HummingBirrb
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Aug 18, 2026 5:38 PM
HummingBirrb
26038
1203
27
huffnpuff72
Unconstrained capitalism is the problem. Capitalism needs constraints so it does not harm others.
Thisisbullshitalready
I am a socialist. Made that way by 62 years of watching some people suffer while a tiny few live like kings.
Goblonicfart
The latest poster child of the American left being a Dubai landlord pretty much sums up why the world dislikes you. Yeah, he is prolly better than his direct opposition but that opposition has made you not really have a left to begin with, only a left that looks slightly left of the far right.
thefrozenorth
It's called Democratic Capitalism...look it up. After WW II: unions were strong, income was redistributed and greed did not overwhelm good business. And then it was gone.
HummingBirrb
True, Franklin D Roosevelt coined it in order to tackle communism sympathy, ended up actually building the US infrastructure and offered livable wages
SploogeMcDuck316
Republicans be like: "If they come for the billionaires, then in 10,000 years they will come for all of us!"
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Further illustrating that El-Sayed is just a bandaid and much more is needed. Capitalism can't be effectively constrained.
HeresYourSauce
A lot of the original economistic had the same idea, and the version of capitalism I was taught in schools required regulations.
I didn't of the idea that regulation was absolutely always forbidden until adulthood. It's just bizarre.
Arcanum3000
Fucking Adam Smith was deeply suspicious of the "merchant" class (the rich owner class) and believed a robust social safety net was necessary for a healthy economy.
chata954
I would prefer he be like yea, what are you my mother? Im not making the us socialist just getting the social to reach the poors and less for the corps and billionaires.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
Almost like some kind of social market economy
sadurdaynight
I believe that citizenry should be treated like a union, and govt, voted by the citizeney, should act as our union reps. Companies want labor on-demand during booms, but expect labor to eat the cost of getting educated to meet the labor demands. Companies want to pay folks peanuts to survive, then lay folks off on downturns and blame people for not saving enough to survive. But if the company has peoblems they expect a hand out. Our tax dollars should help people. Companies help themselves.
JokerFrown
that is radical thought because it isnt capitalist.
ThatGuyFromJustSouthOfTheMiddleOfNowhere
DJThuglifeSupreme
Managed capitalism
Layinginbed
Amazon should pay the biggest tax bill for roads since they use the fuck out of them
EveryUsernameIsTaken4
Cronism happens with excessive regulation. The moment you make the state powerful, it becomes a target for lobbying by corporations.
MajorasTerribleFate
When the temperature has been slowly dialed up to 150°F, someone offering 78°F must sound like an arctic villain.
malakim
Madness! Sadly, American hypercapitalism is encroaching more and more on the more regulated regions of the world like Europe (mostly because the people in power see the american billionaires and want a piece of the pie). At least that's what it feels like
SpoonOfDoom
Got the same feeling. There's also the fact that a huge part of big tech, social media and the internet in general is basically American, and we are just now kinda sorta starting to try to have our own services in some niches and call it "sovereignty". But in practice most people are still using or are even dependent on American services like google, gmail, whatsapp, amazon, etc, as well as consuming American movies, music, and other media,so it's kinda socially "invading" European that way.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Cool well I am a radical and anyone who still believes in the capitalist system is fucking stupid. You cannot regulate something away from its intrinsic function. The system is fundamentally exploitative and oppressive. The only way forward is its abolition and anyone whose goal is not towards that end is wasting people's time.
DarkZalgo
That's just childish dude. Just because the US is one of the shittiest implementations of unregulated capitalism doesn't mean it can't be regulated. Nearly every other developed country in the world does regulate it.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
And nearly every country in the world is an Imperialist empire responsible for the oppression of the working class, your point? Just because a few countries make concessions doesn't mean they aren't fundamentally oppressive. Many of those concessions are only possible because of Imperialist oppression happening abroad subsidizing that prosperity.
When that stops working, they will turn fascist just like the US.
It isn't "childish" to have a systemic understanding from a leftist perspective.
DarkZalgo
Jesus Christ dude. I am genuinely worried about your state of mind. I strongly suggest using sondermind, you can get the help you need there, they work with most insurances as far as I'm aware.
cbomb707
He is suggesting the liberal compromise. Where they can regulate down the corruption to the bare minimum before people rise up and kill their donors. Its labor unions and stuff. Good but still lives within the evils of capitalism. - By contrast Socialists would argue that Capitalism is straight up antithetical to Democracy, that by allowing people to have that much money (and therefore power) they are emboldened to bypass our laws and the corruption cycle starts anew.
