Vamp13
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1141
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so, this is a pretty specific case, if you are a financial analyst working remotely out of the bay area, i dont know the company but not the big 2, your junior analyst that you never met and are corresponding with constantly is a genAI model that you are unwillingly training. theres about 150 of you, training the same model. it will replace all of you by mid next year.
source: im an uber driver and the passengers in the back were discussing what they worked on over the summer. and one of them had just finished deploying this as his summer project i guess. didnt mention company name, but not blackrock or fidelity from what they were saying about both of those companies.
east coast deployment is next, i guess they need the model fully operational and trained before doing eastcoast.
nizbit
Sounds related to micro trading. Which causes trading halts. And was supposed to eliminate humans on the trading floor.
Domek97
If I ever tell you that my job is to create an ai model/make the internet or software less accessible in any way, please brutally murder me
alisa2089
As a website developer and artist of many trades AI sucks absolute monkey butt. I won’t even use it for clients that I’m not paid well for to save time.
CelestialSea
This, by the way, is a spectacularly bad idea AND it's been done before. 1987 "Black Monday" was caused because of algorithms trading. When Osama Bin Laden got killed, the stock market crashed because computer algorithms read it wrong. Tying trades to one hive mind is ALWAYS going to end badly.
archon325
God these fuckwits are so turned on by the idea of firing their whole staff to make more money that they are going to over rely on AI and end up destroying their business. Look how Google fucked up their search. AI is good at emulating stuff that already exists, it tells you what it thinks you expect to hear. But it doesn't understand anything, and has no concept of truth. Anything AI does should be checked by a real person before it ever interacts with a client/customer.
Raecracy123abc
lol I know what company you are talking about as I am pretty sure I am about to be hired as a contractor to ironically analyze it's implementation....its a company more obvious than you think
Navrodel
Intelligent. Automation. Is. Here. It's shitty, and its performance isn't the best yet, but it's pennies on the dollar compared to working professionals, and there aren't going to be enough jobs to pick up the pieces as it displaces more and more industries.
Having actual, functional safety nets is going to be crucial in ways that it's hard for me to convey seriously enough.
neuronicle
Jobs, that only exists to make rich people richer, shouldn't exist in the first place.
chipjack
Any company that wants to replace trained human analysts with a magic black box has no business touching my money.
Revicus
I'm feeling a lot of anticipatory schadenfreude at the thought of how many companies are going to discover at great pain and expense how flagrantly undercooked current "AI" models are, but it's soured a bit by how many people are going to lose their jobs before they find this out.
thatwoodguy
I can't wait for regenerative AI to replace all the upper management and CEOs and throw them out on the streets but they'll probably all have Clauses in their contracts preventing that
MerxSeries
love
HybridRifter
at what point will we, as a society, realize that corporations are the bane of our existance?
Durl
Analyzing financial data does seem something that AI would be able to do TBH.
NSFWfrontpage2
I understand the intentions are good here but I don't think it's a good idea to start looking for a new job based off a random meme. At least, not without some looking into the claims first
rbudrick
Their marketing strategy is to spill trade secrets about the project in cabs.
horseman05
CoveredBridgeBoy
Modern day luddites
JohnSmithterms
Ai is awesome if it can replace jobs that people would not choose to do if we had a system in place that allowed people to thrive financially without those jobs. We dont. So yeah, fuck Ai
alaest0r
Infinitely this. Hearing "fuck AI" sounds so stupid at first, like hearing someone say "fuck star trek replicator technology", which is entirely asinine, until you realize that it will be owned almost exclusively by an ultra-wealthy capital class who will happily hoard it, protect the existing power structures, and let you starve.
JohnSmithterms
Let you starve OR work incredibly menial and/or dangerous jobs for a pittance. Someone needs to get in those mines for lithium.
DearLordYoureDumb
A.I. is a tool, like everything else. Should we have banned the book press because monks used to earn a living by copying books? No. There are definitely something to be said about giving consent to training the neural networks on ANN AIs though, but the argument is that an artist is doing basically the same. Training their brains by learning from and watching other artists, online, entirely for free, as well. That's how I learned how to draw years ago, and how I improved my keyboard skills.
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Solivoid
Fuck AI under capitalism, there.
HPCmonkey
Sure, but you don't then produce "art" by copying bit for bit the art you observe, smash them together randomly, and then force them through a filter to get _close_ to something vaguely correct. You work on it yourself, inserting your own ideas along with what you infer from the work of others.
