yeoldefrog
100590
3892
92
Hmm
Jul 11, 2020 9:44 AM
yeoldefrog
100590
3892
92
northsouthly
It would funny
sadurdaynight
Used to laugh at folks that "bought" a car or house, when really they were making payments. I "bought" an education, and still unemployed.
junkgoof
MAGA: Go back to corporate and income taxes that prevented CEOs from pillaging their companies.
Frostbreaker1
And that job we're asking 10yrs experience for? We'll pay like you have 2yrs and honestly you could do it with 2-3 weeks on the job training
Rakkndon
Entry level positions now requiring 1-5 years experience.
impatientazn
2020- "I furloughed you but now I can call you back at a lower rate and cut hours so take it or lose benefits."
CthuluChan
Have you tried not being poor?
rubmymanclit
My grandfather had a highschool diploma, worked at NASA, for the DOE, the DOD and owned his own construction business and had 10 kids.
DigitalBang
Not all degrees are equal. But they will charge you the same.
impatientazn
That one is kinda on the students and parents. You should know the cost/benefit before you go.
xizar
Back in the day, forestry jobs paid well, so my uncle got a degree in that. Right as he graduated, all the jobs were filled. can't win
Wesclies
The early 80's were pretty brutal for that. Those jobs still pay terribly for what they are, and they're super hard on your body.
Zeiserl
My favourite is all of the free labour people of my generation do because older people are like "computer nono" but earn a lot more than us.
Zeiserl
There's not a day my husband isn't troubleshooting the printer or giving social media crash courses or using the CMR for someone elses job.
zzpacksmasher
"At least you dont live in some shithole, like X country" meanwhile we are X country to a 3rd of the rest of the world
Babybunz
boognish115
But how am I supposed to become a billionaire from all my hard work if everyone is guaranteed healthcare? That’s not the American Dream! /s
Knifeywifey
Point of order. What degree you hold makes a difference. The economy sucks, so choose wisely. Consider job projections.
UserSubImgurian
That's why I went nursing. Bureau of labor statistics had it growing faster than average for 10 yrs when I switched. Plus Nurse Practitioner
Knifeywifey
I chose teaching English over art. I would have loved to get a straight fine arts degree and be a fine artist, but it was too impractical.
UserSubImgurian
Understandable. You can always do art on the side and when it becomes feasible/ profitable switching to your passion.
Knifeywifey
That's more or less the plan. I taught FT for a decade, am a housewife now, & hope to spend at least one year soon working on my art FT.
NotgonnaTellgoogle
Yeah. Either boomers retires after 20 years of work on full salaries or they retired too late and left after fucking all up, with 200% salar
zendogg
I think you have the wrong generation. Take a look at their parents’ generation.
NotgonnaTellgoogle
Their parents were 20 in 1930. So no. They built roads. Hospitals. Put SS. And spent on education to improve income.
whydotheycometometodie
1959s: What’s safety? 1960s: Heres a rubber apron for the radiation. 2017: employers must provide proper protective gear & insurance
daojones75
I'm happy to be a Gen X'er. We squeaked in on the tail end of the Boomer employment coattails, and missed the worst of their shit economy.
daojones75
I have nothing but sympathy for the later generations. What a shitshow you've inherited.
Ebo352
My parents didn't understand why I needed to move to D.C. to find work with my masters after 2 years of not finding a job in rural USA
Edgarallenpoboywithfries
'You just aren't trying hard enough' - every parent of previous generations.
AstroExplained
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm - You can look up the median wage and statistics for many professions.
AstroExplained
These threads inevitably fill up with people saying they, or people they know, make 100k+ with trades. It IS possible! But it's not the norm
AstroExplained
Most industry jobs there make, on average, 40-60k/yr - still a decent salary. Supervisors make more (70k+). Business owners will make more.
AstroExplained
Non-STEM college jobs seem make around the same amount, although the ones I randomly perused didn't seem as dependent on location.
Zimbesian
Don't forget this administration just gave those corporations a huge tax cut because TRICKLE down economics you know.
