute fundamentals.
And at its absolute, there are no numbers, no letters, not even symbol. There is only a thought. And associative/logical thinking.
The first idea becomes the basis for an axiom and everything else builds from there. Including the first symbol, the first operation, the first number, .....much later down the line: the first equation to describe our observable universe
arikelrecords2000
I heard a description once that Newton isn't renowned for recognizing that an apple falling on his head is gravity, but rather for scaling up
Apple falls, so does dirt which creates a planet/ball which has the same force pulling everything including the moon and in turn falls towards the sun, which all falls towards some other larger body nearby and all the stars follow the same rule of gravitational pull which then affects...
And so on
shitheadtookmyname
There's also a lot that doesn't describe the observable universe.