Anthony313
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Sep 1, 2021 1:25 PM
Anthony313
90357
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ElbowDeepInTheElbowDeepBandwagon
Gonna need a source.
tinyfootprints
I disagree. This description is terribly misleading.
afnoot42
I call BS.
Dawnbringer551
Oh god VLR is making less sense...
ItHurtsToSquirt
stronomer
This very much sounds like b.s.
DeLiRanTeBR
No.
skipweasel
*fractions
StoicHoneyBadger
Skizmo
Moving light in backwards direction is NOT the same as time travel.
kkanne20
that doesn't make any sense explained this way, lol
LiquidSodium
So if im an alien from millions of years ago, is it gonna look all weird when it leaves my flashlight?
Cantandwont
So if a tree falls and no one hears it, Hitler dies as a baby in the womb. Got it.
BobAllen2004
Maybe you kids aren't ready for that yet
dwarfinaflask87
Well, good guess, but actually no. That's called "collapse of the wave function" and it has nothing to do with retro causality.
BigRobbo
Ugggh I cant even begin to explain how this is so very very badly explained
BigRobbo
The implication here is that somehow we can influence events in the past. whilst we can just seem them... differently
gendalfthegray
How can I get back in future, and not let my eyes break of this retrocasual bullshit text
ziralien
Whoa, dude.
skapanda616
THECosmosTerror
Too lazy to dig this up. Thank you for posting it.
FluffyGreyJedi
Trying to boil down complex concepts like this into a meme-sized format is just as bad as straight up anit-intellectualism
TakeTheStairs
it seems to prove retro causality, or maybe it proves that the experiment is broken and a better experiment might expalain things
Alphard428
Or the terms just mean something technical in this context which isn't the same as the common notion. Pop sci writers love to abuse this.
Alphard428
Although here it's pretty much just BS.
PubstarHero
Certain interpretations of QM state that the results is due to quantum entanglement.
greggbert
This description is so far from any actual physics theory that it might as well just say they reversed the polarity.
Schoctane
People try to use the counterintuitive nature of quantum physics theory to support some pretty dumb ideas. I.e. Deepak Chopra.
outthere987
I’m gonna change the outcome of quantum events with my positive attitude it’s not magic it’s science /s
DocTanner
This is only one interpretation of the effect. Other interpretations are available.
Strostkovy
Pretty sure this is relativity of simultaneouity (however you spell that) where time dilation and length contraction also make the exact 1/
PerfectManhattanUp
Nope that's a special relativity thing, this is a misunderstanding of QM
Strostkovy
Time that interactions occur at vary with observer location and velocity. It's more a matter of distorted perspective than actual time 2/
Strostkovy
travel. Minute physics has excellent videos on Lorentz transformations, which is the math at play here 3/3
Alfadorfox
The many-worlds interpretation doesn't require retrocausality. The act of observing simply determines which universe you're in; the event in
Alfadorfox
the past actually turned out both ways and you're just now finding out which way it happened in your reality.
Icantgetout
SC fan?
Alfadorfox
please clarify: Star Control, South Carolina, or something else?
outthere987
I’m guessing from context Sean Carrol
Alfadorfox
Huh! Hadn't heard of. Will have to read up on. Thank you!
Icantgetout
Something else :)
TheCat5001
Physicist here. This is explained so poorly it's not even wrong. "Wrong" would imply it makes enough sense for the opposite to be true.
ZenToaster
It's explained very poorly - Electrical Engineer that had to take quantum physics/special relativity class in BS degree
outthere987
No I have quantum telepathy and I can influence future events with my mind because of quantum uncertainty you can’t tell me otherwise /s
Rhythmaster
Yeah I saw this "quantum physics" meme on imgur and I immediately went to the comments to see how it was bullshit. Already knew it was, but
Rhythmaster
Nice to have people who actually know physics call it out too
idekwut
Thank you. Also, what's described is not a recent discovery by any means; and frankly should be common knowledge at this point in modernity.
nobodyspecial995
This is the absolute worst way you could possibly describe these effects. So poorly phrased that it's entirely wrong
RandomIsotope
but you observed it so he had to make a choice in presentation.
barnwolf
Scietists say @OP has the most brilliantly worded post ever. He literally did something otherwise thought to be impossible.
NVGoddesscottage
Oh thank gawd, I thought I was just stupid.
