Timpani
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Aug 25, 2020 12:11 PM
Timpani
123502
3625
98
tlamstrike
mike31815
You are so right. I wish more people would read this completely. Many may skip, as it looks like Trekkie-Talk at the beginning.
hyperchondriac
Same as war. "On Killing" by Dave Grossman discusses how casualty rates were very low until artillery distanced the act of killing.
RemiRixJones
I’ve been trying all quarantine to get a minimum wage temporary position. Grocery stores keep saying they’re desperate...
TheFreemen
I mean karl Marx predicted all this in 1848. why do you think anything even remotely related to communist ideology has always been vilified.
Selerox
The UK exam results recently is a perfect example. They were graded by algorithm. Which stripped 1000s of students of their grades and >>
Selerox
>> costing countless students places at university. Because their previously stellar grades were downgraded. What's even worse is that >>
Selerox
>> the algorithm accounted for the average grades of the school. So schools in poorer areas had their grades lowered MORE. So it became >>
Selerox
>> essentially impossible for a gifted student in a poor area to get top grades. Richer students weren't downgraded anywhere near as much.
TwoForSpookin
OMEGA1202
HandoB4Javert
Hornsoup
AeonDragon
Omg this is so perfect reaction and so true.
softsuit
You ought read `Weapons of Math Destruction ' ...... Really. This is the turning point.
kevbot5000
By Cathy O'Neil, of mathbabe.org fame.
softsuit
I was.. impressed. It is a coherent objective view of what is going on with connected data sources. And control.
kevbot5000
Leftist mathematicians are the best.
mikeatike
BriefausdemGeist
Then there’s the algorithms used for sifting job applications. Oh, you don’t speak three languages and only have 3 years of experience for
BriefausdemGeist
an entry level secretarial position? Tough cookies.
HaloArchitect
Don't need more than two languages for 99% of North American jobs, or one language for 95% of them. The real kicker is requiring five years
HaloArchitect
experience for something that's only existed a year or two (certain programming languages or job positions).
Writemeariver
In first episode of NG Q put the Enterprise on trial for all of our sins bc of a dark period between here and then. Growing pains i guess...
Writemeariver
Hopefully we can avoid that but we have to act soon
geoffreyfourmyle
cubsfan05
The measure of a man is one of the best episodes. No shows now with such serious, thought provoking themes. Now all braindead entertainment
HaloArchitect
There are other deeply philisophical shows, if you're willing to look. They've just never catered to the mainstream.
TwoAccountsDown
Oh, this was not about the Maddox I was thinking of. I think.
xlugiax
Why don’t people just right a short story/blog instead of 18374 tweets it’s kind of annoying and by kind of I mean it’s annoying
VesselOfHate
Yeah, you know, excellent point. We don't have the automation to do our job, we have the automation to enforce us doing our jobs. This is
VesselOfHate
way worse.
VesselOfHate
but ugh the term "tech bro" as an insult. Hilarious how he writes this whole insightful article about boxing people up so you can abstract
VesselOfHate
them away and unleash your cruelty without regret, by starting off with that. lol
ShitIstoleFrom4chan
Well I guess this thread is the first positive thing that came from the shitshow called "Star Trek: Picard"
OberynNymeros
This was a major theme of Westworlds third season.
ThisIsYourLifeNow
Thats why unions are important in our country. The union protects the rights of the workers and extends them every year. You dont want to >
ThisIsYourLifeNow
agree to this terms? Ok, than you are not allowed to hire ANYONE. Its not extortion if there is dialog. Both sides win some and lose some.>
ThisIsYourLifeNow
THATS how this should work. Not like US Companies exploiting you to the last drop of blood and you should be happy about it. We dont want >
ThisIsYourLifeNow
this companies here! You should not exist in the first place. And you cant treat humans like that just because your country allows and >
ThisIsYourLifeNow
even promotes it!
Zipbang
This can be applied to trade jobs too. Making electrical, plumping, etc systems so efficient that we'll need a fraction of the labor.
zurak
But couldn't this be mitigated by a program that taxes those businesses higher to help pay for Universal Income?
Zipbang
Oh yes! I was just making sure the trade bro's knew that they were not excluded from this.