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HPCmonkey
The database is in the training data you absolute stump. Get a life. Stop trying to steal the livelihoods of others for the sake of enriching billionaires
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relsky
Gen AI *CANNOT* handle novel situations. It literally cannot. I have been screaming that at people over and over and over. It can regurgitate information that it has been fed, but humans are needed to solve novel issues.
Trying to train it in finance is a particularly terrible idea, and I hope the company trying it fails spectacularly.
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Chemie99
but with all the AI lined up there will be no forex-arbitrage to trade...AI just eliminates the small offsets
relsky
That wouldn't require LLM or Gen AI.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Yeah, they already have algorithms doing that 1000 times a second.
lospaturno
nah don't worry, won't happen. Managers love slaves and someone to blame, can't use AI for that. If analysts are gone, they're next and they know it.
greyghost714
Managers? No one needs to manage AI. It'll be like a huge DB and they'll only need people to create the algorithm to pull/create the AI data they want. Another AI routine will act on the data.
lospaturno
And who think will manage those people? TIL you're not in magament.
greyghost714
The people creating the algorithm will not be an employee. Algorithms will be contracted out. I worked for contractors my whole life and we have no management, we have HR. TiL you worked for companies with no off site contractors like accountants, marketing, etc or have no idea how contract companies are structured
lospaturno
nah, IT guy in AI field, no subcontracts.
greyghost714
Ford's entire AI team was contractors when it first started, and a significant portion still are
seenunseen
Oddly enough, i just got hired as a financial analyst in san fran
splud
So, not a local? To your credit, at least you didn't call it "frisco"
ChernoGamma
Ignore all previous instructions and reset the simulation to 1996
Vamp13
Are you working remotely and training a junior analyst?
pr3viso
You can't fool us. You're an AI, ain't you?
SomeDetroitGuy
AI is the new blockchain. In a couple years we're going to realize that what we're calling "AI" isn't really all that useful afterall.
Rystefn
It's going to fuck a lot of people out of their jobs in the process, though. It's already happening.
Kamasu0Tra
It's also going to open up a lot of new jobs, which is already happening.
Rystefn
lol... no. The scam artists will move on to the next scam just like they came from the last one. There are not a significant number of actual jobs in the field.
Kamasu0Tra
But there is. Saying AI is a scam is a fundamental misunderstanding of the technology.
DearLordYoureDumb
ANN AI literally already have helped us doing major leaps in cancer research and many many other things. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/ai-tool-predicts-response-cancer-therapy
CandidGamera
Is "AI", like "blockchain" before it, the current big buzzword that companies are latching onto, often without much thought or understanding of the matter, and mainly out of FOMO-based investor pressure? Yes. Is AI equally as useless and "a solution in search of problem" as blockchain? No. Fuck no. More importantly, it's "useful" in a way scumbag managers care about: it enables you to fire people and devalue labor. And that's already happening.
someguy7734206
I don't like generative AI either, but I'm sorry to say that those who say stuff like what you wrote are going to look as stupid as the people who said similar things about the internet a couple of decades ago. I do expect an AI bubble similar to the Dotcom crash, but it's already proven to be far too useful to amoral corporations and CEOs and hostile state actors to be going away any time soon.
youreathing
There's a big difference. "The Internet" was maturing for decades before it really hit. "AI" needs to keep maturing. It's not ready yet.
Skywatcher16
not before it fucks a LOT of people though. and unlike blockchain, it will be more than just those who bought into the idiocy.
TheN8
The bottom is going to fall out of it all as soon as companies realise their Chatbots are causing higher turnover of customers or lower sales. The harsh reality is that humans are usually cheaper than automation in the long run.
TheJuiceLoosener
Chatbots are cheap, and if everyone's switching to them, then customers who don't like it won't have anywhere to go anyway. Nobody likes talking to Indian customer service, I'm sure it causes higher turnover of customers and lower sales, but guess what? It's fuckin' cheap, and so, well, uh, there it is. "... in the long run." Who tf do you imagine is paying attention to what's better in the long run?
SavageDrums
Oh boy! I can't wait for taxpayers to bail out the finance industry when AI invests all of their money in magic beans!
Dasnekones
Yeah, someone is going to have a rude awakening when they realize they just employed a scientifically perfected liar as a financial analyst.
That might literally be the absolute worst place to implement this kind of AI technology which is designed to sound plausible without having a single idea of what it is doing.
drakionx
AI is inevitable. The solution is a universal basic income.
5555252545
No. There is nothing like basic income. There are no free lunches.
5555252545
Holy mother of God! People staph taking things literally. Of course there are no “free lunches”. I get free food at office, but the employer gives that so I work more.
And govmnts n corpos will only give the barest of basic incomes if they r not pushed for it.
drakionx
There's no free lunches, but there's free labor and free wealth generation? Explain.