Arnstrong
Pwetty pweese
FoxySpirit
I'd say "it's difficult": https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-retrocausality/
Masterleftspud
Can you correct it for us pwees
iImgurwhilehighsoimsorryaheadoftimeforanystupidshitimightsay
this is the internet, of course they can't.
PubstarHero
If you have 30 minutes: https://youtu.be/8ORLN">wAgs">https://youtu.be/8ORLN_KwAgs and https://youtu.be/tafGL02EUOA
Rocketship27
.
AceOfShovels
Basically, the reason we can't know both a particle's position and velocity is because the only way humans *or* their instrumentation could>
gaidinbdj
Don't get hung up the "observer" bit. That's one specific case. The general case is any time it's interacting with something else, even..
gaidinbdj
...if there's no explicit observation or measurement.
AceOfShovels
In the broadest sense yes, just for practical purposes humans can know nothing specific without observing it. This is regurgitated so much >
AceOfShovels
>observe/measure such things is by bouncing EM radiation of a wavelength shorter than the particle's diameter. Which, once you get small >
AceOfShovels
> enough, means only gamma rays do the trick. But those have so much energy that simply shooting them at said particle just to look at it >
AceOfShovels
>will impart enough energy to change the particle's velocity. Like trying to track a coin floating through space except the only way you >
indianajoe
Particles=quantum objects -> In "superposition" until interacted with -> The classical, physical path isn't "real" until that interaction
DarkerSavant
So schrodingers light wave?
DarkerSavant
Apparently I’m not the only one who thought this. I hit reply before seeing comments.
indianajoe
Very hard to fit that into 140 letters. "Wave-particle duality" is a good introduction; learning further would be "wave function collapse"
soulsource
DeBroglie-Bohm interpretation is still valid wrt. experimental evidence. The path might exist and be real, just not classical.
Ryanator50
so it's just the schrodinger's cat thing again?
Timushi
This is literally the origin of Schrodinger's Cat. Check out the Double Slit Experiment.
Ryanator50
oh I know about the double slit experiment. makes me furious.
beziot
This is imgur, the answer is always kitty.
EarthRickFromC137
To go one step further this is the entire reason for schrödinger’s cat existing. To explain this superposition paradox.
miserycones
I'm not going to pretend that I understand quantum physics, but I can't believe that light makes choices. There has to be a better phrasing
83aurelius
Science doesn't care what you believe. It will continue to science regardless.
HandoB4Javert
whoo-whoo
FattyNorman
It doesn't actually make a decision. It's a way to say that a specific path is taken where before it had infinite possibilities.
freeloaderr
We made the choice for the light.
Tarlon
The more you understand the building blocks of reality, the more you realise it's constructed by a MADMAN.
Nlchacon
Why not, as we don't quite have a true understanding of what is consciousness.
manulofdoom
I'm fairly sure it has nothing to do with crystals, chakras, or whatever new age woo you are into
SoraHjort
If you want to learn about quantum in a more digestible format. PBS Space Time has done quite a few quantum physics videos.
SoraHjort
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wxG5KMAFik&list=PLsPUh22kYmNCGaVGuGfKfJl-6RdHiCjo1
wazscience
Basically, there is an infinite number of ways that a single photon can take to go from point a to b. Until the photon hits the viewer
wazscience
In point b, the photon can take all paths equally, however once we look/detect the photon, it means that it had to take a define path to get
wazscience
To point b. In essence, we forced a path to be created when the photon was at point a before it ever left in the past.
jouhaanDesign
Now imagine all the things you wouldn’t have believed in the past, and all the things you won’t believe in the future…
rbudrick
Look up free 1hr documentary on Youtube called The Simulation Hypothesis. Very easy to watch & the best laymans explanation ive ever seen.
koollman
reality engine does not render stuff when you're not looking, but will render current and past stuff if you check it
WhatBackWaterCountry
The simplest explanation is the Everedian or “many worlds” interpretation.
AzaellexTytalus
I recommend a book called "Alice in Quantum Land". It's a fun read in a weird sort of way.
LtKifKroker
It would basically just intercept the light before it teaches where it went in the past causing a spot of dimness.
XuncuTheTiger
I believe it's more "both past exist simultaneously, can effect one another, until you look at it."
manulofdoom
Yes, this post is bs.
OberynNymeros
You are right - this is metaphysical BS perpetuated by people who don’t really understand physics.