3dartwork
I'm always fascinated how people use Twitter to write essays
DavidBrooker
Ironically, by refusing to make good and evil a black and white matter, by showing the humanity of adversaries and treating moral 1/2
DavidBrooker
issues as without a singular answer, TNG, despite it's over-enunciating stage actors, contrived plots, plastic sets and bad costumes, 2/3
DavidBrooker
has a more realistic take on conflict than any of the slick, well-choreographed, well-shot eras that came after. 3/3
ulubai
DougTheLlama
This is what I thought of!
drewcrosby
*awkward cat meow in the background*
VictusVonGuyver
There is the DS9 episode. It showed how the Federation almost had a military coup for a dictatorship because people were paranoid after >
VictusVonGuyver
Fear of attack on earth, this they start power grabbing. This was years before 9/11 and it was exactly what happened. DS9 also showcased >
VictusVonGuyver
Narcissistic leaders like Dukat who lie and manipulate people towards their self destruction, and I'm sad to say that the US fits that.
strackley
DS9 has a two part episode in season 3 10-11 where they’re teleported to the wrong year and it’s 2024 SFO. It’s about homeless camps>>
strackley
And the division of people into categories. All stems from a major crisis beginning in 2020. The episode was written in 93 and spot on.
VictusVonGuyver
That was Super Erie, because Florida actually tried that. Rounded up the homeless and stuck them in a enclosure with arm guards, a prison >
leodavinci1
The last story in Asimov's "I, Robot" dealt with this. It's on a larger world-wide scale when computers are running the world's economy, 1
leodavinci1
but it's essentially the same idea. Only in his story it deals more with individual businesses that are manipulated into going out of 2
leodavinci1
business in order for other businesses to succeed. The story (Asimov) recognized this as bad for the business owner and their family 3
leodavinci1
(employees were not discussed), but it was considered acceptable for the greater good of the world economy. 4
aPokal
"I, robot" is collection of short stories. I think you mean "The Evitable Conflict" within it.
Surbies
The gig economy is destroying the working class by pedaling “convenience”.
WaffleHouseDJ
The gig economy is what actors and musicians have been living off of forever. It is what some people desire, freedom to work when they want.
zurak
Isn't the post saying gig jobs are a SYMPTOM of a larger problem? Also, gig jobs make a lot of sense in certain occupations...
zurak
Also, convenience is worth money to people. It's a fine benefit, but maybe we shouldn't tie health insurance to a job?
zurak
or money shouldn't be so tight you need a 2nd or 3rd "gig" job? They're meant for extra money, really, but we know thats not always the case
zurak
ultimately it's more nuanced then "gig jobs = bad". We have to analyze how they're being used by the business and workers
HaloArchitect
But trickle down economics... invisible hand... by your boot straps... gumption... land of opportunity... own two hands... freedom to work!
Problemwoodchuck
Fans: See how good TNG could be? This is what we want from Picard. CBS: Needs more 'splosions
MDtheGM
I liked Picard well enough for it's world building and looks into the universe we didn't have before. Hoping season 2 is better though.
MDtheGM
Usually takes 3 seasons for a trek series anyway to hit it's stride and work things out.
PirateDickCheney
I know some people liked it but oof I thought it was Rough
dirrrtypiratehookerrr
Fans: We love Star Trek for all its complexity. JJAbrams: never seen the show but I know people love cgi fight scenes the most
LokJok
JJAbrams is distilled p00p. He just rehashes a proven formula, adds "mystery" with no thought-out plan. Hackery at its worst.
MutteringMisanthrope
DeepBeyondBelief
He speaks the truth.
Helixninja333
Don't forget excessive lens flairs! Because blinding light is always a human favorite!
Mewmus
Hugh is played by the original ST-TNG Actor
quzar
While Icheb was played by a living effigy.
TychoTychoAlba
Seriously tho the actor they got for adult Icheb was smoking.
quzar
Excellent interpretation. I meant though that they murdered him violently for the actions of the original Icheb actor
TychoTychoAlba
Oh really? What did that guy do
quzar
Supported Kevin Spacy's position on twitter against Anthony Rapp's allegations of sexual assault. https://youtu.be/Uv-wmixiiMA?t=2232
simianruler
Zreen
*was
Mewmus
*IS on Star Trek: Picard
Zreen
*IS DEAD on Star Trek: Picard
Mewmus
semantics
Zreen
I'll give you that. Truce?