NotDownWitOldschool
Reagan man. Fookin Reagan.
taxirelaxi
At least in Somalia i could fulfill my childhood dream of becoming a pirate
UnluckyLunkhead
1977: Low deposit, but 17% interest. Live off cheap biscuits for 5 years, then wait 40. Sudden riches!
fredhrick
It goes both ways, interest rates on mortgages neared 18 percent by 1982.
Dilldall
Yes, but if you lived through, then the inflation insured your former high mortgage was drastically reduced in value.
fredhrick
Not sure i follow. Ensured*
Dilldall
Sorry, at least in my country the high interest coincided with massive inflation. So if you managed to stay afloat during those years. 1/2
Dilldall
Your paycheck would have increased massively, so your old loan was now comparably small, thus giving you a major boost. 2/2
KellyanneAlternativeFacts
But prices were (comparatively) super low. Now mortgage rates are crazy low, but house prices are crazy high. I don't know which is better.
fredhrick
Better to have a low principle. You can find a way to refinance in a 30 year period, whqtever you take out you have to pay back though.
koflan
Fair pay is communism!
Rakkndon
I hope you’re kidding but I can’t guarantee you are because I have family who believes this.
koflan
But ultimately... Yeah. Life is dumber than fiction.
koflan
Given the prevalence of obvious, heavy-handed sarcasm on the internet, you would think people would be more attuned to it.
Falkornn
You too? There's one in my family pounding the table demanding his subsidized health care be taken away because it's socialism.
Rakkndon
They’re all about “the competition,” and “playing the system for all you can.” They screech about it over dinner every time. “Are you still
Rakkndon
Spouting that liberal college bullshit?”
Falkornn
Do we share a family?
Falkornn
"Liberal college bullshit" is the same as reading books to them.
meredithfromtheoffice
Biophysics BS, math minor, chemistry emphasis, learning assistanceship, research, symposia, and 2 developed labs for my university
meredithfromtheoffice
5 years of management. Been trying to get a single call back since March 20th, can't get a word out of anyone. Back to bartending soon
meredithfromtheoffice
I've applied to over 100 career-type jobs
H8ling
Tried very hard to get my son to go to college. He had other ideas. He makes over 100k in the Millwrights with HS. diploma. I was wrong.
AstroExplained
That's great! But the over 100k is above the top 90% percentile: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes499044.htm (just for data)
H8ling
As I told the other guy. He isn't 9-5. He works 6 days a week, 12-15 hours a day. He works his ass off for his family through Chicago winter
Rakkndon
Unless your son is in his 50s and master level worker, I call high tiered billshit.
H8ling
Call all you'd like. He works 6 days a week, 12-15 hrs a day. Hard work pays off. Something lost on his generation.
Rakkndon
Oh go blow yourself “lost on this generation.” I know younger people who put in more effort than you could possibly imagine and still get
Rakkndon
Shafted with nothing. Companies these days don’t give a shit about employees. Entry level jobs requiring 5 years experience. And you scoff.
H8ling
Ummm. I said "his" not "this"
cattoebeans
It's worse than that. Back in the 60s, those high school graduates would get all expense paid trips to exotic locations like South Vietnam.
Kats8652
Deathwing777
Each generation has positives and negatives to it
Tykahuna85
Haha this made me snort
NoxViator
Recent generations have had multiple opportunities to travel and work abroad in several exotic middle eastern countries!
CynicalEuropean
Yeah but they had a choice. No one got drafted.
ladoys
“But they had it so easy!”
tzahtman
Many college grads got to be officers; not everyone could bone spur their way out of it.
CovidIsAirborne
Yup. And interracial marriage was illegal, homes were full of asbestos, everybody smoked, etc. The good old days were terrible in some ways.
impatientazn
Yet, none of those issues took breaking the economy to fix.
Sandyundertones
Especially if you were black
Kats8652
Don't forget about the lead filled fuel that was slowly killing everyone.
ltuthill92
Factory jobs are paying kids with and without vocation school 20 $ /hr to learn machine technician work from on site trainers
qhogan11337
Not Medtronic. 11 tops and no training. I have yet to see any company in CT willing to provide training to any degree. And 20? Really? Where
ltuthill92
Western Mass
ltuthill92
Plastics Industries to be precise. Just tell them you work on your car from time to time and you’re guaranteed all the perks too
DasMutt
1960 - world still recovering from WW2 industrial damage. US untouched, so no global competition for goods. Jobs abounded with min edu
DasMutt
2017 - industrial automation and global competition for cheap labor eviscerate US industrial jobs. US labor now service & knowledge based.