OberynNymeros
I mean - this post is basically a intro primer to a lot of Deepak Chopra horse sh!t and other assorted quantum woo woo
ConfirmedAdultivity
I think that "retro causality" is a debated concept, the phrasing of "choice" is also poor. Light does not choose, but rather extends as 1/
ConfirmedAdultivity
Waves across a given area. By interacting with the wave, i.e. by measuring where it is, the wave collapses and the light is located at a 2/
ConfirmedAdultivity
Point rather than an area. As mentioned elsewhere here, the double-slit experiment demonstrates this clearly. However, philosophically, 3/
ConfirmedAdultivity
We might as well say that the wave-nature of light lets it cover an expanding area as a set electromagnetic energy package (photon) 4/
ConfirmedAdultivity
But by interacting with it, we collapse the wave to a expend the energy in sensing the photon. We know it is there, because it interacts 5/
PimpinKen
If you like the band "The Eels" check out the documentary "parallel worlds, parallel lives." His dad authored the "many worlds" theory that>
PimpinKen
The show "quantum leap" was based on.
wmzer0mw1
The last episode of startrek tng plays with this idea. Easier to understand there
copingcabana
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of quantum effects. Light behaves as both a particle and a wave. When observed, it will give the [1]
copingcabana
[2] impression that it's a wave if you set up your experiment to see waves. If you set up to see particles, it will act like a particle.
copingcabana
[3] In reality, it's both until you observe it.
ArcaneEyes
If i see something in one way, and someone else sees it another, there's a damn good chance neither of us really know what we're looking at.
ArcaneEyes
Now I'm no physicist, but it seems bizarre to me that it should change, makes more sense that you observe the properties you set out to see.
ChickenVegetas
Incoming light waifus
CardeasIV
And also...the fact that it already moved in the past, hardly changes the fact that you are seeing it right now, it heavily reminds me of 1/
CardeasIV
filosophy problems, as "things only exist when i percieve them" (and when that blew up, they realized God percieves it all at all times)
afnoot42
Thank you.
69thStPepper
As I understood it, light follows a path determined by a number of physical factors, but what their saying is that light seems to follow a..
69thStPepper
...path based on conditions that didn't exist until after it would already have responded to them. Or maybe saying light time travels
TrapperQ
The closer to C you travel, the less time you experience relative to, say, me. If photons travel at C they experience no time. 1/2
TrapperQ
So the photon is simultaneously absorbed as it is emitted. All this 'wiggling across the cosmos' bullshit is your problem, not the photons.
BigFatBobbie
nessusDM
Think of it like this: from the photon's point of view time doesn't exist. So it doesn't matter WHEN things happen, just that they do
paintingagency
Welcome to the quantum fuckshow, my friend. We don't float down here, but occasionally we randomly tunnel right through solid objects.
VaultGirl69
I just want a grilled cheese sandwich.
dekket
Look up the double slit experiment. There are a few videos on the ol' tube that explains it relatively well. Pardon the bad pun.
ZenToaster
Not true. Stop making it seem like people can't learn it. https://youtu.be/Iuv6hY6zsd0
dekket
I didn't realize that's what I was doing. At all.
chetnixandflill
Gonna google double slit experiment but I don't expect much science from it.
PimpinKen
Depends on the scientific research you're doing.
Drake6978
I see no bad pun here. +1
AyrA
This one explains it fairly well: https://youtu.be/NvzSLByrw4Q?t=27
Rogermooreseyebrow
Double slit doesn't sound like something I dare to Google
wariniar
This deserves more upvotes!
KevinBhall
I feel like admitting you don't understand quantum physics is the first step towards understanding quantum physics.
RawBlow
You and I are a form of light. Sentient light. We make choices.
Dagordae
Pretty damn solid for light. And not particularly energetic.
MightyZephyr
Negative, I am a meat popsicle
Atomic2
We believe* we make choices. If you believe strictly in universal causality, even your thoughts are a based on physics.
Fairemont
In theory, it should be impossible to make choices, as choices are based upon factors learned and experienced in the past,
Fairemont
And therefore, your choices are based on numerous extremely small details but there is only ever one actual path forward, even if options
Fairemont
Are observable in retrospect or present at the time of choosing.
thegreatwhiteblackartblackestmaster
You aren't a form of light, you just reflect it.
manulofdoom
Jaden Smith, is that you?
Givememyaccountback
The saying goes: if you think you understand quantum physics, you don't
SebastianCrab
It's as simple as cats in boxes and double slit tests!