DeusExSpockina
STILL MAD
DeusExSpockina
AND ICHEB
DeusExSpockina
HOW FUCKING DARE
SushiJaguar
Of course, this does assume that without the software, people would stop fucking each other over for one more ruble. Absolutely false 1/2
SushiJaguar
assumption right there, but the point still stands and it would be a step in the right direction. 2/2
JimStarluck
I would argue this is not something inherent to humans, but a consequence of the system we inhabit.
HaloArchitect
You're not wrong, but most people have some empathy, because when you are part of a community, there are consequences to your actions that
HaloArchitect
you might still have to pay for.
VCJunky
Technology and automation is a "neutral tool". It can be used for good or evil.
ABn0rmal1
Same as guns.
FoamingToad
Key point though, auto/technocrats will tend to have decisions that favour themselves. And these are the wielders of the algorithms.
crazymojomonkey
obviously... we're talking about the evil part rn
zurak
i don't think everyone's getting that message
metalmouth
A neutral system is a system without compassion. Inhuman leading to inhumane.
zurak
neutral in the hypothetical, not the application. Ex. we can design a software to be neutral OR more robust & designed w/ compassion
zurak
Technology is not inherently evil until we, like you said, fail to make it humane
Sapphirewolf
I could easily argue that enormous Corporations such as Target, Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot are just as similar. Since the people making
Angrar
Any company that has workers who arent being paid a living wage, in fact
RunanD
I love how this comment section is a bunch of folk just discovering anti-capitalism -today-
TPope
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/01/ai-has-already-taken-over-its-called-the-corporation/
ATLandNerdy
Not the same at all, Gig workers don't have minimum wages, or maximum hours, or work breaks. The algorithm can run it as lean as possible
SatanicSpirals
The temperature of the Kmart I worked for in Ohio was controlled in Chicago.
justnotthatinteresting
Amazon literally has a digital task master in their warehouse operations
RxNoob
Exactly at my job I'm a "manager" but computer does everything inventory, scheduling, etc and I'm judged on how closely I do what it says
apeshigh
It wouldn't be arguing, it is the same point......
Trollydarollypolly
All assessment tests during prehire determine if they are easily controlled worker bees. Only a certain type of people are selected.
Trollydarollypolly
They only pick a certain type to be in control/management and a certain type to be the workers.
HaloArchitect
Aren't both still hired for tracatability/docility?
Trollydarollypolly
Yes. They want "yes men" in big corporations.
Notme68
All they how are good liars. Honest people get excluded as do bad liars.
Sapphirewolf
Certain decisions, are likely hundreds of miles away from the store they're making the decision for. They don't have to feel
theDogter
Investment banking. Anytime shareholders decide to "maximize profits" every one down the chain gets squeezed. And every drop goes to the top
maddshakes
I’ve seen this in live entertainment chains. The decisions made by people from a different demographic culture deciding what was best.
psychologisttheologist
I could further argue the same is true for politicians in D.C. That's why I like stronger local gov, weaker federal gov.
TheFreemen
local or federal they're all inefficient since neither ever removes corruption from the equation.
psychologisttheologist
It's way easier to vote out local politicians. Not even governors; I mean city council and mayor and the like.
SalmySwims
Home Depot's thermostats (the ones used in the stores) are determined by HQ in Atlanta. Every store is subject to Atlanta's weather.
DanteHicks79
Starbucks climate controls were programmed based on past weather data - not current forecasts. Everything was based off prior figures.
TrapsAreIllegal
Man, which idiot made that decision.
PimpinKen
The TSC by my house in MN stopped selling salt for ice in February, since the HQ was located in the south and ice was gone by then.
flavivsaetivs
We have to go and manually turn the AC back on at night at Lowes, otherwise it heats up to 100 degrees.
SerenePrincess013
Same applies for Walmart. We're all subject to Bentonville's weather.
jshbee
Bentonvilles rather temperate, I live here!