Dannoboyo
This.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
This is bullshit liberal compromise that doesn't understand you cannot regulate capitalism. Rosa Luxembourg said it best:
TheRealArclight
It has been done.....but the republicans of course deregulate..so the process goes in circles. What we need to do is turn them into law.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
"has to" according to what authority? There is nothing demanding we must go through their system to change our lives. Other ways are possible.
Fuck rule of law and the state. That bureaucratic bullshit is part of the problem.
TheRealArclight
under a republican rule yes......
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Under any imperialist rule. Fuck the systems of hierarchical authority. Do you think Imperialist oppression is excusable when it is endorsed by a Democrat instead of a Republican?
Dannoboyo
Give me an example of an actual country that truly represents the type of economic system you idealize.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
One not yet existing currently is irrelevant. There was a time when capitalism didn't exist but we managed to build it into a global economic system.
If your logic is that "it doesn't exist now so it couldn't possibly exist" then you have the critical thinking skills of a toddler.
Dannoboyo
But you know everything. Every power structure that has ever existed is prone to corruption. You know what people are drawn to power and authority,
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Never said I knew everything so you can fuck all the way off with that bad faith bullshit.
Yes, people are drawn to power and authority, which is why the solution is to revolutionize our systems of government to abolish arbitrary social hierarchies and distribute power in a decentralized fashion so that corruption of the individual is not empowered by having unjust authority over others.
SamaelQliphoth
So he's a social democrat, then. At least from my understanding of the term.
OejaNegra
Which is exactly regulated capitalism. Every time someone here names an european country as an example of successful socialism is actually regulated capitalism.
SamaelQliphoth
Pretty much, from what I understand. The "Nordic Model" is [largely] social democracy, to the best of my knowledge.
Sulexar
So you are socialist. Socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. Stupid people just think all capitalism is libertarianism.
Allrighty
Socialism begins at anti-capitalism.
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Socialism and capitalism are mutually exclusive. He is speaking of social democracy.
AShartInTheWind
Capitalism will never been effectively regulated, because as capital consolidates, the power of the wealthy increases. They then use this power to rewrite the rules in their favor.
ElorYosnak
This. The problem that liberal capitalists run into, is that the regulations that would actually fix the problem are regulations that make the society socialist.
"Governments must do price control and hiring control". That's an awesome policy that would fix a lot of problems with corpos. It is socialism, to be clear.
"Megacorps eating small businesses to destroy innovation is bad, but megacorps are useful"
So we regulate the Megacorp to be a government business. Oops, that's socialism.
AShartInTheWind
This is why I became an anarchist. Pure socialism under an authoritarian government had a tendency to become state capitalism, which doesn't eradicate worker exploitation, only shifts ownership to a political elite class instead of an owning class.
ElorYosnak
I absolutely support my anarchist brethren, though personally don't subscribe.
I'm too much of a trekkie, and my heart is red.
AShartInTheWind
Red.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Bingo. Many leftist philosophers and economists across history have written you cannot reform a system out of its intrinsic function and the capitalist system is fundamentally exploitative in favor of the owning class. Any attempt to regulate that power will be dismantled because of how capitalism fundamentally works as an economic system.
Sonicschilidogs
My general take: Socialism for needs (water, food, shelter, healthcare, education, public transport) capitalism for wants (cars, games, television, movies, art, restaurants, travel)
TheDoctorCrankenstein
gnomedeplume
Doesn't solve the problem of the workers who cater to those wants being exploited by capitalism
Sonicschilidogs
Unions...... I mean everyone is going to be exploited to some degree, or do you think hospital beds magically treat patients and clean themselves? Society is a collective with the understanding that you will divert some of your skills and belongings, and others will do the same, so the community has everything it needs.
Allrighty
Exploitation ≠ work. Work without exploitation means full compensation for all the value created.
gnomedeplume
Desperately missing or ignoring the point
Sonicschilidogs
Desperately missing or ignoring reality.
gnomedeplume
Yes you are
CorvidPrime
It’s almost like these “radical” liberals are just decent human beings with rational ideas on policy.
livingonagiantfireball
Isent he the same guy who say democrat shoudnt go far left?
CorvidPrime
Not to my knowledge, but I’m not from his state, so I don’t follow him very closely.