DasMutt
Service jobs can never pay what 50s/60s/70s era industrial jobs brought in. Then there's women in the workforce - equality brought more
DasMutt
competition for ever-fewer high paying jobs. Now you need education + demonstrated skills/expertise to get those types of jobs w/few excep.
xizar
How many women were getting those high-paying jobs?
DasMutt
*are. Loads. Not talking about C-Suite, but high-pay knowledge workers. Also not denying a wage gap between M and F. F in workforce today is
Basu3000
Then start picking subjects with your brain and not your heart, then you'll see your degree get you somewhere.
mikesheets
Agreed.
MemeSins
You saw where it said a Trade, right?
fbutaric
Worked as a non degree process engineer. Designed built and ran test tooling. Made more than degrees engineers. Offered to train 2
fbutaric
Engineers during my lunch hour. Nobody wanted to loose their lunch hour to learn basic machine shop. Quit offering and retired. 3
fbutaric
Now they do not have anyone with my skills. Too bad, their loss. I can get a part time job any time in the medical device industry.
oddfinrir
Doesn't help. I have two degrees, research and lab experience, plus I can program. Offered 30k; 1k less than a PhD stipend. It's stupid.
Basu3000
To clarify, I'm not trying to be mean, I picked with my heart once and it got me nowhere, only debts. But when I wizened up it worked out.
drob1227
Unpopular: my kids each have multi-degrees, no debt, great jobs. It can be done.
Laanuei
Can be, I agree. But a lot of factors have to be there. It shouldn’t be “can be” done, it should be status quo.
Draciusen
Forcing kids to play the system and plan their entire lives or risk getting completely fucked financially for years shouldn't be the norm.
NBbubblegum
But they had opportunities. Not everyone gets that. My mom has been in care homes for 20 years and my dad kicked me out at 19 after a 1/
drob1227
I was basically unemployed and divorced during my sons college career. He did it himself., owns his own farm and 3 businesses. Proud dad
NBbubblegum
Disagreement over whether or not I can be trans- while I was still recovering from a vehicular accident. I've never not been afraid of 2/
NBbubblegum
Starvation and homelessness. I've never felt safe in my adult life. Is this my fault? I've gotten a medical certification, but can't get 3/
NBbubblegum
Hired because I couldn't afford to do an unpaid internship. Is this my fault?
MrHerpertDerpington
Big corporations were built on the back of workers. Now they automate everything they can and pay minimum wage for essential jobs, while
ltuthill92
This is far from truth. I’ve been in plastic extrusion for over 5 years, operators are paid well and most had nothing other then vocation
Death83
Idk, I'm a machinist with 5 yrs experience, single income family of 3 and I can barely make ends meet.
IHateCakeDays
Loads of work been moved to Asia and are shipped to US or Europe. Working class of west will suffer until Asians are paid 15€/h, then Africa
MrHerpertDerpington
making billions of profit each year. Every company should have to pay 80% of the salary of the jobs they're reducing.
tychog99
Just like how america was built on the backs of european immigrants and african slaves yet nowadays people wanr all immigrants out and still
tychog99
Discriminate against people of colour, treating them like less than human for some horrible reaso I can't get my head around. Americans are
tychog99
Really fucking good at screwing over the people that helped them to get them where they are after completely forgetting about their help.
MCCatCommander
That's why we must seize the means of production comrade!
MrHerpertDerpington
Can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcasm or not.
erwanairone360
I think it's both, USSR was shitty, but based on a idealism dream of equality for every one : everybody gets a house, work, food, money etc.
ImperatorAurelian
Jokes aside, of every job becomes automated, the government may end up having to implement some form of Communism just to keep people fed
ZackWester
pff you think GOV will try and solve this nope 99% unemplymency whit death game been the only way for most to earn food for the day for the
ZackWester
ultra rich that sits in protected by armed guards that been brainwashed sinse birth sold by there parents for a piece of moldy bread.