SerenePrincess013
Yeah, well, when it's 70 degrees in Bentonville, & 30 where I'm at, & they have the AC on, it makes for a cold work day.
Sapphirewolf
Guilty for what they decide because it's just a number in their employee list, not a person they've ever talked with and don't know.
theshinobi23
For most pay and benefits, the corporations I've worked for have usually used 3rd party advisors to make changes. Same reason.
Gamegeneral
I once got in trouble at a Menards in Illinois for something a person in Wisconsin saw on a camera.
psychologisttheologist
Most smaller scale decisions (like personnel decisions) happen at the store level, but policy does come from the top.
RatherDashingOne
Wait 'til you hear about the military!
MrRandom314159
An extension of that is every suitably large group has that ability, unless local leaders can override high policy.
FollyGambit
As I was reading this post, I had the same thought. Don't blame the software for something that has been happening long before it.
yaboiskinnypeen
Oh trust me, I'm lucky enough to have the CEO from the big red circle company come into my store not infrequently- doesn't care at all.
yaboiskinnypeen
Nice enough guy, just seems to be business first above everything else.
Longbowgun
Sociopathic tendencies are good for profit margins. They also can make sociopaths rich.
TheFrenchGirl
I agree with you. Human don't need software to don't care about each other, we do that already pretty well.
NickRivieraMD
I agree completely. My experience leads me to consider that half the purpose of middle management is to buffer responsibility in this way.
LonelyHumanBoy
Take the 'agement' out of management in that sentence and it is clear as day in plain sight.
NickRivieraMD
Ha, I considered adding that point, that even middlemen perform the same function in some ways, but didn't want to dilute the point.
drunkpanther
Big corporations do have a similar issue, but the distance comes from levelsnof management. A human still has to fire a human.
Everyfootisalegend
Seeing what humans are capable of, I fail to see the consolation in that fact.
Dedededededededede
Yes, but as former middle management for a big corp, they don't MAKE the decision. They're directed to fire a person. Or lose *their* job.
mithiwithi
To pull that back into the thread, that's arguably analogous to Riker being dragooned into prosecuting the case against Data in that ep.
Dedededededededede
True!!
NickRivieraMD
Doesn't make much difference, because the human doing the firing is not the one making the decision to fire.
Neoeon
On another post we got into this discussion about Uber. For some strange reason some of the working class on here were defending what Uber
Neoeon
Taxi is and what it does. Their arguement was the company line - UberTaxi is a platform for putting drivers with customers and they have no
Neoeon
more responsibility for their "Partners" than platforms like eBay or Fiverr have to their sellers or freelancers respectively. My reply to
Neoeon
this was the practical outcome of Uber's business model; they gather a labour force, offer them work for good money, then gain all the
Neoeon
benefits of profiteering from having a labour force without any of the responsibility to ensure laws - minimum wage, sick leave, pensions,
Neoeon
etc. - or even human respect - treating people like people instead of disposable cogs in their money making machine who cant fire on a whim
znuff
Too long.
Neoeon
Awww shucks. Well, good thing your inability to read isnt my problem. Maybe you should go have a juice box and take a nappy nap. The
bracketfungus
Hehehe +1
Neoeon
corporations seeking to create sweat shops welcome your job applications Im sure.
bracketfungus
That's interesting. What makes Uber different from Ebay/Fiver/Etsy then, or is the argument that they're all problematic?
Neoeon
A practicality that, no offense, I would think is obvious. I mean, eBay is a mercantile eStore platform - you risk buying or making products
bracketfungus
That division is the one that's obvious to me, I just wasn't sure how far the argument had been taken. I'm a gig worker in the traditional
bracketfungus
sense (entertainment). My industry is ripe for advantage taking, just like Uber.
Neoeon
Me too. Thats where Im getting all this from. I just looked at my own situation and stacked up how the company has treated me and others.
Neoeon
and selling them and its all on you and done from your own abode. Fiverr is a freelance service and can be considered like eBay (the product
Neoeon
is you, or, perhaps, your time and skill). Etsy is craft eBay. UberTaxi and UberEats however requires you to have a vehicle and attend an
Neoeon
area of a city - putting yourself and an expensive possession at risk in public from violence and abuse - where you must devote hours of