TripleDane
"decent human beings" ?
sound like radical terrorism on American culture right there
Cookiesnm1lk
how DARE they be decent human beings and not lgbtq hating babyfuckers! do they KNOW how much money the billionaires won't make?! they'll almost.... not notice it at all! THE HORROR! WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES?!
sadurdaynight
They want people to have the protections of a collective labor union while companies benefit from well cared for and educated labor pool they can hire and fire on demand knowing folks will be taken care of until the next labor boom. But companies don't want to pay for that. They want to outsource all issues with labor to labor while pocketing all profits from the labor. That has the change. The country has to unionize as a whole and set the rules for business to engage us by.
TheVampireDante
"Common sense, so rare it's a superpower"
HandoB4Javert
Meanwhle
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
There's no such thing as a radical liberal.
Nim449
We should always remember that the term “liberal” has undergone a lot of change. When progressives today say “liberal” they usually mean “neoliberal”. Neoliberals are center-right corporate shills and Not Your Friend. People who consider themselves old-school liberals are the center-left and are capable of being radicalized
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
That's true. Some liberals are amenable. But they are not yet radical.
DavidBrooker
But neither group is radical. An actual radical left would be pushing for, say, forced seizure of property, especially factories.
Eyeetsass
Which is an absolute assault on the established money, and their toll roads.
spiderjohn36
I mean when you have right wing "Christians" calling empathy a weakness, I guess simple human kindness seems pretty radical. It's sad we live in times like these.
HummingBirrb
But I thought the bible or even religions in general told us to be empathetic and helpful and love thy neighbor
coffeeandprozac
No, you're thinking of non-Republican Christianity.
CorvidPrime
And if these red hat wearing bible thumpers could READ, maybe that would matter.
spiderjohn36
Goldmarble
That's because you misinterpret the Bible with your pathetic woke ideology! You socio-commie!
/s
OutboardOverlord
I'm radical, then. I want to tax the ever loving shit out of every billionaire and corporation. Tax them extra for pollution during production, domestic as well as abroad. Taxes can be avoided by increasing build quality and extending warranty. I want there to be a requirement that they MUST pay the workers a minimum pay and fully cover comprehensive health benefits for all employees AND their families, unless covered by taxes. Sons of bitches need to start contributing to change.
JT1984
I agree with all that except I want to set all the health insurance companies on fire and create nationalized health care. Corporations should totally be on board for that bc then they wont have to pay benefits. /s
spookyu
I think a not so unrealistic way to take a step towards this is to impose a VERY steep tax on any company in which the employees (any employee, anyone doing work for them under any contract, including part-time) qualify for any kind of subsidy (e.g. SNAP, Medicare, etc). Stop letting companies subsidize their pay/benefits through our taxes, recoup ALL of it and then some from companies which don't offer reasonable pay/benefits. You'd think that'd be an easy sell politically....but yeah.
awkungen42
Yep. This is half foot in half foot out politics. Not committing to anything and almost making it seem like you're open to being bought. I absolutely hate this type of politics. If you're not saying you're against having a literal fucking trillionaire you're part of the problem. This right here makes me lose faith that he'll actually do anything significant.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo
Tax the fuck out of them for outsourcing roles too
HummingBirrb
So...here is the deal, no enshitification, pay decent livable family sustaining wages, you get a tax break or ease, if not, then paying taxes becomes paying compensation for society
OutboardOverlord
That certainly would be a good start.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Still doesn't sound that radical to me. Radical would be taking 100% of everything they own and then putting them in front of the kind of wall where you get asked about your personal preference regarding blindfolds. That would be actually radical.
Every scenario where they get to keep their lives and more than six figures is a compromise in my book. And I'm not against compromise in principle, but with every passing day compromise seems less appropriate.
OutboardOverlord
Still, we can always go to your option if mine doesn't work for some reason. ;)
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the radical left idea is that billionaires have each committed crimes against humanity with their insatiable greed, and must be executed, their wealth and holdings seized and used to improve the lives of all those they've wronged as restitution.
I wanna run as a radical leftist so people can hear that as radical instead of "maybe people should have healthcare."
OutboardOverlord
I'd also like to add that if they pay their workers MORE than minimum pay, they can have reduced taxes provided the same percentage over minimum pay is applied to EVERY employee including the top brass. I.e the boss makes $3 000 000, and he wants a raise? Apply the same percentage raise to EVERY employee, or forget about that new yacht.