ImperatorAurelian
Which, I know, not a scenario to look forward to. But an inevitable one if we keep reaching for automation.
jusumonkey
I am 100% confident that the current administration would let people die in the streets before "Submitting to Communism"
StevieTheAussie
That’s called Universal Allowance, where the government literally pays their unemployed citizens money for doing nothing, just to 1/2
captnrogersb
Automation is inevitable and will replace the labor of man. Capitalism will drive the change but has no mechanisms to support the end result
nunyabusuiness420699
Machine learning and artificial intelligence will replace human cognitive necessity, we will experience a similar loss of white collar jobs
GnomeDeGuerre
Bingo.
Tykahuna85
Coming from an automation engineer, this is an incredibly simplistic view of the future of production. Lights out automation is incredibly
Tykahuna85
Challenging to achieve for complex products, and the cost to do so does not always bear out.
Txcincy
I'm amazed you're walking around normally with that brain packed full of accurate predictions based entirely on your worldview
Notme68
There's a free billionaires who believe in UBI
ShittyMcFartPoop
Labour needs to be taxed. Automated or human regardless. Because you can’t simply kill “useless/redundant/excess” humans.
bobziIIa
That isn’t the issue. Surplus labor is systematically kept in place to artificially deflate wages in most areas. In a few, the opposite.
impalingpro
The goal is to not have to work anymore, but to work on a project if you want to. One day there will be no jobs. Get used to it.
impalingpro
Unless we bomb ourselves back into the Stone Age of course
rtysiiik1
The big 9 is a pretty good book that talks about three possible directions of automation
DeckardB26354
So true. The micro, company: we will automate save millions in labor. The macro, 100,000 companies do this and then no one to buy any stuff.
ArcaneConjecture
True, but that doesn't need to be a problem. Just use progressive tax policies to make sure the gains from technology are shared equally.
whydotheycometometodie
Who will develop, test, build, test again, deploy, test again, maintain, remove, & recycle the automation?
gotkrypto
Right, my job as an automotive technician is pretty safe for my lifetime, as long as I keep learning the new tech.
whydotheycometometodie
I specifically chose to work in technology in California, so that in fire, earthquake, or worldwide pandemic, I’m still working full time.
whydotheycometometodie
I specifically chose technology in California, so even in fire, earthquake, or worldwide pandemic, I’m still working more than full time
whydotheycometometodie
In your lifetime, a robot may take over 1 or 2 of your vehicle repair tasks. You easily transition to repairing the robot that took your job
gotkrypto
Some, certainly. With all the ADAS and other automated systems I already do a ton of electronics troubleshooting. :P
whydotheycometometodie
With all the automation that happens when a car is turned on, turned off, and driven I firmly believe we are now riding inside robots.
Mondvogel
50% of our popuwent from farming to other jobs. but here we are, claiming that this one type of job vanishing this time sitely will be the
Mondvogel
demise of civilization
ltuthill92
You guys say the working class are starving but man I know a lot of people in manufacturing right now doing great.
bigpooplog
Correct! Overseas takes to long. US co’s don’t want to keep tons of inventory so we produce it and it’s in the stores w/in days. =>
bigpooplog
I always look at our code dates in the stores and it’s hardly ever a month old. We can change things for a cust. in hours. While China can’t
bigpooplog
The other biggie is quality! The shelves would be empty too long if it had to be reordered. So yes, we are very busy and make good $
ltuthill92
I’ll also add they are traiiint anyone whose ever changed a tire to do it, w or w/o any voc schooling. It’s a rough place but I mean, 20/hr
NBbubblegum
I dunno man. I'm working class, and I'm starving. But you're likely to tell me that's my fault.
ltuthill92
I’m talking about blown film tpu and blown molding which is automated, but they still pay the same number of people to tech each line
Beetlebard
You should really be looking at the advancements overseas by fast fashion and manufacturing robotics. It's coming soon and it's gonna hurt.