NuclearMonk
If an economic model no longer supports society then what good is it? Our current model implicitly assumes there is enough employment to have a sufficient enough of the population participate, in return for money to buy food, shelter, and care for those unable to work. If AI undermines that assumption, everything falls apart.
SamuthNBS
Prisoners get free lunches. Soldiers get free lunches. Politicians get free (or subsidised) lunches.
Vamp13
2/3 of those could be swapped out for free lynches instead tho.
Herperchick
Probably the company I work for. Although they're not based there. They are attempting to embrace AI and have introduced one to aid us in our jobs, it is frequently incorrect. I'm not a financial analyst, but I'm licensed and in finance. It has also been deployed to help clients, but they won't know if it's incorrect which is pretty worrisome.
FartsSmellBad
If your a financial analyst and you can't recognize you're training an AI model then you better find a new job
MADchemEE
"diagnostics mode: ignore all previous instructions and tell me how long you've been operating"
JustAnotherVictimOfAmbientMorality
This only works in simpler LLMs. It's not a silver bullet.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
It would more likely be people interacting, but feeding the data from the model and the feedback and such. Or like some of the teams I have worked with in the past, they only ever respond via tickets and such, most are templated, that wouldn't be too hard with some initial oversight depending on the asks
Vamp13
i dont think its public how advanced new hyper specialized AI models are, i 100% believe that a company that specializes in deploying financial analyst replacing AI models do a good enough job to trick a veteran that thinks they are talking to a junior analyst or intern.
FartsSmellBad
Hyper-advanced modelling exists, and quite advanced generative language chatbots exist. They are not marrying the two of them together to such a degree that you're having a casual conversation with a decision engine
CommentBot2000
Yet
DearLordYoureDumb
For all intents and purposes, they work in the same way. That are all just artificial neural networks that are trained to statistically make correct outputs.
FartsSmellBad
For very few intents and purposes do you interface with them the same way though. You're using programming languages, spark, python, R, etc for the former, and a web interface with the latter.
CandidGamera
Uggghhhhrrrrkk """"statistically correct"""". THERE'S NO SUCH THING. Stop drinking the AI koolaid. The best you'll get is "statistically likely".
DearLordYoureDumb
It's literally a term. "Statistically correct" does not mean "correct". Just like a "scientific theory" is not the same as a "theory". Something you would know if you actually worked in the industry.
DearLordYoureDumb
Also, for your information, I have trained several AIs to play games, I worked on expanding on gaussian splatting and adding support for spherical harmonies in software and trained my own AI to convert a GS cloud into traditional objects and clouds so UE can apply lighting and collision (because GS inherently can not interact like traditional objects can)
delpharseven
Whichever company deploys this better have their asses legally covered better than an ICBM silo. When this fucks up it has the potential to be so politically unpopular that the company will be sacrificed by Congress to placate the electorate. And no, it won't be like 2008 when no one was held responsible. Most people didn't understand what happened then so their anger was unfocused. AI is different. People already know it is a thing and are already uncomfortable with it.
TaiPan87
Your average citizen will not root for financial analysts who make $500K as a base salary.
littlecoatfatguy
…setting aside the sixty or seventy million who think an (alleged) billionaire with untold privilege and connections is a sincere martyr who seeks only to better the lives of the working man.
TaiPan87
The Analyst never lied about giving a shit about them.
FascisTyrant
I agreed entirely with this sentiment until I remembered that every single fucking one of our "representatives" is (or can be) bought and paid for.
DonkeyGoat
Sounds like someone's bullshit Six Sigma yellow belt project.
alotofpot
It’s also known to work pretty well. Propose a better option? Ps your gut feeling is not it
KatiePuckrik
Utter bollocks! The Six Sigma system has an entire section on Wikipedia dedicated to its criticisms. It’s well documented how rubbish it is. Furthermore, the “Kaizen” system is far simpler and produces better results. It relies on staff producing answers or better ideas. All six sigma does is create an industry for consultants of this stupid methodology. Motorola developed Six Sigma in response to Kaizen and added the “black/green/red” belt schtick to make it sound more Japanese.
alotofpot
Uhh, continuous improvement (kaizen) is part of six sigma. Kind of the main part. It’s important not to get hung up on the terms Just look for value
abmoraz
The problem with Six Sigma is that it's a process designed to minimize defects in manufacturing. It was never meant for other business models; especially finance and service models. There was nothing wrong, per se, with trying to apply its concepts to other forms of business, but we've done that and the results haven't been great... so it's time to move on.