HummingBirrb
But but muh gold plated toilet 😭
OutboardOverlord
Yah /care ...
anarchoFeline
radical is the abolition of private ownership of the means of production. radical is police abolition. radical is returning land to indigenous control. radical is restorative justice instead of carceral justice.
what you are describing is classical liberalism.
wandermanspacebot
Yeah, most people do not want that radical. And for good reason.
anarchoFeline
capitalism is a death cult and as long as it is the primary ideological/economic system of the world we are doomed. regulating capitalism is like regulating cancer, it just doesn't work.
wandermanspacebot
Sure, bud. Nuance is lost on purist ideologues.
anarchoFeline
please explain what nuance I'm missing. we already tried regulating capitalism and that is what got us where we are now. you are living in a fantasy world if you think that you can just increase taxes on the capitalist class and that will solve all the problems forever. as long as access to capital is what matters in a political system then all the power will always be in the hands of the wealthy. we need radical changes to disrupt that system of capital in order to effect real change
Zyrixion
And for a bit people thought radium was a fantastic fashion trend, but then we learned better. Just because people don't understand that it is the only option for survival as a species, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.
wandermanspacebot
It's a non-starter idea because no one wants this. It's too fringe to even be taken seriously.
StrandedonEarth
The highest paid person in an organization should make no more than 10-20 times what the lowest paid employee makes, including stocks and options.
pgdave
Is it not possible for someone to provide more than 20x value over what someone else does? I'm not saying "works 20x harder", but "provides 20x value". Like - if I make an improvement to our machines that makes widgets 50x cheaper and 10x faster, and someone else is hand-making widgets slower, why would my compensation not be related to the value I'm generating?
StrandedonEarth
This circumstance could be compensated with a well-executed bonus system.
OutboardOverlord
Hear! Hear! +1
wabitgirl
At the company I work for, the lowest paid person makes $10 an hour less than the boss does, hence the reason I've stayed as long as I have.
riverpubby
That’s awesome actually
wabitgirl
We don't fuck around with economic disparity and hyperinflated administrative or managerial pay. Admins and managers make sure the instructions going into the machine are correct, but it's the workers and crew bosses who make sure the machine works right once those instructions are in. We literally do not function or exist without them.
Sechran
Education, decent pay, safety standards - socialism is what gave us everything that makes civilization worth having.
StellarJay77
Everything MAGA is mad about when they get specific are things that have been created under unregulated capitalism yet they are brainwashed to think those things are socialism. The real irony and infuriating part is that socialist policies are the way to fix all their problems they just don't like the idea that their brown neighbors will also benefit.
pm1001
Bone of that is socialism. It's social democracy. It's what Europe has for example
anarchoFeline
none of those things are socialism. socialism is a political/economic system in which the private ownership of the means of production has been abolished. those things can happen under a socialist system but they can also happen under other systems. those things even happen under capitalist systems
Kappa043
All those things are products of the progressive movement of the late 19th and early 20th century. They couldn't have less to do with socialism, which as others pointed out, is an economic system involving the abolition of private ownership of industry, which has never even slightly been implemented in a Western country- let alone the US.
Lovingimpaler
Well, the current administration has unilaterally seized portions of more than a dozen major corporations, does that count? It sounds like Chinese Communist Party stuff, but it's actually tRump.
ThatGuyFromJustSouthOfTheMiddleOfNowhere
Kappa043
Calling the GOP "fascist" is giving them far too much credit. Fascist regimes often implement welfare policies and engage in soup kitchen type activities to boost their popularity. The GOP's economic policies are just libertarianism, in the Confederate vein. If you're not a slave owner you're a slave.
gnomedeplume
Do they now
Kappa043
Yes, it's one of the reasons Stalin called social democracy "social fascism". He saw them as two sides of the same coin- propping up capitalism and preventing revolution by mollifying the masses.
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
Nah fuck capitalism. Socialism is cool af and anyone who says different is just a capital propagandized fool who needs to grow up and learn how anything works
theobstruction
Socialism is just capitalism that all the citizens feto participate in. t
2Soon4Baboon
I think capitalism must end but THIS November I'm "ride or die" for all candidates that promote Medicare for All.
I agree that we need to end capitalism but El-Sayed is real progress in that direction. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
I'd vote for him but dragging socialism through the mud is a tired strategy. It's regressive, and I'm tired of hearing abt the red scare from modern progressives. Like grow TF up socialism isn't the boogy man
2Soon4Baboon
Bruh I'm a straight up communist. You don't gotta convince me. And I agree more candidates should stand 10 toes down on socialism and they'd win. There are no red states, only incompetent democrats!
ArgentXero
China is functionally capitalist but is a transitional socialist state.
It does not matter what you label yourself if the end goal heads in the same direction.