ZenToaster
I hate this saying. It's just an excuse not to learn. Quantum just uses random distributions rather than defined values
Givememyaccountback
I don't interpret the saying that way. I see it as the more you understand, the more you realize there's a lot we don't understand
CallsignFatNinja
Space is big, really really big.
MrRobSteel
You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.
ArchMagos
You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but>
ArchMagos
Phulba
Observations cause probability eigenvectors to collapse into defined eigenvalues, reality is weird.
lighterletter
I think that a choice in perspective influences reality towards a perceived outcome. However minimal. Why it's important to be positive.
lighterletter
This was the whole idea behind the matrix, and it helped me change my life.
Idontwantmybrothertoknowmyname
Phulba
ArcaneEyes
Heimerdinger.
factotumjack
Also, observing doesn't mean "looked at", it means "interacted with in any way".
pumpkinpiepatch
Imagine if it wasnt weird and reality was predictable.
taitati
This was fucking interesting
ParanoydAndroid
This is not correct. It would be better phrased as, "measurement projects vectors onto an eigenvector (in the eigenbasis)." The
ParanoydAndroid
pre-measurement vector is an element of a Hilbert space with an eigenbasis, but does not have to be an eigenvector, and in fact rarely is.
PoopholeAintALoophole
Superposition and eiganstates oh my!
redheadshusband
I looked up eigenvector. Wow. Thank you.
cptwott
and eigenvalues?
PoopholeAintALoophole
And eiganstates
katieispuppy
Eiganna need a minute for this one
dreikommavierzehn
Just specific form of a multiplicative factor of a vector
lebowskisd
Thanks doc
ovastanda
Housemaster
Folio77
But how? Is it really doing something different when we're not looking? Is Toy Story a metaphor for quantum physics?
manulofdoom
Shitty phrasing again. It has nothing to do with looking, but with interacting. But the problem is, we don't know when exactly it happens>
manulofdoom
>, but at the moment when you got the measurement, it has definitely happened already
DavidBrooker
Take care: an 'observer' does not mean a conscious observer. A lot of metaphysical nonsense takes suggests there is some attributable 1/2
DavidBrooker
attribute of consciousness that causes such an interaction. That is not the case. For a particle to be 'observed' means for it to 2/3
DavidBrooker
interact with any other thing. 3/3
StSob
Not really. "Observer" doesnt have to be human, it can be a light sensor for example, or anything large enough really. AFAIK there are some
StSob
interpretations that include a sentient observer, but the most popular and reasonable ones dont.
Folio77
Yeah, but is it doing something different before it is detected?
Folio77
Could it be compared to, like... a water balloon hitting a wall... when it's in the air it's a balloon, when it hits the wall, it's water
GideonGrey
In layman's terms, photons act as both particles and waves, but which one they are changes under observation. This is oversimplified.
HalloIamherenow
It's more than just observation, it's if anyone could possibly have knowledge of that path light took regardless of observation...
HalloIamherenow
... the quantum eraser experiment is crazy
Shurikun
To further oversimplify: Reality just pretends to work while we're not looking.
ScatterbrainedIdiot
Or, to simplify even further... Well... Light makes choices.
oggyswe
I still wonder what they count as observation. The photons that is.
Megamastermetamememaker
When the wave function has collapsed.
lifeguard96
Is this that higgs bison thing?
Folio77
That's the thing that gives particles mass isn't it?
PballQhead
No, that's the explanation for why physical objects have mass.
Folio77
If you really want to bake your noodle on that theme, look up the vacuum decay theory.
Fasrill
Here's a good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijFm6DxNVyI
Ibringthegoose
No no, that's the higgs Bionicle thing. You're thinking of the large land animal.
Kehelekarakh
No, no, that's the Higgs Bison. You're thinking of a type of aquatic recreation.
Onlypostsquestions
Actually that's the Higg's Bowling. Bionicles are a brand of lego toys.
DavidBrooker
Eigenvectors do not collapse into eigenvalues. Eigenvalues collapse into an eigenvalue. This misunderstanding seems to be based on the 1/n
DavidBrooker
phrase to "collapse the wavefunction", when, in a strict mathematical sense, the function does not collapse, only its eigenvalues. Take 2/n
DavidBrooker
the classical example Av=λv, for a vector v. If A is a matrix and lambda is a scalar, then lambda is the eigenvalue and v is an 3/n
Ilikecreativepeople
DavidBrooker
eigenvector. If many values of lambda are permissible, a possible analogy of 'collapsing the wavefunction' would be for an outside 4/n