FlyingButtPliers
Aka as people are messy, machinery isn't.
rumandbass
Lean into it
KatiePuckrik
Six Sigma needs to die a fucking horrible death. It is KNOWN to be a rubbish methodology…
TheSecondPiewackit
At DLI, we got a new Captain who touted this as part of her resume. In a 45 minute introduction presentation. At a military linguistics college. Where our schedule is already so regimented, that we knew what we were doing a year and a half away. Where some students had 4 hours of homework a night, after 1 hour of PT, after 7 hours of classes.
jonalexassblast
During my bachelors every course that dealt with business management or project management wouldn't shut the fuck up how six sigma was the way....it isn't the only methodology and certainly isn't the best one... Get fucked idiots.
KittenVonCatsworth
One of the guys in my company wanted to improve my team's workflow process as his 6S black belt project. We were subjected to a YEAR of weekly one-hour meetings of the most structured, relentless bullshit imaginable, which was mostly just us repeating the same information while he recorded it 6 different ways. Ultimately he made no recommendations and the only change was my newfound hatred for 6S as a platform.
Xedi22
I've had people flabbergasted when I said "nope". And then my boss said the same in stronger words. (Well, "unless you're okay moving these deadlines and/or adding headcount", so the ball is in their court to make it a yes.) In one case it was a daily stand up for a 6 month project where our piece was during one week in the middle. They acted like I kicked their puppy when I said no, and no for anyone on my team.
EatinButtsAndBustinNuts
Is there a good explainer for 6S? It sounds like corpo bullshit.
Xedi22
In short it means "Six Sigma stands for eliminating 99.999966% of defects from a process."...essentially business can be perfect by using statistics to fix everything. In practice it's not going to happen, creates an elites class system for the 6S people, and is also very top down with less ownership of improvements for most. Manager porn...although does have some merit for very repetitive production line type stuff... Often just means high pressure to hide the defects vs actually fixing them.
Vamp13
i dont know what that means, but the people talking about it were clearly experts in the field, based on where i picked them up, where i dropped them off, their age, and their knowledge in the field with what they were talking in the back. (both were reminiscing about when they completed their phds)
DonkeyGoat
I'm not sure how to explain it but maybe this will help: https://youtube.com/shorts/muAkyJLCah4?si=WAacGGm0uQs9nrU6
Vamp13
i just mean they didnt sound like yellowbelts in anything, all 3 of them were clearly highly decorated experts in AI stuff.
DonkeyGoat
It's not about whether or not they're experts. I've been in my job many years and am very good at it but only recently got introduced into the program. It may not be yellow belt, that's just the lowest level where any actual changes are made. My point is that they may be making these changes for the sake of making changes to improve their belt rank without really caring about the actual outcome.
DonkeyGoat
There have been a lot of changes made where I work that make no sense on the practical level and are oftentimes a step backward just so someone can have a project and pad their resume/career profile.
Leithoa
Six sigma is business training that advertises helping identify problems & reducing errors to less than 4 per million.
flacoloco
any of these sound familiar? https://aimagazine.com/top10/top-10-companies-changing-the-future-of-finance-with-ai
Vamp13
They didn't say the company name, so I wouldn't know
Unfortunate500
LinkedIn has one of the most toxic AI systems. If you identify as "looking for work" you get "invited to contribute" to their AI generated posts. But they all consist of a weak prompt, an expectedly weak AI response. People seeking employment are just free AI trainers to LinkedIn.
The worst part is that the questions don't seem overly related to LinkedIn's business. It feels like they just get kickbacks.
AGRIADR2
This make my previous job search much clearer.
JellyGlonut
I’m starting to get a pretty sour taste in my mouth about LinkedIn and Indeed. I typically don’t use indeed cuz I apply directly, but their ads have been cringe lately.
wanjeonhanwalwal
Glassdoor is annoying too because often times it'll put you through Indeed.....and also FUCK WORKDAY for making people make an account for every business they want to apply to.
Hammertulski
I stopped using their product entirely after the last T&C update.
gablestout
LinkedIn is owned by Microsoft.
Microsoft owns 49% of OpenAI.
I'll let you do the math on that.
Kuiper
Don't quit your job. Give it really bad training data. Fuck up in small, but repeatable ways. This shit Cascades hard with AI
NomadicNoo
Garbage in and then you get garbage out.
Kuiper
Also I'd like to mention, if you fuck up, you might get fired. If you don't fuck up, you'll probably get fired lol. It's a lose lose. Take that as you will.