MjnMixael
I work for a company who's sole purpose is to design and build conveyors and robots for manufacturing. All those things need to be built 1/2
MjnMixael
Custom for each factory. We can't automate the building of automated factories. Also, plants like car plants are replaced, ground up, 2/3
MjnMixael
At least once a year for new car models. It's easy to say robots are replacing the workers... But you still need workers to make the robots.
ImperatorAurelian
I have a theory that full scale automation may end up leading to some form of Communism. Either that, or the have-nots will be left to die.
captnrogersb
This will be the great debate of our time. May even be one of our “Great Filter” moments.
libaf
I don't know why it would lead to communism. Social democracies already have the tools to handle automations problems. Just need to >
libaf
actually employ them. I.e. tax all wealth, not just wages and fund a functional society with that.
WarmCigarette
The idea is that once we're past scarcity being a limiting factor the idea of "wealth" makes less sense 1/2
WarmCigarette
Like when anyone can go into a holodeck & live in Versailles, or eat jewels or w/e, is there a meaningful way of measuring wealth? 2/2
Zyrixion
The logical and final end of technological progress is socialism. It's objective fact, you can't get around it.
ENCHANTMEN
fully automated luxury gay space communism is coming, one way or the other
jimicus
Society is extremely good at creating non-jobs. Jobs that don't achieve anything but nevertheless pay someone's bills.
Ryanator50
I want one of those
ImaginaryMamboNumber5
And capitalism is extremely good at eliminating them in the name of profit.
WarmCigarette
That same capitalism trains workers to defend those jobs with the exact same dedication of people doing meaningful work.
WarmCigarette
Perhaps even more so, since they have to dedicate less time to actual function
WarmCigarette
Under fully automated luxury space communism nobody would have to pretend to work
ImperatorAurelian
Either way, not an attractive future.
YourLordCthulhu
Honestly, if we really do reach such a thoroughly automated state...what would be so bad about communism? I can understand having >>
YourLordCthulhu
reservations about it with the current state of things, but at that point, when human labor is largely unnecessary, it seems silly not to.
ImperatorAurelian
It's not just about labour though. Throughout our entire history, we as a species were defined by our struggle to survive, to thrive.
ImperatorAurelian
We encountered problems, we sought solutions. From this, we developed new ideas, advancements, art, culture, the very essence of being human
spetcnaz
Uhh no. Capitalism is not going to answer how we are going to live when all jobs are taken over by robots/AI. You are looking at some sort
spetcnaz
of a socialist system. It's a interesting and complicated topic. However I can tell you right now capitalism isn't solving that. I am not
spetcnaz
a commie at all. However we have to understand the limitations of the systems we have.
Argondey
This is a very succinct way to put it. Capitalism's plan for this is LITERALLY "let the working class starve"
Desertified
Nobody is starving because of capitalism. communism however...
FishHiggins
Lol
MisterLemons
Clearly you've never worked over 40 hours a week and still had to choose between utilities or sustenance. Get a clue.
Misteree8
I dare you to walk upto a homeless vietnam vet and tell him that.
tentacularfleshscape
We have quite a lot of people starving in the US, the richest country in the history of the world. Where is their capitalist pot of gold?
dieselpunk
Should doctors stop washing their hands because some mothers still die in childbirth?
tentacularfleshscape
I'm missing your intended point
Goryofa
This was also Marx's starting point: capitalism innovates & jobs are lost, but production is not. This siphons money to machine owners.
abitskeptical
Don't rage against the machine. Design machine poorly to create repair & support positions. Create simple tasks for simple men.
Goryofa
"simple men" haha. Like repairing a machine is a simple thing.
abitskeptical
The point is it's a concrete task with a clearly defined beginning and end. Manually do something and see the results immediately.
tychog99
Eventually enough will be automated that nobody has a job anymore, and that is the point where the concept of money becomes obsolete and the
tychog99
Transition to a post-scarcity civilisation will begin
morelikeconsham
Except the people who "won" under capitalism will have the most power during this crucial step and they would never relinquish it.
Mxlespxles
Haha yeah except scarcity drives profits up, so we all starve while the rich get richer.
SharkleberryFinn
Artificial scarcity is totally a thing.