ElorYosnak
As someone who probably is considered a pinko scum, I must say that China's system is wildly interesting. It is using a technique where it is not capitalist internally, but sorta is externally, with the combination of a clean separation of power and capital: If you get too much capital, who cares. If you get power, who cares. But if you try to use capital to influence power, we put you down.
It's quite clever, and is working very well for them
doctorId
Ideologically I agree, but at this point if we can just curb the acceleration of the corruption and exploitation by putting a leash on it, that has the potential to do a lot of material good. Trying to abolish the purely capitalist model altogether, great as that would be, isn't realistic. The capitalists have seized enough control that we're gonna have to take gains where we can get them.
Sulexar
The happiest, healthiest, free-est countries in the world are capitalist and socialist, so you should probably take your own advice.
katashimon13
that require the exploitation of other countries to keep those systems working
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Ding ding. The only reason any capitalist systems, even the Nordic models, functions well for the proletariat within a nation is because of Imperialist oppression abroad subsidizing that prosperity.
dirtcreature
And the reason for Communism failing is that there must always be and will always be classes of people. That is humanity. Thanks, I'll take my capitalism with a heavy dose of socialized resources rather than dealing with a bunch of "comrades" pretending to not stand above the other comrades.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Tell me you're ignorant of human history without explicitly telling me. Classless society is 100% possible. Read Graeber and educate yourself before spouting bullshit.
Sulexar
They did a century ago. Not now.
katashimon13
just because the us and 'isreal' does the dirty work does not mean it stopped being required
skysailor93
Still do. From exporting jobs to take advantage of people where labor laws are less strict, arming rebels, staging coups, sanctioning any country that doesn't submit to or trade deals.
Zyrixion
You may thereby realize that the index of happiness has a direct correlation with how socialist a country is and how capitalist a country is not. Follow to the logical end.
Kappa043
If that were true, China would have been a paradise under Mao. It didn't start flourishing until Deng and Hu Jintao implemented capitalist reforms.
TheoApollo
Straw man argument. I had a friend use this on me to argue being gay is immoral because if you “follow it to its logical conclusion”.
Like most things in life is a balance. In a hyper capitalist society is easy to say the pendulum needs to swing to the entire other side. But that’s usually a reactionary response.
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
lmao no
Sulexar
Except they're not trending away from capitalism, so your point is meaningless. They have regulated markets, but still capitalist.
wabitgirl
...look, I'm all for socialism and the benefits it brings, but to suggest that a full swing to socialism is the best option has been soundly refuted by: China, North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam, just to name a few examples. Centralization of social power can lead to the exact same extant horror that centralization of economic power can. Then again, I'm an anarchist, and believe in self-governance, so grain of salt as to any opinion I give on a centralized government (they all fucking suck).
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
Ya Cuba naturally failed, even though they're still kicking how many decades into US embargos? We shit on Cuba for years and you call it their failure. Heinous opinion
wabitgirl
Jesus, y'all are allergic to addressing the full scope of why these countries have gone through the civil unrest and general issues they have. YES, THE USA PLAYED A PART IN FUCKING UP THE COUNTRY. YES, THE EMBARGO HURT THINGS. YES, THE CIA INTERFERED WITH THE POLITICS. I HAVE, AT NO POINT, DEINED ANY OF THESE FUCKING CLAIMS, FOR. FUCK'S. SAKE.
This does not obviate the contributions that the government made to the issues the country has suffered in the last decades.
ChiLLeCheeze
Cuba and Vietnam were fighting against capitalism because they were colonized. To say they were socialists/communists is such an American imperialist take on history since they were the ones directly involved that caused so issues for these countries. Self governance but now they're communist/socialist when fighting back.
wabitgirl
Okay, so if they're self-governing, why do all four of the listed countries have autocratic governments that forbid political opposition? You can say my take is imperialist, but each one of these countries has followed the exact same path from socialized government control of the economy and capital to autocracy with a one party state and no challenges allowed.
Is everyone here talking about Social Democracies and calling them democratic socialism or something?
Kitehammer
The deadliest thing about socialism is that the warmongering capitalists will come kill you.
wabitgirl
If you can avoid your own government becoming corrupt and abusing the concentration of power, yeah, that's very true.
Sulexar
Almost like we're talking about socialism, not communism.
wabitgirl
And socialism taken to its extant end results in...
wowfan85
Socialism =/= Communism first off. 2nd, China is ashamedly kicking our asses in terms benefits. They have officially eradicated poverty as of 2023 and have a nearly 100% home ownership rate.
wabitgirl
You have a comical amount of faith in the Chinese government to tell the truth to the wider world.
What countries in the world are currently actively practicing socialism?