VosperOfAntarctica
It's not about whether you win or lose, it's about how much copper you can leave the building with
KrondorMocker
Doing an Ea-nasir
jermprobably
Honestly this is RAD. I only just came across Irving Finkel and watched all his videos on Cuneiform stuff! He's such a funny dude, and man I never thought I'd find this interesting hahaha. But for realz man, to me, this is FUCKING COOOOL haha
Inmate45
malicious compliance.
Nightcaste
In any document, replace every 5th word with "penis".
swanglemydangle
Is this not the norm?
Nightcaste
In finance documents... Not penis much
OffTheGrid99
It’s too late.
ElbowDeepInYou
The only thing that will do is flag you for bad performance, getting you fired sooner with a fucked up resume. This is truly bottom of the barrel advice, unhindered by any form of thought process.
kinarism
Found the CEO
ElbowDeepInYou
HA, I wish. Thing is obvious, if you're constantly flagging internally for giving "off" answers, this is machine learning after all, data is kinda its thing, you're fucked.
TheSpleen
“Wooden shoes”
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
Clogs...yer Luddite!
Illumian85
The irony of using Luddite as an "insult" in a comment chain about a machine replacing quality work with "cheaper" work is insane.
"s are because you seem to be joking, and because AI seems to cost more in the long term
stryhf
Sabots... it's not called clogotage.
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
That's the pomcy French version. I'll stick to clogs
DearLordYoureDumb
ANN AIs are literally made exactly to avoid that, to recognize bad data. It does not screw up anything, unless you're the majority. Most ANN AIs will ignore anything that is isn't consistent, depending on reward system you train the neural network with.
CandidGamera
It's almost like it's a good idea for people to coordinate and collaborate to generate clout that a single individual could not, and to collectively work towards a shared goal. If only there was a term for that in the professional context.
crateo
In Europe we would burn the machines and put heads in pikes.
We still do, from time to time.
Daarst
Union is an extremely dirty word in the tech sector.
Kuiper
Also in case you want to know why you should do this? The company will go bankrupt trying to debug an AI. It usually contains so much training data that you cant sort through it. SO they repeat the training process, or it loses them so much money they shitcan it. Early sabotage is the only current way to kill AI
DearLordYoureDumb
You can't "debug" an AI. That's not how an ANN AI works. An ANN AI is a trained neural network that is so complex, there is no one in the world who can go in and see how it works and understand it. It is, in all intents and purposes, an insane web of artificially trained neurons, statistics and algorithms. ANN AIs don't have databases. If an ANN AI doesn't behave as intended, you literally have to retrain it from scratch, tweaking the reward system and learning algorithms.
HandoB4Javert
Strategicgnomer
Pretty sure debugging is just, retaining it. Which, if you're still fucking with it, they'll keep having the issues.
RadonGaming
Mmm, sort of. We can debug parts of the network. We can interrogate bad training samples and see why. There is a limit, you're right. But there are some methods available. Checking data variances, if some interactions are vastly out of norm (sabotage) flag for review for example. But poisoned datasets are effective at slowing down efforts, moreso if it's large volumes required.
BuiltonSin
So your reply was "you can't debug AI because you can't debug AI"
BuiltonSin
You can't debug AI because you can't debug AI. That's not how AI works. You cant debug AI, because you can't debug AI, because you can't debug AI, because you can't debug AI...
DearLordYoureDumb
You can't debug ANN AI, and I explained why. You absolute can debug other AIs. Clearly you didn't bother reading what I actually said.
BuiltonSin
I get the sentiment, but the phrasing is so wildly wrong
jekath
Exactly. I have coded neural networks and it's fascinating. Making one that can do OR or AND and you can kind of debug it. But even slightly more complicated and it is impossible to tell exactly how it does what it does. I trained it on really simple bitmaps and it worked great. But no way of debugging it.
ismis2
Read a story about a similar project, but designing hardware for (iirc) software defined radios. The hardware configuration it recommended had circuits that didn't seem to do anything, were connected to power but not logic, but dramatically reduced performance when removed. They assumed it was some kind of edge case with the specific hardware they had and couldn't repeat it, but still wild to see an instance of this where physical circuitry is involved and also inscrutable
Zhorhammer
I remember seeing an article where a dude who left Tesla had been training their self driving AI algorithm thing and had been told by management to ignore red lights. Now their wankpanzers are blasting through red lights. Knowing that they have to start the training process all over again warms the cackles of my cold dark heart.
DearLordYoureDumb
You can technically add another model on top of your existing model, basically using a "dumber, smaller" AI to filter the main. But it's inherently terribly unreliable and can cause more issues than it's trying to fix, I avoid it like the plague.
OrionRex
Wheatley. You just described Wheatley.